What Childbirth Was REALLY Like. Honest New Parent Q&A

We are back from our break, and it gives us great pleasure to introduce you to our baby.

(For privacy reasons, we are not showing her face or telling the world her name. The thumbnail is a stock photo and not of her, because some people on the internet can be creepy).

In this episode, we answer the questions everyone wanted to ask us about childbirth, postpartum recovery, and the first few weeks of parenthood.

We talk about:
- pain relief
- epidurals
- sleep deprivation
- tearing
- postpartum depression
- life with a newborn

Plus all the gross and emotional stuff that you would expect from an unfiltered episode.

We also share parts of the birth experience, what surprised us most, and the things nobody fully prepares you for before becoming parents.

This is our most sleep-deprived episode yet. We hope you like it.

P.S., If you want to support us, and would like monthly lifting workouts, you can join the Momentum by Sohee fitness app. http://momentumbysohee.com

If you are interested in fat loss science, you can purchase Ben's best-selling comprehensive fat loss book, Everything Fat Loss. http://geni.us/EverythingFatLoss

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This might be an absolutely terrible idea, but we are very excited to introduce you to likely our squidgiest, cutest guest ever. Absolute cutest.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

This is our baby. We're not gonna be showing her face. We're not gonna be sharing her name.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Baby Carpenter.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Yeah, but she's here with us. And hopefully we can make it through this episode with minimal stoppage. We'll see. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Today has involved, I think, four outfit changes. One of yours, three of hers, due to various bodily fluids. So doing this with her here, it's a it's a risk. But we wanted to do an episode after our gap. Obviously, the last episode we did. We said we were going to have a pause, we weren't sure how long that pause would be. And it seemed kind of odd to just get back into regular health and fitness content. When we started posting on our Instagram stories, it was like we have the biggest life change ever, and now we're just going to talk about protein and exercise. It feels kind of weird. So I said, why don't we do a full debrief? Every time we watch a film, we debrief afterwards. Why wouldn't we have a debrief with you as our online internet friends after this huge life chapter?

SPEAKER_03 1:15

I also want to say that when we started the podcast a few months ago, I was already pregnant, which means that every time I've sat in this chair, I've had a baby growing inside me. And this is the very first time I'm sitting here, not pregnant, but which feels great by the way. We can talk a little more about that maybe later. But now I have a baby in my lap.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah, I think especially because you've had a baby bump for all of the podcast. If we just were like, oh, by the way, we're gonna go on a little bit of a hiatus because we'll be having a child soon. I'm right back to science. And then the next episode is talking about fitness. It just I don't know, it feels weird. So this is going to be a very personal episode. You were gonna say something.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Well, and and I think we we have we've gotten so many questions about the childbirth experience and whatever. So may as well talk about it at length in one episode and then move on.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah, so I posted on my Instagram stories last night, I don't know when this will come out after it's edited and all of that stuff, and said, are people interested in an episode about our birth experience? I say our, I was obviously playing an integral role, and part of it was because if no one cared, then no one cared, and we wouldn't talk about it, and that's fine. It's like it satisfies our curiosity that no one cares. But I had a surprising number of replies, and I know you had a lot of replies as well, from people who said yes, we would love to hear about the birthing experience, hear about your birth story, and I think there are a couple of different reasons for this. One, it's just online friends. If you know that we have gone through a change, you want to hear about the change, or some of you do, but also some people said I would love to hear about it because we have a child due in X number of weeks, days, months, whatever it is, and I would like to hear your kind of unfiltered review. And I think because we have just been through this, again, we uh uh uh uh I was very important in this. I think we can give people an unfiltered here is what to expect because we were surprised, I think. I think we had a learning curve on what the reality was like, and I have never heard someone talking as candidly about labour as uh I feel like we could have benefited from. So maybe that's what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

So obviously I will be spearheading the episode, but most of the questions will be directed at Sohi. Some of them are directed at me. But start us off, just tell us your birth story. What was childbirth, what was the childbirth experience like was one of the most popular questions.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

I actually have been wanting to talk about this because I believe in a previous episode I had mentioned my in my my fear. I had a lot of fear surrounding childbirth, especially given so one one I'm pre-ne pre- and postnatal certified, and that was I got certified a number of years ago. Of course, when you're going through the course, you're gonna watch videos and you're gonna see photos of what what the reality is of you know tearing and risks and this, like this and that. And I was terrified of the pain of childbirth. I was terrified by the pictures of tearing that I saw to the point where bef long before we even agreed to try for a baby, I was already saying that seems really, really scary. So then, of course, I got pregnant, and as my due day is approaching, I know the baby has to come out somehow. The baby has to come out somehow, so what are we gonna do? And a number of times I made jokes to you about can you knock me out and wake me up when she's out so I don't have too experience in obtaining. But obviously, I've made it out the other side. I I want to talk about my experience in that it yes, it was very hard, yes, it hurt, but I would still describe it as an overall very positive experience for me, and I think it's important to share that because I saw a lot of stories very negative, very traumatic, horror stories, and I know that happens, everyone's gonna have a different experience, but for someone who went in very, very scared and who ended up having a overall relatively smooth labor experience from start to finish, recovery's also been going well. I think it's nice to kind of hear a more positive take on that.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

I think I think if I'm not if you remember where you are you're at, if I can interject just very briefly with a typical caveat for our episode. Obviously, many people have very different childbirth experiences, and because of that, I think hearing people talk about things can sometimes be a little bit triggering. Some people can have a super traumatic childbirth, and hearing someone say, Oh, you know, ours went really, really well, or vice versa. I think sometimes it can look a bit tone-deaf when people talk about the positives if you had a really negative experience, or vice versa. We are just talking about our still our experience, but we know that that is not necessarily indicative of everyone else's.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

And it's obviously possible that I could have had a negative experience. Mine happened to be positive. Before I talk about the labor experience, I do want to say that we did a few things to prepare for the whole thing that I think made a big difference. One, we took a childbirth prep class, two, we took a newborn prep class, which I think maybe would have done it a little bit closer to the due date because I honestly forgot a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Regardless. And then the thing, the other thing that we did that I really liked was we took a maternity tour of the hospital that we had tentatively chosen to give birth at. Well, for me to give birth at. It gave us a really good impression of obviously how they operate. We got to get a vibe of the staff who, to be fair, they all seemed very calm and very happy, was my impression. And they also got to tell us, oh, these are all the things that we supply you with. So you don't have to stuff your hospital bag with everything under the sun. Of course, we still overpacked, but now I know, okay, if we were to ever do it again, we don't have to talk about this now, but if we were to do it again, we can actually bring a lot less because they're gonna give us with a lot of things. So I I left with a really good impression of the hospital. That's what sealed the deal for me to say, yes, I want to give birth here. This is where I want to be. And I went in feeling really good. The other thing I did was I made the decision to hire a birth doula. Now, from my understanding, birth doula is not a medical professional, but they are primarily there to help you make informed decisions as the mom and also be a source of emotional support for me. This is something that I really wanted because obviously for both of us, it was our first child. There was a lot that we didn't know. I was feeling a lot of overwhelm about. I mean, I'm not the expert, I'm someone who's pregnant, but I'm not a birth expert. There's so much information. I I wanted to be able to hire someone who could help me filter out the noise and feel less overwhelmed, and then also be in the delivery room with us, helping keep me calm because I knew there was probably gonna be a moment where I would panic, which did happen, and help me put, you know, put me in more comfortable positions, help guide Ben into okay, do this for her, and here's how you can better support her, XYZ. So that's what I did. I think having a doula made a huge difference. For my understanding, there's also a research paper showing that having a doula with you can improve uh birthing and delivery outcomes as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

So I think one good summary there is for anyone who has never had a child, and I don't know how this works in different countries, but when we were planning the birth plan, still we, but obviously you, there was a list of options. And I remember us looking at it and we were like, we just don't even know what most of these things are. Yeah. If you have never been through pregnancy and you've never had labor looming, there are lots of decisions that you can make which you are just not expected to know. So it's like, what are your views on an epesiotomy? What are your views on pain medication? Yeah, would you do this? Would you do this? Would you have a folio catheter, whatever it is? And you have to know all of these things. And we just looked at him, we we don't even know what all of them are. So having someone to guide us through was very, very useful. And it's kind of like a cheat sheet, in the same way someone might ask us a fitness question, knowing oh, we can trust their answer, hopefully, yeah. We were doing that and kind of outsourcing the reassurance, I think.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

And it was really important to me that the doula that we ended up hiring was not going to be super biased in any one direction except for what the science says. So if there's some method and they said the overwhelming scientific evidence suggests that this is not safe anymore or not recommended anymore because XYZ, then I could be like, okay, then I won't do it. But if she says, Well, there's pros and cons to this, and there's also pros and cons to not doing this, here they are. You can make the best decision for yourself. That's what I wanted, and that's how that's what we got, thankfully.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, so which I really liked. When I asked about your birth plan, I like that one of the first things you said were the logistics of you're like, when we went to the hospital, I left with way more things, or they had way more things in there than we were expecting, and you talked about backpacking and things. Are you happy to go into some of the more gory details? So some of the questions were things like, Did you tear? Did you take pain medication? Those kind of things.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

I'm happy to. I'm gonna take a few minutes to go over. I debated back and forth if I wanted to share this. I want I really want to emphasize that I'm simply sharing my personal experience. I am by no means saying this is what I did, therefore this is what you should do. I fully, fully think that everyone needs to make the best decision for themselves, which might be totally different from what I did.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

And also, if I'm allowed to advocate for you briefly, being a parent, and I think being a mother especially is a very, very personal thing which is subject to a lot of scrutiny. Yes. So just when you were posting about pregnancy, so many people have children, obviously, which means so many people have opinions. So so he could post that she was exercising, and there'd be people telling her not to exercise, there'd be people telling her that that exercise isn't safe, whatever. Yeah. So imagine when you talk about your birthing experience, the most personal thing that you can go through in your whole life for most people, when you put it on the internet, there will be people who will judge you whether you have paid medication or not, whether you have a C-section or not, whether you get induced or not, etc. I want to advocate for you here because this is a very personal thing for you to up open up about, and I know that people have opinions, I think that's fine. It would be super nice if they could accept them lovingly and we can gloss past rather than getting judgy fingers.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

I hope and I hope that even if you were to say, Well, I wouldn't have done that, that's also fine. Yeah, I wouldn't judge you for doing something totally different from me.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

I also think part of the birthing experience is being able to flow with the punches, so to speak. Because a lot of it is like, would you be open to a c-section? And even if you put ideally not, they still need to know that you're okay if shit hits the fan and you need a C-section. So a lot of it is are you okay rolling with the punches and adapting what your plan was?

SPEAKER_03 12:56

So I I wasn't sure if I wanted to share this part, but I will say that I chose to get induced for the birth. The baby was measuring very, very large through all the ultrasound scans throughout the pregnancy. Now, from what I've learned, the growth estimates are oftentimes not super accurate. So I knew that as well. And with that said, my doctor said, Do you want because she's measuring large and because you are of advanced medical age, or some people might say geriatric, because I'm 36 years old, she said, Do you want to get induced at week 39? Week 39, at least uh at least in here in America now, is considered full-term pregnancy. So anywhere from I think 39 weeks to 41 weeks is full term. And I actually took several weeks to think about it. I won't dive into everything here. Ultimately, I decided, okay, we're gonna get induced at 30 39 weeks, and it happened to be plus three days, and she came two days later at five days. So she came two days before her actual estimated due date, essentially, but still furlong term. Okay. So what happened was I went in, we got admitted to the hospital on a Thursday night, technically very early Friday morning.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

9 p.m.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Huh?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

9 p.m.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

That was when we were like we showed up, but we didn't get the room until past 2 a.m. Yeah. Technically Friday. And then by Saturday, 3 p.m., she was out. I say that. She didn't pop out like that. It was not like that, okay? So I did have to get induced. I got um what was the first one? Cetatech.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

To help ripen the cervix and everything. Then the next few hours later, I did get Pitocin. I opted not to have my water broken yet. I wanted to let the Pitocin do its thing. So I let that do its thing. My cervix was dilating, which by the way is one of the most painful things I've ever experienced. Surprise, fun fact. Her coming out of me, because I had a vaginal birth, her coming out of me was not the most painful part. Not even close. I thought it would be. That was the part that I was most afraid of. It was halfway down the list of the things that hurt. Putting the Ivy uh hip lock in hurt way, way more, but it was, you know, a few seconds long. Getting my cervix checked. Oh my god.

unknown 15:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

And I know you can decline.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

Yes. Yeah. I know you have the uh right to say no to those. I I want to know how dilated I was. So I said yes to them. Uh and then I would say even the fundal massage after the birth was a lot more painful than her coming out as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Just to check, you said having your IV put in was more painful than pushing her out.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Okay. Because I was there for both, and I would not have said that.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Yeah, but it might have been it was the the intensity and the sharpness of the pain that I found really painful.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

But it also might have been the way that it was put in for me specifically, okay? So, and then what is the timeline? So I got Pitocin. I I think I want I got to about six or seven centimeters dilated, and that's when the contraction started really hurting, okay? The nurse did tell me the anesthesiologist is around. Of course, if he gets pulled into a C-section or something, he won't be available for this, this, this. But until roughly this time, you can tell me if you want the epidural and I can bring him and he can do this for you. Otherwise, you might have to wait a bit longer. And I was like, I don't want to miss my window. I I did not have a very specific rigid birth plan. And to me, I did that very intentionally because I went in, I said numerous times to my doula, to my husband, I want to be very open-minded because we don't know how this is gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

I don't want to feel married to this is the only way I want to give birth, and if it doesn't go my way, I'm gonna get very upset. I had to be, I wanted to be mentally prepared for I would like this to happen, but if not, I have to be okay with exploring alternative routes.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Which I, if I'm allowed to pass judgment as if I'm worth listening to, I personally thought was really good because most people I know their births did not go the way that they expected. So I think knowing that you might change makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yeah. So by the time I it was Friday evening around 6 p.m. and the contractions were starting to really hurt. The contractions, by the way, I found harder than the actual child childbirth person portion to the point where you know you you you learn about the different stages of labor. When you're in active labor, we have some video footage and and and pictures that Dudula took of us. I feel I felt like I you you want to tense up. It's so it feels like I was describing to a friend, it feels like someone's taking your uterus and wringing it out like a towel, like a wet towel, twisting it inside of you, and it's happening every two, three, four minutes, and there's nothing you can do but ride the wave, baby, and breathe through it. And then, of course, the doula's constantly reminding me, try to relax. If you tense up, it'll make it worse. Relax, breathe through it, try these poses, try these techniques. That was really hard. And so that's when I decided when the when I felt like the pain was getting to be a lot, I said, Give me the epidural, baby.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

So the epidural originally, I think you said when you because you were so scared of the pain of childbirth, originally months and months ago, you said, Yes, I want an epidural, why wouldn't I take it? Obviously, there can be risk with any medication, but you wanted the least painful birth that you could. And then we had some different opinions and you started getting a little bit more skeptical about it. And then when we're in hospital and they asked about it, are you okay having the epidural? Do you want it? Not long after that, we heard probably the most blood-curdling scream I have ever heard in my entire life. Yes. And I I feel like I need to describe it to people, and it feels slightly weird describing someone else's pain. I'm not trivializing it, but it's it's kind of important to explain. The the scream I heard from next door wasn't ah, I'm in so much pain kind of scream. It was more like bawling tears as if they had just received the worst news of their life. When I heard it, I thought their baby had died because it was the pain of witnessing something horrific. It was a scream that I have never heard before.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

And it was a long scream.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

It was a very long scream, and I was like, Oh fuck, what's happened? Like my heart sunk. I was like, have they just lost their child? It sounded like a mother who just lost their baby. And turned to the nurse in the room and said, Are they okay next door? And she kind of laughed and said, That's natural childbirth.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

That's the sound of natural childbirth.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

And I think that was like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

And that's that's right when I was uh I was in active labor, I was feeling the very painful contractions, my doula was there jiggling my hips and everything, and I remember my face, I was like, What is that?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

What is that? What is that noise? And it's like waiting to go on a fair ground ride and you see someone at the top screaming, and you're like, I didn't think it would be that bad, and now I hear it.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

And so shortly after that, I was like, I'll take the epidural. And and of course, there's a possibility that the epidural can fail. It thankfully did not fail for me. It came kicked into effect, I want to say 20, 30 minutes later.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

And it's a blur to me. I don't remember that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

I would say, I will say this. A lot of people think, a lot of people say, you know, having the epidural will prolong labor and so on. I feel like obviously I I'm an equals one. I didn't do this twice. I feel like having the epidural for me personally made it an easier experience in that it allowed me to fall asleep. It allowed me to sleep on Friday night, which obviously gave me rest. I was able to not feel the intense contractions for several hours allowing me to sleep. So I woke woke up the next morning with more energy.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

So, for people that haven't been through childbirth, maybe an easy way to explain this because this is also something I wasn't familiar with. Imagine going to hospital, being in no pain. When you first went there, you felt fine.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

I was chilling, we were watching TV shows, joking around.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

It's very early days, but even so, you're going to be there for a long time. We took bags as if we might be there for one, two, three, four days, whatever it was. Then you have a long period of contractions, which for some people is a day, two days, or whatever. And that is the bit where if you said you're pain out of ten, what would you grade it at for this the active labour? Yeah. Not the not that you're now pushing, the you're getting contractions.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Probably got to an eight out of ten by the time I got the epidural.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

So imagine being flowing in and out of an eight out of ten for hours and hours. And you don't know how long it's gonna last. And hours and you don't know when it's gonna be. And that's like the hardest part. Yeah, occasionally they will come and check how dilated you are. And so he could have been in agony for ages. And then so oh you're four centimetres or whatever. And this is the bit when people say labour goes on for a very long period of time, it doesn't necessarily mean you are proactively pushing to get them out for two days. It's waiting and feeling the contractions before you get to a point where like, okay, now we can push.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

So then Friday night uh came around. I think I had already had my epidural in. I was also afraid of the foley catheter because when you have an epidural, they have to put a fully catheter in. Barely felt anything. So that was another fear of mine.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

I remember you being very scared about that. And you even said, Oh, have you done it?

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Yeah, I'm like, I've done it before. What does it hurt? What does it feel like?

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Oh no, I mean, once they had done it, you were fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

And because when you have an epidural, at least for me, you can't leave the bed. Yeah. You're bit you're bedbound. And so uh you also can't feel when you have to pee, hence the catheter. That was all fine. I was very relieved. Friday evening, they did break my water, did not feel that. And so then to help get things moving, I was able to sleep, as I said, for a few hours. The next morning Because the night before you had slept I think like maybe maybe two hours, very, very little. Saturday morning, I woke up at around 4 30.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

You messaged me, so I have my AirPods in to drown out hospital noise, and you're the only person who can buy bypass my do not disturb at all times. And it was like, message from So he carpenter. Hello, and it was like, hello, I need help. And I of course sprung up.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

You were on the couch over there. Anyway, but at 4 30, I waited about 90 minutes before I even texted you. I woke up at 4 30, even with the epidural, with the most intense pressure I've ever felt in my body in my life. I don't even it feels like there's a bowling ball trying to shove its way out of your butt every two minutes. That's what it felt like. It was her head. It was her head, okay? Yeah. And I was like, what is this going on? Now, epidural doesn't take away all pain, it takes away sharp pain. So even though there wasn't sharp pain, it still really freaking hurt, okay? So it's this dull, blunt, intense pressure. And I woke up, eventually woke up my husband, I woke up my doula, and I was like, This baby's gonna come out of my butt. I swear, and they're like, you know, my doula's like, she's not gonna come out of your butt. It's she's very common. I'm like, no, she isn't. She didn't I promise you.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

So she didn't actually need reassuring. It's not like she thought that was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

That's actually what it feels like. And and that's when I started panicking, and she's like, Oh, you're in transition. This is very common where people get very panicky and you feel like you lose control. And I was like, Yep, that's me. I'm there, I'm there. And so, you know, they they put me in different positions to help try to relieve the pressure. And uh I had actually spiked a fever that morning, probably because they had broken my water. So I was at over a hundred degrees Fahrenheit, and the staff said, Okay, we need to bring your fever down before you can actually push. So they administered antibiotics and some other medication that made me a bit drowsy. So again, I was able to sleep. And then by a little after maybe 1 30, 140 p.m., they're like, Okay, now we're gonna try and push because you are ready to go.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

They said actually said one of the nurses said the night before it was about 10 p.m. Oh yeah, she thought it would. She said, I think you're going to give birth tonight or very early tomorrow morning. So obviously we got excited thinking we were at the end of the road, light at the end of the tunnel. It was still Yeah. I don't know how many hours after 15 hours or so after.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

I I think it's I think it would have been nice not to have people say anything about what they think the timeline's gonna be, because you really don't know. It could be super fast, it could go days. Yeah. Anyway, that aside, that's not it's a small point. So I ended up pushing for an hour, uh roughly an hour and a half, okay. I will say pushing felt like a relief compared to sitting through the contractions towards the end. Because it felt like you're doing something about the pain you're experiencing, and it feels a lot less, it's a lot less painful, at least for me, when I was actively pushing. Okay. So with the contractions, we the nurse had me wait until the contractions were peaking. So even when I felt the tightening, she would make me wait. And that was really hard too, by the way. You were obviously there holding one of my legs back.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

I got pretty tired just just holding a leg. I was like, because she was getting me to curve your pelvis by like rounding your lower back. So I was having to lift your leg a little bit. It wasn't just flexing at the hip, I was having to really pull it. Yeah. And I was like, God, my my arm's getting tired. And there's you on the bed with like the most aggressive tension I've ever seen in your face. Yeah. Like the grimace of of um exertion.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Yeah. And that's why I feel like being able to have having been able to sleep the night before, even if it was maybe four hours, five hours of very broken sleep, I still think it helped me personally. So overall, I am personally happy that I got the epidural. I'm happy that I chose to give birth in a hospital. I'm happy that I chose to hire Adula. Again, by the time she was coming out the birth canal, yes, again, there was very intense pressure. I could feel, I could feel when she was about to come out because the pressure is mounting and mounting and mounting. By the end, I was so ready to meet her that I was okay. You stopped, at least for me, I stopped caring about the eight to ten medical staff that had shuffled into the room preparing for her to pop out and do all the tests on her. And I'm like, I don't care about the noises I'm making, I don't care who sees what. As long as she's delivered and she's healthy and safe and mom is also okay, I'll be fine. That's kind of what was going through my head at the end.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Because you said afterwards, and someone actually asked about this specifically, you said you were worried about tearing, and towards the end, you were like, I don't care anymore. I just I want her to come out.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

Yeah. And so I did get questions about this. I had a second degree tear, which I'm told is very common. And I was actually surprised because I I didn't I was like, oh, okay. It it felt super mild. Obviously, I had an epidural, so I'm not gonna feel everything. I was stitched up. I was afraid of that as well. That was not nearly as painful as I thought it was gonna be. As I said, the fundal massage where they massage, you know, your uterus to help it contract. That one hurt, man. I think I was kind of screaming a little bit. I was not expecting that to hurt as much as it did.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

I think part of that is also a surprise because the nurse she didn't have the most uh empathetic bedside manner, and she was like, We have to massage you, and she just started doing it, and you were like, Holy fuck.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

And um I think I actually grabbed her arm and I think it was the surprise about her just saying, We need to I need to massage you and her inflicting what looked like I grabbed her arm because I was so surprised and it hurt so much, and she was like, Sorry, I gotta do this, and that sucked. But overall, I would say, besides my feet my brief fever, I think everything went overall pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Don't get me wrong, when you say like, oh, it was a smooth sailing process, that kind of downplays how it was still hard dramatic and painful and difficult, and the whirlwind of emotions that you have, but in hindsight there were no huge issues, and I think that is the testament and the litmus test of how successful if you will, because you're not expected to go in and be like, oh yeah, that was totally pain free, and now I have a baby.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

That was so great.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

You just don't want major complications, of course.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

And I honestly, I I I on on our way to the hospital, I looked up Ben and I actually said to him, It probably won't happen, but there's a chance that I may not make it out of this. Makes me emotional even saying that. Uh obviously that didn't happen. We're very grateful. I had no medical, serious medical complications. Uh, I didn't have to do a C-section, which I did want to avoid, so I'm happy about that. She came out very healthy. They said that she had shoulder dystocia for about 10 seconds, where her shoulder was stuck in in the birth canal very briefly, but she had no problems from that. And otherwise she was great.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

I think you getting slightly emotional. A few people asked, which we will go on to later, is how you feel post-birth. But I do think that it's such a traumatic thing that you go through that talking about it is still likely to be a little bit raw. Someone I even got comments from people that said how difficult it was to even think back to the whole process. So I don't know, in some ways, this is quite a soon podcast episode.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

So I don't want to I don't want to wait too long, but I know I'm talking about this whole thing very casually, but I will say that childbirth was by far the most intense and the most surreal experience of my life. Nothing even comes close to this.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

So we we have like a couple of questions pertaining to childbirth specifically before we move on, but on that note, someone asked how childbirth compares to running a marathon.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

Yeah. Oh man. First of all, I did say before that the first trimester of pregnancy was made marathon prep seem so easy. That's the I will say that. I know other people think differently. No, marathon prep was a breeze. I will say childbirth made marathon running a marathon seem super easy as well. It was it was really, really hard, and yet it was not as horrible as I had made it out to be in my head, if if if that distinction makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

You know? So I would say London Marathon and New York Marathon, both of which I ran last year. Yes, it was obviously a lot of hard work. Man, it makes they seem like nothing compared to childbirtbirth for me.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah. One other question. Someone said, what surprised you about birth?

SPEAKER_03 32:44

The thing that surprised me the most about childbirth was how the part that I thought I would that the part that I thought would be the worst part, which was her coming out of my birth canal, ended up being not anywhere near the top of the list of the things that I found hardest and most painful.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Yeah, that surprised me as well. That the idea they said is you have so much pressure building that when you start pushing it actually feels kind of more like a release. It feels better relief. Yes. Rather than the hours and hours and hours. And I think also there's a psychology, in the same way, if we stick with the marathon metaphor, a lot of the painful miles are the miles in the middle before you see the finish line. Yeah. And I think when you see the finish line, there's the light at the end of the tunnel, you have that flick of a switch where you're like, okay, we're nearly there. Where if they say we can see her head, yeah, that's very different because you know that you're potentially just a few contractions away. Whereas you being in pain and them going, you're one centimetre dilated, and you're like, What the fuck? I've been doing this for how many hours. I think that has a different Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

So that really surprised me. And at the same time, I was surprised at how empowered I felt at the end of it. Of course I'm tired. Of course I'm drained. Of course I feel grubby. I haven't left the bed in how many hours, I haven't showered or whatever. But you're also so, at least for me, I was so floored by the fact that I actually did that. The thing that I was so afraid of for so many years, I did it and I succeeded at it. And now we have this beautiful baby on the other side. That was such an incredible feeling.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Someone asked you to ask me a question. Yes. So I have a couple of questions on there.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

The question is, how did you feel as the husband watching your wife going through childbirth?

SPEAKER_00 34:45

I honestly I really struggle to put it into words. It was the most amazing thing I have ever witnessed, it was the most humbling thing I've ever witnessed, and I also felt useless, which was strange, because we have a lot of people in the room who are way more experienced than me, obviously, and they are telling you what to do. And because they are telling you what to do, I don't feel like I had any input there. So if I'm a personal trainer in the gym and I'm like, come on, you can do three more or whatever, but I didn't know what to say to you because I can't say you're nearly there, I don't know if you're nearly there. I can't say push harder because I don't know if you should push harder. So I actually felt really, really useless, and I remember watching you, and we have a couple of photos that we didn't know were being taken, but I'm really pleased that she took them, where I was just watching you and I had tears in my eyes because it was so incredible watching what you were going through. And also it there was something about the fact that you're doing it for our family that I can't help you with that just made me feel so in awe of the amount of effort you were putting in, the amount of pain you were having to go through, and me watching you go through that was I think it will be the most incredible thing I will ever see for my entire life. There was the pain in your face that I have never seen before. I've never seen you pushing that hard. I've seen you push hard in the gym, but comparatively that was I've I thought I've seen you push hard in the gym. I've seen you grimace and grind out another rep, but comparatively that's a a three out of ten compared to how loudly you were yelling and the the veins in your face and your neck because you were gripping on and holding so tight, and seeing the person you love more than anything in the world going through something so incredibly painful and not feeling like you can do anything was really kind of harrowing, but it also just made me feel so in awe of how powerful you were, I think, because I also know how scared you were going into it.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Using her burp clothes.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Because I know how scared you were going into it, there was something about the fact that you were just doing it, and there was also something about the fact that all of your fears and worries uh would were just sidelined. All of the things that we've talked about, all of the things that you were nervous about were no longer a thing. You were just there, you were doing it, you weren't complaining. It was it was incredible. I remember someone in the in my Instagram messages said something like, My husband told me when he saw me giving birth, it made me fall in him fall in love with me all over again. And I didn't feel like that because I didn't I already felt so in love with you, but I understand what they meant. Yeah. I it was the most impressive human feat that I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

I will say that you were obviously a huge help in that your your presence was really needed. You were so calm and I told you a number of times that when I was feeling the painful contractions or when I was pushing and everything, having you really close to my face I really liked. Uh so it wouldn't have been the same without if you had obviously not been in the room for everything. I mean you slept on that very uncomfortable couch for two nights, didn't go home, which I knew you wouldn't. My you know, my mom asked when we were arranging care for the pets and everything. She was like, Well, you can leave the cat at home because your Ben's gonna come home every night, right? And I would I very quickly I said, Absolutely not. He's not leaving the hospital, he's not leaving my side.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

I heard that conversation. That conversation actually made me s slightly emotional because we hadn't talked about it, but I loved how quickly you answered for me. And she said, Well, Ben can come and take care of the pets because he'll stay at our house. For reference, her parents only live literally like four or five minutes from hospital, so they thought when so he goes to sleep, he will just come and sleep here, then he'll go back in the morning. And when she said, Well, he'll come back and he can take care of the pets, you immediately said, No, he won't, he won't leave. And I loved how confident you were that you didn't even have to turn to me and say, Wait, are you planning on staying in the hospital? Yeah, it made me proud of the relationship that we have and the trust that you had in me. Yeah, but also I know from how we have spoken and and the newborn, newborn prep classes and all of that, that being close to you was important, and also I know that it's very personal not being close when you have your feet up in stirrups and you've got two or three people's head between your legs. I'm not sure you want someone else peering over their shoulder. So, although I was kind of fascinated with what was happening, I also felt in some ways you don't want to feel more vulnerable. So, to me, when you had nurses yelling, you know, keep pushing, keep pushing, being there and kind of stroking your head and and talking in your ear felt like a felt like a smarter thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

I knew that you would have without question slept on the hardwood, hard, cold floor with no blanket, no pillow for two, three, four, five nights if that meant that I felt supported by you without and you wouldn't have complained about it. So that was a no-brainer for me.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

That's cute. We have a few questions. So we have some postpartum questions and some parenthood questions. We might have to do a fairly rapid file. Yeah, that's fine. So, first question, which was being asked by many people, obviously, how has your recovery been? How is the fourth trimester? And someone specifically said they found it such a shock to the system, which I think helps helps add nice context to this for anyone who hasn't been with it.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

I would say overall, my recovery has been going quite well, and I'm very grateful for that. We've had several people come by, like I've had a post-parm doula, I've had a lactation consultant come by since then, and you know, they've all said, You seem like your recovery is going really, really well. And even you by day three postpartum, you're like, you're moving a lot quicker than you were day one. You're getting up off the couch much quicker, going up and down the stairs a lot quicker. And I would like to say that a lot of it can be attributed to the fact that I, you know, ate a very nutritious diet through my whole pregnancy, that I exercised, I lifted weights, and I kept up my running through the entire pregnancy. So I'm sure that does contribute, but obviously we don't know for sure. I'm only speaking from my anecdotal personal experience. Um, but I I do think that compared to what I've heard other people recount from their own experiences, my rec my recovery has not felt that painful or that slow compared to theirs.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

I hope you don't mind me saying.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

And I'm very grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

I think your brain, and I'm saying this with extra love to you, I don't think your brain has actually fully comprehended what you have been through because I think you come home and you go straight into mother mode. And the reason I think that is because occasionally when we talk about labour, as we have on this this episode, you get quite teary. And I think your brain has bypassed the things that we would have spoken about. If she wasn't here with us, we would have spoken so much about labour and talked about how you felt and how you're feeling and all of your pains and all of that. But because we now have this adorable little thing in front of us, your brain immediately switches to I'm now a mother. And I think all of the things that we would have talked about a lot have just been pushed to the side.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

I feel like we did talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

I think it's one of those things that if you had a conversation in therapy, they might say uh uh uh uh what happened uh years ago or whatever, because I think there's something there. I think I think you have been through a lot more than you realise because you have just gone straight into being an amazing mum. But the recovery process, I think more guys need to know about what the recovery process is like. So for example, and you can interrupt if you're gonna go. Okay, um so for example, things like even the nurse is saying to us before you leave hospital, you need to make sure that you have adult diapers or nappies in England. You need to make sure that you have things to clean your wounds with, clean stitches with, all of these things. And I don't like I I I think that I am far more in tune with women than most guys. But I didn't realise how much blood would still be coming out of you a week, two weeks, how many weeks after labour. Oh yeah. I didn't realise things like, oh, you're not allowed to have a bath. Or how difficult you're going to find it walking up and down the stairs and things like that. And it really extra humbled me because, as we have both talked about before, you said you felt bamboozled that people hadn't given you the full story about pregnancy. I feel like I don't know the full story about labour, and seeing you go through it has just made me extra appreciative of what you have done and also how you have coped. And the fact that you have gone straight into mother mode when you are still going through so much, I think is incredible.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

In some ways, I feel like there's not you kind of have to go right into mother mode. I will say too that I think the postpartum period I'd be finding a lot more difficult if I didn't have you there basically taking all the nights with her, which has made a huge difference for my recovery, of course. That is my sleep.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Specifically, one of the questions, well, many of the questions were how how we're finding sleep. That was actually going to be the next question.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Yeah, we'll talk more about that.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

A little bit. Um, but also how often I would need to ask you, will you please get me this? Can you help me with this, please? I'm busy with her, I'm breastfeeding her, I'm I'm stuck here. I need you to get me these six things, please. And imagine if I had no help whatsoever. If I were a single mom and and whatever, I'd have to do all that on my own. It'd be so, so, so much harder.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

So I have extra respect. I I said it to you recently, single parents and obviously single mums um especially, but single parents can go both ways. Yeah. How difficult this process could be when there's no one else supporting you.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

So it's really emphasized to me how important it is for you to have what you know, they always say it takes a village. It's true. Even if that village is one person or two people, that is that's so huge. And not only do I have you who's around all the time, I also have my parents who live very close by and come over probably four or five days a week. Even if it's to drop off food and to give her love and check on me really briefly, and then they leave. Yeah. It helps, it all helps. And because of that, I think I'm doing a lot better than I otherwise would be doing.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Yeah. So you've touched on it briefly, but how are you finding sleep?

SPEAKER_03 46:25

Yeah. First two nights, not great. Yeah. Uh as many of you know, newborns cluster feed in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

And I didn't know this. I didn't know the extent of this.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

So, and because they don't have their circadian rhythm set in stone yet, they'll often be very awake during the nighttime and they'll they'll feed and then five minutes later they'll want to eat again. And then you put them down, then 15 minutes later they want to eat again. And so the first night, I think I was up until past 5 a.m. Because she kept waking up to hungry and etc. Uh, and then the second night I was up until 7 a.m. I think, and I was at already at a breaking point because I had the doula was coming, post-program doula was about to come over shortly, and I was like, I'm I can't go I I basically have pulled an online or I can't go into another six hour stretch with someone in our home on zero sleep. I I I was I was about to panic, and then you took over. I ended up getting like two hours of sleep at night, and then since then uh you have taken most of all nights since then.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Yeah, so I I said to Sohi that I would do nine months kind of joking, but I said I owe you nine months of sleep because she slept so badly through the whole pregnancy. Oh my god, yeah, it was pretty common for her to wake up five, six times to go to the bathroom. And I was like, even without labour, even without pain, even without all of the things that your body's going to go through, you have slept terribly for nine months. I feel like I owe nine months of exclusive nights. So I said, when she is born, I am going to do all of the night feedings. And I did say, obviously, there are caveats to that. So for example, if Sophie's breastfeeding, I can't do that. But if she is pumping and I can use a bottle, I would do all of those. And it has the the first two nights because you weren't breast pumping, that's why I couldn't help. That was but now I'm we've we're we're figuring out a system.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

I will say obviously we're still tired, but I'm getting better sleep than if you obviously were not around. Your sleep is not great right now. I would like for us to come to a system where we can split the nights eventually, even though you're insisting that on not doing that, I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

So one of my friends, when he heard that I said I was going to do all the nights for nine months, and the nine months thing is a kind of a bit of a joke, but also semi-serious, he said it's a really terrible idea because you have no idea how tired you're going to be doing all of them. Yeah. And I was like, but that's kind of the point. You have done this for nine months, you have carried our child, you have had all the aches and pains that pregnancy brings, plus labor, plus childbirth, plus childbirth recovery. To me, that seems like a really trivial thing to say, okay, well, I will be sleep-deprived for nine months. So my Apple Watch tells me the worst night's sleep I've had is under three hours, but I've had a couple under four hours or whatever. But to me, I just think I think this is my my turn to do things to pay you back for what you have been through.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

Oh, you don't have to pay me back like that. But I will say we definitely have the privilege of having flexible schedules and working from home. Cause I know for a lot of fathers, even if they wanted to do that, if you have a long commute and you work long hours at an office or an in-person job, that's not really something that you can risk doing.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

So I completely understand that. With that said, you are still quite tired. I'm still tired, but less tired than you are. And we're learning as we go, we're figuring things out, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Uh, next question. Someone asked you to talk about bounce back culture.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Yeah. Okay, so there's this idea amongst a lot of women that as soon as you give birth, you're expected to snap back into your pre-pregnancy shape or even get into better shape than you were before. That's not a concern to me. Now, anyone who knows my stuff, my content, knows that I have not been prioritizing physique goals or weight loss personally for years and years and years. That still holds true. Right now, my priority is my recovery, is eating enough calories to support all the breastfeeding that I'm doing and making sure that she's healthy. To me, there's no room in there to worry about what my body looks like or at what rate it's changing, or if it's if it's going back, if it's losing weight fast enough, none of that. I don't want to worry about that. I feel like I have a lot on my plate as it is. Whatever's gonna happen with my body size, with my body weight, it's gonna happen. I think it's interesting to see how it changes over time, but not from a perspective of my expectation and my hope is that it's gonna shrink and shrink and shrink. It's more, oh, that's oh, that's very interesting. This is what happened while I was breastfeeding, but I have neutral feelings about it. So I don't I have no my body's not ever gonna go back to the way that it was before because my body is fundamentally different now. It is.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Am I allowed to have an opinion on this?

SPEAKER_03 51:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

So the reason why I ask is because I think a guy having an opinion on female body bounce back culture is obviously a uh hot topic. I have seen a lot of people on the internet so say a mother has gone through birth and then they post photos saying they have bounced back and they have their pre-pregnancy body, and I feel kind of ambivalent. I think a woman is allowed to do whatever she wants. I've never really thought about it, but I've always noticed in the comments it has a very mixed reaction because so many people don't like that kind of content, and I do understand and I do resonate with that. So as I have seen front and row seat, what you have been through, the idea that you are supposed to kind of bounce back to where you were before, in some ways, I find a little bit insulting for the process that you've been through because you're not the same, your body is not the same, your body has been through something very traumatic, and there are things like abdominal separation or stretch marks or the bleeding that has come and pelvic floor changes and the stitches and and all of that stuff. And I think the whole have you got back to where you were before, in some ways it feels a bit like you're trying to gloss over how your body has evolved and what it's been through, trying to wipe the slate clean rather than yes, I have scars or yes, I have stretch marks, and I don't know. I think the bounce back culture makes me a little bit uncomfortable because I hate the idea that women would feel pressured that they need to go back to where they were before when they're a mother.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

I think having been through it through pregnancy and childbirth now, it makes me really sad to see that kind of content, especially when I feel like people are commenting on, oh, you still look pregnant even though you gave birth a few weeks ago or whatever. It's so to me, I'm thinking, why is that the thing that is interesting to you?

SPEAKER_00 53:56

I do very, very much feel that especially on Instagram, if it's a video or photos. Of course, it makes sense that you are only looking at the physical exterior aesthetic changes. But I just think out of all the things that people could be talking about with a new mother, to me it just seems a bit odd when you're basically comparing a body fat percentage pre-um post-pregnancy.

SPEAKER_03 54:16

Focusing on bounce back culture to me feels so trivial compared to why are you not in complete awe of what your body has been through? The fact that it grew and birthed an entire human being. And of course your body's different. Of course, your body is going to be completely different now. Let's have a bit more respect for that process, and not everyone's timeline is gonna be the same for how it's gonna change, if it's going to change, but I would think that I can focus more on my priority, is practicing healthy habits. No matter what my body looks like, I have to be healthy. Yeah, and not only for obviously my well-being and her well-being, she I want to be a good role model to her. I don't want her to grow up with a mom who's obsessed with the way that her body looks. I don't want her to grow up with a mom who speaks poorly about my body, my body size, and other people's body sizes. And so, if anything, I feel like I feel that much more strongly about I am not about that life. We're not gonna do that in this house. We're not gonna have any kind of diet culture talk, nothing. And she's gonna grow up protected from that as much as possible. Yeah, that's how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

Yeah, so final question from this section before we go on to the final section, is how is everyone's mental health post-birth? It's nice because that factors me in. And is there any postpartum depression? Separate questions, but same question. I think I would say I was nervous to put this in there because I don't know how much you wanted to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 56:00

It's okay. I will say, you know, I overall I I felt a level of happiness and fulfillment that I didn't have before being her mom, which still feels well to say. Even when I'm gonna go to the doctor and they call her name and I go, Oh, I'm her mom. It's really cute. I'm like, I'm a mama, I'm a mother. I love that. I love it's it's incredible to me for me to look at her and say, I made you inside me. You're half me and half the person I love the most in this world.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

You stay. I'm not the person who love the most in this world anymore.

SPEAKER_03 56:39

So I will say I feel very fulfilled at the same time. I do think I have a little bit of baby blues. I wouldn't call it postparum depression. Is it gonna drop? Is it your gonna drop? Thanks for your purple cloth, baby. I think I have a little bit of baby blues, and I think it's very intermittent. It's not every day, it's not even every other day, and it's quite brief, I would say, but I do I've had several moments where I feel very, very sad. And I would look at you and I say, I don't know, I can't explain what is making me sad. All I know is that I feel sad and I feel like I need to cry. And uh thankfully, you know, you've no surprise created a very safe space for me to express that and feel what I need to feel, and obviously it has nothing to do with how I feel about being a mom or how I feel about having her with me. I love her death. But the your body's going through incredible changes, huge changes, and I think that can be really hard sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

Is there anything specifically that you feel sad about?

SPEAKER_03 57:40

Nothing s really specific. I think last time I said to you, as much as I love my new life, it's also a huge change, it's a big adjustment, and even though I knew it was coming, it can still feel really hard. You know, even things like obviously you're not gonna be able to do everything that you like to do before. Everything takes longer, you have less time and energy left to do other things outside of taking care of your baby and keeping the baby alive and sanitizing bottles and doing laundry and things, all of that stuff takes time. It it it feels hard.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

We're we're only three weeks in, and obviously there's a learning curve. I think for people who aren't parents, because some people did say, I am expecting a child soon, I would love to hear your unfiltered thoughts. One big thing that I would say, which I've heard parents say, is how much longer everything takes. That's true. So, for example, this morning we're going to give her a quick bath before we do this podcast prep, and we give her a very quick bath, and then we need to change her again because she spits up everywhere, and then we go downstairs, and a little while later she spits up again, we have to change her, or then you have to get changed, or I have to get changed because it's on my clothes, and then I'm sanitizing bottles and getting milk ready to bring here in case she wakes up and she needs food, and before you realise it, an hour and a half has gone by, and you don't feel like you've got anything to show for it because all you've done are the the in-between things that you take for granted, like cleaning and having a shower. We we don't have anything to show for it. We haven't done any work, we haven't done anything, it's just getting everything ready. And I think that's one of the things that is always going to be more difficult, it's always going to be more of a change because you don't have your time anymore. It's always not your time, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

So that's definitely quite hard. And I feel like I'm constantly having to, which I know, I knew I would have to, constantly having to recalibrate my expectations of what I can get done. For example, this morning I would have wanted to do a feed post before coming here. That didn't happen for a myriad of different reasons, but I have to be okay with that, or else I'm going to be always very frustrated.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

And I don't want to be that person. And I understand also this is a season. This is not gonna last forever, and she's so freaking scrumptious. You can't even be mad about it. You can't even be mad about it. She's so cute.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

The final section that we have a few questions about parenthood, which kind of uh flows on from what you were just discussing. But what has surprised you the most about parenthood so far?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

It's what you said, it's how long things take to do. For example, if I feed her, then I have to pump, then I have to let's say you're busy and I need the bottles for later on, I have to clean, then sanitize and dry them, then I have to uh do a load of her laundry, then I do this other. All of a sudden two and a half hours have gone by.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

And you're like, oh, well, my window for doing this other thing has come and gone, and it's now evening. I think even the day's done.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

I think last night or the night before, when you said I'm going to breastfeed her a little bit and then I'll put her to bed. But even that That took two hours or whatever. Yeah, and that m I don't think it makes sense to people who aren't parents, probably, because I wouldn't even really understand it. And even saying it, I don't really understand it. But you can feed her and then she stops, and then she starts crying, and then you realise that she's not done, and then you have to change her nappy or diaper, and then she's still crying so you need to feed her again. And especially in the early days, if you're not a parent, one thing that I would say is your baby essentially has one really abrasive alarm system, regardless of the reason that the alarm is going off. So sometimes she will be screaming, and it's very hard hearing your child screaming and and wailing, and you just is she hungry? Does she need changing? Is she tired? Does she need burping? And you have to kind of do these things, but you're basically just listening to her cry, trying to work out, and it's it's a painful thing to hear your child crying, and you can also feel a little bit futile when you're not quite sure what it is, because if you're upset about something and you're like, I'm upset, I'm hungry, you feed, and then you're fine, but she's just crying and you're like, Well, we've just fed you, we've just changed your nappy, we don't know what it is. Oh, she's hungry again, or whatever. So by the time you feed her and change her diaper, and then feed her again and change her diaper again, and it's like, Oh, suddenly an hour has gone and we're still waiting to go to bed.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:23

Yeah. And the other thing that surprised me is I feel like my concept of time is completely out the everything goes by so much faster now, even more than before.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

I I said that this period is kind of like that few-day period, depending on your religion, between Christmas and New Year, where the days merge into each other and all the rules go out of the window because there have been some days where I have been up since 5 a.m. There have been other days where I have slept until 11am just because sleep schedules are all over the place. Sometimes you will have to do more breast pumping in the night, for example. Sometimes I will do the feeding, sometimes you sleep better, sometimes you sleep worse or whatever. But I just feel like any daily schedule that we had before just gets obliterated.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:14

Yeah. So the fact that we're even sitting here recording the podcast and she somehow managed to sleep through the entire thing, I'm very part of the reason I'm speeding up because this was always going to be a risk. But oh, and the other thing I want to mention that really surprised me, I did not expect breastfeeding to be so not straightforward. It is not simple. It is not baby's hungry, you feed him, and that's the end of it, and you repeat. No, very quickly, I I realized I need a lactation consultant, ASAP, because there is so much conflicting device on the internet, and this is not this is actually making matters worse for me. And I need a personalized, clear protocol so I don't have problems. And I don't develop mastsitis very quickly. Yeah. That was a surprise.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

Are you producing milk? Are you producing enough milk? Are you producing too much milk? Are you going to need to pump to relieve it?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:05

Are you going to how often are you doing it? For how long? Which sides? This and that. Are you doing warm compressor before? Are you doing ice packs after? What are your flange sizes for the five?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:14

I was just about to say how many millimeters of the circumference on the flanges that attach to your boob?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:22

So much to learn. Yeah. So that was not I was not expecting that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Next question is how has having your daughter shifted your priorities?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

This is one you can answer too. I feel like. At the same time, I really love what I do for work and I would like to keep that going. And we're in the middle of trying to figure out what that's going to look like. Obviously, as she grows out of the newborn phase and whatnot, we'll have to continue to adjust. But I really love what I do for work. I think I would be a happier mom if I can keep that up.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

And also keep up, eventually get back to lifting several days a week, hopefully get back to running in time and whatever. If I can do all those things, I will be I will be able to show up as a better parent.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:19

But I also feel like I'm so excited to have let's take her to the park on the weekends and spend time outside with her. And I think the way that we'll spend our downtime is gonna look very different.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Yeah. I had some really nice messages from people who said things like, Would love to hear your birth story, but only if you feel comfortable sharing and take your time because we are still very soon after having a newborn, and a lot of people take time, they have maternity leave, which we don't have because we are both our own bosses. Yeah. And one thing that I think is difficult, there's obviously swings and roundabouts, but we don't feel like I don't feel like I can have that much time off because I don't earn a Enough money to say, Oh, I'm gonna have six months off and just stay at home looking after her, which I think is hard in some ways. Neither of us can do that, and priority-wise, she is obviously our world, you are my world, and collectively you two together are my universe. It would be nice if that was all that I did, and simultaneously it's kind of hard that only a couple of weeks afterwards I'm like, I need to still earn money because I have to provide for her, I want to provide her a nice life, and obviously that is a dilemma that pretty much everyone on the planet goes through. Very few people are just I can afford to be parents and scrap everything else. Um, but I that's something that I find difficult because she is super high up my priority list at the top between both of you. But you can't just devote everything to being a parent and nothing else because, like you say, you have to consider your own sanity if you feel good about working, if you have other hobbies and other things, it's good for your mental health, which means that you're a better parent, but also you have to provide for your family. So priority-wise, I haven't yet figured that out, I don't think, but I know where it feels like she is on my priority list.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

Yeah. That is a good segue to our last question. Is how how is it trying to find a routine with a newborn?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

There is none.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:23

That I feel like you're not gonna have a routine when you newborns don't have a routine, they don't have a set sleep schedule or anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

I said in a previous episode, I think, that one of the things I was most nervous about is I'm I'm very much a man of routine. I like waking up roughly around the same time. I tend to eat the same breakfast most days, I like to exercise around the same time of the day, I like to the bulk of my work at the same time every day. I'm very much a creature of habit, and I knew this would be hard because my brain can unravel if I can't stick to my routine.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:53

A couple things you'd like to tick the box.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

I like to get up and be like, okay, I'm gonna have breakfast, I'm gonna do my work, I'm gonna do my workout, and then I tend to relax later on in the day, but I'm very strict about mornings, and mornings have just been eaten up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

I think what is nice though is that you have been able to keep up your minus the days we were in hospital, you've been able to keep up your workout, albeit shorter than normal. You're still doing it, which I think has been really good for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

Yeah. I mean, part of that is I think one of the things that guys especially need to be aware of is that especially with breastfeeding mothers, but you have already become more of a default parent because there are things that you can do that I physically can't do. Yeah. And before labour, I posted on threads: does anyone have any advice for new parents? I want to be the best father that I can be. And I remember a lot of guys said, just be there for your wife when she's breastfeeding, get her things, refill her drink, see if you're gonna have to be a good one. Which has been a huge help, yeah. Which I have done, but I still feel like an accessory, which in some ways is kind of difficult because even in that newborn prep class, she said that some dads will struggle more so to bond with their child because they aren't as involved in the process. So, say the first couple of days she's attached to you almost all of the time, and I'm there running around getting drinks and getting snacks and checking that you're okay. I'm not with the baby, but I'm not doing as much with her as you are, and in some ways it's kind of hard because I want to be as involved physically as as you are, but I think it's also important to be cognizant of that because if you're not careful, you're there doing the breastfeeding, and you're doing so many things for her, and I am just sitting at the sideline rather than doing the things that you need. So it's it's been difficult kind of having a supportive role, but I think it's important that the supportive role is as supportive as possible because I totally understand why it would be easy for mothers to feel like I'm doing this alone and I'm not getting the help that I need.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:10

Well, I think you're doing great, and I think I'm gonna get a lot of help. I'm trying. So I know it's it's hard for both of us, and it would still be much, much harder if we didn't have each other, if we didn't have my family nearby, if we didn't have friends checking in on us, everything like that. And yes, it's hard, but I think we're doing a good job. And as hard as it is, I am really enjoying it. Yeah, I agree. And I love being a mom.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

Final two questions. Who cried most in hospital? You did. I was gonna say you, me or baby, but that was a fast answer.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:51

It was when you saw her about to come out of the birth canal, my birth canal.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

So I actually cried more, but I was trying not to let you see. But when I was so mesmerised by everything you were doing, I got quite teary early on, and there's I think a photo of that. And then when the nurse said, You can see her, do you want to look? There's something about seeing your daughter for the first time. All the times that we said, Can't wait to meet her, we're so close to meeting our baby, and hearing, you can see her head. Do you want to see your daughter? How would that? I don't understand how that that couldn't make someone cry. Yeah, I cried. Normally, I would say you cry more than me. If we watch a film and there's a sad film, you're higher than I am. Oh, yeah. You were pretty busy, you were pretty focused.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:39

Throughout the pregnancy, I definitely cried a little way, way more.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

But what watching you do it and being able to see her coming out was um incredible. It will get me in the feels for the rest of my life, to the point that I think talking about it will make me emotional for the rest of my life because it was so amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:59

Final question is for you. Someone is curious as to your take on supporting me through childbirth.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

Someone said online, don't ask your wife questions, just do it. So if you if you wonder if she's going to need a drink, just get the drink. And I was like, I can do that, that's super easy. But I realized I still had to ask you if you wanted to drink it because all I was doing was refilling your water bottle and then it was nearby. But when you're in labour and you're pushing, occasionally I would just put a water in front of your face. But if I kept pushing it in front of your face, that would have been annoying as well. So I'm like, Do you want to drink? Like that. It's I don't really feel like I have any any good advice.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:47

I have advice as the I don't know what I don't person giving birth.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:52

I don't really know. I can't think of anything I did where I'm like, you should do that necessarily. I just feel like I didn't have a big thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:57

I would say if you're supporting your partner who's giving birth, stay very calm.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:02

Stay there, be there. Don't complain about how uncomfortable XYZ is.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:08

I wasn't even going to mention that because I You'd be surprised. Yeah, I have I have seen a bit of a running theme online with occasionally, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm tarring them all the same brush, but some guys will complain about the process. For example, we know someone who said their husband was arguing over who could use the phone charger and things like that. Get out, and that just I literally said get out, divorce, immediate divorce. I can't really think of anything I did that that was so special that I think is worth relaying. I just think if it was the other way around, what would you want? I would want you to be there. I wouldn't expect you to go home. I would think you would have to be a little bit more. You are having the privilege of witnessing the person you love most in the world give birth to the new person you love most in the world act like it and care as much as I think a normal person should hopefully care about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:08

And that should be the norm, but it's not.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:11

Yeah. So this has obviously been a very personal episode. In some ways, I feel like this was a little bit too soon because I didn't want to put you on the spot and ask you questions and make you cry, but we have now shared the story. This this is the debrief. This is like watching the movie, and you have the debrief afterwards. And we will get back to regular scheduled programming.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:33

I will also say, as hard as childbirth was, I would do it again if it meant we got her in the end. Yeah. I would do it ten times over. Yeah. It was very worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

But not eleven. There's your overall. It was very worth it. I would do it ten times over.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:48

I really love being a mom.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:50

Yeah. Well, thank you all very much for listening. Hope it's been entertaining as Sohi talks about the biggest moment of her life.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:59

See ya later.