Leading Well: Leadership, Burnout & Building a Wellness-First Team Culture

This episode features a roundtable with Kelly, Casey, Kaitlyn and Jenny on “Leading Well,” focusing on leadership and wellness, burnout, and supporting team health. 

In this episode, we explore: 

• Personal experiences of being thrown into leadership young, perfectionism and the achiever trap, and how values and seasons of life (including parenting and entrepreneurship) shape stress and self-care. 
• Burnout as a chronic stress response that never turns off, common symptoms (irritability, brain fog, sleep issues), and the importance of outlets. 
• Personal, practical strategies such as prioritizing 15–20 minutes daily, energy audits
• Team leadership strategies including modeling transparency, one-on-ones – as well as the importance of psychological safety, trust, delegation, and culture-building
• Into the Woods’ wellness services, memberships, and workplace wellness presentations.

00:00 Meet the Panel

00:15 Why Leadership Wellness Matters

05:11 Quick Fire This or That

09:03 Health Takes a Backseat

13:16 Achiever Trap and Rest

15:48 Team Culture and Trust

18:40 Values and Boundaries

21:31 Entrepreneur Achievement Trap

24:28 Parenting and Priorities

26:10 Burnout in the Body

29:56 Leader Burnout Ripple

31:23 Grace and Transparency

33:26 Make Time for You

35:43 Energy Audit Reframe

37:18 Avoidance and Processing

38:59 One-on-Ones and Safety

40:53 Culture Building Ideas

43:05 Wellness Perks at Work

45:23 Whole Person Programs

49:21 Workplace Wellness Talks

50:59 Wellness on Wheels

51:44 Final Takeaways

For more wellness pathway support:

🌲 Visit www.intothewoodsjourney.com
 📞 Call 920-904-8128
 📍 1424 Lynn Ave, Fond du Lac, WI
 ✉️ info@intothewoodsjourney.com

Follow us on social media @intothewoodswellnessfdl for daily inspiration, wellness tips, and community stories.

Transcript

Jenny 0:00

Okay, this one's for the high achievers out there, the do-it-all professionals, the business owners, and the parents holding it all together. Today we're exploring Samana's questions about leading well. When was the last time you prioritized your own health with the same intensity you gave everything else? And more importantly, why that matters more than you think.

Kaitlyn (KK) 0:22

Welcome to Rooted in Rising, a podcast by Into the Woods Wellness. I'm Caitlin Keneally, coming to you from our nature-inspired sanctuary in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. Grab your tea, get comfortable, and let's dive into real talk that empowers your healing journey.

Jenny 0:41

Today we have Kelly and Casey, and then obviously Kate Kay and I. Avi. Avi. What are we talking about today?

Kaitlyn (KK) 0:51

We are talking about leaders and wellness, currently. Yeah. I think so.

Jenny 0:55

Leading well. Yeah. And not just in how we lead, but taking care of ourselves as we look at the people that are coming into the woods, as we look at some of the corporate and organizational stuff that you guys are starting to do in the area now. This topic feels really relevant and important because our wellness is the last thing we should be putting to the bottom of the to-do list. And I know many people, including myself, have done it.

Kaitlyn (KK) 1:21

Yeah. I think I go in and out. As a clinician, I take it very seriously. And I don't want to ask my clients to do anything I'm not willing to do myself, but I do have moments where I will, specifically the physical piece, throw that to the side. Yeah. That's probably my biggest one. But otherwise, it's every morning. I'm pretty strict with my routine.

Jenny 1:39

That's great. Well, I have a this or that for us to dive into. But before we get to that, I want to go around and have everyone speak to whether that's their story or the lens that they're bringing to today's topic around leadership and wellness and team support, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

So, Kelly, this one is near and dear to my heart. Because, well, and I calculated again. Now it's 30 years of leadership experience. I somehow I just keep getting older, but it's been an incredible path. And I took the weekend to look back at my leadership development and the different capacities that I was utilizing, or lack thereof, my actual leadership abilities that I did or didn't have, because you get thrown into it and you don't just know how to lead. You learn by doing, you fall, you fall hard sometimes, and you learn from all those mistakes. And thankfully, I was, you know, Sultan Pepperdin, some really incredible mentors that had those difficult conversations, but then also taught me it's very near and dear. I hope that we can connect with everyone, no matter what the leadership phase they're in right now. I was a 19-year-old brand new manager, didn't know what the heck I was doing, but I did the best I could. There's a different level of stress there. There's a different level of stress. If you're single, no kids, then you start having kids. It evolves with your life. And I think there's so many different aspects of stress and places where you don't take care of yourself that hopefully we can connect with people and give them some tips and tools and they can relate.

Jenny 3:16

Absolutely. And you bring a really amazing mind-body connection with your various experiences too. So lived experience and then the I guess trained but also lived experience. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 3:29

I just think we're all leaders in our own way, right? You could be the leader of a freaking spreadsheet for all I care because I need someone like that. But yes, it changes, it evolves over time. And then that's really what I hope people take away is that in some way, shape, or form, they are leading something and to really reflect on how they're showing up to that.

Jenny 3:48

Absolutely. And then of course, you'll bring your licensed therapist lens, the mental health, on top of again, your experience with bouncing around maybe a little bit on the physical side of things. But yeah, okay, we want this to be a real conversation too. And Casey, how about you?

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Yeah. Speaking on both of those terms, I also started as leadership young, thrown into it. I had no idea what I was doing, but I looked super confident. So everyone thought this was a great idea. Fell really hard or did really well, but just burnt out. So really struggling through all of those levels and learning what works for me. It works for me to work at midnight and to keep my phone on, but then to take two days off during the week. You know, whatever that looks like, supporting leaders exactly where they're at in their phases. You are going to have phases where you're not exercising, you're not eating well, but you're finishing a great project that no one else but you could have put that spin on. Um, and then learning to dial that back and really recover. Yeah, absolutely.

Jenny 4:45

And then Casey, if you recall from last episode, is ARN here. So you're of course going to have your own experience with leadership throughout your career and at home. As you all have kind of touched on, there are so many different places and ways to lead, right? I mean, we can lead in our community volunteer. We can lead our families, whether we have children or not, right? My brothers, they might disagree, but I feel like I am being the oldest daughter, I am a strong leader in the family from that perspective. But yeah, it's it's just interesting. I was very quiet and when I first got into the work world, uh, a bit shy. And then once I got more confidence, I was one of those people that you maybe couldn't get to to stop talking because all of the ideas were flowing and I was confident to share. So I I feel like I just naturally step into leadership roles because all right, I have ideas, let's talk, let's make this happen, right?

Kaitlyn (KK) 5:41

Yeah, somebody's gotta do it. So it might as well be me.

Jenny 5:44

Yeah. I think it'll be a great conversation today as we put the leadership spin around wellness and everything else that comes with being a leader. So let's do a quick fire round of this or that. Okay morning workout or evening wind down?

Kaitlyn (KK) 6:00

In the morning, because my eyes are barely open.

Jenny 6:04

Morning workout. Morning workout. Morning workout for me, but I am not consistent. So yeah, I realized it also is really helpful for me to have a transition. I work from home a lot. I don't have the drive time to unwind. So an evening wind down or after work window is helpful. So I kind of need both, but yeah. You can have both. Yeah, you get to do that. I get to choose that. Calendar block your self-care or squeeze it in when you can.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

I squeeze it in when I can. I'd like to say I'm a little more structured, but I'm not.

Kaitlyn (KK) 6:38

Uh mine's always blocked, so mine is the calendar time.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Good. Mine is calendar blocked now. I was always squeezing it in, but now we have four kids, right? Juggling a couple different things. I have to block it out, or it's not it's not happening. Sure.

Jenny 6:54

I have to be real. I tried to calendar it, but it's always squeezing it in. So room for improvement. Power through a tough week or take a mental health day.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

I have always been the power through it girl. No matter what, you just keep going until it's over with. But I think interestingly enough, working remotely, being able to be at home and be in your own safe space and not be bombarded by people all day, that helped me a little bit with stepping back from it all a little bit. So you're you're powering through it, but you get a little a little space.

Kaitlyn (KK) 7:34

So uh power through.

unknown 7:37

Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 7:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

I'm also a power through girl. I will stay up day and night to finish something, but then you burn out. So right, finding a way to do both. If I can power through because I have my headphones in and I went for a run while I'm thinking about this project at work, that feels like that's productive. Yeah.

Jenny 7:54

I also power through because there's usually deadlines or something driving the busy tough week, right? And so it's one of those things where I don't always feel like I have the capacity or time to say, time out, I need space. So you just you figure it out and then you recover. Delegate more or do it yourself because it's faster.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

My 19-year-old later did it myself because it was faster and it was done right, and didn't work out in the end. It's a very stressful way to look at it. But my golden years here have been able to delegate more and learn how to trust and teach and allow others to take the reins.

Kaitlyn (KK) 8:35

Yeah. I'm still working on this one. I think because I've been so independent that I forget sometimes that I have a team around me to help with. So work in progress, but delegating more would be better.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Yeah. Same. I was burned back in my early leadership days in interviews, and they're like, look, you're great, but you don't delegate enough. We don't want you. So then it went, then it went really heavy to the learn to delegate and teach and really be that person, the connector. But now I'm kind of in survival mode a little bit with our changes at home and really trying to find ways to trust my team more, trust people enough to say, hey, I really need this from you. So also a work in progress right now.

Jenny 9:15

Yeah. I've been kind of on my own these last couple of years with my own freelance business. And obviously stepping into the team here and having Sam as an intern's been really helpful. And I've got some perfectionist tendencies. So I want to delegate more, but sometimes when it's like, okay, well, I'd have to walk through this. And in this case, Sam is great, and she's more than willing to learn. So I know it is faster sometimes, but um, I'm a work in progress, long story short. We are forever in this sense. When did you first realize your own health was taking a back seat to your ambition responsibilities?

SPEAKER_02 9:55

All right. So, in reflecting on this one, this goes back. So I was a director of operations for a large company. It was a man's world. We worked hard and played hard, and it was like I was molding myself into this male version of what I needed to be, which came with a lot of shame of not being present for my kids. Traveled down the road a lot. So this encompasses everything. Dying out for every meal, yeah, overconsumed alcohol. Again, work hard, play hard. Yeah. Um, so like physically, it was taking a toll. It's not sleeping good because you're in hotels and you're drinking and eating unhealthily. Then my mental health, that's shame. And the missing out on my kids' time, not knowing how to balance that work life thing. You know, I was chasing the dollar and chasing the accolades and trying to be best. Yes, I'm a perfectionist too, and I'm very competitive. So, like the whole thing was I was just so corporate driven and I was buried in that.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

So it took a little bit of a fall to be able to see that, to leave that and and step into something where I can become a little more present for myself, present for my family, but we can talk about that a little bit later too. I think values is something that I learned from that. So we'll jump into that later. Perfect.

Kaitlyn (KK) 11:19

But like I said, since being a clinician, I really want to practice what I preach. And so I just am very I will hit on all the wheels, except I will throw physical health right out the door. I'm so aware of myself and I'm right, but I will then pick it back up. So I don't really let myself get into too much of the shame cycle. Yeah, but I take what I do very seriously. So having my career has helped me focus on my health a whole lot more to be that person. And then also to admit this is my downfall. And I think that people resonate with that instead of me being like, Oh, I'm so perfect, and I have it all together in every single arena. This one's gonna fall off, but you can kind of pick it back up.

Jenny 11:59

So that's why I'd say that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Well, you can mine was about 10 years ago as well. So I had this leadership and management degree. I'd been a nurse for at least, I don't know, five or six years, something like that. And I was like, this is the time. This is when everyone hits management, this is when everyone does these things. So yeah, chasing the dream, not home enough with my daughters at the time, that guilt of not participating, daycares raising them, the whole thing, alcohol to really make it feel better, partying three nights a week, playing volleyball, just all the things. Sure. And I couldn't figure out why I just hated everything. Sure. You know, I just nothing made me happy. And I'm like, this is not normal. And is that success? Okay, so you finally get your leadership position, but I don't want it. Yeah, so I just kind of burned it all down. And I was like, there has to be another way. And I agree, that's when I found more faith, exercise routine, more structure at home, values, things that really I enjoyed. So I couldn't find those before.

Jenny 12:55

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I think it's interesting when we actually realize that we're pining after that position or that title. I worked with an author a couple of years back that was all about he called it ladder burning. Instead of, you know, pursuing, and there's nothing wrong with the pursuit and being a ladder climber, wanting to get to a certain spot. But working with him for a while there, then I would say for myself, it was maybe maybe n five to eight years ago, somewhere in there. And I as we've shared, there's seasons, right, where we come back around or something falls off. For me, working out consistently, physical health is one of those things. But I just got to a point where I realized my mental health wasn't that great, and I wasn't paying attention to the signs my body was giving me, the simple things. I just wasn't listening. And as soon as I started doing that, the rest started to fall into place. So again, it's a constant journey, but it is one of those things as we transition into the the full meat of today's episode. I was often praised for my ability to spin multiple plates, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Oh, multi-caster masker. Yes, you're the one.

Jenny 14:12

Yeah. And I have a strong achiever tendencies. Yes. I have a competition element of me.

Kaitlyn (KK) 14:19

Yeah, it's like my first one that's on there. I'm a whole executive. Sure. It's all purple. Yeah. Like four out of the five. It's a possibility. So, like, if something's gonna get done, get it on games, play it.

Jenny 14:29

Yeah, you're gonna get it through the finish line. So it is such an interesting world out there where I mean, again, we need to get things done. I'm not saying that that isn't a a thing to praise. And there needs to be balance because there is this tremendous achievement or achiever trap. And I know we talked about it a little bit on the last episode that that's a really it's why it's so important for achievers to have that moment to step back and maybe have somebody reflect. Hey, what about this? What about that? How is your mental health, your stress, you know, all of those things? So, what makes a great leader obviously is all of that that drive, getting things done, being motivated, ambitious, taking risks, not afraid of challenges. And we don't often praise for rest or no, it's typically shame.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

And I reflected on that a little bit too. Like when you're a leader, you don't take PTO and you don't take time off, and you work 60 hours a week because you need to be there. And that there's a different kind of mentality where you think you need to be on and there and working 24-7 to prove to the team maybe that you're working so hard, or yeah, or you think you set the tone for the team to do the same thing too. And then if someone calls in sick or they take PTO, there's a shame that comes behind that instead of rest up, take care, like a genuine compassion for people. There's it's a fine line, I'll tell you that.

Jenny 16:00

Yeah, I felt a lot of guilt because I I worked with a great team for about seven years, and they had and oh, what do they call it? Um they didn't have a vacation policy, so it was like take whatever you need, unlimited PTO. Yeah. And so it wasn't like they didn't want you to take it, they wanted you to take it in a respectful, responsible way. But anytime I did take it, I felt guilty. It's like, what is this? Why? What have you all seen when it's come to teams that have found that balance? Are there certain things that have been supportive from leaders, from team cultures? What comes up for me is trust first.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

I feel like in teams where I haven't felt guilty, saying, I honestly just don't feel well today, or look, I just did this big thing, which your team would already know because you put it out for them. I just need a break. And I felt like I could trust my team enough to say that. There's something about having the same value, the same mission on your team that really just helps them recognize burnout in you too. I've had it reflected back to me. Do you you're doing a lot? And when they ask, do you need a break? It's more rhetorical. Like, I see you, and you need a break. Um, I I know you're up here and that's awesome, but we need you there for years. So go home. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Beautiful. Yeah, and in in management positions. So you're always gonna have the one that uses every second of their PTO, and you're not sure if they're really sick, or you know, there's always a question there, but and then there's the one who never ever leaves work and and has this bank of PTO. So for the most part, everybody else falls in the middle, but again, that's shame that's still there. So being able to be supportive of people, respecting their time off. So that's a big one, too, is getting the phone calls, getting the text, not being able to live without people when they're gone is a problem. That means you're not doing your job as a leader teaching, empowering, trusting. Like they think they have to call you to get the clearance for everything, or they're gonna be in trouble. You know, there's so many different aspects to that, too.

Kaitlyn (KK) 18:09

Yeah. Yeah. When I had a really good team, we were just fully staffed and everybody was super helpful. So if someone was gonna be out, we knew exactly. So to me, everything flowed and it wasn't ever really an issue. We weren't shamed or anything like that. Me personally, like I show up to work no matter what. That is a part of my value system, but I don't expect everybody else to be the exact same way that I am. But like, unless I'm puking or really sick, I'm gonna be at work, and that's just who that is a value of mine, and that has been instilled in me is that you do that, but it's not necessary that everybody has that same mentality either. But when it worked, it was because we were fully staffed and it was just like this revolving door, and we didn't have to think about this stuff. So that was kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Jenny 18:57

There are a lot of situations where teams are maybe picking up because they're not fully staffed or budget cuts, right? So somebody has to step in. And I think even with that, if we can as a team come together and have some agreements, maybe it is the values of the organization. I know you were starting to talk to that. Does that fit into some of this, you think?

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Potentially, yeah. So I mean, when I was a young leader, I didn't know what my values were. My values were my friends and my partying, and that we didn't even know that was something to identify.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Yeah, I don't feel like that ever came up in a leadership conversation 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

I just did and I was buried and I pressed on. So as I evolved and changed, and that's where I was like, gosh, you know, this place really doesn't align with my values. What are my values? I could explore that, and then I did leave that organization because I realized it did not align with my values. Sadly, it's too late because things unfold. So hopefully our listeners can identify their values and see if that is within their career or not. But when it came to being short-staffed at a lot of places, there's people who had boundaries, hard boundaries. I will not work more than what I'm required to work, which you almost have to respect that as well, because that's their value, that's their boundary. It's a tough one if your value system is different. Because then there is the other person who is gonna do anything it takes. They are working nights, weekends, working overtime. That's their value system. But it does cause burnout. So I think the tough part is getting them all to work together with the values that they do have.

Kaitlyn (KK) 20:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

That makes sense. Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 20:37

And I think it's fair to say that over time your values are gonna change. So what your thought was in your early 20s versus your late 20s, your 30s, your 40s, your 50s, like it's it's evolving, but I don't think our modern workforce, well, I think now they're like, oh crap, I better get on board, especially when there's so many different generations, and each generation has a different value and has a different what they bring to the table. So I actually think I talk about it in my second book, that leadership is traumatic. Like yeah, if you're not ready for all the different classes, yeah. And if you haven't been properly trained in that either, although you may display all of those skills, I have always been a leader in every single job that I have done. It has just naturally been that way, which is what has brought me to this. But I would say I never went into positions looking for a higher title, looking for those things. I just always focus on wanting to do quality work. So that has never changed, but and I always knew I was going to be an entrepreneur too. So it's actually an evolution to be back into having a team when for almost six years it was yeah, you know, me and then maybe one person. Yeah, exactly. So those phases and those seasons, the more you know about yourself, which I'll go back to healing, like not that you're gonna be perfect, you never Will be when you're navigating it, but knowing, oops, I didn't show up to that conversation the greatest. Oops, that will that threw me off a little bit. I should go back and revisit that. And I think that that comes with time.

Jenny 22:10

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I I think it's interesting too. I mean, there's there's so much around achievement that is nurtured in the workplace and the values conversation, and whether that's individual or generational, and as a team coming together. When you look at entrepreneurs, though, it feels like it can be a whole nother ball game. You're everything. Sometimes, depending on where you're at, you're the only one. So, what are your what are your thoughts in in regard to that achievement trap for entrepreneurs?

SPEAKER_03 22:48

I think remembering your why has to be primary because otherwise, why would you keep going? Why would you want to feel like this for 20 hours a day for the next two years until you're up and running? Yeah. Why would I want to do this? I think your values really have to be there and you have to be so deeply integrated that it's worth spending your time on every day.

unknown 23:08

Yeah.

Jenny 23:09

That's great. Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 23:10

I don't know. As an entrepreneur, I just always knew it was in me. I never like I knew in these positions I wasn't going to be a lifer. And not that that's a bad thing, but I always still showed up, did my best, achieved what I needed to, always left on good terms, like still have connections to almost every single place I worked. Um, because that was a value of mine, even though I knew it wasn't forever. I still wanted to leave that lasting impression. And as an entrepreneur, because I had all of that, it was the quality of the care. And so very successful outcomes, very successful watching patients, you know, meet their goals. So to me, it was just all of a sudden, then you get that intrinsic boom, and then you're like, Yes, I'm on it again. I don't know. I feel like it's the it's a positive view. Yeah, yeah. It really does. And so that was my why. And then now transitioned to this role too. So yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a ride though. But um, I almost think because step, I think stepping into this role actually, because they had been two years in, I actually think coming in to this role was harder to do than starting my own. I don't know if you'll agree with that, Kelly, or not. But I this was just my experience of that, like stepping into it with the dynamics and everything. I think that actually this was harder to do than being an entrepreneur because when you're an entrepreneur, it's all new and fresh.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

You're almost unemployable as an entrepreneur because this is what you want.

Kaitlyn (KK) 24:39

That's why you created it that way. So yeah, it's been an interesting season, an interesting wave of all of it. But again, when you find passion, mission, and purpose, and I love what I do, like I wouldn't take any of it back because everything has led to the next thing. Yeah, that's kind of special too.

Jenny 24:56

Yeah. What everybody is sharing, their lived experiences is great. I love the values, the understanding where your passion, mission, purpose are all at, knowing your why and how it all comes together are it's all critical. What about parents and the achievement achiever trap? Is there anything you'd highlight from that perspective? Trying to do it all, be it all, especially as women.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

I I feel like it does go back to values and boundaries, I think. And again, sadly, I have to say this from a retrospective. I wish I had someone that could tell me that before I went through it all. But I knew, but I didn't realize that my family was that important to me because I was too busy chasing the money and the success and the dreams and doing what I thought I needed to do it at the time to provide for my family. But momming is difficult. Stay-at-home moms, working moms, part-time, full-time, whatever it is, no matter what it is, the dynamic is difficult. So I honestly think you just do the best that you can because that's all you do in every stage of motherhood is you do the best you can. You do reflect sometimes and go, ooh, shucks. But you know, it is what it is. And I think your kids forgive you, especially I'm hoping when they become parents. Well, tell me, like, I get it now, mom. Obviously, I can't speak for fatherhood either, but I think just if if being present for your family is a value, then then be present for your family and and your work will make a way to make both things happen.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Yeah. Or you'll make work that works with it, right? I I agree. Parenting is a beast of a thing to do, and it's all consuming. Your thoughts, your actions, everything, the jobs you pick, how much money you want or need to make, it's everything. But yeah, I think you make it work if that's your priority. You find things that fit.

Jenny 26:52

Well, let's find a bit to burnout. Yeah. Because it's obviously very common. And it's more than feeling tired. There's a lot going on physiologically in the body, in the mind. And part of this conversation is wanting to support leaders, getting to the root cause and stepping back and looking at all this. But Casey, well, anybody here, do you want to step in and speak to burnout and what's happening in our body? Not only do we want to talk about this high level, but we want leaders to step back and all right, check in with your gut, your stress levels, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_03 27:29

Yeah. I mean, if we talk about on a root cause level, so you've got the stress response system in your body that you're activating, but there's this big deadline or big project coming up, a big team to lead, whatever it is. And your body's functioning as if you're running from a bear, which is helpful. It gives me adrenaline, it gives me energy, it gives me the ability to stay awake longer and just do what I need to get done. But the problem that we see with leaders in burnout is it never turns off. We just stay in that state for way too long. And then our body is just regulated to this new state, and you're not meant to sustain it.

unknown 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

You you give out and you don't even notice it. So now you're irritable. Now you have brain fog, you can't make those decisions from a grounded place because your body hasn't been grounded for months and the project's over. So then we just have leaders like, what happened to me? I hate this job. It's not the job. Yeah, absolutely.

Kaitlyn (KK) 28:22

My whole insides, I just it feels I'm fried. The best way I can describe it is like you see a wire that is just completely fried, and that's how it feels on the inside. I'd probably say for me that when I had the Ignite class and so the Woody, and then also um being on stage singing. So those two things back to back, I was fried after that and took a little bit of time to recover. Again, I'm so aware of it now. I know what it feels like. And so I try to take my weekends to recover and get a lot of that solitude, and that's what I've been trying to do these past three weekends, and so I do feel a lot better. But yeah, my whole nervous system just feels fried, and I know I've pushed myself too far. I probably do that a little bit more often than I should. But yes, you become more irritable, short, not showing up as your best self. Those are my symptoms. So the more you know, the better you're gonna be able to identify it and then hopefully move through it.

unknown 29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, that nervous system. And sometimes you don't come out of it, so then you're irritable and you are not a good leader then. Sometimes leaders crash, they get violently ill. Um, or then they're out of work. I mean, and thinking about this, we hold all of our stress in our body. And if you're not doing anything to get it out, and I'm talking like it can be physical. So, like a good run, workout, walk, whatever you do for physical health, that can help get your stress out. Meditation can help. And now when you talk about meditation, it can be listening to music. So if you're in your car driving and you're just screaming at the top of your lungs and letting it out, you have to have an outlet of some sort, otherwise, it's stored in your body. I mean, we're talking heart attack. People could have struggles and they could be healthy, but that stress is going to take them out. So, yeah, I mean, it you got to be careful because sometimes people don't know that they're in that because they're just doing that's their job, and they don't even have time to think about their health, whether it be mental health or physical health. But it's all very scary. And if you can pay attention to those signs of fear crashing at night and just sleeping hard, waking up and you're not refreshed, or you can't sleep at all and you're up all night buzzing, you know. Yeah, the wired and tired. Yeah. I mean, you could have a whole rainbow of symptoms. So I think from a leadership standpoint, that's where hopefully we can get into corporations and talk to the levels of leadership so that we can help them recognize that so they can make the changes that they need to in their life.

Kaitlyn (KK) 30:55

Yeah, because people are looking up to you. And that's that's another thing I forget too, that there's so much staff, right? And I am. I'm very used to just let's get done. So it's I like I will have my blinders on. It's not intentionally, but I do notice that about myself and I just need to be better at it. But I kind of forget too that they're they're watching you walk around and seeing and checking on your moods too. So if you are really burnt out, they're gonna notice those things.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

And you can feel a nervous system, right? You can feel someone walk into a room, especially your leader who you're looking up to and looking for guidance. I can feel when you're not wanting to be here, you're not all in today. Well, oh, okay. So now I'm unsure. Am I all in? Do you want to be here? Do you like me? Like, right? It causes this ripple effect or your whole team. Yeah. Because nervous system is small.

Kaitlyn (KK) 31:44

I mean, yeah, but like I think it makes a bigger impact than we were with 500 people. Absolutely. And everyone would say exactly. Yeah. Whereas like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

And we're working with smaller teams, right? I mean, we're working with local companies that have just a few hundred employees. So they're all gonna notice our leaders aren't present today.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Well, and let's face it, so let's allow ourselves a little grace. Every day is a new day. So some day we might come to work and you are not on. So, like, you have to allow yourself that grace and maybe even tell your team, like, yo, I slept for crap last night.

Kaitlyn (KK) 32:18

Last week I actually had haven't had a migraine, but I didn't say I'm sorry, I'm not my best self today because I was looking like a zombie, but I didn't lose my vision, so that was good. But I it came out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

So it's sharing that aloud, your team. I mean, at least personally, when I walk and I see you're not feeling well, knowing it's not right, I just hate it here, whatever could be the thing. It's just I have a migraine today, kind of allows other people to just find security in their own nervous system. Yeah, okay, fine. Today we're good. Yep, you have an off day, awesome. The rest of the team can still function because you're aware, right, of what you have happening, and we can yeah, we can deal with that.

Kaitlyn (KK) 32:53

Yep. So I think it's all I think leadership is a complete learning curve. Oh, absolutely. And that constantly. Yeah. And I don't think you ever just become the leader. I don't know. I haven't met them yet, but it'd be cool. If you are calling me on my cell phone, I've got a few questions for you. But yeah, I I don't think it should be about perfection because that's not relatable either. Right. Yeah. And that you should have various sides to a person because that's real. If you're gonna have their standard, what you see them as, but there's gonna be various sides, and I think that that's what makes the human experience. And I don't think you're taught that in the standard operating leadership model.

Jenny 33:34

Yeah, absolutely. Well, we covered the range of symptoms that burnout shows. And I would say if you have not listened to the episode prior to this, Casey, you dive into what shows up on our labs that maybe traditional medicine misses. So definitely go back, listen to that episode to dive a little bit deeper into what labs could be showing and and how labs that into the woods might be able to show you a little bit more of what stress is doing to your body or within your body. So I think we get burnout, right? It's not a pleasant experience. So, how do we make time when we feel like there is no time?

Kaitlyn (KK) 34:13

Well, if you were in my office and I was telling you that you need to dedicate 15 to 20 minutes a day to yourself, and you told me you're too busy, then I would say then your homework is to do an hour a day.

Jenny 34:25

There you go. I agree. 100%.

Kaitlyn (KK) 34:26

I like that. Yeah. So uh not only is it a value system, but it's a prioritization.

Jenny 34:31

It absolutely is.

Kaitlyn (KK) 34:32

And self-care is not selfish. I think it's selfish to not do it. So I would say it's quite the opposite. And so that's when I also do the 1% with people. So 15 to 20 minutes a day, let's break that down to that's one, that's you investing in yourself 1% today. And it can be you met with me today. So look, you did an hour. Cool, that's off your docket for today. But what's your tomorrow gonna be? And it can be physical, it can be mental, it can be emotional, it can be spiritual. You get to decide and we map that out. And then so when you think of it in that context, you actually start to look forward to that 1%. Actually, I'm not gonna give that up, which is why I will not give up my morning routine. That's clutch. And that's almost like two hours a morning minimum investing, you know, in my head game. So that's what I would say to you is that there is time, you just have to make it.

Jenny 35:21

Yeah. I think there was a book that I had read a while back, and the whole idea was okay, something breaks down in your home or some a sort of emergency pops up, you're going to make time for that because you have to, right? So I think just the reframe of you can take 15 minutes or an hour, right? Like you can make time. It is a matter of prioritization. And I think reframing a few things. So there is the whole cliche, self-care isn't selfish, right? But I I truly think when it comes to leaders, whether you're a parent or an entrepreneur, taking care of your physical, mental, spiritual well-being, whatever it is for you, needs to be part of your leadership strategy. It needs to be ingrained. So you can show up as your best self.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Or show up at all. Yeah. If 15 minutes a day is too hard, well, when you get sick for a week, I'd love to know how you're going to do those 15 minutes. That is true. 15 minutes a day. Most of us can find it. Personally, I like to do energy audits with people. And I know that sounds crazy, but most leaders can identify with like a task, right? A homework assignment. You're spending that energy, whether it's 15 minutes scrolling because you're tired or 20 minutes just in the bathroom because that's where you get peace, whatever it is. You have 15 minutes. Yeah. You just don't know where you're spending it yet.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Yeah. We did a presentation at a school and we were talking about detoxing and nutrition. And the teachers really were like, I'm a teacher, I have kids, I have zero time. They're in sports, I'm taking them here. Like I'm busy from the time I wake up, the time I go to bed. But again, all I heard them screaming was, I'm exhausted, I'm burnt out. Because there, again, there is time. Like if you do pull out a calendar hour by hour of the day, fill in what you're actually doing, how many hours are you sleeping? Where could you become more efficient? Like meal prep is better than McDonald's drive-thru, because that food is going to make you feel even worse, more tired. And the kids may be more irritable or tough to deal with. But there is a way that you can prioritize 15 minutes. I mean, that sounds insane. That's like a drop in a bucket, really, if you think about it. But again, what Casey, you said before, when you're burnt out, you do grab the phone and you either binge watch Netflix or doom scroll social media. So you're you're disconnecting your brain just so you don't have to deal. I think dealing with the burnout suddenly will create more time. Right.

Kaitlyn (KK) 38:00

Because in order to heal, we have to feel. And it's way easier to deny, bury, and avoid. Yeah. And oftentimes what people say to me is, Well, Caitlin, well, this used to work for me. So I describe it like you've built up this defense mechanism. So you've built all these bricks that were never supposed to be built in the first place. It was never supposed to be that way. And as we age, it just gets heavier because more things come at us. And so now it's just starting to break. That's why. And you were never supposed to be able to build that in the first place. Let's go back to that. But you've never been properly taught how to process because it does it feels uncomfortable. So I will fill my schedule with all these activities and do all this stuff. But what I would say to parents specifically is, well, wait, what's going to happen when they get older? Because then it's another shift. Now you don't have the burying, the distraction, and the avoidance. And now it's you have to sit with it and look at it. And it's typically a lot heavier.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

And that's where you look at empty nesting, right? When we say parents are so mad at this empty nesting, it's it's all of these years, yeah, of tolerance of filling your time where you don't have to focus on yourself or really attach to anything.

Kaitlyn (KK) 39:09

I think that goes back to know yourself and what is happening and where are you gonna invest that time? And if you're not willing to right now, it will catch up to you in some way. All illnesses are symptoms of something. So it will catch up to you.

Jenny 39:25

Absolutely. So make time. We believe in you, you can do it.

Kaitlyn (KK) 39:32

Just come and talk to me. I'm really good at uh can you on the track.

Jenny 39:35

Yeah. Great tips. So supporting your team's wellness as a leader. Obviously, we touched on this. People are looking at you, so modeling is really important. Uh what else have you experienced that's worked?

Kaitlyn (KK) 39:55

Well, I think one-on-ones are great as a way to connect and have that time with people. So that is something good. And we have to in the clinical realm to meet with our people that are under us weekly. And so that to me is always a good way to check in. Um, because you don't just start with all the work stuff in the beginning. How are you? How's it going? What's happening outside of here? I like one-on-ones. Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

There's two things that jump out to me. So psychological safety is one that at my last job we really started diving into. When people are afraid to approach their management, could be just a really bad toxic environment where they don't feel comfortable and they can never find that support. That's a real problem. So being able to build that, I do think one-on-ones help where you can sit down and have a relaxed conversation. If your leader is always the, oh, we're going to their office because all they do is write people up or reprimand or fire people. You know, I never want to go into that hot seat, is what they look at instead of I love coming to talk with you because it always is so supportive or compassionate or whatever it may be. So that's a huge thing. The other one is teaching people. So all of your employees are hungry. They're hungry, they want to learn, they want to feel like they're doing good things at work. That's what makes them keep showing up every day. They're not going to come to work if they're like, oh, nobody teaches me anything. I'm always getting in trouble. And they feel like that bad seed. So that creates turnover. So really teaching people and having those honest conversations about where their performance is at so that they feel, I guess it all boils back to psychological safety a little bit. So it does.

Jenny 41:31

Yeah, building that trust. I mean, that was the start of the conversation, too. Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 41:34

Well, and I think culture, and this is why we've been just hammering us. I know it's case for the god if they say it was I love culture.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

I love culture. I think it does just drive everything every day for staff and leaders. Yeah. That's the reason you show up. If you don't believe in what you're creating, I don't need to be here then. Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 41:53

Yeah. So that has been a very big undertaking, and it's probably at the top of our list of what's most important, which is why we're doing a lot of what we're doing. And so to me, that's just a ripple effect. So why are we doing March Madness? Well, it's fun, but it also brings us together. We get to close early on Friday. We're gonna eat lunch together, we're gonna watch a game, and then people can go home, right? Whether they, I mean, I hope they like that, right? Um the Valentine's Day boxes. That was fun. It was a competition and people got to do that and you got to see other people's strengths in a different way and things like that. Again, just trying to build that so people do enjoy coming to work and feel safe.

Jenny 42:34

Yeah. And feel like somebody's pouring into them, right? So to have that leader who obviously wants to see you grow, but obviously wants to see you well, it it is that combo that can make a difference and not only help with retention, but also recruitment. Because people talk. If you're an organization known for great culture, yeah, it's it's huge.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Yeah. And going back to values and culture, like so at a few places that I've worked at, like the reward for people that is the go-to for most corporations is food. Let's have pizza on Friday. Let's bring in ice cream. Like it's never good, solid, nutritional food. So, like stuff that we've done in the past is create little wellness packets and you give that out as a little prize, or you have the healthy potluck and everybody signs up for something and it's not junk, it's good stuff. So just creating a little more awareness. Walking outside is something I used to do with my team. They used to get to switch appointments with me where you can block with them and get them outside and they come back and just feel invigorated. So there's a lot of little switch ups you can do that helps to foster the culture.

Jenny 43:46

Yeah. I've been fortunate to be a part of some teams that really did invest in creating that culture. I was just sharing with a pal last week how one of the teams I worked with had this space where they were specifically encouraging the team. To have those mindful breaks, meditation, whatever felt good to them. So there were some newer technology things that they were buying, and we created this really great backdrop with lighting and it was next to the workout room. So it's one of those things where if they're providing those resources, whether it be on site or bringing somebody in, it can encourage and inspire and say, yes, this is important for you to make time for. And we care about your well-being beyond your productivity. So it it does make a huge difference in the culture.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Absolutely. Especially here. I mean, finding out that our beamer and some of the foot detoxes and things like that were provided for staff was wild to me. And in my head, I'm like, isn't that kind of everything we do? Yes, because we believe in it so deeply and we want our team to feel well so that they can care for our clients. Like you get to do all these things. Please use them.

SPEAKER_04 44:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

I can't tell you how many times I'm like, hey guys, if the beamer's open, I'm gonna go go sit in there. And I've never heard anyone say, Yeah, now's not a good time. Like it's always enjoy or you have 20 minutes till the next client's here. I've just never heard anyone say, please don't take care of yourself for 15 minutes. Exactly.

Jenny 45:10

Sounds ridiculous if you say no, huh?

SPEAKER_03 45:12

But how many times at any corporate office or big hospital jobs that I've held, they're like, Yeah, well, I needed you in five though. Yeah. Oh, so I can't go take a walk. I mean, it's just different. Yeah. If but you had to build that or team had to work at that. Exactly.

Kaitlyn (KK) 45:27

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go take care of yourself.

Jenny 45:34

How you show up for the customers and the client. Yeah. It is, it is ever, yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 45:40

Well, and we're a health and wellness facility. So I just feel like we it has to be a value of opportunity. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

It would look crazy not too weird. Yeah. It would. If you walk in here and we're all like disheveled and everyone's stressed out, yeah, just really mad.

Jenny 45:55

Yes. Exactly. If you have not been here, it is not that. It is very much a calming, welcoming. Yes, 100%. So let's wrap up here with a little bit of some of the root cause support and approach for leaders, talking about whether it is the personalized wellness programs that really dive in. What are some of the aspects of Into the Woods that you would highlight can support a leader?

Kaitlyn (KK) 46:22

I think everything we have here can from the blood work, from the mental health to the physical. I mean, I think all of it really, and that's why we have the full wheel of wellness, right? That's why it hits on nutrition, hormones, mental health, fitness, detox, and mentoring.

Jenny 46:38

You can start with the the pieces, right? Yep. But as you start with the pieces, you realize, as we've said, it's all connected. And to really enhance and elevate, you're gonna want to work in all of those components of the wheel.

Kaitlyn (KK) 46:52

Cause you might be interested in, let's say, BHRT. Well, we offer a free discovery call, 15 to 20 minutes. Talk to somebody about that and they'll discuss the pathways with you, see if that's a fit, or if you know somebody who's gone through a program or comes for mental health or comes for yoga, or it just comes for IVs, right? Um, because I think a lot of of that, I mean, even the discovery call this morning. Oh, I talked to so-and-so, so I know this is good to go, right? Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I think it's you know, checking in with your circle too, and not being afraid to explore some of those things because we are all here to help. And I will say that about this team is that everybody is super passionate about what they do.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Yeah, I'd say to the listeners, like if you are interested in anything that we've talked about in any podcast or anything you've seen on social media, whatever, set up a free discovery call with us. You talk to somebody for about 10, 15 minutes, and then we go from there. But specifically speaking, if you can't carve out 15 minutes of time, maybe it's life coaching. Or if you are stressed to the max, maybe it's mental health therapy session. So we do have a la carte options. Um, our nutrition programs include all of that. So that's the whole person healing. You get the whole shebang with that. But to get started, I'd say just call us.

Kaitlyn (KK) 48:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

Or if you just want a massage or you just gonna say, even our clients come in for a vitamin D injection because that's all I need, right? Everything else looks great. And what I hear is let's sit down for 10 minutes and talk about how you don't need anything else. Sure. I'm not here to sell you anything, but if you're not feeling well, it's so much bigger than vitamin D. Or they come in for 30 minutes with Izzy, right? And then they're like, I feel so good. It probably was the massage, and you took 30 minutes out of your day to relax. Yeah. There's a lot more that we can offer to help you take more time. Yeah. And you are always going to get a conversation here every time you come in.

Jenny 48:48

Absolutely. And that's why I love the monthly membership. I probably, well, not probably, I need to get better about using mine more. Like I use the core service every month, and I know I have credits to apply to other things. But whether it is 15 minutes of beamer that's like well, then it's jumping on the beamer or massage or IV. It's just a really great way to similar to a gym membership, right? I'm paying this, I get this, this whole breadth of options for whatever I feel like my body needs that month.

Kaitlyn (KK) 49:18

Well, you get the autonomy to choose, right? And you get to mix and match it. Um, and that to me is people are like, Oh, I get, yeah, I get to choose what I want this month. You might want a massage and then to use your four credits on a foot detox in the beamer. And the next month it might be an IV, and then it could be salt busana beamer, right? And so you get to choose that. And so, and they're super reasonable too. So me and membership's always a great way to start.

Jenny 49:42

So when it's a win for any leader or entrepreneur or parent that just wants to take that. I mean, it's more than 15 minutes, depending on what you're doing, right? But it is so worth it. Absolutely. Highly recommend. In fact, I need to get in here and check out some of the yoga classes because same that Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

That Sunday is calling my name. Absolutely.

Jenny 50:01

Absolutely. Awesome. Well, I also want to touch on the fact that you're doing a lot of workplace wellness presentations too. What are some of the topics that you've been taking?

Kaitlyn (KK) 50:10

It's been mainly mental health.

Jenny 50:12

Yeah.

Kaitlyn (KK) 50:12

Everybody loves a little mental health one.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Yeah, we did mental health 101, detoxification. Just did the compassion empathy one.

Kaitlyn (KK) 50:22

Yeah, so they vary. We're doing a stress management one coming up, but I think the lead one has been that mental health piece because everybody's seeing it. Yeah. I mean, it's not even just what's happening in your workplace, it's what's happening outside of the workplace and life and socioeconomics and you know, all of these uncertainties that you bring in once you walk through that door, right? And sometimes it can be hard to compartmentalize that. So I definitely see the trend of the mental health piece. But yeah, it's been great to hear from the corporations and to be able to get in there and to work with their employees.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Yeah. So yeah, offering chair massage. We're going to do foot tea talks, lymphatic, like any service we do here, we can virtually move into a corporation and do. Yeah. You name Tapic, we'll come talk about it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Right. Well, it's all encompassing. I think that's just part of what work why this works for everybody, especially leaders. Everything we do here touches on everything else you have going on in your life. Exactly. There's just no way to address a leader without talking about it.

Kaitlyn (KK) 51:19

And there's no shame in it. Yeah. And so the more we talk about it, the more we address it, the better it will be for everybody involved.

Jenny 51:25

Absolutely. Yeah, it's a huge piece of that overarching strategy for leadership, for culture, for recruitment and retention. Absolutely. So if you're out there listening and you've got a team you want to support, don't hesitate to reach out. We'd be happy to chat. I also think it's really exciting too as you work more toward the wellness on wheels. Would be per your comment, Kelly, about teams often come together around food. So how awesome will it be to have the food truck, right? Where it's like, all right, let's have some amazing, energizing food while we talk about something that's really important to whole person wellness of the team. So there's some really cool things happening.

Kaitlyn (KK) 52:02

Yeah, tell me about it. Just finished the business plan for Woody. So that will be going out there. But yeah, uh, I think again, you're a leader. Uh you could be the leader of a spreadsheet. Like, seriously. Sure. All of us are leaders in some way, shape, or form. You don't need to have the title. No titles needed, absolutely. I definitely don't need that. But if you focus on what's happening and you notice things, we are here.

Jenny 52:23

Absolutely. Awesome. Well, with that, we hope that you took something away from today's conversation that supports you on your leadership journey, whatever that might be. Thank you for being here. Until next time.

Kaitlyn (KK) 52:36

Be well, be still, be calm.

Jenny 52:39

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us. We'd also love to connect with you. Reach out at info at into the woodsjourney.com or visit our website at www.into the woodsjourney.com to explore your path to wellness. From the bottom of our hearts, thank you so much for listening.