The Travel Agent Guide

Responding to Negative Feedback: Doing the Right Thing

• Byrd Bergeron and Haley DeCarlo

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0:00 | 58:25

In this episode of The Travel Agent Guide Podcast, we tackle one of the most challenging parts of running a travel business—responding to negative feedback. Every travel advisor will eventually receive a complaint or less-than-perfect review, but how you respond can either strengthen your reputation or damage it.

Join us as we discuss practical strategies for handling difficult client situations with professionalism, empathy, and integrity while staying true to your business values.


00:00:00 - Introduction to the Proven Sales Process

00:00:54 - Building a Repeatable Sales System

00:02:48 - Step 1: The Client Consultation

00:04:01 - Mapping the Client Journey

00:06:36 - Why Video Consultations Matter

00:09:48 - Handling Zoom Objections

00:11:51 - Preparing Before the Consultation

00:13:23 - Researching Your Client

00:14:47 - Qualifying the Right Clients

00:16:05 - Asking the Right Questions

00:18:32 - Ending the Consultation Effectively

00:19:04 - Discussing Budget & Deposit Timing

00:22:24 - Scheduling the Proposal Call

00:23:15 - Fees, Forms & Next Steps

00:25:39 - Step 2: Research & Design

00:25:51 - Step 3: The Proposal Presentation

00:28:53 - Getting Every Decision-Maker Involved

00:31:18 - Presenting the Itinerary as a Story

00:35:45 - Personalizing the Client Experience

00:38:04 - Closing the Sale with Confidence

00:40:42 - Creating Urgency Without Pressure

00:45:24 - Handling Client Hesitation

00:47:27 - What Happens After Booking

00:48:38 - Final Thoughts

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SPEAKER_02

Welcome back this week. We're excited to talk about a really hot button topic responding to negative feedback. And this time of year, you guys have the most travelers on the road typically. And I'm sure you have run into once or twice some negative feedback. Most agents I talk to just ostrich and try to avoid it. And let's be honest, that does not make it go away. So by the end of today's episode, what we're going to do is arm you with the tools to really be able to respond in the right way to negative feedback and spin it in a way that will protect and continue to grow your business. So I am excited about that. Joined by Miss Haley DiCarlo today. Haley, you've never once ever received any kind of negative feedback, right? Nothing but sunshine and butterflies over there.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

I'm absolutely perfect.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, right. Um no, I have dealt with quite the fair share of negative feedback from clients. So that is something I am well versed on at this point going into year six as a TA.

SPEAKER_02

And I I want to frame this conversation with two, this feels like two separate conversations to me. The first is the fact that there's negative feedback about things that we have no control over. Your trains went on strike, your flights got canceled, your seats got changed in the airline. There's a lot of things that we deal with and we still have to apologize for it that were not our fault. And then we need to really address the I fucked up. And that's the hardest part, right? It's one thing to be like, I don't own Delta, I can't fix your seat. It's another to say, I booked the wrong thing and I've ruined your experience. So we will dive into both and we'll really help arm you again with just like, here's the best reaction in that scenario. Um, Haley, let's talk about some of the things not in your control. Give me some examples of like, I can't believe this person's so mad at me over whatever.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the transfer couldn't come back because their hour was delayed an hour and a half or their flight was delayed an hour and a half. Um, that's something I hear often. But what I've learned to do after this negative feedback is basically set expectations moving forward with all clients. So I think the more you learn, the more negative feedback you get. It take it as a good thing because you're learning from it and you're understanding how to approach the next client and prepare them for anything and everything that could possibly go wrong. So they're not gonna target you and get mad at you when it does happen.

SPEAKER_02

Um yes, absolutely. Yeah, I um I had a fan. I think I cut you off. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01

Go ahead, go for it, go.

SPEAKER_02

I was gonna say, I had a client of a couple of years ago that I'll never ever ever forget. She calls and she's livid because she felt like she was given bad advice. And this woman genuinely felt like the problem was the advice she was given, not the result from the advice. So what she was upset about is the fact that Rome was old and quote unquote literally falling apart. Um, she was just like digging into me because she felt like from what we had discussed, she was in disbelief that I would send her to a city like Rome. And I was like, oh, okay, tell me more, right? And it was interesting because my gut reaction was like, fuck off. How do you not know Rome is old, woman? Like that should be the most obvious ever. But then digging into it, I there was some learning lessons for me there in what she expected out of her very first ever European experience versus what I delivered. Um, so I think my first big like takeaway from this is start with that active listening. Don't start with the defensiveness because our gut is going to want to be defensive, especially with something that we think is trivial or not our fault or something like that. Haley, have have you had any other trivial ones where you're like, this is clearly not my issue?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, tons of times. And I just basically take a minute to see where what went wrong and how it went wrong. And I will definitely go back to the client and give them advice on what to do next. Um, so I've seen situations where a tour operator has changed the pickup point of their tour, and maybe they emailed me at 1 a.m. and I never got to the email, but they decided not to text the client, right? So you kind of look at that. Is it really out of my control? Probably. Um I it was a last minute change. There's really I'm not on my computer at one in the morning, and I'm so sorry you missed your tour. But at the same time, I just point it back to the supplier, right? So why was the client not notified? Why you had their phone number? They weren't talked to. Now, what does a refund look like? So letting them know that you're coming in to help. Okay, I you're pissed you missed your tour. I understand that. Is there something else I can help you plan today or on the rest of your trip that would make up for it? And let me see what I can do to possibly fight for a refund here and what that looks like. Um, so I think it's really how you approach that and show them that you do care, that there was a problem that came up and they're upset and acknowledge the fact that they're upset, I'd be pissed too, right? But there are certain things that are out of your hands and it's really just how you go at it and show them that you care and you're gonna do everything you can to make it right.

SPEAKER_02

But are you really a million-dollar agent if you're not at your computer at 1 a.m., Haley?

SPEAKER_01

No, you are because those boundaries we talk about so much. Um exactly, you will get to the point where I'm not tracking every little thing my clients are doing, right? And it it will happen from time to time, unfortunately. But again, that's why I tell them now, now on my pre-departure calls, if you're there 30 minutes early and you're not having any sign of anything, please go ahead and call 15 minutes prior to reconfirm everything's accurate. Here's how you make an international call, and here's the phone number you're gonna dial just in case. So, again, from this learning experience, I figured out now during my pre-departure calls to set my clients up for what to do ahead of time to make sure that never happens again.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and that's definitely a big proactive step to never getting to the complaint is letting them feel empowered and letting them feel like they are they are in control as well. You know, I always use the line like nobody wakes me up at two in the morning other than my three-year-old. You are not my three year old. So, what I'm gonna do is spend the next 10 minutes making sure that you feel really good about fixing whatever problem you find yourself in when you're traveling. Cause I want to make sure you're really confident when you get on the road. Is that fair? And they always go, Yeah, no, we don't expect you to be up in the middle of the night. Like they make a, you know, some little giggle about it and we're good and we move on. Right. And like it helps because when they find themselves in that moment and they're frustrated and they're like, Well, we called Bird and she didn't answer. Someone in the group goes, It's two in the morning her time. And then I'm instantly forgiven before I've ever even really made the transgression, right? So I think that pre-departure call is a big step in getting you to a place of not getting to the complaint. But let's focus today's conversation on I've got the complaint already and it's in my lap, and how am I reacting to it? So I want to go back for a little bit because I do think a lot of us struggle with the I am defensive because this wasn't my fault. How do you handle? Okay, so I remember you had an issue a few months back where, if I remember correctly, the plane, the type of plane got changed and the woman was bumped out of Comfort Plus or First Class or whatever it was and bumped into a different section. And Delta kind of said, like, you're SOL. They weren't interested in really working with her. They weren't able to work with her. They can't make another seat for a plane, right? Um, and that was very much she was very much blaming you for that scenario. And I and I know you worked hard to fix it for her, but it wasn't fixed, it was something that wasn't fixable at the end of the day. Yep. I'm sure you felt defensive there. Tell us a little bit about how you kept that from coming across in your communication with her.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I think initially, I mean, I've had this situation happen with clients a multitude of times. And this one specific client, I got backlash pretty fast. It was hot and heavy. It was five days before her wedding, six days before departure. Delta came in and actually said, okay, the solution to this is let's have you leave um Italy a day later instead of on the same day. So they changed the flight a day later. So obviously that's not gonna happen. So what do I do? Before I even let the client know it's a problem, I go in to see what the alternatives are. I can immediately get it swapped to the other day, but the the system said, okay, you paid for comfort. So we want to still give you the comfort, so we're gonna just give it to you an extra day later. Um, so I was able to get the seats back, but what happened was from the leg from JFK to Boston, the aircraft changed in size, right? So we can't control this. I I didn't even know really until this it was a thing and it happens frequently, but because of that, they were booted out of their comfort seats into regular main cabin. Long story short, I went in, told the clients, like, don't worry, this is what happened. They changed you to this, but I've already gotten you taken care of. We're gonna change you back. Um, the only thing is on your short hour and 45-minute flight, you're not gonna be in comfort, but the long international leg, you are. And that it was just no, was the answer was you better fix it. I don't care what you have to do, I am flying comfort on that flight. And that was exactly how I was addressed and how I was spoken to, right?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I you can tell this conversation is still a little bit raw, huh? Because it is one of those where it's so I will say, Haley, you're really good about stopping aggressive comments in the moment and saying, hold on, I need to take a step back because I won't be spoken to that way. And I've heard you do that with clients. And I think it's very fair, but most people are really hesitant to do that because we are in a customer service type role. But I think if you don't do that, it's really hard to diffuse the problem. The words that I typically use are more along the lines of like, hold on, I will absolutely address your anger with me. But what I want to do first is address the problem and see if we can fix the problem. And then you and I can discuss my customer service after that. Let's just deal with the facts. And to do that, I need you to not yell at me. I will not be yelled at. This is not how this is gonna go moving forward. And 9.9 times out of 10, the reaction is, you're right. I'm sorry. I you I'm I'm just really frustrated right now. I shouldn't have yelled. We're adults, like in theory, you're dealing with adults the whole time. So I want to empower everyone listening that you need to make sure to diffuse something. If it's gotten to a point where it makes you uncomfortable, if someone is cursing at you, if someone is just being really aggressive, if someone is belittling you, you need to call it out in that moment because it's not going to stop if you don't do it.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that's exactly what I did. I went into it like getting screamed at on a Monday morning at 10 a.m. And my exact words were what you said. I said, listen, we have two options. We can you can sit here and talk to me respectfully, and I can take care of the problem and get it fixed for you. But if you're gonna continue to treat me like that, I'm gonna hang up the phone and I'm not even gonna and and it was fine. It was a okay, let's take it back a notch. Let's go ahead and go ahead and get to work and do what you can do. That entire day, my day was completely monopolized by this because there was truly nothing that I could do. I talked to Delta several times on everything, every possibility. I hung up the phone, called back agents and could not get them to move for the Delta flight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So feel empowered to diffuse the conversation. I think that's step one. If you are the one getting aggressive, defensive, anything like that, I will say one of the best things you can do is say, here's what's gonna happen. I need a minute to dig into this. So what you're doing is you're buying yourself some time because you need to calm yourself down. If you are defensive, it's only gonna make the situation 800,000 times worse. And it's one thing if you were actually at fault, but it's another when you're not at fault and you're getting some complaint and you're getting yelled at because you're more likely to want to get defensive. Bitch, I don't own Delta. What do you want me to do? Like, that's not gonna work for you in the customer service industry. So instead, just take the simple notion of, hey, let me dig into this, let me get them on the phone, let me start making this better for you. And then you and I can pick up this conversation right here. I want to hear all of your feedback. It's very important to me, but I can't, but that's not the time or place right now. Right now, I need to get to work. Let me call you right back, okay? Okay, hang up the phone. And then you need to take a step away from your desk and just take a deep breath and be prepared or prepare yourself kind of mentally, because you're in that fight or flight mode and you're going to start. If you leaned into the fight, you're not gonna make anything better. You're gonna make your life worse, you're gonna cause yourself more stress. So instead, get to what is my plan A, B, and C? Because I find people with a plan tend to be way less aggressive. When you have a this is how I'm gonna solve this problem, or at least this is how I'm gonna start to attempt to solve this problem. It'll make you feel better in the long run. Do you agree with that, Haley? Do you typically kind of lay out the plan for the client or how do you handle it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I get the plan together before I even let them know what the problem is, right? I want to go into it without getting that this is bullshit and dealing with that. So I want to go into it with a plan of, hey, listen, I've already figured out what we need to do here. I just need you to make a decision of what makes sense. So for that specific situation, I, you know, continue to try to work on it. And going back, I wish I I wish I probably did it a little differently, to be honest. I wish I put my foot down a little harder. I spent two days trying to get those Delta comfort seats back, and it just wasn't gonna happen, right? So I think it's I don't know, there's so many different things.

SPEAKER_02

That being said, it shows go ahead. It shows what a great travel advisor you are that you spent two days doing that because people could have told her where to shove it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but I think the reality where you can honestly at the end of the day go, I did everything I could to make this better for you. Like that alone builds your confidence as a travel advisor because you know you're truly great at what you do.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And like I know I would trust anybody in the world with you as their travel advisor because I know you would put in that time and effort. So, yes, some boundaries should be drawn as far as like how to interact with each other, but I love that you really did put all your effort into making something better for her because you wanted the experience to be great, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, of course. I didn't want your honeymoon getting screwed up five days before. That's never my intention. I will bend over backwards every chance I get for my clients, right? So my relationship with my clients is super important. So when you do get that feedback and somebody comes at you, remind you, this was a trip that I worked on with this bride and groom for over 10 months. I met him at a bridal show. Um, we had a lot in common. We hit it off and it just came out of left field. So when that behavior came out of left field, for me, it was like oh shit. Like I get, I do, I get really defensive at first. And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna step back. I'm a professional now, right? Like, I'm gonna approach us in the right manner. So I did. I took a step back and I exactly like you said, Bert, I had to get up and walk away. Like, go ask my husband. If you, if you even mention this to my husband, he's like, Oh yeah, I know exactly what days you're talking about. I remember her. It just like it just changes everything. Like your whole work day, how you're approaching your day. Um, it's hard, right? And you know, the lesson I learned from this was basically, I'm not gonna ever make everybody happy, right? There's gonna be people in this world that don't like me, and that's fine. I have to get over it and understand not everybody's gonna like me. And there's that, and I will never work with this woman again. And that's what it came down to, right? So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's a good life lesson to learn, and I like you, and that's all that matters. Exactly. At the end of the day, okay. So, so let's dive into the other half of this coin. The I messed up, and I'm getting negative feedback because I screwed up. Um, would you be vulnerable here? You want to tell us about some of the maybe a couple of instances where you have messed up and the clients caught the mistake or been negatively impacted by it. And I'm happy to share some of mine as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. I mean, where do I start, Bird? I mean, we can look at things pre-I, there's one incident that really kind of it was like year two for me. I had a client come to me. Um, she wanted to do like Rocky Mountaineer, and we were just ready to close. And this was a client that I lost prior to actually putting deposit down. So I think it's a good lesson of from that situation. She just she was the type of person, she had a nasty attitude. She picked apart every little thing I was doing, and she made sure I knew how unprofessional I was, even though I thought I was pretty professional. Um, I'm glad we never got deposit down because then I didn't feel obligated to her, right? But basically, the big mistake that I made was while I was quoting everything out, I ended up going in and doing just a quick quote on travel insurance so I could give her an idea of what it was gonna cost. When I ran that quote, I put the wrong, I like put the wrong year. So I did like 1953 instead of 63. I sent her over the quote so she could take a look at it. And her exact feedback was, okay, this is this is ridiculous. If you're gonna, if you're gonna fuck this up and you're gonna put, then how can I even trust you to do my trip and uh how do I even know you're gonna do this right? And I'm just like, wow, that's aggressive, right? And like this is a okay, my apologies. And I sat there and I said, No, you're absolutely right. I must have just done the quote really quick and wanted to get over to you fast. And I'm so sorry. Of course, we're not putting money on this yet. So I do triple check everything and you caught the error, no big deal. And she basically walked away right that she don't trust you. I I don't trust you. And I'm like, Okay, do I take that as a blessing? Absolutely, but I'll tell you after that situation. And I'm pretty sure she also told me my voicemail was um, it was not professional either. So after that, I went and put like a nice new voicemail of I am Hayley the travel agent or whatever that was. So this one woman that I'm so glad I never booked with, I she did give me some feedback that I did change just because if she's saying it, maybe somebody else will, right? And now I just triple check everything before I send it to a client.

SPEAKER_02

So here's a pro tip that I'll tell you that I've I've started, I had a business coach years ago tell me to do this, and I've started doing it. So when you get negative feedback, uh you're very emotional about it. Everybody is, it's just how it goes. You either get like, fuck you, that's not right, or you get like, you know, there you're going to get upset about negative feedback. That's human nature. So trying to recap in the moment and kind of debrief and see what did I learn from that is never going to be a healthy exercise. So, what he told me to do is when I get negative feedback is to go onto my calendar and a week from that day, block out space, typically 30 minutes. You don't even need all of the 30 minutes. Um, but what did I learn from my interaction with X and block it out because a week later, you're able to approach it with a more realistic mindset. And I will say I've admitted learnings to myself that I probably would have ignored or kept buried for a lot longer. And I think in what we do, there's so many learnings. And I would argue, Haley, had I called you the day that she gave you that feedback, you probably wouldn't have been like, oh, I actually learned a lot from this woman. But now looking back so so many years later, it's a lot easier for you to approach it and kind of, you know, the emotions aren't there anymore. You lost her so long ago, you haven't talked to her in so long, like you don't really remember it the same way. And you're able to kind of really absorb the learning. So suggestion makes space for the learning, but not immediately. Yeah. Um, one of my biggest mistakes that I made, I'll never forget. Um, this was so bad that I'm like in my bedroom with my laptop bawling, crying. And my husband walked in um with a king size Reese cup and a bottle of white wine. This was when I was still drinking. Like, he's just like, here, I don't know what's gonna make it better, but I love you. It was very kind. But what I had done was this was back during COVID. And um, remember, you had to get the right kind of COVID test at the right space. Um, I, this couple for their honeymoon was going to Hawaii and I had told them to go get their COVID test. Urgent care was one of the sanctioned places for Hawaii at the time. They go get it at, and it was the, you know, you only had 48 hours or so, maybe 24 hours before you departed where you had to get the test. So they did it. They get the paperwork, they go to fill out everything for Hawaii and they get denied. So I'm calling the tourism board in a panic. And I find out that while urgent care is sanctioned, this particular urgent care location was not. And therefore their COVID test was invalid. Well, this was in that space in COVID when you couldn't get the instant test. You had to have the ones that took forever to like go. And I couldn't find them an appointment. There wasn't a lot of tests. Um, anyways, the end of the story is I ended up paying to fly them out to Colorado. We were in Cincinnati, or that's where the clients were. Flew them out to Colorado and they took the test in Colorado and then they flew to Hawaii for their honeymoon and they missed a day. I had to pay for flights to Colorado. I had to pay for all new flights same day, right? To get them to where they needed to go. Um, I had to pay for their night in the hotel. I I was out of pocket several thousand dollars. And I was also a year or two in the business and just heartbroken. I mean, I felt genuinely like I ruined someone's honeymoon. This client wasn't yelling at me. Um, but I also wasn't in a space of learning because I was so defensive and I was so upset and I was beating myself up, and it was very much a how could you be this dumb kind of moment, right? And I will say what I took away from the end that was really important was the fact that there are details and there are there there are details that will be missed in this industry. There just are. And there are important ways to react to it. I think what I did right in the scenario was as soon as they called me and told me what was happening, I said, let me dig into it right now. And I hung up. I did not want to say, well, no, I definitely sent you to the right place. You know, I didn't do that. Instead, I kind of was like, maybe I messed it up. I don't know. Let me dig into it.

SPEAKER_01

You have to admit it when you when you're wrong, you have to just bite it and admit it.

SPEAKER_02

And and from step one, I called him back and was like, here, here's the situation. That was not a sanction, urgent care. Um, you guys, can we like never do COVID again? That was such a nightmare to navigate. Like, I remember being on the phone with St. Lucia at two in the morning, like crying because some code didn't go through. So that was not a fun year to have people travel. Um, but yes, like I think the fact that I owned up to it immediately and said, like, I'm gonna do whatever I can to get you there, were they upset that they missed a whole day of their honeymoon? Obviously. Like, were they also understanding that things go wrong and things happen? Yes. And I think they were understanding because I said, I messed this up. This is all my fault, and I will do everything I can to make it better. I think had I gone in and been like, well, I don't think that that was the right test that you guys took or you know, tried to spin the tables. I don't know that their reaction would have been the same. I don't think it would have been as calm.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Any other big mistakes you've made that you want to own up to or have some learning lessons you want to tell us about?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, another big thing I see, not only for myself, but coaching. Um, I've seen a lot of advisors in situations as well. I would say I guess some negative feedback I've really gotten is sending clients to what I would consider their ideal hotel or ideal destination that maybe didn't truly align with what they were looking for. Um, so obviously when a client travels and they come back and give you feedback, it hurts when they tell you, oh, my time in Paris sucked. I hated the hotel. And you're like, wait a minute, why? Um I've been in that situation multiple times, right? Where now I go into consultations, more in depth questions, understanding budget. And now my conversations with money are much stronger because I'm realistic about what they really want to spend is going to get them. And if it doesn't align, I'm not afraid to tell them. Um, I had a client once who 30-year anniversary sent them to Paris. They were meeting friends down in Lower Valley. Um, and I was doing the pre and post, right? And in the pre, I put them at the peninsula in Paris. Absolutely beautiful. But they didn't really tell me that budget wasn't a problem, right? So I did that budget conversation wasn't really there. I still put them in a five-star property in Paris, but it was not the five-star property that met their expectations. So, for example, the feedback I got was, and this was in destination, I was getting texts sent to me, like the doorman's not even holding the door for us. The the Wi-Fi right now is so bad I had to leave my room to go into a conference room. Um, their Eiffel Tower Paris, it rained like the three days they were there, and they never came up to try to dry off their terrace so they could actually enjoy it. There was just like this, so whatever. It was the the hotel did not match what their expectations were. And of course, this is a client who spent money the same trip he sent me his friends that were going down to Lower Valley. So I did I ended up booking about three trips just from him. And all I could do was apologize, right? Because I didn't know. I I feel like I did fuck up. It was I chose that property. I presented a couple, he ultimately picked it, but it wasn't his expectation. So when he got home, you know, I send the email of let's hop on a call. And I just braced myself. I'm like, listen, I know I'm gonna go into this call, it's gonna be tough, but I have to do it. He wants it, so that's what's gonna happen. So I got on the call and he definitely pulled and picked it all apart. And all I did was apologize to him and say, Listen, I guess I didn't take the time to really understand how you and your wife travel. My sincerest apologies. You know, if you choose to book with me again, I promise you I will go more in depth to make sure that you're taken care of. And after that conversation, he told me he wants to plan his 30-year anniversary to Greece, right? And he gave me another chance to make it right. Not only that, it's blossomed into an amazing relationship. And it's because I faced the negative feedback head on, right? I was willing to admit I was wrong and I was willing to make sure it was right. So when his next trip came with his wife, it was like blown out of the park. It was we doubled the budget. The budget went up severely because now I knew what the expectations were, but I was able to tell him listen, this is this is what you truly want. I it's gonna cost the money to get there. So yeah, there are wins in the negative feedback. So I want everybody to know that as well.

SPEAKER_02

There absolutely are wins. Um, there's one more big one that I want to share because I think some people listening maybe facing this situation. Um, and I had this more than one time. So I did not learn my lesson the first time around. But when I was moving into management um and out of really selling day to day, what was really interesting was I had a problem letting go. Um, I still do, I will be honest about that. But my problem letting go was that um I would agree to take on the trip in the front half and then basically realized I didn't have the time to service it the way that I wanted to on the back half. And one client in particular, um, I had never worked with him before. He was a referral. So it should have been very easy for me to let go and trust someone on my team that I had trained to take this on. And I knew he had the budget though. I knew he was gonna spend $40,000. And if I'm honest with myself, it was a moment of greed. I was like, that's eight grand. I could plan this really quick. It's to France. I know France liked the back of my hand. I'm gonna take it on. So I did. Um, the trip was to Chemini. It was beautiful. It's it was a fantastic trip. But his feedback was, and this person turned out to be just aggressively needy, texting me two and three times a day. I'm talking like six months before the trip was even departing. Like it was a, we had a lot of communication, and I wasn't interested in that, if I'm gonna be very honest. I was really interested in in managing my company and building my company and spending more and more time doing that. So I would often wait a day or two to respond to him, and I would have all of the answers in once and be like, here's one long answer to your 90 questions you texted me. Um, but it wasn't the service he wanted. It wasn't the white glove service that he signed up for. And I knew that. And I still didn't give it away. I still didn't bring somebody else in. And I'm mad at myself to this day about it because my team would have never given that service. My team would have answered those two to three texts every single day and been all over it. And my advisors would have really appreciated that business. Um, so my moment agreed lost me the repeat client. He's never repeated with me since, as he probably should not have. Um, but he's never repeated with me since. And I didn't take the time to own up and say, look, I'm moving into management and I really want to focus on growing my company. I don't want to be a frontline travel advisor in this moment. What I should do is I should loop in one of my travel agents to really help service this trip the way you need, and then I should have given it away. Um, so to this day, I beat myself up over it. And I I had one other instance that it was the same thing. It was, it was a very expensive trip and I took it on and I shouldn't have. And so if you're finding yourself in that transition or period, I just want to encourage you that it you don't have to, even if you have already taken it on and you've already planned it and you've already booked it, it's never too late to bring in somebody to help you. So you could always say, like, hey, travel agent on my team, will you come in and really service this booking and I'll give you 50% of the commission or whatever it looks like. You could give it up at any time. It's never too late to give amazing service. Um, I learned that the hard way. And what is silly is I did it out of a place agreed. And if I'm gonna be honest with myself and think about the numbers, I would have made way more money had he still stayed in my network and repeated year after year. This person always takes very expensive trips like that. Um, so out of my own dumbness at the end of the day, um, there's two specific clients I can think of that I should have given away that I didn't, that I've now lost to my network. So I think it's really important to admit to yourself when you have too much on your plate and you can't take something on. So even if you're not moving into management, you just take in too much on, admit it. Be honest. It's not going to save you money or make you more money in the long run.

SPEAKER_01

Are you talking to me indirectly, Bird? Because I feel like you are. Um, I'm not. That was absolutely me looking in the mirror. No, I I totally agree. I'm kind of in that transitional phase as well. And it's hard. It's hard to give up a lead. It's hard to match somebody who's friends with one of your friends to somebody else, but you know it's it's just too hard right now for you. Um, I think just being transparent with them and telling them, hey, I'm gonna match it with somebody great, they'll appreciate it. But I agree with you. I think the feedback I hear a lot is communication and that lack thereof of what their expectations of turnaround time for emails. I just had I had a client who asked me about four months ago, are you really even a full-time travel agent? Because I was letting the time go between the responses because yeah, I got a little annoyed with a lot of the questions that didn't matter right now, and I was really busy for it. But what I did is I just by not replying and putting it off a week, then I just open myself to get that comment. Of course, I'm gonna get defensive off of it. Um no, I absolutely am a full-time travel agent. Thank you very much. I've been for years. I I thank you so much for the feedback. Thank you for realigning me and I'll make sure I've so now naturally every email I get, I'm trying to get it out 24 hours. Um, so yeah, I think that's another big thing clients will complain about a lot is yeah, I try getting a hold of my travel agent. I didn't hear from them for two days. Two days to some people is a lifetime. So the sooner you reply, the better and quicker it's off your plate.

SPEAKER_02

I will also tell you just the simple, hey, I'm still working on it and I haven't forgotten about you is a big deal. If you use Outlook, one of my favorite things you can do in Outlook is snooze an email. I will just snooze it 48 hours, knowing I'm not gonna get to it the next 48 hours, but I'll snooze it for 48 hours and then I respond, I haven't forgotten you. I'm gonna get back to this, and I'll snooze it again for a couple of days. Um, and that snooze feature really keeps me on top of things. If you're not utilizing it, it is like the number one way to stay just to not forget things, to not let the balls drop, the the things like that. One one way that I want to shift the conversation to, though, is there's a big difference between a dissatisfied client and somebody that's just completely unreasonable. Well walk us through how to approach both of those.

SPEAKER_01

A dissatisfied client, I feel like you can really I don't know. I like I just said with my other client, he was obviously dissatisfied with the hotel, but I during our conversation, he felt my sincerity of how bad I felt about it. So he was willing to give me another chance, right? I think that makes a difference. And you said the other type of client between somebody that's just completely unreasonable. Yeah. Unreasonable clients. I I've had a handful, not a lot, luckily. I think that's why it hurts so bad when you get a client who's unreasonable because usually I can pivot people, I can make them understand. So I feel like I have failed at customer service if I cannot get an unreasonable client um to understand what I'm trying to say to them. So I think with unreasonable clients, you need to be a little more I don't want to say forceful, but you need to definitely set your ground and set your boundaries and make sure you're not getting treated bad. I think that's first and foremost. I think a dissatisfied client, I don't know. I guess it depends how they approach a situation bird, right? And and how they're gonna talk to you. Everybody's so different.

SPEAKER_02

I think I'm more likely to apologize and and own a problem when it's mine. Somebody that's unreasonable kind of comes across as it, I cannot fix this problem for you. So let's go back to my very first example I gave, this lady that was upset that Rome was old, right? That's not my fault. But in listening to her, what I did not pick on the pick up on the first time around, which I have become a much better listener over the years, is she kept saying she wanted to go to Rome. She called me and said, I want to go to Rome. Like there was no beating her on the bush. But the way she was describing her experience was she wanted something very modern. She said those words and I ignored them completely. Um, she's like, I just like when a city is like very modern, very vibrant, very alive, very she used the word clean. I don't know if any of it like I wouldn't describe any part of Italy necessarily as clean. Like, so I'm like, there's what she really wanted at the end of the day was she wanted Tokyo. Or Barcelona, maybe, right? Yeah, she she called me for Rome, but it the way she described, and again, she had never been to Europe. So I I should have taken so much more time to set the right expectations. Um, but what I didn't hear the first time around was the way she was really describing her experience simply didn't fit Rome. And what I should have done was say, hey, I just want you to know, like, that's not really what you're gonna get out of what you're requesting. Should we, yeah, let me tell you why. Let me tell you a couple of other options that we can listen to. And I think it just would have gone a lot differently because had I at least called it out, what it would have done for her is made her take ownership of the decision. Instead, she felt like it was my decision and I had put her in a place that was dissatisfactory to her. Um, so, anyways, I think if you can really listen to the client, you're gonna avoid that negative feedback more often than not. But Haley, what I love about you and what I love throughout this conversation is you've really talked about owning the negative feedback and facing the negative feedback. Has there never been a time where you're like, I'm just not gonna respond to this? I just want to ostrich and pretend it doesn't exist. And is it going to go away?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's not gonna go away. I mean, if it does, it does. I mean, I had a client who went to Pulia, right? So last September they ended up going. We were back and forth multiple times, and I tried explaining okay, you want private drivers, but you want to rent a car. So let's talk through this and make sense of it because I'm not understanding. And sure as shit, no matter what, they wanted a driver to take them on the day trips to go see all the things, but they just wanted the car to get them from A to B. So on the days that they did the day trips, and I went over this multiple times with them. And what happened? They got in destination, they finally got there, then they realized they could do everything with their rental car and they wanted to cancel their the remaining two tours. They didn't want to be, but it was non-refundable at this point. And and I sat here and obviously he was upset, right? And I ended up FaceTiming them in destination. So my solution was okay, they're coming at me in a text. If somebody's coming at me in a text, I stop it right then and there because it's gonna get misconstrued. I want them to see my face, I want them to hear my sincerity, I want to truly understand what's going on so I can help them fix it. And I thought I she picks up the phone, they're like getting ready for bed, and they're just telling, like, hey guys, like, oh, you look so fat. Like, I'm so sorry. Let's talk through this so I can understand. And I took that time to understand why they no longer wanted to do it, right? And I said, Listen, unfortunately, we're in non-refundable situation here, and this is what it's gonna look like. I'm gonna go back to the driver, see if there's anything we can do. I I'm gonna root for you guys all day. But here's this, right? The client got home and they asked me, Haley, was there any type of refund? And I had to tell them no. They lost probably like over $3,000 in two private day tours. Like it was a lot of money, and that was a really hard pill to swallow because no matter what I did, I couldn't change the outcome. I was not gonna give them $3,000 to make up for it because I prepared them for this. I already said to them this is what it's gonna be like. And that was it. He told me, like, thank you so much. But the resolution at the end of this was basically, we appreciate your time. Thank you for everything you've done. But moving forward, we truly think that we probably don't need a travel agent, is what it came down to. And I said, Okay, no harm, no fat. Like I understand and I get that and I respect that. And there was nothing else I could do. They just, you know, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02

What I will tell you though, that I think has saved you time and time again, because it because anyone listening out there, especially if you're brand new, you will have negative feedback, period. Dot. Things go wrong in travel and it is completely out of your hands. You could be the most perfect travel agent on the planet. It doesn't matter. You're getting negative feedback. And what I think is really important about the way that you handle negative feedback is you understand the value of those, um, like the tonality of your voice, the making eye contact with them. Like I think that so many people just want to hide behind an email or they want to hide behind a text message. And I've got to tell you, you are gonna get so much further in the relationship if you pick up the phone and say, let's talk through this. What you really wanna do is make sure they understand that you are doing what you can to help them, no matter what it is. And that one had a negative outcome. I hear you, it wasn't perfect. But at the end of the day, more and more of your clients do come back to you because they have empathy around what you're dealing with as well, right? And they they hear the sincerity in your voice and they hear the sadness in your tone as you're like, man, I really wish there was something I can do because you're authentic.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Authenticity does not come through text message. Sorry, Gen Z, it's not gonna work. Like, you really need to lean into the phone and lean into the FaceTime and lean into being able to really, really communicate with your client. And with nonverbal communication being such a huge part of communication, you can't just do it over text, especially when there's a negative feedback situation. You're gonna get to the positive side of things so much more quickly if you take the time to pick up the phone. Just period. That's going to be an easier way to live life. It's going to be uncomfortable for you in the beginning, but it will be easier in the end. Exactly. Yep. Absolutely. Um, one of our core values that I think is really, really important is do the right thing. Um, this has been a core value for day one. I will tell you, I stole it from when I worked at Zillow. I worked at Zillow for a decade. They were the company that had all the core values painted all over the walls. Uh, we talked about it all the time. And one of the ones I always really loved was do the right thing. Um I've had to be put in positions before where I've had to remind myself of that, especially if it is something I could have blamed on the vendor, blamed on the tour operator or something like that. And I will say, do the right thing often costs me lots of money. So um, have you been put in a scenario where you needed to do the right thing and it did cost you money at the end of the day? And how do you kind of process those expenses and that those feelings around those mistakes?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I've I'm probably have told this story several times. Um, one of my great clients retiree and likes to spend a lot of money when he travels on a Sunday morning. I woke up to text that their black lane transfer had arrived for them and they were not in destination. They were, I mean, they were, they were, it was a month out until their trip. And I'm like, shit, like obviously it's gonna charge for this. So right away I look, I'm like, yep, I messed up the date. I did, you know what I mean? We didn't catch it, and there's that. Um, the thing was, I just literally booked this on Friday. So this is not the first time it's happened to me. I've done it multiple times at this point. Um, but I booked it on Friday, let it go, sent it off, and waited to recheck it come Monday, but I made the mistake for that Sunday. So I just didn't have time to fix it. Long story short, the client's like, Haley, what's going on? Got on the phone, I called them. I'm like, hey, listen, I I'm not even gonna lie to you. I'm I can't even bullshit myself. I I mess up. I what I'm gonna do. Do you have a Venmo, PayPal? What do you have? I'm gonna send you over that cost right now. We're gonna go ahead and get you rebooked on the next transfer. What I did was I didn't I made him still pay for the next transfer, right? I reimbursed him for the transfer that I screwed up, if that made sense. Absolutely. I wasn't gonna then at that point compensate both of them. It was still something I could fix and do. I have talked to a lot of travel agents who are just willing to put money out there to fix the problem. I will tell you right now, if you can not do that, try not to, um, unless you have to, right?

SPEAKER_02

There's not a ton of margin in this industry. And I think travel agents often approach it as if there is. You know, they're putting a hundred dollar bottle of wine in a client's room, and it's like, I hear you, but there is a difference between nice versus necessary. And that's where I want this conversation to go is you really need to take a step back and say what is necessary for great client service and what's just nice. What is icing on the cake? You don't need to do the nice thing. You need to do the necessary thing, do the right thing, right? And what I'll say is the way that we work it is we have a separate bank account for something we call client goodwill. It hurts when you need to spend money to make something right. It sucks. And especially when you're brand new at this. I mean, I remember speaking with a travel agent a couple of years back and she made a $3,000 mistake on her second trip she'd ever booked. And I was like, look, I hear you, but you will make the money back, right? Like if you continue to do this, you'll make the money back. So what I would recommend have that second, that separate bank account, title it client goodwill, throw some money in there and never touch it unless it is to reimburse a client for something that is necessary, not nice, something that is necessary. That's when you reimburse the clients. It hurts a little less when you already have it set aside. And the reality is it should be part of your annual budget. It is also something you can expense from your taxes. So just thinking of it that way. So the way that we do it is we do we set aside roughly about 5% of the revenue we're going to make. Luckily, we have never needed that much. Um, but it's something to think about. Um, if you are brand new starting off, you've never done this. I would say set aside about $2,000. And again, hope that you don't mess up and don't need it and don't need to touch it. Um, but you may, and when you do, it's there. And it makes it so much easier to swallow the pill when you already have it set aside. I would also say always do the right thing because if the client comes back and realizes you don't, this is an industry that deals with an inordinate amount of lawsuits, more so than other industries, to the point where if you try to go out and get general liability insurance, it's actually pretty difficult as a travel agency to get certain types of insurance because our industry deals with so much fraud, it deals with so many lawsuits, it deals with all these problems that you don't see as common in the window washing business or in other service industry businesses. So do the right thing is something that is really important to me. And I think preparing yourself so it's easier to do the right thing when the time comes is really the way to go here. Um, Haley, there's one more piece that I really want to get to, and something that I've often heard you say is how you empathize with the client to help kind of diffuse the whole situation so that I understand why you feel this way, right? Like I understand you. Talk to me about how you empathize with the client, why you do it this way, and how it helps you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I don't, I feel like I just go into it as okay, you're obviously upset. I'm gonna first and foremost acknowledge that and I'm gonna sit here and tell you I understand exactly how you feel. I would be pissed off too. I'm gonna put myself in their position and I'm gonna try to understand whatever the problem is. How would I react to it? And I'm gonna be honest, I'm a person who reacts. Like I react to when shit doesn't go right for me, I'll react to it. So I think for me, I'm very empathetic in that sense. Um, I want the client to know that I care. I think that's just the biggest thing. Like, I'm not doing this just to book your trip and be dumb. Like, I want to service you, that's what I'm here for. So yeah, I think being empathetic is helpful. Um, I used to work in an industry where when somebody was pissed off, I was face to face to them, right? Like I had no choice. I had to deal with a situation right then and there in live time. Um, so that definitely has helped a bit. I think I've been able to build a little more confidence in that aspect of being a little more empathetic.

SPEAKER_02

That's fair. And I want to say part of that empathy is understanding that sometimes clients just have a bad day, but you can't necessarily be like, Do you think maybe you're tired from your red eye flight? Like, that's probably not the way to approach the empathy. That is probably true, and it's probably why they're so emotional. And you should absolutely like have that in the back of your mind. Like, I bet tomorrow will be different. I bet they're just tired. Travel days are always hard. We know that. Um, take that into account. But when you when you empathize with them, it should be a lot of like, I hear you, I understand repeating the problem back to them is usually a great way to help somebody feel like they've been heard repeating this is my next steps of what I'm gonna do so that they feel really good about the action that is being taken. Even if it's simply I'm gonna reach out to the hotel and see if anything can be done.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Like it doesn't need to be I'm going to fix this for you. It could be, I will make sure to reach out to that tour operator and I'll let you know when you get home what the verdict is, or whatever it is, just some kind of here's my next step. I think is really, really important. Um, Haley, I'm I'm assuming you've had a client that's had a bad day.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, so what kind of popped up in my head? I had clients once who um flew into Athens from an island and they stayed at this cute boutique hotel. I can't think of it right now, but as you know, Athens being a bigger city, the the problem was they were coming in at night. So I was getting text messages at like nine o'clock of Haley, where did you send us? We feel like this is so sketchy, like there's graffiti on the wall. And it's like a Saturday, and I'm just like, fuck, I don't want to deal with this right now. So what do I do? I could sit there and ignore it, but no, I'm gonna empathize with a client. I'd be like, hey guys, like I'm so happy you made it to Athens. I know exactly how you feel. Like, what I can promise you, you guys are in a very safe neighborhood. You're coming in at night and it's unfamiliar territory. So hang tight. Please wake up in the morning and let me know how you're feeling. And if you're not still feeling good, then we're gonna go ahead, we'll come up with a solution. But just try to get some rest and and whatever and let me know. Sure shit the next morning. Haley, thank you so much. Everything's fine, everything's great, blah, blah, blah. And they were just stressed out because it was nighttime and they didn't know, hey, you know, it's Athens, it's gonna be a little sketchy if you've never been there, and there's that. So I think just taking a minute to to I hear you. Yeah, it is. You're absolutely right. Just it's gonna be okay, right? And a little more of that hand holding, or I don't know. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely. Hand holding's a good way to put it. Um, and to all my Grecian friends, I love Greece. Don't don't take that as a negative. Absolutely. I grew up in New Orleans, also, not a clean place, lots of sketchy places. So, one thing that I I want to say is let's kind of wrap this up with our approaches to live feedback and the moment feedback are basically do everything you can to actually have a conversation with them, not through text, not through email. Try to talk to them, try to um make sure they feel heard, try to repeat back the problem to them, try to make sure that you've got some next steps and what your action plans are. But we also receive negative feedbacks in other ways, such as reviews. So I wanted to talk a little bit about like when you get a negative review and how we've always handled it. So we literally have over a thousand reviews on Google at this point, and it's it's part of our practice that we respond to all of them. Um, but the negative reviews are the ones that I feel like purposely really intense that the response has to be right. The response cannot be like, I the driver said he was waiting for you. It's not my fault that you weren't there, right? Like that doesn't look good. Because what you're doing is you're creating this record for people to see forever. And you can only respond once, right? So you need to make it right. And I don't know about you guys, but when I'm looking at a hotel or a restaurant, I'm evaluating something, I always look at the reviews. And I don't go to the positive reviews, I always go to the one-star reviews first and I read those because what I could do is I could decipher if there's a problem or if you have some negative Nancy's, because those are different, right? Um, so for me, if somebody leaves a one-star review, which we have had happen, luckily very, very, very infrequently. Um, but we have had it. It's important to respond to it in a way that says, like, I hear you, I'm going to dig into it, I'm gonna do what you can. Now, I also try to get these people on the phone. Right after I see it's there, I respond to the review because you don't want to just get them on the phone. Because if I do that, then the next person that is evaluating whether or not to use my travel agency, uh, it appears that I never responded. It appears that I don't care, even though I obviously deeply, deeply do care. So I want to just put out there like, don't ever not respond, especially if it's a public review. And then I also want to comfort you in letting you know that Google only uh weights reviews that are usually the last six months have the highest weight. And as they get older, the weight goes down and down. So you may see that a negative review brings you down from a five-star to a 4.9. And then you may notice six months later you haven't necessarily got any more reviews, but you're back up to a five. It's because the negative review has aged out. So as long as you um, if you need, feel comforted by the fact that Google doesn't wait it forever. We're all going to get negative feedback at some point, like I've said. So it's more or less making sure that you respond and making sure that it never appears to be a pattern. That's where the problems really tend to exist. Haley, do you handle online reviews differently in any way?

SPEAKER_01

No, I think I feel like four star reviews sting. I don't know. I always follow up with four-star reviews like, hey, what happened? Did you not see the fifth star? I'm really confused. Um, but I strive for five. Yeah, yeah, I all the time. Um, but I always ask, like, hey, was there something that could have made it a five just in case? And I just do it because I want the other one. I want them to be like, oh my goodness, I didn't realize a four affects you, or you know what? You were you were amazing, Haley. Then I really don't care. Um, but I feel like welcome home calls are kind of a good, a good place to understand reviews. And you kind of put that on them, like, hey, fill out the review before our welcome home call. They're gonna typically leave a good review. Um, I've had clients leave me three stars, right? Like, I think I've gotten a one star before. I'm not gonna lie. There's been some clients that weren't happy with certain things. Like it usually it's out of my control, and and that's what it is. But yeah, I just go into it. I had one client who actually left me a three-star review and I knew about it, and she came back with me in a book again. And the re the what I got from her was the feedback of, oh, with Haley, I just never know if we're texting or if we're emailing. And I'm like, oh, okay, so the communication's off for you and we need to realign it. So she didn't know I knew that the review was her, but I went back and I said to her, I'm like, okay, listen, I'm happy to book this trip. Obviously, she wasn't willing to not give me up as a travel agent. But what I did from there is I explained to her, listen, during the booking process, I will always text you because things are time sensitive, and it's really important for me to be in touch with you as soon as possible. After that, we can revert to email. That's perfectly fine. Um, so I just had to kind of realign and set expectations for her. So, and guess what? She just got home from a river cruise and left me a five-star review. So yeah, exactly. So it's it really is just how you approach it and yeah, learn from it.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. All right, what are we taking away from this episode? You should be taking away the fact that voice negativity is so much easier to distill than text negativity, just because of the fact that you absolutely have empathy. If you are doing this job, it's because you like to serve people at the end of the day. And they need to understand that the client needs to hear that, and it's really hard to hear it through text. So, as often as you can, make sure that they have the moment to understand nonverbals. So, video is going to be your best bet, but voice is the next good second. Um, always have empathy towards their situation. Say, I understand, I hear you, I will work on it. Always explain what the next steps are. Take ownership of the problem if it's you. Um, Haley and I always joke because we both waited tables for so long. And my biggest pet peeve in the world is when a waiter blames the kitchen. No, you forgot to put in my order. Just say it, right? Don't blame someone else. Just take ownership. I have so much more empathy towards people when they say I messed up, but I'm gonna do everything I can to make it right. Um, humans want to support other humans at the end of the day. So if you are honest about your mistakes, your clients will understand. All right, make sure you have empathy, make sure you own up to your mistakes. And then last but not least, is do not forget to learn from them. It is really hard to learn in the moment. So I make the humble suggestion to put something on your calendar a week out and learn from a moment when you're not in this like heightened emotional state. Um, because we can all learn from our mistakes, and the more you learn from them, the less likely you are to repeat them. Haley, did I miss anything? Any other last minute uh tidbits you want to throw in?

SPEAKER_01

No, that's you nailed it, Bird. I think just go into it, assuming you can fix it and they're gonna be happy and take it from there.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

All right, guys. Couple of big things before we uh log off. I want you guys to remember that we do have a Facebook group where we've started a lot of these conversations. The Facebook group is also called the Travel Agent Guide. We have been posting webinars every other week. We're doing live in-depth workshops. These are not us talking to you, these are us breaking out into small group sections and working on different problems. Um, so please join us for our live webinars every other week. And then we're also doing a live in-person event on November 6th. That is a Friday. This is gonna be a full-day event where we are also going to be really, really focused on workshops. This is not for necessarily the brand new travel agent, even though I'm sure you'll take away lots of good stuff. Um, Haley and I are more focused on people in the industry that have been doing this that need to really take themselves to the next level. So that's what we're building out. That's what we're excited about. We'll give you more information about registration in the coming weeks. But go ahead and mark it off on your calendars, and we can't wait to talk to you. We release a new episode of this podcast every single Wednesday. All right, see you next week.