How to Guarantee You Never Burn Out?

Nearly half (46%) of travel advisors feel more overwhelmed this year, and around one-third (32%) report active burnout. Over half say their workload isn’t sustainable, mainly due to client demands and industry pressures. (Travel Age West)

How do you know if you’re burnt out?
Chronic exhaustion
Loss of motivation
Irritability
Detachment
Declining job performance

Set boundaries with clients
Only about half of agents feel comfortable doing this—but it’s essential.
Cut back on touchpoints
Don’t share personal phone numbers
Limit itinerary revisions
Set minimum budgets
Set clear response time expectations

Take care of yourself
Take regular breaks
Stay physically active
Practice meditation
Maintain healthy screen habits
Invest in professional development
Use available benefits

Automate everything you can
Use workflow templates
Align processes (e.g., same final payment dates)

Practice gratitude
Writing down 3 positive things daily for 21 days can reduce stress and burnout—leading to less anxiety, better relationships, improved self-esteem, and even physical health benefits.

#HowtoGuaranteeYouNeverBurnOut #TheTravelAgentGuide #Podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Travel H West did this great article a few months back talking about burnout. And one of the things they mentioned was 46% of advisors reported being more overwhelmed this year than last year. I think it's amazing because we're seeing such growth in the industry, which is super exciting, but I don't think travel agents are really taught how to handle the growth in a way that serves them. What they're doing is I just work more and more and more hours. I mean, I have friends that are messaging me at two in the morning, and I'm like, you've got to set better boundaries for yourself. And this industry, it's so easy to just end up burnt out.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

One way to guarantee that you're never going to burn out is to set very strict boundaries between you and your clients. If you're listening to this, odds are you felt burnout and you felt it heavy. What I would say you do is step number one is really set strict office hours for yourself. Let your clients know when you're working and when you're not. Welcome to the Travel Agent Guide, the podcast pulling back the curtain on what it really takes to be a travel agent. We're talking real life, the challenges, the wins, the money, the mistakes, and the growth. Whether you've been in the travel industry for years or are new to it, we're in this together and you're exactly where you need to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Welcome to another episode. I'm super excited to talk about today because I read an article in Travel Age West that was basically explaining the ridiculous level of burnout in our industry. And it just started really resonating with me because so many people I've talked to just can't handle the workload. So here's the big promise today. By the end of this episode, you're going to be able to understand what you need to put in place today, not tomorrow, today, in order to prevent that. And if you're feeling burnout right now, which you probably are, you wouldn't hit play on this episode. We're going to help make sure that you understand look, this is step one, two, and three to not letting this industry ruin you. There are so many people working 60, 70, 80, 90 hours a week to try and make 50 grand in a year. Like that's not the way to do this. And it's not the way to be a great travel agent. So some of the stats that I found really interesting, there were two big ones. One of them said that 46% of agents are reporting that they're feeling more overwhelmed this year than last year. I don't know about you, Haley, but we've seen our business grow. We're at almost a 50% growth, which is huge to watch this happen. And I'm excited to watch the industry grow so much. But the reality is that's really big numbers. And I think the industry as a whole is seeing that that really, really big Q1 right now. The other stat that I found really interesting was that 32% of agents reported being in active burnout right now. That's a third of our industry. A third. I just thought those numbers were crazy.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, definitely crazy. And I think, especially during wave season, you hear that more and more. It's a lot, right? I think you come in and setting boundaries with your business and trying to understand what you need to implement so you don't have burnout. It's hard at the beginning. At the beginning, we're all sales hungry. We want to take every trip that we can have and we want to get numbers on the books so we can make money. And by doing that, you're kind of setting yourself up and your business for burnout early on, which if you can avoid that at the beginning, then you're gonna be set up for more success. Um, what I definitely want to do is dive in with you, bird, because I, with you being CEO Sava, CEO of Travel Birds, running two agencies, as well as still booking travel yourself. I think you are always like the queen of not burning out, but I need to know your secrets. Tell me everything. Um so let's kind of dive in. What is your secret?

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Well, I I want to first be transparent because I think it's only fair to be vulnerable and honest. And burnout is an understatement from some of the things I have felt in the past. I think I've gotten to a place now where I finally have it a little bit more under control, but I'm the type of person that likes to say yes to things. Um, especially if I think it's an opportunity for me to make a social connection, but to also serve my business. So if someone's like, come to this happy hour and meet all these people and come do this thing, I am a yes person and I love living my life like that. I've gotten to have all these amazing opportunities, but I need to realize saying no is not a missed opportunity because what I'm getting to do is saying yes to something else that I get in my life. Such is inner peace, right? Like that's a very important thing for us to have. So I have had weeks and months where I was working a hundred hours. Um, my husband is also a dramatic workaholic, and I think we fuel each other's fire a lot. And I think over the last couple of years, I've just really discovered that's not what I want to be at the end of my days, but I can't wait until then to start putting the right things into place. So there's a handful of things that I've really, really been doing. But I want to first like talk about what burnout feels like for me. And then Haley, maybe you could share the same. Burnout for me is like, I got nine hours of sleep last night, but I wake up and I'm just like, ugh, you know, I don't wake up like, yeah, let's get after it. That is the worst feeling in the world to me because I freaking love my job and I love this industry. So when I'm not excited about it, it's like extra. You know, you already feel yucky and then I feel yucky about feeling yucky. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Absolutely. I know exactly how you feel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah, I think that part's really hard. That that is how I would describe burnout, as well as just the generalized lack of passion throughout my day. If you are logging into your email and just trudging through mud, if you feel like you've got those heavy shrimp boots on as you're, oh my god, that was so Louisiana. Sorry, everybody, if you don't know what shrimp boots are. I'm like, wait a shrimp boot? What is that? Shrimp boots on? Um, just drudging through the mud and you're slowly just if that's what your day feels like, that's burnout. So you could actively be producing fantastic numbers and be doing all these things and going through the motions. Burnout's not necessarily depression, it's more of just I'm not excited to do what I could be doing. Yeah, you're and I think that slows us down.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Right? Your loss of motivation. Um, I agree. I think, you know, with sales too, if you're just strictly doing sales, it becomes very repetitive and you have to find that way to keep yourself motivated. I, you know, burnout for me, I say is a little different. I think burnout for me is when I know I'm exceeding my hours a week and I'm finding myself on my computer at 10 o'clock at night because my son's in bed and it's very quiet in the house, and I can get more things done. Then I don't go to bed till one or two and I'm up at seven doing it all over again. Um, that I find a lot with sales and kind of how can we work through that so it doesn't happen? I've gotten really better at it, but again, I think in sales, you kind of work when you can what makes sense. That's part of this job and flexibility. But first and foremost, chronic exhaustion, not sleeping, that is going to burn you out right away.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Yeah, so I would say if you're listening to this, check in with yourself. On a scale of one to 10, how excited are you to jump in and do the next thing that your job requires of you? And I would say if you're a seven or below, you're in active burnout. If you're a three and below, you need to really listen closely and pull out the notepad and the pen and make sure that you're getting back to that place of that eight, nine, or 10. Like, yeah, this is awesome. Because let's be honest, this job is freaking awesome. Like we get to travel the world, we get to do all these amazing things. I get to speak with incredible people every day. And I need to remember how much of a privilege that really is at the end of the day, right? Haley, when you said you exceed your hours, tell us a little bit more about that. What do you have earmarked in your head?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah, so typically I work, you know, Monday through Friday, nine to five, I think is the typical. I try to stick with that. Weekends I will never touch. However, I am very guilty for saying, hey, I still have a few things on my checklist that haven't gotten done today. Let me hop on later at night and go ahead and do it. But the second I open up my laptop or get on my computer, that just spirals. Before I know it, three or four hours have gone by and I'm like, I need to go to bed. Like, this is just not okay, right? So it definitely happens. The reality is we're always gonna have a task we need to do, right? I think no matter what, I will have endless work with what I have, and I need to just know when to shut it off, when it needs to get done, and it's important this day. I need to set boundaries better for myself. I think we all kind of do, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:39

I think that's the biggest thing that everybody needs to hear, and let's highlight that one more time. There will always be a task to be done at the end of the day, and it took me years to get comfortable with that. I want, I still want deep in my soul to be an inbox zero person. It is unrealistic to set that expectation for yourself. So I want you guys to think about there is a um nice versus necessary kind of play in your head that I started doing with myself. Would it be nice if I answered this right now, or is it absolutely necessary that this is answered today? There are plenty of them where I'm like, I'm sure that client wants a response as quickly as possible. But if I answer her tomorrow, she's not gonna fire me. She's not gonna be livid, she's not gonna be whatever. And if it's necessary, but I'm still feeling up against a wall, the email says this Hey Jan, I'm so excited to get started on this, or I've already been working on this. I don't quite have an answer for you yet. I'm gonna get it soon. I just wanted you to know that I didn't forget about you. That's the necessary response. The necessary response is not, I'm done with the task. Here's what you needed. And I think it's nice for us all to hear that. Just knowing the to-do list is never ending.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Ever, ever, ever. Be honest with your clients, right? Like, you know, I've had to say plenty of times, like, hey, I'm getting to it, it'll be done by the end of the week. It's maybe Tuesday. You have to understand I have several other things I need to do. So it's not drop everything I'm doing right now to get it done. I mean, there's some instances where that may be of urgency, but at this point, you should know what that really urgent matter is versus not. So yesterday I had my pre-departure teen tell me I messed up dates and my clients were arriving in Paris on the 9th instead of the 10th. Oh fun. Come on, Haley, get it together. At that point, that was urgent. I had to immediately drop what I was doing, go in and fix it. Thankfully, I was able to fix the problem. Done. But something like an email follow-up because I need to book a flight and I need your help to tell me how to do it. Okay, that may take a couple days, right? So setting boundaries with your clients, that's gonna help you for sure. I love it. So now that we know we're setting boundaries um in place, right? What other type of boundaries, Bird, do you put in place for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 10:59

All right, so one of my biggest is my phone number. Uh my clients do not get my personal phone number. My husband has it, my family has it, my close friends have it. Um, you have it, Haley, but not very few people have my personal number. And and what I do is I have a Google Voice number. I like Google Voice for a handful of reasons. Number one, it's free and I'm forever cheap. Number two, I can have it up on my computer and I can easily um send screenshots. So if I want to send a screenshot of a flight that I'm pitching a client, or hey, this is what the picture of the room looks like, as we're, you know, I do all my proposals live, but you know, there's follow-up sometimes. So sending screenshots is really easy, even if they don't have an Apple device. Um I can type just, you know, now Apple, if you have an iPhone, you're plugged right into your Mac. But if you don't have that with Google Voice, I can type out what I'm texting my client, and it's so much quicker. Um, but the other thing I can do is I can turn the app off. And on the weekends and at night, those messages don't notify me. They're there. If I need to check them, they are there. Um, but I do my best not to do that. I explain to my clients that while they're traveling, WhatsApp is the way to uh get a hold of me. They can call or text me. It's the same as as texting, but WhatsApp is what I'm going to pay attention to. I don't tell them that until we're on the pre-departure call. So they don't WhatsApp me about something, you know, just random. Um I will also say here, here's where I break my rule. If I'm actively selling the trip, if I'm getting the yes from you and we're there, only if I'm waiting for the yes. So if I'm doing a follow-up, if I'm like one more thing, they need this one little thing for me before they can say yes, I'll do that outside my hours. I will do that at night, I will do that on the weekends. But I explained to them after I lock everything in, hey, I know we were texting at 8 p.m. the other night. I just wanted to let you know. I typically work nine to five. I wanted to make sure I got that done for you. So I worked outside my hours, but I just want to make it clear that I probably wouldn't answer a text at that time of night. I use the beautiful response of, because I have my babies and I really want to pay attention to my babies on nights and weekends. Whatever your excuses, even if it's just I like me and I want to spend nights and weekends with me, that's an okay excuse. You don't need permission to tell people you're not responding. But what I would say is if you do respond, follow it up with a this is not an expectation you should have of me. Is that fair? Do you do anything about that?

SPEAKER_01 13:30

I am so envious of how you have that set in place. I think it's beautiful. What would you recommend for somebody at this point who has like interconnected their Google Voice with their business, with their personal phone? And how do you get that back? Like, I'm gonna be honest, a lot of my clients have my personal number, and it's to the point where I get so frustrated sometimes when I see them. I'm tired, I don't want to reply. Then, you know, they go down way down here, and I never and I just forget about them.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

So, how do you transition back to Google Voice to use it fully where you just I think it's more of um it just it's there is no reason you cannot explain to clients that things have changed. Whether that's I didn't used to charge a fee and I do now, I didn't used to, or I used to answer your phone calls on the weekends and I won't anymore. There's no reason you can't change your process. So if you want to say, hey, I think it's really important that all of my work calls go to this number instead. This is my new work phone number, you can even tell them you got rid of the old one. I would personally say, Hey, I like text them from the new number. This is Haley DeCarlo. I'm so excited to work with you on this trip. I got a new phone number. Can you please delete the old number?

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah, that's beautiful. So just time realigning.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yeah, very and if if you're a person right now that's like, oh my God, my people call me at nights and weekends all the time. Hey, I just want you to know I'm really changing the way that I do my business. The reason being is because I'm finding it really hard to keep up right now. And it's been really difficult on me. And I want to make sure that I'm giving you the best service. But to do that, I need to make sure that I am uh prioritizing self-care in my off hours. So if you do text me at night or on the weekends, I need you to know I got it. And you will be the first that I answer on Monday morning. Now you need to hold up and do that. But you'll be the first that I answer on Monday morning. But I just need you to know on Saturday, it's unlikely you'll get a response from me. I love to follow it up by asking permission. And I say, is that okay? Yeah. And if they say no, I tell them where they could shove it and we will never work together again.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Right. I mean, I love that. I think always put it back in them. So now that you have they have a clear understanding of what you're trying to say to them, you're getting that response from them and then done. Okay, I love that. So just for anybody who uses their personal phone number, download Google Voice, make a business phone number. I love Bird, how you said you can shut off Google Voice app, um, not have the notifications come to your phone. When you're on your computer at nine o'clock on Monday, throw up the Google Voice, reply to everything just like you would with email, essentially. I love that. I absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Mine stays as a tab on my computer all the time. I actually have it set as my home screen because I know that's the thing I'm going to check most often. Um, so for me, like that's that's where communications happen. I also explain to my clients, I don't enjoy email. I will answer your emails, but email is not my priority one throughout the day. I only answer emails at two points throughout my day. So if you need something very, very quickly, the best bet's to pick up the phone and call me. I will answer a phone call. My phone's in front of me. Um, so call me and I don't tell them it's a Google voice number. They don't know. I just say call me. Um, if it's not an emergency, that's where the email comes in and that's where I'll get to it within a couple of days. But if you need something now, call or text me. That's how you're gonna get a hold. And I think that's fair. Like, I don't understand why people think that you need to respond to an email within 24 hours. Like, no, I don't. If it's not urgent, you don't need that response. Now, can I wait a week? Absolutely not. That's bad service. But I think there's a solid in-between that will help you as an agent give yourself permission to step back at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

I love that. I think little things like in your email signature, add your office hours, put any out of office dates on there. Um, I don't know. It just makes the client come back and say, okay, Haley is out of office, I'm gonna calm down. I can get that dinner reservation in a week, right? Um, okay, so we know this is kind of, you know, pre-like burnout in one sense. So going into like once you qualify a client, you're working with a client, there's obviously a lot of burnout that can happen. Um, so let's talk about kind of client burnout while you're trying to get that sale. Um, things like having a client come back and try to rework an itinerary five, six, seven times. What does that look like? How do you get through that type of burnout? Woo!

SPEAKER_00 18:10

That's my favorite one. Okay, number one, you need to turn down clients. If you have never turned down a client, you're doing this job wrong. You can turn down a client for a handful of reasons. Um, flights only, they want an Airbnb, but also their budget just doesn't align with what you want to book. I use the phrase, and I I've never had anyone push back, but I use the phrase, look, it's really hard to understand and truly know and be an expert on everything. So what I've done is I've really, really leaned into four and five star properties, and that's in Western Europe. And that's what I know. I know those like the back of my hand. The reality of the matter is the budget you want to work within is not gonna fit those boundaries. So I'm just not gonna be the best travel agent for you. You know, I think this trip's gonna be wonderful. I think you're gonna have a great time, but I'm not the one that's gonna plan it. Don't apologize, don't say anything after, don't leave the door open and be like, well, if you have a better budget, just turn it down. Move on. Because if they do give you a better budget, it's probably stretching them.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

And then what? Right. So what happens if you qualify a client, right? We qualify, we get our fee, we move into the proposal process, and now they're just every option they give you, there's a problem. They're making you go back seven times to fix it, and X, Y, and Z is not aligning anymore. At what point does that become a burnout? And how do you handle that?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Well, so the first big one that you actually asked that I didn't answer was around like what if they just keep changing destinations? When I pitch a fee, I explain in the fee this fee is to cover me creating the itinerary for your trip to Italy. And I always throw in the line this is a non-refundable fee. And if we switch destinations, all of a sudden it's a whole new itinerary. Well, that's a different trip, different fee. Does all of that make sense? And they go, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. And then you just move forward. So that way when they come back and they do change, and now all of a sudden they want to go to Costa Rica because those are the same place. I get to very gently explain to them, like, by the way, this is a full new itinerary. We're not using anything we used before. So you are gonna have to pay my research and design fee again. I'm gonna go ahead and send you the link. You as soon as I get that paid, I'll get working on it, right? I think that's easy. But if if it's still Italy and they've paid Italy and then just it's not right and they keep reworking and they keep doing the things. One of the things that I like to push back on is if a client says, Yeah, that can you send me some more options for hotels in Rome? Don't send them more options for hotels in Rome. Respond back and say, Absolutely, I would love to do that. Can you help me understand what it was you didn't like about what I've already sent over? So I make sure I get the right options the next time around. You're doing two things. Number one, you're putting work on them. Nobody wants extra work on them. Number two, you are better understanding. They may say, you know, for uh this one had a rooftop pool and I've got little kids and I think it might be dangerous. Who knows? Whatever it is that they came up with, but it's insight that you didn't have before, right? If they're instead say, Well, I want to see if I could get anything cheaper, that's where you go, okay, you told me that your budget was$10,000. Is that no longer the case? Because everything I gave you before, including all of our activities and transfers and flights, are falling within the budget you gave me. If that's not the case, let me make some other cuts that I think may keep the integrity of the trip. Like, don't just give them more and more and more. Exactly. You know, you don't like these resorts in Jamaica, tell me why and put it back on them.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

I love that. That is something that when I do one on one coaching or group coaching, I talk about all the time, right? Is how can you minimize that work, which ultimately leads to burnout so you can better understand what your clients want. And sometimes it truly Just takes a conversation with you know realignment, and then they're like, you know what? Actually, everything I like about this hotel. Okay, so then then now what? Right? Let me get something comparable to you. Maybe we look at a different location. That way you have something side by side. But what you don't want to do is put yourself down a rabbit hole without understanding from your client of what they truly want.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah, I had a client just the other day that I had to laugh out loud because he was like, I did the, well, what don't you like here? And he's like, I love everything about it. That's exactly what I want. I just want it for cheaper. And I responded back, don't we all? Ha ha. Like that you need to call it out for what it is. Like, I fully understand that's what you want. But if this is the level of experience that you're looking for, this is the price tag that goes with it. Now, that particular human, we were well within his budget and well under his scare point. Um, so I think it was literally uh the type of person that feels like if you don't negotiate, then you didn't do it right and he was pushing just for the sake of pushing because he came back and was like, you're right, this is exactly what I'm looking for, move forward kind of thing. And I think it's just fair to call it out. And clients 100%. Some clients are hard just to be hard.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah, because they, you know, sometimes they forget that they hired you as a travel agent to help make their lives easier, make these decisions. The reason you're putting them in that property is because you know it's an excellent property, right? So they just need to hear it again sometimes um to make that decision. Now, I think another important thing is when you're creating the trips, like one boundary for me that if I don't stick with its minimum budgets, right? We talk about if a client comes to me with Italy and I take on a trip with and I tell them they can't hit a five or six hundred dollar minimum per day per person, and I take that on, my life is going to be miserable. It's gonna be very hard. Um, that's gonna create burnout. So I think it's really important to know the destination you're working on of what the actual cost is going to be. So you don't put yourself into that. What did I do? I took on this client, I made a promise, I can't make this trip happen. How do I approach that? And instead of walking away, you're setting yourself up for success by letting them know ahead of time, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

That's a great tip. Honestly, like, know what you're willing to work and kind of go from there. The reality of the matter is if you don't know, then you may just say, like, okay, I can do it. And I think every one of us out there knows the feeling of how hard it is to put together a cheap trip. My God, it's so much harder than it is versus somebody that has a huge budget. You know, you can do all these fun things.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

So turn more people down. That will definitely cut some of your burnout for sure. Um, all right. So now that we're doing, you know, we're burnt out to eliminate the burnout. I think another thing too is we all work from home, right? Or most of us do. And working from home, I think is it has its ups, it has its downs. For me, one of the downs is taking breaks. Like sometime I'm like, I haven't walked away for five or six hours. So how do you sit there, Bird, and you like put yourself on the schedule of, hey, I need to get up away from the screen for 10, 15, 20 minutes and do this regularly throughout your day. What does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Oh, this is the part that I fail at. I'll I'll be very honest. I have lunch, I have lunch right here most of the time. A couple of things though that I would say is we spoke in a couple in a few episodes before about the importance of leaving your office because you're not gonna meet new clients sitting at your desk. So getting out and having lunch with friends and going to happy hours and doing those things that helps in general. I don't mind when I don't have a lunch scheduled eating lunch at my desk. That doesn't bother me. Um, for me, I'm not as much as I need to get up for 15 minutes. As much as I am that I have to have physical activity of sorts, so I love going to the gym. I do enjoy those sort of things. I don't like all gym workouts. I really hate running. But there's some gym workouts that I really, really enjoy. And for me, I need to place that in my day because once my kids are home, I get screwed. And I am not an early morning person. So it does have to fit my day. And I think that's for me what replaces the 15 minutes of walking around. But I would say if you are the person that wants or needs the walk around, do it without your your earbuds. Do it without it. There are so many studies out there about the how your nervous system can basically reset itself. But if and just walking outside in nature, huge reset from as little as 10 minutes, your um endorphins and all the different chemicals in your brain completely reset themselves. However, if you have earpods in and you're listening to earbuds, earpods, iPods, whatever they are, if you're listening to music or an or um a podcast or whatever it is, while you're trying to do that reset in nature, you don't get any of that chemical reset. So it's really, really important if you are gonna take time for the walk to do it in silence and just let your thoughts flow, let yourself relax, let your brain take the time to reset. Because if you're just constantly listening to something, that's actually really, really bad for the human brain. It's not the way we we evolved over the years.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, I love that. Um, any suggestions for a New Englander from November to March?

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Move, move to Charlotte, Hayley. There it is. Um, I think I think the real thing is um I have an a walking pad, and yes, I know I look really dumb doing the walking pad in my meetings, but just getting some like in movement to your body is genuinely helpful for me. Getting outside is very important.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

I've always been like, Bert is amazing. Look at her walking right now. I feel like my coordination would be awful, and I would just tell I need to try it. I need to get a walking.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

I can't type, I can't type, but I can talk into it. And what I will say is I love that you just said that I look amazing doing it because in my head the whole time I'm like, what a fing nerd.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah, um, I love that. But I agree. I think any physical activity, getting outside, walking, just step away from your computer, do it more, right? Definitely do it more. Um, meditation. Do you do any type of meditation ever?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

So this is my uh this is my new to-do list. I was actually having a conversation um on Tuesday of this week about that. I have a really hard time slowing down, and I do find myself jumping from one thing to another to another. Um, but just recently, I've said yes too many times. And I I want to give some comfort to everybody out there because I think this ebbs and flows. You will never be perfect at this. Um, but you need to listen to your body and the signals of when you're feeling that way, when you're feeling a lack of motivation, when you're feeling just not excited, when there's a little bit of decline in your performance. Did it take longer to think through that email and respond to that email than it should have? Did it take me a lot longer to put together that itinerary than it should have? Like that decline in performance is probably your your first thing. Um, for me, it's it's how I feel when I wake up. You know, I'm a big sleeper. I love sleep. So for me, if I'm not waking up feeling like hell yeah, that's a problem for me. Um, so I guess going back to it, just recently, more and more I've realized I'm not making that kind of space. And uh I have every study in the world that says meditation is the way to do it, but I've got one of those brains that goes a little crazy. So I was speaking to a business coach about it and he said, five minutes. You can reset the way that your mind processes in as little as five minutes. And even professional meditators, they're usually not going more than 10 minutes. You don't need a lot of time to do this, you just need to sit in silence as a thought kind of flows in, let it flow out. Say, okay, I will come back to that. Okay, I will come back to that. And the idea is just to center yourself and be quiet, but that's really difficult. Are you a meditator?

SPEAKER_01 29:56

I am not. Um, I would be open to it. I think for me, like one of my biggest things is trying to figure out a really good nighttime routine, right? Like at what point do I put down the electronics, stay off my phone, just stop where I do that reset uh during night and then try to get a good sleep and go to bed.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Um so I think I do have it for you. Um there's a lot of research around gratitude uh practices. Writing it down specifically is the issue. So they they did a study, and I'm forgetting the name of the study, but essentially it's a 21-day study, and they did it with a group where they said just say out loud three things you're grateful for. And they did it with another group that said, write it down. And your brain actually processes words different with the physicality of writing out the words. So uh the study basically concluded at the end how important it was to write it down, but also just the practice of gratitude in general was so important. So think like you go to bed at the end of the day, and the question is not what am I grateful for? The question is what impacted my or what happened today that impacted me personally that benefited me, right? So it is what am I grateful for? But what what impacted me? And I think that word impact is what you should focus on. What gave me a better experience today? And it could be something really tiny. It could be like, oh man, Vivian ran up and gave me this huge hug when I picked her up from daycare, and that that blew my mind, right? Because those are such sweet and awesome moments, or it could be this huge thing. I landed this new big deal, I got this new whatever. This was a commission with a comma came in today, right? Like it doesn't have to be big or little, it could be both, it could be one or the other, but I think the idea of at least three, so you get the brain going a little bit more, and the idea of writing, writing it down is going to change. We do it at dinner every night and we say it out loud uh with my family, but then I've decided I need to go back and write it down because I think it just solidifies all those good feelings you get.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

That's amazing. Yeah, so taking more time for yourself. I think just these small little things that you can do throughout your day to take care of the burnout, to help you just relax and enjoy life and not feel it. Um, I love that. What about screen habits? Do you like, do you put your phone down at a certain time every day and saying, hey, I'm done, I'm not doing this anymore?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Uh yes and no. I've gotten better. I'm a big reader, so I really enjoy reading at the end of the day. So that just naturally will get the phone out of my hands. But I will also say I've talked to a lot of agents who are like, I can't put my phone down because my clients are traveling or need me. And I think there's so much value in how you do a great pre-departure call, which we'll do a full episode and deep dive because a pre-departure call is what saves me from shooting my clients sometimes. The reality is I was talking to an agent just the other day and she goes, I don't do flights anymore. I don't do flights because uh everybody has issues with flights, and that creates my burnout. So what I do is I don't do flights anymore. And I argued with her because I'm a very aggressive believer that flights are part of our job. And I think if you're giving great service, you're doing the things you're not getting commission on. Flights is one of those. Um, it's also a confusing and stressful thing for people to do. You should be taking that off their plate, you should be making their dinner reservations, their spa appointments. You should do the things you don't get paid for because that's what creates a really great travel agent experience is doing all of it. However, setting the expectations around flights is super, super important. So I explain to them, I will book these, but I am booking them under your name. I am booking them with your uh credentials. And the way I explain it on the pre-departure call is essentially once you check in, I can no longer do anything with those flights, which is fairly true. The gate agent technically owns the flights once you check in. So it's not once you go through security, it is actually once you check in 24 hours in advance. The gate agent owns the flights as far as you know United or Delta are concerned. So if something is going wrong while you're at the airport, while you're on your layover, whatever it is, the gate agent's gonna have a lot more control over changes that can be made than I will. If you want to call me and see if I can help, I'm absolutely happy to jump in. But the reality is you need to own this experience with your flights and you need to handle if things need to get changed. Now loot me in because I'm happy to call your transfer company and let them know. But let's be honest, if it's the middle of the night, I'm not going to get your phone call until after you land. So that's why I've given you your transfer company's phone number. So you're able to do that as well, and everything still flows smoothly. Again, take the time and ask permission. Are you okay with that? And again, if they say no, tell them I'm never working with you again. They're gonna say yes, they just do. So you're getting this beautiful experience of saying I'm not your person, and you're getting this beautiful experience of getting their buy-in on it done. Like I my clients do not call me when they travel. They don't, they don't. And I don't use DMCs, so they're not calling somebody else, they're figuring it out themselves.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Yeah, you're setting realistic expectations. This is what it is. You're telling them exactly how it needs to be and what they need to do. Um, I'm a firm believer that our job is really designing this amazing trip. I can't control, you know, flight issues, I can't control your transfer company, just the guy not showing up. I can do everything in my power to make sure it happens. But when it's time to actively do it, I need you to step up and make sure everything goes the way that was planned.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah, I explain to people when I pitch the fee, the research and design fee is truly for me to research and design your trip. You're not paying for me to be up at two in the morning because your flight was canceled. And I do take the time to explain that because I want them to have great expectations. Really, in burnout equals great expectations. Like I think at the end of the day, that's really where we are is do they know what you expect of them and what they expect of you?

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Um, okay, so then if we dive into some of the burnout that we get from keeping up with the trip. So we booked a trip, we finally got through the small burnouts here. Now we have months of just maintenance our trips in our clients, which also creates burnout because it's just a continuous process. Um, so something like implementing automat um automations workflows, that definitely will help with burnout. And I think another thing too is once you get to a certain level, you're gonna realize hey, I probably need somebody to assist me with admin help, right? And what that looks like. Um, what are your thoughts on that bird as far as putting place?

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Let's take the automations and workflows first. Um, because I think that that's one that's easy and uh attainable for every single person. It just takes time. You should have a workflow that does a handful of things. Uh, I have an automated email that goes out 30 days before the trip that just goes over some pre-departure stuff. Hey, you might need an adapter converter. Hey, if you want to sign up for the STEP program through um through the department, you can do that. The if you want to, whatever, all the different things that kind of hey, don't forget to pause your mail or forward your mail or whatever you need to do. There's just a list of things. If you're like, Bird, I don't know what the list of things are. You know who can help you? Chat GPT, utilize things, stop rebuilding the wheel, right? None of this is rocket science. So I have that. I have another one that goes out 21 days before departure that basically says, hey, this is country specific. This is what tipping looks like in your country, this is the adapter-converter situation, this is what um money looks like in your country, the type of money they used. Do you need a lot of money? Is everything by credit card? Are ATMs prevalent in the country? We have all of that built out for all the countries we serve. Again, if you don't have this, it is not hard to build. Go to ChatGPT, double check everything through the internet and through your own research and put it together and then you have it forever, right? And then we have a cascade of emails. We have one that goes out at 14 days prior to departure that says, I want to set up a pre-departure call with you. When would be a good time? Ew, here's my Calendly link. Stuff like that are very easy, right? We have one that goes out seven days that says, hey, last minute, these are all the things. And then we have one the day before that says, I hope you have a great time. It reiterates that you have phone numbers and meeting places and all of this in your itinerary, and I hope you have a great trip. Um, we have one that says welcome home the day they have welcome home. The idea is not to email your clients incessantly. The idea is to make sure that they understand you are supportive throughout this journey in a way that's a very light lift for you. They don't know if it's a light lift for you. They're like, wow, all this great helpful information for you. The reality is you just added the automation to your workflow and now it's gonna all send out and cascade appropriately. We have them that ask for reviews, and we have one that does a review reminder a couple weeks later. We've got all these different things, right? And I think that if you can get a really great automation in place, that is life or death. For our host agency, that was a big thing for me to focus on because of the reality that how many dang Facebook posts do you see where people are like, who can help me with automations? There's like entire companies out there that all they do is they set up your travel joy workflows or your test workflows. Um, so for us, we just have it all in turn. Turn is available to everyone within our host agency for free, and the workflows are all built out for everybody there. So I think it's that is the big thing to make sure your life isn't crazy or keeping up with your trip. Essentially, I book a trip and I don't think about it again until the pre-departure call. There's not communication in between for me because my guest experience manager is doing all of that. Haley, you've you've worked with our gems for years now. Tell us a little bit about gyms, and we definitely don't want to be salesies. So this is not, hey, you need to sign up for Savo because we have this great program for you. No, it's really if you don't have uh somebody that does this stuff for you, get somebody. I don't care if it's through me, get somebody. I'm helping explain to you what you should have.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Like you said, Bird, the second I book a trip, I'm done. I don't circle back and worry about it because of all the things that we've implemented throughout the process to make our lives easier. That right there alone has saved me in so much burnout, right? If you told like the things clients email about, like you said, adapters and currency. If you take 20 minutes and put together uh automation to input to each workflow or country that you're doing it at, your client's not gonna text you on it again. Or if they do, I just simply say, Hey, you're gonna be getting a series of emails coming out in the next month. I'm really excited. Any questions, reply to me and we'll go from there. But now you're setting yourself up to get onto that pre-departure call with all these questions that you already know they're gonna ask, but they know the answers to because they've read all your automations. That month, that 30 days before travel is when the client's really starting to engage in the trip. It's coming up, they're getting ready for it, and then they start going all in to understand what they really truly need. So doing it earlier than that, I feel like it may get lost. Um, so stick with that 30 days, right? And that structure.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

So I would say, Haley, we we do a pro tip. We take that particular email, not all of them, but that email that's like country specific, and we also upload that information to their itinerary. So my text back to the client says, Oh, by the way, there's a travel guide for Mexico, for Spain, for whatever in your itinerary. Go go look there. The answer is there, but also there's a lot of other great information you're gonna need to know. So I don't answer their question. I I teach them how to find the information themselves, but I also am showing and directing them to the itinerary where it just lives. So that's something we do right after the booking that I think is really important. And again, all of that lives in turn for us and we've got it built out for a hundred different countries. But if that's not the case, build it out for your number one country, then build it out for your number two country and kind of go from there.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah, if you're not using if you're a travel agent who really isn't using a workflow system, which I suppose is a thing, um, but now your clients are gonna hassle you all the time because they don't have the resources that they need to have a great trip. So figure that out first and foremost and give your clients everything that they need so you're not in the middle of it from now until they travel.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

We should do a whole episode just very specifically about what our workflow, our generalized workflow for a trip looks like. Because I think that would be um interesting and helpful. So if that is interesting to you, comment below, tell us what you want, we're happy to do it. Um, I think it's nothing is proprietary, right? Like I think if you're a great travel agent, that makes our industry look great. And I'm happy to give out all of those secrets because I it genuinely does help you at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Yeah, I love that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Wait, go back and talk a little bit more about our gems and like just the thought of how do you hand it off to someone else? Because I think a lot of burnout is like it's all on me. What does the handoff look like so it doesn't feel uncomfortable to the traveler?

SPEAKER_01 43:10

After I mean, when I because I already have this brought out, I tell my clients about my gem in a consultation. That's if they're new clients. If they're repeats at this point, they already know the process. So they already love my gem and and they're that relationship's made. So I mean, the idea at some point we all get to where we have repeat clients and everything's great. Um, but basically the gem, I just introduce them immediately after I book a trip and say, you know, here's Dominic. You know, he's gonna take over from here. Any other questions? There's that. When I have like I just had somebody text me the other day, they're leaving in five weeks about an extra tour that they wanted to add in. And I said, Okay, did you get the email from Dominic? Let's get replied there because he's the one who's actually the expert at this, you know. Know, and there's no there's nothing wrong with that. I just am basically saying in a nice way, I don't have time to do it right now. I need to focus back on you know sales and what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Um I think it's pretty common to have have a salesperson in an industry, and once you buy something, it goes to like a customer service rep. I kind of explain it as I do this full time and this is my profession, and I have an assistant. And there, I I almost feel like it makes me look more legitimate for what it is. And I'm like, this is my guest experience manager manager, my gym. And I introduce them that way of like this is my assistant, they'll be very much in all of your trips that you ever do with me. This person is my right hand man, like what however you want to say it is fine. But I think helping the client understand that someone helps you is really, really important. Now, our gyms make sure to CC the advisor on everything so you never miss anything. So I'd recommend if you're thinking about getting an assistant, have them do that, but don't jump in too soon. Like I get an email from my client or I get a response from the gym and I snooze the email two, three days. And if the gym hasn't responded, well, that's a quick trigger for me to be like, Flora, why didn't you respond to this yet? Like what's happening, right? So I'm still like in the mix, but I'm not really doing the work. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Yeah, the your client knows you're looking at it, so they have that trust. That trust is not lost. But the reality is I don't even look at those emails. And if my gem has a problem, they're gonna message me directly and say, hey, I need your help or assistance with this. Absolutely. I'll hop in, we'll figure this out together. Then that pre-departure call is when you're really going over all those details that the gem set in place from when you booked it to um departure. Yeah, I'm gonna be honest, clients love knowing that you have an assistant. So if you're ever worried about it, use that to your advantage. Use it as a selling point. I want all my clients to know that hey, yes, I'm I'm up front, I'll be working with you. But I do have a team that has separate sets of eyes, right? And I tell them, you know, mistakes can be made. So by having this set in place, it guarantees that everything with your trip is gonna run as smoothly and seamless as possible. Clients love to hear that. So don't shy away from getting an assistant, don't shy away from introducing somebody else. It just shows that you're a team and you know, it's they're taken care of at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

When we train our assistants, um, that's one of the things we we work for to train. It's like, okay, when one of the agents at Sava introduces you to the client, like you need to respond. And this is what the welcome email should kind of look like. And explain to that client what to expect from you. Look, these are a bullet point list of the things that I work on, and this is what I can help you with. Like, feel free to ask me. And then our assistants, what they do is they actually reach back out to the client 60 days before the trip and they say, Hey, now it's time to get this ball rolling. If we want to do dinner reservations, we're getting ahead of the curve. This is the perfect time to do it. If they don't hear from them, they reach out again at 30 days and just say, I just want to make sure you have everything you need. If you don't need anything from me, fine, but I need you to know I'm here for you. Um, most clients wait until 30 days. It's our bane of our existence. I wish they would do things earlier. Um, but having that guest experience manager reach out, what I think it does is it helps the client not make the ask two or three days before they depart and cause anxiety with everyone. It's anxiety around the travelers because they're like, oh, we don't have any dinner reservations, and what were we thinking? And then that causes anxiety with the travel agent. And then now the gym is running around trying to get this done really fast and like that sucks. So I think just pinging them early on is one of the beautiful things about that. And again, that last minute hair on fire is what causes burnout. So if you can avoid it and put things in a place systematically that will prevent that, that's a really, really great step in the right direction.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Absolutely. Yeah. What other thoughts do you have on burnout, Byrne? Anything else that you can think of right now? Listen to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

I think it's really, really important to listen to yourself. And if you're feeling really exhausted, it's not your fault. It's not. And you need to look at your systems and say, hold on, is it me? Because a lot of times it's two things. It's not just everybody else or just me. A lot of it is a combination. I know for me it is typically I'm saying yes to too many things right now, and I'm not leaving enough open space in my day for um creative thought and for organization and for planning, that creates burnout for me. But it could also be clients reaching out at all hours of the night or expectations set wrong or systems not in place the right way. So I think you need to listen to yourself and try to say, like, what is my problem today? And again, this ebbs and flows. This is never, you're not gonna solve the burnout issue altogether. If you're a million-dollar plus producer, you're constantly gonna need to just continue to check in on yourself and say, where do I need more in my life and where do I need less? And if you have a team right now, I want you to sit back and just ask yourself, like, who on my team really needs me right now? And you need to show up for them in that same way and send them this podcast and say, Hey, you need to listen to this. You are you're not burnt out yet, but you're gonna be if you don't listen to it. Um, your body should be giving you signals that you're stressed. Um, your heart rate's not going as low as it should when you sleep. You're you're just kind of a little more tired than you should be, you're not as excited about the day, your passion's not there. The signs are there. You're just not taking the time to listen to them. And those signs come before burnout. Those signs don't come after burnout. So if you're like, yeah, I'm feeling that I'm burnout. No, no, no. You're getting to burnout. Burnout's a complete crash, and you should never get there. You should always be listening to yourself before there. So I guess my biggest advice would be listen to your body and make sure that you're being really, really cognizant of how you plan your days. And don't just say there's free time I can take that meeting, say, no, no, I need some free time in that day. I need to make sure that stays open so I can do the work to grow my business and I can work on my business, not just in it.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

I love that. Beautifully said. Um, so just to recap here, listen to yourself, understand your body, know when work's becoming too much, and realign yourself. Set good systems in place so your business runs smoothly and set boundaries. Don't be afraid of boundaries and implement them as often as possible. This will all help you with, you know, avoiding burnout so you can just have a good life, be happy being a travel agent, and don't walk away from the business, right? So I've got one more.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

I've got one more we have to talk about really, really quick. Take a damn vacation. Yeah. So many people joke that travel agents don't get vacations, and I think that's absolutely incorrect. I take real vacations where I don't answer my email for a whole week and I tell my clients I'm out, and that needs to happen. Don't do it while all your clients are traveling. That's probably not the right way to do it. Plan it in advance, say I'm not taking trips here, but plan it in advance, say I'm not taking trips here. I'm gonna be fully gone and fully unplugged. Or if you do have trips, ask another travel agent, hey, can you be the point of contact for this and tell your clients what's happening? And then ask the other agent, I'll do that for you when you're on vacation. Is that okay? You need to give yourself permission to truly unplug several times a year. It's not a one-time thing. It needs to be like, I am walking away completely, I'm not answering texts, I'm not answering emails. Put up that away message and don't lean into that joke that travel agents don't take vacations. Like, that's not fair to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

I think, and I love that you brought this up, but you're absolutely right. We're most of us are 1099s, independent contractors, we're running our own business, and I think that mindset of I don't get paid vacations and things like that, that does not mean work all the time. But guess how many weeks I took off last year?

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Uh, probably very little because you weren't a full-time employee of mine yet.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

No, no, no, no, no. Independent contractor, you know, about 200,000 in commissions, um, over well over a million dollars in sales. I took off seven weeks last year.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Yeah, girl!

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Seven weeks I unplugged and I did not work. And that usually happens in the second half of the year. Um, the first year, the first wave season, everything I go all in. So I've already planned that as part of you know my year. But other than that, once June comes, my kids are out of school. I'll take off as many days as I can. And yeah, seven weeks, and I was really proud of it. And I was still able to do it. I was able to still make my business go round. I had systems set in place, but without those seven weeks with my family and just, you know, taking the time to decompress from everything, I would have been a mess, right? So, yes, take vacations, take them off.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

I mean, it's a great point. How many corporate jobs are gonna give you seven weeks off and pay you$200,000? Like, that's just not the reality of corporate jobs. So, this industry can be extremely beautiful if you work it the right way. And I love that you're ending on that note because the reality of the matter is like this job is bomb. And I don't think enough people treat it that way and do the things that it takes to make it that incredible, right? In your first couple of years, maybe you're hustling, but if you're in your three, four, and five and you're still really struggling with these things, I gotta be honest, it's your fault. You've got to be better at saying, no, I don't do this, or turning them down, or you know, all of the things that need to happen at the end of the day. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

All right. Well, that's it for our podcast today. I think truly, Bert and I just want every travel advisor to know that your life doesn't have to be full of burnout. Um, it's very important. So you'll hear us talk about it a lot. Any other final?

SPEAKER_00 54:11

No, go out there and enjoy your lives, people. The more fun you're having, the more fun your clients will have.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Exactly. Awesome. Well, thank you for a great episode, Bird, and we'll talk to you all soon.