Ep23. Fat burning workouts, fits & dead battery

Join Laura 'Biceps' and Sarah Bevan as they share their weekly updates, insights on women's health, fitness routines, and industry trends, all delivered with humour and honesty. This episode covers training routines, body image, nutrition science, and the evolving landscape of women's health in fitness.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Fit for What Podcast
03:18 Post-Marathon Reflections and Upcoming Goals
06:40 Training Updates and Personal Goals
10:23 Coaching Experiences and Challenges
12:41 Emerging Research in Women's Health
18:15 Addressing Women's Health Issues
22:17 Critique of Fitness Industry Language
24:30 Understanding Fat Loss and Body Composition
32:33 The Impact of Nutrition on Fitness Goals
37:24 The Role of Confidence in Fitness and Appearance

 resources

Lift Yourself by Laura 'Biceps' - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lift-Yourself-Training-Getting-Feeling/dp/0241385911
Gatorade Women's Hydration Research - https://www.gatorade.com/women-hydration
VivoBarefoot Shoes - https://vivobarefoot.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello, and welcome back to Fit for What, a no-nonsense evidence-based take on health, fitness, and wellness. With humour, honesty, and some practical advice to help you build your fittest year yet. My name is Laura, and if you have not got the programme yet, I am a PT, do some other things, do a bit of jujitsu, uh, very passionate about many topics, including uh women's sport, women in general. Just passionate about women, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Passionate about birds. Lovely. My name is Sarah. I'm a women's health coach, PT, and I am in desperate need of a fake tan. We've both decided this footage is going nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

We're gonna see the behind the scenes of this. I look absolutely dreadful. I've just been beaten up by 20 birds in jujitsu. And and Laura, just compare my roots to an Alice bat. I can't lie. You know, you know when you can tell someone directly, you don't need to go, well, you've not your best. I can say, no, that is dreadful. You've looked better. That's bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

And I'm kind of on the fence. I'm like, do I just let the bleach life go? But I don't think I can. I don't think I'm ready to be a natural girl. I just I've always been a blondee. I mean, these I can't even look at myself. I might have to like minimise my camera because it's bad, but um yeah, I just think I'm committed to the the dying life now.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Like I like your blonde. I I think overall, because you are fair and you're blonde anyway, I like it, gives the overall vibe of blonde and your roots. I think you call them roots, I think they look great. Uh others could just call that balayage up to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Balayage, yeah. I think I'm gonna, I don't know. I need to just wash it. Let's washing will be the first port of call, and then we'll take it from there. That's where I would go.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

If I were you, that is where I would go. And what I will say about this um pod record is I so I'm in a cupboard, basically. Sarah's uh in in bed. Um I'm I'm recording in a in a cupboard um and I've not brought my charger. So depending on how well this battery life lasts, will depend on the length uh of this podcast today. So yeah, zero out of ten for um preparation from me. I genuinely I I have to take so much stuff in my bag to jujitsu. It's like and I also forgot I forgot a top for jujitsu, so it was okay. Yeah, but it's fine. It was the girls' session, so I was alright. Um but yeah, I just forgot everything today. It just gives tells me everything that I need to know about where I'm at uh this week. We are here in May. We have we have got nearly towards mid-year, and I can he believe it. Oh my gosh. But yeah, when you say it like that, yeah, it's mad loyal. We're coming up to H2, H226, um, which is wild. But it's been, I would say, for me, a fantastic week. I feel focused, I feel on job, I feel like I I'm just cracking on with things, I'm getting stuff done. I must say that for me, the overarching feel is a bit of relief post-marathon, and I speak to a lot of people is like when you work up to something, even at a mutual friend of ours, Afa, who is doing the Iron Man, half Iron Man uh, I can just see it in her. Once you've pass that peak training, it's like oh, I can relax, I've done the work, and and now I need to deliver. So I've I've delivered now, and although it, you know, I go, Oh, I've got an ultra in a few weeks, I've done the work for that as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, I know you just seem more relaxed for it.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

You just seem like I feel it, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah, you yeah, you do a hundred and even like the ultra, like I think because you're doing it with a lovely friend as well, and you just there's more knowns, I think, this time. I think you just know it's gonna be it's gonna be when you're meant to be awake time-wise. Yeah, you can feel poppy, you can sleep well.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Ultras are like eating competitions, it's like you can eat actual food, there's no there's no rush, the terrain will be a bit all over the place. Terrain's terrain, yeah. Terrain have to like panic toilet and puke in the middle of the night in a portaloo that's open. Do you know what I mean? So, like the vibes are gonna be different, it's gonna be nice, it's gonna be more of an adventure, but yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing that observation because I feel it. Um, you just yeah, good vibes, you're just very puzzly vibes. Thank you. I know I I do I do feel good. I feel um also uh the there's a lot going on work-wise for me, which I don't always share. I know we make a joke that most of the internet thinks I don't actually work. Um I do, I'm I'm always working, but for me, when I I'm very good at saying, right, I'm gonna fit this it. So for example, in I've been in the office twice this week and I've run 5k in the office twice this week. Now, my view is you can get stuck talking shit. Well, positive, it's it's good to interact with people, obviously, it in any capacity, but you can get stuck talking shit about nothing by the kettle for half an hour. I'd rather in that lunch break, so I don't sit down and have a normal, you know, in the natural break of lunch, I'd rather just get out and and do 100% and you know, I've got 10k banked, I've got to do a bit more of a run this week. I'm running with Mel C on the weekend. Um, yeah, we are. Yeah, so whenever you're listening to this pod, you may be listening to this pod Sunday night, Monday morning, or or during the week or post the event. Um, the plan is that I'm going for a run with Melanie C from The Spice Girls with Sarah, and we are beside ourselves about it.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

I keep referring to her, I'm like, I'm going, everyone's like, What are you doing this weekend? I'm like, Thank God you've asked. I on Sunday I'm going for a run with Sporty Spice, and everyone's so impressed.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

So I need to update you on the conversation today. So I got a text saying, Would could I dress in all pink on Sunday because there is a Spice Girls shoot and they need a baby spice. And I've no skinchies, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Absolutely, and you've got you've got some pink. I'm sure you've got I'm sure you've got a few bits of pink in that wall.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

I've got loads of pink, I'm I can head to toe pink. Not a problem. So yeah, I'm really I'm really excited for that. But it it's it's been a good week. Um less travel this week, which is nice, less picture. I'm just you know, I'm back to jujitsu, which is really nice for me. I I'm really a uh a girly of structure and routine. Yes. I like I need to have a goal to work towards to really kick me up the arse. Um, and my current goal, so I've trained twice at um a gym in Vauxhall called Sleven, uh, that my friend Nick, or also known as Snick, Slevan, uh he I've trained with him and I've got back to just some structured strength training, and my god, it is humbling. I am I I think I said last week I'm deadlifting my clean weight or I'm squatting my old push press, so that's shocking. But never mind.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

But there's five baby steps, but what are you are you following anything in particular, or are you just doing the programming at the gym on your train?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Well, I I will follow a lower body six to eight rep programme. So I did sumo deadlifts on Tuesday, I did back squats uh yesterday, which was Thursday, um, and then loads of Bulgarian accessories, RDLs. I just I it's just the stuff that I love to do. I I I don't really get in my head too much about sets and reps, I just do something at intensity. Uh and my ass has certainly told me I hit intensity yesterday, so I I I I was um my I left my ego at the door um and I paired up and I just thought, you know, I'm gonna move well, I'm gonna hit good range, uh, and whatever weight that tells me is RP eight and a half, cool, I'll do it. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Oh, nice week then.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah, no, we've had a yeah, brief this.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

I mean, obviously, we had the bankie, so that made the week feel a little bit more condensed, but no, I feel the same. I mean, I'm I'm I'm aware of where I am on my cycle, that's for sure. But I've actually had a really, really positive week as well. Yeah, second coaching day yesterday, definitely hard work still, just getting used to kind of working, uh coaching five classes in a day, it's just an adjustment. Um, but loved it, and I feel like I'm just learning things, it's just getting used to like, as we talked about on the last um pod, like playlists and timings and stopwatches and all that kind of stuff. Like, I I'm not a natural maths or numbers person, and I find like different timers on different sections of workouts actually really hard. Like I'm not very good with that kind of calculation. So like what as an example so for example, say yesterday's block, part A, there was you kind of split the team in half, half of them doing a every one minute 45 seconds on the emom vibe. So they're starting off on every 145. In my brain, I'm like, how the hell do I do that? How do I what is 145 plus 145 in time in time metrics? And then the other team is doing a em. So, like my brain, I especially at 6 am in the morning with no coffee, I was like, oh, but by class two, I've got it down. I've got my little bit of a few.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Oh, yes, yeah, yeah. But everyone was everyone was very forgiving though. They were like, yeah, that felt a bit quick at some points, but we got through it, and I think to some extent, as a coach, you can just muddle through it most times. I was like, but yeah, no, that was really good fun. Everyone's really friendly, it's so funny though, blessed. Because obviously, I've met like 60, 70 people last week, and just like I think on an element of kind of fight or flight the whole time, I was like, hi, hi, like trying to remember all these names, and then bless some people coming back yesterday. I was like, I'm so sorry, I have no idea what your name is. Please can you remind me? And then I was I've even like that now. I think I'm picking people's names up. It's just really good vibe. So that was really a positive to the week. Um, been training well myself, went to our lovely friend Ola's class on Tuesday, that was quite high intensity actually. Did a little run. I've not run this week, but obviously we I know we've got our run on Sunday, so I'm holding holding on to that one. Um with Mel C, of course, you know, just you know, just just uh just a Sunday run with Mel C. Um but good vibes, yeah. I'm feeling positive as well. I'm feeling really positive as well. Got some big stuff going on um in our in my personal life as well, which is exciting. I won't kind of keep some things private, but um, yeah, that's there's some there's some like great progressions going on in my life as well. So just great vibes, really positive vibes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

That's lovely, good stuff. All around of um timings in gym classes. Well I had an experience, I went to a class uh this week, um, it was a new one, and I it was supposed to be four minute rounds, and I knew by the end of it that the coach had messed up timings and couldn't knew they realized they couldn't fit it all in. So what they were they were calling out, two minutes left, halfway. And I was thinking that was no way it was two minutes, and then they were like to out of ten seconds after the two-minute call, it was 45 seconds. I was thinking, and I it drove me insane in my head. Oh really? Yeah, drove me insane in my head, and obviously it's not that deep, doesn't really matter, you laugh it off, but yeah, it's just one of those things where you know as the coach, you know, I I the best examples when I used to coach a treadmill class, um dual format, floor and tread. And if you are sprinting at max effort for 30 seconds, and I go that you're gonna know you cannot let them hang for two more seconds, otherwise you are receiving appropriate daggers, and and they'll they'll remember that. So, yeah, timing timing is uh so so important. Um also hard to um yeah, hard as a coach to yeah, you just want to be there, you know, doing the real stuff, which is doing coaching, building the rapport. It's like, oh god. So yeah, maybe you set yourself up little timers. Your timer in the gym, that visual timer.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah, well, we've got one on the wall on an iPad, but I was in a different studio yesterday morning, which hasn't got an iPad, so I just know to bring my own iPad next time. So it's just like little things like that, you know, like two weeks in now. I feel like by a month's time I'll be like, this is all good, but no, I'm just really it's just really nice, like I'm just really enjoying it. I feel like I'm like re-sharpening a skill that I actually really really enjoyed doing a few years ago. So no, it's good, it's really it's just fun, and it's just good to be challenged as a coach as well, in terms of I'm now coaching such a variety of people. Um yeah, it's just really cool, and we got we've got had some pod listers in classes as well, so I had some lovely feedback on that. So, yeah, really positive vibes, and we had some great great stuff in the news this week as well. The um lovely lady, I don't want to get her name wrong, who um won that ultra marathon. That is incredible. Did you see how far? It's 253.3 miles, 39,000 feet elevation, madam. 56 hours she did that in. Is that not Rachel Entrakin? I don't I don't know if I'm pronouncing it correctly, but yeah, first woman to win that. And yeah, that was just I just there was some positive stuff in the news this week like that, and I thought, we're doing well, we're doing well, girlies.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yeah, absolutely. I did see that, and I just thought, yeah, running for that long is just absolutely I'm I'm just about I'm four and a bit weeks out of my first ever ultra, um, which is sort of blowing my mind uh uh a little bit. Um yeah, well we also saw London marathon uh demand is mental, so a record 1.33 million people applied to the marathon next year, which is up 18%. Um so yeah, more than double I don't think I've got much of a chance. More than double who entered in 2024. Um so yeah, yeah, no, no, people more people have to be running it through the night, like me. Um but yeah, absolutely wild, mental, unbelievable scenes um this week. What was the other thing that uh this week that I thought was absolutely fabulous? There, oh yeah, Gate uh a brand, American brand, Gatorade. Um Gatorade said that they are uh they've launched basically a campaign. I can see the consumer um value in them doing this as well, but they have launched a multi-year research commitment focused on women's hydration and nutrition science across life stages. I just think that's really powerful, and I love that someone who works for a brand who knows how difficult it is to have access to information and the way you know actual rooted in science, because I feel like the internet and social media and people run with you know stuff and thoughts and thought leadership so quickly, and then it's almost like if the brand isn't aligned with all of those thoughts, it's like oh god, they're so behind. But sometimes you do have to just wait and see because sometimes things do come across. Like I will use this as an example. Creatine, I think, is a fantastic supplement, and we talked about that a lot, but everyone's talking about the the cognitive benefits. What I will say, it is still emerging science, but yeah. There's there's there's good there's good understanding, and and people that are in the research field feel positive about it because of a few things and you know used in some sports and concussions and blah blah blah. But it is really emerging. So some of the legal claims are not quite there yet. So I think it's it's smart for a brand to invest, and I think there's a lot of emotional attachment because half of the world are women, and half of the world of women are are under-researched, as we know. So I think that's a smart uh to do. Um and and loads loads of investment in sort of women's technology, you know, there's yeah, AI, fertility coaches, yeah, um, you know, loads of different loads of different stuff that we're seeing. So yeah, um uh big up, big up the women, and also I saw as well this week, there's also lots of discussion around uh postpartum exercise or pre-postpartum exercise, which is something I think if you're a coach and you've been coaching women pre and postnatal for a long time, your your lived experience is that you know there is no rules on this. Women will train if they are well-trained women. My my hope is that they will train for as long as they can. Uh and it's just one of those things that you just think they will tell you, oh trust me, yeah, exactly when they can't do it. And and obviously guidance in terms of where you trimester you're in and and and how your core feels, but yeah, it it's great to see that women are encouraged uh to train for as long as they can and and post.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah, postly, yeah, and I think that's the same. Like, there's so many. I remember uh trained via pre- and postnatal trainer like six years ago, and I remember doing all, and it was so scary, you're like, you can't do this on trimester two onwards, you can't do this, and and all of this is now being basically mythbusted, like a lot of this stuff is based on old wives' tales and and stuff that we just isn't isn't factually correct anymore. And it's really nice to actually be able to present that scientific research to clients now who are potentially nervous about training. It's like, well, actually, the science is here to support you through this. Of course, the main thing is that you as a as a person feel comfortable doing whatever you want to do through pregnancy and with your with your um growing baby, but yeah, it's just really lovely, and I think there's more and more women that are seeing the importance of strength training. I see it even in the classes I'm now coaching. There's a number of pre- and post-natal women who can see the benefits firsthand of that kind of strength training and increasing heart rate, etc. So yeah, I feel like there is in there's an increasing body of emerging uh research, which is great. And obviously, it's great to see such a big company like Gatorade spending money in that field as well. So as much as we're still not there, I feel like there is funding is key, right? As long as there's funding going into that funnel, then I think we are going to see some progress over the next few years. And it's really exciting, selfishly, in terms of like the women's health business I'm building out. I don't have the answer to everything, nor will I ever. But it's nice that there's more research coming that I can actually be like, oh, well, why don't you have a look at this? Or why don't you why don't you read this and see how you feel about this yourself before making any decisions? So yeah, I feel I feel like we we are getting there. I was talking about uh with a a friend of mine actually over the over the week, she's building out a really, really cool women's health education platform, and we were just saying that it's it's it's a really good time to be in this. It can it's it's such a weird time to be passionate about women's health in so many ways. It's great and there's emerging information, but at the same time, there's so little, and it's that like constant tussle of like I'm really excited by this, but I'm also really bloody angry about all of the f the lack of stuff we have. So yeah, it's it's great to see class like that, and it's a good time to be a passionate woman about this as well, I feel.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah, 100%. And obviously, this is on the backdrop of conversation continues around GLP1 peptides. Again, it's not our area of expertise, but it very much does become our in our lane as personal trainers because we have to guide our clients who are uh going through it, and I think, yes, there's lots of uh great investment in in women's health, but it's like, yeah, you know, still what I believe we have a future if we don't do anything about helping more women strength train and understand proper nutrition, we've got a future of osteoporosis coming for us, and I agree, which is just not great for the girlies. And and and also uh, you know, we know we talk a lot about cycle syncing, tracking. I sent Sarah something uh this morning around something that I know Sarah struggles with uh I uh quite openly. I think I do, but I probably try and ignore it. But just you know, different mental uh, you know, different we experience different mental health throughout our cycle. Uh a lot many many women will attest to that. And uh, you know, it's like uh why why do I feel such a way about that? Why do I think I look ugly today and I didn't last week? It's like, well, yeah, this you know, our hormonal changes and and psychological symptoms of PMS and other actual diagnosable um uh things like you know PMDD, it's yeah, it's a whole thing, it's like a it's it's a mental illness, you know. So yeah, yeah. I think all of that needs to really be addressed as well because you know, in in the working world, these things do really uh impact us. So yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah, we're getting there. No, then that lady, I I'll I'll have to find out, I'll actually share her bio in uh show notes because she's a fantastic doctor. She that's what Laura sent me through. Basically, there's the first ever and only meta-analysis on PMS around kind of nutrition because I think and I I'm I've kind of been reading about it privately, and I think there's a lot of there's a lot of information out there, but Sally, not a lot of unchecked information kind of around nutrition and what you can take and what what would help stuff. But actually, this finding from this research that came out that only vitamin B6, calcium, and zinc have showed consistent benefits. Um, because there's a lot of talk around magnesium and and other supplements as well, but actually, only vitamin B6, calcium, and zinc in this study have been found to actually have consistent um impact. So, again, as a women's health coach, that's great for me to have that knowledge now. There's actually a vast volume of data that can show me actually, I can suggest to clients and myself look, if you try X, Y, and Z, there is there's science and there's stats behind this. But again, it's again, I think that's a really great study. The fact that there's been time and money poured into a study around that is is massive, and it's and it's something that I I'm really really excited by because before I think one of the only studies, and I don't this might even still be true, I have to fact check myself on this. The only um study that happened on endometriosis in the last period of time was like how attractive are women with endometriosis perceived by men, and it's just like that just sums up where. We are so we're we're making gains, we're making progress. So yeah, I and that lady's amazing. I'll share her stuff. I share a lot of her stuff on socials actually. I think she just she just seems to be quite quite on the money with it already, and she's very realistic. So shout out that doctor.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

100%. Love that. Um, just a quick battery update. I've got 11 minutes, so that's going it's going really well. One of the things that I wish to uh see the end of, and I don't think I ever will in my personal training career. Um, and potentially, if you are listening, you agree to this, or maybe you have similar thoughts, is I have had just about had it up to my tits with people selling pro programmes, fat loss exercise programs. Why honestly, uh like sometimes I just think, should I just go on Instagram Live and just rant? Maybe would anyone listen to that? I don't know, but I try I try to be in my and I don't mean this to be like you know, I'm being uh straight-laced or or too, you know, whatever, but I I try not to be too ranty on social media because I don't I don't really like listening to rants. I think you've you've got to find a way to sort of be better, and and you know, there's something you see on the internet that's shit, right? Well, don't spend all my time saying this is shit, just be be the better version that I I believe I should be, put out good information. But every now and again I see something and I think Jesus Christ. We all know what it means, we do, we get it, but I do think that whilst we continue using this language of fat-burning exercises, toning exercises, fat-burning programs, we're not actually helping anyone, we're not educating. And I just I I saw it uh something out on Instagram this week, and I was like, no, not again. So, like people, you know, if you are a fitness professional and you're listening, obviously you're probably nodding away, going, Yeah, I know, God, it's annoying. If you're someone that does go to the gym or participates in exercise, I genuinely think you could be training for years and still not quite understand the science behind body body recomposition, and that's okay because you're not that's not your job, it's not your job. I sound like Roy Keane. Do your job. It's like it's it's one of those things that there's been so much confusion, and it just really winds me up. And I see some people like with huge followings or people that I think, all right, you're actually doing all right. What are you doing? Because it's really good, mate. And it's you know, there there is no magic fat-burning workout, it's not spinning, it's not hit, it's not zone two, it's not you know, getting abs, doing your abs, it's that's not it either. Fasted cardio, nope, surprisingly, that doesn't do it either. That's our personal preference. And I just think, yeah, you know, we we understand fat loss happens when your body is in a sustained energy deficit over time, and you know, that it doesn't matter if you do a thousand star jumps or a thousand mountain climbers, both are shit exercises, in my view. Um you you've you've got to separate it. Fat loss is a goal that I am fully behind, and in many times in my life do I have a fat loss focus. I probably wouldn't call it a fat loss focus, it's more body recomp because personally I'm always interested in trying to gain a bit of muscle, trying to lose a bit of fat. I I would say most people want that, but they don't always understand. I think most people say I want to lose weight and totally naturally, yeah. So I so I do think there needs to be uh, you know, some fat loss needs a bit of a rebrand or or all because it it's basically a marketing term, a fat burning fat-burning exercise. And you know, we know that using fat during exercise is not the same as losing body fat. So there's some schools of thought that say if you are exercising at a lower intensity, your body could be using different fuel sources of fuel to deliver that energy. And we do know higher intensity training often can use more carbohydrates as fuel, which is why we know that if you are trying to, you know, be a Hyrux hun, but you're also interested in looking good, sometimes the two goals don't uh connect because you need carbohydrates to fuel the intensity and sustained effort. And I think that's why people really beat themselves up because it's like they want to look good but they want to perform, and it's like, well, if if you're not a professional athlete, how you know you don't have all the time in the world to do this, and I think I also had a text from uh someone this morning who uh they've got a shoot coming up, um, a fitness shoot coming up, and they they're not a professional fitness instructor, and they text me and they said, I've just got on the in-body, the uh which is bioimpedance, which gives you your body comp, it gives you your weight, which we all agree scales are scales, but what I don't always agree with is the body fat percentage because there's so many things that can impact though. And she said, I put on three pounds. Uh again, I'm thinking, okay, three pounds that could be a sneeze or a shit, up to you. And she said that my body fat's moved and my my muscles moved, and I haven't felt very well this week. Like, what do you think? So I was like, Okay, we need to take a breath, and it is it just breaks my heart, really, because I used to be that person, and Sarah maybe I used to weigh myself before and after I went on a run uh to see, and I and I I'd be mortified if I weighed more, and you know, this is before the days of sort of all these you know technologies that you can get your body fat, but it's such a mental, it's such mental fuckery, isn't it? I've been doing so well, and these numbers aren't saying what what I what I hope and it it just yeah, and then you go back to the marketing term of fat loss exercise and you think, oh, it's not wonder we're we're all we're all constantly upset with ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Yeah, it's so it's uh that term it just it just makes uh it just makes my like whole body like seize up. I just think it's such a it's such dangerous terminology, and I think it does boil down to that. I was thinking that when you kind of brought it up, that I think sadly for a lot of these coaches, it's a quick win, isn't it? It's a quick sell. It's everyone, everyone and their and their dog is gonna want to fat burn in some way. And you just think that actually that's such a it's just I've I've I've and I personally find the terms very triggering, and I I don't use the word triggering a lot either, but for me, I've had to step away from any kind of exercise where I thought I could be potentially bringing myself back to that place because yeah, fat burning, it's just that just isn't how it works, it just isn't how it works, and I just I kind of I feel like we were making so many strides pun the pun in the fitness industry times, and then you go onto Instagram and you see some influencer or even underqualified, not qualified at all for person in the fitness industry selling these shred guides or body blitz guides, you just think like well, like we're going backwards, we're genuinely going backwards, and it's just I think I I and I I it's weird, I don't sometimes I really don't align with the industry. I feel like there's such a there's such a conflict of interest within the industry as well, and obviously it's a big money-making machine. I think Sally it boils down to a lot of that as well. But it that that scientific terminology is incorrect, like you are not burning fat, and it's just yeah, yeah, I struggle with it, I I can't really go near it. It really, really bothers me. And yeah, I'm the same. I would love to go on Instagram live and just do a massive rant, but I'm just actually, it's just not worth putting the putting the energy into. It's they're not people that I'd work with, or even with clients, I've had clients in the past come to me saying, I really really want to burn fat. I want to kind of shred on my I'm not you I'm not the coach for you. I'm not I'm that's not how I work.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah, but you could still guide you could still safely and sustainably through body composition models. It's it's just I think for me, it's just the way people talk about it and the expectation of it happening really fast. It's the it's the it's the timelines and and what goes into it. I think you know, um we nutrition is our biggest lever for fat loss, and yeah, and and I'm all always, you know, obviously I I I I'm I'm not a a a doctor, nutritionist, blah blah blah. I'm a personal trainer. So people come to me with those goals, and unfortunately, and I will always be very honest, is that the the fitness is really important to you, but it's it's probably not the biggest lever at this point. If you have weight you need to lose or or improved your body composition, fitness can is an important part, but for different reasons than you think. Actually, nutrition and your lifestyle and your sleep is your greatest lever. So we know exercise, strength training that improves your your cardiovascular health, your strength, it improves your insulin sensitivity, which is obviously connected to your nutrition, how you digest things, how you feel, uh, how your hunger sensations uh it can improve your mood. So once you've trained, you may feel better about yourself, and then maybe you will make better choices for yourself. And obviously, you know, the work that we do in the gym, as we've said, muscle mass, it improves your body composition. The dietary control is, I think, psychologically harder, and it will create the biggest impact on the scale, which is what we know people and and our clients are looking at, and will create a greater impact on fat loss than exercise alone. In reality, we need both because I don't want someone just cutting, you know, you you need to be fit and healthy and strong for everything that comes for you. And it just for me, the industry, when we still use this language like fat-burning workouts or even just the fat-burning in itself, it just takes us a step back, and it we're not proactively helping people understand the importance of both. They should be treated separately but done together, together, yeah, and totally because they they you know they overlap so so much. You know, what yeah, what you eat before a workout has a huge impact on your ability to deliver the work, how you feel after, how you refuel, how you have that stimulus. So I you know, I I and I'm thinking about it a lot myself because I as a a a single uh lady, what is although I talk about what is very important is you know enjoyment and the gym and all of that good stuff, but I'm actually trying to attract an Adonis, and by attracting an Adonis in these, in these in this day and age, in these cold streets, you know, I want to feel good about myself. Yeah, I I want to look good. So it is all it is maybe on my mind more often than not. I wonder if it's my previous experience or the industry I'm in. I'm talking about it all the time. I'm relaxed, yeah. I do give myself I I've given myself grace, but I am thinking about it. I'm thinking I want to gain some muscle, especially after this marathon block. I feel like I'm not really, I don't look like myself in my head.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's so interesting, isn't it? And I think a mutual friend of ours, um Carl Wagland, shared a really interesting post actually the other day. I don't know if you saw it, she was talking about the fact that she's got clients coming to her who are putting so much work in in terms of both nutrition and exercise, but then they're getting disheartened because they're seeing friends of theirs who are taking GLP1s and losing weight instantly. And it's and I I was like, that's a really interesting perspective because as a coach, it's a really hard conversation to have. It's like actually, yes, your friend on the scale who's taking GLP1 may be making better progress in a verticomas, but she's not addressing all of these things you just mentioned very correctly: bone density, muscle mass, cognitive benefits, all the stuff that we know eating well and moving well does for us is being abandoned when you're just relying on an injectable, sadly. So I thought that was a really interesting perspective to bring, and I was really glad that she shared that actually, because it is it's a difficult conversation as a coach. Like your co your clients are coming to you if their goal is fat loss and they're not seeing that, but they're seeing their mate losing that instantly with a injectable. You can understand why that can maybe be quite conflicting in someone's mind. I'm paying X amount for a coach, but I could pay X amount for injectables. It's like, and yeah, I think for that reason, maybe that's why we're seeing that terminology of kind of fat burning coming up more in the industry because coaches are desperate to attract business potentially.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Maybe, and yeah, it's it's a tough one. I think it comes down to professional integrity. It's yeah, what do you want to be known for and just let your work do the sort of the talking? But I I I I do understand I've I've never been someone that's amended my message to be more clickbait-y. I'd rather lose followers over time or or stay where I am or whatever and just continue. Uh yeah, I just I I can't, I I couldn't personally, I couldn't personally do it, but I guess, yeah, that you know, we have to market ourselves somehow, and we do need to understand the needs of our clients and consumers and and what gets them through the door might not always, as I always say, might not be the reason why they stay with you. Hopefully, yeah after you know working with someone, you can help them change their perspective and and their goals. Because I know that my goals today are not what they used to be, and that's because I've learned and evolved, and I'm so much happier because I know better. So it's a it's a really tough one. It's a really tough one, and you know, I've we've both been doing this for many years. I actually got a a a memory on my Facebook. I've got a memory that popped up um for me that seven years ago um my I released the cover of my uh book, Lift Yourself. At the time it was like no one was really talking about strength training. And yeah, how am I gonna get people to be interested in this book about lifting for women? Because that's really frightening, and you're really massive, and not massive, but you know what I mean. It that was seven years ago, and we're still having this conversation. Although I do believe the evolution of women participating in strength training has been incredible, and what we look at as inspiring bodies is now far more diverse than it was. I I I really do.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

I agree, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

But you know, GLP1. I saw someone compare it to you know, someone going, Oh yeah, but she's on GLP one. It's the same as go, yeah, but he's on steroids. You know, it's like sometimes we don't know the full picture of how someone gets their results, and to be honest, we'll probably never know. Never know. I my my advice to myself and to anyone else is just vote, don't worry about uh it's really easily said than done, and I think age you know, as I get older, I I don't care as much. But it's like if I'm happy, I'm not worried about what anyone else is doing. You look at anyone else, no, agrees, and we should just be going, good for you. If does that make you happy? Good for you. Love that for you, Han. And whatever that is, I can't. Who am I to judge it? Um, because who knows how I'll feel or or the things that you know I'll want to do. By the way, we're doing really well for battery. I say this now. I've got loads of flashing red lights at me, guys, and it's nine minutes for ages. So we're we're doing we're doing well, but yeah, I hope you will agree with me that um fat burning workouts needs to go to room 101 immediately.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

I agree, I agree. On the battery front, shall we wrap it up today?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Or well, you no, I feel like we've got time for you to share your slump vibes. I think it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Yeah, well, basically I literally kind of coming on from that. I I realised for myself, I know as I said, I'm aware of where I am on my cycle this week, but I thought just feeling a bit slumpy, and I'm loving my training, I'm loving that. But I it actually really hit me the other day how much better I feel in the gym and when I'm training, when I'm wearing good fitness gear, when I'm feeling good. You're telling me like when I've got a good outfit on, I'm like, I feel great. And for me, it is this Lululemon. I think they're the wonder trains. I feel a little bit more, a little bit more lifted, a little bit more controlled. And I've got a really old Lulu sports bra. But there's something about an all-black outfit that fits well. When I've got a tan on, I must say the tan is always an additional for me, but I just train better as well. I definitely think that. And I was like, maybe that's funny. So I need to introduce some new bits into my wardrobe to make myself feel good again. But I think that has such an impact on how we fit in the gym as well, right? Like how you're dressed and what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

100%. But like you're talking to me who wears a full I my hair, it always looks the same because I get up, I have a bath in the morning, I wash my hair, I blow dry it every single morning of my life, and I put on, not for I don't put it on for jujitsu because my face ends up on everyone else's gi. But um, I usually put on a full face makeup. Now I don't you I'm not a I don't wear lots of makeup, but what I do wear is very consistent. Um obviously this is an audio podcast, but for those Sarah can see that I am looking one out of ten on the makeup front because it all just end up all over my face anyway. But I I always do, and I think that is because uh also working in the fitness industry, I wouldn't turn up to the office not looking or feeling my best. So the thing is my is my office, is my meeting, and I want to look good. So and if I arrive and I feel like I'm I'm looking good, feeling good, 100% I'm putting that in putting that into every exercise.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

I agree. No, I say, and I I kind of I think because obviously, when I was working in a gym full-time for the last couple of years, I'd always go to work with something on my face. I again for me, I was like, I am my brand, I'm I am my business. I wanted to, but I've noticed I think I don't know if it's like an act of rebellion, but I've just worn a lot less makeup this year, and obviously I'm not not engaging with as many people, so I don't feel we need to, but even when I've been coaching, I just put a little bit on a little, and I I'm lucky my skin has got so much better than it was last year. Um, but I always have something on when I'm coaching, and I think it's the same, and I thought actually, I definitely train better when I've just got something on my face, and obviously, this is totally personal to me. If you can go to the gym with no makeup on and feel great, amazing, like that is such a lovely position to be in. But I definitely perform better because I feel more confident in myself in that space as well. Um, and I was actually, I did a little a little bit of research on this because I was like, this can't just be me. And obviously, I know Laura well. I know Laura likes dressing well, she's always got her matching sets on. When also also side note, when Laura wears leggings, it's like we're seeing a different person. It's so funny. I remember when she used to come into the gym and I'd be like, is everything alright? Like, you've got leggings on, is everything alright? But always a maxi dress, and yeah, she's always got her her consistent makeup on. But yeah, there was um there's a little bit of research into it. Questionable on the um, I would say on the reliability of it, but there was an idea um created around this idea of enclosed cognition by a uh two guys called Hey Jo Adam and Adam Galinski in a 2012 research. And basically the idea of um women just well, not women specifically, but people feeling better when they put a uniform on um and kind of turning up to the gym in a uniform. You're gonna perform better and you're gonna feel better. And I was like, Yeah, I actually really align with that. I really see that. Um, and yeah, I just it made me realize maybe it's time for me to get smart, I think. Yeah, I need to I just need to glow up generally. I mean, I literally said I said I went downstairs this morning, I was like, no, we need to sort this out. This weekend is Mel C run Sunday. I said, Laura said to me, What are you doing Sunday? And I was thinking, nothing, I need to sort myself out, but anything for Mel C and then some something's gotta happen, some tan's got to happen. Even like my eyebrows, like my eyebrows are microbed for um those who don't know, but they need topping up.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

You know, I mean just feel a bit crusty, but yeah, I had to avoid that feeling at all costs. I'm constantly renovating. Like I've had my Botox done this week. Um, it was in desperate need. Yeah, it takes about five days, I would say, to kick it. Five to seven days to uh to settle, but yeah, I've been had to be out of the sauna for a couple of days to enable that to live its best life, yeah, which is really sad. Um, but yeah, obviously like hair makeup, but everyone says I'm I honestly think ten people have told me I've looked tanned in the last, but I I I swear to you near a sunbed or any uh or any fake tan, and I am very well stocked. My I'm very lucky that my friend Tom is the MD of Saint Tropez. That is such a flex. That is such a flex. Yeah, he's um yeah, he's he's actually my ex-commercial director at L'Oreal, and he keeps me really well stocked in. Stocked. Yeah, big Tom. So he um yeah, so I and I haven't used it, but I I do Oh my word, I'll be coming over to steal that then. I'm like, no, I need a tan in my life. I am, but yeah, I completely agree, fully aligned. The g let the girlies do what they need to do, wear the outfit, whatever makes you feel good. And also if a baggy tee and makes you feel good, I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yeah, I just I've seen all these girls with like these baggy short, and they look amazing, like with a little, a little short and then a baggy, a baggy tractor bottom and then a sports bra. I'm like, oh my god, I'm not even remotely cool enough for that. But they look fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

I'll end up looking like that.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

I think you I think you could know, I reckon you could do that. It's just and I look at women in the gym who've made the effort to go there, and I'm like, you look fantastic. And they they're literally like radiating confidence. I'm like, maybe I just need to take a bit of belief out of that, but I actually think that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

I think you can just see confidence and contentment, and when a woman is risks, you know, rather than a woman that's in whatever and just constantly rearranging.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Her clothes or oh honestly, when I've got a moose knuckle, I'm having the worst session ever. Like if I've got a risk of a moose knuckle, I'm leaving. I'm leaving the gym. I've got a so and all do yesterday. TMI, it's always TMI me. Had a thong on, had some, I think I just had my normal lines on, doing box jumps. Never ever again. That thong ended up through my penis. Many no, many times. Many, many times. So moose knuckles I would not recommend for the gym floor. Do you know?

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Underwear to the gym. This is I'm I must, I mean, I probably need to go some sort of diagnosis at some point. I'm like Ozzie Osborne with Levin Cal. I've got 20 pairs of the same Calvin Klein thong.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Do you not find the um the band? Are you got the smaller band ones? I find the bands too much under leggings. No, it's perfect. I I Is it?

SPEAKER_00 44:52

So I'm able to get 20 pairs of them. And then you're like Blooming Homer Simpson. Exactly. And then I've got 10 pairs of a Skim's thong. Ooh. And that is that is literally daily. That is like my uniform. Like my uniform. A Lululemon bra. I have over, I think I've got 12 to 15 pairs of black Lululemon align shorts, six inch. I've got five of the same Lululemon black bras. You should I have the entirety of Uniqlo now. Oh god, I love Uniclopedis and sweaters. Yeah, I just I just like what I like and then I repeat it.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Yeah, yeah, totally fair.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

I'll find a little way to mix something up or s or you know make something feel a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

But yeah, I like put an orange t-shirt on when you've got your iron supplements.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Exactly. What I will say is I've got a new pair of shoes into the mix and I've got to my vivo's. Uh uh what? I've got I can't show you because I'd have to really hoike my leg up and I'll I'm afraid I'll fall back. Please don't hurt you. No, please don't hurt. Yeah, I'm I'm in a I'm in a cupboard. Uh my battery is running low. You might want to plug in your PC. Okay, thanks for the advice. Um eight minutes. I'm really riding on a rare here. But I bought some new vivos. I'll post them on my on my Instagram at Is it Vivo Barefeet? Yeah, yeah, Vivo Barefoot. I love them. They are white pink. Yeah, I've got like five pairs at home. I just haven't worn them in eight. When I used to coach on the gym floor, that is what I used to wear because I didn't like what it's an audio podcast, but Sarah's gone bright red, pissing herself laughing at me. Obviously, I've got five pairs. What do you want from me? No, no, carry on, carry on. Continue. Yes, I'm very fortunate that yeah, they they they uh sent me a pair. So I've I've got these amazing shoes, so I now that's what I'm gonna wear now. Now that I'm back in my strength era, I'm gonna wear them to the gym. And I'll also with a calf gate, it'll just help strengthen my feet. I'm yeah training jujitsu. I don't know if you know that I train jujitsu, but you know, that's what I do. So I just I really like them.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

I get the benefits of them, I just can't subscribe to the look of them. I think I I have big feet for a small person, I just think I just look like I've got skis on.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

That is a you will use ski off. I'm happy in my vivos.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Oh no. Oh no, the podcast has ended. Laura has left the chat. Um, so I will end the podcast here by saying thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed our varied discussion today, and we look forward to welcoming your ear holes to our next episode. Lots of love. Bye.