Ep. 6 - Belly Fat After 50 Isn’t About Weight (It’s About Inflammation)

Welcome back to Tea With Sophie.

Today, we’re talking about one of the most common—and frustrating—experiences in midlife: Belly fat.

But not in the way you’ve been taught to think about it.

Because after 50, belly fat isn’t just about weight. It’s about inflammation.

And if you don’t address the inflammation, nothing you try will truly work.

In this episode, we explore:

• What belly fat (visceral fat) actually is
• Why it’s not just cosmetic—but deeply connected to your health
• The role of inflammation in fat storage after menopause
• Why dieting alone often backfire
• The 3-layer framework that actually works:
• Nutrition
• Nervous system regulation
• Identity and mindset
• How chronic stress and cortisol drive inflammation
• And why your body holds onto fat when it doesn’t feel safe

You’ll also hear a powerful real-life story from a woman who:

• Went from chronic pain and inflammation
• To strength, energy, and vitality
• Lost over 70 pounds and 17 inches from her waist
• And completely transformed her relationship with her body

Because this isn’t about restriction. It’s about creating an environment where your body can finally heal.

And when that happens, everything changes.

If you’re listening to this and thinking, “I feel stuck in my body, and I don’t know what to do next,” please know—you don’t have to figure this out alone.

I offer a complimentary session that I call a Breakthrough Session, where we gently look at what’s going on and help you find your next step forward.

You can learn more and book your session at:
👉 sophieuliano.com/podcast

And if this episode supported you, be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss our next conversation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello, hello, hello, everybody, and welcome to Tea with Sophie. Got my trusty cup of tea right here now, a delicate white tea today. White tea is incredible. It's full of beautiful antioxidants, and it is the tea, is one of my one of my teas of choice. Actually, one of the things I always give a tea tip at the beginning of tea with Sophie, but one thing that can actually increase the antioxidant absorption with green tea, or particularly white tea, actually, is if you put a slice of lemon in it. So normally I do. I forgot today, but here we are. Okay. So today I want to uh talk to you about something that almost every woman that I work with struggles with at some point. And this is women from 45 all the way up to 75. And this is belly fat in midlife. It's a very real thing. Belly fat, also known as visceral fat. Now, they struggle with it, but not in the way that you might think. Because what most women do not realize is that belly fat after 50, it's not just about weight. It's not just about scale weight. Actually, it is more about inflammation. So that's what I really want you to take home today. It is more about inflammation. And later in this conversation, I'm going to bring on one of my long-term beautiful clients who's experienced this in a very, very real way, to the point where at one point she could barely move. And now, um, well, you'll hear from her what's actually changed for her. And this is very much where the inflammation piece comes in. But also for her, it's so directly tied to the literally the inches she lost off her waistline. So I'm very, very excited for you to meet uh meet her. So she'll come on in just a moment. Um, but first, belly fat. Okay, so belly fat, it's not just cosmetic. That's a really important thing to understand. We think, oh, you know, don't like the way I look. And obviously we want to look beautiful and wear lovely, you know, our jeans and our beautiful clothes, and we want to look good in clothes. But it's really important to understand that belly fat, this visceral fat, is metabolically active tissue and it produces inflammatory compounds, which are called cytokines, that create basically systemic inflammation in your body. And um it these these cytokines also affect your blood sugar, your hormones, and your cardiovascular health. So it's really important to understand that oh, I'm so vain, I want to lose what belly fat. No, no, no, no, no. This is about your long-term health. This is about aging powerfully. So if you have the visceral fat, which is really characterized by this fat that's kind of sits, starts really underneath your sort of breastbone off into your hips, and it's this sort of mid-section that starts growing and thickening, and it feels like almost like this harder kind of fat. And that is the fat where you sort of passed your fat threshold, um, and many of us get there through perimenopause and intermenopause. And then with a decline in estrogen, then your body will preferentially store fat in that midsection area. Um the good news is that your body will preferentially mobilize that fat if you do the right thing, which is what I teach my lovely clients to do. Now, dieting alone doesn't work. And this is where most women really get it wrong, because they think, oh, I just need to eat less, or I just need to be on a diet, or I just need to do some kind of something that's going to restrict or take my appetite away, or something like that. We can even, there's such a thing called skinny fat, which is where women can uh lose weight. And this is often what we see sometimes with the medications now, the GLP ones, but the visceral fatness isn't necessarily being mobilized. So women think I just need to, you know, rein it all in, eat less, restrict, go on some kind of, you know, you know, restrictive diet. But if inflammation is high, which it is in in most women, um, the body is in a protective state. And this means that when your body's in a protective state, it's going to resist fat loss. It's just going to. And so that's why I think so many women struggle because they push and they they're already in a dysregulated state where they're they've got a lot of stress, got a lot of information, then they're trying to try to force themselves and pile on the whole diet thing and without dealing with the kind of doing the inner work. And it's just really hard. It doesn't work. So I'm going to give you just a quick three-layer framework that will really help you, a good takeaway here. So the three-layer framework is basically nutrition, which is which is a very big driver with belly fat. Um, as a board-certified nutritionist, um, I really understand the power of nutrition, nutrition alone when it comes to your body mobilizing that visceral fat, that belly fat. Um, next is nervous system regulation and stress. That's the second in the three-layer framework. And the third is identity and psychology. And the three absolutely have to go together. They just do. And you'll you'll you'll hear this from my lovely uh client who I'm bringing on in a moment. But first, I'm just going to take us through those three things. So, number one, nutrition, one of my favorite topics. So, this is where we begin with the sort of very practical. Now, we want to start by flooding the body with foods that actively reduce inflammation. And we need to do that right from the get-go. I call it sort of flooding your cells with all of these antioxidants, these phytonutrients, these phytochemicals. That is the gold when it comes to bringing down inflammatory markers. Um, so we need to eat foods that are rich in fiber, phytonutrients. Um, because you see, these compounds these compounds, and it's super important to understand because antioxidants sounds like such a sort of generic overused term, um, and it sounds a bit vague, but they really do help these phytochemicals and phytonutrients to regulate inflammatory, well, to activate inflammatory pathways in your body. Very, very important. Now, the other piece here is with the very specific fibers that are part of a plant-based dietary pattern, right? You're going to support your gut microbiome, which is directly related to inflammation. Um, also, they're going to help stabilize your blood sugar and they're going to reduce oxidative stress, all of which are directly linked to inflammation. At the same time, we begin to gently remove the foods that exacerbate inflammation because we now know from an evidence-based perspective, what those are. Now, I understand there is so much misinformation on the internet. I think certainly in the last year, even worse in the last six months, there is so much misinformation when it comes to this piece. But it is very important, particularly for women over 50, to remove those foods, minimize them, if not remove them. And ladies who work with me in the Ignite program, we will just draw a line in the sand and we're just going to get rid of those. Why? Because the ladies I work with, like my client you're about to meet, you just want to get results and you want to get them fast. So what are we talking about? We're talking about highly processed foods, obviously, these are the obvious ones, ultra-processed foods, refined sugars, obviously, we know that. Um, refined starches and refined simple carbohydrates, and most importantly, high levels of saturated fat, which have been shown to increase inflammatory markers and disrupt metabolic health. I almost want you to think of it like foods that are high in saturated fat, and the main sources of saturated dietary sources of saturated fat are going to be meat and dairy. And in the plant-based kingdom, it's going to be coconut oil and palm oil. And so you really want to look at those and really reducing those because it's a very simple equation. Once I learned about this probably a good decade ago, really dug into the science. It's just like those saturated fats are going to do two things. It's like visceral fat, bring it on with those. And the second thing is, is at the same time, it's going to raise your cholesterol. And so that's something that you really, really also want to watch. Although this particular episode isn't about cholesterol, it's a very real thing, which it can start elevating after 50. So it's not about restriction, it's about creating a nutritional environment where the body can calm down, where the body can heal, where we're bringing down those inflammatory markers. And also some of the very specific foods that we're eating, such as our fermented plant-based veggies, can also help to significantly reduce the inflammatory markers. So when inflammation comes down, the body then becomes more responsive and energy improves, digestion improves, pain can starts to go away. That pain that aches and pains, and I can't move and it hurts to move my body, and I wake up in the morning with all this pain and aches and pains and feel like I'm 90 years old and I'm not. That's what I want to see improving. Also, you're going to notice when you are working out and you're working out hard, that you actually can work out much harder over when you're in your 50s and 60s, where most people think they can't, by the way. You can because your recovery time is so much easier because the inflammation, you're flooding your body with all these anti-inflammatory compounds. Okay, so that's nutrition. I'm going to draw a line on that piece there. Now, layer number two, we're going to your nervous system and stress. So this is where it gets really juicy and interesting because chronic stress is one of the biggest drivers of inflammation in the body, and it's something that is not talked about enough. You can see that I work holistically here dealing with all these different layers. So when we're under ongoing chronic stress, right, the body produces elevated levels of cortisol. And uh continued cortisol is part of our survival response. So it's very important to understand how cortisol works in the body. We need cortisol. Some people are like, oh, I've got too much cortisol, or cortisol is a bad thing. It's not a bad thing, it's a really, really good thing. But we need it regulated. We need it at the right time of day. We need a beautiful burst of cortisol in the morning. We don't need high rates of cortisol all day long pumping through our system, right? But it does become dysregulated as our nervous system becomes dysregulated. And then this in turn increases blood sugar, disrupts sleep, it really impairs your digestion. And over time it contributes directly to systemic inflammation. So there is a direct communication pathway between the brain and the immune system. All these things work together. So when the nervous system is in this state of chronic fight or flight or freeze, which is the stress response, the body receives the message that I'm not safe. It's not safe. I'm not safe. And if you're wandering around all the time, morning and noon and night, I'm not safe, I'm not safe, I'm not safe, then your inflammation is going through the roof. And back to my point at the beginning of today, your body is in protection mode. It's going to hold onto that fat. Okay. Why? Because when your body doesn't feel safe, it's going to prioritize protection over repair, anchor that is going to prioritize protection over repair. It hasn't got the bandwidth for the repair. It just hasn't. And that's why so many women after 50, their body, everything starts breaking down. They have not got the where the biological wherewithal to repair and to heal. So the body, when the body doesn't feel safe, inflammation will stay elevated. Most of the time, fat loss becomes so hard, and the body holds on to energy reserves. So we have to support the nervous system. And there's all sorts of different practices that you can do. But things, you know, like walking, breath work, uh creating different patterns of movement throughout the day, there's a lot of things that you can do and really need to do. Um, it's anything that signals the body that you're safe. And then when the body feels safe and only when it feels safe, you can begin to heal. All right, let's go. Before I bring my guest on, I'm so excited to bring her on. Let's just quickly uh talk about identity and psychology. So this is the most overlooked, it's and it's identity, because underneath everything, there's often a deeper emotional landscape going on. Now, if you're living in a state of chronic um dissatisfaction, overwhelm, disconnection, um self-criticism, self-sabotage, being unkind to yourself, being mean to yourself, talking badly to yourself, feeling like a failure, feeling lost and hopeless, and then that voice comes in, okay, it creates a constant, and even more of an internal stress signal in your body. And the body responds to that so directly. I always say that whatever your thoughts are, and if you know, we have thought to have 70 to 90,000 thoughts a day, and the research tells us that 80% of those thoughts are um negative and sort of downer thoughts on yourself. And then if you think about it, that's constantly igniting a stress signal in your body. Those stress hormones are flooding your body. They're responding to those stress thoughts of, oh, I'm failing, I'm getting too old, I'm not good enough, I can't do this. Look at my horrible belly, whatever it is, whatever it is, your body here, your cells here, and it does impact your health and it does lead to inflammation. So we do need to address what's happening at a deeper level. We can end up otherwise doing all the right things on the surface. Oh, I'm eating the right foods, I'm exercising, I'm going for my walks, I'm doing my yoga. But if we don't do this inner work, that is where you can get really stuck. So we begin asking, how am I relating to myself? What am I believing? What am I telling myself about me? You know, what am I carrying emotionally? Because true healing in midlife, it isn't just physical. It isn't. It really, really isn't. In midlife, it's a beautiful opportunity, it's a change where we I always believe that if we do whatever we don't deal with when we're younger in our 30s and 40s, perhaps because we couldn't, even our early 50s, we're just coping, we're surviving, we're raising family, we're doing our work. And then, and then comes this opportunity to step into the most powerful chapter of our life. But we do that and only do it when we do the inner work. Okay. So when these three layers begin to work together, that is when everything changes. So this is now when I want to bring on my beautiful um guest, Christine. So, Christine, can you unmute my darling and see if we can bring you on camera? I know Christine was having, ah, camera worked. Miracle.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

I was clicking a few times in the background. Oh, you are. She was nervous.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

She was like, oh, this is gonna work. All right. So, Christine, welcome, Christine. I am so happy to have you here. Any opportunity I get to hang out with you. Christine has been working, you know, with me for quite a long time now. And I just thought your your story is so incredibly relevant, right? You've probably you've heard what I've talked about so far, right? You're like, yes, yes, yes. So you're just such a beautiful example because when I think when we first started working together, your body was struggling with inflammation, right? So, do you want to talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yes. Um basically I had inflammatory arthritis. Every joint in my body hurt. I had fibromyalgia, many autoimmune diseases. Um, I was in constant pain. Uh, you know, it was my my hands hurt, you know, to hold things because they were so inflamed. And um doing something as simple as walking to the end of my very short driveway was agony. And I thought, what is happening and what is going on? This just cannot be my life. It was, and I had brain fog too. I was very um, I ended up actually, it was one of the reasons I had to leave the job. I was doing working with special edge kids because it was too much strain on my body.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah. So, what point did you realize that this isn't just about weight or diet? Because let's be very clear, Christine. You had tried over the years, so this wasn't an overnight uh situation of the inflammation was there, the belly fat was there, the weight was there, and you just talk very briefly about what you had kind of tried to do over the years.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah, I thought I really tried to eat healthy, you know, lots of lean fish and veggies and fruit and you know, olive oil, you know, that which I thought was the best thing. And small portions, um, don't eat those carbs. They're just gonna put the pounds on you, and you're already 75 pounds overweight. And um yeah, so it was it was oh, I just tried so many different things. Any of the programs, I call them the big box programs, you know, the big box programs. Um, when I was younger, my older sister had a problem also um that she was having a hard time conquering. And so we tried things together like the cottage cheese and grapefruit diet. Um you know, the eggs, all these, you know, eat eat eggs for protein and nothing else, um, rice crackers.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

There was so many over the years. Because Christine, you're in your 60s, right? We're both in our 60s.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, I'll be 69 this year. Wow, Christine will be 69 this year.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Right. Goals, goals, Christine. Yeah. Um, so you know, and and I you I remember, I mean, in and if anyone who's watching, you're you're in this kind of age bracket, over the years, you've been through, you've seen all the trends, right? And there was the Ducan, the South Beach, the, as you said, the cabbage, the cottage cheese, the more extra, then there's the neutral systems and eat the bars and the shakes and all that. And then, then, which I think is such a good point that you brought up as well, because you're very smart woman, extremely, you know, wise. And so then you even tried more of the Mediterranean thing, right? Of okay, I'm just going to do, you know, Mediterranean, which is, I think, an important distinction because and you know this, Christine, that so many women try that. And it's a great step in the right direction because at least you're far healthier than being on a standard American diet or a diet with ultra-processed foods or tons of saturated fat, but it didn't really move the needle. So at what point did you realize? Was it when you first kind of started working with me? I'm just curious at what point you thought, oh, this isn't even just about what I eat. This is something completely different.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, it was it was when I started working with you. Um, I would say three weeks into the program, I was like, oh, catching myself the way I was speaking about myself and to myself. Um, all the years that I had restricted my calories and eaten bars that I would look at the label and I knew and I was looking at them thinking, why am I eating this stuff? Um, realizing that this chronic stress that I was under basically led to I'd had a stroke when I was 59. And I just thought it's so much more than just a diet. It's it's your mind, it's your body, it's your spirit, it's integrating yourself. It is believing in yourself, it is speaking kindly to yourself, it is having camaraderie with other women, it's quiet time, it's reflection, it's um okay to take a break. You don't have to go 25 25 miles a minute every single day. It it was just so much more than what I was putting in my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

And what would you say was some of the things? That we started doing that made the biggest difference to you?

SPEAKER_00 22:07

There were a lot. I would say speaking kindly to yourself, being aware of the words you use, meditating and reflecting, doing a gentle yoga and journaling. I keep a gratitude journal where I start my day off every day now with at least three things that I'm grateful for. Because when I did all those things, in addition to what I was eating and the exercise, which I started out very slowly with, when I do all those things every day, I just feel a sort of a calm come over me. And I and I, that's what was happening when we were working. I thought, oh, I'm coming from a whole different place than I came before. And everything seems to be making more sense. And I it a light bulb really went off for me when I started doing all those things together. It seems like a lot, but you can do all of those things in less than 10 minutes a day if that's all the time you have, right? What we do. That's what we do. Wow, what a difference 10 minutes a day makes on your mind, body, and how you feel, your spirit.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah. And also, Christine, you know, from having really coached you and got to know you very, very well, particularly in those early weeks, I had the honor of really supporting you in that way. There was there were a few sort of moments when you really had some big breakthroughs. And for use, those were they were mindset seems almost like too small a word, doesn't it? It were like it was like these deep psychological breakthroughs that were just like, I remember so well, and I do remind you sometimes of this, because it was just something that will always stay in my mind of you were in so much pain, physical pain. And it was probably, I don't know, it got to be about four, five, maybe six weeks in. And I remember it was you had been working on this affirmation that you had been telling yourself for years and years and years that you were in a cage, that there was nothing you could do, that you were locked in. You had told yourself this narrative, right? And this story, and it was locking you further into the it was creating your reality, actually. And then you just had this breakthrough, and it's just like you made a decision, which is what I always say to ladies, is like you make a decision to believe something, and then you need to believe it before it's even evident. That is the work that you did before that call that we had. And ladies, for those of you who are watching, this is really the deeper work that we do. It's like you understand what your belief systems are. We start shining a spotlight. Christine started looking. Oh my gosh, this is the story, this is the narrative, these are my beliefs. Once you're aware of them, then you can begin questioning them. And so Christine started having the support to go, wait a minute, uh, is that actually true? Then in learning to do that process, Christine, what you did was you made a decision. This is what I am going to believe. And even if it's not evidence in reality or in my body yet, this is what I notice that everyone I'm using the word choosing, this is what I am choosing to believe. And this changed everything for you, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Yes, it was absolutely, it was a cage of pain. And I because I was in pain, but it was a cage that I couldn't break out of. And then just one day I had a what I call my little epiphany, but it was a major epiphany, and I thought, no, and I literally could feel the cage just release because I chose to live a more um loving, productive, kind, compassionate life for myself and for the people around me. And I just made that decision that I was no longer no longer in a cage of pain. I was now in full, like I just I would say that I feel fabulous. I don't know if you remember, but I started out by saying a very simple, like a mantra or a saying that you had asked us to come up with, and it was like, I'm, I am, I am stronger. And then it was, I am strong. And then the last reiteration of that was I am strength. That's what I am. I am strength. And then that pain was gone.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Okay, we need to actually take a moment. Beautiful Christine, because just before this call, I was going to say my next question was going to be changes in your body, and we'll we'll get to that in a second, because I know everyone loves to hear and is probably this is really a big part of your story, the actual physical changes. But okay, for those of you who are watching, Christine said that she could barely walk to the end of her short driveway before she came on as my guest. We had a couple of minutes in the waiting room, and Christine said, I I've literally just come back from an insanely hard workout, right? She is to I mean, like she burns 600 calories. This workout that honestly, most 30-year-olds honestly would have a hard time doing the workout that Christine has just come back from at the age of 69 and just feeling empowered and fantastic. And she said, I feel so good. So talk about inflammation. This is Christine who could barely get up off a yoga mat without saying, I need some help from my husband. So what other changes? I just wanted to call that out because that Christine said the timing is perfect because literally, I and I'm like, oh, yesterday. I need to I need to get out and start. I I got to do my workout after this. But Christine, what other, very, very briefly, what other changes did did you notice in your body?

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Physically? Um, yes, that workout that I did yesterday, my wonderful gym that I go to had their 10-year celebration, and we did a really tough workout, something I haven't done in more than 30 years. So I am lifting heavy now, I have endurance, I have stamina, I trained to hike the Grand Canyon um two years ago now. Um and I am trying to think of what else I'm gonna do. Um, the inflammation was gone, the joints are no longer painful. I can get my rings on and off, I can get out of bed standing up, I can just jump out of bed where before I was bent over at a 90-degree angle, and I would take one stair at a time. And one of the breakthroughs with my body was one day I just realized I was running down the stairs, and I hadn't done that in about 10 years. Um, so I feel stronger, I feel um more uh fit, my clothes obviously fit better. Um, I didn't. What about the belly fat piece since this is what I opened with? Yes, as long as that. Besides the 72 pounds that I lost, I lost 17 and a half inches off my waist.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah. Not so it hasn't come back, ladies. So this is not through an extreme diet. This is a dietary pattern. This is all the things that that Christine's doing. But it, I mean, that's that's a pretty major accomplishment to to to do that without an extreme diet. Um, so that is just just so beautiful. And what would you say? We'll just finish here, is you know, you're such a kind, compassionate woman, and you've become, in a way, a teacher. Because now, Christine, that's one of the things that she feels so motivated to do is to really communicate with with everybody about how you can change your life in such a radical way, not just the physical piece, but in every I mean, you you are you typify what it looks like to age powerfully, honestly. Um, so what would you say to a woman who feels stuck in her body right now?

SPEAKER_00 30:01

I would say I completely understand what you're going through. And it's not, it's not a quick fix. It is a it is a choice you make to go on this beautiful journey that is going to step by step, one small deposit to into your own life at a time, where you will eventually break out of any cage, the cage of pain that you're in. I mean, it's just a I can't say enough what the program did for me and how it's my life is right now. And I would say that um you can be pain-free or much reduced. Everybody's different, everybody moves at a different pace, but this is a way there is hope, always hope here. And I would say take a chance on yourself to do this for yourself because you can become this whole new person. I mean, I still have to pinch myself because I can't believe that this is my life now. And it's been five years. So, I mean, it didn't happen in three months. It took a little bit of time, but I will tell you, it was worth every single step because I got my life back and more. I have more things I want to do now than I ever imagined that I could do when I was decades younger.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Wow, isn't that incredible? And you've put in the work, and I think you just just finishing with this, you said such an important point. You said, you know, it doesn't happen overnight. And and things that happen overnight just don't stick. And and and we can talk about that with pretty much anything. And so it is this deep integration that you're working on on all those three levels, isn't it? It's the it's the nervous system, it's the identity, it's the belief work, it's all of those things. And and all of them, it's so worth it when and for those of you watching, I know we all want a quick, we we want relief from feeling stuck in our body and we want relief. It doesn't have to take forever. It you know, we get things done relatively quickly, we can do it in you know, four to six months. But it's I think it's also very important to understand that you when you do things properly and slowly, then your body and your nervous system aren't gonna rebel. If you do things too quickly, then it's going to be back to that, like, oh, I'm freaking out. And your body, there's all these different things about set points metabolically, there are. So you've got to kind of move slowly in order to have an experience like Christine is, and not be one of those people who are victim to the diet industry or the programs that just get you to do this really quick fix, and then you know, that they're reliant on you just keeping repeating that same mistake over and over. So it has to be done this way. You have to deal with the problem underneath the problem. And the problem underneath the problem is the identity, it's the psychology, it's the nervous system regulation, and then it is having this really, you know, beautiful strategy uh or strategies, I should say, plural. Christine, thank you for coming on. You always inspire me. It's such a joy to work with you and have worked with you and look at you and go, oh my gosh, goals. Like literally, I'm like, I'm gonna go and do my workout now because Christine did hers. And you are now going around in your life inspiring everybody when you're in that gym with women who are 30, 40 years younger than you, you know, there are people looking at you going, oh my gosh. So thank you for being an inspiration, for being the poster child of what it can look like to age powerfully. Sending you so much love and light as we close today. And if you're listening to this and thinking, I feel really stuck, I can't quite navigate this on my own, please know that you don't have to. I offer a complimentary session that I call a breakthrough session. It's a space for us to gently look at what's going on, get some clarity, and help you find your next step forward. You can learn more and book your complimentary call at SophieUliano.com forward slash podcast. Thank you for being here with me today. And if this episode supported you, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. And I'll see you next time for another cup of tea with Sophie.