The "Flaming" Sandwich Generation

We have had a lot of requests to talk about the sandwich generation - where we are raising kids and helping or caring for aging parents. 

We talk about: 

• The guilt and shame that comes with trying to navigate multiple things that are essentially competing personal values
• Navigating things as a solo parent or only child
• The role in community and the ways relationships change over time and as new challenges arise
• The things outside of our control that impact our friendships, including things with our kids and their personalities and needs
• How we prioritize community and connection and how that impacts the difficulty in the messy middle of the sandwich generation
• How the way we feel mentally and physically and the ways it impacts relationships and community, for better or worse
• The choices we have to make to avoid burnout but still try to have a full and fulfilling life
• The way "flares" of the sandwich can trigger deep trauma and deplete you further when people are counting on you the most
• The importance of connected knowing
• The competition between our lifelong messages to be selfless and the fact that we do actually have a self that deserves attention

Book referenced: Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily and Amelia Nagoski

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Sandwich Generation and Its Relevance
01:55 Personal Stories: Weekend Overload and Emotional Toll
03:41 Defining the Sandwich Generation: Responsibilities and Challenges
06:12 Financial Concerns and Future Uncertainties
08:52 The Role of Community and Support Networks
12:39 Changing Dynamics of Friendships and Social Support
16:07 Juggling Multiple Responsibilities and Burnout
19:35 The Flare of Stress and Unresolved Childhood Issues
23:35 The Importance of Connected Knowing and Empathy
27:01 Supporting Each Other: Practical Acts of Kindness
31:38 The Myth of Selflessness and Self-Care Challenges
33:47 Finding Meaning and Growth in the Sandwich Experience

If our messy is your kind of messy, we would love for you to rate, review and follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. 

We would also love to know what is on your mind. If you were to join us, what would we be talking about? Email us at messymidlifepodcast@gmail.com or message us on Instagram or TikTok @messymidlifepodcast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Real women.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Real talk. Real messy. This is messy midlife. Hi everybody and welcome back to messy midlife. Hi ladies. Hello. How are you guys doing today? We're good.

unknown 0:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Invigorated.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Yeah. Now, one of the conversations that has come up multiple times, but we haven't directly talked about it, especially looking at you, Karen, from the therapy perspective, but there's so many things that can come up from it, is the sandwich generation. It's come up so many times, directly and indirectly in our conversations, because of all of the ways that being in this sandwich generation space impacts us. And we've had some requests to talk about it in a little bit more detail. So how do you feel about tackling that today?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

It's always relevant in our lives, I feel like.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah. And before we got started talking, we were like, okay, just before we dive in, is there anything in particular that so none of us derails the conversation? And we were like, okay, is this what's going on in your mind? Here's some things that people have asked us to talk about. And Karen, you had shared that it's particularly relevant in your life right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Coming off of the weekend. Yeah. I mean, I think it's always relevant as an umbrella topic because I'm always juggling my mom and my child, and they take up a lot of bandwidth and I love them dearly. And it is, it's a lot, especially in a time in my life when I need so much. And having to find, you know, those little little spaces to tackle all of the things that are mine is hard to do right now. So yeah, I had a weekend full of karate testing, which was all Friday and Saturday. And then Sunday was managing Saturday, Sunday. There was tons of overlap there. So I met this thing for my son, and I'm, you know, fielding calls on an issue that my mom is having. And somewhere in the middle of all of that, lie all of my unmet needs that I just have to find a time to deal with it and you know, whenever I can do it. And I do, thankfully. But it's just full. I feel like that's the word for the sandwich generation. It's full.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

I feel like we had some similar weekends, but with very different things. So, sandwich generation, what we're talking about here is the people who are both raising a future generation and whose parents are aging and needing more support in more arenas that we are finding ourselves needing to step into, having to navigate, helping people on who are both older than us and younger than us, while we're also trying to navigate our own stuff. And it always tends to fall when we have some of the highest level of responsibilities at work and are still really working on establishing our own security. So we've got also a lot of stresses and pressures because we are worried about the what's going to happen for the generation that we are raising and worrying about what's going to happen to ourselves as we see what's happening to the generation that we are helping as they are aging and coming more toward the end of their lives. And so we're thinking about all of this and then also like, oh my gosh, this is gonna cost so much money. So now I need to work and I have to focus on all these things, and I still need to save all of this. And what about the stock market? And what about what's gonna happen with oil prices? And what is that gonna do? And is there even gonna be any retirement support or social security by the time we retire? But we still have to pay this as we're going up into tax season, and it just gets to be so much. But my weekend was also tongue sudo, which is like Korean karate, tongue sudo testing, and prepping for a birthday party and a first soccer game of the season and having people, you know, my uh mother-in-law staying at our house and just all of the, all of the things. So yeah, it's thankfully I'm not in the place that my parents or my mother-in-law are really needing a lot of support. There's just things that come up sometimes that are just, you know, bigger picture right now for my family of making sure that we're including people and that people are feeling as good as possible, but also recognizing that it's really up to them to feel how they're gonna feel and that I'm not responsible for other people's feelings, but also still recognizing that my choices and my decisions impact how people are feeling. And this is where we get, right? That all of these things that I just spun out of control is probably just how everybody feels a lot of time in sandwich generation.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

I think there's also, at least for me, like a component of guilt, you know, that I'm like not there.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

For my parents, my dad, you know, in a time of need where because I have the responsibilities at home, I'm not able to be. And that's like a that's a really difficult part too, I think for me. And I'm sure for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

This is like the guilt and shame podcast. I feel like we talk about guilt and shame so frequently, but how much does that actually just come up in midlife? How is that just being I mean, or just being human? I mean, it's just part of being a human.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

I think just being human, but I think that's a that is part of it when you have responsibilities pulling you in different directions and you're having to place more importance on one of them in a way, right? So, which is interesting because, like in my heart, the importance is being with my dad and my stepdad, right? But then logistically, it's just not possible. Driving to school and doing drop-off and pickup and not leaving a child on their own, right? Like, there's just there's so there's so many dynamics that are pulling and twisting.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

I'm with you there. So I'm grateful that my parents are not in that place right now. And I know they will be, and it is on my mind because I live across the country from my parents. I grew up in Ohio. My parents still live in Ohio. My only other living sibling that also doesn't live in the same state and doesn't have the same level of relationship that I have. And so it's on my mind about what will happen when that time comes and the torn feelings that I will have, because I already know what will happen to a degree. I know that when I get that call, I will be on the next plane that I can be on, flying to Ohio to be there to take care of and help my parents. And I will be there as long as I need to be. And it means I am going to have to be away from the most important person in my life for a period of time that is going to feel very hard, which is, you know, my daughter. My daughter is the most important person in my life, and I cannot disrupt her life. I can't take her out of school if it happens that it's during the school year. She's gonna have to stay with her dad and go to school and we'll figure out all of the stuff. But it is the logistics are already a bit on my mind because when you're in that sandwich generation, even if you're not actively dealing with something like that, you are very aware that it is coming at some point. And what do you do when it comes? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

So I mean, send her to Auntie's house.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I'm I'm fortunate that I have a husband who uh, you know, and a partner that I, you know, don't have any like there's no issues. Like he is a good dad. We have some differences in our parenting, and he is a good dad and is very capable.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

So I'm like, I'm just like I like would love to hang out with her.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

And I'm sure that he would be her yes, I'm sure that he would be very grateful to have a break, just like you gave me a break from her w when he was away for a long-term volunteer project that he was doing, and I just needed to get some things done. So there's the but not everybody has that support, you know. And I, even though I I have a different relationship and I would say much better relationship with my parents than my brother does, I also at least have a brother. Karen, you're doing this alone.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

I was actually just thinking about that. Being a singleton definitely changes things. Now, on that same note, we have lost all of the other three grandparents. And so it is just my mom, which I mean, for better or worse, makes it easier because it's just one parent. But yeah, I think community is so important during this time, this sandwich period. And it's really palpable when you live further away from that community than would be supportive, which is also the case for me, right? My family and my very close community is in Arizona, and you guys in California, and we are we're in Colorado, and I have lovely friends here, but you know, it that doesn't really help me with my mom in Arizona. Yeah, there's there's so many nuances that add layers of complexity to an already really demanding period of time with those two just the logistics. I was just when you were talking about that, Elisa. Oh my gosh, you know, like it's so important to do the drop-offs and the pickups and to have a warm body in the home for the child, but it's just it's never end.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah. And we so I I think what we're saying is that part of being in the sandwich generation is having competing values sometimes and having to choose between competing values and sometimes even having something that if you were to take a lie detector test, even and it would what is your top value, that you are not able to engage in the way that you want to as wholeheartedly and as physically present with something that is aligned with your top value, because you have a logistical and let's be honest, legal responsibility to take care of other things. And the community part, it's such a big thing, especially in midlife, because so many things change in friendships and relationships and finding community and meeting people where they're at as they move through. We've talked about this multiple times about relationships that change because of the transitions that we go through in midlife, where people are not able to show up the way that we want them to or need them to, and that can end up derailing friendships completely, that were very solid friendships. We also have difficulty in finding people. You know, we've talked about, Elisa, I remember one of our episodes that you talked about when you were a new mom in a new school and you thought that you would be welcomed in the way that you tend to welcome people when they're showing up into a place that you are established and they are new, but you did not receive that. There are a lot of things that we can't control. I have, I'm been fortunate that I have since deciding that we're staying in San Diego and I've made more of a commitment and had more just openness and receptivity to friendships. I do have friendships that I've made, like that are mom friends, I've made through my daughter and connections that bring us together that I think are really good and solid friendships. And at a lunch with several of them, we were talking about how all of us have friends that are also moms who have not had that same experience and for one reason or another have not been able to make friends. Some potentially because of just who they are and how they interact with people, but sometimes it's also your kids. I have a friend who is a lovely, wonderful person, one of the best people you could know as a friend. And her kids are on the spectrum and they are not kids who are engaging with others in a way that encourages additional engagement. And so there are things sometimes just with how our kids are that are not necessarily reflective of us and who we would be as a friend that make us not as accessible as a friend, or that the the entry point is not wide open.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Or sometimes, you know, the stages that our kids are going through. So I had really great connections with families and and moms when my son was younger through about middle elementary school. And then their interests change, you know, they go into different sports or whatever. And then we just don't have the opportunity to see each other in the way that we did. And there's literally not time. And because the relationship was newer, right? It was just a handful of years versus friendships that I've had for a decade or more. It just sadly falls to the back of and I have to take care of my sandwiches. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

And that's the thing is every relationship to build community, you have to have time to build community. And we're trying to build community at a time when we have very little time at all.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Yeah. I mean, it's I think Jen, we were joking about if you moved, would we would I see you more? When we were coming back to visit, right? And I think it's hard. It's like when we're in our day-to-day life. Like I do have a number of friends here. Some I haven't seen in a month, some I haven't seen in a year, some I haven't seen in two or three years. They only live about 30, 40 minutes from here. Right. But it's just every everyone gets so busy, and I think we don't prioritize it. Like that's what I've really realized too, is I haven't been prioritizing maintaining those relationships and friendships because it it is difficult and it does require like a lot of effort. And I think it's not like on both sides, right? It's not you're not seeing somebody because one person is being persistent and the other's not. It's just life gets busy. And I don't know. I think when we're in our day-to-day, like one of my friends moved moved away a few years ago and she comes back a few times a year. And she even said the other day, she's like, When I'm here, I I do so much more and see so many people. I never did that when I lived here. So it kind of forces it.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Well, we also are going through so many things that are sometimes just hard. And we will have these periods where we're not feeling ourselves for all of the reasons that we talked about in our hormone episodes, where or shit shifts in our neurotransmitters, just our body not feeling as well, or just a circumstantial situational, hard time that we don't have the time for surface conversations. So we start to see things drop off if we're not in that type of relationship that allows for the depth and allows for things to sometimes be crappy. And we also have some friendships that depend on that. And then if you're doing well, you then the relationship falls apart too, because it's depending on you being in a bad place. And so that I think impacts things a lot in midlife too, in this sandwich generation, when we're we're less available for just logistical reasons, our shifting interests of our responsibilities of the sandwich, and just the the periods that we go through that can impact friendships. It's it's it's tough because you know, there's certain people that are definitely, if I'm having a bad day, I'm calling this person, this person, and this person, and definitely not calling these other people if it's a bad day. But that community is so vital for the stuff that we were talking about, that the logistics of taking care of the people that we care about the most and staying as aligned with our values as we can and helping to massage the ways that our values are potentially in competition with each other. How do you how do you navigate all of those things? Because I remember reading a business book at one point that I don't even know if it's a business book, but it was a book that said something about there being life having four burners on it, like a stove with four burners. And those burners were your relationship, your work, your health, and your so relationships, business, health, and I think hobbies or personal interests were one of those things. And that you can't really have all of those burners going at one time because if it's like a propane tank or something, it's gonna run out of the gas too quickly. And so if you want them to be full strength and sustainable, you can't do all four. And yet to have a meaningful, fulfilling life, we need to have all four. And so, how do we make these choices? How do we juggle? Which ones do we turn on at which point in time so that we can not run out of fuel, but also not burn ourselves out? And then even within the relationships bucket, there's the primary relationship with your partner and your relationships with your friends and recognizing that you need to give time and attention to all of them because we cannot expect our partner to be everything to us. That's not fair to anybody. And nobody can be all things to one person either. And so then having the balance where you are making time for your friends, because I would say that I am fairly good at making sure that I make time for my friends. I've got enough that I don't always think that I see all of them as frequently as I want to or as I should. And so I'm always looking for ways that I can get multiple people together, which sometimes backfires too, honestly. But I'm always looking for getting multiple people together so I can have those that FaceTime with friends and not be taking away from time with my partner, my husband, because I do think sometimes he feels that I am so interested in making sure I'm maintaining my friendships with my female friends that he gets sort of shoved to the side and that he's feels less important, recognizing that I need to correct that because I do think I've failed him in some ways, that he is he has taken a back seat more often than I think he should. And he also, I know, is very grateful that I do have the friendships because there's some things he's just not good at and that he does not need to be present for or should not be my person that I go to for the things. And I think he also is very grateful that I've put that time and energy in. And see, this is again where we just spin, right? We spin and we spin and we spin because there's so many things, there's so many needs, there's so many demands. And how is it even possible for one human to contain them all?

SPEAKER_02 19:02

And then how do you fill your tank back up? So whether you're using four burners all at once or one at a time, like you're still depleting your reserves.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

And then we go back to our very last conversation of why am I not doing these things that I need to do for my health that I know I need to do, but I can't get myself to do them. Karen, help us.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

I'm just agreeing with everything you're saying. And when I'm also thinking about when my my sand, when my sandwich flares, no, when there's like a cute situation going on. The isolation that brings, it's and I'm trying to make sense of it as I'm thinking about it, because obviously you just laid out all the reasons why, Jen, right? Like having to rotate all of these burners, but during that, that acute period of time when somebody's sick or somebody has my, you know, the elder bread has some sort of acute situation, and almost inevitably there's something happening with the younger one, right? Simultaneously, and it pulls me away from my stove, and I can't tend to any of my burners. Or maybe they're all still on and my fuel is draining and I can't even be there, and now there's a fire there, but I'm tending, you know, to the highest priorities of the two, the two ends that need me. And then I feel so isolated, even from my own partner during those times, because it's just too much. I can't tend to that burner right now.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Much less than let's just be honest that some of those things that come up when, as you said, you're you're having a flare of the sandwich, um, which I think is a great way to put it because it is something that flares, that that there are times of greater intensity. Let's be honest that a lot of times those things that flare bring up a whole lot of our unresolved trauma and just things that we have to deal with that we normally just tuck down to the side and it doesn't really affect us, but then actively and acutely comes back so that we're not just dealing with a logistical situation and a stressor, but we're also dealing with the things that we didn't receive in childhood that we are trying to provide for our child, but and then also trying to navigate the mixed feelings that we might have with the person that we're then also trying to support and all of the things that come with that.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah. All during a time when you barely have enough bandwidth to tend to the flare, right? You barely have enough bandwidth to tend to whatever acute situation is happening in the sandwich. Now my trauma is getting activated. How am I supposed to work through that? But yet we do.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

But I think the way we work through it is because we voice it to our friends. Right. I think a lot of that, I mean, that to me is sometimes, yes. But I think that to me is like one of the most important things is is having those friendships. And I mean, we do that a lot, you guys, right? Even in text where we're like, okay, I've hit my limit, one, two, three, and four happened and gonna lose my mind. Just being able to like have that place to say it. And I think that is, you know, a big difference. Like Jen, you were talking about you and and your husband. Most a generalization, but most men don't have those deep friendships with other people where they can express that. And I think that is such a gift that we have as women that we we have those deep friendships. I mean, I was saying the other day, it's like in none of my relationships with men over the years, as close as we were, did I have the same depth of knowing and friendship that I have with my female friends. Right. And so I don't know. I think that that's really there has to be an outlet at some point. I think it's such a gift that we can be that for each other. Because that's like, I think that is part of like the how do we fill it up is just knowing that like we have those friends loving us that are kind of helping fill it up for us.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah. And now there's all this research coming out linking women's longevity with that community and the absence of that community in male relationships leading to shorter lifespans. So there's there's even a medical component here. And honestly, I think that's what I think communities as women are what allow us to be as amazing as we are. I mean, this this is what replenishes my superpowers, right? Of being able to hold so many things is that I'm not holding it a lot.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah. Well, Jen, you were even saying after your daughter's birthday party, right? All the moms where they were like, yep, let's get this cleaned up and taken care of so it didn't all fall on you to do, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Not every mom, but many moms and the moms I have the closest relationship with, it was it was stark. So there were a few dads who offered to help and that said, Do you need help with anything cleaning up? But they came and asked if we needed anything. There was one dad who was very early and just volunteered and carried some stuff in. So I was very grateful for that. And it was talking to my husband that that happened, right? And so I don't know if he asked and said, Do you need any help? And he said, Sure, can you carry this? But the moms, especially the moms that I am the closest to, just did things. They didn't ask. All they did was they said, Is this yours or does this belong here? And then they put stuff into a wagon that my friend had brought because I didn't think to bring a wagon for some reason. Right. And so she happened to have a wagon in her car. So she brought it in, and everybody else, they just jumped to and were stuffing things in the wagon. And just, is this yours or is it not? Is this staying here or is this going? That was it. And then they they jumped too. And the the guys who came and asked or asked if they they could help, all I had to say was no. And they're like, okay, and they were off on their own. And I mean, granted, I had the help that I needed, but still, there's a very big difference in that. And part of it is the connected knowing that we've talked about before, I believe, from the book Burnout. I think in a very early episode we talked about this, but that was a concept that was really brought forward in in burnout and how vital it is to work through burnout is to have people that you can talk to about the thing that you are experiencing. And so that they can see it if it's if you're on the precipice of it, that you don't see it yourself yet. And that's also one of the things that we do in our relationship and our conversations that happen off the podcast is that Karen, when you are having a sandwich flare, Elisa, when you're having a sandwich flare, and I say the two of you because you have had the most flaring sandwiches lately, uh, then my sandwich is not currently flaring. It's gonna be the name of our band, right? The flaring sandwich. Man, band names get so much less interesting as you get older.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

I really do.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

God. Okay, I can do this. I'm just gonna give you a moment. The flaring sandwiches, too many jokes.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

But in your flaring sandwiches that you have had so much of recently, that we can each start to see if we're having a moment where we're like less stop it. Our sandwiches are less on fire, that we can pause and say, Hey, I'm seeing something happening right now. What's going on? And so sometimes we can even bring it to each other's attention and jump in to either put the freaking pizza boxes in the back of the car or load up the gift bags or whatever it happens to be, or just say, Hey, talk, talk. What is happening? And we come with that curiosity. And yes, some we have to ask, especially since we are long distance with you, especially, Karen. But even Elise and I, we don't live like right next door to each other. So I can't just bring her dinner. It's a anyway, that we can we sometimes have to say, how can I support you now? What does this look like? Would this be helpful? Yada, yada, yada, instead of just jumping in and carrying the bags to the car. And being able to recognize when it's happening is so vital. And having the experience ourselves is what allows that. You know, every single person that I thanked over the weekend, I was like, you know, oh my gosh, thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you did this. And I'm like, yeah, we, every single one said, yes, we've uh we've been there. We so I know, I know what it's like to be the one who is the host and having to navigate all of the things and all of the people. And you by the time you get to the end of the party, you're burned out, like you're so tired that they were just, yeah, we know. So it's it's connected knowing every month knows, yeah, is just so vital for so many things, too, when it comes to that midlife. And so the community, the connected knowing, the flexibility and understanding that there's just so many things that are going to change through the process of getting to the other side where we get to be the bread again. We get to be the bread on fire, apparently, with the flaming sandwiches.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I'd rather just be the bread not on fire, but you know, we're gonna be on fire at some point.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

It's gonna, I mean, it's it's we're not allowed to be on fire right now, it feels like, even though we are so on fire. Often we're like sizzling embers constantly.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

That's what puts us, I mean, that's what puts us at like the bottom of our totem pole, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Is that the bottom bottom of that U-shaped curve where the least happy that we will ever be in our lives?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Well, and and that puts us, I think, just in terms of prioritizing ourselves at these because everything else feels so much bigger. God, and there was this one, I wish I had saved it. Somebody like citing the study that like the unhappiest age is 47. Oh awesome. And I all I'm thinking is, yes, I turn 48 in August.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

And I turned 47 in July. I'm 46 in May, you guys. This is not good. I'll let you know from the other side.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Well, Elisa, I mean, I hope that that's the case because that that would track for your little year that you sure would. And you know what? That study that came out about like the most rapid aging being at 44 and 60. I mean, that that tracks too.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Um yeah, I feel like 10 years in the last four. Honestly. Well, I mean, Jen, we are over a Tiever, so maybe we've already hit it.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Let's hope for that. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

But I do look, I do think this is a really, it's just a really difficult time. And this is why we created this and why we're all sitting here talking, is because it's not unique to the three of us. Everyone is going through this. I don't care if you have kids or you don't have kids, or if you have parents with ailments or not. Like this is a time where there's so much happening within us, and we are pulled in a lot of different directions, whether it's parents or children or work or friends. There, there's there's so much going on. And there's so much going on within us that it's hard to feel like we have the bandwidth to even think about it. And I think that it's part of like the, you know, we were talking about last time too, with it's like, I don't want to say the shutdown, but I think that is what part of like makes us pause, not in a sacred way, um, is because we don't have the bandwidth to deal with one more thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Even if it's a good thing sometimes. I think it's one of the things that we really face in midlife and being this the sandwich generation is the reconciliation with having been told that we need to be selfless for our whole lives and then recognizing this competing place where we still want to be selfless for the people that we love so much. And we want, even at a party, we want nobody else to have to work. We want them to just be able to sit back and enjoy and for us to do all the work, even though it's a party to celebrate our child or us or whatever, that we expect that we still do all the work and we do all the struggle and suffer for other people. So we've got that that's so long-standing competing with our bodies, showing up in ways that remind us that we do, in fact, have a self and that we that selflessness is complete bullshit because we do have a self, we are allowed to have a self, and we reach a place with what's happening in our physical body sometimes that we just have to say, sorry, I am going to let you down because I cannot do this. And sometimes we just reach a breaking point in our thinking too, our thinking and our emotions or whatever that's just nope, nope, I've reached my point. I'm done. I'm not gonna continue to carry this so that you don't have to carry something.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

But so what you part of what you just said is like, I don't know, it just it's so profound and so messed up that taking care of ourselves lets somebody else down.

unknown 32:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

We've created so many relationships throughout our lives that are dependent on our selflessness.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yeah, they're used to it, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:34

It doesn't even have to it doesn't even have to make it a malicious thing. They're used to that dynamic, that dance. And when we change the dance moves, it creates instability. But that can become the new dance move. We can retrain those relationships. And if the relationships are not retrainable, then that's a different conversation.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Yeah. So I guess the answer is there really is no answer. This is just part of life. And we can lean in to the blessings and lessons that come with it in recognizing the importance of community and really helping us see what our values are because when they get challenged or when they are start to compete with each other, it makes it a lot more clear for us, which is a really great thing because it can help direct so many more decisions that we make in our future. So there's there are some really great benefits that come from being in this sandwich generation, even as hard as it is. So once we get past this bottom of the U-shaped curve where we're apparently all in the unhappiest time of our lives, then there's just, I feel like there's really, really, really good things coming from the experience. So there I am being my toxic optimist, perhaps. But I think ultimately I think it's necessary right now. I mean, I think how else do you get through it?

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yeah. I think it I really appreciated the highlighting of the community aspect of it. Even though obviously we have so much appreciation for this platform and our relationships. It's it's just really helpful to have that reiterated that when your sandwich is flaring, look for your community. The flaring sandwiches featuring Stardust.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Flaring sandwiches featuring stardust. You know, that's encompasses it pretty much. That's it. Guys, I have like the costumes, the costumes that would be what we would wear for our performances. And we would be so confusing to so many people because we would have our rage ballads, because they would be rage ballads, right? And then also just our outright like dopamine fueled, like heavy-hitting dance music. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Well, at least now we all have a second career we can fall back on. So I feel good about that.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Yeah, I think I'll be the drummer and the backup dancer. Somehow I'll figure out how to do both of them.

unknown 35:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

I'll figure it out. I'll do all the things.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

It'll give us I appreciate Elisa you bringing back Stardust because that's ultimately what we have to remember when we're dealing with those times that it's all on fire. And that in the end, we need to make the decision that is most connected to our values and what will matter to us as a person. Because all of the people that we might be letting down while we tend to the things that really actually matter to us in this moment are not gonna matter at all in the entire trajectory of human history. And so we do have to choose those things that really matter to us right now. Agreed. All right. Do we leave it there? Yeah, leave it there.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

All right. Love you guys. Love you. Bye bye. If our messy is your kind of messy, we'd love for you to rate, review, and follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

We'd also love to know what's on your mind. If you were to join us, what would we be talking about? Email us at messy midlifepodcast at gmail.com or message us on Instagram or TikTok.