Episode 25 - Questions We’ve Never Asked Each Other

https://youtu.be/Gxnov4UHE7Q

In this special episode of Psyched for Sanity, Dr. Doss and Dr. Parker turn the questions on each other, sharing personal stories, experiences, and perspectives outside the therapy room.

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***Listener Discretion Advised:
This episode contains discussions about mental health topics and real-life experiences that may not be suitable for all audiences. While the conversation includes humor and personal stories, some content may be sensitive or triggering. Listener discretion is advised.***

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Hello, welcome to Psych for Sanity. I am one of your co-hosts, Dr. Tara McKelve Parker. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist working in private practice. I specialize in assessing and treating complex trauma and attachment wounds from childhood.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

And I am one of your hosts, Dr. Brindle Doss. I'm a licensed psychologist specializing in geriatric psychology, uh, child treatment, forensic psychology, and assessment.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Okay. Tell me a fun fact.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Tell me something real fun. I don't know if it's fun. I don't know. I think you're thinking it's dorky, but that's you normally normally like, oh, this is a fun fact. And you're like, that's your big dork.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

I'm like, well, I think that's fun that you are a dork. So even though I'm teasing to the teasing is fun for me. So it's actually like very fun.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

That's why it's fun. Exactly. So my my my I I like I like even numbers better than odd numbers. Okay. But really positive, amazing life events have occurred in odd numbered years.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Huh. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's a little contradictory.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Yes, but I really like even numbers. Like I really feel strongly about this.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

I like I I like actually think about this pretty often because I do too.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

You do? Yeah. I'm the one that's shocked today.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

But it's like a little bit OCD, like compulsive, you know, like I need to count, like I count in my head in twos. Okay. Oh. Like sometimes when I'm stressed. Or like, you know, I want things to be in pairs, or like when I'm um listening to things on the radio, I want it to be even, or like, or it has to be an increments of five. There's something organizing to the brain about that. I like increments of five as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Like 25 or 15 or 100. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

There's just something like really gratifying about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I think it's because I kind of understand. So this is but this is why I think we both like this. This is you know, people are gonna I I think it's because of the Myers Briggs, we're both like Jays.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Oh yeah, yeah, we are both J's. Yes. We like things to be like a little bit more organized, predictable, finite, like black and white.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

We don't like open doors.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah, we like things to be like solidified the peas.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Those peas.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

I always make friends with peas. I have a lot of peas in my life.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

I'm married to one.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, and they just kind of like you try to make plans with them, and you're like, let's do Friday at seven. They're like, well, just see how it goes. Maybe I don't know. It just depends on what's on my schedule. Maybe let's play it by year. And I'm like, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Or they research refrigerators for five years and drive you up a wall. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Because they can't make decisions.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Well, they can make decisions, but they always want to see more options.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Always the option. That's not helpful. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

So were you surprised by the fact that we both like even numbers?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

A little bit because I thought it was pretty, and mine may be a little extra. I don't know. I don't know. I I like to count the counting is counting's extra. It's a little extra. It's a little probably on the OCD spectrum. It's like a little tick that is there. OCD spectrum? Yeah, for sure. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Okay.

unknown 3:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Maybe we could talk about that in a different episode. I think everything's on a spectrum. And when it gets really intense and like impacts your functioning, it becomes diagnosable. Okay. But another subject for another time. But not super yes and no, but it does. This sort of ties into our episode, I suppose, because we're gonna do a little bit of a QA.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

QA.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Feel like we know a lot about each other, but there's lots of stuff we don't, and we haven't asked, you know, we haven't asked each other some specific personal or per you know questions. So I thought we could do that. We both thought we could do that.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

So we we we have written questions for you to ask each other, and we don't know what these questions are.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

We have not shared them at all. She is so nervous by this episode, which I find hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Because one of the things not nervous at all, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

But like performing in this capacity is just like telling your truth and showing up authentically, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

It's something I value, but it's terrifying. People are watching this.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

I hope they are. We're trying to trying to grow an audience over here. We're doing our best. Maybe only like 10, but still. Still, we appreciate those 10, or maybe more. We really do. We've got more lists. We definitely have more lists. We do. I just I jest. Um so do you want to ask me a question first or should I ask you?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

I'll ask you first. Do you mind? Okay. I feel like it'll help me hear you answer first. I'll I'll calm down a little bit. Okay. Okay. So I think my first question for you is going to be. Uh-huh. I'm ready. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

She's like so nervous, and I'm like, doo-do-do.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

I was the most excited about this episode out of all the episodes we talked about in planning. That's hilarious. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

That's hilarious. I just is one psychological No, that's the wrong one. Don't answer that question. It wasn't even a question. What is a psychological concept that changed how you think about your life?

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think there are several.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

You don't care. Projection.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

I I care, but I I, you know, it's a great question, first of all. Um, you know, there are probably several, but I think that really the one that I still still when I reflect on it just goes off in my brain like a like a warm gong is that a warm gong. Like awareness, but not like in a shocking way.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Right. Not in a startling, uncomfortable, painful way, but like a real strong, powerful like I don't know, warm gong.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I don't know. Okay, I get it. Yeah. I just needed some explanation because that's weird.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

You think she'd after 20 episodes she'd be used to it, but she's not.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

She's not used to the weird.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

But I get it.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

So I was in graduate school. I was um at the time pursuing a master's degree um at the lovely Texas Women's University. And I was in a um, I forget the formal name of class, but it was basically a multicultural, multicultural psychology class. Um, and I was taught by a wonderful, lovely woman professor, Dr. Deborah Mullen. Um, and she just had a great way of teaching, which I really appreciate and still do. Um, shout out Dr. Mullen if you're watching, listening. Um one of the classes she that she taught was she kind of was standing in front of the room, I remember really distinctly, and said, How many of you that identify as Caucasian or white wake up realizing or having awareness of your whiteness? And I just it just went off in my brain, like, wow, I at the time had a lot of privilege and was not aware of that and did not recognize that folks that um people of color wake up with awareness of the construct, and I did not have a functional knowledge at the time until this wonderful class of race as a construct.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah, I feel similarly. I think that was the first time for me too, yeah, where I became aware of my privilege, which is kind of insane and speaks to the level of privilege that it took until I was twenty in my twenties.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

And important.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

And important, very important. I remember having the same kind of light bulb moment, like holy crap.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

It was like my eyes have been sort of opened that I never had that experience before.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Right, and I really reflect on that still to this day to help me kind of like recalibrate because I think when you have any kind of position of privilege, it's very it's like air, it just creeps in and you're not aware that you're breathing it. You don't think about your thinking or think about air. So when you can check your privilege or be conscientious of it, it can lessen the impact, I think, um, on others in a negative way.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

So that was that's my answer.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Okay, that's a great answer. Yeah, I relate. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Are you ready?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Kind of.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Okay, I'll do this one. I feel like this one is a softball one. Okay, give it to me. If you could go back to either when you started getting interested in psychology or graduated with your PhD, what would you tell yourself or what advice would you give yourself?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Ooh, that is a good one. Thank you. What advice would I give myself? What would I tell myself? Okay, the first thing that came to my mind is I remember definitely when I graduated with my PhD, and I was just, you know, kind of going through postdoc and try and after postdoc trying to figure out um, you know, what to do with my life, what I wanted to do with my PhD, and in what direction I wanted to go. And I remember feeling A, absolutely terrified that I was not going to make it. Because I went right from postdoc to private practice too, which is a big leap. You were like the ballsiest. I don't even know what came into. Honestly, I don't even know.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

You were the ball- I that was such I remembered I I still think that's one of the ballsiest moves. You were so like, oh yeah, this is what I'm doing. And I was like, what? Oh my god, I I'm like a duck. It was like freaking out about it though, and like you were so externally confident.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I told you I remember, yeah. Well, it wasn't really so I had I had a talk with um an older woman. She was like a few um cohorts above me in my program. Classes. She was older in classes, and she had already started private practice, and I remember calling her for advice, and she said, You are gonna be great, know your worth.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I remember we've talked about on the podcast before.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

It that helped me. I I was freaking out. That really, really helped. I was like, okay, like she's saying I'm worth it and I can do it. I'm gonna trust her.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

And I had a lot, I mean, I really it is amazing how one some sometimes I've very I've I've often hinged on this. Like sometimes I've had very simple, even brief conversations with the like not even someone that I'm necessarily close with, but like a colleague or like a mutual, a mutual of someone. And they've said something that's completely changed the trajectory of either my program, my research in the past, or my practice. And I just feel like it's so valuable and important.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

I remember in high school one time too. This is another one of those, like, oh my gosh, like really, like you're describing, change my path was a teacher who said, you know, like you have to take care of you. Like she could identify with my responsibility for my siblings. She had had a a sister who was schizophrenic and she felt a lot of responsibility. She was like, You have to take care of you, you have to go to college. Cause I was debating whether I should leave or stay.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

So I think I would tell myself, you are okay, and like nothing scary is gonna happen, and you're gonna make it. And then also, like, you are you are good enough. Like I had a lot of imposter, a lot of imposter syndrome, right? Like I was like, I have a PhD and I'm supposed to be helping people, but I don't know what I'm doing. Sure. Like I'm not good enough. I think you know, that for in that stage of my sort of career, that's how I felt. And now after having like 10 years of experience from that point, I feel pretty confident in my ability, like my therapeutic skills and my ability to help people and like do my job. But I did not feel that way 10 years ago. Yeah. So I would definitely tell myself, like, you're safe, you're good, you're gonna make it, you're good enough.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

This is a a go. Even though I did it, it would have been nice to feel more secure in in my decision.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Wonderful. You have one for me. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yeah. Yeah, you ready?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

I'm I'm very ready.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Okay. Okay. So I think this one's a good one. Okay. Why do you think that insight alone isn't enough for change? That is so tricky. I know.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

That's a hard one.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

It's a little hard, but I think it's important. I have some ideas about it too. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

I feel like insight is so tricky. And sometimes, you know, as a clinician, a psychologist, therapist person, it's so clear to me what people need to hear or witness or experience. But this is sometimes part of the magic of therapy and also the power is that we cannot make anyone have insight. They can only experience it for themselves. Yes. And I think why it's so tricky is because the brain is so crazy and amazing and powerful. And it's so hard to uh look past our old patterns of behavior or our old beliefs or old ways of thinking.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

That have previously kept us in a s like what we perceive to be a functional state, even a state of dysfunction.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

That it's hard to look past uh that current dynamic for us.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

I think that's those old roots and beliefs got me to this point that I'm here to rewire. And it's so hard to rewire a belief. A belief is so tricky to change, and um, but sometimes our beliefs are so mean to us, and we believe really horrendous things about ourselves. And so a lot of my patients really struggle with believing that they're wonderful and lovely people.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Well, and even knowing like that that's not okay, like you can have insight that you have like this shame or this critic or these these negative self-beliefs. But the insight doesn't, it's you have to actually ch change the belief. Right. That's the next thing. And that's hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Well, what I'll tell my my patients frequently is you don't have to believe this. I need you for today, in this moment, at this time, to know that I believe this. And I I literally say this very intentionally to ones that struggle with this. I need you to know that when I put my head on my pillow tonight, I'm still gonna believe this about you. You're wonderful, you're lovely, you have value and meaning. And I've talked about this before on the podcast, but nothing you do today or don't do today is gonna like limit your important and your intrinsic worth for me on this earth.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

And so, and that softens them a little bit, and uh, but I acknowledge, I I like to acknowledge to people, I know that you're not gonna believe me, and I'm okay with that. I'm not trying to like cardball them.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's just you know, you are offering a different perspective that this person is has desperately wants to believe but can't be considered or can't believe. So you kind of have to shine that light like over and over and over again, and they have to practice speaking to themselves over and over and over again, and then we change the belief, but that's hard to do even with insight. And then also there's the emotion regulation piece. So I feel like where this is big for me, like I will have insight. I like know a thing, I know what I need to do. Yeah. And I'm like, nope. Right. Right, and then there's all kinds of emotional things that make it challenging for me to then, you know, kind of like use the insight to make change towards health. So yeah, I agree. Are you ready for your next question? No, I'm talking because I'm trying to not get it You're trying to avoid I'm trying to hijack your question, so unfair, foul on the play.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Okay, go. Okay. If you had a magic wand. Ooh, a magic wand. What would you change about our field? Oh, I wish I had a magic wand. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

For many reasons. Okay. What would I change about our field? Well, the first thing that came to mind is I would make it more accessible to everyone. It like in which way? Like underserved populations. I see. Like people who people who need the help the most do not get it. And it breaks my heart. Oh it makes me sad every single day.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

That people who are poor or severely mentally ill and homeless and like, you know, they they cannot access mental health treatment because I firmly believe that like I think that we need more securely attached people in this world, and therapy is very important for that. And and like, you know, like securely attached people like are not addicted to drugs and they don't commit crimes. And you know, like I just think absolutely there's less trauma. There's less trauma, and like we could all be like happier and like healthier, and like so it breaks my heart. Like, if I had a magic one, I don't know exactly how I would do it, which is why I love the question being framed as magic wand, because I don't actually have to like figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

We're not here doing policy debates.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

I don't I don't know what to do. It's a different episode issue, but like if I could waive it, it would just be like everyone has access to the help and support that they need to be okay. I love that. That's what I would do.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Okay. Yeah. We have we have time, I think, for how many of you answered?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I think I've answered three. No. No? Oh, I'm trying to get out of it, guys. Do you see on this avoidance tactic? Okay, I think you've answered two, so I'll do one more for you. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I am curious. This is this is a m a little bit more personal leaning, but professional. That's fine. We talk a lot about parenting.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

We do on the show. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Um, and we've talked about being triggered by our kids and like, you know, whatever. I'm curious, like, you know, as you think about your kids, what do you feel in yourself? What's like your biggest parenting trigger? Like biggest like thing, you know, that you feel like is um just challenging for you with kids.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

You know, it's um it's changed as they've gotten older. Fair. Yeah. And it's changed as I've as I'm trying to grow as a parent, which I think is good. But it's surprising and almost a little embarrassing to admit the trigger because it's so silly. I perceive it to be silly, which I shouldn't judge. I shouldn't judge it. Um I think when um my feisty um daughter like will say no or will like defiance, and it's like something that's like so basic, so straightforward, and it's so rational and connected. Um I have to like I can get if I don't like slow down or just ignore it, one of the two or both, um, and I I can feed into that of like getting agitated and irritable and like raising my voice or whatever because this is so simple. Why can you not just you're going to leave the house today? You want to go where you're going today, you want to go to your grandfather's house. I know you do. He's planning a fun Easter activity for you. That would be amazing. But you don't want to get dressed. You don't want to eat breakfast. You want to yell no. And so I do try to manage this trigger by reminding myself this is developmentally appropriate. Right. She is supposed to yell no at me. Right. She's allowed to do that.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

But sometimes it's like, if you want to do this, you know you got to do these other things. Just do it.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

So what helps me is to slow down on like reminder's like, well, let's just tell her there's a logical consequence, you know, for her behavior, which is like, hey, if you don't get dressed, then I guess you're not gonna go. Let me know what you decide. But it is triggering, and which is surprising to me because I feel very confident when I'm working with parents and families at educating them about not caring about the defiance. I know, not getting caught up in the facial.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

You really do have to detach from it a little bit. Because it's not personal, it's not pretty, it's developmental. And also you can you if it's not scary overall, you can give a game plan for what to do, then you can, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

So yeah. So this is a little bit of a shorter episode for us because we're kind of just spitballing here. But is it as scary as you thought it was gonna be?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

No, I think I got out of a question.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

You got out of a question? Yeah, I have more.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

No, no, I'm happy about it. Did you see me like playing? I was like playing. I was like, I was nervous, so I was trying, I was like, I was like, let's talk more about your responses, Bendle. Tell me what she's very good. I'm very good.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

She's very good. It's a combination for her therapy versus person and her theater skills. No, I think we can answer those questions that you're avoiding later in our next QA. I'm just kidding. Quarterly QA here on Psych for Sanity. Um I'll figure out other ways. No, I'm not sure. You know what? Your questions don't scare me.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

I know.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Envy, confidence.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Be quiet. Hey! Have a great day, everybody. Well, maybe also our listeners, if they have questions for us. That would be helpful. That would be actually a really cool episode. We can sprinkle those.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Guys, I know and not plan for everything she's gonna say on this wonderful podcast.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Questions for me.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Expand her happiness and spontaneity with me, won't you?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Shush. I will take them into consideration.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Oh wow. The fingers out. Okay. Uh I hope you guys enjoyed this little peek behind our brains. We'll definitely do more of these because I think for us it keeps it lively. It breaks up the pace. Yeah. And it's important, I think, to honestly, I like these kind of larger philosophical questions about our professional experiences and identity because it it's helped me, it helps me think bigger than I sometimes do.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah, I do too, actually. I think I'll think about it that way next time.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

She's there's no right or wrong answer to get out to cautiously optimistic, everybody. This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only, and it's not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or any kind of professional mental health treatment. We hope that we can share with you our experience authentically and genuinely, and we hope that occasionally we'll make you laugh. Maybe you can relate to our quest and our sight for sanity. The content we share is um our personal opinions and insights. They're not clinical insights to anyone, and they don't represent or reflect any entity that we worked in or have worked for in the past. But if listening to this podcast has to make you think, we'd really encourage you to speak out a mental health professional in your area.