Microneedling vs Laser: Which Is Better? | Skin Resurfacing Explained | Vitality Unfiltered

Vitality Unfiltered Podcast

Host: David J. Bauder, PA-C
 Co-Host: Stephanie Lattimore
 Guest: Alicia Sanderson, MD

In this episode of Vitality Unfiltered, we explore one of the most common questions in aesthetic medicine: microneedling vs laser— which treatment is better?

Both microneedling and laser skin resurfacing are widely used to improve skin texture, stimulate collagen, and address signs of aging. However, these treatments work through very different mechanisms and carry different considerations related to depth, downtime, and risk.

David J. Bauder, PA-C, founder of Weight Loss & Vitality, along with co-host Stephanie Lattimore and guest Dr. Alicia Sanderson, facial plastic surgeon and otolaryngologist, break down how each modality works and how to determine the most appropriate treatment for individual patients.

A central theme of this episode is that there is no single “best” treatment. Instead, optimal outcomes are achieved through patient-specific decision-making that considers skin type, goals, tolerance for downtime, and overall risk profile.

In This Episode We Discuss

• How microneedling stimulates collagen through controlled micro-injury
 • How laser treatments resurface skin and target deeper structures
 • Differences in treatment depth and tissue interaction
 • Downtime expectations and recovery considerations
 • Risks associated with each modality, including pigmentation concerns
 • Which skin types are better suited for microneedling vs laser
 • Contraindications and when certain treatments should be avoided
 • How and when to safely combine both modalities
 • The role of marketing in shaping patient expectations
 • Why individualized treatment planning is essential for optimal results

Key Takeaway

Microneedling and laser treatments are both effective for improving skin quality, but the best choice depends on the individual patient. Personalized treatment planning ensures safer outcomes and more meaningful, long-term results.

Contact Weight Loss & Vitality

📞 Call: 571-550-9000
 🌐 Visit: https://weightlossandvitality.com

✨ Skin Resurfacing: https://www.weightlossandvitality.com/services/skin-resurfacing

About Vitality Unfiltered

Vitality Unfiltered is a medical podcast exploring the science of hormones, longevity, metabolism, weight loss, aesthetics, and precision medicine.

Each episode provides clinical insight from healthcare professionals who treat these conditions every day.

Our goal is simple: to help people better understand the biology of their health so they can make informed decisions about wellness, prevention, and long-term vitality.

⚠️ Disclaimer
This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Listening to this episode does not establish a provider-patient relationship. Always consult your qualified healthcare professional regarding medical concerns, diagnosis, or treatment.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Vitality.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Vitality Unfiltered.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

With David Bowder.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Welcome back to another episode of Vitality Unfiltered. I'm David Bowder, your host. With me today is Dr. Alicia Sanderson, double board certified headneck and facial plastic surgeon. And my co-host today is Stephanie Lattimore, nurse practitioner out of our DC location. Today's topic, we're going to be talking lasers. There's lots of lasers out there. There's lots of hype, there's lots of social media. Were we hitting up on IPL, we're going to IPLBBL, there's a similar type of technology. We'll talk about the Erbium laser, the CO2, how they integrate together, the you know how you can layer these different procedures together to get like treatments on top of treatments and what the best benefit is for all the different services. So to start off with, I would like to we should start off by basically letting the listeners know what happens to an individual when they're treated with a laser underneath the skin. So kind of like on the subsurface, like where's the benefit come from when they get a laser treatment?

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Great. So um in general, I like to talk about um let's talk about facial resurfacing, right? That is gonna have a really broad topic. That's gonna talk about chemical facial resurfacing. It's gonna talk about lasers, which is light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation. That's what it stands for, okay? So those are devices, and there's not one laser, there's a series of lasers based on what the medium is for that. So I'll talk a little bit about that. Then we talk about, you know, we talk about microneedling and radio frequency treatments. Again, those are all facial resurfacing procedures, but they're not specifically a laser. So I think when we talk about all those things, we'll focus a little bit on lasers today, but there are other facial resurfacing treatments. So as we talked about it, the laser in there, every laser is different and they have a different substance that amplifies their light. Um, based on what the laser's wavelength is, is what gets treated. So for example, a carbon dioxide laser is a 10,300, I think, um, wavelength. So whatever it hits is water. So when it hits the, you know, the skin, which has a water content, that's where the energy is absorbed. Some of the other lasers, like pulse dye lasers, YAG lasers, and things like that, passes through the level of the skin and will hit, you know, you know, pigments or vasculature or red or yellow. If you have tattoos and you want to remove tattoos, you actually need a laser that has different color pigments, you know, whether it's an alexandrite or one of those, and they actually have to put the energy in really fast as something called K switch, which actually explodes the pigment in the skin. So when you're talking about a laser, you need to know what is the substance that's amplifying it. That's the type of laser that you have. And based on that, you have a wavelength that is the target. So some lasers pass through the superficial layer of the skin, some lasers hit the surface of the skin. So not every laser is the same. And based on you know what is available, there's um different things you can treat.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

We could probably start off by kind of the the least invasive. We could break it down like least invasive would be, I guess you could, if we're gonna go down the resurfacing track, we could be radio frequency or we could be microneedling.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

So I would say microneedling. So what micro-needling is, is that you actually put little tiny needles into the skin and it actually causes trauma to the skin. So how do lasers work, as you asked me before? The the theory behind resurfacing is that we either want to remove the superficial layers or we want to act and or we want to stimulate the um cells in your skin to produce more um collagen and elastin. So when you injure the skin, whether through a laser or microneedling or another in there, the body will heal. When the body heals, it produces collagen and fibrin and elastin. So it wakes up those cells in the skin called fibroblasts and it has a healing process. So a lot of the treatments, you'll have the initial treatment and you'll look okay, but it's that prolonged event of the healing process and the fiber stimulating the prior the fibroblasts that has the healing. So when you do something like microneedling, you are actually just causing a trauma to the skin, and then hopefully the skin will heal and it'll improve the quality of the skin. So something a microneedle is safe to use on any skin type or any type of skin because it's not it it doesn't really have a target as much as just a trauma. When you talk about um radio frequency microneedling, what happens is it the it's microneedling, so they put the needles in, but the tip of the needle will create a little heat. So it causes that thermal injury deeper into the skin and the layers where those cells are found. So that's that's um a simplified way of talking about microneedling and radio frequency microneedling. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

And that procedure that's available at med spas. I mean, that's a very, very readily available procedure that's available. And it can be done monthly or every six weeks or what have you. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

And they're at-home microneedling things. And some of them have like they div deliver chemicals and and in and compounds into the skin. Be very careful with the radio frequency. The FDA just came out with a warning on um that because it can cause some scarring. So the radio frequency microneedling should be done by you know somebody who is trained to go ahead and do that because if you do um cause a lot of thermal damage down deep, it can cause scarring, like disfiguring scarring. So um so just be careful when you're you those. But a lot of the at-home microneedlings that you can do every day, you know, they're gonna have minimal results. But that's the theory behind them.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

And then one add-on to the microneedling would sometimes they'll you they'll do you can do a microneedling session and you can actually also do PRP on top of that. Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

So PRP, which is protein-rich plasma, is actually you can take you know your own blood, and in your blood you have some stem cells. So applying that. So again, PRP has huge applications and doing a lot of things, I think stem cells and regeneration. So yes, so what happens is the microneedling creates little channels in the skin. So the skin's a barrier. So you put things on top of the skin. If the skin's doing its job, it's not going to go down deep. But when you create little um, you know, channels or tunnels with the needles, then it lets the the PRP get down into the skin where it can be active.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Aaron Powell And safe for the most part. They very, very safe procedure for the listeners. Very safe procedure. So the next step up after that, I guess we could have done like the broadband light or the IPL maybe right before that. Or we can come right now talking about the photo light therapy. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

When we talk about um BBL, I will interject. My family and friends were very excited and ambivalent when they heard that I was performing BBL in the clinic. This is broadband light. This is not Brazilian butt lifts. So I just we use this term all the time, but we're talking about broadband light compared to IPL intense pulse light. Um then um those are just two another form of wavelength to penetrate the skin, another laser treatment um that we perform in the clinic. My understanding is the broadband light goes a little bit deeper than the intense pulse light.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

Aaron Ross Powell So both of them are I I think there are like subtle differences, but it's using visible light. So that uses actually a visible light as a source. And then again, depending on what prism you put on there in there is the the target, the depth of invasion and things like that. But I think that they're very similar and they can be used, you know, like that having a larger spectrum that potentially does more things, you know, as opposed to a really focused, like an intense pulse light. Like if you want a vascular lesion, you don't necessarily need broadband, right? So if you want something that's red and your target is red or vascular or blue, then you really want an intense pulse light. Where if you have a broad, a broader range of that light, you're gonna treat more, you know, kind of treat more things and have a wider band.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: You know, under that treatment treatment protocol, the Forever Young Protocol. We did that for like we've done that on a lot of patients. And if patients stick with it and do it, it works. Yeah. You know, and it it works. And the problem is it's kind of time consuming. You know, it's kind of repetitive treatment. They have to come in pretty frequently and then maintenance after that.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Trevor Burrus, Jr. And that's a really important thing to talk about when you talk about facial resurfacing. You have to you have to weigh the balance of downtime versus results. So, you know, we go through ebb ebb and flow, and you know, at one point everybody wanted minimal downtime. They want maximum results, minimal downtime. Well, you know, you want to go in and have a procedure and come out looking pink and be able to go back to work the next day. You're gonna have to do that a lot to get any results in there. If you go in and have an ablative procedure done, and we'll talk a little bit about ablative, non-ablative lasers in general, but if you go and have a bullet, you look horrible for a while, but then you're gonna have more dramatic results on the other side. And both are great treatment options based on your life. If you're a professional and you can't take time off of work, you know, doing, you know, the BBLs and the IPLs on a regular basis have that. But it is time consuming. And I think it's hard for me as a surgeon. I just don't have, you know, when I'm seeing other patients and doing surgery and things like that, I don't necessarily have the time to do, you know, 10 procedures on a patient to see where they are. So I tend definitely in my practice to stay on the, I do more the ablative work. So non-ablative are more of those minimal downtime procedures. They're the procedures that don't necessarily, you know, kind of totally, you know, injure or traumatize the tissue. It just kind of has a small focus. So you have less of a recovery time. The ablative procedures means it actually goes through and and actually does, you know, you cause thermal injury or remove, you know, cells from the top. So it's it's more of a traumatic event, a controlled traumatic event that we can predict the healing, but you get much more dramatic, you know, results from ablative procedures. So if you want to see big changes, especially things like acne scarring or really heavy rids, you re wrinkles, sorry, you need to actually do an ablative procedure. So the so every laser has a role based on what you want.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Aaron Ross Powell And when we mentioned that like microneedling, fairly risk-free, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

The BPL or IB I b I IPL, it's pretty risk-free, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:41

But not not necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

But not necessarily. That one can be a burn. I mean, you can you can if that's if the settings are not correct on that machine, you can add, you know.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And and I think that that is uh really important. Like any of these devices can cause injury. We like to say, oh, it's minimal, no risk in there, but everything has a risk. Everything you do. You could do a micro needling and then get an infection, right? And then if you have infection, you have scarring and things like that. So nothing is risk-free that we do. And definitely you want to make sure somebody has um the right training and going through there because with these if these machines work, they can cause damage, right? Because they're they're fixing something. So there is risk associated with that.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

That's right. Aaron Ross Powell, so I think then we move into, I guess after the BBL and the IPL, then probably kind of a non-ablative would also be considered the YAG, the YAG laser. That's a non-ablative uh laser. And it works. It's good for hair removal. And there is technically some stimulation of the fibroblast cells. There it's actually a protocol to treat you know fine lines and stuff, but it's not really used for that. And it's a painful laser. This is the one that hurts. This is the one that hurts. So after the YAG, that's kind of a that was probably one of the originals, right? The old YAG laser. That's been around a long time.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: They've all they've been around for a long time. CO2 was this so the carbon dioxide of the CO2 laser is absolutely the gold standard of lasers, right? That was what I mean, dramatic, absolutely beautiful results, right? But you'd it was painful, so you'd have to go to the operating room um to have the treatment. And you looked bad for six weeks, the healing process, and you totally, you know, took off the whole surface, skin of the face, and you stimulated. I mean, the results were dramatic, but nobody wants to look horrible for six weeks. So that was really the gold standard of lasers that you have out there. Then they come out with fractionated carbon dioxide laser, not to be confused with fraxal, which is a brand name. So there's lots and lots of brand names out there, and people say, oh, this laser, that laser. That's just branding. So what we you really want to talk about is what is the wavelength and the type of laser it is, because the companies are going to mark it.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

The technology.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

Yeah, but fraxal is not the same as fraction, it's fractionated, but it's not fractionated carbon dioxide laser. So what you mean by fractionated is that if you have an area or a square of tissue, if I was to laser that, I would destroy the whole entire surface area of that. Everywhere the laser hit, it doesn't. So when you fractionate something, you pixelate it. So you actually, instead of destroying the whole entire area, you drill little holes and you leave space between those holes where it can re-epithelialize. So the epithelial cells of the face actually come from the hair follicle, the sepaceous units, and it comes from the edge of the normal skin. So when you fully treat the face with a non-fractionated CO2 laser, you are depending on the epithelial cells to come from all those sebaceous units, the hair follicles, things like that. When you pixelate it, meaning you leave normal skin in between, the healing can come from the normal skin that you leave behind. So that's why you have a faster healing process. Based on how tight you put that pixelation together. So if I put it at 90%, 90% really tight, a lot of, you know, little drill holes in there, you're gonna treat 90% of the skin surface. If I decrease that pixelation and go to 35%, only 35% of the skin is gonna be treated. You're gonna heal like that, right? There's not as much heal. So the nice thing about fractionated lasers is that you can adjust your treatment. So if you want only to be, you know, have like a three-day down period, just you know, spread out, do a 35% treatment, and they're, you know, a little bit pink, a little bit red, but they can be presentable in three days. Now your results are okay, they're not great. Now, if I do 90%, you're gonna be healing for like over a week, but your results are much more dramatic. So so fractionated CO2. So CO2 was probably the gold standard, and now with the fractionation, it's become popular. Okay, so back to the yaga.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Oh, I think we answered it. I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Is that Dr. Sanderson? Is that the deep kind of the way that I see lasers is kind of like superficial to deep. Is that kind of the depth that's nope, so that's different.

SPEAKER_04 14:57

So when you get into a laser, so the wonderful thing about lasers and settings, you can adjust all of those. So um you can adjust the density and then you can adjust the duration of a laser. So the longer I leave the pulse on, the deeper it will go. So imagine it's coming down as a beam. So if I increase the duration, um, which is the long the length the laser stays on in milliseconds, it'll go deeper. So I can actually change the density, make it really not really dense, but put on the duration long so it goes down deeper. So it's treating deeper, but it's more spread out. If I want to do a really heavy treatment, I will tighten the density and the duration. And so that way it's getting deep to the deeper layers of the skin, because remember the skin's a barrier, so it's getting down to the deep layers and it's taking care of all the superficial surface things, right? So more of the skin's gonna slough off and it gets deeper. So you can play around with the laser a lot, and that's important when you get to really thin skin. So when you're we're treating the face, I like to treat the neck. The neck, the neck is thin skin. So I have to decrease my duration so it doesn't go as deep in the skin, otherwise I'm gonna start getting scarring. So all these lasers have complications that can have in there. So it's important to kind of adjust and and change as needed. So you can change a whole bunch of things about a laser to say how deep you want to go, how superficial, how tight and dense.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

When we talk about the different types of lasers, and you got into this with the safety, who is a good candidate for which lasers and who might not be the best candidate for others?

SPEAKER_04 16:41

Correct. Yeah. And so probably the most important thing when you start talking about skin resurfacing is the pigment. So skin pigment. So we have a classification system called the Fitzpatrick classification that's that talks about the your fairness of your skin and your likelihood to burn. So if you are very fair and you're gonna burn, you probably don't have a lot of like melanin or pigment in your skin. If you are darker skinned and you always tan, you have a lot of pigment in your skin. When you do these lasers, depending on what their wavelength is and what their target is, if it's something like the CO2 that is waters their target, right? And they kind of, you know, just you know, destroy everything in its path, it's gonna destroy the pigment. If you destroy the pigment cells, then you're gonna have pigment problems afterwards. So for the CO2 laser or a lot of the ablative lasers, it doesn't work as well with dark pigmented. It's not that it doesn't work as well, is that we don't use it with the darker pigmented because it can have problems with hypopigmentation, too little pigmentation, or in the healing process it can stimulate hyperpigmentation in there. So if you have more olive complexion, um I've seen sometimes in those patients they can, in the healing process, they can get hyperpigmentation. So they get dark spots, and that's something that you need to treat with steroids and retinase and hydroquinone creams in there. So they that can be treated. But some of the lasers, it doesn't stop them from doing. So I definitely can treat olive, you know, complexion or darker skin complexions with certain lasers, but I have to really decrease the density and shorten the duration. And I definitely will do test spots on them. But in really, really dark skin, you can't use a CO2 um laser.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

I think the YAG is the only laser that can be used in darker hyper patients with darker pigment.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Aaron Powell You can't. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think for the most part, like because it looks at what their model is. And again, there's so many lasers out there. Like if it's, you know, if you know for like vascular, and again, depending on how dark the skin is, what the you know the goal is, um they can do it. So that limits it, right? And so if you have darker skin pigmentation, you know, you you may have to go to like chemical peels, like salicylic peels and things like that that um can help with that.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Aaron Ross Powell Well, let's talk about combining therapies, like bringing the lasers in involved, putting it all together. So when would you, when you're looking at a patient and you think about Botox, dermal fillers, lasers, surgical possibilities, where where do you go with that? Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

So I think that people need a combination of therapies. I think if we're gonna look at, you know, a young, healthy, rejuvenated face, um, that it it's everything. It's the quality of the skin, it's the texture of the skin, it's the pores, it's the the wrinkles, it's the volume in the face, it's the shadowing of the face, it's the skin laxity. So I think a lot of times you want to combine, you know, therapies and take care of it. The wonderful thing about lasers is like especially, you know, the I think the Herbm and also the CO2 laser, it's gonna decrease your pore size, it's gonna tighten your skin, it's gonna help with, you know, superficial wrinkles. It's probably not gonna take out the really deep ones. So you probably need to put some filler underneath the deep ones and then laser on top of it. Around the mouth, those, you know, the smokers lines, even non-smokers and things like that, you know, I will do a combination of therapy. I'll put some um some filler in the deep lines and then a heavy laser around the mouth to like kind of resurface it and smooth it. When I'm doing facelifts, right? If people have a lot of sun damage, they have a lot of wrinkles, the facelift really just addresses the skin laxity. And if you're doing deep planes, a little bit of the volume repositioning and going through there, but you, you know, you probably need to improve the quality of the skin. So, very common on a lot of my patients. I'll be doing, you know, perioral lasers to help with the wrinkles around their mouth as I'm pull, you know, pulling the skin because you want a symmetry of the face. I'll have patients come in and they they do a lot of Botox and this area looks great, they look rejuvenated, and then this area looks about 20 years older. So, um, and then they have the laxity here. Well, the laser's not gonna tighten a jowl. You need to do the facelift, and then you know, the facelift isn't gonna take care of the wrinkly, you know, smokers lines around the lips, so that's where you need to do a laser. So I think it's important that you do multimodality approach to it. Um, and you can do a lot of things together. I can't laser on top of my lifted area. So if I'm doing a facelift, I can do a laser in the mid portion of the face, I can do it around the mouth, but you really can't laser on top of the skin flaps that you're moving because of blood supply. Um, you don't want to do Botox when you're doing laser, um, because when you put Botox, you need to stay in the muscle where it is. When you do a laser, you get a lot of swelling, and so that causes the Botox to migrate and you can get facial weakness that'll happen afterwards temporary until the Botox wears off, but um but that can occur as well.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

If you were to give advice to the listener out there, if they're gonna consider doing a laser treatment, what what would you like pre treatment? Like if they are like, okay, I'm gonna do a laser treatment in six weeks from now, what should they do?

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Retin A. So being on retinne under number one, stay out of the sun, right? So even if you are a sun worshiper and you're still gonna be in there, if you're gonna have any kind of laser treatment or it especially intensive. Pulse light or BBL or things like that, you've got to stay out of the sun. So stay out of the sun and then be using a retin A on a regular basis. It helps to um to kind of prep the skin and get it ready for the laser. Um, you one of the contraindications for laser is if you've been on Accutane for six months prior. So Accutane is usually done for cystic acne and it actually causes the sebaceous glands of the face to dry up. When you do that, you're actually inhibiting one of the best healing processes for the laser. So you don't want to use accutane or be on Accutane or have used it within six months of doing an ablative procedure because you've limited the body's ability to heal from it because those sebaceous lunar units have been um they're shrunken down and they're not functioning.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Any type of more you know, like other than the retin A, is there any other products that they would use, or is that just the main one then?

SPEAKER_04 22:57

Yeah, so it's for the most part, I I will say like pre-treat with uh, you know, with a retin A. Sometimes with pigmentation, people can be on like hydroquinones. I've not had great you know, like it I think hydroquinone is um limited. I think it has a role um to help, you know, prevent post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation, and I'll put them on some steroids and things like that for that.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

But um really it's the And you would never really treat uh pre pretreatment if you knew somebody was susceptible to hyperpigmentation, you wouldn't pretreat with steroids, you would wait until after the treatment.

SPEAKER_04 23:26

I would wait until after because it wouldn't do anything, right? It wouldn't do anything. So the reason why they're getting hyperpigmentation after the surgery is because of the inflammatory response. So they don't have the inflammatory response before it, so the steroids doesn't matter. But topical steroids afterwards is the the goal is to decrease the inflammatory response, which is you know causing the hyperpigmentation.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Right. Steph, you have anything?

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Aaron Powell I thought of another kind of sidebar pretreatment, post-treatment, especially when it comes to the CO2 laser and the um depth of the skin that you're affecting, um antiviral prophylaxis.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

Aaron Ross Powell So absolutely. So um most people have been exposed to the herpes virus, even if you don't get cold sores or things like that. Um whenever we're doing an ablative treatment in and around the mouth, you want to be on uh an antiviral um usually started the day before and you're on a week for a week afterwards because any kind of trauma heat or things can actually um cause you know, reactivation of the virus in there. And the problem with that is going to be scarring. So if you get a herpatic breakout and you get a wound, you can get some scarring in that heal process. So you want to be really um cautious about that.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, and I I usually like to end like I think great discussion. And I how I I always like to end kind of like to dispel any social media buzz out there, right? And and what comes up a lot on social media again is machines get marketed, names, brands, right? Yeah. And I I you know like I think it's really, really important that the listener understands that it's the strength of these procedures comes from the person executing the procedure, right? CO2 is CO2, and there's a lot of technical pieces to this. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

Right. And I think that so understanding the motivation behind aesthetics, which I think for me, for I I love what I do and I've been doing it for a long time, and I did it in the military for a long time. So it wasn't money driven. Unfortunately, there's so much marketing and information out there, you know, and again, because you know business has found that this is a great area that we can, you know, we can, you know, manipulate this and do this stuff. So understand there is not some laser out there that's the one you have to do. There's categories of lasers, and all of these lasers are categories of lasers and things, you know, what they can and can't do. So um it does absolutely matter who's, you know, executing it and who's doing it, but they're doing the same principle. The same principle is that we are causing a controlled injury to the skin to stimulate the body to heal and produce more collagen and elastin in there. So don't get caught up that you have to do this one machine or that one machine. Understand that these machines are incredibly expensive. And in order to get like return on your investment too, they have to market and they're trying to sell that. So, so you know, going through not that that I mean, some of these lasers are wonderful, but don't get hung up on a name because they're all doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

So so my takeaway is it's not the brand, it's the technology behind the laser. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Well, I think uh great discussion with both of you. Thank you both for coming on the show. All right. And if you enjoyed the show, make sure you click or subscribe below so you don't miss the next episode. Thank you for joining us today on Vitality Unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Thanks for joining us on Vitality Unfiltered with David Bowder.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Addressing norms, busting myths, and uncovering health realities for a more vibrant life today. For more expert insights and real talk, make sure to subscribe and join us next time.