Episode 29 - Questions We've Never Asked Each Other: Part 2

https://youtu.be/KcVXLCBk9oU

In this special Q&A episode of Psyched for Sanity, Dr. Doss and Dr. Parker answer more questions about their experiences as psychologists, their professional journeys, and the perspectives that shape their work.

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***Listener Discretion Advised:
This episode contains discussions about mental health topics and real-life experiences that may not be suitable for all audiences. While the conversation includes humor and personal stories, some content may be sensitive or triggering. Listener discretion is advised.***


#PsychedForSanity #MentalHealthPodcast #Psychology #TherapyTalk #QandA

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hello, welcome to Psych for Sanity. I'm one of your co-hosts, Dr. Tara McKelvey Parker. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist. In private practice, I specialize in assessing and treating complex trauma and attachment wounds from childhood.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

And I am your other co-host, Dr. Brendel Doss. I specialize in geriatric psychology, forensic psychology, trauma treatment, and assessment. And are you ready? So a couple months ago, I saw a patient. Two months. Two to three patient. Yeah. Patient in um a long-term care facility, like in a nursing home. Okay. And this was a first assessment, which we call a diagnostic assessment. Uh-huh. And this gentleman is an older man. And um, I walk in and I do my assessment with him, and he's he's kind of confused. He maybe has some age-related cognitive climate. Very sweet. He answered my questions as best he could. Um and, you know, look it went, it went fine. He did well. I can definitely tell that he's, you know, very confused about things, things like, you know, he couldn't tell me exactly what his job was, things like that. But which is a little sad, but also like he was fine. He was not in distress.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

So then I go out and check in with the nurse, kind of give her my feedback, and then I leave for the day. So I come back next week to the same facility. And then the nurse says, I need to talk to you. And I said, Okay, what's going on? She's like, You know Mr. So and so. I said, Yes, of course. Is there a problem? She's like, Well, he came out, he rolled out in his wheelchair after you left, and said, Do you know why there was a strange boy asking me questions? Why there was a strange boy asking me questions in my room? That's hilarious. I've been holding on to the story and not telling you something here on this reaction on film until this very moment. I don't I don't mind. I mean, I am a little uncomfortable in my identity and all my parts of myself. But I just like, it was amazing and it was hilarious, and it was like so good. That is so funny. So, you know, I just he just knows there's a strange boy that visits him once a moment, asks him about his feelings and his emotions.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Has he gotten more used to the strange boy who comes in his room to ask?

SPEAKER_01 2:27

I don't see him as often. He's his his his cognitive cognition is not as much as we liked for for like talk therapy. Oh yeah. But yeah, but uh for a short time period, he just knew that he had a strange boy visit him once a week. Strange boy and like with a like a name tag.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Hey, and now I get to have a strange boy ask me some questions. She didn't even she literally just thought of this story to tell like right now. So that's it. Oh I'm so happy and proud of myself.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

You have no idea how proud I am right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

It maps on very well to what we're doing here because we wanted to do another because we thought it would be kind of it's fun, it's fun for us to do these. Yes, it is. Um, even though it makes me these more nervous it because I like to prepare for things.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

She's a planner.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

I'm a planner. I'm a planner too. But I think di different different planner. Different kind of planner. Yeah, we we have different approaches. But we thought it would be good to do QA, and so she is, you know, comes up with this story. I'm like, this is very appropriate because now I get to be asked questions by the strange boy. So you haven't heard of before necessarily.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

No, I don't know what I have no idea what you're gonna ask me. Right. That's part of the fun of it, the parts that terrifies her.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

That's the part that terrifies.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Because she wants to be prepared for everybody, listening and watching, which is great. But you have great responses, and part of why I wanted to do this podcast with you and why I love doing it with you, is because we have such organic, interesting, thoughtful conversations.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

So that's why. We think so.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

I don't know if you don't think so. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm you can go first, Mr. Strange Boy. Mr. What? Mr. Strange Boy.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

I'm just it's Mrs. Strange Boy to you. Well. Um, okay. What is something people misunderstand about what you do and or your profession? People that are not in the world of mental health or psychology.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

That's a good question. Thank you. The first thing that crossed my mind is that as uh I think people tend to perceive or think that we as psychologists have all of the answers or that we are going to be able to fix something or change something. I think people maybe give us a bit more power in that way than than we have. Um and so that can be an interesting conversation and therapy with people when they come in and the expectation is like you're going to fix it, to fix me. And you know, it's going to be easy and there's like a prescripted way to do this. Sure. And um, yeah, I'll be all good and and done with therapy. I'm like, well, yeah, that would be great. It I I it would be, and I would love to be able to be like, this is exactly what you need to do. Sure. And this is going to make you feel better, and then you won't need any help ever again. But I always tell people if that was the case.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

If I had like a magic wand, I'd I'd have a lot more money and a lot more free time.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Right. But I don't. Well, right. I often will say the magic wand thing because I have of course like would love to be able to make things better for everyone, you know, quickly. That would be wonderful. Um, but it's just way more complicated and more nuanced than that. And I'm a guide, I have a lot of information and knowledge and training that my patients don't necessarily have, but you, the patient knows yourself better than me. Absolutely. And always will. Always will, and also are going to go at your own pace in your own way, and also there are going to be ebbs and flows in progress, and it may require, you know, several different kinds of like treatment approaches. There are multiple I like to tell people sort of multiple layers or sort of facets of healing and treatment too. And I I do long-term work, so I'm always thinking about like phases, you know, and and and and length of time, and I always want to go deep and it it takes a little bit, it takes longer. So my approach, you know, if you want a solution or you want, you know, that would be a or like a quick approach or or a more like formulated kind of treatment, that it I wouldn't be like the best fit.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Well, yeah, and I think a lot of people use the word advice when I when I and some of my sessions, and I said, you know, my my job isn't really to give you advice. I might give you feedback or thoughts on things.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Well, yes, and sometimes I will give advice.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

That's not necessarily, but that's not my how I operate.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

That's not necessarily like going is not going to be the treatment or the goal of treatment. Right. I I'm very aware that I give advice sometimes, and then my patients are are like, I'm not gonna do that. Or they they they like say they're going to, and then it's like something emotional gets in the way from them trying the thing, or like it's yeah, there's like a million reasons why.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

You know what comes up a lot in my patients, like, oh, do you give homework or can you know can't and I always say, you know, I'm not a big homework girly, like for two two to three reasons. Number one, I will probably forget the homework I gave you. Number one, number two, as soon as we're done with this conversation and session, you will probably potentially will forget and will not do the homework that is assigned. And so Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

And I would probably give the homework and then I would watch what happens, and then I would process the dynamic that unfolds. Sure. And it would be like a very useful relational tool. Yeah. And also like sometimes the homework is super helpful for some and and can like structure you know, their treatment. And I'm fine with it, but it I would say most of the time people who ask for homework don't want it consistently, or it does like there's like something else going on relationally, emotionally. Yeah. So it's it's just all super interesting and fascinating and complicated, and it's never just like, here's this homework.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Well, and I I will give my folks at the end of a session, so you know, I encourage you to think about this or how this works for you over this next week, or be curious about how this shows up for you. Yeah. And that way, that's not in my mind homework, but it's like this is like a way to go forward throughout the week and carry forward our work or our our processing.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Sure. Yeah. So there's different so um, yeah. So that is the first thing that crossed my mind with your with that question. So, okay. I'll ready. I'll shoot with my first. Go ahead. I'm ready. Okay. So what do you think it means to live psychologically well? Oh.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Can I have a definition of the term?

SPEAKER_00 9:07

I think it can be whatever you want it to be. Okay. You can even make it, you know, a little bit more simple. What do you think it means to to live a good life? There's a podcast I listen to called The Good Life Project, and the question at the end is always like, what do you think it means to live a good life? Or interesting. Yeah, a healthy life or something.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

I always tend to shy away. I'm glad you framed it psychologically well. Uh-huh. Because I really struggle with constructs of good and bad. Yeah. I don't I absolutely don't use them. I try not to use them in treatment. A lot of my patients use them, and I always try to reframe it what's helpful and hurtful. Yeah. So this would always I think this question is going to be based, the answer is gonna be based on how I operate in my personal and professional spheres. Okay. Which is from a very relational lens. I'm a huge I'm a relationship girly. Relationships are very important to me. Are they? Yeah. I believe you. I know. We have a friendship. In real life, we're actually friends. We are so relationships, as you know, are very important to me. Um, and how I show up in those relationships um has changed as I've grown older and how I try to show up. Um and so I think to live a life us like live a psychologically well life would be to really invest and nurture in myself intra intrapersonally inside myself, within my own being, and to invest in interpersonal relationships in a way that's meaningful and valuable. I come at that because a lot of what I face in my day job, which is I work in nursing homes and long-term care, is a lot of people that really feel like they are no longer useful to people in their lives. And I always try to help them reframe that because there's a lot that can be limiting about people living in long-term care. Um, they don't have as much independence or autonomy or they need help with a lot more things, and that's really frustrating. I always try to honor that. But the role they can always play in someone's life is how they show up in other people's lives. Whether it's a text message to a grandkid or like a phone call um to a um, you know, a f a fail a family friend. Right. How they can connect with people and be present. And that's not advice giving at all. Sometimes it can be advice giving, but it can just be listening, it can be validating or being present, or just holding still with someone in silence. Um I think that's what I try to help people of that generation that I work with look at so that way they find value and use in their personhood, even in a place and stage that is can be very limiting.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

And so that's where from my frame reference as a almost 42-year-old human person woman, I try to invest in those relationships and do that now.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

If I can.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah, I agree. I think relationship is really important. I also think a lot about distress tolerance. You know, when you said investing in yourself as a person, I think. Emotion regulation. I just kind of think about, yeah, being able to tolerate the, you know, I want to say good and bad, but that's a little bit too simplistic. But the positive and the negative experiences that we have in life and the ordinary experiences and the day-to-day stuff. Being able to sort of hold all of it and tolerate all of it and know that it's all super normal and what makes us human to be a little bit more content in that space, I think would be good. Are you ready for your next question?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

You're not ready, are you? Probably not. No. What do you think the future will look like in terms of therapy and assessment in 20 to 30 years?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Okay, like my doomsday brain just kicked in and I was like, Cool, let's hear it. No, no, I mean, let's what's your like honest answer though? Like we're like, I feel like at a precipice of a lot of things in this in this field.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

It feels to to be honest, what it feels like to me sometimes is that there is a wealth of knowledge. We have a lot of knowledge, way more knowledge now about therapy and mental health. Outcomes, research, we have tons. Well, and just even like social media, like we there's a lot more, yes, there's just a lot more awareness of mental health issues, but it feels like there's not enough support or help. So I think I mentioned I think like I mentioned this. I think, you know, like if I had a magic wand and I could, you know, in our last Q ⁇ A. So I guess my like hyper-vigilant sort of doomsday part of my brain is like, well, maybe there'll like be a lot more people who need help with not enough help. That's like my Is that your fear? That's my fear. Okay, I think, is that we're not necessarily going in a positive direction with being able to support the amount of awareness that we have and the amount of oh, the amount of need. The amount of need, okay. Right. And I think we have we're we're just more and more aware of the need because more and more people are becoming aware of like their own mental health. Yeah. You know, obstacles or challenges. So it feels like an explosion of awareness and information. And not enough resources. And not enough resources. Interesting. So to me That's not the answer I thought you'd come up with for. Really? What did you think I was gonna come up with?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

That's the first thing that crossed my mind. I guess in my mind, I thought you'd be much more like maybe it's more my answer than yours, like looking at how the intersection of AI and therapy and AI and assessment.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Oh, okay, okay, yeah. That's that's sort of my answer. Okay, that makes sense too, that maybe some of it will be like more automated or something. I do really think.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

I wonder you know, I don't think it's gonna replace completely. Because I think the need for like a human person will always like be there. Like I think as we've gotten more technology heavy in the world and in society, there's been a pushback in certain certain small areas for like I have I have friends that have kids, and instead of getting them a cell phone, they got them a landline. You know what I mean? That kind of almost like intentionally pushing us back to the nineties. So I think there'll be pockets of people that still want to create that to be in a room with a person. We've seen that after COVID.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yes, yes, yes. But I do so this is a good point, and kind of, yeah, maybe ties into what I was saying is that because I think the need is going to be so high, yes, sometimes things get a little bit like oversimplified or muddied, or like the tr what's available is not as helpful. Like I have certainly talked to Chat GPT about some of my like I've had questions, right, about my own mental health or whatever. Like, you know, sometimes I will type in this long paragraph rant and it will help me organize my thinking, but it doesn't at all replace me going to my own therapy, my own therapist. Like it's not the same. I I think because I'm so real we're both so relational, you know, like it would be I I just don't think that is necessarily like the most helpful long term or beneficial. Like we need human engagement, and there's you know so but AI like can be helpful just in a limited Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

I don't know how it's gonna interface. I I already think it's interfacing in ways that we don't fully recognize totally. I think with a lot of the AI systems that therapists are using in different platforms to like write notes and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

That's true, yeah. There's a lot more AI use for note writing and things like that, of course, if you're compliant and like you know, confidential, but it kind of muddies things, makes things easier. Some you know, and some things are easier, some things would be harder. Some things are harder, yeah. Good point, okay. Yeah, that's a good point. Um, what about uh do you think that too much awareness can become it is helpful? Do you think too much awareness is helpful or harmful? Awareness like in just a in the is a blanket term or like Yeah, you can fill in the however however you want to take it in your way.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

So um I I have a I'm hello, my name is Dr. Dawson. I'm weird. I have this thing and it doesn't distress me or repair my function, but it's just how my brain works. Uh-huh. I am really not continuously, but pretty intermittently aware of a lot of really hard, big, uh, challenging, uncomfortable things that occur in the world. And I think that can come from the places that I've worked, even specifically within our field. I think mental health professionals deal with uh you people typically don't go to therapy when things are going great. Right? Yeah. Some people do, yeah. Some people do. Not everyone, but I think even in the job sites that I've chosen, uh-huh, federal prisons, yes, long-term care, even um, I've worked in HIV clinics, I've worked just in a lot of really specialized, almost niche populations. And I think because I've had those experiences, I'm kind of constantly aware that some someone somewhere is being hurt in some way. Oh no. So this is what you asked, awareness. Is it is is it a too much awareness a good thing or a bad thing? Yeah. And I, you know, I don't love good and bad, but the way I try to zoom out is to re keep myself in a regulated place because you can't constantly be aware of all the pain and suffering in the world without some level of nihilism developing, which I would like to avoid.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

As I always just try to zoom into what can I do today in this moment with who I'm with.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, and I think too much like personal sometimes. I think like too much personal awareness, like when we're just like in our heads.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

I think about it as being in our heads or being like constantly thinking, or like almost like a cognitive distortion anxiety kind of vibe.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yeah, or like kind of constantly like monitoring the self, like that kind of awareness. Yeah, like am I doing that right? Or like, what is that person thinking, or like I need to be doing this more. Yeah, that kind of is too much. That's too intense. I do feel like there is a space where there can be too much awareness in a distressing kind of way, like you're saying too. But I also think, you know, there are some things that I like put my blinders up and like don't want to be aware of that. Yeah, you're really good at that. I don't have that ability as much. I mean, with the world stuff, the world happenings, like I tend to yeah, to shut that stuff out a little bit. I'm very aware.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

I'm like I'll be like, da da da. You're like, what?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, who?

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Where? And I'm like, how can you not know about this? You're like, I don't know. I don't pay attention. That that's not that's not what I look at. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

I know.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Well, and sometimes that feels irresponsible to me.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Right? Like sometimes I think I think it might be effective coping at different times. Sure. It depends on how rigidly I'm using it. And I mean it's you know, my patients will bring things in all the time, and I'm like, you know, so I inevitably get the information, but I don't love to hear about all of the terrible things that are happening.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

No, I think it's part of my individual experience and how I've learned to manage it. I we were I was this has happened a long time ago. I was telling my our friend Caroline about this, and this was like this was at least five or six years ago, and I explained this to her and she just kind of stared at me. She's like, Whoa. She's like, that's not probably a good thing all the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Like, you know how she's you know that level of like psychic awareness of of the world at large. I I mean sometimes I tell my patients who are overly consuming this stuff that it would it it it is probably more helpful to put up some limits and boundaries around.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

And it's not even from like inputs from like media or anything like that, it's just like historical knowledge of reality.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah. What do you mean when you say that?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

I'm trying to say this in a way that we're not gonna get censored. Oh right now, someone somewhere is being hurt. Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Sure, sure. I see what you're saying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Right now, someone, some animal somewhere of knowing that concept. Statistically, right. See right now, someone, some animal somewhere is is being hurt. Can you think about that? That's a lot of fun. Not all the time. No, not all the it's not, it doesn't impair function. That's why I started off saying it that way. It does not impair my function. It is a part of what's one of my facets and one of my experiences.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

It doesn't feel like too much awareness, but it could be.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

It doesn't limit my ability to be present with my children, to do my job, to sleep at night, to eat, to take care of my ADLs.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Your ADLs, your activities of daily life.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yes, listen, that's that's a nursing home right there. You never gotta you gotta get you gotta make sure that you can rotate in the bed.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

You gotta you gotta keep your ADLs up. Okay. Um so I think that, you know, that's just a part of me. And I'm like, I think it like it can be like surprising to people that don't know that, like Caroline's response. But I think I think it actually makes me um demonstrating for people that have big emotions in session that I can tolerate really really intense emotional experiences, be impacted, feel that, and then find a way to metabolize, process through, and move through that experience without impairing function has been super helpful to a lot of my patients. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So as we're like QAing, are you becoming more open to this now? Do you like a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah, I'm actually really liking like okay, you need to calm down right now. That is she's what she's doing the most right now, and she's going to freak me out, and I'll never do it again.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Oh well. There's there's the rigidity we're trying to fight, guys.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Um yes, but actually, yeah, this has been a lot easier at this time around doing the QA, I think, for me. It's nice to just get into a conversation with you.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah, this is exactly how when we first started, I envisioned things because we would just go to dinner and just like the weird term would be riff, but just like talk and process and like share about things that are interesting or cool or fascinating or confusing to us as professional, also as personal humans. As personal. Because we're in a personal relationship. Humans. We're in a friendship. We're still friends, you can't take that back. I won't take it back.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I don't want to take it back. Awww. Even though we did super, super crazy weird jazz hands a second ago. That was all fucking weird. Weird.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

I'm gonna own all of my all of my um pieces of myself, and I'm gonna appreciate them and love them, even if you think they're uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

This is all experimentation. I'm just trying to like wear her down, apparently. She's not working. It's not working. She's a diamond. She's resilient.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah, the harder you push, the the the more shiny I get. Oh, well you didn't see that one coming, did you?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

I did not see that one coming.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

We didn't get to talk about Harry Potter, but next time.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Next time we'll talk about Harry Potter.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

If you want us to talk more about Harry Potter or not.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Yeah, or if you have questions for us, please. Yeah, send them because we would love to include them in another QA session. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Things that are confusing to you, things you don't understand, or things you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

And two, just in general, like topics. If you're if you have a topic of interest in mind for the podcast, we'd love to hear that kind of feedback.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

So let us know your thoughts. Maybe you can relate to our quest and how we're psyched for sanity. The content we share is our personal opinions and insights. They are not clinical insights to anyone, and they don't represent or reflect any entity that we worked in or have worked for in the past. But if listening to this podcast has made you think, we really encourage you to seek out a mental health professional in your area.