Meds Can Be a Lifesaver: It's Time to End the Medication Stigma

Show Notes: 

• I speak with Sarah Michelle Sherman about her journey to a diagnosis of ADHD and Bipolar disorder and the impact of medication on her life.
• Getting the right diagnosis is all about having a provider who spends the time listening to you in order to get a full picture of your mental health—the correct diagnosis means the correct medication, which can make a world of difference. 
• Neurodivergence has a lot of Venn diagram overlap AND comorbidity with other conditions like anxiety and mood disorders—it can be difficult to separate out symptoms and accurately attribute them when you are dealing with multiple diagnoses.
• Getting the right meds for you can be life-changing—AND life saving. Sarah shares the powerful truth that she would not be here without medication. 
• The shame around taking medication needs to end. No one shames people for taking diabetes or blood pressure meds—mental health deserves the same respect. Stigma is harmful and keeps people from getting the help they need.
• With all the extra self-care, therapy, and yes, sometimes medication, comes a gift: the ability to feel deeply. The lows can be tough, but the joy and love are just as real—and that’s a superpower.
• Medication isn’t about changing who you are or making anyone “compliant.” It’s about helping people (and kids) manage their busy minds so they can be themselves, not about forcing anyone to fit a mold.
• The importance of treatment in order to be a good *enough* (not perfect!) mother. We discuss how challenging motherhood can be on our mental health or neurodivergent brains, and how much pressure there is to stay present and "get it right."

Sarah Michelle Sherman is a writer living in Albany, New York. Her work has appeared in HuffPost, Today, Parents, and other outlets. She’s currently working on a collection of personal essays exploring depression, motherhood, the end of her marriage, and the search to find herself through it all. With unflinching vulnerability, Sarah strives to challenge the mental health stigma and inspire others to have more honest conversations about the tangled complexities of being alive. A passionate believer in the power of storytelling to foster empathy, connection, and a sense of belonging, she writes with the hope of reaching those who need to feel seen and understood. For the ones who are lonely, lost, or fearlessly chasing a life others have told you doesn’t exist—Sarah writes for you.

Follow Steph on Substack at The Reclamation Era and on IG @stephsprenger

Transcript

0:07

Midlife. A DHD can be scary, but it doesn't have to be. Here on paranormal, we are demystifying neurodivergence and perimenopause plus. With candid conversations and advice from experts, join me for a no holds barred exploration of what it means to be neurodivergent at midlife. Let's redefine normal together. I'm Steph Springer, and this is Paranormal Welcome back to the Paranormal Podcast. Today I'm talking with Sarah Michelle Sherman. About the importance of getting a correct diagnosis. The value of having a practitioner who actually listens to you, sees and understands you. And the power of finding the right medications for you and your brain chemistry today, we are having a much needed discussion about the stigma that still surrounds taking medications, especially taking medications from mental health conditions, or a DHD. Sarah's experience is powerful and demonstrates that meds really can be lifesaving at times, and it is time for us to move beyond the shame that we experience when we take medications for our mental health or our neurodivergence. Sarah Michelle Sherman is a writer living in Albany, New York. Her work has appeared in HuffPost Today, parents and other outlets. She's currently working on a collection of personal essays, exploring depression, motherhood, the end of her marriage, and the search to find herself through it all. With unflinching vulnerability, Sarah strives to challenge the mental health stigma and inspire others to have more honest conversations about the tangled complexities of being alive. A passionate believer in the power of storytelling to foster empathy, connection, and a sense of belonging. She writes with the hope of reaching those who need to feel seen and understood. For the ones who are lonely. Lost or fearlessly chasing a life others have told you doesn't exist. Sarah writes for them. Welcome to the podcast, Sarah Michelle Sherman.

Steph: 2:19

So. Some of you know, my A DHD diagnosis didn't happen until I was 45 years old, so almost two years ago. So I spent the majority of my life not knowing, quote, what was wrong with me, right? And so Sarah is gonna share her journey about diagnosis, what it looked like for her when it happened, and we're really gonna explore. The tricky overlap of symptoms between different diagnoses and where does this end and something else begin? Is this even what we're dealing with? How do I know it's this and not that? And then sort of the alternating shame and freedom and relief that happens when you're navigating a diagnosis. So welcome.

Sarah: 2:59

Thank you so much. So excited to be here.

Steph: 3:01

Yeah. I'm so glad you're here. So what I, I'd love to just start with your diagnosis story. Tell us how old you were when it happened, but also why, why at that moment did you finally get a diagnosis?

Sarah: 3:15

Yes. Yep. So I was in grad school, I was around 25 years old. Um, had been being treated up until that point with depression. So I was on a lot of different SSRIs, did a lot of trial and error. There was still not feeling. Good. Uh, I was still having a lot of real extreme lows, um, and then feelings of what would eventually later be described to me as hypomania. Mm-hmm. I was having a ton of trouble getting through school at the time I was. Struggling a lot with the readings and just being able to sit still. Um, once I even could get myself to start something, there was, um, you know, and then that spirals into shame. You know, should I even be in grad school? Can I do this? Which then leads, you know, to the depression and it's all intertwined. Uh, but eventually a therapist that I was seeing at the time. Was like, you, we, you need to look into your meds. Like what you're on is not working. You need someone else to evaluate you. Um, so she recommended a psychiatric nurse practitioner who was the first person in, I mean, at this point it had been almost 10 years of being on medication. She was the first woman to really sit down with me and was so thorough, went over. My whole life sat with me for two hours during the intake. Really, you know, I felt like, got an understanding of me and she was the one who diagnosed me with bipolar and A DHD and switched my meds and it changed my life.

Steph: 5:08

Let's, let's pause on that fact that you had a meeting with a nurse, a psychiatric nurse practitioner that's who also diagnosed me. My psych NP is amazing and does meds for me and my daughters, but that the fact that you had this, this moment, this two hour time period where someone finally. Listened to you thoroughly and saw you and I, I was much older and I mostly felt relief and gratitude about being diagnosed, but I also was like, why the fuck did nobody catch this? Like, exactly, not one doctor, not one therapist. Nobody ever said to me, I think you might have a DHD. And I was so. Pissed about that. I even had therapist number four after we'd been working together for a while, said, you know, you know, the first time I met you I thought maybe you were hypomanic. And I'm like, cool. But I wasn't actually, that is my a DH adhd. So let's just acknowledge how powerful it is when you finally, after having struggled for years and years and not getting meds right, or not getting you right, to have someone who sees you that that must have been profound.

Sarah: 6:14

It truly was. And at that point, you know, I was really discouraged. You know, I had tried a dozen different medications at that point it was and was still struggling so badly. Um, and. You know, it was leading to suicidal thoughts. Sure. And I just was really, you know, it was the worst point in my life up until I met with her. Um, and it completely turned things around. But yeah, as you know, to your point, the frustration that comes along with that, um, even when I was first. You know, started taking, I think Prozac was the first thing, but it was prescribed by my pediatrician. Right. You know, and now, you know, looking back on that and now being a mom, um, it even that angers me to a certain degree. You know, like, why wasn't I evaluated by

Steph: 7:11

Right.

Sarah: 7:11

A psychiatrist, you know? So I think finally. Finding someone who takes the time is just, it's game changing.

Steph: 7:19

I think it is. Especially when you know that you might be dealing with something that is not garden variety. Especially when it's not just just entry level depression or if you have, if you have symptoms, you can't separate out, like I was diagnosed with anxiety. So much sooner than a DHD. And it's one of those things, do I have both A DHD and anxiety? Probably. But there were a number of my anxiety symptoms that were, are probably related to the fact that I have a DHD. So are we talking Venn diagram or are we talking? I mean, it's just really difficult and I agree that when you're dealing with something like this. You need a real thorough evaluation. And, um, the psych NP was amazing for me, but when my, my daughter was still, I think she was 12, we did the full psychological panel. Like we had a, a psychologist evaluate her. And I just think it's such an important thing to get the full picture. And so you walked away with two different diagnoses and you said it changed your life. So tell us what happened next. Was it a med change?

Sarah: 8:21

Yes. So I went from only experimenting with SSRIs for, I think it was about 10 years. And then, uh, she put me on a mood stabilizer and anti-psychotic and a stimulant. Mm-hmm. Um, and obviously we, you know, worked our way up to the appropriate doses and things like that, but I mean. I immediately noticed a difference, right? I started feeling like I could just keep things on track and manage things, and I wasn't ripping myself apart. I, you know, I had, it was like the, the mean voice inside me started to get quieter, you know, and even that. Was able, you know, with that I was able to move forward and not to say that things all of a sudden became easy and I was happy all the time. Um, but it at least gave me a sense of control. And I knew that, you know, I had felt like for so long I'd been putting in the work but didn't understand why I wasn't feeling better. Right. Um, so I finally found like, okay, now we're. Getting somewhere.

Steph: 9:44

Yeah. Now, now we're getting somewhere. Is the, I think it's just really difficult to describe the tremendous relief when you feel like puzzle pieces have clicked into place and now we're getting somewhere. Did you start all three of the meds at the same time, or did you layer them one at a time to start? Do you remember?

Sarah: 10:04

Um, I believe it was all at the same time. Mm-hmm. Um. I know I had to, you know, taper off what I was on, which is always a horrible Yeah, it is process. It's brutal. But, so yeah, tapered off that I think the. I know the antipsychotic was a real slow build.

Steph: 10:27

Mm-hmm.

Sarah: 10:28

Um, but the mood stabilizer was like a strong dose right off the bat. Mm-hmm. Um, the stimulant started off pretty low, but. That quickly went up, um, because I was like, I notice a difference. I feel a lot better. But then it,

Steph: 10:44

and then you kind of get out

Sarah: 10:45

and then I'm back to where I was, you know?

Steph: 10:47

Yep. Yeah. And I, the, the, the stimulants, that's the thing that I think, so I'm, I'm not, I am not a doctor or a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but sometimes I wish that it was just like, here's a little experiment. Take a stimulant and see what happens. Do you feel like you're climbing out of your skin, or is the snow globe that is your brain? Not shaken and instead settled. Yes. And and that to me is like, and I was so worried, like, I mean, I remember in college I'd be like, everyone's gonna smoke this joint and I'm gonna be the only one who doesn't get high. You know, like that. Like, this isn't gonna work for me. I'm an anomaly. Nothing. Right. But I was like. Oh my God. What if I take this? I think the first one that I tried was Ritalin. Like, what if I take this same and I feel like I'm on crack? Which I don't know what that feels like. And now I'm like, maybe if I'd done coke in in college, I would've realized I had a DHD.'cause maybe it would've chilled me out. I don't know. But it was that, it's almost instant. And I know that a ADHD meds don't work for everyone. And so I know that isn't just like the panacea as far as. Like, just take this and see what happens. I know it's not that simple. Like there are some people that have a DHD that don't respond to meds. Right. But it was such a gift when I took Ritalin and I was like, oh my God, it just got quieter in there.

Sarah: 12:03

Yes.

Steph: 12:04

And I, it's so difficult. To, to explain what a gift it is. And I have like this, I'll stand on my soapbox for a minute. Like, look, I get pissed when people talk about us, medicating away all these issues. And it's like, well, clearly you haven't had some condition in need of chemical regulation. If you think that it's just that simple of good or bad. And I know people are like, I'm not giving my child a med and I'm not giving my hyperactive kids something to make him calm. And I'm like, it that is not. It. When I medicated my tween and teenage daughters, it did not change their personalities. It didn't make them little compliant. Stepford daughters, they weren't held hostage by their busy spinning thoughts. Same as me. And that's the thing that I get mad about. People don't understand. This isn't about making a kid sit in their seat by giving them a pill to put them in line. This is like, do you know what it's like to never be able to stop your brain? You know? Right.

Sarah: 13:05

Yeah. And yeah, I also get real pissed off, because I for one, I've been told like, oh, specifically with the stimulant, you know, you're just like getting high, you know, and it's such

Steph: 13:17

bullshit,

Sarah: 13:18

and it's like, it's absolutely ridiculous. And also just even the. The stigma surrounding having to take meds to be able to function. I'm like, well, clearly you never, struggled to get outta bed or to get your work done when you know you're capable of doing the work, you know, and Right. Um, and yeah, I feel like it makes me the best version of myself and if there's something chemically wrong that's. Telling me I can't do things and preventing me, you know, from doing things like why is it a bad thing if there's something I can take that helps me put all that, that quiets all that, and you know. Makes it less cloudy

Steph: 13:58

Absolutely. And do we, do we shame people who need to take diabetes medications? Exactly. Or like blood pressure or, right. It's, it's just, it's laughable and it needs to stop. It does.'cause it is stigmatizing and it makes people think that you're not strong enough to mind over matter this, that you didn't eat enough green vegetables and you didn't go to the gym often enough and maybe you aren't taking the right supplements. Mm-hmm. Like it is such. It is such a privileged thing to say. It is incredibly ableist and it's tone deaf and it's harmful, and it means that people aren't getting the help that they need. And listen, I'm like a lifelong therapy goer, so I'm not just saying that every DI ingest my pharmaceutical regimen and then I just say, fuck everything else, right? Like I'm doing the. I'm going to therapy. I'm journaling. I'm meditating. Mm-hmm. I'm doing the things I need to do to stay healthy. So I'm not just saying, throw some pills at the problem, but if you don't know what you're talking about, we don't actually wanna hear your opinions on whether or not we should be taking meds for a DH, ADHD or anything.

Sarah: 14:56

Exactly. You know? Yeah. So, yeah, I totally agree. Next person who tells me I just need to drink more water and I wouldn't need any meds.

Steph: 15:05

Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I zipping my lips here. I've got some, I'd like to write a book of comebacks to say to people who say just absolutely asinine, things like that, so. So tell us what's happened since then. Did you and your psych nurse practitioner get it right the first time? I mean, I know you said there was some leveling up and has it been like again. I, it's a ridiculous question to ask, like, has it been smooth sailing since then? Because I know that's not the case. Yeah. But, um, tell us what happened next.

Sarah: 15:36

So I was really good for a while, and was slowly increasing things and feeling better and better, and then kind of leveled out for a while. It was few years since I had a real, bad, Episode, you know, which was for me mostly just real bad bout of depression. And then I think we. Adjusted the meds. I struggled a bit to get kind of back to where I was and we started trying other meds, which just made things worse.

Steph: 16:10

Okay.

Sarah: 16:10

Um, and it became clear to me, like I tried to get off the anti-psychotic thought that was like making me, too lethargic and, you know, just like di playing around with different ideas. Trying different meds, it was going horribly. Then I made the decision to try and stop my meds to get a clearer picture of where I was at.

Steph: 16:33

How did that

Sarah: 16:34

go? And that went horribly.

Steph: 16:36

Mm-hmm.

Sarah: 16:36

Um, but in some ways I thought it was kind of a good thing because to me it was proof, you know? Right. And I like to have. Evidence in life, you know, and, explanations for things. And it became so apparent that I need these to survive. And so I again embraced it, got back, and now it's been several years since I've been back on the original meds.

Steph: 17:02

The, so you're back on the original meds. Okay. Yes. I think that's a brilliant point that, that sometimes like, uh, I remember there've just been a few random days when I would forget to take my A DHD meds and I, like, I'd get through the morning and be like, God, what is wrong with me? Yeah. Like, I feel like I'm underwater, like something is not right. Mm-hmm. And then, oh. Right. So it is validating and it is validating, but then, then there's that thing of like, oh my gosh, well, I'm obviously quote addicted to these, or reliant on them or need them. And again, would we reframe that? Like I'm addicted to my insulin, like exactly what I know, you know? So why so? Why do we have that shame around saying, well, I tried to go off my meds and it didn't work, and I'm back on them,

Sarah: 17:49

right?

Steph: 17:50

So what feelings come up for you around that, that whole process?

Sarah: 17:54

So, I mean, if I'm being completely honest, I still struggle. I do have some shame surrounding, you know, being reliant on these meds and I don't know where it comes from. Well, I, you know, society I guess, you know, but I guess I don't know why I can't completely push it away given how I feel. About it. It's very confusing to me. Of course like at the end of the day, I wish I didn't have to take, you know, three to four pills a day. You know, it's not ideal, likely for the rest of my life, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, but I know that I would not. Be able, I mean, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't, I mean it life could not go on at this point without these meds. It's just a fact.

Steph: 18:44

Right. And I, you know, when you said like, I don't know why I feel this way about it, because like if you were giving advice to your best friend. Like, you would never, you would never, like I say that to my kids all the time, why are you talking to yourself like this? Would you talk to your best friend this way? Would you talk to me this way or each other? Yeah. And, but, and it's like, why, why are you feeling this way? Well be because of the society we live in. And listen, I'm, I've been known to blame the patriarchy for everything. And uh, maybe this is just one more example, but like, really we can't win. We as women, we cannot win and like, guess what? This is the body and brain that you drew when you came to this planet. Like this is what you've got. Are you gonna just be pissed that this is what you have and refuse to take care of it with the correct owner's instructions? Or are you gonna read the manual that actually fits your body and brain?

Sarah: 19:36

Exactly

Steph: 19:37

like, yep. We all wish that we didn't have to do anything special to take care of our systems. You know, that if we just ingested enough kale, that we would just be cured. And I mean, I make my like, this is such a pain in my ass. I hate doing this. Every week I do it while I'm watching tv. I take out my little Monday through Sunday pill holders with the AM and the pm'cause I take so many fucking pills. I can't just have one. I need the AM meds and the PM meds. And it's like, I look, I live near Boulder, Colorado. I'm a crunchy person. I'm pretty healthy. I have plenty of tinctures. I get exercise, like whatever, I go to therapy, but I am like, in the morning I take my Adderall and my anti-inflammatory because I have some chronic pain stuff. And in the, in the evening I take my progesterone'cause I'm in perimenopause and my allergy pill and I've gotten my. My Lexapro for anxiety dose down from 20 down to 10. Um, and I have got an estrogen patch on and a continuous glucose monitor. Oh shit, I forget Metformin because I have insulin resistance because of perimenopause. So like. That is a shit load of meds, of, of patches. Mm-hmm. Of pills. And do I wish that I was just like, like a, like a self-cleaning oven. Sure. Right. But I'm, but I'm not. Right. And since I'm not, since I'm a little high maintenance, I would rather feel good in my body and my brain. And I wish that that could just be the end of the conversation, you know?

Sarah: 21:04

Exactly. Yeah. The fact that. There is an option to feel better. Why is that a bad thing to take advantage of?

Steph: 21:12

I would like to really ask anyone who's listening, why is that a bad thing? And then again, when we think about that in terms of our kids, a lot of people get a DHD diagnoses because their kids get diagnosed and then it's like it's genetic and you're like, oh my God. It was the opposite for me. I finally, after like years of therapy and like trying to figure out like why I just didn't feel right in my. In my brain. Mm-hmm. I find like I was the one pushing this diagnosis through. Nobody helped me. Right. I was just like, a friend of mine was like, Hey, read this book. How to Keep House while drowning. Also, I think I'm about to get an A DH ADHD diagnosis. This is my childhood best friend, and I'm like, wait, you. Like you're the least hyperactive person I know. And me, I was a gifted and talented child and I never disrupted class. When my parents went to parent teacher conferences, they said they wanted a room full of Stephanie's. So obviously the two of us couldn't have a DHD. That doesn't make sense. But she was a step ahead of me and I got curious and I asked my doctor and they did the like the quick checklist and they're like, yeah, you know, you probably do, but if you don't want meds. And I'm like, I don't need meds. Why would I take meds then? There's no point, right? And then when I got a divorce, that's when everything went to shit. Because if you have executive functioning challenges and now you're the only adult in the house, and you also have really sensitive emotional kids and you're parenting them through a really intense crisis, you're not gonna remember the milk delivery and the mail and really anything. And so it was a necessity that I finally got my own diagnosis. And then I'm like, oh my God, my kids have it too. Yeah. And and they obviously do and and have been diagnosed and we're all on meds and I don't know, I just think, God, I had to work pretty damn hard to get a diagnosis. Like,

Sarah: 23:04

yeah.

Steph: 23:04

I think if there's anything that I want to change for, you know, future generations, it's like start looking for this in little girls. Right. This is not just for something that is like for naughty kids or disruptive kids. Like many of us are suffering only inside our own brains and there is no external disruption to our environments. And so like start understanding what it looks like in girls. Start recognizing it. And I know that your diagnosis felt late for you'cause you weren't a kid. And then I think, you know, I was in my mid forties. I have a, a friend in my writing circle who got diagnosed in her sixties for God's sakes. Right. Like, how much of your life that you look back on and you're like, God, I didn't need to, I didn't need to have felt that miserable for this whole time.

Sarah: 23:53

Yes. It's so frustrating. And, and just to know that, I mean, just the way our healthcare system is, is. Depressing in itself because mm-hmm. It's just, you know that there's going to be so many people that go, that live their lives without a diagnosis. And whether that's because they don't have the resources or because they're ashamed to get a diagnosis, um, you know, people are not living, I think, to their. Potential or their capability because they're not being medicated properly.

Steph: 24:27

We're not even supposed to take Tylenol for fuck's sake. Right. Exactly. How, how are we, how are we supposed to feel good about taking Adderall every day?

Sarah: 24:34

Right. Exactly.

Steph: 24:35

I mean, and it's like I, people who know me like, yeah, I, I am, I take Adderall every single day. Am I, I like a basket case. No. Like, has it, has it toned my personality down? Am I like a zombie? Clearly not. You know, like, let's re-envision here what it looks like to be a woman taking Adderall. Like this is not desperate housewives. Like, we're not locked in the bathroom with a martini for God's sakes. Like it's just ridiculous. I'm just right. I'm so tired of it. And like, just start expanding your paradigm. And if you don't know, if you don't understand something, admit that you don't understand. I don't understand bipolar, I don't understand how, why does everyone have autism and a DH ADHD now if you don't understand. Ask, educate yourself. You know, certainly don't listen to people telling you you should drink bleach or avoid Tylenol. But like, I, I'm just so eager for the tide to turn in some way so that people are suffering less. And, and the answer isn't just pharmaceuticals. It's, it's a big picture. But it involves like giving people permission to try to understand themselves. Like that's worthwhile.

Sarah: 25:45

Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I. You know, I continue to write about this type of stuff because I just, you know, I want to make people feel, and myself, you know, feel that there's nothing to be ashamed of, you know, and I just make, you know, make people know that they're not alone.

Steph: 26:07

I love the way that you said that because when we are writing about these things, we're writing for other people. And you said, and for myself, because that's the thing, when we're healing ourselves, we're healing other people. When we're connecting with other people, it's also healing for us. Right. So it's, it's really, it's an important work that you're doing. Um, so you're a mom.

Sarah: 26:25

Yes, I have a 4-year-old son.

Steph: 26:28

Okay. Can you talk a little bit about how dealing with A DHD and bipolar has, has impacted your motherhood? Because I think motherhood can be a time when sort of the, the lid comes off are holding it all together. It can be very difficult and, and even more essential to find something that's working for us so that we're able to, to do our best parenting.

Sarah: 26:52

Absolutely. When I was pregnant with my son. That was the lowest I ever tried to go on my meds. So start there. It was a struggle to begin with. Um, but I knew, and I got a lot of judgment for staying on meds at all during my pregnancy, um, and not breastfeeding. And, you know, that's another story. Um, but, so right after I gave birth, I started to slowly build up my meds again because I knew. I was going to be the best mom I could be if I was medicated, you know? Yes. And I think my A DHD maybe, got a bit more intense in the early days of being a mom. When I started to feel like I had to entertain him and teach him Oh my God. That,

Steph: 27:38

yeah, that, and it

Sarah: 27:39

was, yeah. And it just, it felt, and it still at some points feels impossible, you know? Um, and just juggling that and the, you know, what I thought were, you know, expectations that I had to live up to, um, on top of these. Intrusive thoughts. Yes. And this constant, um, I mean just, you know, constantly moving brain in all different directions, not only about what I have to do for my child, but also thinking like one example, um, and this is something I've written about, is. You know, having my parents over and they're playing with my kid and then I start thinking about when they're gonna die and I start thinking about their funerals and it's like, what are you doing mind? Like stop that. Get outta here. You know, we're in this moment. So I think, um. It's been important for me and I've had a lot of kind of, um, well, I've had a lot of drops in my mood, uh, recently and I've been, um, playing around with my meds a little bit these last few months, um, because I'm having, again, a lot of trouble with being present and feeling like I can even handle the present. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, and it's so important for me, um, to be a good mom and to be there for him and. To, you know, I'm constantly beating myself up over not feeling like I'm doing everything exactly right, you know, and having to take a moment and giving'em more time in front of the TV because I just need a second to myself. You know, like it's just, you know, anything I can do to help make me be my best version, you know? Um. I'm willing to do, which means weekly therapy and maintaining this commitment to figuring out the right dose and stuff.

Steph: 29:31

Yep. Good for you. You're doing everything right and thank you for being so honest about what it feels like. Um, because I think that age, yes you do. You have to manage so much. You're teaching them, you're entertaining them, and I just wish that I could like. Like do the, well, you're younger than I am. The saved by the bell, the Zach Morris pause button. Like, can I just pause this and just like flop around on the couch and let my eyes like roll back in my head and just be like, oh my God, I don't wanna play. I don't wanna talk, I don't wanna wipe you. I don't want to microwave a hot dog. I don't wanna do any like just. And I think it's really difficult to understand that. And look, I was not medicated for the majority of my motherhood. Like what the fuck? Like I there I absolutely should have been. Like I should have been. And I, I, like, I try not to live in that space of like, I've been wronged. No one diagnosed me. I'll never get these years back, like just being grateful for where I am now. Mm-hmm. But when I look back at some of my just like epic struggles and morning meltdowns and road trip meltdowns and missing the bus and, and not being present and not wanting to be present, I just like. Oh my God, can I tag out? No, there's no tagging out. And, and the stakes do feel high. And, um, the intrusive thoughts. That's when I first finally got on Lexapro for anxiety. I did not have a diagnosis yet, was because my youngest daughter had broken her arm in an incredibly traumatic way, and like, I didn't know that arms could do that, and I could not stop the intrusive thoughts. Mm. And so. The Lexapro was a godsend for me. And then she, she gave me like a, like a PRN, like an emergency anxiety med for those spinning thoughts nights. It's just I, but I didn't have any tools to cope with my tremendous parenting stress, and, and Lexapro helped a lot, but it was, it was the, the stimulant is what keeps me feeling like I'm online and it's just mm-hmm. It's hard to describe to someone. It doesn't amp you up. It, it, it, like, I don't know. One of my friends who helped me get a diagnosis, um,'cause she sent me to her nurse practitioner, was like, I didn't realize that everyone in the entire world didn't have this constant running commentary in their brain all the time. I'm like, oh, they don't.

Sarah: 31:55

What? Yeah. I had a similar experience with that. I'm like, what do you mean you don't have like different cover? And, and I'm, they're like, you hearing voices, it's like, no, I'm not hearing, I'm not imagining different people inside. I'm not hall brain hallucinating, but I am hearing voices. Right. But I am hearing a lot of different, yeah, a lot of different people narrating my life right now for me. And I

Steph: 32:15

guess when we ask a man what he's thinking and he says nothing, maybe he's not lying. I'm like. What person is literally thinking about nothing. Right. I'm thinking of 14 things right now and there's a song playing in my head. Exactly. You know, like that I think to me is the worst. I, I'd been on Concerta for a while and it was 24 hours, which was really great for me, but I started to feel like my focus was just not like I started to feel foggy. Mm-hmm. And so we switched, I tried Vyvanse and that did not work with my system. I was too, I was jittery. I also

Sarah: 32:46

didn't like that. Yeah.

Steph: 32:47

And like my Apple watch was like, your heart rate has been elevated for three weeks. And I was like, oh shit. So then now I'm on the, the 12 hour Adderall and um, and it's great for me, but I will wake up at 5:00 AM and my brain is on. And that's the thing that I miss about having the 24 hour is like mm-hmm. I'm tired of waking up earlier than I want to with my brain being turned on. You know. Yeah. But, um, it's, it's something, and again, you're right, it is gonna take a little bit of experimenting and then mm-hmm. You're younger than I am. I'm not going to talk about hormones at all with you because like, I might just keep one foot in front of the other. Put your blinders on. Well, I don't know. I feel like the whole,

Sarah: 33:26

the whole PMDD thing has also been, oh, an issue for me in talking about how that comes into play is, you know, I mean that's, yeah. I mean, that's been a nightmare too. And lately I actually have been wondering about. Per perimenopause. How old are you? I'm about to be 39 next month.

Steph: 33:45

Yeah. You're on the doorstep. Yeah, and I, I would get a handle on it as soon as possible because it is, it's worse and it's harder for us with spicy brains. Um, I would recommend I interviewed Dr. Jolene Brighton. Um. While ago, and she's amazing. And she, she has a DHD and she's, you know, perimenopausal. Um, but she's a huge mental health advocate and she talks a lot about PMDD and A DHD and like, that's the thing about us. Like all of our chemicals are, I mean, it's like I'm trying to find this delicate balance to, to balance my estrogen, my progesterone, and my neurotransmitters for a DHD. And then I've got insulin and I'm like, my God.

Sarah: 34:26

So much.

Steph: 34:27

Like I look at my pill container that I was talking about. I'm like, what is this gonna look like when I'm 80? Right. I know.'cause this is, but I, I don't, but like, that's the thing. Um, what's the alternative? Like, you need exactly. Need to be committed. Like you said, if you're gonna be a, a good enough mom, I'm not saying a good mom, I'm saying good enough, right? Mm-hmm. Like you gotta shift that shit. Right now. Um, you are a good enough mom. I am a good enough mom. Like all, whatever messages tell us we should feel guilty or ashamed for taking medication are the same ones that are telling you you're not a good mom. Those are the voices that need to shut up. Don't listen to that. Like it's not helpful. And as I struggled with my own guilt about the type of mom I am, which is like. I will snuggle the shit out of you. I will help you unpack your feelings. We will have heart to hearts. I am your safe place. Let's watch movies. Let's make snacks. Let's like love. Yeah, but I do not remember Spirit Week. I am not the room mother, I swear. A lot. I am impatient in the car. Um, like there are so many things about my motherhood. Like I can't French braid, I don't do crafts. Okay. Like I suck and I spent so much time and I have teenagers now 14 and 19 like these girls are. They're big. And I didn't fuck up too badly. Right? Um, but like I just had to accept I'm not that kind of mom. Yeah, that's a really good point. This kind of mom. And while you're still newish at this, like that's the message I wanna give you. Like you are this kind of mom and you're crushing it at being this kind of mom. Don't try to be another kind of mom. Your kid is gonna understand himself and his system because he has you as a lighthouse saying. Know yourself, trust yourself, advocate for yourself. Mm-hmm. You eat, drink, swallow the pills that you need to, to make you feel your best. Like we're gonna explore these big feelings together. That's what matters. That he feels emotionally safe with you and the other shit is, is not important. Like you just keep yourself focused and you're doing a great job and you're setting a great example.

Sarah: 36:42

Thank you so much. Yeah. Those are. I need to, I should have been writing all those down right now.'cause I need to start talking about stuff. Well, good news. This is on the

Steph: 36:51

podcast. I know. You could just play it back on a loop. I'll make a real out of it and it will be equivalent of all of our good enough daily mantra. Yeah, it's your, exactly. Your daily affirmations because like that's when we are dealing with complicated brains and systems. The last thing we need to do is shame ourselves for not being like a TV mom. It's just, it's like, did you sign up to have this brain? Is that what you wanted? No. You wanted the easy one. Guess what? You didn't get it. Maybe your kid thinks that he wants this kind of mom. Guess what? You didn't get it. So like, are we gonna be pissed off all day about the, the hand we were dealt, or are we gonna make the best of it? Are being like leaning into the things that you are really good at. Because those of us who are chemically complicated, we are really good at a lot of things.

Sarah: 37:37

Yeah. And that's the thing that I, I have tried to really embrace, uh, recently, is that, you know, I'm so done with being told, um, that. These are weaknesses. You know, the fact that I feel so much and worry about a million things all the time is, you know, makes me weak. Um, or, you know, ridiculous or whatever you wanna call it. Um, I do, I think it makes me a better human being. It makes me more, um, you know, I feel connected to so many more people. You know, it gives me empathy. It's, it's who I am. I mean, I'm never gonna not. You know, I feel as much as I do, but I'm done. You know, with people telling me that, that makes me a too much type of person or, you know,

Steph: 38:33

so you need to listen to those words back and we all need to listen to those words because that is truly it. It's along with. The pills we have to take and the therapy we have to go to and all the extra self-care stuff we need to do comes this gift, this superpower of exactly what you said, empathy, feeling, everything. Like I wouldn't wanna be a different person, right? Like yeah, the lows can be low, but I feel so much, so much joy, so much love, and that is a gift. I interviewed Britt Ballard. She was my first guest interview a few weeks ago for the new podcast, and she said, uh, she used the word porous, like there, I'm not, there's nothing broken here. There's nothing to fix. I'm just porous. I'm feeling everything I'm alive and like I've just, I've had it with the too much club. Like forget. Yeah. If you think we're too much than like, I'm not for you. I'm not your cup of tea. Exactly. But like this is an important lesson for us to learn at this stage of our lives, that we know who we are. And we're not apologizing for it.

Sarah: 39:32

Yeah, I'm done with that for sure.

Steph: 39:35

Mm-hmm. Well, you are such a gift. Will you tell our listeners where they can find you, how they can read your writing and follow you?

Sarah: 39:43

Yeah, you can find my writing@sarahmichellesherman.com and my Instagram is the same.

Steph: 39:48

Cool. I'll Sarah Michelle Sherman, I'll put all of this in the show notes, but I just can't thank you enough for such a raw, candid conversation about things that we really need to be talking about

Sarah: 39:59

anytime. This was great. Thank you so much.

40:03

Thanks for being here. Together, we're going to make midlife neurodivergence less of a mystery.