Episode 24 - What Really Matters to You?

https://youtu.be/4o3YcTh-MeI

In this episode of Psyched for Sanity, Dr. Doss and Dr. Parker explore values—what they are, how they develop, and why they matter in guiding our decisions, relationships, and overall direction in life.

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***Listener Discretion Advised:
This episode contains discussions about mental health topics and real-life experiences that may not be suitable for all audiences. While the conversation includes humor and personal stories, some content may be sensitive or triggering. Listener discretion is advised.***

#PsychedForSanity #Values #MentalHealthPodcast #Psychology #PersonalGrowth #MeaningfulLiving

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Hello and welcome to Psych for Sanity. I am one of your hosts, Dr. Brendel Doss. I'm a licensed psychologist specializing in geriatric psychology, child therapy, assessment, and forensic psychology.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

And I am Dr. Tara McKelvey Parker. I am also a licensed clinical psychologist. I work in private practice and I specialize in assessing and treating complex trauma and attachment wounds from childhood. And I recently finished a um a whole series of pressed flower art pieces.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Which I'm very proud of.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

It's very impressive.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

And excited about. I spent, I bought, I just bought a bouquet of flowers and spent like a week um putting them in the microwave and like dehydrating it. I felt kind of bad because it was like literally killing flowers in the microwave, is what I was thinking about when I did it. But I I I got over it because it's just a flower.

unknown 1:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

But I spent a long time dehydrating those suckers. Yeah. And then arranging them and making art. That's so cool. And it was super fun. And it's just something I wanted to do for a while. And I ended up putting some of the pieces in like a gallery wall that I made. Oh, how wonderful. Um, in my house. And I I like gallery. For anyone who people who know me know that I like a good gallery wall. I gotta have one. So at this time I wanted to put some of my own pieces in it. So for a while I've been thinking about doing it, and I felt really like fulfilled, and I was like in the zone, it was super fun. And so, you know, I think I knew creativity was important. Okay, but I think it just kind of highlighted for me how important for me for me, like how much I value like creativity. Interesting. Okay. Um, because it was just a moment where I was feeling really good. I was Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Yeah, and I think obviously, you know, it's so hard to kind of always understand what we value. And uh I love that you discovered a new value that you have that you're expanding and exploring in.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, I figured it was like one of those things where intellectually I was like, yeah, curious, you know, or creativity, good. Like, you know, I think you're supposed to do more of that. Right? It's sort of like a goal or something. And then when I was in it's not like the only time I've ever been creative. I there are other moments where I've had more space to do that, but this experience just sort of like it's emotionally sort of highlighted for me, like, oh, actually, yes, this is something that I really value because it makes me feel happy and fulfilled.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

You really but you really in your early in your early days, you really explored a lot more creativity with with theater. So it really does tie into why that's so important because that was a huge source of meaning and fulfillment when you were younger. Yes. And so that makes a lot of sense that that's kind of re-emerging at this time.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

I also did something, or I'm going to do something new and different. I really value connection. And I do you as a therapist?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Do you value connection?

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Yeah, yeah, obviously. No, I do. Um, I really do. And but it's also I also really value um like achievement and accomplishment too. And sometimes those two can butt heads. Yes. And so this time I am valuing connection over uh accomplishment because I am taking a whole day off. For those that know me, they know this is a big deal. You work a lot, yeah. Yeah, the people that know me are be like, what? I'm taking a whole day off in the middle of the work week to celebrate my wife's birthday, and that is because I value connection with her um over any kind of achievement. And so I think that that's um it's good to really connect to our values. And this is so today we're gonna be talking about something that is not automatically like people in people's minds might not automatically be associated with our emotions 101 series, but we are putting um a bookend, if you will, kind of a cap-off and finalizing our series. It's been really fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Yeah, it's been really fun to dig into these emotions. I've learned a lot actually. You know, I have learned so much. Absolutely. I it's ri you know, emotions, they're there for a reason, they're real important. But if um you may have recognized that throughout a lot of our episodes, we talk a bunch about values.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

We do, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Like, but it's one of like if you feel ashamed, then you're likely misaligned with your values, right? Right. Or like if you would like to feel happy, then like living a meaningful life. And so you create meaning by doing things that you value that are important to you. And so, but and it's one of those things where you're like, yeah, value, but it's you know, it's like one of those things you know that you need it, but like I don't really feel like people think intentionally about what they value. No, they don't like what is important to them so they can live a life that is aligned with those values because there's lots of things that get in the way of us even being able to know what we value or live according to our values, and it's so we kind of thought this would be a good episode to end with.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

Yeah, to kind of expand upon and kind of tie everything up together if we can. I mean, as best we can. What's a value?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

What why are they important?

SPEAKER_03 5:19

What do you do to find them? But back to your point though, often in session I will talk to people about what do they value. And um, you know, my patients and my clients are really like, you know, I feel like they're very intentional on their work with me, which I appreciate. And so many of them said, Oh my goodness, I don't know. I've never really thought about that. Much to your point. I really have not sat down and thought, what do I value? Intentionally, yeah. Really kind of looking towards the definition of values. Right. A lot of people confuse, which even in our research for this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, even when we were doing this episode, values can get fused with goals.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

So let's let's define values before we get too ahead of ourselves here.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yes, yes, great idea. So um what values would be like a a guiding principle, right? Right? Things that are that are important to you are meaningful, that kind of um the way you want to show up as a human being. Right. Like these things, you know, these values are sort of just like guideposts. They provide direction for you. Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

They're not achievement oriented.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

They're not achievement oriented. Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Yeah, they're unending.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah, a goal is something you achieve, it's something that you check off of a list. You've done it, you complete it. Like getting a PhD or running a marathon. Right, or getting that promotion at work. Right. Those are goals. Values, it's just like, yeah, again, how you want to show up and you live it repeatedly and you make decisions about what you're gonna do based on what you value and what's important to you. So it's just something that kind of like you, you know, you use, guides you through life.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Yeah, and I think once people start really like thinking about what they value, it can be really hard to pinpoint this down and to understand um what is important to us and how do I want to show up. But like we just mentioned, so many times emotions, which are messengers, we've kind of established that. Ad nauseum. But we're gonna get beaten the dead horse just one more time.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

I know you guys are probably really annoyed with the message.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

You're probably really, you're probably really annoyed with us.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

But like you literally have to hear it 500 times before it clicks.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Sometimes that's the truth, or it's the 500 and one time that's like, oh my gosh, that makes sense. Or sometimes it clicks and then you just need someone to say it again.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, if you click again because you're back and you know right, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

But I think emotions are messengers, and sometimes the message for several emotions, as you just mentioned, is that we are not living or acting, behaving, or even thinking in alignment with what we value.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Right. So why are values so important? So much of emotional distress or is or you know, um emotions in general, yes, they're sort of like um should be sort of a light bulb, or so one of the the messages is that hey, signal you're not living aligned with your values or something, you know, like shame again, you know, when it's just a healthy, healthy shame, right? We just um when you experience that, it's because you're not behaving or acting in a way that in uh you that you want to be, right? Like, or some kind some kind you're misaligned with some value you may not even be able to identify.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

Right, or anger or anger.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Someone violated one of your values, yes, or has you know, or is threatening one of your values in some capacity.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Uh-huh. Boundary, value, like right. A boundary is something that matters to you. Like I will not tolerate that. Right. So violation of a value or a boundary, and then sadness, right? The loss of something that we value or that is meaningful.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Or something that might be connected to a value. Right, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, values is so help us make sense of our emotions.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

And I think make sense of the world in a larger sense, like how we fit and interact with this um great big planet in a real sense.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, creates um meaning, like you're saying. Like, you know, like even hard things can be um really meaningful if it aligns with our values. So parenting is one of these things probably that would fit here. Because parenting is really hard in a lot of, you know, like it if like but it's it's really meaningful if you value connection. Or if you value, you know, family, sure, stability, like that kind of stuff. So it's like it's kind of all worth it when like your kids having a tantrum in a public place, right? You know, because you love them and you, you know, it's so values can make values help provide meaning.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

And I think a lot of people struggle with what's my purpose? Like, what am I here for? You know what I mean? Like kind of large esoteric questions, they wrestle with those to a degree, and maybe not everyone, but some of us, right? And I think if you can understand and recognize your values, yes that will lead you to get to your purpose.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Living a good life.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Like creating meaning in this world. Like what is m what matters to you and living a life like that.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

So yeah, so we know why why now values are important. But what else do we need to understand about values and what they are and what they're not?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Well, I think one one additional thing that is important about values and why they're important is um I think they can help whenever we feel stuck. Like when whenever we're indecisive or we're like conflicted.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Okay, I think if you can really think about what's important to you or what feels meaningful or fulfilling in in in that situation, it will guide your decisions, it will guide your decision because it your values are meant to help you guide decisions that you that feel good to you, that make you feel like a good person, that you're taking the right steps, that you're right, creating a life that you want. So I do think it's important um to think about values that way. Like to really, it's just it can be kind of challenging to identify values, even when we were doing this and like like we were it's like we struggled. I transparency. We were we struggled, you know. One of us was like naming goals. That was me. You she just and the other one was like, there's only two of us here.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

I don't know why she's saying one of us.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

She was like, This is a value. I'm like, it was tricky. I think it was tricky. I think that's a goal. One of us. We're silly. So it's really like deeper rooted meaning. Much deeper. Right, deep, deeper, go deeper. You have to. So, like creativity, um connection. I just want to name some because I literally I really like had to look online for a list of values and like go through because I have thought about this a little bit more intentionally in the past. More than I have here. Sure. Absolutely, yes. Um, because I've had to make some big decisions and I've wanted them to really be aligned with who I am. Um so like creativity. Um, you mentioned a couple that were super important to you. Achievement. Achievement. Achievement is a value. That's yep, accomplishment and achievement. Um, what else? Oh, one for me uh definitely is authenticity.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah, that was for both of us for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I always want to be an authentic person that sort of is like vulnerable and allows people to feel safe doing that too.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

So another one for you was um exploration. Exploration, yeah. Which was surprising to me.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

I did not realize that about you.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

It's because I feel like I really didn't get to do very much of it when I was younger. I feel like there's still so much to I feel like I don't know, I'm in like an exploratory phase. I'm trying to get in touch with like some of those things that have been dampened or not as safe to feel or experience.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Or not have the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Or not having the opportunity because of like, you know, I also value achievements, so that's one where I've been. But sometimes getting in infused with that is expectation, and then I don't always know am I achieving because I want to or because it's expected. Well, you're you're headed to our next topic. Right. So what are some other values? And then yeah, maybe we can talk about why it's so challenging. Yes, I think we should to actually live, you know, do this.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

So I think like like it might be also helpful to distinguish the different kind of thing. Like, I got confused in our research and preparation for this conversation today. I really thought maybe like travel was a value.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Travel, yeah. Spoiler. That's where I was like, that's not because it's it's an adjective, it should be like an adjective. It was an adjective, apparently. Yeah, because the want want here too.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Find the adjective. So it's like not the verb, the adjective. So why is tra the the question to ask yourself is why is travel important?

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

And for me, what about that experience is important because travel is important to me too, and it's because of exploration, because I want to explore, I want to feel curious about other cultures. Like I so curiosity is another really important value for me. Curiosity, um, freedom, that's independence.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Autonomy.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

That's a big value that some people might have. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Underlying a lot of my anxiety are my value for stability and security and safety.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Yes, you and I share those three for sure. Those are high up. And how they those are high up. What I think it's interesting in our examples is mine shows up differently than yours, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

In some ways, there's a little bit of overlap, yeah, but it's very different.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

And I think that's important.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Yeah. Well, how would you, how do you would you describe your sort of experience with it?

SPEAKER_03 14:33

My security, when I think about that, I think it comes more from a financial side.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

And I don't feel as much anxiety related to the emotional security and safety. Yes. Because there's a different need that I experienced when I was younger than you had.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

So it shows up differently, but we have the same value.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yes, exactly. Totally. So, yes, there's some nuance in this for sure. When we think we say security, that can mean different things for different people. Absolutely. If you value security, then you're gonna want to live a life where you are sort of creating security. Yeah, what is what whatever security and what?

SPEAKER_03 15:06

What does that mean for you?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Whatever that means. Exactly. Um, so you know Do we say exactly too much? We might. How many times did we just now say it?

SPEAKER_03 15:14

I feel like we said it like three times.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Did I do it or did you do it? We bolted it. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

We're colluding. We didn't mean to. Sorry guys. Sorry guys.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Sometimes we'll work on it.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

We'll work on words.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

More words.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

We hang out a lot. And sometimes we say the same things. So we'll work on that.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Um so so how did how how to tell if you're misaligned? How to figure it out with values and and and why is it so hard to live according to values? So which one do you want to go with first?

SPEAKER_03 15:49

It's a tricky one.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I know.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

I think how to tell is the first step.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Okay. How to tell. So how to tell, how would you tell if you're misaligned or you're not living a life according to values?

SPEAKER_03 15:58

I think um the emotions as messengers is really what I would go towards. I think that um sometimes, you know, the emotions that you're experiencing, especially in their true form, can signal, hey, this is mis this value is misaligned.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Those value is misaligned, or like, hey, this really matters. Because I lost it and this means something to me. Right. Or hey, I'm really angry. So like some value of mine has been violated or threatened. I'm not okay with that, or shame.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Like, oh man, I'm really not living the way that I need to be living to feel good about myself. Right. Absolutely. So definitely any kind of emotional turmoil. Sure. Right. Um, I would say indecision. Indecision might be another big one. If you're really feeling conflicted about what a path to move in, um, you haven't prioritized what's important to you.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Or another thing is I think kind of like in my example earlier, I value both connection and um achievement. And sometimes our values can bump up against each other. And then it comes even to a more like, you know, looking into the minutia of the dynamic, which is in this specific situation for me, which one is more important and why?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah, totally. That's a really good point. I think that's true. Um, because we have mul is you know, we value a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

They're not independent, they can overlap and bump up and overlap, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

That might cause the indecisiveness. That can yeah, good point. So sometimes it is about that. You just have to prioritize what's most important right now, like to kind of recategorize or whatever. Right. Um, you know, other things, it's you know, some other yes, there's like a conflict in values, and there can also then be that all of that like emotional stuff that kind of gets in there too, that's saying different things, and you kind of have to be like, wait a second, anxiety, go over there, shame, go over there. Like you gotta like separate them out and be like, Everyone go to your corner. Everyone sit down. I'm in charge.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

We're gonna make a we're gonna have a civil conversation about what's important to me right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

What do you want to say? Wait a second. Hey, shame, sit over there. What do you want to say?

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Don't hit your microphone.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Your turn, shame.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Oh gosh. Anger. You give shame too much of a big thing. Speak up anger. You give shame too much of it. No, anger doesn't need to be loud, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Anger needs to be loud. It's like a committee. Right. Sometimes that's what it feels like. So indecision is usually a conflict in that way. Like all these parts and voices, and we don't know what's important or what to listen to or what matters. So then what's the next step? The next step is really thinking about a situation and what is going to make you feel proud, fulfilled, and what's going to be meaningful. Yeah. That's what's going to be important to prioritize.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

If you don't know what you're valuing and you don't know where to start, just sitting down and thinking of that is a great place to begin.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

So that's what I kind of did with this like pressed flower. It sounds really, it's like hokey, but I was feeling I was feeling like super happy.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

But you also are a sheepish about it too. I know because which you shouldn't feel sheepish about, feeling proud of something like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

No, it's just it's just funny. Um, because I was like, I noticed the feeling. Right. Like the sense of fulfillment. I don't like always feel it. Um, and so I was like, why am I like feeling so good right now? You know, like why you're suspicious. I know it's like it was just felt weird. It was just weird, weird is the best way I can describe it. And so then I was like, why? I'm like, oh, it was the creativity, but it was also the achievement because I felt really cool like good about doing it from beginning to end. Yeah. And then like the aesthetic piece, the beauty piece, right? Like valuing like in my home, I really value like I have a certain like vibe that I want. And so it felt really good to me that I was doing it. Yeah. So anyway, all of it was sort of so I did this exercise. I thought about, I like noticed the feeling and then asked myself what was meaningful or fulfilling. Sure. And then I pulled out my cheat sheet of values.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Yeah, and that's okay. But one thing we should we emphasize right here now. It's okay to look up a list of values to really differentiate between goals and values.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Super helpful to have a list. I'm not gonna lie, this is what I did. It was really hard for me to just sort of like come up with values, yeah. You know, um, so that's what I I didn't actually do that because I don't have a list printed, but I looked it up on my phone. We should get you one printed. I need a press I need to put on my refrigerator. Oh wouldn't that be kind of now? I know what to get you for your birthday. Oh, there you go. That's what I'm gonna get from every day. So anyway, I kind of like did this exercise, and then I knew we were kind of doing this episode. So I was trying to sort of use it as like how do you find your values exercise? Super easy. Like ask yourself, you know, what's meaningful, what fulfilling, you know, this is what I value. So this write it on a piece of paper. These are things I value, and this is what I'm gonna prioritize when I'm trying to make decisions about it.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

And I think it's okay if your val your values or priorities might shift depending on situations and context. I think there's gonna be a general core that's gonna emerge once you kind of start doing this work. Yes, either um on your own, like you know, with self-exploration or with a clinician or therapist. But um, understanding this can really help you guide your decisions about relationships, um, uh careers, um, educational attainment or goals. Yeah, you know what I mean? Because values inform goals.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah, and just a you know, a caveat. I think living according to to values does not mean there's not discomfort. Absolutely not. Um there is going to be discomfort. There's gonna be all of the stuff, but the values help guide you in a direction of you know how you act. Um yeah, and there's lots of, I mean, there's lots of ways. I, you know, we we had talked about um how you know when what gets you out of alignment with values. And so we talked about like avoiding discomfort, right? We talked about not knowing what your values are. Yeah. Um we didn't mention this though.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Sometimes you can feel um kind of indecisive if you're living for someone else's values and not your own.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Expectations. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because that's a really, really big I did not mention that as thoroughly. Yeah, expectations. I think cultural expectations. Right? Familial. Familial expectations. Um, societal expectations. Lots of them. There's like, you know lots of layers. All kinds of ide people have all kinds of ideas of what what what you should do with your life and what's important. But if you are living according to those expectations, yikes. Right? And and it's not something that you value. If you're not internalizing it in a way that feels comfortable. Like if you have a family where achievement is very important, but you don't value achievement in the way. That's okay. Yeah. But you may be doing something that causes you a lot of distress because it doesn't really feel aligned with what is really important to you.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

A lot of consternation.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

So I think expectations is a really, really big one. Yeah. Um, if you're gonna avoid discomfort, that's gonna be really hard to know what you value because these emotions are giving you information about what you value. And you know, so that's really important too.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

And yeah, and staying with discomfort understanding it, you can gather more data, which can lead you back to more comfortable experiences, I think, and exploration. Well, so we've kind of talked about values and we're putting like this wonderful little capstone on our emotions 101 series. And I really feel like I have a clearer sense of my values and even of some of my emotions. I'm a happy person than I did before. What uh you know, kind of not only tying in today's episode, but also tying in this entire series. What are you taking away from today in this series and what's important for you?

SPEAKER_00 23:27

I think what I'm taking away is that what's really important is to figure out what's important to you. And that could be um psychological health. It could be mental health, right? Like so that so that's important to you, and any of this has really like um piqued your interest or made you feel like, oh, I need I need to be doing some of this. Like this is you know, this sounds really great. Um, and you value gr self-growth in that way, because that's another value. Yeah. Um, take one step in the right direction today. It is a process.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

It's a process that just takes a while that you have to sort of like work on every day. And when you feel like you're failing, to get back up and like restart, right, and just know that that is the course in terms of values, um, or in terms of seeking happiness, or in terms of emotional health, tolerance in terms of connection. If any of these things you're like, oh, that sounds great. It's just so hard. Just make it important and take one step.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Yeah, and I think um what I'm kind of taking away, especially from our values conversation, is um I'm just more appreciative of the system that is me, and that of how my emotions work. I'm gr I just have a lot of gratitude for when I have experienced, you know, the stress or discomfort. And it's much more clear now in retrospect that I was um either acting or behaving or in a siss situation that was out of line with my values, and it really did motivate me towards a place of comfort and more alignment with my values. And I think that's just really, really cool to see a system working functionally and wonderfully. Yeah. And as far as the series overall, it's been a wonderful exploration of emotion. And as everyone who knows me knows, I am no stranger to all my feelings. No problem there. But I do think I had a surface level recursory knowledge in many ways, and on a personal level, it's helped me expand and helped me think and feel deeper about these really important messengers that we all experience.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah, it just sounds like you're really yes, you've it's kind of um really exciting to have validation from some of this too, about like how you've been sort of intuitively moving through the world, even if intentionally you hadn't thought about some of it, too. And I think exactly. Sorry. That was you. I know I just thought that I of course it was me. I just I want that to be encouraging and hopeful for our listeners too. That you don't necessarily have to have a formal you know list of your values, for instance. You don't have to have it all figured out. Sometimes we kind of know intuitively what's important, but just to sort of like really be intentional about it, in particular in times of emotional turmoil or indecision, right? This can just be good clarification. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

So all right. Well, we appreciate you guys joining us on our emotion 101. Um, who knows what we'll talk about next. Stay tuned. This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or any kind of professional mental health treatment. We hope that we can share with you our experience authentically and genuinely, and we hope that occasionally we'll make you laugh. Maybe you can relate to our quest and our psyched for sanity. The content we share is um our personal opinions and insights. They are not clinical insights to anyone, and they don't represent or reflect any entity that we worked in or have worked for in the past. But if listening to this podcast has made you think, we'd really encourage you to seek out a mental health professional in your area.