Episode 18 - Marriage After Kids: Real Talk with Our Husbands (Part 2)

Marriage After Kids (Part 2): Honest Conversations with Kate & Taylor

Marriage changes after kids.

Not because the love disappears, but because life gets louder.

In Part 2 of our Marriage After Kids series, Kate sits down with her husband, Taylor, for an honest conversation about what nearly 14 years together and almost 10 years of marriage-have taught them about parenting, partnership, and choosing each other through every season.

From learning how to communicate through busy schedules, to navigating a difficult year in their marriage, to embracing different parenting styles, this episode is a reminder that healthy relationships aren't built by never struggling, they're built by continuing to show up.

Together, Kate and Taylor talk about:

• What changed most in their relationship after becoming parents
• Why intentional communication and regular check-ins matter
• The reality of "roommate mode" and reconnecting after hard seasons
• Different parenting styles and how those differences can actually strengthen a family
• Mental load, gatekeeping, and why asking for help matters
• Finding your identity while raising young children
• What they hope their daughters learn from watching their marriage
• The transition from one child to two (and why that felt monumental!)
• Why they still choose each other after all these years

Whether you're newly married, deep in the toddler years, or simply trying to reconnect with your partner, we hope this conversation reminds you that you're not alone.

Marriage after kids is beautiful.

It's messy.

It's intentional.

And it's always worth fighting for.

✨ Connect with us:
Instagram: @messy.minded.mama

If this episode resonated with you, we'd love for you to leave a review, share it with another parent, or send us a message, we'd love to hear your story.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Welcome to Messy Minded Mama, a podcast for moms who look managed but might feel a bit messy on the inside.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

I'm Kate and I'm Jen. And we are here creating space for real talk about motherhood, mental health, and the invisible load so many women carry.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Welcome back to Messy Minded Mama. I'm Kate, and I am here with Taylor, my husband, for part two of Marriage After Kids. Hi, honey.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Hello, my sweet.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I'm so happy to have you on. I feel like we've talked about this for a while, but now it's here.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

I know. I was so happy to get my formal invitation.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah, the kids got invited before you.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Oh well, they're more important.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

I guess that's part of what we're talking about today. Uh let's give everyone kind of our backstory a little bit so they get to know you and me, and then we'll dive into some of the fun stuff that we have planned. You're smirking at that point.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Okay, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

So, do you want to tell our backstory or do you want me to tell it?

SPEAKER_03 1:14

How about you tell it and I'll vet it?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Okay. So we have been married for almost 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

And we'll celebrate our 10 years in October 7th. 7th. I'm glad you said that because I always hesitate. October 7th. And we have been together for what, 13 and a half years?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

13 and a half years. It'll be 14 years February of 27.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

It's a long time. It's like really long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

We were college punks when we first met.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

That is very true. Um, how did we meet?

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Um, if I recall right, there was a beautiful woman that was having issues printing in my computer lab that I managed. And after about the second or third question that most elementary schoolers might know. As far as computers, I realized that it was time to seal the deal. And the last time I had helped you, you had asked me whatever could you do to thank me. And I said, uh, let me take you out to dinner, which he thought was a joke. It was not a joke.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I did say yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

You did say yes. And we, yeah, our first state was at the mayor in Old Town.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Fort Collins.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Fort Collins, um, which is a pretty healthy beer garden, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I guess, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Um so at the time you thought you were gluten intolerant, so I made sure made sure to vet bars that had gluten-free beer. Um, it still tasted terrible, and we were serenaded with uh pirate playing accordion or pirate playing the accordion, and from there on it.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

True love.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

True love, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

What stood out to you about our relationship over time, like before we got married?

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Um, like-minded in a lot of ways, same values, um, personalities, definitely aligned. Vernacular and uh the way we talk and potty mouse.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Not me.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

No, no, but it was just natural from the get-go, and we're best friends, and we get along, and um, we're good partners.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Do you remember who said I love you first?

SPEAKER_03 3:44

I do remember that. It was me, as a matter of fact, and I redacted that, I retracted that.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Um Yeah, you took it back.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

It was a night at the bars, and it was we were like 22. Yeah, we were 22, it was a late night, and we were holding hands out in front of Lucky's.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

The level of detail.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Oh, I remember it. In surprisingly. And I said, I love you, and then the next morning, I think we were texting about it, and I got all like freaked out and scared and said, Well, I you know, I didn't mean it, and that was probably not the smartest thing to do. And then like the next day or day after You said it again. I said it again, and then from that point on I did not retract my statement.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Did you mean it when you said it when we had a late?

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Yeah, yeah. It was um just being scared, early relationship type jitters and all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Makes sense. I think one thing we've learned over the years is that the people that we married and the people that we've been together with for so long, right? We've been together almost 14 years through our early 20s, late 20s, early 30s, and now as much as I want to pretend it's not happening, we're entering our mid to late 30s, which I just pretend I have an anniversary of my 29th birthday every year anyway.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

But you hit your your late 30s before I do, so rude.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Um, but I think what we've learned is that the people that we were then and the people that we married are not the same people we are after we have kids because becoming parents fundamentally changes who you are as a person in a lot of ways, but also changes the relationship. What stands out to you the most about our relationship after we became parents?

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Beyond just how busy we were or are.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Um I think our communication was was good before kids, but I think our I know our communication and the way we work together has I mean has had to just increase. I think if you don't have that communication when you raise kids, it's probably not gonna be too successful in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah. Um like it's hard to communicate sometimes. We were just talking about this last night as we were trying to have a conversation about a potential bathroom remodel, which if you have ever talked about a home construction project with your partner, I'm sorry because it's very stressful, at least in our house.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Especially when you have a seven-year-old and a three-year-old that want to interject at every moment.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

They want to be included in the conversation, or they just want to bring up their own thing about El Cita and Louie House or whatever it is. But I think you're right, communication has been something that we've had to be really intentional about. And sometimes I feel like we're I think Jen and Tyler even said this too, because for anyone that doesn't know, Tyler and Taylor have very similar jobs in terms of hours and construction stuff. And then Jen and I obviously have our own practices, and so schedule-wise, like sometimes we're ships passing in the night of like, I feel like I'm lucky some weeks if we get a high five as we walk past each other, and so we've had to be really intentional about our communication.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Yeah, I think there's a plan and purpose there has to be for you know how you communicate, when you communicate, being succinct with that communication, because you have to be, because you're getting pulled all every different direction and getting climbed on and everything that goes along with that. Um, so it it's all critical.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

What do you think we've done well in terms of having those communications?

SPEAKER_03 7:52

I think check-ins um is is a huge thing. You taught me happy people ask for what they need. Um, so you know, if you're feeling frustrated or or or what, not bottling that in, and that's just a man thing. Um unfortunately, but just being you know more clear and direct.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah. And we, I mean, we had a hard year um where it just we weren't connected for a part of the year. Um, and we had to have those really super honest, maybe not so fun conversations and check-ins because we just weren't, we just felt like something was off, right? It wasn't we weren't connecting well. And so I'm sure he wish I was less honest in a lot of those conversations, but the brutal honesty and those making time and space for those conversations, I think, are what helped us get through through that time, and also I think remembering that marriage is hard and takes a lot of intention and it takes fight sometimes, you know, to fight for it, to fight to stay together, because I I can say, maybe brutally honestly, that you know, across 13 and a half years, there's days that I just don't like you.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Oh, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

And I'm sure that goes the other way too, you know, where there's days that you just don't like me because we're human and it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

No, I think that's the hardest thing is is that commitment to fight um and to stay engaged. I think it's really easy, especially, you know, parents of younger children to get into the roommate mode, uh um best friend mode, not partner mode. So sometimes you gotta look at each other and ourselves in the mirror, smack ourselves around and get to the bottom of it and work through it. And that's exactly what we did. And have and keep doing. And keep doing, yeah. It's not a one all, it's a continuous um effort. Effort, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah, we made it so far.

unknown 10:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

I like I like you today. I'm still alive.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Um, did you I know the answer to this, but did you want, like, were you like, I'm gonna have kids, I want kids, I want to be a dad?

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Uh no.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

What kind of what what have you seen in yourself, I guess, from that place of like, I'm not sure I want to be a parent to like I we I just said this to somebody this weekend that like you would have we already have two kids and you would have four more if financially we could. Like you have fully embraced dad life and you love it. What are the things for you that you think you see in yourself as a dad or that these kids have really brought out in you?

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Well, I think first thing, do you remember our conversation that we had in our first house about kids? That conversation kind of opened my eyes of, I mean, obviously we had just moved in with each other, but um this it was gonna be more than just a girlfriend uh standard relationship, and that I wanted more um with you and for you. And then I think um, you know, obviously you got a lot of we have a lot of nieces and nephews, and at the time there were little babies or toddlers, so seeing you interact with them um really kind of opened my eyes on how good of a mom you were would be and were going to be. And then I think just as our relationship developed, um, you know, that's when I wanted to have kids. Um and then we started trying and have two beautiful daughters, and I get asked a lot being in construction, um, you know, how I feel about having two daughters compared to, you know, two sons or at least one son. And I am absolutely um couldn't be any happier, more proud of being a girl dad.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Um you embrace the girl dad life.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Yeah, yeah. So that was that was just my first. What was the rest of your questions that you asked?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

I actually don't remember, but I think just what has it brought out in yourself, I guess. What what do you see being a dad has has brought out for you?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Patience.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah. I think you're more patient than I am.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Well, neither of us are patient at all. Um so patience is definitely um patience and understanding. Um being more gentle and soft, I guess, and that, you know, just the typical man, especially in construction, just hardened. And having girls definitely helped that out. Um but no, it's just been an absolute joy.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

I love how much you've embraced it too. And one of the things that I don't want to say that it it necessarily surprised me because of how you have showed up for me across our relationship and and marriage, but the way that you show up for these girls and are there for them and just you go out of your way to do things for them and for us, and um, you know, you work so hard during the week, but you don't let that deter you from showing up when you come home too. And I think that's one of my most favorite things is like you are at everything you can be, you show up, you come home and you're engaging, you play Barbie house. And that's some of my most favorite things about you as a dad. It's just how you show up.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

I love I love to, and part of that probably has to do with my upbringing. Um and you know love my dad, love my mom, but you know, wanting to have a little bit more of a parental par presence with my kids and maybe what I had.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah, I mean we grew up very different, and I think it shows quite a bit in our parenting. Um, sometimes in a good way, sometimes I think we infuriate each other with it. Um, I grew up in in definitely a more rigid. Rigid. Hey, they might be listening, but in a rigid, very structured, um, a lot of rules, which I think was good for me. I was I was a pretty straight and narrow kid anyway. Like I was a nerd and played Monopoly down the street with my friends in high school, but I grew up in a very rigid way, and sometimes that makes me really rigid with our kids, or maybe even a helicopter parent, or I have some anxiety about things, or I'm a planner and you're not. Um, and you grew up very different.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

Yeah, I was feral. I I I made my rules.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

That's where Sawyer gets it.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah, no, I made my rules.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

And I think in in our parenting, at least from my perspective, like I am definitely more rigid. I'm more of like a rule follower, or I want things to be a certain way, and you are definitely more relaxed and go with the flow.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

And just wait till teenage years, that's going to change.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

But I think it shows up like even yesterday, right? Where we were all going for a walk and it wasn't going the way I wanted it to go, or how I envisioned it going, and they wanted to ride bikes, and I didn't really want them to ride bikes because I get nervous about them riding bikes in the street, and you were like, eh, you would have had more fun if mommy let you ride your bike. Because for you, it's just more free. You're just a more free person. It showed up even early in our relationship of I like to have plans in your spur of the moment of like to go do things. And so I think those differences in our upbringings definitely shows in how we parent, but I don't know that it's a bad way.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

No, we play off of each other. We want a yin-ing, yin, and yang, and and in the balance.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I mean, you definitely push me to embrace having a little more freedom.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

And no, you know, you can't say that.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

You can't say that you embrace the rigid lifestyle. Don't even pretend. Um, what surprised you most about me when I became a mom? Going back to like that early childhood or early childhood, early parenthood life.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

This is a hard question because there wasn't much that honestly that I can think of that surprised me when you became a mom, just because being around you you with young nieces and nephews when we first started dating, you were working at the daycare.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Um, so you were way more well equipped um than I was. Um what I will say, maybe what surprises me is um totally off the top of my head, you were just so more you're a natural mother for sure. Um you know, maybe one thing that's sub other that surprised me, I guess it shouldn't really, you're not much of a touchy-feely person. I didn't think that would translate with like kids. I mean, you obviously have like a uh like everybody does, a quota, and then it's like I don't want to be touched anymore. But um, you know, and I and I can understand that too.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, especially I think I have a hard time. Like, touch is not my love language, and it's very much yours, so that's something we had to work on and still have to work on through our relationship. I'm not a like please come hold my hand and snuggle on the couch kind of person. Yeah um, but even with my kids, like it's different because they're my kids, but I still also have a limit where I'm like I cannot be touched anymore. And our three-year-old, that's all she wants to do, is she wants to like rub her hands on you and rub her feet on you. That's her soothing, exactly. But it's definitely something that I don't know, that has been a work in progress over 13 years that we've been together, and you know, seven years of being a parent is me having to increase my tolerance because I'm you know, I'll take a good snuggle from the kids, but it's definitely the constant. Yeah, it's tough. The constant is hard. Yeah. What do you wish dads or how am I trying to phrase this? What do this was a question we got from some of our followers. What do dads wish moms knew?

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Um that moms don't have to take on the mental load.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Say more things.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Well, I think a I'm sure a lot of dads in most households take on a big physical load, you know, from a lawn work, you know, moving heavy objects, whatever. Um, and I think it's more natural for the mom to kind of take on the mental load as far as school registration, activities, this and that, play dates, all that good stuff. Um and maybe that is more natural for mothers, but I think dads are just as capable. Um at least assisting, you know, not just putting that all on moms. Um I think there can be some negative just as a as a father of daughters, there can be some negative feelings of of outsiders sometimes, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Like you feel on the outside? Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_03 19:41

Um, just like a d you know, s sometimes just getting kind of like odd looks from people if you have your like two daughters, um, or especially as I like grow older. Um dads are just as capable of taking care of daughters as moms are.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I feel like you get a lot of comments when you go out with the girls about like, oh, look at like oh, good for you for taking them out, or stuff like that. And I feel like I I couldn't tell you the last time someone said that to me.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Well, and that's probably more of a generational like the older boomer generations just being used to that trad wife lifestyle. Um but yeah, I mean I fathers are good fathers enjoy doing activities, taking their kids wherever, just as much as moms do.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah, yeah. I know something that, and I don't know that you even remember this, but something you had said to me um, it was early on, because I I kind of made you go to this like class at the hospital about becoming a dad.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Um, and something that I remember you saying early days to me with Bren because I did take on a lot. I mean, a it especially when, you know, if you're nursing or pumping in those like early bonding days and all of that. But you also kind of called me out for gatekeeping a little bit and saying like I didn't have to do all of it and to not gatekeep and to let you in. Do you do you remember that at all? Do you feel do you feel like I did that successfully?

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Well, yeah, I mean you you heard me when I said it. Um, but again, I think that's just like a natural mother instinct that's hard to break break through. I mean, you carried the child for nine months, you birthed the child, you fed the child. I mean, our situation might have been a little different and similar to other people of at least with Bryn primarily pumped, so it wasn't hey, like you don't have to get up and every few times a night to feed Bryn. Or sorry, for that matter, I can do it too.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah. Um that teamwork piece of that collaboration.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

And I think that was just me kind of learning, especially with Bryn, um, where I fall in the overall hierarchy hierarchy, hierarchy of everything.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Um, so you had to st you had to set me straight too.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Well, I'm glad you spoke up though, right? Because I don't want to gatekeep. And I think that's important for we we just said it, you just said it. Healthy people ask for what they need. And I think from a mom standpoint, it can be so hard to ask for help because I do feel like you carry so much. And I've said it on this podcast, I don't know how many times, that like without you, I would starve, I wouldn't have clean clothes, I'm not great with like the domestic side of our household. Um, and I truly would starve without you.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Um so you're like my third child.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah, it's me. Surprise. You know, I think that goes into the mental load piece too, of like sometimes asking for help is hard because I don't want to put more on you when I know that you're working really hard so that we can have the life that we have and have supported me in all of my job shifts, and you take on so much around the house. And I know you've said it's hard to ask me for help sometimes because of kind of the same stuff, but I mean, I don't do as much stuff around the house, clearly, but like just because of all that we're carrying individually, but then without asking for help, I feel like sometimes that's where that resentment that we were talking about earlier in the episode built. Yeah, that communication pace. I think if we were to talk about like how our relationship had changed, I like pre-kids to now, right? We talked about communication is important, we talked about it takes work, it takes fight, all of that. But I think just the dynamics changed too because now you have tiny humans that want your attention and want your space. And I I think if we look at like what's changed the most, not just the logistics side of our relationship, but what what for you stands out of having changed so much of pre-kids to now?

SPEAKER_03 24:15

I would say our just the level of responsibility, the demanding schedule.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah, schedule.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Um, like those two things really I mean, obviously like the low-hanging fruit finances and everything, because you know, daycare is a second mortgage and and all that good stuff, but you know, we we weren't dinks um anymore. Dual income, no kids, for those that you do do not know.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Did you see the panic come across my face of what is that?

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Yeah, but yeah, we went from kind of laissez faire, you know, lifestyle, kind of did our own things, whatever we wanted to do for the most part. Um, saved whenever we wanted to, and then having kids was bolster the savings, buy a house.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

I also think that some of what stands out for me of things that changed are like, and you know, we talk about this on the podcast a lot too, but this like time and identity and energy because things that we used to pour ourselves into or things that I just enjoyed, like my bed days, which I miss terribly sometimes, but also have a harder time fathoming what they are. So pre-kids, I don't know, Sundays usually these are some of my favorite things, is like we used to do sweatpant Sundays where we lose football Sundays where we would wear our sweatpants all day. Taylor would make delicious food and we would watch football literally all day long, or I would like have a day and lay in bed and watch TV. And now doing that is so hard because of the kids. But that was like a big connection thing for us was just a time at home, just us. But we also got time to ourselves because sometimes I'd go watch a show by myself, or you would, you know, go play golf or see your friends or watch football, you know, whatever. So I think this piece of identity too, where like all of a sudden you become mom and dad, and it's like, but we're still we're still people, we're still human.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Still Katie and Taylor, we're still married, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

And so like finding time, and I know Tyler on last week's episode talked a lot about like hobbies and like having passions, too. Is there something you feel like you felt like you really had to fight to keep in order to like keep a sense of identity of Taylor?

SPEAKER_03 26:47

No, I'm I'm an oddball compared to most people. I'm really laid back. Um I don't have a whole lot of hobbies um other than like golf and broncos, and that's still pretty easy to get in. Um with you know, with our lifestyle. I have definitely um you know, call it adopted um the father identity. Um so it's it was real I love my girls. Um so it it was a lot easier for me than maybe a lot of people, I'm sure, to just kind of mold myself. Um you know, I think also too, it's hard to like pinpoint it because we're still in like the damage control of raising children. Um so maybe once they're teenagers, I'll look back, but it's corny um and cheesy, but the most important thing for me is spending time with you and the girls, and the rest is cake after that.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

So Yeah, I I feel like for us, like even when we were dating and and now we very much went about our relationship of like a relationship is two people coming together to having some crossover, right? So, like even when we were dating, like you very much did your thing and I very much did my thing, and then we did things together, and now being married and having kids in that, it's a lot of what we do together is centered around the kids, and we have become barn light people into like one of our daughters does horseback or the other one loves gymnastics, or we're going paddleboarding or to the the park, and you know, I think we have really incorporated our values and the things that have been important to us into a really big family component, like we watch broncos together, we watch hockey together, we go paddleboarding together, but also I feel like we've given a lot of space to each other that if one of us says, Hey, I want to go do this thing, like you you have your poker nights with your friends, and like I get to go paddleboarding or hiking with my friends, and you know, it's never a like ask permission to do things for ourselves, it's more talking about scheduling.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

I think of like you don't have to say, can I play poker with my friends? It's does this weekend work? Do we have anything? Because I am really terrible at keeping like a joint calendar. I don't know, we just don't have one. We probably should. But it's more about like giving each other time and space when we ask.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Or when we uh indicate that we want it or need it, rather than so much of like fighting to keep it.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

I would agree. And I think now that I'm thinking about this a little bit more, you know, one thing that maybe we both felt disconnected from to a point when we first started having kids was friendships. You know, obviously I got a very close-knit group of friends that I've known since I was, you know, anywhere from 13 to 15. We got married younger compared to our generation, starta family.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

And our friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Sarda family younger than them. So, you know, we definitely kept those relationships in contact, but I think to a point we drifted from those friendships. But I think what's been cool recently is now some of those friends are getting married, they're starting to have kids, so we're kind of like reconnecting, albeit empty nesters way before them, thank God. But um, so I think that's probably wouldn't was that something that you would see too? I mean, for for me, that's something that I can definitely relate to.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Um Yeah, I think what it is, you know, this and this kind of goes to that idea of us being like opposites in a lot of ways, where I'm a planner, you're spontaneous, you know, I'm a homebody, you're really extroverted. You know, we we have a lot of things that were opposite, and in and in that way, of you've got a pretty wide base of friends, and and they're close friends for you, and but you've got a lot of them. Where I have like a handful of people that I consider like my close friends. Like a I can be extroverted when I need to be, you know, it's I've part of my job as a therapist, I people all day, and I love that, but I need my time back at home where you're like, let's go do this, let's go do that, let's see all the people. And so I think you seeing that on your friend side, where a lot of my close friends also had kids kind of later, or they don't have kids. Um, and so I have to be a little like my ways of connecting with them are a little bit different, I think, than yours. And I have, you know, a couple friends I've been friends with since like early childhood. Um, but I don't have a lot of the same friends from like high school and stuff that that you do, but they your friends have kind of become my friends um over time, and really they're they're like a chosen family for us. But yeah, I definitely think finding ways to have connection within those friendships is is important. I just totally rambled through that.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

But well, I think the the only other thing I'll add too is like changes as you know, once we became parents, um I think not to minimize having our first child by any means, because it was a it was it was a change and it was it was an effort, but the difference between zero to one kids and one to two kids, one to two kids was monumental.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Um I agree. When we had Bryn, our oldest, we brought her everywhere with us. Like we went to Europe and put her in a hiking backpack and like just traveled everywhere. Granted, we had two other adults with us, which maybe have made that trip easier, but she went everywhere with us. She went to restaurants, she went hiking, she went on adventures. We literally took her everywhere, and and it was great. And it was, I don't know, maybe she was an easier kid.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

Temperament has a has a lot to do with that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Um, but then when we brought in a second kiddo with Sawyer, who is like fiercely independent in her own way, and I mean that's what we want. We want to raise strong, independent girls. But holy cow, is that hard to parent, especially with someone that like fully embodies that? And taking two kids somewhere is so much harder than taking just one kid, and so we have shifted a lot from zero to one to one to two, of like we very rarely go out to eat anymore because it's hard and absolute chaos, scheduling chaos, and all of that. You're right. I didn't even actually think about that, but yeah. So if you ever wanted to know what was the harder transition for us, it was one to two kids.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Most definitely.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

I had just talked a little bit about all these differences of us and like how we actually are like we're very, very different people, but I think that works for our dynamic and that like you bring out kind of the fun, spontaneous, practical side of me, perhaps. Um, I don't want to assume I bring things out in you, but we but we are you do we are very different. And I'm curious, like, what is something that used to, or maybe it still does, but you just appreciate it. What's something that frustrated or annoyed you that I mean again it still could, but you actually now appreciate?

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Um, so you know I'm a neat freak.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Um and I'm That's why our house is so clean.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

And I have a pretty hard time like just being okay with toys and everything on on the floor. So we definitely I mean, it would literally be me being right behind the girls as they're destroying everything and picking it up and just running myself from the ground for that. And you gently saying, Well, what are you why? Why and what are you doing? So kind of pushing back on that. But I think over time I've realized it's a futile effort, and just let them play, and after they're done playing, then that's when I'll clean.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

I feel like the gently said was perhaps a little dark.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

There might have been some colorful language and some other words used, but but letting them play, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Like, not that was my whole thing. It's like, yes, it's a it's a futile effort because they're kids and they're supposed to have toys everywhere and they're supposed to create chaos, and you're gonna run yourself ragged trying to pick up everything that they get out in the minute that they get it out or they're done playing with it.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

So and and you used to kind of do course correction, uh which was good, um, on my explanations that I would give the girls, my dissertations that I would give to them were after about 10 seconds they probably had no idea what I was talking about. So kind of lowering lowering it down and being a little bit more talking to a seven-year-old and three-year-old, not a 30-year-old, kind of definitely helps.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

I would say something that frustrated me, but I now appreciate is the spot the spontaneity piece. Because it annoys the ever-living, you know what, out of me when you're like, oh, tonight we're just gonna blah blah blah, or I invited so-and-so over tonight, and I'm like, what do you mean tonight? Like, I need processing time and planning time, and it actually used to be a really big point of contention for us in the early years, and I feel like now I've tried to embrace it a little bit more, but it I think led me to being more relaxed in a lot of ways and having some fun opportunities that I might not have had before. So, anyway, that's something I really appreciate about you now.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

That I'm not I'm gonna remember that the next time I get hassled for the spontaneity.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying let's do it all the time. Um I'm curious. You know, we we talk a lot about healthy people ask for what they want, and we try to nurture that out of our kids of using their voice to ask for what they want. But I'm curious, what do you hope our girls learn from us as parents or even from our marriage?

SPEAKER_03 37:37

How we communicate and work through difficulties, whether it's a scenario or just over time. Um, for me, um, I want my our girls to see how a husband should treat his wife and how a man should treat a woman. Um, I think that's pretty very important to prevent certain other futures for our girls. Um how we work together and um you know our our humor and how we joke with each other and and poke and prod each other and how we have fun with each other.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Poke and prod.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

I think about our walk yesterday, and we were kind of sniping at each other on the walk and like pushing each other's buttons somewhat intentionally, but in good fun. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

Yeah, it's it's it's good. I'm definitely I like to stir the pot. I like to stir the pot, yes, self-admittedly.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

I hope the girls get our like and they they don't know it now, and they might not for a while, but the fight to commit, right? The the fight that you have to keep fighting for each other every day sometimes because marriage is hard. You're you're we're humans, we're complex beings, we have a lot of feelings, and you have to find a path forward together, even when it might be ugly. And I I want them to take that with them. I want them to take your work ethic. You are one of the hardest workers I know. And while I pray for their future spouses or partners, I hope that they get strength and the sense that they can advocate for themselves and that they know that they're strong women because we raise them to be that way. So and the fun part, right? I want them to look at how much fun we have and celebrate fun and spontaneity, I suppose. I don't know. Okay. As we kind of wrap up, is there anything like about becoming parents? A story that you can think of or advice that you would give to people who are new parents or entering parenthood or are in the throes of it. I mean, what's like your what's your best advice?

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Well, I mentioned patience earlier, and that was more directed towards like patience with your kids. But I think just as important is to have patience with yourself. There's no perfect parent. You're gonna have days where you're not getting through your kids and you're pulling your hair out, and why, why, why? Um, so just to remember that you're not perfect, we're still learning how to be parents.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah, we say it all the time. My dad says it to us, right? We're only seven-year-old parents.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

We don't have to have it all figured out.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

Exactly. So ease the pressure of yourself, don't try to be perfect. Um, and just have patience as you develop into a parent.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

And healthy people ask for what they need.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Ask for help. It's okay to to lean into your supports and to, you know, find support within your spouse, your partner, your family, your friends, wherever you need, because you know, it really does take it people say it all the time, it takes a village, but it really does because parenting is hard and marriage is hard, and you're now combining the two and having to manage emotions for so many people.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

All right.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

So okay, last question why do you still choose me?

SPEAKER_03 41:42

You have to answer that first.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Rude.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

I've been answering all the questions first.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Well, it's my podcast. Oh I choose you for so many reasons. I would starve without you. So, you know, survival instincts. But I choose you because, and I said this at the very beginning of the podcast, and I'll say it again now. I choose you because of the of how you show up for me, for our kids, for our family. I choose you over and over and over again, even when it's hard, because I really value the life that we've built and the friendship that we have that underlies everything else. And like you are my person and my best friend, and like in you know, a really cheesy way, but like we've been married forever. A third of our lives. Oh, yeah, a third of our lives, and or we've been together for a third of our lives, I guess. But I think it's really like I choose you because of of the partnership and support that you give that we have. And starting over sounds terrible.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

Yeah. I second a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

You have to come up with the.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Oh no, no, no, no, no, I will. You're gonna gag, but you're my mate.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

I hate when you say that.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

No, um I couldn't, nobody else would put up with my stuff, first off. So truth. No, but it's just um we're such good partners. We can laugh. Um you've supported me. We've supported each other career-wise, through family tragedies, deaths, medical, medical surgeries. We've always been there for each other. Um there's no other person I would rather be with.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Aw, so sweet. Okay, well, now that we have ended on a super cheesy but loving note, we want to thank you for listening. I want to thank you for being on here and talking about some of the stuff is hard to talk about, especially when we talk about like how hard a year was for us, but um just coming on and and talking about what marriage is like from your perspective and all the chaos and fun it brings. Um, so thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Well, of course. I'm so proud of you and Jen and everything that you guys have done and will do, and it's great to be a cheerleader and see it all develop in real time.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Well, thanks for listening in to this episode of Messy Minded Mama. We have some other guests coming on in the next few weeks, so stay tuned on our socials. You can follow us on Instagram at messy.minded.mama to keep up with us. And we appreciate you listening in. If you have any thoughts, questions, we're gonna do a follow-up with Taylor and Tyler. Uh, Jen and I will both be on um later. So if anything sparked an interest and you want to send in a question or a comment, send us a DM. You can comment um through the podcast pages or send us an email and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Thank you for being here with us today. If something in this episode resonated, we're really glad you listened. Messy minded or not, you're not alone in this, and you don't have to have it all figured out.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

If you'd like to stay connected, you can follow Messy Minded Mama wherever you listen to podcasts. And follow us on Instagram at messy.minded.mama. We'll be back to connect again soon. Thanks for being here.