An Emotional Final Episode Before She Arrives

This episode is a little different from our usual ones.

With our baby about to arrive, we wanted to take a moment to sit down and talk very candidly about how we’re feeling right now. The excitement, the nerves, the uncertainty, and the reality that life as we know it is about to change in a big way. Please note that we recorded this episode a few weeks ago, but planned to release it right around her due date.

We’ve spent a lot of time on this podcast talking about fitness, health, and evidence-based topics, but this felt like an important moment to share something more personal. Not because we have all the answers, but because we wanted to let you in on where we’re at before stepping into this next chapter.

In this episode, we talk about:
- What this transition into parenthood feels like for us
- The mix of emotions that comes with such a big life change
- How we’re thinking about what comes next
- Why we felt it was important to record this before she arrives

If you’ve been listening to the podcast, thank you for being here. It genuinely means a lot to us, and we don’t take that for granted.

This episode might mark the beginning of a hiatus for us. If that happens, we are not sure how long it will last, but wanted to let you know in advance.

Thank you for all of your support. 

--

If you would like monthly lifting workouts, you can join the Momentum by Sohee fitness app. http://momentumbysohee.com

If you are interested in fat loss science, you can purchase Ben's best-selling comprehensive fat loss book, Everything Fat Loss. http://geni.us/EverythingFatLoss

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

By the time you listen to this, it is quite possible that we have had our first baby.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

I was already tearing up before you opened your mouth.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

When we talked about this episode a couple of days ago, so he started choking up. As soon as I told her what I wanted to start the episode with.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Well, as of this recording, we are a smidge over a month away from her due date. So we're nearing the end.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I thought it would be a good idea to record one episode now because on the possibility that she comes early, we I mean, firstly, we might have a podcast break. It's unlikely that if she is born on a Monday, we're going to be recording on a Tuesday or a Wednesday, you know? So possible that we'll have a podcast break, but also a good opportunity to talk about the future. And this can be kind of like a time capsule episode. Yeah. We can come back and revisit in a year or so.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

I think that'll be really fun and probably quite humbling to be like, oh, we thought things were going to be like this, and then you realize actually not as straightforward as we thought it was gonna be, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah. This is going to be our least planned episode ever. We don't know what we're going to say. We have a list of short questions, a short list of questions rather that we want to talk about, but we haven't prepped anything. We don't know what the answers are. We're just going off the phone.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

That's the fun of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

So how how do you feel? You first. We're both going to become parents, but I think it is right for everyone to recognize that it's a bigger deal for the woman. You are going through a lot more than I am. And I think you should go first.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I mean, as far as pregnancy, how do I feel?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

You can answer from whatever direction you would like.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

I feel many simultaneous things. I feel physically I'm tired. I'm uncomfortable. I'm achy. You know all of these things. You get to hear all about my symptoms all day long. I feel like every day you wake you wake up and I I don't know what new symptom is gonna pop up or how long it's gonna last. For example, a a recent symptom that I've had this week is carpal tunnel. And that was new. It's affecting my sleep because I'll wake up multiple times throughout the night with tingly, throbbing arm pain. Uh my hands and swarm forearms are way more swollen, and even especially in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning, I find that even trying to, what is this motion, like make a claw with my hands is actually quite painful in the mornings.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Uh you have told me a couple of times that various parts of you are swollen, and I always say I can't notice. Your hands today, when you told me they were swollen, I could notice because you have very small hands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

But your fingers and my you normally quite visible veins had basically disappeared this morning. Um, and so anyway, so and obviously the third trimester fatigue is hitting me very, very hard.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

So he at the moment is probably in bed sometimes 11 hours.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Sometimes 13 hours to get like nine, maybe ten broken hours of very broken sleep. And that's it sounds like a lot, and it is. Unfortunately, that's I feel like that's how much I need nowadays to feel normal. Normal, I put it in quotes. Which, you know, everyone's different, but it's a couple of weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I didn't even talk about this on social media, maybe I will before this episode comes out. But I got up early and r ran an 8K race, and someone recognized me and said, Is your wife going to be here today? And I said, I told her not to come, but I know she's very supportive, and she might set her alarm early to come and be at the finish line when I finish. And because she set her alarm early, the moment we got home, you're like, I need a nap. Yeah, straight back to bed. So I think it's important. I think it's important that you do your sleep.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

So physically, obviously uncomfortable. Uh, I would say that nothing medically serious. So by and large, I would still say I'm having an uneventful pregnancy, which people obviously mean in a good way. Like uh, and so that's that's that pregnancy. I I feel like by default on average is an uncomfortable experience, physically uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Um I know some people say that they enjoyed pregnancy.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Right. That's I feel like that's not the norm though.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Would you say that you enjoy pregnancy?

SPEAKER_00 4:45

I think that there are bits of it that I do enjoy. For example, I love I already know. I love that she's always with me. Always. No matter where I'm going. I think it's really cute, and I'm kind of sad for I'm sad for when she is born that you know I won't get to be with her all the time anymore. So that's that. Uh mentally, I am I feel like I'm kinda waiting for her to make an appearance, waiting to meet her. I also simultaneously feel a little bit overwhelmed with all the stuff that I'm hoping to get done before she's here. For example, finishing organizing her nursery. We have, we were we're so fortunate to have received so many hand-me-down clothes from friends and family, which is actually what we asked for. We I actually said I would prefer hand-me-downs. I don't really see the need to buy her so many new brand new clothes, especially with how fast she's gonna grow as a baby.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

I was a pretty naked kid and genetically, I don't know if she follows after me, but I don't have much.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

You know, there's a lot to want to organize and put together. Obviously, if she ends up coming early, we have all the necessary stuff and it'll it'll be fine, it'll work out. But I think I would feel a little bit more settled if we were able to get those things done. So I have obviously you know you know me, I have a shared note between you and me of the stuff I want us to get done week by week in the next five, six weeks leading up to her arrival. And emotionally, uh I'm kind of fragile in not a bad way. I think I'm very extra soppy, probably. Obviously, hormones, etc.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

But I love it when you get soppy. I love it when you get soppy, especially Especi about pregnancy because you get reflective, you get sentimental about things. So, like just this morning I came downstairs. Was it this morning? Was it yesterday morning? And you were just crying at something on your phone, and you said I might get the words wrong. You said my future looks really bright.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

I see my future and it's so bright. It was a clip of a woman had posted clips of her and her toddler girl, and they were doing, you know, life together and wearing matching headbands and She said, What do you want to be when you grow up? And then the answer was a mother, and it was just her obviously loving being a mom and you were a mess. Oh my gosh. Yeah, because I can obviously now that I'm actually pregnant and nearing the finish line, it feels like that is in my very near future. So yeah, I'm really I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

So you said a short while ago that obviously she might come early, and that's part of the reason we need to do this episode now, because if she does come early and we haven't done this episode and we suddenly go silent for a while, everyone will wonder what's going on. Yeah. So um we need we need to get this out there. But by the time we release this, if we release it in say a couple of weeks, still only gonna be two or three weeks. I say two or three weeks, I know when the due date is, but there's a possibility our consultant, or so he's consultant rather, has said that it's possible that she'll be induced a week early. Hence being a little bit more than a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Or she might decide to come early on her own, which is entirely possible. How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Dad when my family have asked me this, when my friends have asked me this, I think the only thing that I really know how to say is I thought I would be terrified. I thought I'd be terrified for my whole life. If I ever had the idea that someone I was dating found out they were pregnant, the idea of it terrified me. The idea of being a father terrified me. And I think it entirely stemmed from I just don't think I'm ready to be the father that I would like to be if I'm ever going to be a father. As you know, I have very high standards for things and I am a a perfectionist about things. And to me, there is no important there is nothing more important than being a parent. I don't think there is anything more uh valuable you can do in your life. I I know that sounds cliche and I know people could come up with extreme examples like donating billions to cancer charities or whatever, like I get that. I just think being a parent is so amazing, and I think it's such a privilege and a privilege that not everyone gets to enjoy, even if they want to sometimes, and and I respect the gravitas of the situation that we're going through. And I always thought I would be terrified, and I don't feel terrified. And I think I think there are two reasons I don't feel terrified. One, I feel like I'm more ready than I've ever been. I don't think I'm as ready as I could be. I think uh financially I could be more stable, I think health-wise I could probably be better, but compared to any other point in my life, I'm as as ready as I'm ever gonna be, and given that I'm getting old, I don't think I'm going to get more ready as as time passes. But the biggest reason I think that I'm excited is because I cannot wait to see you be a mum. I've seen I've seen the way you talk about it. I've seen the facial expressions you make when we're talking about it. I see how choked up you get when you think about it. I see the little tears that you shed nearly every day when you say things like, I can't wait to meet our girl, or I can't wait for us to walk holding her hand, walking along the street, hearing her yapping away like her mum. And hearing you say things like that makes me so excited because I feel like you were born to do this. I don't think you know that. And I never thought that when we first started dating.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

I never heard you say that.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

But the last couple of years, the last year and a half, maybe when you became an aunt, and the way that you have changed how you've talked about kids. I I see it now. I see it. I see that you do the things that your mum does for you. I see the way you spend time in the kitchen and you fussing over people and When do you feel like you felt ready?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Because we talked about this in a prior episode. It wasn't until late 2024, the very end of 2024, when you were like, okay, I'm happy for us to start trying.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

I think being honest, I feel like you held my hand to cross the finish line on that. I think we went from both being kind of I wouldn't say ambivalent but unsure about having children to you being more more certain that that you wanted kids. And I think you being more certain in some ways also kind of reassured me. Like, I don't think anyone is ever going to be a perfect parent. There will always be little aspects of your life that could be better. You could have a job you enjoy more, or you could have more free time or whatever it is. But I think seeing how ready you were becoming made me think, I think we can do this, and I think we can do it really well. And I might not be 100% ready as as I could be if I, you know, could click my fingers or rubber magic lamp or whatever. But I think between us I think we can do a really good job. And I think that helped. I think me I I think I trust you so much that that's kind of made me feel safer about our joint competency. You you've brought the average of the relationship brought the average of the relationship up, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

The way I think of it I I think is that I feel like I have done and accomplished so many difficult things, and we have also together done difficult things that maybe at one point, like my PhD, for example, I didn't think that I had what it takes to to follow through, and I did. And even things like training for it and finishing a marathon, that's hard too. And I'm like, I feel like I can do those things, and especially with the amount of love we already feel for our baby girl who's not even born yet, the desire is there, I think we we'll be we'll be capable, we have the resources, we have help, you know. So I think, yes, it will be hard, I know that, but I also think we have what it takes to figure it out and give her a very happy life.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Is there anything that you're scared of?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Not in terms of being a bad parent per se.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I I don't feel like I'm scared of that either.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

No, I think, and I'm not sure if scared is the right word. I don't want to lose myself. And I want to be careful with very with my wording because I know that for some people being a parent, being a mom is their whole end game. It's the whole like that's their dream job, and there's nothing else that matters to them in life, and I love that for them. But I also, and who knows, maybe I'll change my maybe once I become a parent, I'll also be like that. But as of now, I really want to still have my own interests, my own hobbies. I would like to keep my career going. So I feel like I don't want my full identity to become I'm a mom and nothing else.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

This someone we know said something very recently, which I know you remember, and we don't need to say the name of the person, but they said something that I hadn't really thought about, and they said the moment my daughter was born, people in the hospital stopped calling me by my own name, and it felt like she felt like it was like so-and-so's mom. Yeah, yeah, and in some ways it kind of makes sense if you have a baby that you're looking after, you identify the parent according to the baby that you're caring for if you're medical staff. But hearing her say that she felt like she lost a little bit of her identity because people stopped calling her by her name, and also I think with things like socializing, when you have a child, it's normal for things to change and you perhaps socialize less with some people and you know your social plans look different. And I understand why some parents lose part of their identity. I think.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Personally, I don't think it would bother me if someone were to say, Oh, you're so-and-so's mom, or that's how they addressed me in the same way that if someone if we you say, Oh, this is my wife, I'm not gonna be like, I am more than only your wife. Like those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Someone on social media actually got angry with me because I made a video saying something about my wife, and she's like, She's got a name, like yeah, she's not just your wife. And I was like, No, that is literally how we like talking.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah. So that it's not the what are you what are people gonna refer to me as that bothers me. It's it's the how how am I gonna perceive myself and how do I get to spend my time? Because let's say, let's say, and and and and who knows if I actually do this, let's say sometime after the baby's born, several months later, I'm like, oh, I would love to get back into marathon training. Am I gonna I have to take time for myself to do that? Or am I gonna be like, oh, I can't afford I can't, I can't be away from the baby at all ever, so I'm not even gonna bother doing anything for myself. And if I were to, let's say, neglect all this all the other interests of mine that previously brought me a lot of joy, that's that's what would actually make me more sad.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Yeah. I think that's one of those things that you will never know until you get to that bridge. That's that's how I feel about it because I I have the same concerns and the same, yeah. I think concerns is a fair word. I I'm nervous about what the next chapter of our life looks like because every time there's a big change in life, you have pros and cons. And this is obviously a new chapter that we have zero experience of. We have no idea what we're going into, and I don't think you know what it's like to be a parent until that happens. I asked, I think, like four or five people I know when it felt real because people messaged me saying, uh-uh, how do you feel, baby? Do you soon like you feeling alright? And I said, out of interest, when did you feel like oh wow, this is happening? And every single one of them said, Not until after they were born. One person said, when I saw them in the hospital, I think one person said when I held them in the hospital, one person said not until we left the hospital and put them in the car, and you're like, Oh wow, we've got like a thing now, and then someone else said, Not until they got home. I think that was my sister, she said we got home, and she said she looked at her husband, and they were like, Holy fuck, what do we do? And I don't think you it's not that I'm going into this kind of uninformed and I have no idea what's going to happen. It's more that I respect how big this life chapter is. I prefer to think there is no way that I can anticipate how I'm gonna feel. I know it will be amazing, I know it'll be hard, but I don't think you know how amazing it will be until you see your child for the first time. I don't think you know how amazing it will be until they grasp your finger for the first time, or you have her head on your chest in the hospital. I don't think you can ever be prepared for how many emotions you will feel during that time. And yeah, I'm I'm I'm unsure. I don't know how I'm going to feel, but I'm excited for it.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

And I I think it's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Never thought I would say that, or I've never been in a position where I would have said that.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

What do you think will be the hardest?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

For me or for you or for us. I think I feel like I've got three different answers.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Okay, for you.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

For me, one thing that's specific to me is as you know, I have a very kind of obsessive perfectionistic personality. And one of the things that I think intertwines with that is I'm a I'm a man of routine. I like a routine, I like getting up, working first thing in the morning, exercising two or three hours after that. I like having a schedule and I like repeating that schedule, even when I'm on holiday, I like doing the same thing. And almost everyone I know has said that one of the hardest things about being a parent is the fact that everything changes, you don't get your own time like you did before, you don't get to be as picky about your own time. Your time isn't your time, it's their time. One of my friends said, You can't even go to the toilet without your kid following you in and knocking on the door and things like that. And I think I will find that hard. I think I will find it hard. I've never been someone that's very good with adapting, I don't think. So I think I will find that difficult. I think you especially will find sleep difficult.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yes, I already know. That's that is one of my main concerns, actually, especially with knowing how much sleep impacts my mood, my productivity, my energy, everything, absolutely everything.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Obviously, everyone is affected by sleep deprivation to some degree. Uh I feel like I cope better than you do. Yes, I would agree. And you tend to need more sleep than I do. So my average sleep if I looked to Lassie is probably like seven and a half hours. Whereas if you got seven and a half hours sleep, you would wake up.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Two nights in a row, I would be like, I feel terrible.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah, so I think I think that'd be difficult for you. I think for us, one of the things that I mean, there's still still Coming from a place of me. I am still answering this on our behalf. Like you might have different concerns. One of my biggest concerns about having kids ever, which I've mentioned on a previous episode, is something that I feel like I've learned from other parents that I know, which is how difficult it is to show up for the other person because all of a sudden you are a parent. You are sometimes not as much of a wife or a husband as your child's needs are always going to come first. There is this thing that literally depends on you for life, but without you, they would not survive. And you are looking after them, and all of your mental bandwidth is thinking about them all the time to some degree. And I think it is likely to be harder to show up for the other person. And we have obviously we're in a kind of very privileged position. We both work from home, we have plenty of time on our hands to adjust our routines and stuff. So if we want to spend more time snuggling in bed or we want a lazy weekend or whatever, we can kind of do whatever we want. And I think it'll be hard not having as much time for each other without distractions. But that's something that I have always been nervous about because I've seen how it affects other people. In fact, someone I know, I won't say their name just in case it's a bit personal, but they said that it was a solid couple of years before they went out on a date night with their husband/slash wife. Yeah. And that would be really hard for us. I know that's not the same with everyone. Some people get back to their regular schedule sooner. But I think that would be hard.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah. I think I will struggle with finding a new normal in a way that feels feels I'm not gonna say balance because I feel like you're not gonna have balance as a parent, or at least not in the way that you're used to having, in a way that feels manageable and happy for the parent, for me, for you. And we know several couples who like they own their own small businesses, they do similar things as us work-wise, and it kind of obviously it varies depending on the person, but we're seeing a lot of mmm, they're not able to make a lot of time for themselves, they're not able to, they're devoting a fraction of the time that they're used to spending on their business and on their careers and things like that. And kind of similar to what I was saying before, I think that I would really struggle with that, especially given how ambitious I've been with my career for so many years and how much I enjoy my career too. Um, but again, who knows? I might, once the baby comes, I might be like, all of a sudden that's less important to me.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah, like I know we I know we've talked about this, but for the benefit of everyone else listening, one of the things that w one of our closest friends, I remember her saying to me, I can't remember if you were there as well, that business and work in general slowed down for her because the number of hours she could devote to it was tiny compared to what she did before. And I asked how she felt about it, and of course she said it's not ideal, yeah, and I'm earning less money, but I'm also spending more time with our daughter, and to me that is a priority at the moment, and I think that was quite a nice way to look at it because obviously things change, and you might spend less time on things that you care about now, it might be your career, it might be running, it might be exercise for me or whatever, but it will be replaced by this amazing, hopefully amazing.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Yeah, and I think what one thing we have to accept is that we cannot do it all and we cannot have it all, and there's always gonna be trade-offs we have to make. For example, I know someone who is a small business owner like me, and sh she hired a sitter very, very early on who came over like five days a week, six hours a day, and she was able to keep up a lot of her normal work hours when her baby was a couple months old. But obviously the trade-off was then she's not spending as much time with her child. So there's that, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

This is one of those things that I would say I wouldn't say I wouldn't say we've disagreed on, as in me and you, but we have disagreed with other people's perspectives on this. One of the things how I feel about that is if we're in a fortunate enough position where we could we could pay and afford for someone to come over and let's say babysit or nanny or whatever verb you use for three or four days a week. If that means that we can get more work done and we can earn more money and we can be more financially stable, that is obviously a huge pro, especially in America where things like healthcare is expensive and education can be really expensive, um, or like higher education. But then the flip side is you are choosing to spend less time with your child. Right. And I don't know, I don't know how I feel about that. I I know that some people have very strongly said I think it's better for you to keep your careers afloat rather than going full-time into parenting or spending a lot of time there. But I don't know, I think it'd be really hard to know that your child is spending so many hours with essentially a stranger to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

I don't think that there's a right or wrong way to do it. I think it's all about what makes you feel the most fulfilled and what makes you feel the happiest and what what works the best for your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Is there anything else that scares you?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Childbirth, but that's not related to parenthood, so we don't have to elaborate on that. But you know, I well let me say this.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Wait, we were in we were in like a uh I can't remember what's the class name called?

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Childbirth prep class.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

But we've we've done different classes.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I didn't know how newborn care class?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

It's like yeah, we we've had a couple of newborn classes and then we've had like a uh here's what you do after the child is born class. So we at one point was like, does it hurt?

SPEAKER_00 28:19

No, I said what's the most painful part, or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

You you said were in the class that we were in, you said something like does it hurt? And the teacher was like, Well, I Uh it does.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

I know it hurts. You already knew the answer, but there was just something But I was like, What's more painful, the contractions or the labor, or the actual baby coming out? And obviously, from what I've learned since then is that it really did very the it varies depending on the individual. And some people were like, neither, it was the Pitocin, uh, or I had nausea the whole way through, that the labor was a breeze compared to the whole pregnancy.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Basically, what I will say is that I know, I know I'm gonna make it through. I've hired a doula for almost the sole purpose of helping me cope with my fear of childbirth. So I will report back after.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

I don't feel like women get enough appreciation for how difficult childbirth is, but also I don't think they get enough appreciation for how difficult pregnancy is. Like you said in an earlier episode when we did your first trimester recap, you said I felt bamboozled because no one has warned me for how difficult pregnancy can be, the number of symptoms that you got, but also you essentially just felt like shit every day. You're feeling sick every day. Oh, horrible, horrible, gagging while you're eating food, exhausted all the time. And I think if you were unaware of how difficult pregnancy is, there is obviously a greater likelihood that men are even less aware of how difficult pregnancy is. And I think seeing you going through it, because I've never lived with someone who's been pregnant before. My sister was pregnant, but we didn't live together. I was the youngest of my siblings. I think seeing you going through it has given me an extra respect for how hard it is.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah. And obviously, everyone's pregnancy experience is going to be different, but I know for a fact, but I've seen it said online, I've said it's been said to me so many times is oh, let's not tell them the truth about how hard pregnancy can be, because we don't want to scare them. We don't want to scare women from wanting to get pregnant in the future. And I don't like that to me, that comes across very manipulative.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

And oh, icon you into getting pregnant because I made you think that it was it was gonna be a great experience. And then, of course, I know um the other side of that too is some women legitimately forget how bad it was after the fact. There's that too.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

I don't know if I've asked you this yet. What are you most excited for?

SPEAKER_00 30:53

So many things. Her laugh being the go-to person, me and you in her life for comfort because I can think back as when I was a toddler or a child, I can think back to how I sought out my own parents as my you know, my my comfort people, and how even their smell, you know, you like you snuggle their neck or whatever, you can they have a distinct smell and it would bring you so much c peace. And I think it's some there's something really cute about we're gonna be that for another human being. Um, I'm excited to see what similarities we have, not in not only in terms of like physical resemblance, looks and whatnot, but also personality traits and things like that. What are they gonna pick up from us and what is she gonna learn? And um I've always I've also said to you, I think it'd be really cute to teach her some of our inside jokes. Uh all of it. Yeah. What about you?

SPEAKER_01 31:58

I am most excited. This this sounds silly, but I genuinely mean it like this. I'm so excited to meet a mini version of you. I've seen photos of you as a kid, I've seen videos of you as a kid, I've seen what your niece is like, and I've also seen a 3D scan where it looks like she's going to look more like you than look like me. But I think seeing videos of you as a kid and seeing how cute you were, but also there are so many mannerisms that you have now that I can I can see how they would carry across to a child. Like I'm more stoic, and it's quite hard to imagine a child being stoic, but you have a really infectious laugh. Someone on like literally today, I think on Spotify comments or YouTube comments said so he has a really infectious laugh. And one of my favourite things about you is how infectious your laugh is. I remember you laughing really early into our relationship in another room, and I remember your dad saying, Her laugh is so loud. And I have a really big thing that I would hate for you to ever feel self-conscious about how loud your laugh is, because to me that's the thing that I love about it. It's very rare for a lot of adults to laugh like belly laugh. And I love your laugh, I love how contagious your smile is, I love how what's the right word? How weird you are. I don't think it will fully come across. Well, I know it won't fully come across on the podcast, but the way you act at home. I can just I love the idea of seeing a daughter doing the things that you do, randomly dancing, doing a crab walk out of the shower, suddenly yelling random words just because they popped into your head, or singing one line of a song the moment you wake up, like all of these kind of weird quirks that you have that I love about you. I love the idea that she would have those.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

It's interesting that you say um you've you you've said throughout the whole printing C she's gonna be a mini version of me when obviously she's also gonna be a mini version of you.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah. I don't really think of it like that. May maybe because it's a daughter, maybe if we were having a son, it would be easy it would be easier for me to relate to that.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

But that also doesn't I know it sounds weird, maybe it's self-deprecating, it doesn't excite me as much. I don't look at I don't look at myself, I don't look at the reflection of myself in the mirror, but as a person as fondly as I look at at you. So the idea that we have a little version of you is the thing that melts.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Well we'll find out soon, and I know the 3D scan was really interesting, and I do agree that she looks a lot like me in the 3D scan, but I'm also curious to see what her hair color is gonna be like, what her eye colour is gonna be like, all that stuff. Yeah. So it's pretty well that we'll find out in about a month.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

One question that we need to navigate, and navigating it on the podcast feels like a pertinent place to do so, is how much do you want to share online?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

That is a conversation that we still need to have.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Well, let's have it right now.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

I am okay, hmm.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I mean, I think it makes sense if we're gonna have a conversation, we may as well. This is what the podcast is about.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

I mean, we have colleagues who will show their baby up to a certain age until they're like one or two. And I've seen one of them, their argument, their reasoning is well, baby's faces are so non-like unique until they're hit like toddler age or so, and then after that, their features become a lot more distinguishable, and after that, they don't feel comfortable sharing, you know, their child's face online. Uh, and there we have colleagues who share their their kids everything, but they don't share their names. And we have colleagues who share everything, their names, their their faces, their everything. And so obviously, we see the whole gamut of parental choices on social media. I feel like, for example, imagine if we sent our child to school one day and she comes home and says, Oh, this lady grabbed my arm because she recognized me from your Instagram mom and it made me really uncomfortable. Or something something, you know, is that something that we would be okay with?

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yeah. So I actually hadn't thought about that specific scenario until you said that. So I would describe myself as uh very, very, very occasionally recognized. If I if we travel somewhere, I get recognized, I would say at least once in every country that we're in, but rarely multiple times, and very rarely multiple times per day, unless maybe I'm in London, for example. But it is very common that we will be somewhere, like Dubai Airport, a taxi in Mexico, a beach club in Spain, like some random places where people have come over to me and been like, I really I follow you on Instagram, I love your stuff. Obviously, I love that. This isn't about that. I love that. I think it's a real privilege and a testament to the power of social media. But when it comes to your child, you don't want to accidentally make your child semi-famous, and without going into details, we have seen cases on social media where children have become famous for not great reasons, reasons that we would not be happy with.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Right. There are a lot of creeps online. Yeah, I've seen You never know why they're saving your child's.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Like a bikini or a crop top are being saved tens of thousands of times. And if you go through the comments, you see uh a few comments that are like suggestive, not even like gross, yeah. Rarely, but like there will be a few in videos like that, and when you correlate those kind of online comments and the number of saves and the number of shares, you're like, I feel like their child is being exposed to something dangerous here and something creepy, and that obviously makes me nervous. I would love, I would love to share loads about our daughter's life because she is going to be the most important thing to both of us. I I am in I think I'm the most important thing in your life at the moment. You have said that to me. But when our daughter's born, I won't be, and I'm okay with that. That's I think how it should be. And when something is so important to you, it's you want to share it the same way that when we got a new dog, we posted about him online because it was exciting to us. I would love to share loads about our daughter, but you never have control over who sees it. Yeah, it's different. Like if you're listening to this podcast and you're 35 minutes in or whatever we are now, you are in a very small percentage of our followers who care enough to go into this detail. But when you post a photo on Instagram, that is for strangers to see. And yeah, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know where the line is, but I know there is a line for both of us where we wouldn't be prepared to do that. Yeah. We are definitely not, it would be amazing to make our daughter famous because she could pay the bills.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Oh, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Like we could we could be in a position where we do that. It's easy to make at least a little bit of money on social media if you have viral videos. And viral videos with children is actually quite easy to do if you're doing funny things.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Right, especially because they're so cute and whatever.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, but that's just not our jam.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah, I legitimately don't know if I want to share her full name. We've already decided on her name. I don't know if I want to share that. I don't know if I want to show her face as a baby, or will say, okay, we can show her face as a baby until she turns one or or something. I don't know. I don't know. But I obvious, you know, I've seen other creators where they'll show they won't show their baby's face, but they'll show their back of the baby or like part, you know, the hand, the foot. And I feel like that's kind of a nice compromise personally to respect the baby's privacy and and to protect them and whatnot. So I'm kind of leaning towards that currently, but we have a little bit of time.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

I I think in the same way that I talk about things very personally on my email list, more so than I do on like Instagram or TikTok. Yeah. And we have conversations on the podcast that we don't have on Instagram. I would love to be able to post more about our child to a group of individuals that you feel close enough that you could share the exciting moments. But I don't know if there's a way to navigate that. If anyone's listening to this and they are actually intelligent on this topic, I would actually love to hear it because occasionally people will send messages like, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. But I don't actually know from a an objective perspective what the risks are of sharing your child's name, for example. I understand face and images, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

I don't know. We'll see, we'll keep talking about it. It's a hard conversation, but I definitely don't I don't have any interest in monetizing off her or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

There are some I already have thought of videos that I'm like I would love to make just because I I I know that I'd want to make a video where she's really young, because to me that's like such an exciting thing to share. But there will be an early cutoff in her life where I'm like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Also, there are videos that we've seen of other babies and toddlers that we really enjoy from a very wholesome perspective, but I also understand that not everyone is like us where our intent is pure, where we're like, oh my god, that was so cute, lol, someone else might be creepy and have not very nice intentions. So there's that too.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

I have what might be like a final question or a final umbrella for questions. Okay, but I would like to know what kind of parent you would like to be. And you can you can answer that from any perspective that you want. Yeah. Whatever's on your mind when you think I would love to do that for our daughter. Go with it and talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

I want her to have her own voice. I want her to have the most self-confidence.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

I know that's important for you.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

I want her to feel like she can live life on her own terms. I don't want her to feel like I have to go and pursue this career path because my parents are pressuring me to do this or anything like that. I want her to have uninhibited joy, whatever that looks like, whatever hobbies she's interested in. I feel like I would bend over backwards to allow her to explore any interest that she has. And I think that actually both of us would do a really good job of building up her self-esteem all the time.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

That's important to me as well.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Yeah. And to also know this is this is this your your standard for other people should be up here.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Your standard for how what kind of treatment you're gonna accept from other people should be up here. I also, this sounds very random, but I I wish that this had been impressed upon me as I was I was gonna ask that as like a flip side is the importance of having other girlfriends, the importance of prioritizing your friendships with other girls and then when she's older, other women. And I don't because I had to learn that a moment. My own later on in life, I feel like. I feel like, yes, you're gonna have romantic interests, I'm sure, later on and so forth, but it is so important to also prioritize your platonic friendships too. And even through college, I wish I'd known how important that was. I thought I went through college thinking, I don't have friends, it's fine. Yeah, um, it was not fine, it was not good for my emotional well-being, for my happiness, and so on. And I feel like the people you have in your life make such a huge difference in your overall well-being, you know. And so I would like to say, you know, you have to invest into your friendships, you have to be there for each other, you have to this and that and that. Um, so that's kind of what I'm thinking. And then obviously, all the obvious stuff with exercise and food and fitness that would surprise nobody.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

I don't even find that like an interesting topic.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Like we would we we raise her to hopefully have robust body image to that is an interesting topic. Yes, which which I think obviously will be tricky to navigate, especially as her body changes and grows and whatnot. But I feel like we can make a a lasting positive impact on her in terms of how we treat her at home and how what we model at home in the home environment and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Is there anything you didn't enjoy as a child other than looking back and thinking, I wish I had more female friends when I was younger, that you think I would do that differently?

SPEAKER_00 45:35

I think it's important for me, it's really important not to not to put put my wants onto her in terms of profession, in terms of I think you've come from a very ambitious like how you how how even small things like body comments, obviously, we know how I feel about that.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Or how she wants to dress. Like if she wants to be a tomboy, I'd be like, cool, that's fine with me. If you want to wear black, all black, I'd be like, okay, that's fine, let's do it, you know? And I think it's important for them to have their own sense of identity.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

That's not pressured by her parents or anybody else. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Yeah. I think there are some things that I think back to when I was a child that I would do similarly, that I think my parents did really well on. And there are certain things that I would look back and go, maybe I would change that, which isn't necessarily like fault of my parents, just how I felt as a child. So, for example, I am quite shy and I think I'm quite easy to get embarrassed, and I don't know where that came from, but to me that's something I would like to change. So, for example, I am not someone who goes onto a dance floor and feels confident. I feel very self-conscious when there are lots of eyes on me. I have no idea where it came from, but you aren't like that.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

You are I feel like I am in some ways, but maybe less less so.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

So, in in I guess in some ways, but you you cope better than I do. I think you are you're more relaxed. If you wanted to go on the dance floor, you're gonna dance floor more so than me, and I think you can let loose easier than I can. And I think I would like our child not to be crippled by anxiety and embarrassment and shame, which is how I feel. And I think I got a lot of that from my mum because she is like a more anxious version of me. Obviously, I love her to pieces, it's not intentional. I just would love it if our daughter wasn't as anxious as I am, because that makes life hard sometimes. I would love it if our daughter didn't have Crohn's disease, although obviously we can't really influence that. One thing that I remember, a couple of things I remember that I think my parents did really well. I remember my dad, I think one of the things that I think he was most influential for was he would read to me from a very young age, and he was very very big on encouraging like literacy. That's really good. So I remember being my my parents broke up, I think, when I was five. So I must have been three or four years old, and I remember him reading Lord of the Rings to me and The Hobbit. Yeah, and I don't know if he read them because he found them interesting, but he said to me later on that he thought it was good to expose me to that kind of content. And when I was young in school, I remember my reading age was always high compared to most other people the same age as me. And I don't know if that was why, but I think that's cute.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Yeah, that's uh actually I'm glad you brought that up because we've talked about before too how I want to take her to the library when she's younger and we have like a reading hour and stuff like that together, and I do think that basic literacy and education is super important, and now doesn't mean that she has to get a higher education necessarily. I think there's lots of different ways to learn, but I do want to foster a sense of a lifelong curiosity in her similar to what we have.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

I do have I do have one opposing side to that, and I know this changes. This is a very accidentally holier than now attitude because I haven't done this chapter. Okay. I think it would be amazing if we could keep her away from smartphones for longer than the average and social media and ideally minimize TV, I think. And I know I know that it's easy to say that because when you have a child that's screaming and you need to distract them, sometimes you have to resort to things, and I understand that. I mean, but in my head, I feel like my own attention span in life has decreased with social media, and especially the way social media's gone in the last few years, but also I have a very addictive personality and I know what it's like to get suckered into watching TV and watching more TV and watching more TV, and yeah, I think especially at a young age, I think it would be great if I could be engaged with her more so than well, let's put on a I know it's possible because my brother and sister-in-law, they're our our niece, she's screen-free.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

You know, they don't watch TV with her, they don't give her iPad or anything like that. But that also obviously means that we're gonna be have to be that much more cognizant of our own smartphone and TV use around her.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Yeah, so this this isn't like this isn't a a place of judgment coming from me. I don't judge people using them. It's more that I don't want to feel like I have to I don't want to feel like I am turning to that out of ease. So I don't want to be like, I'm gonna put her in front of the TV so I can bug her off and do something for a while if I feel like I'm having the easy way out as opposed to being with her and being attentive and engaging with her. And I I would like to think that I have more that I could do as a parent, perhaps, than well, this is I feel like this will be interesting to come back to in a year's time or whenever to see how well this has held up. It might be because when I was a child, I don't remember watching TV. I'm not saying that I didn't, it's just I think because I remember like my dad reading to me, and I remember going out and playing with him every weekend. I saw him after my parents broke up, I would go over and play sports, whether it was going outside and throwing a frisbee or throwing a I would like that with our throwing a tennis ball at each other across the field. It was never a case of when I went to his house, it was never like let's watch our show. Yeah, and as as I got older into teenage years, that changed completely. Um, but I do like that when I was younger, I felt like he encouraged me to be physically active, I feel like he encouraged me to read, I feel like he was coaxing me to try and be more intellectual, and I think that was that was like a nice thing that I would like to focus on.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

I do love the idea of especially on weekends and everything, getting out of the house together and doing something, even if it's like going to the public library together or going to the park, doing something outside.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

I think especially outdoor time, I feel that outdoor time has changed. I remember when I was younger, it like me and my friends would literally go out on the streets and just take a football to each other. Same, yeah. And I don't feel like that, at least in England where I grew up, I didn't feel like it was as common. Like we know from like a research perspective that screen time goes up and smartphone usage has gone up and all of these trends that have made people more sedentary. I think I'm maybe cognizant, I would like to resist against that, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

As much as we can.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Yeah, and smartphone usage terrifies me. I think, especially I think my niece probably had a smartphone when she was like nine or ten or something, and I don't know, social media's a it's the wild, wild west out there.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

I would be very uncomfortable if our kid was eight or nine years old and they were consuming all the content on social media, interacting with you never know who they're talking to or what they're being influenced by. I don't know. It's scary.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

I have a final question perhaps before we sign off, because this is a time capsule episode and we might revisit this in a year. Yeah. I can't think of a better way to sign off than asking if there's anything you want to say to our daughter.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

I was not anticipating this.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

It's mainly because I think it'd be nice to see how you really feel. I think talking to her makes it more real.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Where do I look? Look up. I don't want to make eye contact with anybody.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

I just want to know how you really feel, and I can't think of a better question that would get there.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

I'm gonna talk to her in maybe in third person. I would tell her I would want her to know how wanted she is. And she's gonna have a really happy life with us. I'm gonna keep it brief right there.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

I think my favorite thing about this journey has been seeing how much you want her. I think I think in some ways I'm envious of the connection that you will have with her because I think mothers will always have a greater default bond when you have brought a child into the world and carried a child that I don't think I think it's hard for men to understand just how strong that is. And I think your maternal instinct is so strong. And I've seen how excited you are for her, yeah, and heard literally every single day, multiple times a day, you telling me that you can't wait to meet her, or telling me that you're staying in bed a little bit longer because you can feel her kicking and you're not ready to get up and that not be your soul attention, or stopping what you're doing to put your hands on your stomach, or stopping what you're doing to grab my hands to put them on your stomach, and seeing how excited you are to be a mum has been such a a privilege for me to see, and I'm so excited to see how you hopefully blossom.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

And also want her to know despite the aches and pains that feeling her rolling and kicking around has she's rolling right now and it makes me so happy every single time. What would you want to say to her?

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Stupidly, I didn't think you would you would turn it back on me. I don't think I could say it better than you've said it, and not because I'm copping out, but because we have made such a strong effort to not even a strong effort intentionally, but I know between us we have constantly talked about hoping that she will realise how loved she is.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

She will know.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

And no doubt. Even little things like how excited you got when I framed the photos of her first ultrasound and you holding her first ultrasound and things like that. And the idea was when she grows up and she sees all of these things, like we have her first photos, her first photo of her inside you rather than her first photo of her being born, and I know how excited you are and how important it is for you to know that she feels loved, and that's so important for me as well. So to me, that would be probably the biggest yardstick of whether we're succeeding or not. I think life people can can do well at life in a way that looks very, very different. Yeah, and I think ultimately to me life is hopefully about happiness and love, however that looks, not necessarily with another person, but I think if she can grow up knowing how loved she is, yeah, I think that is probably a strong foundation for a happy kid.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

I think that that's one thing that I'm extremely confident on is the fact that she will go her entire life, never for one second, questioning how much she is loved by us.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

And I part of the reason I feel so strongly about that is because when we first started dating, I remember saying, I don't think you necessarily have the strongest sense of self-esteem, and it was a really important thing for me to know that you feel loved. And I have heard you say, even on social media, I never ever doubt not just that my husband loves me, but I'm the most important thing in his world. So seeing how you have transformed that would be something that I think would be amazing if we could make our transformation.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Faux show.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

I think to finish this episode, I would love to ask if anyone has parenting advice because before our wedding day, I posted on my Instagram stories, does anyone have any wedding day tips? And I read every single reply, and one of the biggest replies was take time for yourself because the day goes fast, and make sure you eat because the day goes fast, you tend to not eat. And we had a few minutes of silence, just me and you, when all the chaos was happening in the wedding party. And even though I read all of those comments, I still forgot to eat because it was chaotic. I didn't but the point is a lot of people listening to this have been through this before, and they have advice that we would love to hear. Yeah. And I think I think we need it. Yeah, obviously. Why not? We if we have an audience of people who are more experienced than us, it's not like this isn't a case of us reading PubMed and reading research articles like we do with other big topics that we talk about. This is like we need people's experience. Yeah. So if you have any words of wisdom, we would love to hear them. Don't feel pressured, you don't have to spam us if you've got nothing useful to say. But if you have one really good piece of parenting advice that you could shout from the rooftops for people, we are listening. So please feel free to shout. And we will talk to you soon. We don't know how soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

That's a wrap.