Curiouser & Curiouser
Curiouser & Curiouser is a podcast for leaders, builders, and curious minds navigating AI, GenAI safety, and governance in a rapidly changing world.
Produced by Alice, the enterprise trust, safety, and security platform for the AI era, the show draws on frontline adversarial intelligence to explore how AI systems are stress-tested, red-teamed, governed, and protected across their lifecycle.
Each episode looks at how AI is actually showing up in the real world, how organizations evaluate it, where it breaks, and what it takes to build systems people can trust.
We cut through hype and fear to explore how AI shapes trust, decision-making, and real-world work, one rabbit hole at a time.
Explore more from Alice:
Website: https://alice.io
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Alice.io.advance.unafraid
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/alice-io
X: https://x.com/alice_dot_io
Contributors
Mo Sadek
Mo is an AI security practitioner with over a decade of experience in application and product security, spanning hands-on engineering, program building, and cross-functional leadership. At Alice, he focuses on advancing how organizations understand, test, and manage real-world risks in AI systems, helping bridge security research, product reality, and emerging AI governance needs.
Guests
Caroline Wong
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David Wendt
David A. Wendt, PhD helps executives, innovators, and tech leaders turn uncertainty about AI into actionable trust and clarity. With 30+ years guiding Fortune 100/200 organizations through strategic change, he blends systems thinking, storytelling, and practical frameworks to make AI governance accessible and impactful.
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Diana Kelley
Diana Kelley is CISO at Noma Security. She has held senior security leadership roles at Microsoft, IBM Security, Symantec, and Protect AI. She is co-author of Practical Cybersecurity Architecture, a LinkedIn Learning instructor on AI/ML security, and a 2023 Global Cyber Security Hall of Fame inductee.
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Dr. Janet Bastiman
Chair of the Royal Statistical Society’s Data Science and AI Section, Vice Chair of the Royal Statistical Society’s AI Task Force and member of FCA’s Synthetic Data Expert Group, Janet started coding in 1984 and discovered a passion for technology and complex problem solving. She holds multiple degrees and a PhD in Computational Neuroscience. Janet has helped both start-ups and established businesses implement and improve their AI offering prior to applying her expertise as Chief Data Scientist at Napier. Janet regularly speaks at conferences worldwide on topics in AI including explainability, testing, efficiency, and ethics.
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James Villarrubia
James Villarrubia is an accomplished CTO and applied AI expert. As Group CTO of AnyRes, he leads AI and technology across four global travel brands driving ~$3B in annual bookings, redefining the travel experience for both customers and operators. Previously, he was a Presidential Innovation Fellow with NASA Aeronautics, where he helped develop sustainable aviation and next-generation AI solutions. He also brings senior policy and portfolio experience from the White House, DOJ, and DOD.
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Joseph Carson
Joseph Carson is an award-winning cybersecurity professional with more than 30 years of experience securing enterprises, governments, and critical infrastructure around the world. As the Chief Security Evangelist and Advisory CISO at Segura, Joseph helps organizations build identity-first security strategies that are resilient, measurable, and aligned with modern business realities. A globally recognized expert in identity security, privileged access, and cyber defense, Joseph is the author of Cybersecurity for Dummies, one of the most widely read cybersecurity primers with more than 50,000 readers. He is also the host of the Security by Default podcast, where he explores modern security challenges with global experts and industry leaders.
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Julie Tsai
Julie Tsai is a CISO-in-Residence at Ballistic Ventures, board member of the Bay Area CSO Council, and cybersecurity leader for AI Insiders. A six-time CISO and SecDevOps specialist, she’s led security at organizations ranging from startups to Fortune 1 companies, including Roblox, WalmartLabs, and Box. Julie advises startups, teaches cybersecurity, and focuses on using AI and DevSecOps to build stronger, more responsible security practices.
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Laura Powell
Laura Powell is a technical leader working at the intersection of AI, risk, and reality. For over a decade, she’s built and led AI, data, privacy, and governance programs in high-growth environments, helping teams turn fast-moving innovation and regulatory pressure into practical, production-ready systems. Today, she focuses on responsible AI and operationalizing trust without slowing progress.
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Mea Clift
Mea Clift is the Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) at Cengage, a seasoned cybersecurity executive known for aligning security strategy with enterprise risk and resilience. With decades of experience, she specializes in governance, risk, and compliance (GRC), helping organizations navigate complex threats and translate technical risk into clear business value.
A 2025 honoree of the Women in IT Security awards and finalist for Cybersecurity Woman Leader of the Year 2026, Mea is widely recognized for her leadership, mentorship, and advocacy for diversity in cybersecurity.
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Phil Venables
Phil is a Partner at Ballistic Ventures where he focuses on early stage cyber and cyber-adjacent investments and supporting the growth of a leading portfolio of companies. He is also a Senior Advisor at Warburg Pincus working on private equity investments across a range of sectors.
Before this Phil was the first Chief Information Security Officer of Google Cloud where he led the risk, security, compliance, and privacy teams and drove many AI security initiatives. Before joining Google, he was a Partner at Goldman Sachs where he held multiple roles over a long career, initially as their first Chief Information Security Officer, a role he held for 17 years.
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Sandy Dunn
Sandy Dunn is the Chief Information Security Officer at Knowtion Health, a cybersecurity executive with 20+ years across manufacturing, healthcare, and startups. She created and leads the OWASP Top 10 for LLM and GenAI Threat Defense COMPASS.
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Steve Wilson
Steve Wilson is Chief AI and Product Officer at Exabeam and founder and co-chair of the OWASP GenAI Security Project. He leads work on securing large language models and agentic systems, and is the author of The Developer’s Playbook for Large Language Model Security (O’Reilly). His career spans Sun Microsystems, Citrix, and Oracle, with 11 patents across cybersecurity and networking.