Episode 14 - The Women Who Raised Us

This week’s episode is a special one. 💛

In honor of Mother’s Day and Maternal Mental Health Month, we sat down with our moms for a conversation about motherhood across generations—the things that have changed, the things that haven’t, and the lessons we continue to carry forward.

This episode is full of perspective, laughter, honesty, and some really meaningful reminders about what actually matters in the long run.

More than anything, this conversation reminded us that motherhood was never meant to be carried alone—and that every generation is learning how to do this a little differently, and hopefully a little more supported.

Whether you’re in the thick of motherhood, missing your mom, navigating your own healing, or simply needing a reminder that you’re not alone… we hope this episode feels like sitting in the room with us.

💛 Maternal mental health matters.
💛 Support matters.
💛 Moms deserve spaces where they can be honest about how they’re doing.

Thank you for being here with us.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Welcome to Messy Minded Mama, a podcast for moms who look managed but might feel a bit messy on the inside. I'm Keith.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

And I'm Jen, and we are here creating space for real talk about motherhood, mental health, and the invisible load so many women carry. Welcome back to Messy Minded Mama. We are so excited as we head into Mother's Day this week to have new special guests on with Kate and I. We have both invited our own moms. And I don't know what we're gonna hear today, but we're excited to dive in. We're excited to have the conversation and introduce you guys to the women who have been a part of our lives as long as our lives have existed. So welcome to our moms. Maybe we'll start Kate with just a quick intro of your mom first, and then I can do mine.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Yeah, so I have my mom Sue here. She is joining us virtually from Iowa today. And I don't know, mom, what do you want to do, what do you want to say for your intro?

SPEAKER_03 1:20

For my intro. Um I'm Kate's mom and I have another daughter, Madeline. And then uh we're a blended family, so I have three other kiddos as well, and they're all either in Iowa or Colorado. And between all those kiddos, we have four lovely grandchildren. Um, and I'm excited to uh talk a little more about Katie so you can get to know her a little bit better for good or for bad, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

We love that again. We don't know what we're gonna hear today, but we're here for it and ready for it. So, Sue, so happy to have you here with us. I will introduce my mom. I have Nola with me, and so happy she could be here. She's with me today in my little home office space because she lives just up the road, about 35 minutes from me.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

So, mom, what do you want to say about yourself or intro? Oh, I just want to say I'm so happy to be here and be with Jen and Kate and be a part of this. Um, we have four grandchildren, family, and I have three other children in addition to Jen. Um, she's the youngest of the four, so we're just excited to talk about her and tell you more about her. Yeah. Love their memories.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Perfect. Well, we're so excited and grateful that you guys are joining us as our second guests ever. We had the kids on a few weeks ago, which felt a little dangerous. And I don't know, I'm not sure if today feels more dangerous or less dangerous than having the kids, but we are really excited. So I thought we could maybe start like a little easier, perhaps, on like a some warm-up questions, which we did send the questions to our moms ahead of time so they could prep a little bit. And even the warm, easy questions we were told maybe aren't so warm and easy. So um, we'll just kind of roll with it. So I think maybe starting with what you, Nola, see in Jen as a mom. What has it been like for you watching Jen become a mom?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Oh, watching that has just been a wonderful gift to to me to to watch it. And um, it's everything that I imagined, and probably more, since Jen wanted to be a mom all her life, you know, a little girl, and um love children. So it's just been a real gift.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

There's gonna be tears today. And then I think you knew that maybe you this would bring up emotion, but I wasn't prepared for that out of question one, out of the gate.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Sorry. I'm gonna just the deep dives right away. I'm like, it's gonna be so easy, and I'm like, surprise, I'm gonna go real heavy.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Real heavy, real quick on the easy one. I love it. I would love to hear from you, Sue. The same question. What is it about Kate that you've just enjoyed watching as she's become a mom?

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Oh, it's it's been amazing. I mean, I'm so proud of her and how she has handled everything with just love and patience and um her own style. I will say she has her own style of being a mom, and I love that. Um, and you know, just watching it's one thing when you bond with your child, but then when you see your child bonding with their child, it's just it's amazing. It's one of the best things I've ever witnessed. And and I just I'm so proud of her as a mom.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

There are, I know, I feel it. I'm like, darn it. Coming. I feel like I'm not sure. Usually it's because we're laughing so hard that I get the tears. Yeah. Jen, what would what is something that you this wasn't on the list, but what is something you actually I'm really good at that. Um, what is something that you admire about your mom that you have wanted to carry forward as a mom into your own motherhood journey?

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah. So I think the biggest thing that comes to mind for me that I admire and would love to carry forward is watching my mom. So she mentioned I'm the baby of four. We all have different personalities, different interests. Like we all we have commonalities, but we definitely have a lot of differences between the four of us. And I will say my mom took interest and was like the biggest cheerleader for each one of us in whatever we wanted to do, whatever was important to us, however, we showed up. She just knew how to be our biggest fans and just raise us however we wanted to live our lives. And I aspire to do the same for my kids. They are both different, unique personalities themselves, which we love, I think, to see those differences, but to just stand behind them and let them become whoever they feel passionate about being and dive into whatever they want to in this life, I think it would be amazing. And I've learned that from my mom for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Oh, that's so sweet. I love that. How about you, Kate? Yeah, I I've learned a lot from my mom and a lot that I want to carry forward, and a lot of it is around resiliency and empathy. My mom was always somebody I could tell anything to, and you know, I I think about those like TikTok or Instagram trends of we listen and we don't judge, but that is my mom. I could be like, I'm having this, or my friend is having this, and I always felt comfortable being able to tell her those things. Um, and so bringing that to my kids of never being fearful of being able to talk about things and and knowing that my mom will be there in my corner no matter. Um, and then just resiliency and work ethic. My mom, I don't know that a lot of people know us, but my mom didn't go back to college until she was way into adulthood. Um into adulthood, raising two kids. And um, she worked really hard to get where she's at and she never gave up. And um just watching that and embodying that resiliency and work ethic and knowing it is okay to kind of change paths in in adulthood, and all the joy that's brought her really has helped me in my journey of wanting to shift and and show my girls that it can be done too. So those are some of my things.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Yeah, so sweet. And I love that and kind of full circle moment when you talk about your mom and kind of taking that leap right later, and then where you're at, Kate, in your life right now, like taking this leap of faith too. I think that's amazing, and I imagine is behind kind of what's inspired you to be able to kind of do the same and make the choices that you've made recently. So that's awesome. I love that so much.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah, it's been it's been good to be able to like pull that from my childhood of like my mom showed me that it could be done, so I can do it too.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah, one thing that just brought up for me with my mom. She went back to work later in our life and hadn't, she was a stay-at-home mom with us and hadn't worked for a long time, and then made the decision and went back and just kind of dove right back in. And I don't need to tell them about the computer not being able to turn it on.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

You just did, Jen. You just told us. Yes, she just did.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

But she didn't think we won't deep dive into that learning curve, but it was a learning curve. Yeah, sure. And it was amazing to be able to watch you just take a hold of something that was not comfortable in those moments and be able to do that and show up in that way has been amazing too.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

No, I'm curious what it was like for you after being a stay-at-home mom and entering back into the workforce, what that what that was like for you, that shift. What did that bring up for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Well, it was a time that um I wanted to go back to work and do something different. They were in college at that time, actually. And um I always worked a lot at the schools. I was there all the time, worked on committees, you know, was very experienced in doing all of that type of thing. But to be on my own with a computer at my desk, and actually I started with my job um in just some stores, doing some marketing for them, and then they left that store and I went into the office, and it was right after Easter, and um walked into the office, and there was a lot more, there were more expectations of me than I was expecting at that time. So it was quite a learning curve, but it was a wonderful experience. I was there for 17 years, and um, so I was able to challenge myself in a lot of ways and be successful in a career of my own, which was really a good thing for me to really build a lot of things in my life too. And all the people you met, and the people I met, and the connections that I still have with a lot of people that I worked with and became good friends. It was a small company, so the family-owned. So it was a very great experience in my life.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Yeah, I love that you got to you know be a stay-at-home mom and have those relationships, but then build something for yourself too, which is something we've talked a lot about on here of what that looks like for us.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yeah. So maybe we'll jump next into a little bit about us as kids, and I'll turn it to you. No fear. Sue, what are some qualities that you remember about Kate as a kid?

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Oh my gosh, as a kid, um, I think the biggest one that comes to me for her is uh courage and bravery. And I say that as because I was thinking about this, and I can come up with just a couple of of examples where it just so impressed me. And I know one actually moved me to tears. When she, I'm gonna tell stories now, Kate. When she was um getting ready to go into high school, she came down with Bell's palsy, and one half of her face was paralyzed. And we gave her the option that summer of, you know, uh we would talk, I would have not wanted to leave my house, but she was so brave and so courageous. And we said, if you don't want to go to your week-long soccer camp, that's okay. And she's like, Nope, I'm going. And she went and she did great and she made friends, and it was just like she looked past it. Um, you know, even just when she was two and we pulled up to the ski area, and she's like, Mommy, can I ride on the big chair, the big swing? I thought, oh my gosh, she is so bright. And she just she has always shown so much courage in reaching out and and going beyond kind of her comfort level, um, and things that I would have never challenged myself to do. So that's one of the big ones. Another one is is not is her kindness and her empathy, but the way that she displayed that early on and how to um identify her feelings. This was something that she had naturally early on. She was two years old. We were in St. Thomas, and her daddy was like preoccupied with something, and she kept saying, Daddy, daddy. Finally, he he gave her attention and she goes, You just hurt my heart. And it was the sweetest thing that she acknowledged that feeling, and then that she shared it with us. And I just I I I don't know why, but those are two things that um of her traits that really stick out with me and her kindness. She had friends that would go through challenging times and she would bring them home like stray dogs and they would stick with us until they felt better. And um, it was always just you know wonderful to see her interacting that way with people and having that kind of empathy.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

And it makes so much sense as I just get to know her recently, like all these things that you're saying have been part of her forever. I see that so much, and it is a testament to why she's a good therapist and all the things and how she shows up for people. And um, yeah, I see all those traits in her too. So I I can see that as a child. I'm sure you were that way.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Oh, thanks, guys. I did bring a lot of strays home. There was a kind of a we love them all evolving door of people that would just come hang out because like I said, it was a judgment-free space that we could, you know, kind of get support. So Nola, what are some of your qualities that you remember in Jen as a kid or even how she shows them now?

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Well, I think about Jen, um, you know, she followed three other older brothers and sisters, and so she was always very kind, very kind child, um, made friends easily. She was happy, beautiful smile, always had a smile on her face, and just was able to approach things with a real positive attitude. Um, she talked a lot for sure. She was a talker, a little chatty, and um just remember her lighting up a room from the time she was a very, very little girl and attracting the attention of people that they loved her, and um, she was quiet, and um, she started at kindergarten, she started passing out in the mornings. We discovered she had hypoglycemia, and so she went through some really hard times with that, but she was very tough with it as far as when we were happy, it was a learning curve for us too. I'd be doing her hair and she would just pass out, and so it was quite frightening, and it was a real learning curve of how to prevent that from happening, and you know, do you just send her to school or whatever? But I don't remember very many days that you missed, even in spite of that. We kind of got into a routine and learned what that was all about, and it didn't take that smile or that shine away from you. Um, got along really, really well, was very social, like I said, would go to school and tell teacher just about everything, you know, would you too much, which you know, sometimes too much, you know. Um she had a my husband has a very special friend that he since college, and he was very involved with our family. He lived in Denver, and we were going through two at that same time. Um, we were going through some health issues with my husband's mother, and she was he was gone a lot, so she chose to take this gentleman to her little um performance there. I guess it was a bubble thing there at school that we were doing, and she announced to her teacher that it was mommy's friend, you know, daddy's friend, but he'd be coming with mommy. And you know, I think probably about eight, nine years ago, Jenny was able to meet up with this this friend of ours. And there was a program that night for for the um thing that they had at kindergarten there, and he actually handed that back to Jenny. He had kept it. So that just tells you how she touched hearts, and she he was so proud to be there and be invited that day. So she was she was really always willing to talk to someone, invite them into her life and conversation and very, very happy little child.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Oh, I love that story. And like you just said, about me Jen, I can see that all in you too. Um, we talked last week about the social side, right? Of like you are more extroverted, and um, but also the way that your kindness and your dedication has shown through from the events that we do, or you're corresponding with people, and just that kindness just radiates. So I love hearing the stories of you know, not just before I knew you, like in the you know, as an adult, but hearing it as a kid and those stories and how they show up now too.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah, thank you, and thank you, mom. It's too too kind of today, but I love it. What if we move into some then versus now? I think it's so important as we think about just generational differences and you guys raising kids versus kind of where we're at now. And I think maybe I'm gonna kick it to my mom again. But mom, what stands out to you as most different about parenting today versus when you were going through it? Okay. Anything coming to mind?

SPEAKER_00 16:52

I think um definitely parenting today is different than we were parenting you as far as just safety and um the thoughts that you have in your head and the things that you have to just be very mindful of every day, just in the world and and all of that. Um, so many moms are working and working longer hours, perhaps. Um, dads, you know, are working as well, so it's a lot different. Your community is a little bit harder to build, I think, than ours was just simply because other moms are working too, and we had you know the community, the neighborhood, or whatever, and that was just kind of built because everybody was just there looking out for everyone. So I think there's a lot of things that you have on your mind, you're very busy, and there's just a lot more on your mind with raising children in this time.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah, and I appreciate that because you're normalizing some of my anxious thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

I was gonna ask even the kids, even the kids talk about Jen and the cautious, you know, and that's something you've talked about a lot too, is you know, we we tend to say like be careful or we're cautious, or that safety piece is so prevalent in our heads. And Jen's talked about it a lot on on the podcast too.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it's a real thing. I think maybe you know, managing it is still a thing that I've tried to practice, but yeah, it's a thing that exists a little bit more in this world today. So I appreciate you sharing and recognizing the differences.

unknown 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Ma, I know you had uh some thoughts on that too. We were talking about it yesterday. What do you see that stands out as being so different from when you were raising me and Cedar to how you know we're parenting today?

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Uh one of the big ones that stands out for me is that as a mom, I wasn't having to deal with that with you having the social media so much yet. That kind of came along when you were a little older. So it really took off when you were in high school and college. So seeing kids deal with that today is really challenging. And I am grateful that I didn't have to deal with it like you did. Um you know, keeping your kids engaged in organized activities, you know, you uh they were really coming about, and I I I think a lot of people don't understand why parents are kind of hovering now and why everything is so organized and and that safety piece. It goes back to things like Columbine and the you know the World Trade Center 9-11 and those kind of things where we just want our kids to be safe. And you know, as a kid for me, we just went outside and came back when the streetlights were on. You had a little less of that, um, but we still, you know, we were starting to really watch over you and watching that that um safety and that social media as it came about. And it's a lot different. And even when I look at the parenting now with the kids' feelings, I mean, we came from a generation of tough it up, walk it off, you know, and to see for us to learn from you as a mom that it's okay to have those feelings and to teach your children what are the differences in the feelings and and how do you express it and that that's okay. So I think that's a huge thing that stands out for me is that we really didn't express feelings. We started doing some of that with your generation, but seeing how you guys are really nurturing your children to do that and be able to recognize them up front, like you did when you were two years old, is it's awesome. And um, I don't know that I would have been equipped to handle that like like you are, and so it's really cool to see that.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah, thank you. For I I agree, it's definitely I think even just like household to household, you know, we've got a street full of kids here, um, like my my street, and um there's always kids outside, but there's never an adult, which stresses me out, and I'm like, I have to be out there, right? It's that that anxiousness that because of everything's in the news, everything's on social media, we're hearing about it, we're seeing it, and it we're so aware. And um, like even yesterday, Bryn was asking, like, oh, why can't I go play in the street like the neighbor girls? And I was like, because your mom has other rules and other, you know, other I make different decisions, and so you can be out there if I'm out there, but you know, that comfortability is different because of the heightened safety stuff that we are just it's everywhere, I think right now. And the the dang technology the amount of times we get in the car and they're like, I need an iPad, I need a phone, I need this, and like it's a seven-minute drive, you will survive. And they're like, No, I won't, you know. And I just explained to them that we used to like drive from Colorado to Nebraska, and we didn't have, you know, tablets, we didn't have these cell phones. We had to look out the window, and like I listened to my sister ask every 15 minutes if we were there yet, you know. It's like so 20 more minutes. Yeah, that was our answer. No matter how far away we were, we told her we were 20 minutes away. So um, but those pieces, I think. I think definitely are a huge difference in how I grew up, how you grew up, and how we're raising the little wilds of today.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, I definitely agree. And I think one thing that brought up for me is when we talk about the safety, I think it's part of the reason why we're having such open conversations around feelings because we want to do these check-ins, like how are you feeling about the situation? And I think a lot of it does stay rooted in this idea of we want to keep our kids safe, but we're opening up more conversations and discussions around it than were even necessary before. But we have to do now, and I think we're just checking in on that all the time with our kids.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

And giving them space, like we said, to have the feelings, right? I will say I have said before, you can have your feelings, but take it upstairs. Because I just like sometimes it's like the high-pitched scream, and I've talked a lot about like my overstimulation, and I'm like, I don't want to tell you you can't be doing that, but I also will start to have big feelings. And so, you know, well, sometimes I'll be like, you can have that feeling, or we say a lot, you can be mad, but you can't be mean. You know, like be mad, have those feelings, but you can't actually be mean. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Just so you know, Katie, those were the days when we said, go to your room.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Yeah. I know, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:13

We certainly have those days as well.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Same message, same different delivery. Yeah, just different delivery, right? Go to your room. And I would say, from my recollection, Ma, is that you probably had to say that more to my sister than to me.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, 100%.

unknown 23:33

100%.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

We love you.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

She was like, this isn't fair. I'm not on here to speak.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

That could be a whole nother podcast in itself.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I even had a child that said, I'm going to my room. Yeah. Take themselves to their room.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Yeah. Brenda's that sometimes. She'll be like, I need space. I'm like, cool, take your space. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

But it's awesome that you recognize that and you're okay with it. Where, you know, in when you were young, I don't know that I recognize that like you do now. So I love that.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

What is one thing that you think your generation did do really well? Well, I'm sure there's many. I can phrase that as well as I could have. You only get one. You only get one thing right. You're gonna pick, you're gonna pick one out of the many. Yeah. What's just one thing you think that your generation did really well?

SPEAKER_03 24:39

I can kick that off. Um, yeah, I you know, sometimes it felt like maybe we were only doing one thing well that day. Uh, maybe some days we weren't doing anything well, but it was it was always a day of victory if I thought I did one thing right as a mom or one thing well. Um, but I think uh talking back about the technology is that we had to learn to adapt really quickly to kind of stay ahead or at least level with you guys as you were learning it. Um, you know, we had to prepare for that changing digital world as well. And it wasn't always comfortable. Um, we're also supporting more extracurricular activities than we ever did. You know, ours was like you'd walk to the baseball field or wherever you were going, and you know, with the safety issue, we were driving our kids everywhere, and we had to get coordinated with other parents and other moms to get everybody where they needed to be. Um, so we had to kind of learn to adapt to that as well. Um, you know, and then helping our kids as those structures changed, we actually had to help our kids learn time management and preparation. And this is what you've got after school today. So you need this, this, and this. And, you know, trying to prepare them more to be that self-sufficient as we were carrying out all of these different tasks. So um, you know, I think we did that well as well as we could. Um, hopefully that helped to set you guys up a little bit for, you know, when your kids came along.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. How about you, Nola? What are things that you think your generation did really well?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Definitely agree with that. We had to have that time to prep and to go over what the day was gonna look like, or even out in situations, you know, what it was gonna look like, how long we were gonna stay, where we had to be next. But I think one that um it was very a lot simpler for us, I think, at that time. At least I was a stay-at-home mom, so I speak from that point of view on that. It was a little simpler, although I was never home, I was always at school, or it was at the church activity or whatever, um, field trips, you know, I volunteered for a lot of things, and so I wasn't really home during the day. But once again, speaking of that community, we had those people right there, and I think it sounds like both of these scouts live in neighborhoods that really have a lot of those same things going on for them with neighbors that they know and children in the neighborhood, which is wonderful. You don't see that a lot in this time that you you know that. But um, we would organize things, we would be home then, it was more relaxed. We would be home to where we maybe had that sporting event or that after-school activity or band or whatever, concerts-you know, things that we did in the evenings that we would have to take all four along or whatever, because my husband worked um in interim, so he was quite often gone in the evenings and at mealtime and all of that. So it was something that I guess we were able to have more time that we could make more home-cooked meals, sit around the table and do that. And with knowing the neighborhood and the neighborhood kids, there was time to play outside, and so they would even watch out for one another. I mean, they would all kind of take care of each other outside the you know, the neighborhood, but they were right on our porch basically, or right in front on the block. So you're still looking out the windowcade, or you're still checking, you know, constantly looking out for all of that. And there were things going on that kind of started in in that time too, that was very frightening about protecting children and being out there with them. So I was I was a bit of a helicopter mom, probably as well. But it was just things came a little bit easier um with the time, with just scheduling things and having more time and more relaxation and all of that. So that that part was kind of difficult sometimes, but a lot easier to it because of the community. You know, lots of people we could call it last minute if we, you know, our child could go home and the neighbor would watch them for 15 minutes or 10 minutes, you know, just outside or whatever, if we were arriving from something else. So that just that community part.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah, it's definitely different. And I I like that you talked about the amount of time, right? Amount of time at home and amount of time we had together. And I feel like, at least in our household, that we're always doing something, right? Like it's every weekend we're doing for us, it's horses or it's soccer, or this activity, or we're going somewhere, and the amount of time to just be home is really limited. And the kids feel like they need to go be doing something all the time. And I like when we have just slow days at home.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Me too. We always say, like, while the kids are still in their little bit younger phase, we don't want to put them in all the activities and all the things until we need to, right? Until they really want to be a part of it. Because yeah, once you lose that kind of time at home, then I think it's hard to get back and then going back. Yeah, and like you say, the dinners, like the home cooked meals and being able to sit around the table. It's what we cherish when we get those moments, and it's yeah, I see those kind of slipping away as we get busier and busier. So, yeah, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Jen, what's one of your favorite memories with your mom?

SPEAKER_01 29:30

One of my favorite stories, I'll say, is when we're at Waterworld, and not how old was I? Maybe my mom should tell the story.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

It's my favorite story to hear your question and the favorite story of you. Um, and you're gonna tell this. And that's fine, we can tell it together. That's good. Okay, um, we were at Waterworld um that day. We had um company from Iowa actually. My husband's brother and his wife and family, they came out every summer and went to Waterworld with us, and we had a wonderful day. Jen was probably up two and a half, and so she wasn't able to go on the rides, and so I decided to take her into the gift shop. Jen has a love for shopping, even at two and a half years old. So she unstraps herself out of the um little stroller there, and she quickly picks a swimming suit off of the rack, and she not only just looks at it, but she holds it up to herself and says, cute. And she's like she's trying it on, and everyone in the gift shop that day just laughed so hard. Even I remember a young boy, he was probably 15, 16 years old working out there, and he got such a kick out of that, and it was such a like what?

SPEAKER_01 30:43

It was probably like an adult bikini. Oh no, it's just like a kid's in the right. And I think the reason obviously I was two and a half, I don't really remember that memory story story I remember. And the reason that that comes to mind for me is because I think it started this path of all the things that I did enjoy with my mom later. I loved a day where we could just be together. My mom's done a really good job with four kids of carving out time for each kid individually. It we had a lot of time together with all of us, but we had a lot of time where we just got like special days and moments, and I still love a day with my mom where we just go shopping and can carve out that time. So a good memory that I don't necessarily remember any moment, but um, a good story that has brought up like all these big memories.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

So you are sticking for that, that like lost my heart because that's something that I enjoy so much with you as well. And I never could shop with Jen when she was even little because she was out of that straw, like looking at things for herself, having to shop stuff we have a fun time and lots of laughs, yeah. Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

I love that. That's such a good story, and I love how it just like shows the continuum, right? Of of that time together and the love for shopping, but mostly just the time together.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

So yeah. How about for you, Kate? What's in your favorite memories?

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Um, I have a couple, and it and it goes back to that quality time, you know. But one of my most favorites, um, I was going to school up at CSU and there was a huge wildfire. And I I like I have asthma and I couldn't breathe. And my mom booked us a hotel room. She drove up from Denver to uh Loveland. We stayed in Loveland. She drove up and we just spent the day and the evening like in a hotel room watching snapped, watching, watching true crime, uh, which is something we love to do. Um but we just got to like hang out without having like agendas of like I'm trying to fit this in when I'm home, or we're coming up for another purpose, or you know, I I played soccer, so a lot of the weekends when I was young were spent around, you know, my soccer, or my sister was a cheerleader, so the football games and her cheer comps, and so really having time that we got to just spend with doing something we both liked, which is true crime, uh true crime and just that time that quality time together. And then around the holidays, we always do uh well, we don't now because you left, but we do you left me. Um you moved. We've still done it a few times. We've still done it. We've still done it a few times, but around the holidays, my mom uh started this tradition where we always do gingerbreads together or we do pumpkin carving together, and so it's always been like this big thing. Even if I was up north at school, I would still come down for our pumpkin carving or our gingerbreads or um going painting at the ceramic place. So just those, like I said, those quality time.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Yeah, always showing up for you when you needed it, right? I think that's like what I'm hearing is just being able to have that time together and common interests too. It's like true crime. You pick what you want, but you have a common interest and it works well for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

So I love that. What about you, Ma? What's one of your favorite memories?

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Oh my gosh, there are so many of them. Um, I would have to say taking you to Disneyland was one of them because we really found out that Katie, and I can't pronounce it, but she has a horrible fear of people in costumes. Oh she can sit and watch them put the costume on, but as soon as that full costume is on, she is out there. Red Robin, she would be out the door if that bird showed up watching her at Disneyland with things like Cinderella and Jasmine and just the she was only five years old, but the beauty of it and you know the eyes of the little girl who's getting to see this, and it was just so real. And then being the real child that she is, I had worked for Disney part-time, so we actually had a four-day pass. Um, but when she gets herself overstimulated, she understands, and on day four, and she said, What are we gonna do? And we're said, We're going to Disneyland. She goes, I just want to go to the beach. Yeah, we took her to the beach so she could, you know, we could all have a little downtime. But it was just such a magical time to have you know her there and to see her getting on the rides and seeing the characters and um, you know, but then saying, I just want to chill. So that's a great memory. Another one for me, Katie, is riding in the car up to Erie or Longmont and singing at the top of our lungs to Dirty Dancing or um what was the other one with Kevin Bacon? Um, Footloose. And all of us would just be singing at the top of our it sounded horrible, but we didn't care.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

I still do that. I still sing at the top of my lungs in the car.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

So yeah, that just always is, you know, I hear those songs and I remember that. And it's it's just very warming for me.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Oh, I love that. And I'm picturing you guys very pictures, road trip. It's like the four of us need to take a little road trip. Yeah, it would be fun.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

We should go to Palisade.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

We should, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

For sure. Sounds like we have a lot of things in common. Yeah, for sure. We we share, we send a song to Jenny every Christmas. Yeah, yeah, my favorite from a movie, favorite song. So we send that on.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

It's fun to hear the memories of like my favorite memories and my mom's, and then hearing the two of you and the similarities across the mem the memories and like what they mean to us, but that there's like a common denominator, commonality, is that a word? I don't know, between all of them.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah, and I think this episode I was gonna say session, this session I think is so well pleased. Yes, for so many reasons. I think we started it saying, you know, because of Mother's Day, we obviously wanted to have our moms on and celebrate you guys and be able to talk about some of these like really good memories. I think another reason why this is so well-timed, maybe is it's maternal mental health month. And Kate and I both being therapists and building this space for moms and really just wanting to maybe extend this all up branch of like taking care of others and being able to show up for others. I think it's a really meaningful episode for that reason, too, of just what why we're doing this, why we're here, what our moms have done for us, and how much we appreciate you guys. And I would love maybe do a couple more questions just kind of around that theme of maternal mental health month and um what you guys see from your perspective, what we see from our perspective. So if we could, the next question that I'll dive into, maybe I'll start with you, Sue, if that's okay. Trying to think about one thing maybe that you wish moms would give themselves more grace around.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

Yeah, that that's that's a big one, and it's not something that we're good at as moms. I don't care what generation you're in. It's really hard to do that because um, you know, you you get this little one and and it's about taking care of them. And um, you know, you you have to put them first. And um it it we tend to end up on the back burner as we're trying to take care of the kids and we're trying to take care of the finances and we're trying to get everybody where they need to be. And, you know, we're trying to find the uh husband's knife that he had in his pocket, now he can't find it, or his phone, or whatever it is, right? Um, and so it's it's a little more challenging, I think, than just saying one thing. Um, I think, you know, what we forget is that moms really deserve and and should be able to cut out that that time, but then to also give themselves some slack when it comes to making mistakes because there is no instruction manual and each child is different. Um, and even for us, each mom is different, each day is different. And so giving ourselves that grace to not be perfect, it's totally normal to have those days where you feel like it's too much, it's just too much, and things didn't go the way you thought they were going to when you wake up, which is most days. Um, but what matters most is that you were there, you care, you try, you keep going, um, and you try to make everything that you can right. And it helps to remember that everybody is getting frustrated. All of us as moms, we're tired, we're confused. Even whether you work in the house, which is a lot of work, or you work at a job, it's still a lot, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of love. Um, it can be confusing, but uh giving ourselves that break that we don't have to be that perfect mom that is um what we think is on Facebook because they're not perfect either. But we tend to forget that. Yeah, you know, and just celebrating those little wins. Give yourself the grace that, you know what, today I didn't yell at anybody in the car or at the house or at work or, you know, I just I enjoyed the day and and you know, cut yourself some slack. Take those little wings, little wins, and oh, for Pete's sake, take those little moments of joy when the kids say something that is just hysterical. Um, write it down so you remember later, because that's but give yourself the grace to enjoy those little moments and to forgive yourself because you're not a perfect parent because there hasn't been one yet, and you're not gonna break that mold.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

I do too. I think one thing that stood out to me is you started with like it's so hard to pick one thing, right? Because it's so nuanced, and there's not just one thing that we're managing and that we should think about kind of giving ourselves a break with. There's so many different layers to it. And the small ones, I think for me, is like you guys singing in the car, right? Like you take that moment, you enjoy those moments, you soak up kind of those pieces that do bring you joy, and that's what it's all about, right? Being able to find those like special moments that you do have good memories about. So I love that.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

And remembering, like you just said, Ma, that you know, we're not perfect and we're not ever going to be perfect. Um, and to you know, some days just remembering that good enough is good enough. Everyone is fed, everyone is home and they're safe, and you know, you you give them a kiss even if it's a hard day, and that's a win. That's a that's a successful day as a mom sometimes because it is hard. What about you, Nola? What is what is some advice you would give to moms who are kind of in the thick of it?

SPEAKER_00 41:27

I totally agree with you. So grace is something that we need to give to ourselves, and you moms need to give to yourselves. And I hear um Jen and Kate many times on their podcast speaking of that of you know, um, not every day is going to be perfect. We haven't done everything perfect. I think what's most important about those imperfect days is that you maybe need to chat with the child about it if it's something that you know has affected them in some way that they're they're thinking about or they're upset, and like you were talking about that earlier about um not letting them go outside without you being present. And it's a different rule, and it's hard to do things right all the time. That's impossible to do that, but to give yourself grace and to also you know sit down and talk with them if you're not doing the same thing another parent's doing, or what their friends are able to do, that you always get into those situations too that I think interfere with your parenting as far as your choices and other choices. So you have to deal with that and you have to give yourself grace and just be thankful at the end of the night and go over those decisions in your own mind as well as with your with your child. But we're never gonna be perfect, you're not gonna have that perfect day, but you're gonna have wonderful days and wonderful parts of days every every day, and remember those things, and just hopefully by giving yourself grace, those things will stand out more to you, the things that went well, and the days that you were happy singing in the car and doing all those things, those are also very joyful days. And I think really by at the end of raising your children, those are the days that you know we're talking about memories and memory the most. So um just grace, give yourself grace and know that you're not gonna be perfect. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

I think it's also a great lesson that we can um have for our kids. If they're seeing us give our own self grace, they can learn that that's okay and that that is comforting, and that they can also learn to um take that time for themselves and recognize that they don't have to be perfect either in anybody's eyes, especially their own. So I think it's a wonderful gift to give the kids is us taking the grace and them seeing us do that.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 43:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

And we talk a lot too, and and I don't think we've done a full really kind of breakdown of the repair side, right? When we do show up in a way that maybe wasn't our best selves or that we're not proud of. And you know, this week Sawyer Sawyer's really good at the gut punch for me in those moments. Um Um, but earlier this week I I was talking about it before we came on to record that Sawyer's been sick all week and um I'm sleep deprived, she's sleep deprived. And she said to me yesterday, she said, Mom, do you think you can stop being crouchy with me? And I was like, Crouchy, but yeah, crouchy. And I was like, I was like, you know what? Mommy is so sorry. I said, Mommy is just very tired and I didn't like I shouldn't have snapped like that, and and I'm I'm real sorry. And she was like, Oh, I forgive you. Can you forgive me for for not listening? And I was like, Shh, yes, babe, sure. But you know, it's it's those moments too of like I she call she called me out, which was, you know, I think pretty amazing for a tiny human, and we were able to talk to talk through it. But I told her, like, I'm just not my best self right now, and I'm sorry. And I think those moments help build to what you both are talking about of giving myself grace, but building that relationship with them so that they do know it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

And we should do more talks around repair, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Yes, we keep saying that and we forget when we are talking about episodes coming up, but we should because it is so so important. No and Ma, I whichever one of you wants to to kick off, but what is something that you hope we carry forward as moms? Something you you see in us that you hope we continue doing.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Yeah, I think for me it's that same thing that um it's totally fine to not be perfect, um, to be kind to yourself and not stress about everything. Um, you know, the days you show up and maybe you forgot to brush the back of your hair. It's okay. And to use your fingers, you know, and so it's okay. Nobody's gonna remember. Um, and that what matters most is those times that you share with your family, whether they're good or to Nola's points, it might be, you know, conversations that you had that were at a tough time, but you had that conversation and you kind of overcame it. Those silly moments that you just don't get that often, and you get less and less as you get older, but they mean more and more, I think. Um, you know, passing on that the kindness. So I think carrying that forward, um, you know, I can see that with Katie, with Bryn, especially. Um, you know, Sawyer's a little, but she's there too, like the what you just explained. But um, you know, that kindness and that that bouncing back after the tough days. And um, you know, the other thing I'm hoping that you that your generation is learning is that it's okay to ask for help because that was something our parents our moms never did. Um we as moms struggled with it, it was becoming more, there was more awareness about it. But I hope that you guys carry that forward and that it's okay to ask for help, whether whether it's physical help, whether it's emotional help, whatever it is, it's okay to do that. Um, that uh, you know, there are times when everybody needs help and um ask, find that person.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

And I think just spoken here in this last few moments, um, Kate, when you shared that about your daughters saying, Oh, it's okay. I think carrying that weight of all of that has wasted time, a lot of times that we've wasted that we could have joy and that we could move forward. And sometimes we just think things are a little heavier than perhaps they are, and kids are pretty resilient and they know the love is there, and by just you know, chatting with them, or you may not even need to do that, they're just gonna, you know, you give yourself grace and you just have more time to share with each other with joy because it can get in the way, I think, if it's too heavy like that.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

So, and you're very right. So, you talk to people, find someone to talk that out with and to share that. And we didn't have a lot of that thing to do, and now things are more open, and you're able to do that, and you're able to figure things out.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Hearing a lot of like ask for help, release the guilt, right? That moms tend to carry and that can be so heavy and such a weight. I've heard so much about not needing to be perfect and releasing that expectation of perfection and showing up exactly how we think we need to all the time. So, if we can take one thing, I think, from today for me personally, don't carry it with me into tomorrow, right? If something happened today, then being able to go to sleep at night, release that guilt, release whatever you know, uneven expectations maybe I carried, and then wake up the next morning with just this new mindset of being able to start over a little bit, right? And do that repair that we've talked about, um, so you can really dive into the joyful moments and not let anything kind of overshadow that.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

And we're not meant to push through everything as moms. We should be asking for help and we don't have to do it all alone. And it is hard work to build a village, especially if you don't have the family supports. But even when you do, it can still be hard to ask for help. It can feel like you're admitting defeat sometimes. And we're here to tell you that's not the case. It is okay to ask for help. It's hard, it's scary sometimes, but asking for help is actually a huge sign of strength. So um, and you know, we've talked too a lot today that there's more conversation around anxiety and burnout and needing support and that it is okay, and it's not just the hard moments we want everyone to feel supported and seen. So I really appreciate uh Nola and Ma, your perspectives and what it looks like from your generation into this one and hearing all the fun things about me and Jen.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

I can just say I think that in our time, those things weren't really recognized. We were feeling the same things, you know, being anxious or feeling defeated or whatever. You just went on with that day and we didn't verbalize that. Those words were not explained to us and talk about. So it's really nice that that's more open.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

All right. I think our takeaway, it's not so much a quote as we normally do to close things out, but it's more of this idea that every generation is learning how to do things differently across motherhood, and there's no right way, there's no wrong way. It's just different because as we've talked about, we have to adapt. And the idea is to just find a way to feel supported within your journey into motherhood. And so we are forever thankful for our guests today to come talk to us and share a little bit, and that's it for for today. We'll see you guys next week, where I believe, Jen, we have another guest, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Yep, we'll bring you some real stories from real moms, but also um bring in some expertise that some of you all have been asking for. So huge thank you to my mom, huge thank you to Sue. It's been a pleasure having you on today, and we will see you next time. Thank you for being here with us today. If something in this episode resonated, we're really glad you listened. Messy minded or not, you're not alone in this, and you don't have to have it all figured out.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

If you'd like to stay connected, you can follow Messy Minded Mama wherever you listen to podcasts. And follow us on Instagram at messy.minded.mama. We'll be back to connect again soon. Thanks for being here.