Endocrine Disruptors at Perimenopause and Beyond: What Women Need to Know

This week's episode features a conversation with Rachel Lincoln Sarnoff, environmentalist and journalist, about endocrine disruptors and women's health. 

• Practical tips for reducing toxins: Rachel keeps it real—she shares information  without making you panic or feel overwhelmed. The goal is to be informed, not freaked out! 

• Cleaner cleaning supplies: Chemicals in everyday cleaners can be harmful; while there are a number of safer, non-toxic products on the market, don't forget about a return to vinegar and baking soda to keep your house clean, safely! 

• Easy swaps to cut down on toxins: Don’t microwave or store hot food in plastic—use glass or even just a bowl with a plate on top. For lunches, try wax paper bags instead of plastic. Other tips: Take your shoes off when you come home, and consider shopping at thrift stores—seriously!

• What exactly are endocrine disruptors? Endocrine disruptors are sneaky chemicals that mess with your hormones. Earlier puberty and earlier perimenopause are concerning, and endocrine disruptors could be a contributing factor. Think: hormones in factory-farmed milk. Also, check out the Skin Deep database below for product safety information.

• Advocating for our health: Rachel and I dive into inaccurate perceptions of perimenopause versus menopause, patriarchy and its impact on women's health, and what might happen if men experienced "manopause." 

• Vote, and also, vote with your wallet: Rachel shares one of the most important things we can do to advocate for cleaner living and a healthier planet: Vote for better people. She also reminds us that as consumers, we have more power than we may think simply through the messages we send by the types of products we choose to buy.

• Positive change is happening! Rachel shares resources on how to stay informed, and most importantly, she reminds us that there really are good things happening for the climate and for us as informed consumers. 

Resources:
Environmental Working Group website
Skin Deep Database
Sister District Project
The Good Newsletter
Environmental Voter Project

Follow Steph on Substack at The Reclamation Era and on IG @stephsprenger

About Rachel:

Rachel Lincoln Sarnoff swapped sustainability tips with Jane Goodall, Jenna Elfman, and King Charles lll, among others. A former journalist, two-time TEDx speaker, and podcast host, Rachel was interviewed on the “Today” show and published in the Washington Post.

Rachel’s career as an environmentalist (including founding the now-defunct EcoStiletto and Mommy Greenest websites) informs her podcast series, climate content consulting, and the Good Newsletter (since 2008). She holds an MA in journalism (USC) and an MFA in fiction (Pacific University), lectures through the

Transcript

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Welcome back to the Paranormal Podcast. Today I have a conversation with Rachel Lincoln Sarnoff, who is an environmentalist and a journalist, and she has such helpful information We speak primarily about endocrine disruptors, particularly through the lens of being a perimenopausal or menopausal woman, and. She gives us takeaways without scaring us, and I think that's what's most helpful about Rachel is she doesn't want anyone to listen to this episode and panic that they are flooded with toxins and everything is terrible. And what's the point of even trying? I love this conversation because I think. Women, when we start talking about like the chemicals in our homes, in our makeup and in the air and all these things, there's this fine line of being informed and wanting to make healthy decisions and then sliding into overwhelm and despair. And so Rachel has really practical things that we can all do to. Help with our own, hormone health by avoiding endocrine disruptors. She's gonna walk us through it, but she's not gonna scare you. And I think that's amazing. So, Rachel's career as an environmentalist, informs her podcast series, her climate content consulting. And the good newsletter that she's been writing since 2008. She holds an MA in journalism and an MFA in fiction lectures through the Center for Undergraduate Environmental Leadership at UCSB, her alma mater, and she supports emerging writers. She has also swapped sustainability tips with. Oh, you know Jane Goodall, Jenna Elman, and King Charles ii to name a few, a former journalist two times, TEDx speaker and podcast host. Rachel was interviewed on the Today Show and published in the Washington Post. I think you're gonna love this conversation, and I was so excited to talk with her that basically like there's no preamble. I am about to just drop you into this conversation where I'd been complaining about a headache and Rachel is like here to help. So. Without further ado, um, welcome back to the Paranormal Podcast, and here I am chatting with Rachel Lincoln Sarnoff. Enjoy. One of my issues and I think I'm not alone in this, like, you know, I'm at midlife, I'm 47, I'm perimenopausal, but I also am a full-time single mom. Yeah. I had a very high conflict divorce and it's been one of those things where it's like, is this caused by this or that? Is it stress? Yeah. Is it parenting? Is it hormones? Is it that, so parsing through the threads. I think is one of the most challenging things about this stage of life. Oh, a hundred percent. But on the other hand, you know, like we have to look at everything holistically because nothing exists in a vacuum. Right. So. Right. It's not like you can just pull one thing out and adjust it. Like you have to adjust all the things, you know, it's like a big web. Mm-hmm. well, okay, headaches, let's talk about that. So have they increased for you? In this time of life? Yes. Because I'm a headache sufferer and I have Are you, do you have I have wisdom on that. You have wisdom on that? Okay. So I have always suffered from headaches. I don't actually remember not having headaches. Like I had headaches as a very young child often. Wow. And, um, migraines and especially when I used to do ballet, which I didn't do for very long. It was only a few years. But, um, I would come back with the worst headaches and I found. And we talked about headbands. I found that if my hair, my head, if I had something on my head or my hair was pulled back, it, it was one of the factors that either caused or exacerbated them. So I don't know about that. That's one thing. But the other is, um, they for sure got worse as I moved, like, into, you know, active perimenopause. And I went through menopause really early. So I'm 55 and I finished menopause. I finished, I, I am post-menopausal as of, I think I was 47 or maybe 48. So I started at like early, I started at basically early forties and then, you know, was done before I was 50. So, um, which is really unusual. We can talk a little bit about, about that too. But, um, anyway, I found that headaches got way worse. Prescription medicine was the only thing that worked for me. And now post. Menopausal. I rarely get them. It's really weird. This is one of the things that I'll be really excited to talk to you about I feel like everyone says we were so confused about menopause. We thought, we thought menopause was like, I remember my mom like opening the freezer and standing in front of the That wasn't, yeah, she wasn't at menopause yet. It was perimenopause. Yes. And so we, I think there was just mass confusion. Yeah. And I remember when someone said to me, you know, perimenopause is supposed to be worse, like menopause. And then I think it was Dr. Jolene Brighton I had on the podcast who was talking about like menopause is. It's, it's a day. It's like, I have bled for the last time. Yes. I have hit menopause. So I'm really curious, since you've already, you've been through the spectrum, for you to share with us a little bit about the differences, like what perimenopause was like for you and what has shifted after. Yeah. I have a close friend who has had migraines that are debilitating for over a decade, and they are very related to her menstrual cycle. And the big question is, when you hit menopause, is this going to go away or not? So yes. A hundred percent. I mean, everyone is different and I am not a doctor, so let's just Yes. I that out there, I was about to issue the disclaimer and obviously Rachel, you can only speak to your experience. Yes. But I do find that sometimes it's nice to be like, I'm a beacon from the other side. Like, yes, I can't speak to everyone's experiences, but let me give you a little bit of hope. So yes, neither of us are doctors. Doctors menopause now. Okay. Okay, great. Um, yes. So from the other side. Yeah. So it's funny because, you know, I've been so clued into like the environmental movement for so long. I mean, I think I kind of always was clued to it because of the way that I was raised, but of kind of officially like by when I was about 30. Um, so for a really long time. And a lot of that conversation was about endocrine disruptors in the environment. And so I was really like, you know when you're pregnant and all you see are pregnant ladies, like, so for me, I was constantly looking and looking at myself and what was I experiencing And I was always telling my, like, my good girlfriends are, like, most of them I met when I was, you know, a kid and they're still my best friends. Oh, okay. And so I would be like, and we have our little text chain, it's called Homies. And I was like, you guys, or you ladies, um, perimenopause. And this is like when we were all in our early thirties and they were like, what the heck are you talking about? You know, like, this is not a reality for me. I'm literally still thinking about like. When I first got my period, you know what I mean? Right. And maybe not even done having babies yet, right. Like yeah. I was like, yeah, exactly. I was like, we're, you know, we're changing. Also, I had my babies really young compared to my friends. So I had my third when most of my friends were having their first, so I had my first at 28 and my third at, um, 36. Um, I was 28 and 33. And I think it's so interesting that we think now about 28 for giving birth as being really young. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, a lot of my friends we're still, we're starting families and they're very late thirties and some of them even having babies at age 40. Right. Yeah. So it is, it is a strange thing when you're thinking about, well, technically we're in the perimenopause era, but some people are still pregnant or breastfeeding or whatever. Yeah. So, so you had wrapped it up by, okay, what did you say, 36 was your last baby? Yeah. Okay. Maybe. Yeah. But you know, I was talking about the stuff and my friends were like, this is not, this is, you're crazy. You know? And I was like, no, there are shifts happening. If you pay attention to your body, there are shifts definitely happening. Um, and one of them for me was, you know, really having to deal with the headache situation. Um, and interestingly enough, my middle daughter, so I have two daughters and my middle daughter, um, gets migraines. I didn't grow up with a mother, so I'm not like entirely sure what the situation was. You know, maternal on that side. My dad had, my dad had always had really bad headaches. Um, but my daughter has them. And so luckily, like she has me to kind of, you know, give her instruction and like help her with some of the things that can, that helped me. I mean, prescription medicine for one, and then all of the smaller pieces. I'm always like, take your hair on that ponytail and take your necklaces off. You know, even a light necklace, I like, this is one pearl, so it's not heavy, but the slight pressure on the back of my neck can feel when I feel like one's coming on can feel like it is. Wow. Exacerbating. It isn't that crazy? Like the princess and the pea kind of, or the canary in the coal mine, like your body is so hyper attuned to what's coming. That, that is interesting. So, so you said that when you, when you got into the perimenopause territory, headaches got worse for you. Yeah, definitely. Even though you'd already had them for your whole life. So yeah, definitely the hormonal shifts made it worse. Yes. And also I became very attuned to the connection between, um, headaches and alcohol. So, um, you know, it really, it's no joke, especially as you get further into and then in menopause or towards, and then in menopause. It is no joke. And I remember my aunt telling me, she was like, I think I'm just allergic to alcohol, you know? And I was like, that's impossible.'cause you've had it for most of your life. How could you all of a sudden develop an allergy? But it is so true. Whatever, I don't even know what the connection is, like, whether it's estrogen related or whatever, but I am pretty much unable to process anything but like super clean, meaning like a very clean tequila or vodka, like a clear, clear liquid. Mm-hmm. Alcohol. Like I, I had one kombucha that's like, people drink kombucha. Like you, it's practically a health food for goodness sake. It's totally, and side note, I, when those first came out, those alcoholic kombuchas, I know this woman who. Didn't read the fine print and thought they were non-alcoholic. And she was like, she was like coming home from, uh, from tennis and she'd like pound a couple of, she was like, why do I feel so loopy? Anyway, yeah, I had one piano that that last night and I had a headache this morning. And it's like, and it's just not worth it. I, as my friends and I, this is our little circle around the fire, right. The, the, the homies thread. Right. That was when I was like, wait, all of you were on estrogen? But me, I'm like, why am I the last to know? But these are the things we talk about. And it's like, ladies night and my twenties and Yeah, a little bit in my thirties, it was like red wine, like go to someone's house. Mm-hmm. Someone makes dinner, we all bring food and we drink a bottle of red wine. Mm-hmm. And I don't remember the last time I had red wine because of the, because of the headaches. Well, I had like an organic soil tested, you know, one of those companies that makes it super clean. I do better with that, but I'm mostly at this point right now where I'm like, the recovery from having too many drinks is not worth it. Like, I will lose, it's not worth it. The day of my life, I don't wanna do that. It doesn't feel good. It's totally not worth it. However, may I recommend a really good tequila, yes. No, I mean, like, come on. Moderation. Yes, we, yeah., Again, it's like very few things are worth a headache or a bad night of sleep to me at this age. I don't want to do that. I feel like I'm trying to preserve this equilibrium. Like it is a very delicate ecosystem in here. Yes. Right. I feel like, and I've got, you know, my Apple watch tells me how much deep sleep I got and it tells me when to stand up and it mon like I have my continuous glucose monitor on. Um, yeah.'cause I have developed insulin resistance as I hit perimenopause. Interesting. And I have a family history of diabetes, but I'm also in super clean living Colorado, where I've been very tuned into nutrition for so long. And so that was one of this, the markers for me when I was like. Why am I gaining weight? I'm doing everything the same and I don't wanna make everything about weight. But also I think that women our age feel a sense of shame if we do say, wow. Mm-hmm. I've gained 20 pounds and I don't want to like, yeah, like I think there's a lot of pressure that we are supposed to just be like body positivity, like just love the body you're in and, and it's like, that to me is one of the canaries in the coal mine of perimenopause. Like, wow, I've put on weight for what seems to be an indiscernible reason than looking at blood work. It's like, well, your fasting glucose is not the same as it was three years ago. There's something happening here, but I, but again, back to that delicate ecosystem, I think as women when we're dealing with, with aging, with shifting hormones, and especially if you are one of those people who's a little more of a. Permeable membrane. We are super sensitive to our environments, whether it's a headband, a necklace, or something we're drinking or eating. So, um, I'm excited for you to shed a little bit of light on some of the factors that might disrupt our bodies and our hormonal balance at this time of life. Tell our listeners first of all a little bit about your career and your areas of expertise and kind of how you came to do what you're currently doing. Yeah, sure. It's actually, it's funny'cause when I speak like, you know, to students or whatever, I always say that my career was like this. Me too. You know, and honestly, I, I mean this is a generalization, but I would say. Most women that I talk to will tell you that not necessarily most men and not necessarily all women. Sure. But you know, like I was 28 and had a baby that shifted my career and you know, like things, so things changed. But basically I, was a journalist, was an editor, had a baby, um, you know, had a, had to figure that out. Was freelancing, doing pr, ended up starting my own PR company, had another baby. And so then, you know, owning your own schedule becomes more and more, um, which side note also like to younger, um, listeners and people when I talk to them, like the younger women who are like, I just wanna work in an office. Like, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm so. Tired of working in my home office. And I always say to them, okay, but when you have kids, you will, like, you don't even know how valuable that opportunity is. You know, that's something that I, when I was working in-house, um, in those early days, negotiated like against my salary for a time, I'd be like, I'll take$10,000 left less if you let me work four hours a day from home instead of in the office. So. See tangential. Yes. No, but I'm with you. And, and I think that is relatable and I also, there's a lot of really problematic aspects of that that we could unpack. But yeah, that's just the leveraging of your own sanity and work life balance. Like pay me less. Just let me live a life where I don't feel like I'm absolutely losing it. Ugh. Okay. So you, right, so you were a little bit more in charge of your own schedule by the time you Yeah. That was just something I prioritized. Mm-hmm. And that was part of the reason I started my own company. So I was doing, um, I was doing pr, which is, you know, is the flip side of journalism, right? Yeah. It's really, you know, you're basically telling stories on both sides of that coin. And that's something that I've always done. Um, and I've always been drawn to stories that were about a better way to do things. So a better way to manufacture products, things that were better for people, better for planet. Like those things always drew me, my dad. I don't know. My, I grew up with a dad who taught Native American studies at UCLA and I grew up, you know, in the garden, like thanking the plants when I right harvested them. And all those things were like really kind of like hippie, whatever. But it puts you in this frame that's a little more perhaps, I think, questioning of sort of the standard of product delivery and marketing to people like me. So anyway, so I, that was part of what I was really interested in. So I started a company to do more of that on the PR side, and I ended up, um, representing this really cool toy game manufacturer that did everything with like recycled cardboard and like non-toxic inks. And it, and I had little kids at the time, so I was super into it. And her neighbor in the suite was this organization called Healthy Child, healthy World, which I had never heard of. At that point, I was nine months pregnant with my third child and she was like, you need to talk to the executive director of this organization. And I was there looking for pr. I was like, great. So I went into their office, I like waddled in, and I met with this guy, um, whose name is Christopher Gavigan, and he was the executive director of that organization at the time. And I really thought that I, you know, having grown up kind of this hippies way, I thought I knew a lot about like a natural lifestyle, but I did not know anything about, you know, VO season and paint and offgassing from carpet and the cleaners that I was using in my home. Like, and I had two little kids, you know, plus like organic food, all that stuff. So I sat in his office for like 90 minutes. And he basically blew my mind. Yeah. And then I walled out of there and he was like, listen, when you, when you have your baby come back and we'd love to, you know, like, like, you know, have you work with us. And so I did. Um, and that was kind of like, that experience really changed my life. It, it, it was obviously part of what I'd been doing, but it became my whole focus. So my whole focus became really linked to this mission of Healthy Child, healthy World, which is about helping parents and caregivers understand the small shifts that they could make, that they personally had responsibility for, that would create healthier environments for their children. Um, and I ended up as the executive director of that organization, Christopher went off to found the Honest company with, with Jessica Alba. Oh my goodness. Wow. He is amazing. Um, so he did that. I ended up as the ed and then. You know, different, right? This thing happens again with your life. And I, um, ended up as the ED of a small, um, another nonprofit called The Five Gyres Institute, which worked on plastic pollution. So, you know, there's a lot of organizations working on plastic pollution. What five Gyres did was the scientific studies that kind of helped shift policy and consumer behavior around plastic. So a good example of that is they were the first to discover plastic microbeads in the Great Lakes. In, in that basically led to the plastic microbead ban that President Obama signed into law in 2015. So that was like, I think two years before I came on as ed. Um, but that again was like a, you know, mind blowing experience. I didn't know about phthalates in plastic and how they affected our hormones and all of these different things. So those two experiences kind of, um, led me to what I'm doing now because, oh, well actually before that I started working on something called extended Producer Responsibility legislation, which is like if you make a plastic bottle, you have to, if you have EPR legislation in your state, you have, or in your country depending the US state, you have to pay for the cleanup of that bottle. And so what that means is it incentivizes producers to Sure build recycled content into their production and to use less toxic materials. So that was a lot of talking to get you to where I am now, which is basically transitioning the consumer product supply chain into a more sustainable, way of manufacturing and distributing and caring for the end of life of products. So that's my short story. I'm eager to hear kind of what you've learned, you know? Yes. There's the professional aspect, but I can imagine that a lot of this you've brought into your own life, your own family, your own home, your own body. Yeah. Can you, can you kind of give us some of the highlights of how the, the knowledge that you have and the work you've done has made an impact in your life? Yeah. Um, yeah. It is, it's been interesting to be in this space for now over 20 years because, um. You know, it shifted a lot. So initially, especially when I was involved, there was a lot of like, there was a lot of conversation around Vote with, vote with your wallet, right? Mm-hmm. You know, where we as consumers make the choices that shift the greater systems that, that regulate what we do and buy. Um, and that led to, like, I started a website called Mommy Greenest and Ecos Stiletto. Those are both gained directly at women and Moms. Mm-hmm. Um, to help them kind of make these decisions around like what we control, which is really like women control 85 cents of every dollar spent in this country. And so we do have a lot of control in terms of those types of things. Um, I did some projects around like raising awareness, um, in terms of fashion and its impact, um, encouraging women to buy like. Like thrift and swap for their clothes rather than buying new, which is something I've now been doing for over 20 years and like 95% of my closet is all, is basically all secondhand or pre loved is the amazing word that I like. Is that your vibe too? Yeah. My girls and I love thrifting. This is, um, this is from Goodwill, uh, month ago when my best friend and I did a Goodwill run. Nice. So. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. My, yes. My, my my, I'm a big Crossroads fan. I don't know if you have Crossroads where you are, but Yeah. Anyway, so did a lot of like awareness building on that, and my girls especially grew up, you know, doing that with me. Like you, like it's fun for us to go to the thrift store and, you know, that's like our, we don't really go to the mall, you know? Mm-hmm. We would like go to a thrift store instead of that. Um, and then making decisions about like what comes into our home in terms of. How we clean. Um, I've always used for, you know, since that conversation with Christopher, I've used, uh, you know, non-toxic products typically purchased from a health food store or made with like vinegar and water. Yeah. Um, you know, lemon juice, baking soda, those things that people have been using to clean their homes for, you know, like a hundred years. Um, before, before companies started making a ton of money on marketing, like how dirty your house is to you and, and what you need to do with chemicals to clean it. Which honestly, if you look at like air quality, you, you might be making your home more dirty with some of those chemicals than actually not. So yeah, I think that was probably, I mean, again, I'm in Colorado, so we are, we are crunchy people here and so Crunchy. Yeah. You know, the Mrs. Meyers and the, you know, ordering everything from Grove, so it's like seventh generation or this and that, or I love doing the baking soda vinegar. Cleaners and maybe putting a few drops of an essential oil or something. Yeah. And, and like it cleans the shower better than anything. And having little kids here, that was right on the cusp of learning how to do cleaner clean, essentially. Right. And so I feel like that's something that at this moment in time people are familiar with. Like, there are different options for cleaning supplies out there. Like our eyes are kind of open to that. But I also suspect that's probably just the tip of the iceberg. Yeah. I mean, in terms of what you bring into your home, it's actually pretty impactful. Like, um, your air quality and, the toxicity of, you know, the like s. Some of those products, which I wouldn't name. Like they, they really can't, they're linked to asthma, they're linked to, you know, like there's a lot of stuff. So it is pretty impactful. Okay. That's helpful to know. So like, if you are someone that's already kind of on that train, don't diminish that. Like that you are doing like it's worth it. Like Yeah. The, the effect is worth it. Oh, a hundred percent. And also like, really read your labels. That was something I talked, you know, like from in all my roles, mommy greenness down, um, you know, like really read your labels and look for, I call them red flags. So like. Fragrance is a red flag, for example, because fragrance is a catchall term that a manufacturer can use or a brand can use to not disclose certain ingredients on their labels. If they call them fragrance, then they can go in and a lot of those are endocrine disrupting like we talked about, you know, which means affecting your hormones. So leading us back to the conversation about perimenopause and menopause, um, you know, a lot of those are, those, those hormone disrupting chemicals, like phthalates for example, are typically in artificial fragrance, which you'll see on our label as either artificial fragrance or just fragrance. That sounds a little bit like when food labels, even health foods say natural flavors. I totally, I'm like, means nothing. Mm-hmm. Zero. Um, give us a crash course in what endocrine disruptors or hormone disruptors are. Yeah. Who doesn't know. Um, sure. So, hormones regulate everything in our bodies, right? They regulate, um, puberty, like in terms of reproductive, systems, puberty, all the way through menopause. Um, and so there are certain substances that are in products or in our environment that can affect those. And endocrine disruptors are one of'em. So, that basically means that they affect your body, right? So they can either make your body think that it has a certain hormone present that it might not have, or it can make it react to what it thinks is that hormone. So there's like, and again, I'm not a doctor, right? But, um, there are a lot of studies that show, for example, the hormones that have traditionally been used in milk production, especially factory farm to milk production, which is I think it's RBHT, it's on the label. Mm-hmm. Yep. That sounds right. Yeah. Those have been, linked to hormone disruption, so they might change the way that your hormones in your body and more importantly your children, like, especially your female children. Right? Yes. There's a lot of, and this, the challenge with this and this challenge, like is what I discovered with working at Healthy Child Healthy World, which, um, is so frustrating to me is, you know, there's like so many studies that show that. Puberty is happening earlier. Yeah. Um, perimenopause is happening earlier, you know, things associated with like there are higher levels of infertility. Like there's a lot of things that are associated with the way that our hormones are regulating our bodies that are changing really rapidly. And so there's a lot of studies that show those connections to certain potentially toxic chemicals in our world. I mean, I, so I have two daughters and I mean, that was a big thing for me. Like, we are not, like, we are not getting regular milk. Like I'm like, I don't care if the chicken is more expensive, I don't care. Like we are doing the hormone free stuff. We are doing the Yeah. Like that. That, to me it felt like one of the few things that I could control and Yeah. And I still didn't really even know if that was gonna be enough. And it's interesting'cause I think those of us raising daughters who might be tuned in too. That, that awareness of different foods especially that could be impactful. I think we, we raise up the daughters and then we sort of forget that we still have bodies that are still very much controlled by the puppet master of our hormones. Yeah. And we need to continue to practice that care for ourselves. Yeah. And our sons, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, like, you know, all, all of our children and ourselves. Um, yeah. I mean, so I've been reporting on this, the first time was 2018, so it was like, it was been quite a long time, right? Mm-hmm. And at that point, 98% of Americans tested positive for endocrine disrupting chemicals like BPA, phthalates, PCBs, and PFAS. So the, like, that was in 2018. Um, those numbers haven't changed so much, but that's a hu that's everyone. We're all affected. So we can, I think the most important thing to remember, and I ha like, I talked to a lot of people who are so scared right now, you know, and that there's, and I just don't want that to be right. It's like, what can I eat, take away, eat? What can I wear? What can I bring into this? And, and I think you're right, you that can shut people down to the point where it shut people down where this is so overwhelming. I can't do it perfectly, so I'm not even gonna try. And, and that's, yeah, that's just really, that's not what I want people to take away from anything that I ever say, you know, in any, anywhere. And that was Mommy Greenes. That was the whole vibe over there too. But, um, yeah. Is, you know, there are things that we can do and there are, so, like EWG Environmental Working Group is a fantastic resource. EWG publishes every year the, um, journey dozen, which are like the, yeah, 12 most, um, pesticide heavy. Fruits and vegetables on the market today. And usually strawberries are up there, blueberries are up there. Anything that's like fairly porous and soft is gonna be, and, and also is, you know, routinely sprayed is gonna be one of those. Um, but they also publish the clean 15 and that is right, the top 15 that like, mostly are pretty safe. And you know, some of, like, some of those would be, I think corn is on that list because you can pull off the layers or oranges'cause you can peel off the layers, things like that. Um, those are really good to know. It's also great to know that like if you are eating a pretty pesticide heavy diet, most studies show that if you eliminate those foods for, I think it's just three days. You can pretty much flush most of that out of your body. So like, when it comes to pesticides, for example, there are things that we, you know, that we can do similarly. Like we're talking about cleaning products earlier. You know, if you, you clean with safer cleaners, if you open your windows, you know, you end up with air quality inside your home. That's, you know, that's great. So there, it doesn't mean that we, yes, our world is changing, but it doesn't mean that we're doomed. You know, there are definitely things that we can do. I think that's a really helpful thing. Can you kind of break down some of the things that we can do for people who feel overwhelmed and would like to make some positive difference in, in their bodies and homes? Yeah. Um, basically like. We're talking about plastic, for example. So a really critical thing that's really easy to do is just don't store hot food or microwave in plastic, right? So if you can get, um, glass containers, I just take a bowl, like a regular bowl and stick like a, a, you know, a small plate on top of it to cover it and put that in the fridge. Um, so that's like, that's a pretty easy thing. There are, if you are packing lunches for your kids, there are wax paper bags instead of plastic bags. Um, those are a fairly easy and inexpensive choice. Um, and then when you're talking about like drinking water, you know, I think many people are worried about the water that's coming outta their tap. And so they buy plastic water bottles instead. And actually most of the studies show that the, especially the microplastic content in those plastic bottles is much higher. Mm-hmm. Um. Recognizing that we, you know, that our water system, is not, equitable, right? You know, still, um, the best choice if you can is to filter your tap water. Um, and if you could do that in a container that's not plastic, that's fantastic. Um, in terms of like personal care products, like, you know, beauty and lotions and things like that, it's so fascinating. I did revisit this stat, anticipating this conversation when I first started reporting on this. Um, when it came to personal care products, the us in the us, we ban 11 substances when I first started reporting on this. I thought it would've changed, but it hasn't the same. It's still 11 really. And in Europe it's 1700. Oh my god. 1700. So, you know, there's certain regulations in different states that do change the way that, what is allowed. And like in California where I live, for example, we just passed the Toxic Free Cosmetics Act and it was signed into law in 2020, and it's in effect as of this year. Um, so things like that do shift, because if you think about it, like California is a huge market. And so rather than have to formulate for California and then for Arizona, you probably are gonna formulate on that higher standard for everyone, right? That's gonna shift. Oh, that's, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. But um, when it comes to personal care, definitely read your labels as we talked about, look. For fragrance. Um, phthalate free. Paraben free, fragrance free. Um, those are good. As we said, those words, natural mean nothing. That's just a marketing term. Same with the word organic. Organic doesn't mean anything, but if you want something that by federal law has to, achieve certain standards of, of not not being made with pesticides, not being made with certain potentially toxic chemicals. That would be USDA certified organic. So if you see that seal, okay, you can be pretty safe to know. And similarly, there are like European seals that, um, that you can see, but those seals really do tell you something, the words. They really don't. Um, one thing that's really easy to do in addition to like cleaning with safer products., Is to take off your shoes when you come in the door. So a lot of cultures do this. Um, it's very much not a part of American culture necessarily, but um, you know, take off your shoes when you come in the door, it means you don't track in like. Pesticides and potentially lead. And like, you know, especially if you have like little kids crawling around on the floor, it's a really easy thing to do. Um, and then wash your hands when you come in, it just means that you're like limiting the amount of what is outside, inside your home. Also that's kind of a nice moment to take an intentional pause anyway. Like Yeah. How often during our day do we really stop and think I'm intentionally transitioning from being outside my home to back inside? Like, it's kind of a nice ritual that could also just help you with your Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it, you know, it's a, it's a losing battle when you have kids and teenagers, you know, like teenagers especially. Mm-hmm. I mean my, oh yes. You know, my son would like come through with, you know, fixed boys and. They're like, do we have to, you know? And so it became like, you don't wear shoes upstairs. You know, like we, like, let's be realist. We have to be realist about all this stuff. Right. You know? Right. We have to be realist. Um, but one thing I think is really interesting is there's so much conversation about PFAS, especially in the last like year, which really people did not talk about 10 years ago, five years ago even. Um, and that's, it's not super easy to avoid, but there's some like big things that are avoidable non-stick pans, fabrics that are basically like say stain resistant or wrinkle resistant, those are usually gonna be coated. Mm-hmm. Um, and then flame retardant, like mattresses choose, try to choose mattresses. Things that you sleep on, pillow that are not treated with flame retardants. Mm-hmm. Um, that also applies to like, if you have little kids, you know, pajamas. Um, pajamas. I don't know if this is still true, but when my kids were little pajamas were required if they were called pajamas. Yes. They were required to be treated with flame retardants. Mm-hmm. But if you got something called lounge wear Right. It was just like a difference name, then they didn't, but you had to look, you really do have to read the labels on those. Mm-hmm. So like short story, read your labels. Right. You know? Right. Yeah. When I got into my thirties and I was like, I want to start taking really well, I, I've always been a little vain about my skin. I'm like, I will get facials. I, I will spend money on skincare. I'll do all the things. I think that's when I started to hear about estrogen disruptors, like things that were going to mess with my estrogen levels. Yeah. And, and some of it I remember, you know, like Beauty Counter became a brand that people would go to, um. You started to hear more about safer beauty products or haircare or whatever. You know, the cl like my, my, uh, hairstylist, like the, she will only use a certain type of hair dye. Like it's just mm-hmm. You know, but then, but I think that there's still a lot of questions. Oh, same thing with food. Like, don't have soy, that's an endocrine disruptor. You start to hear all these things about things that women are not supposed to do for their hormones. And I do think it becomes very overwhelming and, and a little paralyzing. Yeah. So I think that's where, um, organizations that are really like science based come in. So I mentioned, uh, the environmental working group, EWG. Mm-hmm. They have a great, I'm not sure if you've ever looked at their Skindeep database. Um, so the Skindeep database is like. Pretty much every product on the market, they rate it. And so you can look and you can see like if, if it's red, I don't even look at it. You know, there's also an app so you can download it and like if you're in the market you can use it. Um, but the skin deep database is a great opportunity because not only does it show you if something has potentially toxic ingredients, chemical ingredients in it that. That's a, you know, those, it'll tell you what those are, but also where there's missing data. So sometimes they'll, something will be read because the, the manufacturer's just not disclosing. And for me, like non-disclosure is a non-starter. Right? Like, I just, I want, you know, I wanna know what's in your product. I'm gonna bring it into my fault. If you're fifth, then I'm not. Yeah. I can read between the lines Skin. Yeah. So Skin Deep is a great resource. That's like my first place to go. I'll put, I'll put all of this in the show notes too. Yeah. So people can easily click through to Yeah. So a couple things there like. Tofu, you know, soy, I've heard that too, and I did look into it, and you really would have to eat a tremendous amount. Right, right. Again, with like some fact-based organizations, um, is the idea that wearing, uh, that wearing clothes that we absorb all these toxic chemicals and they're, you know, they're like destroying. I mean, so I think that there's, there's like a couple of different pieces to that discussion. And first, full disclosure, I only shop at thrift stores, so, you know, like I'm not really your, you know, the target audience, but, but the first time you wash something, most of the things, except for what PFAS, which is like the coatings. So those are designed not to come up with water, but anything that would be residual in terms of like a dye, um, you know, those things are coming off of your clothes. Mm-hmm. Um, so they're not like gonna absorb them if you're wearing that next to your body. So flame retardants are, you know, caveat to that PFAS caveat to that. Right. But the, the bigger picture, like if you step back is like, what is the manufacturing of those products doing to A, the workers who are working in that supply chain to make that product and then B, you know, are basically our environment. So I think there is reason to avoid them, and I certainly do, but I just wanna, like, I think people who are really afraid, like they need to kind of do some research before jumping on that bandwagon, you know? That, that makes a lot of sense. And I, I do think so let's, let's talk kind of about what's at stake here, right? This is a little bit of a, a petulant temper tantrum, but it does make a person very angry that the powers that be are not looking out for us on this. Like it does. I mean, I've, I've talked to so many women about, just with our own hormonal health anyway, it's like you have to know the secret knock. You have to ask for this. You have to totally advocate, oh, you know about that because your friend's friend told you like, it's this underground network of do this. Don't eat that, do this, ask for this. Like, it's frustrating to think that like, if you want to live a healthy life or you want to feel good, whether we're talking about cleaner products or just understanding our bodies, that you are gonna be doing the heavy lifting, that there are not organizations that are regulated that are trying to make sure that you're not, you know, ingesting toxins. That is awful. That makes me angry. Like, and also mm-hmm. The pace of our modern, busy lives. It's like, my God, how much more do we have to juggle? We have to be detectives about Yeah. 14 things a day. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Um, you know, I worked on a lot of consumer advocacy campaigns, so that's like getting people to understand, vote with your wallet, whatever. Then I worked on legislation and that is, making sure that manufacturing is incentivized to do a better job. Um, and now I'm working with a, membership organization that's working with both brands and manufacturers in the consumer product supply chain. So I've seen it from like all different sides. Sure. And I would say the one thing that unites all of those. Is we have to vote for better people. We have to vote for better people. We have to vote for people who prioritize the things that we prioritize in terms of our environment and our health. And that, that is like full stop, end of story. That's where we as a people have dropped the ball. No question. So, um, obviously that's not that easy to research, right? A lot of people go back and forth. A lot of people have a lot of talking points and you know, it's like so confusing. And then as you said, like you gotta deal with your health and your family's health. Now you have to like research, you know who your representative is in Congress. Give a break. But there are organizations that are doing a really great job and I will name check a couple of them. Please do. So the environmental voter project, environmental voter.org, environmental voter project, I think it's called. So they, they are totally nonpartisan. They don't care, you know, whether you are a Democrat or Republican or independent voter, they don't care. All they do is they mobilize those voters who have indicated that they think climate is a priority. They mobilize and get them to the polls. That's it. Great and great impact because typically people who care about climate, care, about environment, and, you know, and this is like non-partisan, right? Then there's some great organizations like Sister District wonderful. So they look at the local races that can really determine how we move forward. You know, that means like, you know, your local representatives, like not in, not your, you know, like your state and local representatives, right? Yes. So those people, we have really forgotten about those races, I think as a community of, of voters, you know, so sister district, great one. Um, and then, it's not easy often to parse what a politician is saying, but I think that we all can do the research by looking at actually their policies and really drill down on that when we decide whether we're gonna vote for them or not, and we have to vote regardless of how we feel, you know? Yes. It's, it's so important. I think you're making some really important points, and I will put all these resources in the show notes for people when. I, I have no problem being highly political. This is my show, and I think that problem, I don't think I'm attracting a lot of, of, of MAGA listeners at this moment, but I think one of the things that was so impactful after the last, just horrifying election was you're hearing this focus of we simply must put more attention into these local races, into our, into the micro rather than, like, we cannot control, the macro is out of control right now. It's literally bulldozing itself to the ground as we speak, but don't forget about the things that are happening in your community on the smaller level. So I think that's a really important point that people likely would not make an association with anything having to do with, with like endocrine disruption or our bodies and our health, right? Like there's the layer of the environment, which is so deeply important, and there's this other layer, which is, and, and so to come back to that, what are the stakes for us? Like you've said there, there are a lot of. There are, there's a lot of data out there about perimenopause happening earlier. Puberty happening earlier. Like if we don't start paying more attention, like what are the consequences for us? We can say as, as people or even as women at this age of life with our fluctuating hormones. I think we really need to keep in mind that we don't know where this is going. And that a hundred years ago, our world was Polluted in a different way. Right? There was lead. You know, there was lead in our paint. We had, you know, extraordinary air pollution in some places, particulate matter that we were inhaling that caused lung cancer. We live in an industrialized world. That is the world we live in. It's just shifting in the way that it does it, in the way that we, it's just shifting. Um, so we, I think we need to like, keep that in mind and just not freak out. You know, I think that's like the most important thing. What's at stake? Um, what are we really worried about? Are we worried about dying? I don't know. Like, yeah, I guess so. But our, our longevity rates are pretty much the same still, so. Mm-hmm. Um, are we worried about, you know, early puberty? Okay, yes. That is a concern and let's. Make sure that our girls that we are raising have the healthiest possible environment to grow up in. Let's do that. But also recognize that,, the times that those things happen to us as a community are shifting constantly, right? So like, things are shifting. Um, so I think we, I think we need to be careful. I think the stakes are high. I think, you know, for me as a mother, that's like the biggest, those are the biggest stakes of all. But I think that we can keep that in mind. Like, I am doing what I can. I am, I'm voting, I'm taking care of my home. I'm taking care of my community, I'm taking care of myself. Those are the things I can do. If I start thinking really, really big, yes, you know, I'm gonna be paralyzed and that's something, it's gonna shut us down. None of us wanna do. Um, so I have. I think you've seen, but I have a, a newsletter that I send out every month and it's good news. Yes. So there is so much talk about all the bad things that are happening environmentally, like all the, you know, policy decisions around climate, around like wind and solar and all those things that are kind of, if you are somebody who's been following this for a while, it's like, seems to be going in the wrong direction. But I will tell you, I do that research and I fact check it all, and it is still moving in the right direction. It's just moving quietly in the right direction. We're not talking about it, but here's the thing. It it's a business proposition. At the end of the day, we are a, the US is a capitalist country and the people that make the decisions in this country are motivated by making money, I think pretty much more than anything else. Maybe that's a dark view, but I think it's accurate. Yeah. But the, the economy is moving away from oil and gas and petrochemicals, and it's moving towards a new way of doing things. And our government may say different, but the people who are looking at like, where they're gonna make money next down the road, 20 years, 30 years, they recognize that. I mean, it's, it's like no question. So, so we can let the capitalism work in our favor in that sense, right? If it's going to drive people to invest in, in things that are healthier for the planet and for our bodies, then, then, well certainly when it comes to climate, I think that there are some, um, different considerations when it comes to consumer products. So it's not as clear cut there. And I still do think that, like being advocates and, and yes, voting with your. Or whatever, wallet or whatever. Those things are still really, really important to tell manufacturers that we don't want to support an economy that is linear, that is trashing the planet, that is not healthy for our bodies and our families and our communities, right? We want us to keep doing that. But I guess my point is simply like if you look at the Glo, the way the world is working, if you look at like Chinese solar expansion for example, that's shifting the way that our entire eco world economy works and it's shifting it really fast, and I think that. Those who are making the decisions in the US do not wanna be left out of that. Yes. And they're continuing. So yes. So that is a good thing. Okay. We'll make sure people can subscribe to your newsletter. I think we could use all of the good news. We can. And I think you make a very interesting point with vote, with your wallet. I mean, look what happened with Jimmy Kimmel and Disney Plus for goodness sakes. Right, right. If we have the power to say no to that, like I think maybe that's a, an important takeaway here is don't forget that you have some power in this as well. Yeah. And when I think, again, coming back to, um, as women who are either perimenopausal or, or postmenopausal, and we have all of these different dark horses that we're, you know, there are different things sort of vying for our, for our health physically and mentally and emotionally. I'm a person who is very much like I take medication for my A DHD, and I am on hormone replacement therapy. And I also have, um, closets full of tinctures and meditation practice. Mm-hmm. And journaling and therapy. I've always been a person that's like, uh, I'm a very clean eater. Right? Like, I'm going to, I'm gonna incorporate all of this. But when we're talking about our hormones as women, it matters, doesn't it? It's not just, it's not just make sure you're having the right balance of this or that. It, it, it matters what we're putting into our bodies and our homes. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. It absolutely matters. It matters, but I also want people to not be so afraid that they're like, the world is ending and we should just Right. You know, screw it all. You know what I mean? So if there were like a few things that if you are a woman of whatever age and you are like, okay, I, maybe I'm on birth control, maybe I'm not, maybe I'm on HRT, maybe I'm not, what are some things I can do that are going to benefit me hormonally that are within my control, not as scare tactics, but what are some shifts I could make to be more hormonally healthy, aside from medications and birth control and hormones and all that? Yeah, I mean, I think all the things that you mentioned are all part, um, part of that process, you know, um, and the things that we talked about before, like, you know, here's how to reduce pesticide exposure in your home. Here's how to reduce like exposure to potentially hormone disrupting chemicals in your home. Like, these are, those are things that I think we can all, we can all do. And. Frankly, we should do them before perimenopause. Like we should try to do them. Yes. You know, from the get, like, that should be the way. I remember when I first started cleaning my house with vinegar and water and, you know, my family was like, what is, like, what's that smell? You know? Same. But then after several years of that, they would go into other people's houses because when you don't use synthetic fragrances in your home with your laundry, you know, like we don't use, um dryer sheets. Yeah. Or like heavily scented laundry. Right. We don't do any of that. And so they, they would be like, oh my God, it smells so strong in here.'cause you know, they're not their noses. You, you go visit your get desensitized. Yes. And you go visit your, your neighbor who's maybe in their eighties and it's like, glade plugins everywhere. And like, I feel like that gives me a headache now. Yeah. I'm like, what, what am I inhaling? And when you think about how as Gen Xers, we were like raised on Windex, you know? So when I first started cleaning with vinegar, my family was like, what is that smell? But now when they smell that, that's what they associate with clean. So where we, like, I used to associate like the, you know, a synthetic lemon scent with clean, right? They associate, you know, the truly clean scent of vinegar with clean, and I think that's what we need to kind of shift. It's like make those things normal. Normalize carrying a stainless steel water bottle, normalize, you know, not microwaving in plastic normalize, like sending your kids to school with paper bags instead of plastic bags. Like all those things we need to like normalize those and make those what we all do. And then the other things are like, oh, well sometimes maybe you have to use a Ziploc. Okay, that's not a big deal, you know, but like, let's try to make that the exception rather than the rule. So the, like the TLDR for folks, it does matter. So change up your cleaning product. Don't use chemicals. There are natural options out there. Or you can make your own. That's not hard. Yeah. Take your shoes off, buy Thrifted clothing if you can. Look at the ingredients or look at one of these resources for it, your makeup and your, and your beauty products. Like, so there are these little things we can do that are going to make us feel better. Um, yeah. And vote and vote and yes, that's the very important tldr also vote. Um, also vote and we'll try to put as many resources as we can in, uh, in the show notes here so people don't have that moment of paralysis, of like, I care, but what do I do? This has been such an illuminating conversation. You are a wealth of information and thank you for delivering it in like a, a palatable, easy to understand, not panic kind of way. Yeah. I, you know, I think perimenopause especially is a time where panic is felt, you know? Yes. And so I think it just, it just is like, that's how I remember, you know, feeling. Just like, why am I so angry? Why am Yes. Like, why? Like, you know, I'm sure that that when I first got my period at 11, like I was feeling the same way, but I don't remember that. You know? I don't remember. I do, and I certainly don't remember like stripping off my shirt in the middle of the living room because I am just so hot all of a sudden I can't take it. But like those, it feels out of control, you know? Yes. But I think these steps that we can take, like you mentioned, meditation and journaling and essential oils, and then choosing all those cleaner options, like, then you kind of feel like, oh, I did that. You know, I did that and I feel better. And so I feel better about these parts that I can't control. Like you can't control a hot flash, there's just no question. But you can control like. Knowing, like I'm always reaching over to my friends with my, you know, cold glass and like, sticking it on their wrist, you know?'cause I'm like, do this. I see you, you know, just like do this. I know I was in my gynecologist office a few months ago and she was like, I can literally tell that you're having one right now. And yeah, I, because you can, um, do you ever do this though, where you take the glass and you put it on your, just take a glass filled with ice and just stick it on your carotid or on your wrist? No. See, this is why we need to keep telling these. Okay. So listen, you've got one more takeaway now. What were the things that helped get you through the rough parts of perimenopause? Oh, uh, so we got ac Yeah, you did. That was like, that was critical. We did, we never had it. I've been in this house for 20 years. Um, but yeah, we got ac that little things like that. Like, I just, one day I was like having a hot flash and I had. Glass of ice and I like stuck it on my, you know, my neck.'cause this is where all the blood is going into this part of your head. Right. So like, and I was like, oh my God, it cools you down so fast. You know? So like little things like that. I think, um, oh, layered clothing. Like I, mm. Every single turtleneck. I was like, you, I will never put this over my head again. No, never in a million years will I put this on my head. I had a time, I traveled last year by myself and I was wearing a turtleneck, and I remember posting on social media and I was like, A perimenopausal woman gets on an airplane wearing a turtleneck. That's it. That's the joke. I was like, what have I done? I, I, I'm like, somebody knocked me out. Give me that clean tequila and give me a lot of it, because I gotta pass out. I know. I'm like, I loved turtlenecks. Yeah. No, not anymore. Mm-hmm. Good god. No. No. Yeah. Cardigans shirts and cardigans. Cardigans layers. Yeah. That was really important. Mm-hmm. Did you take, and just, did you take any, did like, did you do any of the ashwagandha, black koosh? Did you, did you change anything you were putting into your body? I did. Um, I think I did evening primrose for a while. Mm-hmm. I did not do hormones until after menopause, which is interesting. My doctor was like, it was kind of weird.'Cause I was like, why is this happening to me? You know, I'm too young. And she's like, you're too young, you know? But then she was like, huh, looks like, looks like you're in almost done uhhuh, and we don't wanna put you on. So I was like, oh, okay. I guess so. But now I am and I feel so much better. Like it really? Yes. No, super, super important for like. You know, post for postmenopausal, it's really important. Apparently. I just, just, just learned. Yeah, no. Well I, it's interesting'cause like an hour before this, like an hour ago right before we got on this call, I was on Instagram and I saw Dr. Mary Claire Haver had posted some new research about how it is helpful to start it in perimenopause. I think the research is just constantly changing. Mm-hmm. It is a moving target and I mean, I'm still, I'm a breast cancer risk and I don't know how many times I'm going to have to rinse away the residue of estrogen is the devil. It's going to give you cancer. Mm-hmm. You know, that we mm-hmm. So, I don't know. I mean, I think there is, uh, I think that layer is just one more fearful thing because I started taking estrogen when I was having, I didn't know those were night sweats. I just, I like waking in the up in the middle of the night, stripping off your shirt, mopping your sweaty self off and putting like, yeah. I didn't understand that that's what that was, and that there was something that could help it. Yeah. There's a doctor, I can't remember her last name, but her first name is Rachel. I'm sorry. Remember? That's, we'll figure it out. It's a little research, but she's, yeah, she's a menopause doctor, and I remember listening to her on a podcast and she said, if men turned 45 and their dicks shriveled up, you better be sure that the American Medical Association would be recommending whatever would help with that. You know, like, but. Absolutely. Here we, here we are, here we are learning on our own, having these conversations, passing information back and forth. Yes. Like women do. Like women do. And that's, and that's great. You know, there's, there's power in that too. So there's power in number of, that's that too. Mm-hmm. And then I, no, I mean, having Dr. Jolene Brighton on the podcast where she was, I mean, she just went on an absolute rant against how patriarchal, uh, the healthcare system is and how we are left to struggle and be miserable. And not be researched. And not be studied. And, and then, but you, you are so right. If when men hit midlife, the wheels came off the whack. And if, if menopause was a thing, menopause, menopause would be handled very differently. Menopause is a thing. And that's a multi-billion dollar, you know, Viagra c industry Oh, right. Industry. Oh my God. Right. That is a thing. Uhhuh. And it's a well-funded thing and uh, and makes people a lot of money. Back to capitalism. There we are. Back to capitalism. And we've come full circle. Yes. So your hormones and capitalism. I really unfortunate intersection. Oh my goodness. Oh, I can't thank you enough. This has been such a fascinating conversation. Really great to talk with you and, um, yeah, I'm excited to, you know, keep talking as we, as we should all be doing. Yeah. Yes. Keep talking about it. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Thanks for being here. Together, we're going to make midlife neurodivergence less of a mystery.