Peri-Normal

The Antidote to Hustle Culture and Why "The Grind" Doesn't Work for Most Women

• Stephanie Sprenger

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone feeling the squeeze of midlife, burnout, or just the relentless grind of doing it all. Steph sits down with Jenni Gritters, author of "The Sustainable Solopreneur," for a real, no-holds-barred chat about what it means to build a business (and a life) that actually works for you—especially if you’re neurodivergent, a parent, or just plain tired of patriarchal hustle culture.

What’s Inside:

  • Why the old rules of grind culture just don’t work for most women (especially during motherhood and perimenopause)—and why that’s not your fault.
  • Jenni’s journey from media burnout to building a business that honors her body, her family, and her creativity.
  • The power of pausing, pivoting, and giving yourself permission to evolve (spoiler: it’s not failure, it’s growth!).
  • How nature, cycles, and the “sacred feminine” can inspire a more sustainable way to work and live.
  • The importance of community, support, and letting go of the “eldest daughter” perfectionist energy.
  • Practical tools for checking in with your capacity, setting boundaries, and making space for what really matters.
  • Why midlife is actually a portal to power, not a slide into irrelevance—and how to embrace your “queen” era.
  • Jenni's programs for solopreneurs, including her sacred council and creative intensives (with a waitlist you can join!).

Big Takeaways:

  • You don’t have to do it all, all the time. Seasons, cycles, and pauses are not just okay—they’re necessary.
  • Your body is wise. Listen to it before it shouts!
  • There’s no one-size-fits-all for business or life. Find what fits you, and don’t be afraid to compost what doesn’t.
  • Community and support are essential—let’s circle up and carry the lantern for each other.
  • Permission to build a career you love that doesn't drain you: granted.

Links & Resources:

Thanks for tuning in! Let’s keep redefining normal, together.

Midlife. A DHD can be scary, but it doesn't have to be. Here on paranormal, we are demystifying neurodivergence and perimenopause plus. With candid conversations and advice from experts, join me for a no holds barred exploration of what it means to be neurodivergent at midlife. Let's redefine normal together. I'm Steph Springer, and this is Paranormal Today on the Paranormal Podcast, I have Jenny Gritters with me. So you may notice that my voice doesn't sound fantastic right now. Uh, don't worry, you don't have to listen to it for the entire episode. Jenny and I had a conversation about her new book, the Sustainable Solopreneur, and as we were talking about. How so many women who are running their own businesses are burned out, just grind, hustle, culture, not working for them. I talked about how my body's resistance has always been to give me laryngitis, and I told her that I knew I was quickly approaching this burnout place where. You know, if I wasn't careful, I was gonna get it cold. And I did get it cold and then my body took it one step farther and I have laryngitis. So I'm introducing Jenny with my, um, chain smoking cabaret, singer voice, or maybe channeling Phoebe singing smelly cat if you're a friend's watcher. But I wanna take a minute to let you know that I think this episode is really special, whether or not you're self-employed or work outside the home at all? I think there's a powerful message in this episode from Jenny about how we need to be doing things differently. Um, we are burning ourselves out, and her new book, this Sustainable solopreneur, came at the perfect time for me. So here's a little blurb about the book business coach and strategist Jenny Grit's new book, the Sustainable Solopreneur is not the one quick fix you need to buy to change your business. This is about sustainable solo entrepreneurship. A whole new way of thinking about building your business of one so it lasts and it doesn't extract from your wellbeing. In the book, Jenny writes about the ways nature models sustainability for us, and she takes those metaphors a step further to walk you through implementing creativity, flexibility, intention, awareness, and reciprocity into your work. It's juicy stuff you guys, and again, whether or not you work for yourself, I think you were gonna identify. With this almost primal call, I think especially for women at midlife to return to a different way of doing things. We are gonna get in the weeds here about the sacred feminine. We're going to talk about our work schedules. We're gonna talk about what led Jenny to completely overhaul her career. And as you're hearing me right now, this is the other side of what happens when our work life is not sustainable. So get ready to dig in.

Steph:

Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Per Normal podcast. I'm Steph Springer, and today I have Jenny Gritters with me. The Sustainable Solopreneur, Arrived in my mailbox last week, and I have been taking my time with it, highlighting it, leaving little notes in the margin. I just told Jenny a minute ago that I found her at kind of the perfect moment in my life because her book is called The Sustainable Solopreneur, and I told her that this is the moment at which my solo entrepreneurship had pretty much become unsustainable. Like Jenny caught me at a moment when I am, I'm 47, fully perimenopausal single mom, full-time, single mom, and this has been the last year I have had to. Really take my part-time work into full-time post-divorce. So this is a moment when hormones and stress and parenting are colliding for me, and I have been sort of clawing my way to a career that doesn't fry my nervous system. So Jenny is gonna talk to us today about what a sustainable life looks like when you are working for yourself by yourself, and. She's gonna put the pieces together of why this moment in our lives as women at midlife, whether we are in perimenopause, menopause, or not. While we are immersed in our work, our bodies, sometimes caring for children, sometimes caring for parents, why is it important right now that we have a career that doesn't burn us out? So with that big to-do, welcome to the podcast, Jenny.

Jenni:

Oh, thanks for having me, Steph. I feel like our first conversation, uh, we could have talked for seven hours, so I'm just excited. Oh, yes, we're recording this round and we have so much in common and I, yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait to hear how your story intertwines with this too, because I think it really is the perfect moment.

Steph:

Right. I, I think it is the perfect moment and yes, that conversation, I don't know, we talked for maybe 20 minutes-ish, something like that, and it was one of those conversations that might have gone on forever. There was so much, oh my gosh, me too happening. And when I learned about, Jenny will tell you a little bit of her origin story, but when I learned about how she started really focusing on this, this concept of having a. A work life that you love that also doesn't burn you out and grind you into a pulp. She was telling me how she, this happened by necessity because of hyperemesis during both of your pregnancies, right?

Jenni:

Yes. Yep. Yeah. And you had the same experience?

Steph:

I had the same with my second where I had to quit working because I was basically like a full-time vomiter. Like literally, I just, I would throw up out my car window in the backyard at the swimming pool, just, and finally I was like. I can't work anymore.'cause all I do is puke. So. I

Jenni:

know.

Steph:

I

Jenni:

know. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Shall we talk about that part?

Steph:

Let's talk. Yes. Talk about that part. And so tell us like where you were career wise before you became a mom, and then what happened and the like. Completely powerful. Pivot you made at that moment?

Jenni:

Yeah, so I have a background as a journalist. I worked in media at all the, you know, big media companies for about a decade. I was at the New York Times in 2018 as an editor and I got laid off and so I was already pretty burnt out. Probably a lot of your listeners know this story, like have experienced it. I was, I had insomnia. I was working 60 hour weeks, like the whole thing, and so I decided I would. Stage and experiment where I would work for myself. And you know, eight years later, I never went back, but it was. Uh, that was pre-kids, right? So it was 2018. I could kind of still work in the way I used to work. I think that's important to say, like the nine to five, the, you know, I was hustling for lack of a better word. And then about a year in, I got pregnant and um, I got pregnant with twins at the outset. So I was not only with hyperemesis, um, you know, twin pregnancy, lost one of the babies, and I was like, I am not the same person. I don't. Feel good ever. You know, ever, ever, ever. I'm puking. And so it really forced me to kind of completely restructure not only my hours of work, but the way I thought about work. You know, it just really got shoved on the back burner. And of course I like somehow insanely did it again when I had my daughter. So. Each time I think there's been these pivots and these iterations where I'm asking myself all these questions about, well, if I feel terrible work, no longer is my identity. I actually have to focus on taking care of myself. So then where does work go? And also, I'm not in a position to not work. I'm the primary owner in my family. And so what you see now is I think an iteration. Probably five. It almost feels like five pivots in of like me having to restructure, restructure, restructure, restructure. And over that time I've become known for coaching people who have the same experience, who are caring for aging loved ones or for children or for themselves. And, um. There's just not a lot of resources out there.

Steph:

Um, no. There, there aren't. Yeah, of course there aren't. Because again, I mean, I do have a habit of bringing nearly everything back to the patriarchy, but it, I think it works in this case because we are, we are up operating in a paradigm that was not built for us as women, number one.

Jenni:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Steph:

Hustle, culture, grinding. Um, having side gigs on top of your full-time work, the world isn't gonna do you any favor. Suck it up buttercup. All this bootstrap crap. It's not built for us and it doesn't work for us. And no one is teaching us a different way because. As a society, like there aren't systems in place to help working women thrive. So of course there aren't resources. Thank God you have become a resource.

Jenni:

Yes. Only by trial and fire. I mean, you know, that's like part of my struggles. There's a scene in the book where I'm sitting on the couch having a full on panic attack. I had to call my mom. I had a six month old and a three month old, and I was like, I don't think I can parent right now. And it was because I was carrying so much. I was running. Two companies. I was like, you know, home with both kids. They kept getting sick and so then I couldn't show up to work and it was my body telling me, no, we're not doing this right. And so I had to start trying things a different way, a cyclical way. You know, I, I reduced my work hours so heavily. I was working about 10 to 15 hours a week when my kids were little. And I still needed to make eight to$10,000 a month. So it was like, almost like a, it was like a puzzle, you know? Like, how are we gonna make that work? And it did work, uh, and has taught me so much now that is beneficial, but it's not like I would wish it on anyone. But no, it's, it's common. I think that we all of a sudden hit this wall when we go through these milestone moments as women, I think, um, where we're stepping into our power, frankly. That's sort of what I think of these little thresholds.

Steph:

Yes.

Jenni:

And you open your eyes and you go. Oh wait, none of none of what you're talking about. It applies to me at all at this point.

Steph:

Right.

Jenni:

So what do I do?

Steph:

And I love that you basically, you said, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And I like how you talked about different iterations and how you had to pivot. It wasn't, you didn't say, I screwed it up, I failed. I think that there's so much wisdom in noticing like, oh, I tried this, it wasn't quite a fit. How can I reconfigure this? How can I reimagine it? And I think that that's what, if you have like a funny career, like mm-hmm. I've always called mine a cobbled together career, like all these hobbies that weren't sure what they wanted to be when they grew up. But I think I wanna do them for work and like just, I've always had this self-consciousness about the type of work I do. I've told several people, like when I talked to you, I loved our conversation because finally, I wasn't talking to someone who was like, you are doing. You do what? Like I kept listing the things and you were just like nodding. You weren't like, you know, and but so the pivoting, I think that is essential to this kind of work, but I also think that if you're a perfectionist, you might interpret that as like, I keep trying and failing all these things. I'm not getting it right. Rather than trial and error, rather than that curiosity.

Jenni:

Absolutely. There's a whole chapter in the book about creativity, which I take to mean this kind of like. Clenched fists, hands open, curiosity over judgment. And I mean, this is hard, right? I think it's a muscle, I don't think it's something we're taught to do, frankly, but it was like I would show up and I would literally say this out loud stuff. I'd say, okay, I have three months and I'm setting an experiment and I'm not gonna judge myself until the end of three months. And we're just gonna see how it goes. So I write about one in the book where my husband literally left his job, um, because we were like. The numbers aren't numbering. The math isn't math thing. Like I don't, everything people are telling us to do doesn't work, so we need to like change something drastic here. But we did it for three months. Like we weren't just like, and now this is the new thing, right? Because my brain can't hold that much. I can't put that much on one idea. Right. And so it allows for that sort of agility and flexibility and lack of self-judgment. I mean, I also like you have an exploded creative brain, so I like to build things like it.

Steph:

Right.

Jenni:

Gives me joy. And I think that's what a pivot is, frankly, which is a huge permission slip. But

Steph:

oh my gosh. It's like a pivot is a joy explosion that you give you, you authorize, it's like an authorized joy explosion.

Jenni:

Yes. And I love to create like

Steph:

permission to create.

Jenni:

I love to like be like, oh, it's not working, I'm gonna. Set myself free from this prison. Right. So I think I've learned over time that there's actually, when I hit a wall, there's something really good on the other side if I'm willing to sit in all of the mess. But it just took that many iterations,

Steph:

right?

Jenni:

Um, to kind of like realize, oh, this is a muscle. And maybe, I mean, I would define sustainability for me as the ability to evolve that is. Right. I'm not stuck. And especially when you have small children or chronic illness, I think the situation is changing so often that that's why I would define it that way because it's like that's how I survive. It's by

Steph:

that is brilliant,

Jenni:

evolving. Mm-hmm.

Steph:

And how many of us have perceived that kind of. Course correction as a failure rather than an evolution. We need to reimagine this. As you were talking about how this was all born out of necessity, like you were like you couldn't, what would it be like for us as women if we came to this consciously rather than. An emergency like yes. Isn't it sad that sometimes we get to these changes because we have pushed ourselves so hard or driven ourselves into the ground that we either have have a health emergency or because something catastrophic has happened in our family or in our bodies? Like what would it be like if we just chose this instead?

Jenni:

Actively You chose it actively. I think I do that now. I think I. See it coming, but at the beginning I felt like I was doing it wrong. I mean, I remember sitting there being like, why can't I just return to work and do what I was doing before with these two kids? Like something must be wrong with my capacity. The, that's not true, right? Like that is not true. And I know that now, right? And so now I see it coming and now I think that's part of my job as a coach is actually to see it coming for my clients as well. And go, this thing you're in is gonna stop working in about five months. So do you wanna change it now or do you wanna wait until. You know, your body will talk. Frankly. That's usually how it goes, right?

Steph:

No, it is how it goes. My, my 19-year-old and I have this like, inside joke about the body Keeps the Score, which is a book that I own that I haven't actually read, but I feel like I read. It's somehow just knowing the title and I'm absorbing it via osmosis. Mm-hmm. But like, that stuff is totally legit. But we will make, we'll be like, mm. Body keeps the score. Mm. Body keeps the score. Like this cheeky thing. And a week ago in a workshop, someone was telling me that they had a cold and how it was like. This little blessing. And I was like, I've been saying to myself, if you don't slow down, your body's gonna give you an illness. And then it did. It was like, how many more grinded out days are you gonna try? You are gonna push your luck like a toddler. Just reach. Reach. You know what's gonna happen. Your body is too smart for this shit. And when I had my big career change in 2023, I had lost my voice. Eight times in one year before I finally started listening to my body.

Jenni:

Of course, I mean, I think this is how it goes. I often have this referring that, I will say that you can only move as fast as the pace of your human body, and a lot of the people I work with are generators and we're really busy and we have lots of ideas, and so our body will intervene. What's interesting though is I think when I have a good example of this, about six months ago I got pneumonia and I had been sort of like push, I wrote the, this book in a month. Um, so I wrote the book, amazing, LOL, and I wrote it in a month. And then I was like, and now we're gonna renovate our bathroom and now we're gonna, you know, I did all these things and I crashed and burned and I got pneumonia and I had to be in bed for a week. And as someone with young children who's very busy, I can't tell you the last time I've been in bed for a week. I laid in bed for a week and I read books, and out of that came a program that I launched. It was a$70,000 program. The launch was, and it was so easy, and it was because I slowed down, you know? Yes. But it's like I did have to be forced to. I'm trying to learn to do it proactively, but those are actually often really good moments. I've, I, I watched this happen in other women's businesses, right? Like, we're so annoyed. But that slowdown is where all the juiciness is. And frankly, the permission slip to do a lot less than you're doing. And have it still be highly effective. Right. It sort of like for forces you to hone in on the certain things you actually care about. So it's, yeah. Our bodies are, are wise.

Steph:

They are, they are wise. And, okay. This is so fascinating. Putting a pin in. I want, I want you to tell us more about the program that you created. Mm-hmm. Um, but so back to the so I was throwing way too much at the wall. I learned after about three months of absolute grinding, I was like, oh, I have overpromised in my effort to overdeliver. I have too many creativity babies that I've tried to launch, and none of them are getting any attention. So they're all going hungry when I could have, and it's like at that moment I was like, well, it's too late to take it back, so I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to finish this out. What small changes can I make to get through this? But then I was like. So if I'm disappointed about a workshop or a show or a group or something that didn't take off the way I thought, what might the gift in that be? Right? And, and asking yourself these questions about, um, what might work better or what do you really wanna be doing? And so I've decided as a classic, uh, overachiever that I've made my word of the Year for 2026 already. Yeah, that's right. Two months ahead. And it's, you love

Jenni:

it.

Steph:

It's pause, pause. Like I don't pause my A DHD brain and my energy level and my cortisol and my single mom nervous system does not know how to pause. And I think it is in those pauses when we get struck by the lightning that we need,

Jenni:

it's where the intention lives. You know? I think we're so reactive. Most of us, and I think also you and I have similar nervous systems. I work with women who also like. We were the ones who did it all, all the time. We were usually parentified to some degree as kids, and so we're really vigilant, and that means we're responding, responding, responding, responding. And. There's that Viktor Frankl quote I think is also in the book that between stimulus and response, there's a space. And in the space is where the freedom is. Yes. And I talk about this all the time'cause it's like between the thing that's happening to you and how you respond, there is a moment and it's also a muscle. I mean, it's like, it's a practice tos, a

Steph:

practice

Jenni:

pause more often. I think there's a whole section in the book about the pause that I teach people, which is. Do you have a checklist of questions to ask yourself about if this opportunity is actually one you want to say yes to? Because most of us will just say yes. I,

Steph:

oh, I will.

Jenni:

People plea. Right? And we love the shiny objects. We're like to

Steph:

more and we like the idea. It's a big idea. It's fun. Yes. And why not? Why not? But if you pause and that's what I'm like, like you said, it's practice. Um, I have been working with Anne iig, who's the founder of Listen to Your Mother, and she does this beautiful positive psychology coaching and. She talks about how it's inside is 20% and practice is 80. Like you can understand cognitively like, oh, I should pause, but if you're not practicing it, you're not gonna do it. Mm-hmm. And so, and you know you use words. Okay. Like just reading through these chapters, we've got like. Intention, self-awareness, flexibility, creativity. Like are these words that are in the traditional model of like how to be a successful business owner?

Jenni:

Absolutely not. I mean

Steph:

like I did not see grind or sell your soul in there.

Jenni:

No. It's so funny, I was looking on Amazon'cause it's in the small business book section and I'm like. My book has literally a watercolor painting of a wetlands on it.

Steph:

One of these things is not like the other.

Jenni:

I'm like, I'm teaching something very different. I'm teaching something seasonal. Cyclical, like human centered guess, you know, but also very feminine, I think. And

Steph:

it is

Jenni:

the whole feminine thing is death and rebirth. I mean, that's like what we do. Yes. I live in a house with a dude who could show up every day in the same way, and that's just not how our energy works, right? It's just, it's not, not the same.

Steph:

It's not even how our hormones work. It's not even how we're chemically wired. We are not wired for a stable plateau. It is cycling all over the place from a month to month basis, and then throughout the entire course of our lifetime, we do nothing but cycle.

Jenni:

I know. And so it's like, this is the book about that. This is the book about, you know, I literally wrote down these principles I think in my phone while my kids were at the pool one day. It's like, this is, this book was literally written like while in the trenches doing the things, you know, they're like on their iPads on the couch and I'm hammering away at work. Yes. And so it was like the, the thing I keep saying to people too is this book in writing, it forced me to also live it in a way that, you know, I kind of wrote it in actually an unsustainable way that felt really sexy and fun to me. And then I was like, why did I write that in five weeks? Like no one. Needed that least of all my system. Right. And so it's forced me actually to kind of like learn to move with the cycles around launching and around my launch this past week felt very laced with Reciprocity, which is a, you know, book. That's

Steph:

the one I did.

Jenni:

Yep. Book. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so there's just. Your creations create you too. You know, so it's not like I'm perfect at this, but this one was so confronting.

Steph:

Yeah, no, I bet. That's so funny that you say that. I had a big deadline a week ago today. I had to turn in my manuscript to my publisher. I, I could have just been like, the version you have is fine. We'll, we'll deal with like,'cause the next thing that comes is a big round of developmental edits and, but I had some changes I wanted to make. I had a little, I had a few new things. I wanted to move things around, and I knew this for about a month and. So I naturally did it all last Sunday in seven hours. And, and the thing of it is, it's like sometimes that like absolutely frenetic burst is really not a great idea. But in this case I was like, I. I can't do it any other way. I have to get in the book. I have to do it that way. I have to just spread out all the index cards all over the floor and do nothing else. And so I think that sometimes it's that intuition about knowing when is this leaning into the natural flow for me and when is it I'm being crazy? The day that my meetings went back to back to back and I didn't have time to pee, that was not intuitive. That was a poor choice, right? So totally.

Jenni:

Well, and I think this is my question is, is it a trauma response? Like is it protective or is it. The way your creativity works. Right? Right. Is

it

Steph:

intentional? Is

Jenni:

it, yes. There's, there's part of the book where I say like, it's okay to flood the bank sometimes, like do it be a tidal wave. Right? If that is something that feels good to you and is on purpose, I think a lot of this book is born out of me showing up in acting out of patterns that were either like given to me by corporate America, frankly, or like being a straight A student. Or the family I came from. Right. I'm not unusual. Well,

Steph:

no. We may as well call ourselves the eldest daughters, right? Yes. Welcome to the eldest Daughters club. I don't know if you are one. I, but it's eldest. Oh, I'm okay. I, I mean, I'm like, of course I don't know that you are, but I know that you are. Oh, yes. Eldest daughter, NAMA stay. I see you. Yes, but no, it's that hyper achieving good girl, perfectionist. Do everything right. Don't let anyone down like we are a total trope. Right. It is so eldest. Daughter energy. Absolutely. And we are the ones who. Need to choose to heal ourselves by saying, actually I won't, I won't do that.

Jenni:

Mm-hmm. And that feels

Steph:

really bad to us sometimes.

Jenni:

Oh, so unsafe. Right. So unsafe. And I think a lot of the coaching I do is really about safety at the end of the day. Like, am I allowed to do this? Will I be safe if I do this? Will I make enough money to live if I do this? You know, and there's a lot of principles in this book that I think I initially was like, oh, this is. This can't, this doesn't work. Are you really gonna make a lot of money doing this? And what's interesting is the more I have embraced these principles, the more money I've made in my business doing less. Right? Like it's not. Linear, but our brains really require quite a bit of evidence. And also I think quite a bit of like we need the belonging in the community. This is not something you just go do by yourself, right, right. You need to see reflected in other eldest daughters. The what happens when they start to kind of like release the the clenched grip.

Steph:

Well,

Jenni:

and to understand it's safe. Yeah.

Steph:

And you are a lantern bearer in that way. You're like, safety and permission are the words I keep coming back to, and it's going to take other lantern bearers who are like, look, I've done it this way. And you can too. It's okay. You're gonna feel better, you'll probably be more successful. But this is like a conscious un pattering. It's almost like we grew up in a cult that we're being deprogrammed. From, except we have to do the deprogramming ourselves. Or we find people like you who are like, there is a map to do this. Like, I've learned some things. Let me show you. And I think that we need to start being really conscious about what information we're digesting and what we are saying. No, thank you. Take that plate back. I don't want it.

Jenni:

Yes. And I think this is, I mean, in the business coaching world, there's a lot of the like, here's how you do it. And then I get all the people who are like, I tried to do it and it didn't work. And I'm like, I know because. You're a special snowflake. No, but like you're, you have unique patterning, right? You have ways that your gifts are meant to be brought into the world. And so this book was very intentionally not prescriptive. It's really meant to be field guidey. There's like lots of questions in there and things for you to walk with because no one who works with me walks out with the same business model. I just like. Do not believe in that. But those are the plates you send back. You know the ones that make you feel that kind of like weird dread or like, oh my God, I'm have to be someone else, or, that sounds really exhausting. I don't wanna do that. You know, everything I've done in my business is not, I've not followed the rules. And it's my favorite place to be. Like, my business feels like home because it's my home. You know, it's not,

Steph:

well, I really think the home, I think the only place that a one size fits all is appropriate is like a flowy boho dress that you're gonna wear to a music festival. We can do one size fits all with that. Otherwise, unless you are the size and already, if you were born with a uterus, you aren't the size, like, sorry, bad news. This wasn't designed for you. So you can either keep chiseling yourself away so that you fit. Or you can find a different paradigm and

Jenni:

I call it calling in the representative. There's like this version of us and she's, I feel like we talked about this before. She's like so good at what she does. She's so good. And also she's exhausting. And so we get to let her off the hook a little bit and that takes a while because she's like a safe protector, um, that's standing between our true selves and everybody else. But she's the one who like got the good grades, who makes a lot of money, who makes everybody happy. And she's not real. She's a created persona. And so that to me is like the best part of coaching. When people finally go, oh wait, my weirdness and my. Self is actually the resonant part, and I'm like, exactly.

Steph:

Yes, yes. It's that time when you learn that the mask is a mask and that you are you. It's that. It's that moment when you learn that this part of yourself that you've developed to protect yourself isn't actually you. And I am not surprised that you primarily work with a lot of midlife women, because I think some of us get to this age and I'm. Well, you're never out of the woods as a parent ever, like literally, ever. But, um, things are easier for me in some ways. I have two teenagers, 14 and 19, and it's like, this is a moment where there is a pause for me where I do have a little more space, but I'm also, I'm tuning in more to my body. It's like this shift, this nebulous area between mother and Crone, um, which I think is the queen. Yeah. Um, but we are, we're like, I don't wanna lean into my cr dom, but it's like actually. You should. That's where the medicine is. And so I think as midlife women, our bodies are doing different things now. The ways that we use to care for them aren't working anymore. We are feeling tender. We are feeling more porous is the word one of my guests used. And I love that.

Jenni:

Such a good word for it.

Steph:

Yeah. Ly. And so it's like this is a moment where like it really is important to reevaluate the way we're doing things, or there's gonna be a consequence physically and emotionally.

Jenni:

Yeah, it's like it can't stand anymore. You know? I love the research about why our species has menopause. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's great. It's like. We are one of the few cultures that actually goes through the process of perimenopause and menopause to have elder women because they are so important for the longevity and survival of our species. Like you wouldn't know it, but like the way our society treats it, but it is

Steph:

No. Yeah, we, they didn't get the memo.

Jenni:

No. It's so essential. And so I think about this sort of, I think I love the word queen, but it's like these forties, fifties years are kind of, they are that. Portal, a little bit of

Steph:

the

Jenni:

portal shedding everything. You know, it's in my work. We're not adding anything to you. You're great. We're deconditioning. We're like pulling off all the layers.

Steph:

Yes.

Jenni:

And then letting you look at the world clear-eyed and show up. I think that's the job of that exact time. So of course your body's yelling at you. Of course you're

Steph:

molting.

Jenni:

It's the canary in the coal mine. It's like, wow, all of this is messed up. And you're like. Wait, was it masked up all along? Like it's always been broken, right? And you're, you are now gonna be able to see how to fix parts of it, set up new systems, do things in different ways. So it's like there's so much power in it. I get chills when I talk about it. I agree. But it's also kind of miserable. But also like, there's something about confronting yourself, right? So this, it's why business is like a way to talk about all of this.'cause business is about vocation and service, right? And the way you show up in the world. And that's what everybody's thinking about in the midlife years. I think. Um,

Steph:

I,

Jenni:

if they're not, they're just ignoring it. You know? Like it's there no matter what

Steph:

this is. That was just such a mic drop moment. Like everything you said is so perfect. And yes, I agree with you. I think midlife women, whether we're talking 35 or 55 or 60 or whatever, like we're powerful. We're so powerful. And yes, there is a lot of discomfort in this age, this stage. As we, as we cope with aging, as we realize our hormones aren't balancing, we don't feel as good, but like. Also the fact that society has sent us this message for so long that like you're pack your suitcase towards the land of the irrelevant, you know? Um, and really we are so powerful and I think it is this process of like remembering and waking up. And then I think the key is that we need to have and be those lantern bearers. It's like tell the others. Spread the word, like, it's like we're slowly freeing ourselves.

Jenni:

We do that in a different way too. You know, I think a lot about like, there's the hierarchical model, which I think whenever I try or I end up in those roles, I, they really chafes. Like I don't wanna be the one on the stage telling everybody. I want it to be like the whisper network. The circles. Yeah. And that's what feminine leadership. Is, and I think we are gonna start seeing more of those models, but collective leadership means everyone has a role. You know, it's not just one person. And so, right, we each have something we gotta do. But I mean, of course women of this age get pushed aside because they're like truth bearers, you know, they're dangerous to the system, is what I actually believe. And so. You know, it's an intentional thing and I just, I think it's also changing right now if we're being really honest. I think I

Steph:

do too.

Jenni:

Yeah. The divine feminine power structures are coming back. I agree. That is really. Like really cool, really cool. I have so many women walk into my space now and go, I think I'm really powerful. And I'm like, I know.

Steph:

Yeah, I know. Welcome, welcome to remembering yourself. And if it feels like that's not true, it's because there is a fear response to it. It's because what you're feeling and sensing is the pushback because. You said it so perfectly, I could not have said it any better. That that's, oh my gosh. I, I seriously have like chills everywhere. Um, I want you to tell us a little bit about the work that you're doing with women. Tell us about this program that you created after you had your like, week of bedrest and,

Jenni:

yeah. My week of like bedrest and, um, you know. Lighting candles and sitting at an altar and reading books. You know what a world like

Steph:

delicious,

Jenni:

everyone needs,

Steph:

needs

Jenni:

this.

Steph:

Like, bring on the pneumonia. Where do I sign up for pneumonia? I know.

Jenni:

Knock on wood. I was like, kind of glad I, I said to someone like, this is kind of a mom's dream. Like, don't tell anybody. Um, don't tell anybody. So I am a business coach and strategist for solopreneurs. Um, primarily women and non-binary people. So my work for a long time has been about. Basically teaching people how to do things in a different way. I would say it's a, as you said, it's a lot of safety, it's a lot of permission, it's a lot of self-acceptance. Um, and sort of like disguised under the business umbrella. Like I'm always like, you're coming in to try to make more money. But guess what? We're actually having a conversation about safety and. Value and um, it's like

Steph:

sneaking vegetables into your kids' ketchup or something. Absolutely,

Jenni:

absolutely. Like people will end working with me and they're like, oh, I doubled my revenue, but you know, the good part, I just feel like I'm home. And I'm like, yeah, that's exactly,

Steph:

wow. Hmm.

Jenni:

That's exactly right. So I would say I do have strong. Psychic abilities. Like I, I would say I'm an oracle. I see. Yeah. And so oftentimes I sort of meet people at, I can see what's coming for you. And so I coach their highest potential self. And so what happens is you get to meet me there. So then it's highly effective.'cause we're sort of off to the races really quickly and there's a lot of shedding that has to happen for you to. Showing up in that high potential. So I say that because the program that I launched a couple months ago, I'll do it every six months, is called the Council. And it is a sacred council of 10 women. And you come in and you're basically stepping into your leadership and your power, everybody's entrepreneurs. Um, and we go through modules about wealth and voice and pacing and all the things we're talking about right now. Oh my

Steph:

gosh.

Jenni:

Treat at the end. But it is a sacred council. So we also do a lot of. Ceremonial ritual, kind of just like playing with alternate modalities, playing with intuition. Um, and everybody's very creative. So a lot of artists book, you know, author. When do

Steph:

you open this up again?

Jenni:

Do you

have

Steph:

a wait list?

Jenni:

Yes, I do have a wait list. We can link to it in the show notes. Um, please, please do open up in, in March. And then I do intensives as well. So I do one where we remodel your business. Um. Using, I literally have a craft session in the middle. So we're doing strategy and intuition and art and all this stuff to try to get at the, like, felt sense of your work because that doesn't get talked about very much so, um, so I have some kind of like other tiers of programs, but the council is really special to me. I think that's the way I would like to do my work going forward. And the part I didn't expect is actually I have to also teach women how to be in circle again, because we're all just like. I do it by myself and it's like, no, you have to learn how to let other people in and how to be supported. So it's that plus the like business strategy element that makes it kind of magical. Um, we toggle a lot, right? It's like practical.

Steph:

Yeah.

Jenni:

And witty.

Steph:

I feel like every conversation I have had with any woman on this podcast or for any other reason, we are talking about how we are. Pulled back to the fire like we are circling up again. It's like something woke up inside us and we're remembering this ancient essential need to gather with one another.

Jenni:

Yeah. That

Steph:

gives me in a model that, yeah, no, it's like I have this, I feel like it's Groundhogs Day in a good way. Like I have had this conversation so many times, and so it is, it's like wake up whisper, pass it on, you know? Yeah.

Jenni:

I, yeah, and I. I kind of know this book is interesting. It's kind of like a capstone for my first body of work almost with business. My next body of work will be very heavily focused on what I would call a power study, so teaching women how to be in their, I would say, divine, ancient feminine wisdom principles, like kind of like taking back what actually we've had for a long time. Like there's been this like 3000 year period that's much more masculine. But sitting around a fire, making beautiful altars with flowers, like all these things are things we've been doing for a long time. Yes, that is my next body of work, probably highly focused on wealth. So what's been interesting too is you're catching me right after my first week of launching the book. Right. All of a sudden this weekend, all the new downloads came zooming in because that's what happens when you release the creation into the world. You know? Do you know

Steph:

what happened to me? This is so crazy, but not so. I told you a week ago, I turned in my manuscript to my publisher. Yep. They will have it for like five or six weeks. So right now it's off my plate. I have cleared the month of December. This is something I did very deliberately. Pause. Yay. I paused. I don't do new workshops and I don't produce shows in December. Nice. That's when I go into the cave with my manuscript, so I've got this period where I don't have it. It's off the table. So I went to this myofascial yoga class where we like use the myofascial balls and like you release like, oh, I'm obsessed. I bought them for my house. I traveled with them. It's

Jenni:

so good. It's so good. It's so good. I have them too.

Steph:

We were, oh, I've got goosebumps just thinking about it. So we were doing these like tongue exercises, right? And so the tongue is like connected, like the vagus nerve, which is huge. Mm-hmm. I've been doing vagus nerve exercises every day as part of my morning practice. I have all the whoop, right? Yeah. So I'm doing this, this tongue exercise and I can't stop yawning. And I'm like, Mimi, what's up with that? And she's like, again, with the vagus nerve and the yawning and the connection, oh, it's a

Jenni:

nervous. It's like a sign that your body's releasing and settling. Mm-hmm.

Steph:

Yes. And do you know what happened after that? And I could not stop yawning for like a good 30 seconds. So we lay down on our backs to do something different, and tears just start leaking out of my eyes. Like I can't stop it. I am just sitting there crying and then, ugh. And then all of a sudden I got this huge download of exactly what I want my next memoir to be. I found the title, I found the purpose, and as soon as I got in the car, I left myself this five minute long rambling voice note because it's like, it just

Jenni:

there

Steph:

downloaded, dropped in. Oh my God. I know. Like

Jenni:

I get

Steph:

it. This is magic.

Jenni:

I mean, that's how this book came in was during the, the sustainable solopreneur was during a breath work session. And you know, it's funny, when I work with people, they're always like, well, you're intuitive and I'm not. I actually believe everybody is intuitive, but we're in survival mode for so much of the time and we're really. Clenched. I mean, it's why when all of a sudden you're yawning and then you're crying, your body's like releasing its protection for a second. Yes. And so then it's like zoom. I mean, it's like right there. Like that's what happened with the council. The idea came in, I opened it up the next day. It's a$1,500 a month program. I had two people signed up within 24 hours. It was bizarre, right? It wasn't hard. It was clear. And I think this is like one of the most powerful tools we have in our lives that we've just been taught. I mean, we've been taught it's dangerous because personal power. It's a problem for the way our power structures are set up in society. I don't think it's a problem. Problem to the people who want the structures maintained. Correct. And so I think this is like part of my next body of work and the stuff I'm most interested in doing is it is so fascinating to sit down with someone and they'll go, oh well I just like have these dreams. And I'm like, can you tell me about them? And then it's like, it's all right. There it is. All right there. Like, you already know, you know?

Steph:

Well, you already know. We are, we are wired to dismiss our knowing though. Yes. And so that's why I just keep saying the word, remember, like, I feel like we forget. We remember. We forget. We remember. And, and slowly over time the forgetting becomes. Smaller and, and farther away, and then you just remember

Jenni:

well and stuff. You know, the word remember is remembering. It's like putting yourself back together. It's integration stop. And so I'm, you see in the book, I do a lot of like word study. I'm obsessed with it. Like intention is actually was from pulling back a bow and arrow, like it's from tension on the bow to shoot the arrow at the target. And so when you think about all these words together, oh my gosh. It's like, oh, we've been, do like, this makes all the sense in the world, but re remembering, putting all your parts back together. You know, like, like it's like a reconvening. And so. Oh yeah. It's so, it's so good. But I think my hope with this book too is that it kind of wakes up that a little bit for people. Like I often see in, when I get visions of things, I'm like, I see me going, wake up, wake up, wake up. Right? And I think that's probably what you do too. A lot of the women I get along with, that's our work.'cause just like,

Steph:

right.

Jenni:

Do you remember? I remember, come on over here, let's talk about it. And if you are then empowered to go out and do this in a different way. That's how things change, you know? Which is the whole point for me at least.

Steph:

Yes. That's how things change because it's like, I have two daughters and I want. Life to be different for them. And yes, my eldest daughter is a, she is a fucking eldest daughter. I mean, she is going to graduate college a year early and go to law school and she is like on a damn mission, right?

Jenni:

Yeah.

Steph:

And um, and I'm like, I support that path and if you decide that there needs to be a pause, I support that path. Like, yeah. And I'm like, okay, you wanna take a full caseload right now? You may, and how are you taking care of yourself? Are you sleeping? Are you eating and drinking? Are you moving your body? Are you going to therapy every week? Are you spending time with friends? Because that's the only way that as your mom, I will sign off on you taking 18 credits right now. Yes. You know,

Jenni:

it makes total sense. I mean, I have a three-year-old who's a firecracker, right? She's just the reminder every day of like, oh, this is what it looks like when one is unrestrained and. What a great example to have

Steph:

while

Jenni:

I'm the wildness working on these projects. You know? So it, yeah. I would love to hear, will you tell me, you know, since you feel like you're in this unsustainable moment mm-hmm. Um, or I think it's like passing, I think you're seeing it now, right?

Steph:

Yes. I'm seeing it, so I feel like I can see, and even like. Okay. Okay. The next four weeks pretty pretty jammed. I did that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But I have some plans for how to approach it differently. I have some tools and then I know when I get to December hibernation, there's going to be a pause, there's going to be a reset. And so as I'm looking into the new year, I'm doing it not with this. Urgency, this freneticness. Mm-hmm. It's, it's thoughtful and I'm stopping and like, what, what is my favorite thing that I'm doing right now? Like right now, my favorite thing? Well, I, I love my book. This is the problem I love. I'm like, no, I love my shows.

Jenni:

Like I

Steph:

love, I love, I love all my babies. I'm Mother Hubbard and this cupboard is, is awesome. Yes. But what, when I think about the workshops I'm doing, I'm doing the artist's way for midlife women. Mm-hmm. It, it is like the juiciest most, I mean, talk about like the downloads that like it is one giant portal. It is.

Jenni:

Mm-hmm.

Steph:

Glorious. And I'm like, maybe I focus on that. And other things move to the background a little bit. Right? Like it's,

Jenni:

you get to lean in. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about composting lately too, which is like a funny thing to say, but you know, every time I pull a card from an Oracle deck, it's always like fertile void, fertile void. I'm like, okay. Got it. Thank you. I got it. I hear you. And so I've been thinking a lot about, you know, I too have like a lot of it's why when you told me everything you were doing, I was like, of course.'cause I'm also doing a million things. Mm-hmm. But there is this moment where something becomes ready for compost and Yes it is. So, it's so hard to release those things, I think. Right. And I worry so much about the judgment of the other people, and yet when I release those things and make space. All of a sudden there's space for the next thing that's supposed to come through, right? Yes. So I think when you're someone like you are, I are, we're just expanding all the time. You can't take it all with you. And it's like a blessing and a curse, you know? It's both.

Steph:

Well, and then I think about what you said about the cyclical nature, because I'm like. You know what? This podcast that I'm doing that I love right now, it can have an off season while something else has its season. Yeah, I can be cyclical with my work. This is a stage when I'm focused on the big spring show, and then when that's done, I can let that rest. I don't have to do a fall one. I can just let that rest. It's like if I wanna do all these things. I need to let them have their seasons where they do naturally, like they're going to have a fall in a winter. The leaves are going to get brittle and fall off the trees and that's okay.

Jenni:

They'll be pruned back. Right? I mean, it's like the whole thing. I have a whiteboard on my wall where I write out for the next six months. I put different projects. Yeah, that's right. You have one too. We saw this, but last time we talked, but it's like I have to put them in their place so I know where to focus my energy because. Fragmented energy, I think is actually also a survival mechanism. It's a way we've doled ourselves, right? Because we're like,

Steph:

yes, it's a survival mechanism and it's also our silent killer. Like it is. Like it is not a good thing. It is not. And with an A DH ADHD brain, I'm like, well, I can hope hyperfocused. That's amazing. I'm just an idea machine. That's amazing. But if I am like. There's a path to burnout that is a direct result of me being able to do all these different things, and that's where you need to have the pause, you know?

Jenni:

And the intention. Yeah, absolutely. It's like I talk about, okay, what are the priorities of this season? What are the values for this? Like literally this season, right? Right. And how do we anchor into that? And then we look at your projects and go, okay, which of these apply right now and which don't,

Steph:

right?

Jenni:

Almost everybody I work with is neurodivergent in some way, although I'm always like divergent from what? Like I,

Steph:

I know.

Jenni:

Okay. Anyway, that's a different topic. But like, you know, it, there is a little bit of discernment that I think is a muscle of like. Those projects are gonna have their time. I mean, this book was originally an ebook that I sort of drafted out like five years ago and then left and then came back to, so like there's an element of trust in it, I think. But the, those core questions of what needs to happen right now, how do I care for myself right now? That's one of the questions I have people ask during their pause is, is this a capacity match? What

Steph:

this

Jenni:

reason, you know, um, not a

Steph:

capacity match. Is this a capacity match? This, if you take nothing else, ask yourself this question. Is this a capacity match? My daughter and I had family therapy. We do this every couple weeks and we both have a DHD and executive functioning. We need a little support. So our therapist is recommending, and she recommended it for my daughter, but I'm like, oh, I'm so doing that.'cause my planner, it's, it's very a beautiful mind coded. It looks. It's a little insane.

Jenni:

I would show you mine as well. Same. Same thing gets

Steph:

and, and I love it. I love it. But she's talking about like, you need a different color pen or marker for every subject. And you draw a little box next to each item on your list that's color coded and the box is red, yellow, or green based on the urgency. Of when this needs to get completed. And I could see my kid, it's like, oh my gosh, the dopamine is being released with all these, like the colors and the systems and, and I'm like, this is, this is a great, this is a great tool for,

Jenni:

for both of us. I love that so much. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that so much. I just think prioritization is a different thing, right? Like, I've coached men before and it's just a different conversation. So, um, you know, I bet, and I think also saying like in midlife or when you have young kids or whatever you're going through where there's a squeeze. Capacity isn't just about hours. Capacity is also about emotional bandwidth. And so that's why I say is it a capacity match? Like. Let's put all those things on here and look at what's actually doable right now. What's important right now? I mean, it's a different thing with the trust that eventually your capacity will expand again, because that's how it works. It could expand, squeeze,

Steph:

is that the word you used? I love that. Like ask yourself like, when are we going through a squeeze and, and I would argue that. Certain stages of life, whether like new motherhood or perimenopause, like you're in a squeeze. You might not have signed up for it, but you're in one. Mm-hmm. And one of the things that I do in my daily journaling that I stumbled, I just made it up a couple years ago. I make like a little quadrant, so I, I make my page into a lowercase t and then at the end of the day, I write down everything I did. And the top left is my body. Right. And that might be exercise, or it might be I got a massage, or it might be I took my supplements or I drank magnesium. And then next door to it is, what did I do for my spirit and my heart? And it might be therapy, it might be I called my mom, it might be coffee with a best friend. It might be I watched TV by myself. And then the, the lower left is career and purpose. What did I get done off of my work list? And then the last one is. Is our home. And it's, it like interpreted incorrectly. It could be like a tool of perfectionism, but it's more of an opportunity for me to reflect like where has my time and energy gone? And some of those are about like buckets that I filled. Like did I, did I not put anything in that top right one because that's something I need to pay attention to,

Jenni:

you know? Yes. And when you're in a squeeze, there's di you may need more of your energy going to the body, right? More of your energy going to your spirit. And I think. That's just something we've not been taught to do is to ask the question of like, not how does it look from the outside, but how does it feel for me right now? Right, right. And there's a lot of grief in those two. I just wanna say that out loud, that like it's not pretty to be in this squeeze. It's not.

Steph:

Right.

Jenni:

Like I said, I wouldn't wish it for anybody, but it's also, I think at some point everybody will go through one. It's

Steph:

going, going, it's going to happen.

Jenni:

There's no way to avoid it, whether

Steph:

it's grief or health or parenthood or, or a disaster.

Jenni:

Yes.

Steph:

Um,

Jenni:

yeah, I once program and so what are you

Steph:

setting yourself up for?

Jenni:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I once did a group program with people who were, I called it adapt, so they were doing something where they needed to adapt their business, so they were. New parents, chronic illness, deep grief, um, or mental health struggles. And it was the most transformative program because mostly it was just a bunch of people going, oh, you save me too. Yeah. And we mostly came to the conclusion of. There's a maximum and a minimum, and right now you can just do the minimum in your work and that is fine, but it was like we all needed to say that out loud.

Steph:

And how, and, and you made the right container. Mm-hmm. You created a container for this work to happen and I think sometimes it's like, what container have you walked into? Is this the door? Is this the room you wanted to walk into? Or might a different container be appropriate for you? Yes. Agree. Oh my God. I could literally talk to you all day. And I just wanna say with absolute certainty, our work together is not done great. Absolutely not. Um, oh my gosh. I like seriously have full body goosebumps and this is just, this is the good stuff and I want everyone to be like just. Paying attention, like just thank you. Take it in. Yeah. Um, I will put so many links in the show notes, but will you tell listeners where they can find you?

Jenni:

Yeah. Um, so mostly you can find my website, jenny gritters.com. Um, I am on Instagram and on LinkedIn. Fairly regularly. Sometimes I decide I need a break, but most of the time I'm there. So at Jenny Grid's or Jenny grid's on LinkedIn and then I have a newsletter of the same name, the Sustainable Solopreneur. It's actually kind of what the book grew out of. So every Monday you get essays and I've been recently dropping visualizations on Friday too. So kind of ways to start to like play with your intuition. Um, amazing. You'll see pictures will come into your head kind of like. Almost like side door options to help you build a business strategy that feels actually aligned for you. Um, and then obviously you can get the book on Amazon, wherever you wanna find it. Um, I'm also doing some direct sales if you don't wanna support Amazon on my website, so jenny gr.com, the book. So we'll put all those in there

Steph:

up, all of those in the show notes. So I think a lot of people are gonna wanna know how they can work with you and learn from you. And thank you. Thank you for being a lantern bearer.

Jenni:

Thank you for having me here. I mean, kindred spirits. I just, I feel like our work is Yeah. Working right alongside each other. And that's the vision I get a lot is sort of fellow queens looking at each other and going YouTube. Yep. Okay. Here we go. You know? Um, so good. Yeah. And there are more of us than ever before. So, um, consider yourself, uh, nominated to join. If you're listening,

Steph:

absolutely.

Jenni:

Join us. Yeah. Eldest daughter slash queens.

Steph:

Mm-hmm.

Jenni:

Yep. Mm-hmm. I love it so much. Thank you, Steph.

Steph:

Thanks, Jenny.

Thanks for being here. Together, we're going to make midlife neurodivergence less of a mystery.