Same Grief, Different Journey: Introducing Elizabeth Gonzalez with Advanced Healing Counseling in Florida [TW: Suicide]

[TW: This episode mentions Suicide]  In this episode Elizabeth and I explore grief through different lenses.  We take many twists and turns as we explore what grief has looked like over the years for us.  This is a more personal journey into some enlightened ways we have come to look at loss in our life.  While we may have had to dissect our emotions along the way, finding ways to understand and heal from loss is something we have gotten really comfortable with.  It's not easy and it takes time, sometimes years.  If you enjoyed hearing this episode with Elizabeth, leave us a comment and we will have her back on. Actually, we will probably have her back on anyways, she's brilliant. 😉

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back to the grounding room. We are here today with a special guest. She is my sister. Her name is Elizabeth, and she's a mental health counselor down in Miami. So the sound is gonna be a little bit phone-like, but that's because we're distance sisters. So hi Elizabeth, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hello, I'm fantastic. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Doing great. How's your Easter going?

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Pretty lazy. Loving it.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

That's excellent. Um, so last week I did a meditation podcast on grief. And I thought maybe you and I could challenge each other a little bit on some of the grief that we've gone through and maybe get a little vulnerable with this.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Sounds like uh pretty good conversation considering our history.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Perfect. So I thought I would start with just a quick question that was if you can recall your first experience with grief and maybe give us a little bit of insight to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

So I think that my experience with grief versus my experience with death, like those would be two different things to me. So I don't know which avenue to go down in regards to like loss. So I feel like there's just so many different ways that you can look at grief. Um, if I had to say loss, I could talk about the first loss that I experienced that might actually be my first experience with grief if I think about it critically. I can remember being uh about maybe six or seven.

unknown 1:33

Um, and there was an incident. I don't exactly know how the incident went down, but I think it was dad that I think he was just in a bad space at that moment, needed to say some things.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

And I found out um through a drunken emotional moment that I had a brother that had passed away before I was born. I don't remember the emotions associated with that. I I don't feel like I was old enough to experience that or understand that. I just understood that my dad wasn't okay when he was sharing that with me. So I don't know where to where to even go in regards to exploring the emotions associated with that, other than the remainder of my life and kind of learning who I am as a result of that event. I mean, just to be completely organic, what what that's evolved into in my in my understanding of the developmental theory is just getting starting to get some awareness about the reality of how the human brain developed and our character developed.

unknown 2:28

And I've been able to connect a lot of dots, puzzle pieces, and recognize that throughout my life. I had to accept that I had two very emotionally undeveloped parents as a result of that loss.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

It was an unexpected death. And it was 30 days before I was born. So knowing what I know about the developmental theory and that we start to become affected by life circumstances, the moment of conception and therefore experiencing probably the greatest grief anybody could, losing a child before I even saw the light of day.

unknown 2:56

And that kind of left me unable to experience grief in the way I think most people do. It's I I'm kind of desensitized, I was desensitized to it before I even got here. And then fast forwarding to coming into a world where I had two parents that loved me the best that they could, but they they couldn't be emotionally present.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

It was impossible given the circumstances. So that kind of left me feeling disconnected from the beginning of time. It's what I knew. It's what I what I knew when I when I what I knew is what I knew. So I'm born into an environment that to me is normal because it's my only, it's my only barometer for normal.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Well, how do you how do you think that's affected you over the years? I mean, how has it impacted you in such a way that you can tangibly see it?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Oh yeah. But I don't even think it was the I don't even think it was the knowledge that my brother had passed away that gave me the awareness that I have now. It was my mom when my mom found out that I knew. Um, I remember her sitting me down with the intention of making me feel better to tell me that the only reason that she never killed herself was because of me. And her her what she meant at the time was like, it's okay. She was trying to soothe me in the best way that she knew how at 20-something years old with no emotional awareness whatsoever or emotional maturity. And my little six-year-old brain immediately went into parentification. And I started, I believed from that moment forward that it was my job to keep her alive. And that I think turned into the way that I love. Like I just have become the I I I had become the kind of person that I feel like in order for somebody to love me, I have to, I have to be valuable. Like that was my purpose in life, was to keep her alive. And and when and that translated into all my relationships romantic, friends, family, all of them.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Which can be super complicated when it's not your responsibility to keep everybody alive.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

I don't think I learned that until I was about 40, but yeah. That I guess leads me to the moment that I lost my mom. Like there were other losses in between there, but like that was my mission in life was to make sure that my mom was okay. And then unexpectedly she was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was 28, and within six months she was gone. So I think in that moment I felt I felt like I failed.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Do you hold on to that still?

SPEAKER_01 5:29

I don't think so anymore. No, because I think where where I graduated to relatively quickly was just recognizing that in order for my mom tried so hard throughout her life to to find happiness, to find peace, to to find anything that that made her feel good.

unknown 5:50

And I didn't foresee it ever happening. You know, it was always with a substance or with a relationship or with me.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

There was never any organic, joyous experience with her. So I feel like one of the ways that I was able to find solace in her death was was knowing that she was finally free of a prison that she had created for herself emotionally.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

That's yeah, that I can totally relate to that with my mother. And I should mention that we're both half-sisters, so we do not have the same mother. I I should have mentioned that in the beginning. That's okay. That's all right. Um, yeah, so we're half-sisters, we have the same father, different mothers, but um, yeah, I can relate to that so impactfully what you just said, that when you're constantly seeking something, um, you're looking to a future that's unsure, it's unpredictable. And in in order to actually feel safe and to feel like your life is valuable, it's actually to be in this present moment. I can relate to what you just said so much that both of our mothers were seeking. They were they were on a mission to find. And like you said, with substances or men or whatever, um, whatever means necessary, they were looking for something that was right in front of them all along if they could have found a way to give it to themselves. But honestly, uh when my mother passed, very similar, I felt, oh my god, she's at peace right now, and and what a blessing for her. She doesn't have to search anymore for something that she just couldn't find uh externally.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There was that, there was that constant. I can recall, I think with both of us, there was that con we were cut, we were always banging our head against the wall, trying to figure out like what is it exactly that you're looking for? Like, like what what can I do? Like, what what is it gonna take for you to see that this is not where you're gonna find what you're looking for?

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Well, I think the irony of it all in us asking that question is that we've been seeking the same questions for years too.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

And it was so much easier when we got to focus on them, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 7:56

It is. Um, and it's always easier to see somebody's pitfalls and downfalls um than it is to look inside yourself. But uh yeah, I mean, I feel like since you finished up mental health counseling and gotten into it, um, you've substantially changed, you know, what you were seeking. And same thing with me. I mean actually, I think maybe by the time my mother died, that was my my peace. Is I don't have to be her rock anymore. Um, and not obviously not that I'm grateful that she's gone. I wish she was here and I wish I could call her every day. But um, yeah, through her through her finding peace, I almost felt my own peace. And I can I could see very much um the same thing with you and your mother.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah, and but I think that also speaks volumes to the similarities between you and I. Like it's they it's crazy to me how similar your mom was to my mom.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yeah. I mean, they were literally the same person, very childlike. Keeping themselves as small as possible, um, which the irony of that, I think, um what a great lesson they taught us is that we've never been small or quiet or um unpredictable. I mean, we're we are together, I mean, we're forced to be reckoned with, who's just dancing in a car and we're very much okay with I don't want to say attention, but we're very much okay with I guess attention is a good way, um, where the two of them would do whatever they could to avoid any sort of you know attention on them.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

I don't know, I struggle with that concept because it was so much peacocking for men. Um with both of them.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Well, yeah, I mean, there's that, but I don't I think in general they were both just as small as they could possibly be. And as far as peacocking goes for men, um, both of them were beautiful, both of them were uh, you know, gorgeous eyes, beautiful figures. Um, so it made sense that men would be attracted to them. But their sole uh purpose in a relationship was to prove their value, which made them very subservient that you know they would give to without needing to receive. And it was in in many ways for me, there was a level of, and I hate I hate to use this word because it's a really potent word, but it works in the in the theory of this, it was really pathetic almost.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Like a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, you you have value and you don't see that, and you you can matter to people, and but I do think at points in their life both of them were in really vulnerable positions to be manipulated and treated really poorly. So, you know, when you chose to go into mental health counseling, was there something that you were seeking in yourself that you maybe have found or that you're still seeking?

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Oh my god, I was my first client, absolutely. I was like, I broke it, fix me, please. I think that halfway through my bachelor's when my mom passed away unexpectedly. So I had already started school. I knew that I wanted to be a counselor. I can remember being in high school, and this was like my dream to be a counselor. I didn't at the time understand why I was drawn to it. And fast forward and just kind of give up over raised by it because it's not the subject for today, but it is an important subject to me. But um, when I was 26, I went to a friend of mine's graduation, she was graduating from mental health. And I can remember it's clear today, God speaking to me, telling me this is what you're gonna do. And at the time I was a high school dropout. I was like, no, that's not gonna happen. But something pulled me to it. It wasn't, it wasn't a conscious thought, it wasn't an awareness that I was going to grow through it. But as I went through the process, I was like thirsty. As I was learning things, I was applying it to myself. And I was like, oh my God, they're supposed to be connecting so many dots. I think the answer is that initially, no, I was not expecting to fulfill anything within myself. But very early on in the process, I realized that that was going to be part of my truth. And it it delivered. It's still delivering. Because I'm I'm thirsty to learn more about the about the field all the time. So every day I'm learning more about myself as I'm learning these concepts and I'm applying them to myself. And even more so now that you're in somatics, because nervous system work is a big part of what I do. Trauma work is a big part of what I do. It's it's what I love. And getting to understand how the physical body experiences trauma and how to purge that from us, I think is trauma and grief. When I say trauma, that's a very general term. Trauma, grief, abuse. There's there's so many different ways that you can look at trauma. And I don't think people understand how broad that category is. A lot of people want to want to equate it to like a car accident or or a death, even, but but it's not always that big. There, there's so much involved in it and and what it does to our bodies and you learning all this and figure out. But I feel like I feel like I could ask you the same question if I come full circle. Like that's where I've landed. Like, what about you? You know what I'm saying? You you decided to study somatics after studying 12, 12,000 other things. You were like, oh, I also want to do this. Like, what motivated you to want to get into that?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Well, I think I realized that my nervous system was completely dysregulated. I mean, basically, my I had full body acne. I my my heart was palpitating. I was going through some things in my life that I really didn't know how to regulate. I mean, I would call you every morning at four o'clock in the morning and just beg you to hear me for a little bit just to feel validated. What I realized was, you know, there has to be a way. I mean, I was in therapy for two years and I'm I was talking to somebody, which I had two therapists that were terrible. One, you know, I told her a really vulnerable thing and she kind of brushed me off like it was silly what I was saying. And then the other one, I mean, he made a pass at me, uh, you know, seven, eight sessions in, and I, you know, I didn't feel safe anymore. So I started to look at alternative ways to to move through my my nervous system dysregulation. And when I found somatic work and I sat with somebody, it took me only seven sessions to understand what was happening. And I I'll me, I mean, I'll never forget the best session I ever had is she we were talking about something in my childhood, and I was like, you know, I don't think I've ever gotten over the fact that everybody used to make fun of me. And I used to laugh it off and just pretend, oh, I'm laughing with everybody, but at my core, I mean, I was devastated that I was the laughing stock of a lot of people. I mean, so bad so that people have come to me and apologized years later. You know, she had me, she walked me through this moment where she was like, close your eyes and be back in that moment where somebody's making fun of you. And she's like, What would you say to them if you could say anything in that moment? And I remember screaming, I mean, as loud as I possibly could, leave me alone. And I thought, I think that's what I was saying all along. And what I've realized was that anything bad in your life that happens is something that lives in your cells. It's it's at a cellular level that this lives in you, and there's a way to release it. And it's that simple. I mean, it is just that simple to close your eyes and just say the thing you never got to say. And um, and yeah, I mean, after that seven sessions, I was like, I can't believe that she just turned my life around like this. Um, yeah, I had to I had to learn. I had to know how I could help people with that. And it turned out being a massage therapist for the last 24 years, I it was easy.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

You're already doing it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Well, yeah, I mean, essentially working physically on somebody's body is in that itself, but there was no connection to the mind yet. And it was not until I took the the course that I took that I was like, oh, this is the way that I can can connect the mind and body, and then I just grew from there. So I think accepting the things that happened in my childhood that brought me to the moments of the dysregulation were probably the hardest part because it was realizing for years I was so angry and bitter at our father. And now I look at it the way he treated me and who he was as a person, and and why wasn't I enough for him, and you know, all these things. And then it was like through this class, I realized that none of it was ever about me. It was all his demons that he was dealing with. And now, if somebody asks me about him, I have no hate in my heart anymore. His demons were his to deal with, and so yeah, it's releasing that kind of stuff that you know. I think, and I think maybe you can really relate to this being a mental health counselor, is this idea that we create a story at a young age and we live in that story and nobody can take us out of it. It doesn't matter what anybody says, and I think that was my story. My father was awful, he treated me terrible, I was never good enough for him. And I almost think I thrived and loved telling people that story because it made me feel validated. I maybe they gave me a look of pity, maybe they gave me a touch on the arm, maybe they gave me something I was looking for from him that I was never gonna get. And in reality, I just needed to understand that it was never about me. And it was his demons that he was fighting, and I don't need the pity, and I don't need the touch on the arm, and it's all okay. And that was wild for me. And that's how, yeah, that's how this class became who I am now, is I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

So many things just came to my head, but the number of people who have therapy hurt, I have a visceral reaction. Like you and I have talked about this before, but I have a visceral reaction every time I hear somebody tell me about one of their bad therapeutic experiences. It's already hard enough for somebody to get vulnerable enough to be willing to ask for help. It's not easy for anybody to ask for help. So when somebody finally does it and they're betrayed, it's not very disheartening. It's very concerning how many unhealthy people are allowed to do this profession. People who are who are judging, like genuinely judging. I think it's it's an insecurity on their part. Assessing to me is something entirely different. And that, and I and I encourage my clients, I encourage my kid, I encourage my friends, like, do you know, pay attention to what's going on around you? Assess the people that you determine that you decide you're gonna let in your life. I don't think that that we should we shouldn't be watching. I don't think we we shouldn't be making determinations based on what we're seeing that their actions line up with their words. That's important, uh, but not for the sake of making a judgment. Like I can be compassionate with the fact that, okay, that's how you want to live your life cool. That's that's you do you boo-boo, but but unless they were here in my own lane, okay, because you ain't my people. Um, I think that's okay too. Doesn't mean that I'm judging. But that's just that's just kind of a rabbit hole outside of it's not even a rabbit hole because as practitioners, if you don't love yourself enough to not be judgmental, you shouldn't be helping people learn how to not be judgmental. There's just so much that goes into it. And at the end of the day, the reality is that that there's so few, I don't want to say healed because I don't think that this is a destination we arrived to, but there's so few well people in this world that there wouldn't be enough practitioners because there's not enough people that that really have the foundation to stand on to teach. It's a very sad truth.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Well, can I okay, let's let's add to that real quick. So, my favorite guru that I talk to you about all the time. Um, one of the things that he says is when you are triggered by um a judgment in somebody else. So I'll give you a perfect example. So I used to have a woman in my life who was the single most negative person in the world, and I'm the total opposite, right? I'm positive Polly, and I'm like, nope, every day is great, and there's rainbows and unicorns and glitter. Every day when she would come in, I would get so mad. Like, like I would let her ruin my day, and yeah, it would, it would frustrate me to no end that, like, uh, what do you even have to be upset about? Like, you have a great life when you're triggered like that, or when you find yourself judging another character for something. Here's here's a somatic practice for you. Look inside and see the parts of you that are similar that you're actually judging inside of your own body. And oh my god, when I heard that, I had to go all the way back to this person who's not been in my life for years, but you know, four years she was there, and and it was frustrating to me. But I thought about it and I'm like, I genuinely hate the days where I feel negative. Maybe I'm PMSing, maybe somebody just pissed me off or whatever. But I hate those days and I judge myself for them. And I say the things like, what do you have to be so upset about? You have this great life, you you know, you have the home you dreamed of, you have money in the bank. Like, what is your problem? But what I've realized is that maybe it was just my body wanting to feel something negative for a little bit, or maybe it was something stuck in my body that was negative that needed to get out. And my reaction to suppress it was the worst thing I could possibly do for itself. So, yeah, when you find yourself judging other people, it's not about stop it, don't be judgmental. It's maybe look inside and actually ask yourself, what is it that I'm judging about myself? And and what is living in there that I'm suppressing that I need to find a way to let out. So sorry to interrupt you, but I just I love that guy. He's I love my dad, he's amazing. So yeah, anyways, go ahead, please continue on.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

No, those that I think I think I landed on that one, but but I I just you said so many important things, but I just kept thinking like whenever you were talking about your experiences in therapy, because I've heard that so many times.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

And well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I mean I'm open-minded enough to say, okay, that one didn't work for me. I'm lucky enough that as a child, I was sent to so many therapists that all made me feel less than, not equal to, uh, not valuable in my opinions, not smart enough. Um, I can, I mean, I can go on and on about every therapist I've ever been to, but it has never deterred me from being in therapy. Because just because one therapist isn't for you, denying the idea that therapy can work for you is a detriment to you. So, of all the people, and I still, still to this day have not found the right mental health counselor. And while it's whatever legally or morally or ethically wrong that my sister be my mental health counselor, I really I do still seek therapy because I do think that there are wonderful therapists in the world that I have not been fortunate enough to meet yet. Um, and yes, I do utilize my sister's knowledge in a very personal way, not in a professional way, um, to help get me through a lot of traumatic or even mediocre things going on in my life where um, I mean, she can attest to this. If she doesn't pick up the phone, I often send her a meme that's like, what could you possibly be doing that's more important than my problems right now? Just sometimes having a loved one. Like sometimes you just need to call and say the weird things that you can't say to other people. But I think sometimes just having a safety net, which at the end of the day, we worked through all the stressors and traumas and disrespect and crazy things that we could have done to each other. And we got to a point where even if I don't have a mental health counselor, we know we have somebody who genuinely, unapologetically and unconditionally loves us at the end of the day. And there's really no greater gift in life than that. Um, the so I wanna I want to um circle us back around because um we started this podcast on grief and um and we went to so many different directions, which is awesome. Um, and I don't hate that we did that. And I hope every time we talk, we do that, which one of the things that her and I agree on is that the things that we've gone through in life are really valuable in how we got to where we are today. And so some of the storylines that we are gonna follow and go down are gonna be I hopefully really impactful for everybody. But for now, I'm gonna, I'm gonna cut us off here. There is a lot of ambiguity going on with the conversation that we're holding because we have left a lot of stuff out and we haven't started from the beginning, which honestly, I love how messy this is. So I don't want to go from the beginning and tell a storyline that honestly would probably be boring. I love that we went all over the place today. I think some of the points we made today were really important is um, you know, kind of how you worked through your grief and how you saw your mother in a different light. I think that's amazing. And I think we talked about a really important thing that I think would be great to end on is if you don't find your person and you feel like you want the help that you're seeking, don't give up until you find that person. You know, a lot of people turn their back on the idea of therapy, but it doesn't mean that you're not gonna find the thing, but stopping looking for it is really gonna hinder you in any sort of healing process. Cause like Elizabeth said, healing isn't a journey. Healing is something that's gonna be forever, and you're gonna have new things that come up that you're gonna heal from.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

But it's not a destination, it's a it's a journey.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Is that what I said? I said it's not a journey. Yeah, it's not a destination, it's not somewhere that you're seeking to go, just like you know, we were talking about our moms. We're constantly seeking for something, and unfortunately, death is what brought them peace, and that's not how we want people to live. So, yeah, I mean, keep your mind open, try all the things, and even if it's not therapy or cinematic work or whatever it is, just make sure that you're doing something for yourself every day that shows yourself your own body and who you are, your own soul, your whole, your whole being, that you love it, you appreciate that you're here on this planet, and that you know, you're gonna do something amazing for it. Um, yeah, it's Easter Sunday. My sister totally took the time to have a conversation with me. She even has guests at her house. Um, she's amazing. I will talk about how awesome my sister is for the rest of my life because she just is really a great person. Um, so thank you for taking the time. Thank you for the knowledge that you gave us today. Thank you for the vulnerability and the story that you gave us today. I know sometimes it's not easy talking about your mom, but you did it beautifully. We can't wait to see you guys next time. So, till next time, guys. Uh, I hope everybody has a great week. I hope everybody had a wonderful Easter. If that's your jam and you celebrate it, and we will see you next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Bye.