The Noise in Your Body

TW: This episode includes discussion of eating disorders, disordered eating, body image, weight, dieting, and exercise-related behaviors. Listener discretion is advised. 

We spend an enormous amount of time thinking about our bodies: how they look, what we eat, whether we have exercised enough, what other people might be noticing, and what we should be doing differently.

In this episode, we’re joined by eating disorder and body image therapist Brittany Manchester, LMHC-D, PMH-C, CYT, to talk about where that constant body noise comes from, how early we learn it, and what it costs us.

We unpack the messages women absorb about food, weight, movement, and appearance, why exercise so often becomes punishment or repayment, and how body monitoring can quietly take over our attention, choices, relationships, and enjoyment of our lives.

Most importantly, Brittany shares practical ways to begin building a more compassionate relationship with your body, your movement, and the space you allow these thoughts to occupy.

Thank you for listening to NDA!

If this episode made you think, challenged a perspective, or helped you recognize a pattern in yourself, consider sharing it with someone else who might need the conversation.

You can connect with us on Instagram at @nda_pod, where we continue the discussion between episodes.

Until next time, notice the pattern. Then decide what happens next.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

We have a guest with us today. And that guest we brought on to actually take a little bit of a deeper dive into a topic that we've already talked about to a point, but we thought maybe because of the breadth of the topic, it makes sense to bring in somebody who has some expertise on that topic. And that topic is body image. If you've spent any time online recently, I'm sure you probably have encountered content that for those of us who were starting to use social media when it first became a thing in like the early 2000s, we saw a lot of content around shrinking your body size. And we saw in the media how lots of celebrities dropped weight and really got to honestly skeletal looking, many of them. Absolutely. And that's that trend is starting to rear its ugly head again. So we wanted to invite our guest today. We have Brittany Manchester. Welcome, Brittany. So excited to have you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And so Brittany is going to talk a little bit about this with us. She's an eating disorder and body image therapist. She's also a certified perinatal mental health provider and a yoga instructor, which this was my favorite thing when I saw this in your bio. A yoga instructor focused on compassionate movement and really just loving your body at any size. So welcome, Brittany. Yes, welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

And Brittany, compassionate movement. That's what I'm all about. Because whenever I've gone to a yoga class, I just want to say the instructor is like, oh, just do this, do what you can. And they're contorting themselves like a pretzel.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

And I'm like, uh so that is not the thing that I can. Exactly. Brittany, do you want to tell our listeners just a little bit more about you before we dive into the topic?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Yes. I have been in the fields of mental health since about 2015. And based on my own experiences growing up and seeing what was happening for women, I naturally gravitated towards wanting to work with women on different topics, such as eating disorders, body image, helping new moms feel comfortable in their body, feel comfortable in their new role. And then in taking my own yoga classes, I wanted to have the opportunity to move into the space of teaching. So I also became certified in what's called curvy yoga, which is meant to be adaptable yoga poses for every shape and size and backgrounds and level of flexibility so that everyone feels welcome to the yoga space. So that it's not just about physically challenging your body, but also coming into a sense of spiritual and mental health wellness too. So they kind of became this wonderful package that I now offer.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Just out of curiosity, I led you down the path of being passionate about this topic.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

I think my own experiences growing up of seeing people who I care about shrinking into a certain size, like we mentioned the early 2000s, was pretty impactful. And we're finding ourselves kind of working back towards the early 2000s as far as the trends in social media, as far as how women see themselves. It really kind of touched very close to me that we as women, even though we're such powerful creatures, that we aren't seeing the power in our body and honoring our body for what it is, we're kind of shrinking into what the male idea of what a woman's body should be, how it should be functioning, what it should be used for, when they have no idea what it's like to live in a woman's body. And so I found it fascinating to learn about how that has come about across the last, you know, five, six hundred years, and how we can slowly change it towards what do women think that they should be using their bodies for and how should we be celebrating that? That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Yeah. Happy to have Britney here with us today. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Most NDAs keep people quiet. Ours does the opposite. Around here, NDA means no dicks allowed.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Not men, the behaviors that keep women small.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

This is the podcast for women who are done drinking and ready to rise. I'm Amanda Kachurka. And I'm Elizabeth Zipola. Welcome to NDA. I want to just paint a picture that I think a lot of our listeners can relate to. And I will even admit sometimes I feel a little bit like a phony as a mother who's raising a young woman. My daughter is 18, because I am always promoting having a healthy relationship with our bodies. And yet I have even caught myself saying things or thinking things like, I'll feel better wearing thus and such when I'm smaller, or I'll be more comfortable for our business and recording myself on video when I'm a little bit thinner. And I think that I can talk about that now from a very different place than I could have in my 20s. And I'm just curious if you can share with our listeners, Brittany. Nobody wakes up spontaneously deciding the circumference of their thighs, right? Is a measure of her worth. We learn it somewhere. So I'm just wondering if you can share with us where do you think this originates from?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

A lot of different places. The biggest impacts are the BMI that we're all asked to think about when our primary doctor steps into the room for our annual physical, or we come in with a concern and they say to us, we'll just lose weight. The BMI itself, the body mass index, we have problems with because we now understand that it was created with a male perspective to focus on a certain size body. And there were no scientific measures put in place to help us understand where that BMI was coming from. So it still can be used to understand a whole community of how their health is doing, but it is no longer appropriate to be used on an individual basis. But we still are. So there's that. You're being inundated when you go to the doctor's office. And I have so many clients who tell me that they remember their mom sitting in with them during doctor's appointments saying, Susie's been eating X amount of foods every day. And just as a side note, you'll hear me speak in very ambiguous terms because it's very important that we don't put that a certain amount of food or a certain size is right or wrong. So I speak in very ambiguous terms just to let our listeners know that again, mom would be sitting in with the kid talking to the doctor, like, I don't think this is healthy. What should we be doing? And that little girl or little boy is sitting in that doctor's office with mom, hearing what's being said about them and saying, Oh gosh, what does this mean about my eating habits? Do I need to start changing it? And the research shows that at least 85% of girls will have done something to change their body by the age of 10 years old, which still gives me goosebumps every single time I share that. Because how significant is that? That by 10 years old, on top of learning to be a human and wanting to play, I have already thought about if I was them of what it means to change my body, either because somebody's saying I'm eating too much or too little, or my body appears to be in a way that doesn't make others happy. What do I need to do about that? Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

As children, we want to please our caregivers. We want to please our parents. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yep. And along those lines, our other messages for my clients, I often give the analogy that our brain, when we're growing up, is kind of like a blank tape. And everybody who helps raise us, teachers, neighbors, religious leaders, our parents, our grandparents, everybody is adding messages that starts to fill that mixed tape of how we should see ourselves in the world. So that also becomes a contributing factor of all these people making comments, even if they're not being directly told to us, we're hearing them.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

I love that analogy, Brittany, because kids are, I mean, they are constantly collecting data on that tape, right? What does mom or my big sister refuse to eat? What does she say after she sees herself in a picture? Or does she call herself disgusting? Does she celebrate or become jealous when someone has lost weight and she feels like she hasn't lost enough? So those messages definitely all get filed somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah, they definitely do. I'm just sitting here like nodding, reliving moments from my childhood as you're talking. I grew up in a household with a mother who was a registered dietitian. So there was always an emphasis around healthy eating and making sure that we were fueling our bodies properly. But there was also the lens of my mom had a very complex relationship with her body. And so that good food, bad food mindset made its way into our household. And then also my body type was very, very different from my mom's. And so for me, being taller and definitely broader and just having a larger body type, I think she saw that happening and wanted to do whatever she knew how to keep me from becoming overweight or obese in her mind.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Was it almost like as a kid you took that as, oh, because I'm taller, because I'm broader, because I'm just genetically built in a larger frame, that must mean I'm unhealthy. Is that how you took it?

SPEAKER_01 10:01

It was more along the lines of my mom sees things that she doesn't think are healthy happening to my body. And this was like I danced, I was at the studio six, seven days a week. So I was moving a ton in a way that I loved. My body required a lot of fuel to help get me through that because it's two classes per night, sometimes rehearsals mixed in with that. So you got to fuel yourself to be able to get through that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Brittany, that begs the question, and I'd love for you to share your thoughts on this. If, as a mother or a caregiver, if you are truly concerned about the health of your daughter or son, what is the best way to talk about it without automatically making it unhealthy from a mental health perspective? Where's that line? Because let me give you an example. I had a, well, I still do have a son, but he's a man now. But when he was a young boy, he was underweight to the point where the doctors and nutritionists were very concerned. That's just his build. And then I had another child who didn't struggle in that way. So the way the doctors wanted them to eat was very different. That's just one example. But how do you talk about things like this from a health perspective without impacting mental health?

SPEAKER_00 11:19

I love this question. And I'm also going to throw a shout out to Amanda. We wanted to give her kudos before answering this question because the words that she was using are the words that I use, fueling your body, right? So everything that we take in in our nutrition is to help our body move in ways that we want to enjoy it, which is also what she said too in enjoying dance, right? So I always tell people to find a type of movement, whatever it is that you enjoy doing and you could do for the rest of your life, even if it never changed your body, right? So helping people find ways to move their body that will positively impact mental health, because we know that moving even for 15 minutes releases endorphins in the brain. I think it's also important kind of what you were alluding to that, at least I was hearing, is recognizing that every single person's body is completely unique based on our genetics, based on our lifestyles, all those things are going to contribute. This is not black and white and like do this and you get that because we all have unique bodies. So we're all going to need something different. And I don't expect parents to have to know all those pieces, but just understanding when you're looking for a provider, you want to find a provider who understands that there's a lot that goes into fueling our body and understanding what it may, I'm using air quotes here, what it may look like in order for it to thrive most successfully.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

There's also this element of I just started seeing a registered dietitian recently. And that was something that was a big step for me because as I said before, there was a lot of messaging that I received growing up about certain foods being good or bad, and there were certain types of food that we just never had in the house. And so that definitely trained me to view them as I'm gonna get it whenever I can. Like if I'm at a friend's house or out by myself, like once I learned how to drive, there was definitely a pull to foods that weren't gonna fuel my body as well, and because they had been quote unquote off limits growing up. So it took a really long time. I mean, I'm 39 now. I just started seeing a dietitian this year, and leading up to that, my relationship with food was really hard for me to talk about. So I think there's also the importance of understanding your own trauma around those situations, but also the generational trauma that comes with how you view your body and how you view your relationship with food. So I think all this to say, you know, I'm glad that I finally got to the point where I was comfortable to do that, but it was definitely a long road to get there. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

If I may, would it be okay? I just wanted to comment on that. That's another great point, Amanda, that is often forgotten about too, is when we put food in categories of either good or bad, right? Healthy or unhealthy, right? And and recognizing that that impact, and exactly like the example that you gave of like, well, then I'm gonna take opportunities to seek out those foods every chance that I get, and that can end up leading to binge eating, which has become the most popular, popular meaning the highest diagnosed at this point condition across the United States at this point for exactly that reason. Foods were good or bad. And so then because they gained this kind of like secret element of enjoyment, people really struggled with it. So so thank you. I'm sure a lot of my clients can relate to you sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

One element of this that I personally don't think that we talk about enough is think about all the things that women could be doing with their brain power that we've allocated to our bodies. Just think about it. What could you learn? What could you build? What relationships could you really nourish? Just the joy that you could experience if there wasn't constantly this background application running in your brain. And I'm just curious for you, Brittany, what do you see in terms of the impact to our nervous system of chronic body monitoring?

SPEAKER_00 15:26

The term that's often used is uh food noise. It applies to how much we think about food is like the popular term within the eating disorder world. And I love the way you phrased it in terms of like what could we be doing? And they talk about that a lot in like the substance use world of like now that you're in recovery, how could you be spending all that brain space on healing the body in other ways? And then as far as the nervous system, one of the highest comorbidities, which means that like we're diagnosing more than one health condition at a time, is OCD. Uh, OCD very often goes with eating disorders in this like obsessive thinking pattern, and that to the point of like not enjoying life, not contributing in life. So, as far as the nervous system goes, thinks about how we as human beings, we're social creatures, we're supposed to be connected. But eating disorders and a difficult relationship with the food actually pulls you away from the people that you care about in order to keep up with the rules that you put in place, the lifestyle that you put in place. So then depression and anxiety set in as well. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

And that's a really good segue to another question that I think everyone who's listening could benefit from hearing your answer to as a licensed professional. But what are some signs that ordinary dissatisfaction with how we look has crossed into something where someone should really seek professional help?

SPEAKER_00 16:49

So we look at it on a spectrum as far as body image and also the relationship with food. Some things to look out for is how often are you paying attention to what you choose to eat with what you have paired up with the day? Are you somebody who says, I'm going out to dinner with friends? That's going to impact the food that I choose to eat earlier in the day. Or I'm going to an exercise class tomorrow morning. Does that change how I eat? Looking at how you view yourself when you're trying on new clothing, how much are you scrutinizing what you see in the mirror? How much does that contribute to whether you even choose to go out with friends at night? Are you spending lots of time focused on what you're eating, how your appearance is, so much so that it's taking away from your opportunity to spend time with people who matter to you? Are you noticing changes in your physical health? So when you go to the doctor, your pulse has changed, your blood pressure has changed, your cholesterol has changed. I think those are some of the biggest earlier signs that I think would be helpful for people to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Yes, I love what you said about are you someone who, because you're going to a fitness class or you're about to go hang out with the girls and go to a dinner, does that impact what you eat? What if movement weren't repayment for eating? What if it was just something that feels good, right? Instead of gave me goosebumps.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

That's what I talk about all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

That was a huge, huge struggle for me. I think one of the signs that I finally decided to pay attention to was having a really visceral reaction anytime a conversation turned to food, body size, weight. And as Elizabeth and I have talked before, frequently as women, conversations over the friends, family, like that's where the conversation goes. And anytime that would happen, it would just be like an immediate shutdown for me. I would, I just want to crawl out of my skin and go hide somewhere because I just didn't want to talk about it. So that was when I finally started bringing it up in therapy. And I think there's a lot of different signs. And it's just, again, like we talk about all the time, taking enough time to stop and pay attention.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

What advice would you give to our listeners of things they can do on their own if they're not ready to come to some talk to someone such as yourself, of how they can rebuild a relationship with movement when exercise has historically been tied to either punishment or earning food?

SPEAKER_00 19:15

That's a wonderful question. This comes from what we call cognitive behavioral therapy. So we look at how our thoughts and our mood impact our choices. Right. So thinking in terms of the music you listen to, the posts that you look at, the people that you follow, the conversations you're having with people in person, as far as how you feel about your body and exercise, and thinking to yourself, does this conversation lead to me feeling comfortable or happy or content or excited? Or are these conversations leaving me with a feeling of like, oh gosh, I need to look at that part of my body. It doesn't look like somebody else, which leads me to feeling bad or anxious. Do these posts, does music that I'm listening to, does it make me want to change something about my body in a way that might be harmful? Versus changing it so that I can more effectively enjoy the body that I'm in. Right. And it also makes a difference to find the right places. What I mean by that is a lot of fitness studios do have a mission statement. You might have to search a little bit, but following on social media and figure out like what kind of messages are they sharing? And does it align with you having a body that you can enjoy and feeling welcomed literally the moment that you go in? Not 50 classes from now, but feeling welcome the moment that you go in and every single time they're after. So it does take a little bit of homework, but there are a lot of great studios out there that are willing to share that information about how they feel about every person who walks in the door.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Right. I love that. And don't be afraid to shop around and don't get pressured into buying a membership too soon. Follow your intuition and see where you really feel welcome. One other thing I want to remind our listeners of, and it's so funny because Brittany, Amanda and I, we had a conversation about this maybe a few months ago, and you actually are the one who reminded me of this. So kudos to you. Amanda's getting lots of shout-outs today. But we are grown-ass women, and we're allowed to unfollow people who make us feel like garbage.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Simple click.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

It is. I'm like, oh my God, that's so obvious. But, anyways, where I'm going with this related to this topic, Brittany, it makes me think again of my 18-year-old daughter. And she has a young lady who she's been friends with for a number of years. And this young lady is built completely differently than my daughter. And this young lady will post things on her social media of very provocative bikini pics, close up pictures of her clothing size. And then she'll post that and say, Oh, I feel bad for anyone who doesn't look like me, and or wouldn't you hate to be a large things like that. These are things that young women Who are coming of age are experiencing amongst their and now I'm doing air quotes friend group. Comment on that.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

It is very unfortunate that that is the direction that we have moved in. That is kind of like where our focus is is paying attention to the number inside of our clothing or the way that we look in what we choose to wear in those posts. And we know that unfortunately that picture might have been what we see, but how much went into taking that picture with filters, with lighting, with a specific way to pose. And there's so many posts and articles about how to pose your body for the perfect picture. It's so unfortunate that that's what we're seeing because I think it goes back to what we mentioned earlier. How much could we be accomplishing as women if we weren't focusing so much on this particular thing of just the facade of our body rather than what it's able to accomplish? While you were kind of sharing that example, I was over here shaking my head like, wow, the poor girls who are being exposed to that. And because it's out there, I say this all the time in therapy, until you know any different, that's your reality, right? So we know differently because we're grown women who've had many life experiences, but these young ladies, this is their reality until they see or hear or are talked to about something different.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

And I try to tell my daughter too, this young lady of that's a friend of hers who does this, I would say she's experiencing a significant amount of body noise as well. Don't think that just because somebody portrays themselves in a certain kind of way in social media doesn't mean that they aren't obsessively experiencing body noise.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yes, that is very well said, and a point that I think is one of the biggest myths within within the world of eating disorder is that a thin-bodied person is not struggling with their image or struggling with eating. We find the people of literally every single size deep down is struggling with how they feel about themselves. So I love that you brought that up because that is not talked about enough.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Can you give us three just really ridiculously simple and basic practical things that our listeners can do this week to reduce their own body noise?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

My very favorite is to ask everybody to open the closet door, look to see what's in the closet, and pick out something because you love the pattern or the color or how soft the clothes feel. Put it on and do not look at any mirror for the day. So what you're doing is putting on a piece of clothing that feels comfortable on your body, regardless of how it appears on your body. That's the like the one of the biggest things to do. And I've seen such a change for people. It's yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I love that. I've never heard that, Brittany. That is either I I love that. I love, love, love that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Yeah. Second would be like we alluded to paying attention to who's on your social media. Are they encouraging positive feelings for you to feel hopeful and comfortable in your body and learn more about how to nourish it and offer fantastic exercise for it? Or is it taking away from your ability to enjoy your body as it is? And then, like we alluded to, I think trying different places to enjoy fitness is going to be really key because everybody looks at fitness differently. And I know that there's usually a hesitancy for people to try something new. So grabbing a friend and saying, I want to try a new fun fitness class with you. Will you come try this with me? Right. And doing it with somebody who you recognize appreciates their body or at the very least, won't make comments and will encourage you not to make comments while you're trying fitness as well.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

I love that. Those are three fantastic practical things that anybody listening can do immediately. And that's exactly what oh, that's great. I'm gonna practice those too. Thank you. I like those a lot.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Some great tips today. I I really am glad that we decided to revisit this topic with you, Brittany, because I think you've offered some really helpful advice. So it is that time for shrink this. So, Brittany, would you like to share shrinking behavior?

SPEAKER_00 26:10

So I was thinking about this. As therapists, we don't share a lot, but this one I'm happy to share because it definitely comes up in the world of yoga. As a yoga instructor, I am not what many would consider the typical presentation of a yoga instructor in terms of the size of my body, in terms of my height, and in terms of my flexibility. So oftentimes I notice while teaching class, while being amongst others and one of the yoga studios I teach for, that I have a different presentation of my body. But I noticed that, especially in terms of what I would choose to wear to class, because I teach a cardio and vinyasa blend, we get a little sparkly. So I want to be comfortable and not overheated in my body. So I would notice that in terms of wearing shorts and kind of like a crop top, tank top, that I would start to feel like, oh gosh, I don't have the same type of body as the people that I'm teaching. Does that mean that like I'm worthy of teaching them? Thankfully, with things like becoming a Kirby yoga instructor and learning that everyone is welcome in the yoga space. I actually now challenge myself every class to wear specific pieces of clothing so that everybody feels welcome to wear what's comfortable for their body so they can freely move and not get overheated.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

I would love to invite Brittany to share where your classes are.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

I teach for Vibe Yoga Lab. They're located uh in Lancaster on Main Street. I teach what's called rhythm flow for them, which is a 45-minute segment of some cardio moves, some Pilates, some Vinyasa, and some really empowering movement to kind of connect in. So I teach for them. And then I also teach my own classes of gentle Vinyasa flow, helping people work up towards building that flexibility they'd like to enjoy in their body in Lockport out of a karate studio called the T and K that sits in the tops plaza of Lockport.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

And just so our listeners know, because uh we have listeners from all over the country and Lancaster, New York, and Lockport, New York, just so everybody knows. Excellent. Thank you. So, Elizabeth, do you have a shrinking behavior that you want to share? I do. It just happened last night and it's related to this topic. So I would love to share it. Just for our listeners' knowledge, Amanda, you know this, but my husband, he has really gotten into riding motorcycles. He's been dabbling in it for about three, four years, and I just was always thinking, no, it's foolish, it's dangerous, I'm not doing it. He's been begging me to go riding with him. Well, I did finally go ride with him a few weeks ago, and I fell in love with it. So the shrinking moment last night, I was on the back of his motorcycle with him, and we were just cruising around, just having an enjoyable time, just the two of us. And I found myself as I'm holding on to him, I looked down and I was like, oh my gosh, in my brain, I'm just thinking, my stomach is sticking out. So then I was like trying to suck in. Why? Because I was worried about the people that were pulling up to at the lights, thinking that I was big. So I just thought that was something that would be a really great example of where body image influenced my thinking and definitely took up real estate in my brain of otherwise enjoying this really enjoyable ride, just me and my husband. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Small and real. It does happen anytime, anywhere. Yes. So thank you again, Brittany, for coming on the podcast today and sharing all of these amazing tips and perspectives. I think just as we close today's episode, what would you say to a woman who's listening to today's episode and has reached a point where she's exhausted from fighting her body constantly? What advice would you give to her in closing?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I would say to find your people, to find the friends who are exhausted with you, who are ready to look at things differently with a little bit more compassion, a little bit more kindness, to find the best helpful professionals, find the right fitness studio, find the right helpful people to start nourishing the body and recognizing that, yes, there has been a lot of messages brought on in all directions. And there are people like the three of us sitting here who are shouting to the rooftops that there's another way of looking at our bodies. And we were here to kind of like have that conversation and alleviate some of that fatigue and maybe work towards respecting the body as a place to start.