Your Labs, Your Story: What the Numbers Are Really Telling You

What if your lab results weren't a report card — but a conversation?

In this episode, Jenny and Kaitlyn sit down with Casey, RN, to pull back the curtain on something that can feel intimidating for so many of us: lab work. But here's the thing — your numbers tell a story. Not a story of what's "wrong" with you, but a story about patterns, lifestyle, and what your body is trying to communicate.

Casey brings over 13 years of nursing experience — including time in the ER — along with a deep curiosity about the human condition and why we make the choices we do. She shares how her own health experiences, including watching her kids' ADHD symptoms improve through lifestyle changes, shifted her perspective and ultimately led her to integrative care at Into the Woods Wellness.

Together, they explore how ITW approaches lab reviews differently — starting with your real life (stress, sleep, nutrition, relationships) rather than jumping straight to numbers. They talk about the difference between "normal" and "optimal" ranges, why markers like cholesterol, vitamin D, and thyroid labs can mean completely different things for different people, and how curiosity and context can replace shame and confusion.

Whether you've never looked twice at your lab results or you've been told "everything looks fine" when you know something feels off — this one's for you.

In this episode, we discuss: 

• How ITW reads labs through a whole-person, root-cause lens — not labels or quick fixes 
• The difference between "normal" ranges and "optimal" — and why it matters for how you actually feel 
• How your nervous system, stress, and everyday choices show up in your numbers 
• Why Casey's approach starts with your life, not your labs – and what a lab review at Into the Woods actually looks like
• Meeting yourself where you are — with curiosity, not shame 

Your labs aren't a verdict. They're a starting point.

For more wellness pathway support:

🌲 Visit www.intothewoodsjourney.com
 📞 Call 920-904-8128
 📍 1424 Lynn Ave, Fond du Lac, WI
 ✉️ info@intothewoodsjourney.com

Follow us on social media @intothewoodswellnessfdl for daily inspiration, wellness tips, and community stories.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today we're pulling back the curtain on something that can feel intimidating, lab work. But here's the thing. Your labs tell a story, not a story of what's wrong with you, but a story about patterns, lifestyle, and what your body is trying to communicate.

Kaitlyn (KK) 0:15

Welcome to Rooted in Rising, a podcast by Into the Woods Wellness. I'm Caitlin Keneally, coming to you from our nature-inspired sanctuary in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. Grab your tea, get comfortable, and let's dive into real talk that empowers your healing journey.

Jenny 0:33

Today with Casey. And Casey is an RN here. And I know we were talking about having a deep dive into BHRT with Gene, but schedules are a little crazy. This does totally fit into the whole realm of understanding what's going on within. And today with Casey, we want to really dive into the story that your labs can tell. And of course, before we dive into a bit more of your story, you know I have a this or that for us to have some fun with. Okay. Here goes. Here goes. Quick fire to warm us up. So are you curious about your numbers or afraid to look?

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Afraid to look. Currently very curious. Yeah.

Jenny 1:22

I'm curious too. I was just chatting with Teresa at the front desk here a couple weeks ago. And I was like, you know what? I've never done the holistic lab. So I think it's time that I actually do that. It's always been just, you know, conventional medicine. And we'll dive into that. Google your results or call your provider.

Kaitlyn (KK) 1:41

That Google trap. My doctor even said, do not look stuff up.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

They will tell you you're dying. Yeah. You have nine diseases if you Google your results. I also will phone a friend. I should call my own provider, but I typically know someone who knows something.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

There you go. Yeah.

Jenny 1:56

I've done both. I know I should talk to somebody who knows their stuff, right? But I've also been uber curious and you know, type it in. Not a good idea. But still, talk to somebody who knows. Ideally, come chat with into the woods crew. Okay. One big lab panel once a year or smaller check-ins throughout.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

I'm for smaller check-ins. I usually have really focused goals, so I want to know just that. Yeah. I'm just gonna go with that one.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

We know you're not about a blood draw.

Kaitlyn (KK) 2:27

So much blood in this play. Literally, that was not on the job application, nor was the gray hairs. So I'll just keep my blood where it's stored for now.

Jenny 2:37

I will say that I've only really done them, you know, once a year, maybe fewer and further between than that. So I'd be curious what smaller check-ins would tell me. So if I get my butt in here and do some labs, perhaps we play with that.

Kaitlyn (KK) 2:52

Yeah, we don't talk about it on every episode, do we, Jenny?

Jenny 2:54

No, we do not. Okay. Next one. Your cholesterol is high. Do you panic spiral or okay, tell me more? Um, my immediate response would be panic spiral for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Okay, yeah, tell me more. And now working here, I realize why, but yeah, tell me more.

unknown 3:16

Okay.

Jenny 3:17

So here's the thing I've had that and I've I immediately went into but why? I'm eating fine. Like I went into this, okay. I'm doing something wrong. And of course, the doctor was like, Okay, well, you shouldn't be eating this, you should be eating this, like immediately blaming me, making me feel bad. So I don't know if it was necessarily a panic spiral, but it was a feel bad about myself spiral. Oh my god. Yeah. So, but I mean, we're we'll dive into it, right? The whole, okay, tell me more. Like, what else could be going on? There's so many more angles to look at here. Okay. Your reaction to blood work first thing in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

If I'm fasting, I'm cranky. Otherwise, right? I just give me some food when I'm done. Give me a cereal bar.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Totally. Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 4:09

This is why they call me baby KK. Yeah. I'm good over here.

Jenny 4:14

Yeah, I get um, I feel like I just try to schedule them strategically. We cannot go past 9 a.m. or I'm gonna be hangry, right? All right, hard data and numbers to believe things are working, or trust how you're feeling.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Always trusting how I'm feeling. Yeah. I'll even sometimes argue the numbers even though the data's there. My body's saying this.

Jenny 4:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I don't trust in myself.

Jenny 4:41

Yeah. I feel like I definitely am leaning more into trusting how I'm feeling, especially if I'm feeling better. And there is something like the logical part of my brain's like, okay, now I can validate what is happening and like there's extra data I geek out on knowing how it all connects, but definitely more intuitively connecting to how I'm feeling. Okay, cool. Well, it is time to get to know Casey a little bit, put you in the hot seat specifically now that you're warmed up. Um, Casey, you are an RN here, so registered nurse. Tell us a little bit about why you got into nursing. What was your pathway into this field?

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Initially, I didn't have any backup plan. I knew I was meant to take care of people. That's how it started for me. Always been a caretaker, always the one cleaning up after people, helping them when they're sick, which that can be detrimental anyways. But I mean, as a nurse, that's that's what I knew I wanted to do. Sure. Um, and then my journey started in the ER. So, right, like high stress, yeah, high volatility. I loved that to start. Sure. Yes, to start. And it just all led down a different path the older I got. Sure. Nursing was just I wanted to be here to help. And now I realize I'm kind of here to guide, kind of help people back to themselves. It's it's changed and evolved over the years.

Jenny 6:07

Sure. Very cool.

Kaitlyn (KK) 6:08

Yeah, I think nurses, I mean, uh they're helpers, right? Just like counselors are helpers, just in a different capacity. And thank God for people that can look at blood and clean out like that is not my capacity. I'm born to help, but in like a different way. And so I just I just always find it very fascinating, this realm of people. Um, yeah, it's it's it is truly a gift.

Jenny 6:31

Absolutely. We we need people like you, like you both, and the lens of the ER. We need the nurses that are on the front lines helping when things are really traumatic. Right. Yeah, exactly. In emergency reasons. But I can absolutely imagine that is a huge place of burnout. So you've obviously been in nursing for how many years?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Uh, this will be my 13th year. Okay.

Jenny 6:56

Yeah. Okay, awesome. And what shifted for you, or what drew you to more of the holistic pathway?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

It's funny because I always thought that that story started when I had my own kids. Okay. I even remember in the interview I had told Katie I had my own kids, they had ADHD diagnoses, started meds for three weeks, and I was like, this isn't it, there's nothing else here.

Jenny 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Did a ton of behavioral changes, right? Food dyes, all of that, and then they're normal. Oh. And I was like, there's something here. But my journey actually started when I was a kid. I was just reflecting about this with another client. When I was a teenager, my mom swore I was bulimic, right? With the best of her knowledge, she's like, she's always throwing up, she's always sick, she eats weird, she's sick after she eats. And I was like, Mom, I'm telling you something's wrong with my body. So I ended up experimenting with my own GI meds, right? Things are working, things are working, changing my own diet, and realizing meds weren't it, conventional medicine wasn't it. Yep. We didn't have an answer, but we knew my body knew something else was wrong.

Jenny 7:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

So I actually was pretty intuitive in my teenage years.

Jenny 8:02

The world does not teach us to listen to our bodies.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

No, it tells you to fix it because it's broken. And I just don't believe that. I believe we're whole if we listen and pay attention, absolutely put the pieces together.

Jenny 8:14

Slow down enough to listen, find the people that will listen to you then. Absolutely.

Kaitlyn (KK) 8:21

Yes. If you let it, yes, yeah, in the right environment, right?

Jenny 8:25

100%. Awesome. Obviously, you've been on this pathway for a while with yourself, starting pretty young with your children, you know, further along. What brought you to into the woods?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Just scrolling Facebook, like every adult who has something to do does. Um, and I saw they had a job opening for a part-time RN and I was burnt out at the hospital. I had already put in my notice for full-time because I knew that ER just wasn't for me. I was doing triage too at the time, and I just felt like I was lying to people. Well, this will help you. I don't believe that. So I needed something else and ended up just coming in to interview, and I was like, oh, this feels like a home for me. Like I don't know what's here, but it ties into the business I had already started creating and my belief about health and healing. And sure, I just jumped. I was like, I don't know, I don't like anything else, so we're gonna try this. Yeah, and it turned out to be something way different than I thought it would be.

Jenny 9:21

That's amazing. Yeah, it seems like you're a tremendous fit here. It really aligns.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

If I don't fit, I'd be like, wait, how do I start fitting again though?

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Yeah, exactly.

Kaitlyn (KK) 9:31

She was pregnant and had a baby, and then also suddenly she couldn't wait to get back to us. So that was always good.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I'm sitting in the hospital, I'm like, oh, I'm stuck here for a little while, so I'm gonna do this. And both Kelly and Caitlin, please log off. Yeah, stop working.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

You just had a baby. If that doesn't tell you you love what you do, the nursing.

Kaitlyn (KK) 9:52

So, as you know, I've come on board and we've broken things out into departments. Not only has the foundation of what we have done has been our nutrition program, but our nursing department is huge. It has the capabilities and the capacity to help so many people in so many different ways. And so it's growing and it's evolving. And although that comes with growing pains, it's super cool to see that evolution and then have our nurses growing and developing into this arena that they're passionate about. I mean, it's not perfect, nothing is perfect, but as we're maneuvering it together, it's it's really cool. And in a couple months, we'll be able to look back and be like, wow, we we did that. We did a ton, yeah. So wow, yeah that's one of the gray hairs, you know. Yeah, but like creating those protocols and because we are growing, right? Sure. So it's it's good to have people on board that first of all want to be here, that are in it, that are passionate and driven, and also have that kind of flexible mindset as we're growing. Right. Because in a in an institutional setting, it's already set up for you, right? Oh yeah, and if you don't fit in, you just don't fit in.

Jenny 11:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

That's what we've built here.

Jenny 11:03

Yeah, you're we're doing it differently here, and that's gonna take time to really put the client, the person first. And unfortunately, it does not seem like that's how traditional systems institutions are set up. So it's gonna take time. And obviously, we've keep saying it's personalized care that requires just a different mindset and how you set up. You still need procedures, you still need processes, but yeah, it just takes a little bit more time.

Kaitlyn (KK) 11:31

Yeah. So it's been cool to see the evolution from a leadership standpoint of the department. That's cool. And really, I I definitely think within the next two to three months we're gonna look back and be like, whoa, that's oh, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yeah, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel here and a little more structure and a little more creativity, and we're there to freedom to just practice how we really feel and believe.

Kaitlyn (KK) 11:52

Yeah, because we are moving into more of that clinical direction when it comes to a lot of the stuff specifically surrounding this department, obviously the counseling department, and they had started with the nutrition piece. So, what a great starting point that we've been able to branch off of. Sure. But yeah, it's it's been it's been a ride.

Jenny 12:11

So, what does that mean when you say going into the clinical aspect?

Kaitlyn (KK) 12:16

We're looking at labs and the cases that are coming in. So when they had started, people were coming in for the nutrition program. We would read their labs if they needed that, right? It was an offering, but now we I say are going deeper. We're seeing more chronic cases. Sure. People aren't just coming for the nutrition program, they might just be coming to get their laps read. Right. And then that branches us off into a different avenue, right? The complexity is shaping it and it's becoming more clinical. That is holistically clinical, right? Right. But it's just different from what had originally started.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

If you think of longevity, too, most of us need the foundation from the nutrition program. Absolutely. For things to work, you have to fix the foundation. However, we're wanting what comes next. And I think that's where the clinical piece really ties it in. Sure. We're allowing people to keep growing with us and we're guiding them wherever they want to go. Now you need your hormones stabilized. Let's go there. Yeah, you want to get back in shape or you have this skin issue, whatever it is beyond nutrition, yeah, we can answer those questions. It's really nice.

Jenny 13:23

And then when you have that base foundation of nutrition, you know that's not one of the factors contributing, right? You kind of address the root exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Your body systems.

Kaitlyn (KK) 13:35

People are asking, hey, can you guys be our primary care? Not exactly. No, but we can be a complement. You know, and so that wasn't prior to me coming on board and opening up the pathways, that wasn't sure that original part. Sure. But it's a natural evolution. Yeah. Maybe someday. Yeah, for sure.

Jenny 13:53

Well, I know there's so much passion and vision for where this could go. And obviously the world around us and the needs definitely drive that, but it's exciting to see how things are evolving and unfolding. And I think it's especially cool knowing, Casey, how passionate you are about holistic alongside the leadership aspects of it. So, are you comfortable talking a little bit about like your side business and how it's coming into what you're doing here?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah. First months here, I was trying to keep them separate. I was really trying to be cognizant and respectful of being a part of a small business while owning one. And like, okay, I can do this. But there was just no way to separate something I believe so deeply and then I live.

Jenny 14:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

And it actually kind of fits into where we're going now. Achievers, these are community members that are leaders in a community needing someone to support them. And that's what we're doing. So it really does fit right into what I do on my own, which is leadership coaching, okay, which also had its own evolution of started as nurse coaching, right? Health coaching, whatever someone wanted to talk about, to really knowing that I support high achievers that are burnt out, that don't feel themselves, they're not listening to their bodies, which is into the woods, right? Yes. They're not listening to their bodies, and I'm helping them figure out where they're at and how we can get them here, which is where they want to be.

Jenny 15:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

And it almost always ties into what is your body saying? What are you shutting out in your mind? What does your nutrition look like? Are you sleeping? Yeah. How's your relationship with your kids? Like it's all the same. So I really bring that here just as a part of who I am. So one day I sat down with Caitlin and I was just like, How do I do this? I want to be respectful, but conflict of interest, I don't want you to think that I would ever steer clients away from here. And she goes, uh, that never crossed my mind. The fact that you're talking about it just shows that's not a problem. Just be you. Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 15:46

Wherever it goes, we'll figure that out. And just tell me. Like, yeah, very much just tell me what's up, and I'm gonna support you either way. Or if I thought it would be a conflict of interest, I would have already said something. Exactly. But I looked at it as complimentary. Yeah. As a leader, you have to look. Obviously, I have to look out for everybody, right? As the CEO. But when it comes to each person, too, what can they bring to the table? I don't want to be like, don't do that, right? So to me, as a leader and looking at Casey and her skills, it just seemed like a natural evolution that just be you. And if we get to that point, then we'll just have an honest conversation. So even in therapy, that's what I say. I use a ton of evidence-based approaches, but the reality is I really just believe in having honest conversations. Absolutely. And so that's what we did. And I feel like it's working great.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah, I love it. I actually love when clients can come in and they're like, I don't know why this isn't working. You get to get so curious in that skill set of seeing these people as whole community supporters. I just get to bring it in and get cozy and listen to their story.

Kaitlyn (KK) 16:50

And I really think that that is a differentiating factor between us and a regular setting, is that we do we get to know everybody. Yeah. And I do, I've said this from the get-go. I loved when I came in that everybody knew everybody's name, where they were in the program, different things. Like it really is that the team cares about you from start to finish and wants to see you succeed. And now that we have opened up different pathways and we have more options to see that evolution of really treating the whole person. I mean, it just doesn't get any better than that.

Jenny 17:20

It doesn't, it doesn't. And there's so many people that can use what Into the Woods has to offer. But specifically what you're sharing, Casey, and it it is 100% correlated to what Into the Woods is about, but that high achiever, not listening to their body, maybe a outdated mindset of what wellness looks like or could look like, right? And the systems and how they're designed aren't quite supporting that either. I know for me, it was probably oh, maybe five plus years ago I was in that spinning multiple plates, burnout, and there's still days. I'm coming off of five hours of sleep here now. So I have my seasons, right? Um, but anyways, I think there's some some really important work that's being done here. And I'm super excited to see how the work that you guys are doing in various workplace settings, right? Different corporations and organizations where the leaderships of those teams have said, we want this for our people because they show up when they feel better, when they have energy, and when their mental health is taken care of. So there's a lot of power and potential there.

Kaitlyn (KK) 18:34

Yeah. Casey and I, well, a little side note. We just did a presentation. It was compassion and empathy across generations in the modern day workforce.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

And it was so good. It was so good. The takeaways from just these leaders connecting and realizing they're not alone in this journey. To be a part of that was just mind-blowing. It really was exciting.

Kaitlyn (KK) 18:56

I know it went so well. I was nervous, of course. You know, that's that's human. Yeah, yeah. Generalized anxiety and autism over here, you know, just mixed mixed together makes your whole nervous system very dysregulated. But I think I was obviously because it was the first time and I'm I care about the topic to listen to one another, right? And to hear. And I think that that's what we get to do here. And so sometimes when people come to us, they've already gone through everybody else, right? So they can be a little grumpy or like this isn't gonna work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

How are you different?

Kaitlyn (KK) 19:29

Yes, exactly. But I will continue to say, as I've said on this podcast, it I really believe it's our wraparound services and how many different people you can touch and how many people can help you, and that we're all working together to try to make that work for you. And I really think that that sets us apart.

Jenny 19:45

The integrative piece is so important. Yeah. I could go on a on a soapbox about there's just so many different situations where it's like, okay, why is it you have to put an order in for this from a completely different department and you're not talking to this person, but yeah, there's a pill will die on too.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I know this I will is just integrative care really gives you an understanding of why your body's doing what it's doing too. To be to get this phone call, hey, this lab is off, we're gonna send you a pill. What about the why? What about my buy-in? I mean, if you can get your clients to buy in to their own health, yeah. You don't have to sell them anything.

Jenny 20:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

You don't have to prescribe you anything because you're prescribed to helping yourself figure it out.

Jenny 20:24

Exactly. And if you do have to take something, I'm a huge proponent, even if it's a supplement, understanding what that supplement is doing, the power of our thoughts and our thinking, and whether it's a supplement or a pill that's supposed to be helping something. If I can, I mean, maybe it's a bit woo-woo, but if I can put a layer of, okay, this is going in my body and it's doing this, right? It just it adds.

Kaitlyn (KK) 20:47

So and there's not a screen across saying these are all the side effects.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Scary. Yeah, um, it is if you have to say them that fast. One, there's too many. Two, did you want me to understand that? Because I have a problem with not clearly consenting to having those things happen to me.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

Yes, no, for sure. You said um chance of death, and I stopped listening. Oh my gosh.

Jenny 21:10

Okay, we're kind of jumping all over the place, but really today what we wanted to dive into is the idea of labs and your unique story. So getting curious about what something might say and why and how that fits into what Casey's looking at and into the woods offerings and all of that. So talk to us a little bit about your approach to looking at labs. I know when we've chatted prior to this, it's more about patterns versus specific labels.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yes. I mean, I believe all of your labs, as data, tell a story about what you're doing in your own day, and maybe even what you're not doing, right? What you're not hearing, what you are feeling. So I'm human. I'll always look at the numbers and make my own inference about what I'm seeing. This could be this, this could be. Happening here, I see high inflammatory markers, right? So I'm assuming there's stress. And I'll have all of those notes written down going into my lab review. But the first thing I do when I sit down is ask what life looks like right now. Hey, I see you're most of these, most of our clients are either brand new to us, interested in a certain pathway, or finishing up our nutrition program. Hey, I see you're finishing up our program. How did it go? How are you feeling? How are your daily choices? I get really, really curious about how they are. And I'll try to keep my inferences to myself. That's why I write them down so I can get them out of my brain. Sure. And really hear what they're thinking. Yeah. This went well. I feel really good. Here's all the things I want to celebrate. And then I can decide this actually meets what your story's saying. You're saying you're still under a ton of stress at work. I actually can see that right here. So I think it's really important for me. I do, I typically do a little bit of a grounding before I go into lab reviews to just get myself out of the way. Yeah. Here are my clients are at. That's probably my favorite part of the whole review process.

Jenny 22:57

Yeah. That is so cool. And it just feels different hearing you talk about it. Usually when I have had labs done in the past, it's okay, everything looks good, but your cholesterol is high. This is a little low, but we're not worried about it, right? And so to have somebody who's tell me about your day, how are you feeling? Right. And then looks at the data to say, all right, this aligns, or then ask questions from there. Absolutely.

Kaitlyn (KK) 23:25

And I think also like we don't put pressure on anybody. We're going to say, here's what we see, here's what we think, here's what we believe could help, and really giving them the choice instead of you're right, oh, it looks good except for this, here's a pill. And you feel obligated. You're like, okay, something's wrong. I must fix this. Whereas we're not saying that. We're going to give you options and explore it, which I think is totally different.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

I agree because you'll also have clients. I mean, in the medical world, we call them non-compliant, but I don't see noncompliance. I see something that's just not fitting your needs, or something that you don't believe yet, something that you don't believe you deserve. There's so much beyond that because we'll have clients after talking to them, I know they're not going to make diet changes. That's not part of their script. Or they're not able to get out and exercise. So then we have to find alternative ways to make this work. It wouldn't suit them if I said, I can see by your labs all of these things are wrong. I need you to go walk three times a week.

Jenny 24:24

Yeah. If they can.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

If they don't buy into that, it's not going to work. And we're here to have whole person results, not for me to mark non-compliant and I've done my job. I haven't done my job if I haven't found a way to help you.

Jenny 24:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

I've often wondered if there's a major stamp. I didn't have a word for it prior, but non-compliant. I ask a lot of questions, right?

Jenny 24:48

And so I've often wondered if I have a big major red something where they just know they're gonna have a difficult time with me.

Kaitlyn (KK) 24:55

But that is exactly what you'll see in my card as well. So you have white coat syndrome. I am just get me in, get me out. No questions, just I'm out. Okay, whatever. See you later. Yeah, to not see you again.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

So there aren't any white coats here.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

There is blood, blood draws, but there are no white coats. I think that's something beautiful that we offer too is time. Yeah. Now don't get me wrong, there are days where it's like we've got half an hour. I'm very upfront about we have half an hour to talk about this, but we can always have another appointment. Yeah. But we really have time to explore. I am not gonna come at you with three sheets of paper and say, here's what I see, what do you think you want to start? Here's four supplement choices. It's gonna be a discussion. It's always gonna be what can you start? What do you not care about? What do you want to see happen here?

unknown 25:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And some gentle nudging. I mean, if we're being really honest, you would have already changed if you could do it on your own. So we're just gonna nudge you.

Jenny 25:48

You gotta be realistic. Cause I think, again, being human, we live in some illusions sometimes where it's like, okay, I'll change now. Well, you've said that. And again, that's part of the human journey to keep trying and keep coming around exploring different avenues. But absolutely. I think there's also something really cool with what you said. You could come at this and say, all right, take these 10 supplements and go. But I've heard others that have gone through not just, I mean, some also integrative, holistic, some conventional, where they get this list of supplements and they don't really know what's doing what and why they're taking what they're taking, and it's really expensive. And not saying that things don't add up depending on what you're on here, but I think helping people understand, all right, start with this, right? Start with where they're at, have it match their story.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

And to know the why. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder, I mean, when you go to conventional medicine, sometimes you do ask questions and you don't get an answer. It's because I said so, or something really definitive like that. And I just don't think that's helpful.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

I I don't think if a client doesn't understand that just telling them because you have to trust me is enough. Because that's what they say. Yeah, they. I always wonder who they ever say they say. I ask that question all the time. I do, I agree. I think it's important to say step one, here's what I would do because you need these vitamins, right? To stimulate these markers, to stimulate these hormones, that there's building blocks to everything. To explain that to someone, yeah. Just helps them, like you said, buy into what it might be doing in your body. Absolutely. And maybe you do trick your mind sometimes to be like, I can feel these building blocks working, this foundation. Yeah. You do have to believe it's gonna work too.

Jenny 27:29

Yeah. We can call it tricking, we could call it biohacking, whatever, but it's like that's the power of our mind, right? It can be a hurdle. The mind can be a hurdle, but can it can also be really powerful? Cool. So let's talk a little bit about this idea. I've heard it multiple times. Ginger mentioned it last episode when we were talking about perimenopause, menopause, hormone stuff. But this idea of conventional medicine might be saying your hormones are normal. But if we were to come into the woods or perhaps other places, they might say, Well, let's look at this a little bit differently. Talk a little bit about that. Is there an overarching thought process behind that? Any specific stories that you might want to dive into?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

High cholesterol piece. Ah, yes. So we know that you actually need cholesterol as a building block to pretty much every function of your body. Cell membranes need cholesterol in order to stay whole and to be permeable to things to come in and out. Um, we know that your hormones need cholesterol. We know that you need cholesterol to build vitamin D, which we're in Wisconsin. So need it. Low vitamin D. Yeah. We know that you need that. So we also know that that means that you've got a great metabolic rate. So your body's metabolizing in a healthy way if your cholesterol is higher. So if you look at it from that perspective, we don't agree with Western medicine there with modern medicine, where we're trying to keep our cholesterol low. We're trying to wipe it out. I don't know why. I'm not sure how that got there. I have my own theories, but knowing that your body needs it, I want to see it a little bit higher. So you're not gonna come in here and me tell you your cholesterol is bad, even though that's what you've been hearing, and you're on a statin to lower your cholesterol. I'm actually gonna suggest, if you're in a healthy place, what if we look at that? What if we get it higher so that I can get your vitamin D up? So that I can have you walking through your day without a ton of brain fog. There's just that's a big one that sticks out to me that we see a lot. Um, and there's a ton of education around cholesterol as well. Yeah, there's good and bad cholesterol too. I don't like to use those words, but there is one we want higher and one we want lower.

SPEAKER_04 29:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

That is true. But overall, that's a big one that I see that requires a lot of education.

Jenny 29:35

Yeah. I think there's just such a black and white perspective around it where there really is gray area. It's very specific to each individual person, their health history, their genetics, all of the things come into play, right? Their lifestyle and and what they're doing day in and day out. So yeah. Are there any other markers that you would say usually this is something that most would just look over or would say this is a problem when maybe it's not.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah. Thyroid and vitamin D come to mind. So vitamin D, I believe when you go in, we want it like 30 to 50 if you go into a modern hospital. Okay. Here we're looking at like 80. Sure. Let's get your vitamin D up because I know you need that to build hormones, which a lot of our clients are like perimenopause, postmenopause, older clients. I mean, they need that blocks. Yeah. So looking at that, that was eye-opening for me actually too, coming here because I knew that it was important, but I didn't realize just how off we really were.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

When you look at thyroid as well, modern-day medicine is focusing on thyroid-stimulating hormone. We actually are looking at how much availability and how your body is converting certain thyroid hormones to the ones that we use for energy. So it's a different way to look at it. We actually don't even look at the TSH here. We look at free T3, which is built by your body's healthy ability to convert T4. So I know that that's a lot of like mumbo jumbo that it doesn't really matter to a lot of people, but to know that all this time you've been looking at a marker that may not be the most important one. Sure. Was eye-opening for me as well. Absolutely. You know, you kind of learn about that in nursing school, but then you get trained in modern medicine and you miss what's really happening in your body. Absolutely. Really looking at what's happening underneath everything here.

Jenny 31:20

It feels um I know we're saying modern medicine, traditional, conventional, right? But it's like, but I feel like that the whole idea of the future of medicine is evolving so much. And there's something really cool with the growth mindset of into the woods and doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Isn't that an Einstein quote for insanity? Like, and so I really think the future of medicine is this holistic approach, is questioning.

Kaitlyn (KK) 31:52

And we are seeing younger generation. We are seeing a lot more kids that are young, and I think because how awful our food is and what is all in there, but also from a generational standpoint, they value their health, I think, more than prior generations. They're questioning things, they are listening to themselves and being like, something is awesome. No thing. Yeah. Um, so that's been kind of a cool evolution to see as well. Um, because I think when they started, they had a much older population, and right now we're seeing a wide range of it. So yes, it is changing, it is evolving. I continue to tell the staff that we're five years ahead of the game, whether they want to listen to me on that or not.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

But I feel it because yeah, and inherently modern day medicine is is fine. There's nothing really wrong with going to the hospital when you need it. I do think that integrative approach of looking at what you thought you knew and maybe being willing to learn what else could be out there. Especially when you talk about optimizing, yeah, which is what we're great at here. We're great at saying you you could continue in this way and probably be fine. But is fine enough to go through your day fine with brain fog, joint pain. I don't want to say those things are normal.

Jenny 33:03

Just surviving versus thriving 100%.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Let's look at what's under it, which is gonna be different than what you've been seeing traditionally.

Jenny 33:10

Yeah, yeah. All right, so if you walked away from anything from that conversation, I think it really is the growth mindset of understanding there's so many more nuances, so many different perspectives. And that the labs that you might have drawn, it can be a starting point for a story, right? They don't have to be a final verdict. Think about stress on its own.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Stress affecting your cortisol, and then it's affecting your thyroid. And then I mean, there's just so much happening, your glucose, your I could go on forever. Those things can change. Maybe I caught you at the tail end of a six-month journey at work. Yeah. I took your labs. That's not helpful. Yeah. Maybe I caught you right dealing with family issues. There's so many health issues out there that you could be dealing with. Yeah. And in six months, when we redo this, by changing two things, they can look different.

Jenny 34:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

So you're right. It's it's more like a progress report, not really a report card. Yeah, yeah.

Jenny 34:07

And that goes back to that idea of let's have some maybe smaller check-ins here and there versus one big lab panel, maybe once a year or even further out. Yeah. That curiosity over shame is so important. And really creating the safety is what I'm hearing. The safety, that that psychological safety to say, okay, show up as you. Let's be real. Yeah. We understand you're human. We're not expecting perfection.

Kaitlyn (KK) 34:35

Well, and uh the other cool thing is that we're all going through this. I mean, I might not be getting my labs drawn at the moment, but I know I know where to go at some point. But I have gone through the program. I'm doing other modalities through us. And each team member can not only speak from a professional standpoint, but a personal standpoint on their journey too. And I think that that really helps to have that mixed bag and let know that we're in it with them absolutely as well. Yeah. That's us staying curious, that's us being a part of it with them, which you may not get in a conventional study.

Jenny 35:07

Exactly, exactly. Standard doctor's office for sure. I will always feel better if somebody that I already have a level of trust with says, Well, if this were me, or so I'm a dog mom. So when I have stuff going on with my dogs, the vet that I I've told him I love him, I'm probably scared.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

But if I hear them say there's another marker on her chart there. I probably do. Yeah. I tell a lot of people that I love them. So some people I think think it's weird.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Anyways, we like weird. Weird's great.

Jenny 35:38

Yeah. But, anyways, where I was going before I went off and got weird was I it always adds an extra level of comforts and knowing if I hear someone say and believe it when they say, Well, if this were me or if this were my loved one, this is what I would do, or this is what I have done, and this is what I saw. So 100% those stories and that lived experience right alongside help a ton.

Kaitlyn (KK) 36:04

Awesome. Well, and it's just great that we have so many success stories too. So that's why I do have the data. Yeah, I mean, we we can see that what we're doing in the books. And so that word of mouth, oh, this person went through this. I want to try this. Caitlin, I see this. And so that's been really cool and has contributed to the organic growth of us, is because I really believe in the outcomes. I have no problem backing that, which I think again creates that sense of community, that family-like feeling, and that no matter what, you're gonna feel that way when you walk in the doors.

Jenny 36:37

Yeah, yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 36:38

So that's always exciting.

Jenny 36:40

Very cool. Well, we've talked about this idea of the nervous system connection, stress, all of that playing into labs. Casey, you've mentioned in our chats and prep for this this idea of the human condition. How would you fold that into labs and the stories that are unfolding about our wellness?

SPEAKER_00 36:59

The biggest one I see is someone's willingness to change. Okay. And not change because I said you need to, right? You didn't come into the lab review and I said, man, this is really terrible. You need to do something about this. My experience with the human condition is that's not helpful unless you're the type of person that reacts to that. Really getting to the bottom and to the root of what makes someone want to change? What makes someone uncomfortable? Why are they actually here? I actually recently had a client who she couldn't quite figure out what it was that she wanted. She thought she wanted to maybe lose some weight through the program. She thought maybe just more energy, but it really came down to I'm so stressed out in my job. I don't know how to change it. It's affecting all my relationships. I just want help. Like I want out of this. She thought maybe weight loss will make it feel better. Yeah. While it probably will. Short term though. Yeah, I have no doubt about her progress in this nutrition program. It was just so much deeper.

Jenny 37:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

And just feeling safe, like you like you said it in such a great way, having somewhere where you can come and just trust that was enough.

Jenny 38:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Um that was enough. And you'll see your lab markers change. I mean, that would be a great benefit of creating a stress-free environment and somewhere where you can go to say, I don't know what I need. And someone can just hear you in that.

unknown 38:16

Yeah.

Jenny 38:17

I mean, that 100% weaves in that mental health. The stories that we tell ourselves impact the stories that are unfolding in our lab work and beyond, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

It's not, it's not the fact that you didn't eat broccoli. That's not why your relationship with your daughter is awful right now, right? I mean, I would love to put it on that unless you made her when she was younger and it's a trigger now. But yes, there's just so much else beneath the surface that I don't even think as humans that we give ourselves enough time to unfold. Yeah. I don't believe that everyone needs a coach or a therapist, even though we'd all benefit. You're wrong. Um, but I do believe you need someone to just witness you.

unknown 38:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

And if I have to use these labs as a mirror to show you the choices you've been making every day, I love that. It's a beautiful place. And I feel honored to be there and just hold that. It's awesome. That is really awesome.

Kaitlyn (KK) 39:08

And it's not just like healing, it's messy AF, like my first book says. But and it really is not a total straight line, right? I don't think it can be.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah. No matter how hard we try, the perfectionism in all of us, yes. We just can't.

Kaitlyn (KK) 39:22

Yeah. And so also not only us keeping that curious and open mindset, but for the client too. Because listen, here we think, and we're gonna try, and you're gonna have full support around that, but it's not a straight line. Yeah. And that's healing in general. And I think it is the exact same thing when it comes to your labs too.

Jenny 39:41

Absolutely. Yeah. Cool, beautiful. Anything else you'd want to highlight about your labs, the stories, the journeys here?

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I do like the idea of not considering a failure. I really love growth mindset. So seeing through that lens, I would just say using it as a starting point. Here's something that I'd like to optimize, or here's something that I don't really care about. If we look at your labs and you decide I actually don't care about that at all and I'm not willing to make that change, um, I think we get to get really curious and then move on to something that you are willing to change. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, when you can feel 1% better, you're probably gonna want to keep feeling better. And we might come back to that in six months and say, I know we talked about this, you didn't like that idea. How are you feeling now? Yeah. Because people change. Yes. Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 40:28

But it's also giving people choice. Yes. And that autonomy that has been taken away because of the systems that have been in place. Cool, fine. It is what it is. But like this does give you autonomy and choice, and also not only from a clinical perspective, but that can be very, very scary. And as much as we might not like, oh, your labs are good, and here's a pill, you don't have to think, right? It's okay, this is what I'm going to what's gonna fix it. Exactly. And it may or may not, and then it might be another pill, and then you've got 10 pills later, but you're still just kind of but here it's it is autonomy, which can be very empowering, but can also be scary as well. Yeah, so which is why you have all of our service exactly through that, right? Exactly.

Jenny 41:09

No one you can talk to about that, exactly. The services, the people who take the time, who actually care. It just all adds up to create a really unique experience. Okay, sign me up for labs.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

I'm still good right now. We'd have to get creative. The future of medicine.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Let's get creative about how we can draw blood without while I'm sleeping up those foot sticks like the infants are, so that we don't have to.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Oh no, no, your expression there was not.

Kaitlyn (KK) 41:38

I have one vein in my right arm that is the only one that works. I've been poked and prodded.

Jenny 41:44

Yeah, and there's just don't like it. Yeah, no, I'm not not fan. Yeah, I was gonna say there's obviously some stories there that go deeper.

Kaitlyn (KK) 41:51

Go in and get out.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Yeah, maybe you need some EMDR. Yes, I've tried it on myself because it didn't work out so well. Is that helping? I do know people though, so yes.

Jenny 42:04

Awesome. All right, well, this has been really great as far as I think opening up people's mindsets, bringing in more curiosity, less guilt, less less shame, less negative self-talk about the choices we make. I mean, we need awareness around the choices, having exactly what you're doing, that space to hear somebody reflect back, you know, what they're hearing, what they're seeing, and what could help is a huge help. Awesome. But yeah, I think if you walk away from this conversation and have more curiosity around your labs and the stories that they tell, this episode has done its job.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Absolutely. I don't think I've ever met someone and I'm like, gosh, you are really doing terribly. It's just not a thought that crosses my mind, especially knowing all of us have different views of how we live our day, what we want out of our life, what health really looks like. So I find it like a really fun puzzle. And if someone really wants to get in there and nitpick it, let's do it. If you like to just stay back and kind of let it unfold the way it's going, you can do that too.

Kaitlyn (KK) 43:08

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

It's all customized.

Kaitlyn (KK) 43:10

And I just tell people, well, we just look at the labs and we go under. We're like at the soil, right? Yeah. Instead of where conventional is kind of at the top of it. So if you are listening or know somebody that is curious, we can do that for you. Um, and that is essentially our core value is getting to the root of it. Um, and I really believe that the labs tell that story along with everything else that we do. So yeah.

Jenny 43:35

And I there might be hurdles going through people's minds knowing that into the woods doesn't take insurance, but there's ways that you can come at this. And I know Teresa was saying it's not as expensive as you would think.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Especially when you consider what you're already paying for your insurance, and now we're figuring out HSA for some things. There really, there's so many avenues to make that work.

Jenny 43:55

Absolutely. So if you are at all curious, frustrated with maybe. Maybe your current experiences with conventional medicine, do not hesitate to reach out, ask questions, schedule discovery call. The team here would be happy to explore and listen and see what your story has to say.

Kaitlyn (KK) 44:15

What your puzzle looks like.

Jenny 44:16

Exactly. Awesome. All right. Well, that's it for today then. Be well, be still, become. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us. We'd also love to connect with you. Reach out at info at into the woodsjourney.com or visit our website at www.intothewoodsjourney.com to explore your path to wellness. From the bottom of our hearts, thank you so much for listening.