Episode 32: Give Us This Day Our Daily Work

Today’s episode follows a conversation that Sara had with a friend going through a very messy divorce.
It’s easy to feel confused at exactly where a relationship went wrong. And it’s also good practice to draw learnings from the relationship, so you know better next time.
However, we all have blind spots and self-awareness gaps (to differing extents) that can
make this reflection process hard to do.

In this episode, we talk about:

•  How “doing the work” is ongoing and never stops. Doing it a year ago (or even a month ago) starts a snowball effect!
•  The ego tricks us into thinking we’re doing the work. But all that’s happening is they are talking around the issue, rather than addressing the “elephant in the room”
•  How “the work” always starts with you first.
•  The success of couples therapy depends on the work done outside therapy.

We want to hear your thoughts and questions, so if there's anything you would like us to cover on the show, please drop us a line on 

info@thebone-zone.com 

And if you want to check out Sara’s solo podcast, The Mind Body Spirit Accelerator – where
she gives you simple neuroscience-based tips (that actually work) to create the life you want, you can check it out on:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033kZ5sPIbZkkQe6j6xJkH?si=99231cc2e65c4d8a or

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mind-body-spirit-accelerator/id1896793868

Transcript

0:05

Welcome to the Bone Zone. I'm Sarah. And I'm Richard. And in this podcast, we excavate sex and relationship myths and uncover the truth of how it all really works. We bridge the esoteric and practical worlds to bring you grounded, sage, and tangible advice and tools, whether you're looking to attract a soulmate relationship or grow and expand within an existing one. Hello. Hello. Welcome to another episode of The So. Do do do do do do do. No, that's the toilet. Okay. Um. Have we really done the work? The work people say I did this, people say I did that. And I don't understand why my relationship has ended. And you're interrupting already. We're five seconds in. I mean, woman. You're so good. The interruptor. Yeah, I mean, I could be professional interruption. I'm just gonna sit back and just my train of thought. People often say, I've done this course, I went to this seminar. How often do they come back, put all their notes wherever, and say they never revisit the course, they never put to practice action tools that they've learned. Because a lot of things, if you study them and if you do the work, they can actually produce very, very good results. And that is also no more so evident than in relationships. People think that they've tried, but they haven't. It's either because well, actually, it is because it's a lack of self-awareness. It's a lack of self-awareness, but also we live in a day and age where there's a pill for every ill. Oh, I can feel better immediately with a pill. So I don't think there's a relationship pill you can take. It's like take this pill and your relationship will be magical. If so, don't you think? There isn't a relationship pill, but it's this the as quickness that people want things to happen. Oh, yes. And so it in the relationship there isn't a pill, so they just don't bother because it's too hard. Well, actually, no, I mean yes and no. You always do that. Yeah, I agree, but also I disagree. You do that a lot, which is interesting. I do. Okay, go for it. Now talk. Well, even with a pill, right, you can't just take a pill once, and like if we're talking about some kind of long-term thing that you're taking a pill for, you can't just take it once and be like, oh great, it's cured, or whatever your thing is. That's not what people are looking at, people are looking at it as an alleviation of the symptoms. So But excuse me, sorry, I hadn't finished my point here. I interrupted you. Yeah, it was rude, it was very, isn't it terrible? Okay, so my point here is you have to take a pill consistently in order for the uh symptoms to continue to be managed over time. Correct. But people do not apply the same logic when doing the work in inverted commas on their relationship. They're like, Yeah, yeah, I did the work, we did this, we went therapy, and I'm gonna share a story in a moment to demonstrate this point. But um, they're like, Yeah, I did this, I did that, and then it turns out they did at some point in time indeed do something that resembled the work, but they stopped doing it, and then they're like, Oh no, but I did the work. Doing the work 10 years ago or even a year ago or even a month ago is not enough. You wouldn't expect to just take this pill on occasion, whatever pill it happens to be HLT or whatever, and expect you know the effects to be ongoing. Well, also when you say doing the work, it doesn't just mean going on date night once a week. That's just yes, we've been on date night once a week, we've done what you've done and nothing worked. Well, guess what? Going out to dinner once a week doesn't mean shit. Yes. Unless most of our date nights are good, but but there's a few of them where we've gone deep and we've argued and we've fought at the fucking dinner table and resolved shit. Yes. Um that's doing the work. And actually, I'm gonna come to some because this story is actually really a powerful demonstrator. Sure. Um, it's date night tonight. Who knows what kind of date night? You keep interrupting, we'll fucking see what happens on date night tonight. Okay, so I was seeing a um a very old friend of mine, as in, she's been friends with me for a long time. She's not very old in age, to clarify. And um she is going through what can only be described as an extremely vitriolic divorce at the moment. Putting it lightly. Yes, putting it lightly. Don't need to go into any of the details, so um, I mean, I'm sure you all can imagine what that might look like. Anyway, she understandably is trying to take out some lessons from this experience because she doesn't want to repeat certain relationship patterns again, and she is basically saying, Sarah, she asked me what we do, and she said to me, Sarah, we did all of that, we did it, and like, so I'm still no clearer really on what I do in my next relationship. And I'm like, okay. What did she actually sorry? What did you do? I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna go into detail now because this is important, but it's just to demonstrate the point that people feel like they're doing the work because they're kind of flapping their guns at some point or we're just going through emotions, yeah, and chatting about stuff, but actually nothing gets resolved. So here are a few key points. I'm gonna first say some of the things that I said to her. So making sure that you uh clear things out emotionally regularly, making sure that you are vulnerable, that you talk through emotions properly, that you talk through how you're feeling, that you are radically honest with each other in the course of the relationship, even if the other person becomes defensive, and that's fine, you know. Even if someone's emotionally triggered, you let them, or you let yourself, and then you come back to it. You don't just be like, right, I'm emotionally triggered, that's the end, and let's never revisit, let's just continue talking about it. And don't storm off. No, you can store more. It's better to do that than to um store more and then come back and discuss. Yeah. Not just store more things, then that's it. Yes. So, anyway, and so she was like, Oh, we saw a therapist, we went on date night, we did this, we did that, we did the other. Um, so and then her conclusion was, well, we did all of those things, and you know, it still didn't work, and I don't understand why it deteriorated. So I was like, let me tell you. Firstly, point one, they did all of those things at some point in their relationship. That was the point in their relationship when they prioritized the actual relationship, not you have kids, and then all of your conversations become about the kids and the logistics and parenting. So at some point when they actually prioritise their relationship, they were having these long high-quality conversations, they were having sex, and there was not there were not the same issues that started to happen later in the relationship. Now that communication stopped, I'd say, probably around three years ago now. And I will say that they still did token attempts to quote unquote repair that relationship. But that's what they were, token attempts. So we're gonna go to therapy because that's what you do when uh you're in trouble as a couple. And um the interesting thing about this, and um I pointed out this to her, although she didn't remember, but I remember quite clearly that they were discussing something with a therapist, and she was talking to me and she had her perception on it, and I said, Do you discuss these things outside of therapy? And she said to me, Oh, well, that's a really good point. And I'm like, one hour of therapy a week and don't talk otherwise is going to fix absolutely nothing. So there is the consistency of conversation. You can't just do it at some point and then stop, because even if you stop for a few weeks, things start to decline. We notice this as well. If we're feeling a bit disconnected, it's usually because we haven't really spent the same level of policy time together. True. So that's one point. The second point is really dealing with the issues at hand. So I'll give the example of the person that's been going to therapy for 10 years, yet they are depressed, they're binge eating, they are basically really suffering with their mental health. And they say, Oh, I'm therapy, so I'm doing something. It's amazing how we can convince ourselves that we're doing mental work. This is the thing, and I'm not saying this by any means about all therapists. I am an advocate of therapy, and I've been seeing my therapist for a very long time now. Um, not because I have any issues, but because I understand the importance of being able to go deeper and deeper with emotion. Anyway, what can happen in therapy is that you tend to go over the same stories again and again and again, simply reinforcing the neural pathways in your brain around that story, and you kind of get stuck there and you don't move forward. The other thing that can happen in therapy is that you end up talking around the issue. You never really get to the root cause of anything because you're too busy talking around the elephant in the room and not about the actual elephant in the room. And that actually was one of the, in my opinion, the major causes of decline in that relationship. Nothing if we're talking about an elephant in a room, the elephant in the room was never addressed at an individual level. So obviously, to have a harmonious relationship, each person needs to do their respective work on themselves and then the work together. Now, if one or both of those things are off and no one, or even if one person does address the elephant in the room and the other person doesn't, you can see how the elephant just gets bigger and bigger and bigger as everyone just avoids talking about it. And then, yes, you may, as she argued, you may be having conversations about feelings and emotions, but you're not really talking about the root of anything, and therefore you're not really resolving anything. So, what happens is if you continue to do that, is the frustration and the resentment just builds up and up and up. Also, I and sorry, yeah, just one more point here. It makes people feel better sometimes, be like, oh but I tried to be frank in a lot of cases where someone says they're trying, they're kind of not really. And I say this because I've done this as well. I'm like, I'm really, really trying to do this, you know, I'm doing my bet. And then when I actually sit down with myself and I'm honest, I'm like, Sarah, are you really doing this properly? Or are you kind of doing it as a tick box thing? And I'm like, oh. Yeah, but you're being honest with yourself. Yeah. You're pointing the finger at yourself. It's normally when the people have these these uh the discussions, they're um saying, Well, you're making me feel like see, you're pointing the finger. It kind of gets the other person's differences off more than saying something like, I am feeling like this. I find that kind of quite a big difference because normally is it the other person or is it yourself? No, I find the thing is that ourselves very often do we? Well, you can't no one can make you feel a way that you don't feel already at some level. Yeah. And so then in romantic relationships, those buttons get pushed probably more than in any other kind of relationship, but all relationships will probably push buttons at some time. Um the issue is around whether you can have the level of honesty towards yourself first, and then that comes into the relationship. Otherwise, again I've had like tells them couples therapy, and they spend time literally just talking about how they're irritated about housework or the house not being clean enough, or this and that, or the other. Everyone knows that that's not really the problem. Everyone knows that. Well, do you mean? Sorry, let's take the case of my friend, because I was I said to her, look, we we argue, we don't we had a massive argument on date night about coat hangers, and the first thing she said to me was, Well, it wasn't about coat hangers, and I'm like, exactly, it wasn't about coat hangers. I cannot remember what the actual roots emotion was or what it was about, but I know I think about me not putting myself first when you walked in and putting yourself first stealing my last coat hanger. Yeah, yeah. That's what that was about. Do I? Some of that. No, I'm not sure. Absolutely not angry at all. And you know, unfortunately, this when you come out of a relationship without that real honest look at everything that went on in the last relationship, you are probably going to make some of those mistakes again. And if we come on to the topic of narcissists, which I don't tend to overly talk about, but it's you know, it's quite out in the open at the moment, you know, women talking about being with narcissistic men and the other way around as well. Narcissists are attracted towards people who have low self-esteem in some way. Now, it may not be obvious, so you would look at my friend and be like, she doesn't have low self-esteem, she has like really, really high self-esteem. But I know that to not be true. I know that there are areas of deep insecurity, and if there weren't, you simply wouldn't be a match for being with a person that had narcissistic tendencies. Again, I can say this as having been with someone, I don't know, supposing was a narcissist, people didn't really use that word 20 years ago, but yeah, you used the word dickhead 20 years ago. I used the word psycho. Oh yeah, psycho, psycho-dickhead, yes. So he was a narcissist. Yes, by modern style. I I still don't refer to him as that, but I refer to it as an emotionally abusive relationship. It was because I had self-esteem issues. For sure, 100%, even though it might have not looked very obviously like I did. And it gets trickier when you get older and you feel like you are more confident, but you know, that there does always tend to be something, which is why radical honesty is really helpful because I have high self-esteem, I have confidence, but there are for sure areas that tend to crop up where I will be having a really limiting thought about myself, and I don't want to let that train run away with it, or run away with that thought train because that can can start to snowball. Wow. It's all about us, isn't it, really? Yes. It really truly is. Yes, it it is always about us. We've talked about this before, you know, people treat you the way you treat yourself. So I mean this is a classic example. And it's been um kind of snowballing. Well, it's snowballed out of control now, isn't it? Yes, uh now it is very much snowballed out of control. Um but the signs have been there for many years now. Yes, they have. Um whether whether they are prepared to miss or not, well, I mean, to a certain degree, I mean I haven't talked to him in a very long time, um, but to a certain degree she has um a level of awareness around it, but I'm still seeing things that perhaps she's not seeing. So as a separate point here, what do you do when you have a friend and you can't just steam in there thinking it's thinking it's saying everything you're thinking? Well you can't fix them, can you? Yeah, so I actually just really asked questions that enabled her to reflect. What was the best way? You try and find information from her by asking questions and not imposing yourself, even if you have a hundred percent foolproof right answer and a solution, a whole suite of solutions for this problem. It's not your place, and there's still one listen, probably. It's um I I was also combining it with gentle challenge, because you know, again, what I find is unhelpful is allowing someone to go down the victim train. So challenging that kind of thinking is something that I wanted to do with her as well because she is not a victim, like she is fucking tough as well, tough as hell. So, you know, it's like well, she feels the victim in this case. Yes, but again, she was relatively open to challenge because as long as you're not trying to be pushy, and believe me, I've suffered from this um and have had from no, I've had friends quite rightly tell me to back a fuck off. I've told you to back a fuck off. Yeah, and I've I'm glad they did because I needed to learn a lesson of you don't need to you don't jump in there and give advice unless it's asked. Well, it came from a good place. That's not the point though. No, it's not the point. So the work is in this case is to be quiet and you ask. Well, if you're if you're asked, then you answer. And if you're not, then you can gently sow the seeds by asking questions of your own. And this is actually another point in, you know, I don't actually think I said this the other day, but this is another point. Don't push. I think we've talked about this before. But again, uh, it's very easy to slip into that. And the more you push, the more the person goes the other way. And that's exactly an another dynamic that tended to happen here because we've got uh someone who is very dominant. It's that law of opposing forces again, isn't it? Yes. It's like stop easing like that, stop easing like that, you're gonna kill yourself. Um don't do this, don't do that, but it was on both sides, so it kind of feels it starts to feel like it on each side the other person is the enemy. Yes, and they're both running away from themselves and each other. Yeah. So anyway, we just uh thought it would be a good idea to share some of the learnings from this particular conversation. And the work is tough, it's never easy, but this is how you grow, right? And it's ongoing, it's not like oh, I did it a year ago, it's fine. No. We are working every day. Actually, we haven't had an argument in months. Yeah, we have coat hang on. That was just you being silly and showing me how I it was quite it was quite an aggressive argument, actually. Yeah, well we had a couple of glasses of wine and uh anyway, it never touched my fucking coat hangers again. That's all I think. He bought me some new coat hangers in case anyone was wondering. I did, I bought her ten coat hangers. Now there's no excuse. Yeah, no excuse hanging. Anyway, folks, we hope you enjoyed the contents of this podcast. Um we will catch you. Unless you have anything else to add, we will catch you. Catch you on the next one. Bye. Bye. We'd like to thank you for tuning in and listening to this episode today. If you like what you heard, I invite you to follow our show. And if you really liked our show, head over and leave a review on your podcast app of choice. We also want to hear your thoughts and questions. So if there's anything you would like us to cover on the show, please drop us a line on the email below. Thank you for listening, and until next time.