Fitness Business Insights with Matt Robinson
Fitness Business Insights with Matt Robinson is your weekly dose of strategies, systems, and success stories for Personal Trainers, Coaches, and Gym Owners. Each episode dives into topics like fitness marketing, client acquisition, gym floor systems, client retention, and lead generation — giving you practical tools to grow a thriving fitness business you love.
Fitness Business Insights with Matt Robinson
Paul Mutlow Interview
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Paul phoned the course provider to ask if he was too old to become a personal trainer. He was in his late thirties at the time.
He's now 51, working full time as a PT, with a target market of 40 plus who specifically want someone with a bit of life experience. The thing he thought was a problem turned out to be the whole point.
Paul's also been a listener of this show since before the pandemic, so it was good to get him on the other side of it for a change.
What makes his story worth hearing is that he's built this with zero footfall. No gym floor, no passing trade, nobody walking past him on their way to the treadmill. Everything has had to be created from nothing in a local area.
In this episode:
- Going from a finance career in the city to full time PT, and the two things that nearly stopped him
- Why his age is now one of the biggest reasons his clients choose him
- How he went from the messy middle of not really knowing what he offered, to exercise therapy and a genuinely prescriptive service
- The trial offer we built together, how it's evolved from four sessions at £29 to three at £75, and why it still converts into packages of £200 a month and up
- What his three session structure actually looks like, including the whiteboard session that does most of the selling for him
- Getting clients from local Facebook groups with a proper rotation system rather than posting when he feels like it
- Six new clients in six weeks, in August, which is not supposed to be the good month
- Why he got a coach early rather than waiting until he'd struggled for three years
- The second pillar he's building around youth speed and strength work, and why it doesn't have to be online coaching
Paul's honest about the wobbles too. Worth a listen if you're building something without a gym floor underneath you.
Find Paul on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pmfitness74/
Book a Business Breakthrough Call: https://mattrobinsoncoaching.com/speak-with-matt
Welcome back to the Fitness Business Insights podcast with me, your host, Matt Robinson, where it is my job to help you build a high profit, low stress fitness business. And today I've got a special episode for you because I've got a guest on who is someone that I've worked with for a while now. His name is Paul Mutlow. And Paul has very kindly come on the show to share a slightly different story of how he got into the industry, a career change, creating leads when he's got zero footfall, how he's built an offer that now converts into clients, and all the things that he's learned along the way. So we even go into things like how he's niching himself, how he's making himself stand out from other PTs, what he's done in his time already in terms of his own education and development, why on earth he decided to work with someone like me. We go off in lots of different directions. So this is a really insightful episode. I think it's one that you should maybe go and listen to at least a couple of times because you're going to take a few different things from it each time you listen to it. And Paul was very uh generous with his time and his insights and how much he was willing to share with us. So have a listen. And then if you want to connect with Paul at any point, he mentions at the end how you can do that as well. So sit back, relax, enjoy the show. Paul, welcome to the show, mate.
SPEAKER_01How are you doing? Yeah, I'm mad. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for welcoming me on. So uh yeah, really looking looking forward to uh speaking to you and um my journey so far.
SPEAKER_00Bit of a full circle moment, this really, isn't it? Because you you've actually been a long time listener of the show. So you've been on the other side of the podcast, and now here you are in the hot seat, so to speak. Yeah, in the hot seat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and on quite a thing. So I was listening to you before the pandemic with your with your colleague and I and I I got really into your podcasts and you sharing tips uh for PTs, things like this, and then I I remember reaching out to I think it was after the pandemic. Uh yeah, so it'll work to work well on that. It was good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And just to give the listeners a bit of context, Paul, um you've recently gone full-time with your PT business. Just give people a little bit of an idea as to what you've been doing up until this point, because it's nice for people to hear different stories from different backgrounds. You're not just uh a 21-year-old that's qualified and then gone straight into a gym. You've got some life experience, you've got family, you've got responsibilities, you're coming, you're coming into this a little bit later in life, which is now becoming more common. So give give the give the listeners a bit of an insight. What what's what's it been like for you up until this point?
SPEAKER_01Yes, but I was I was always active, I was always an active person growing up primary school, secondary school, obviously, really into football is is most most boys or guys are. I reached quite good levels, I got to sort of hot gear county standard, and I always say to my boys now there's that defining moment where you think you were good, but then you play the next level, and you're like, wow, okay, that's another level. And I reached that, so I was lucky enough to play against Arsenal. Arsenal, I knew I was about 13, they're trying to just another level. So I think that gave me at the age of 13, 14, I think was quite mature at that age. That gave me that mindset to say, actually, there there's more to this than we being the show. And that's when I I think my passion started around health and fitness and and and just just looking at how to get stronger, get quicker. At maybe the age of 14 or 15, as I say, trying to get quicker in the garden or remember doing sprints myself, because back then, back in the that was probably the late 80s, showing my age here, there was nothing really around. You had to remember there was no internet, there was all there were is is light rays, so you'd actually go to the library and and get out a book. So yeah, I think that's where my my passion to help fitness began. And then it took a bit about the backseat, actually. So when I went to university, I did a business course, did that for three or four years. I became a little bit unfair, if I'm honest. And then things I graduated, I I I got a job in City, and then they had back in the they had like gym memberships. So I remember joining the gym in London, and that's that's when my passion reignited, and I started to get trending with a few personal training. So even at the age of 22, 23, I was going down that corporate road, and I thought that's the road I wanted to go down. And I did enjoy sort of five minutes, operational sort of background. But I also had a passion for helping kids because I, as I say, I was I was always speaking to the traders in the gym, asking what they were doing, why they were doing it, had a passion. But I had a passion about anatomy and physiology as well, how how the body how the body works. So that as I say just reignited my my passion, and then I I just I I kind of changed gyms around the years, and then I think I got to about the age of 35, 36, and then I remember this advertisement in in my local gym saying, weekend courses if you want to become a coach, a personal trader. And then I was like, I want to do that, I want to do that. And I remember phoning the divorce provider, and I was a little bit conscious about my age, because I think at that time I was around yeah, sort of mid in 30s, late, late 30s, and I remember speaking to the course trainer saying, Look, am I too old? And she said, No, not at all. A lot of people make these decisions a little bit later on, maybe to change direction, change path, or we can maybe go to part-time and see how things work. And I think that's kind of my journey, man. So through from leaving university and and getting a few jobs along the way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And it I I was gonna ask you like why did you want to get into PT? But it sounds very much like it was passion-driven, really. It was it was that side of things. Was there anything else that you thought being a PT, being a coach might give you that that maybe previous jobs haven't given you or anything like that? Was there a different a different like lifestyle component or anything like that at all? What what else sort of stood out for you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, my partner, yeah, she's she's a yoga teacher, so I've lived with her over the years, and then I saw how passionate she was for helping people, either doing group classes or or doing one-to-one classes. And I looked at that and I thought, actually, she she's really had group people, people come into her. And I used to see them coming into sessions, and maybe they'd be a little bit deflated. And then after the session, I'd see them walking out, and they'd have a smile on their face. So I think that definitely made me think about the difference between you you could see something tangible. Does that make sense? You could see you could see that you you've actually benefited someone some of the life, and I and I think being being a coach, or there's a lot more to it than just the program. I mean a lot of people say that the program is is isn't not that important. It's it's a lot of it is about how you have a connection with someone, how you can motivate someone, how you can potentially be their friend as well, in in in times of in in times of someone maybe suffering in their life, or so there's a lot to it, and there's there's definitely a lot to it. And I think that's why yeah, that that's why I I was intrigued. I was intrigued with potentially it was just something totally different, rather than living at a spreadsheet, it was actually looking at a human being and helping helping uh I don't know someone to get better in their life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And I imagine that when when you first started looking at potentially becoming a PT and going down that route, I know that obviously there's a lot of excitement, there's a lot of like energy and enthusiasm, but there's also that other side of your brain that's filled with like doubt and questioning yourself and worries and concerns. What what things do you think stood out for you as being like almost those little blocks that you know they might have even stopped you picking up the phone and and inquiring about the course in the first place? Um, had you listened to those things, like what what are the worries, what are the common things that have bubbled up for you over your time of of sort of reaching this point? Well, in terms of maybe transitioning to a a person trained in that or yeah, making that making that jump, making that career change, going from being employed to self-employed, going from this is my identity as the guy that works in the city versus I am now Paul the PT. And what what what are the things that for you are like the the biggest concerns? Because we've all got them when we start a business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so biggest concerns for me is is is financial. So when you're working for somebody else, remember my mind's been conditioned for working for companies for for many years, and I've enjoyed my experience. It's been good. I've learned a lot along the way. And and thank you to you know giving me those opportunities. But you're used to you're used to that that paycheck at the end of the month. So regardless uh of whether you you lose some work or or you take some more work on, you're gonna get that that same paycheck every year unless maybe you're lucky enough to get uh an end of pay buzz or or so you kind of know where you are. And I think that's that's the biggest insecurity when you you transition potentially to self-employed, but you you haven't got the guaranteed guaranteed paycheck each each month. So I think that that's the biggest concern, especially when you've got a mortgage, you've got children. That that's the biggest that is the biggest concern. I mean, and like I say, other other concerns to me as well, uh and you get these conversations a lot in the industry, is uh hearsal trainers it's it's you you feel you feel the personal trainers if you go to a gym, a commercial gym, a lot of them are quite young. And and there was all that there's always that insecurity for me to say I'm uh approaching 40 years old, but if is that the right thing to do, is that the right career path to go down because I'm I'm nearly middle age. So I I had these insecurities in my head to say, but then what I had learned along the way is well it's it's how you market yourself, how how you niche yourself. So at first like anything, you qualify as as a as a as a basic level three, and then if if you want to, then you can specialise more in into into other areas, which which I've done. And I think that's probably giving me more security in my mind. So I don't feel so insecure anymore. Actually, I've got more to offer, I'm all stilled, and I and I think things just work out for themselves. If you're passionate and you're driven, that that niche starts to appear in it and it just starts to formulate itself as long as you put the hardware work in. So yeah, so just to recap, so number one, it it was the financial insecurity 100%, because you need to pay your bills. And number two, it was that insecurity of actually I'm reaching 40 years old. I look at a lot of personal trainers in commercial gyms and they're quite young. But then also, interestingly, I've had a lot of conversations with my target market, 40 plus. But a lot of this target market don't really want to maybe have uh the personal trainer who's quite young because they really want someone who's got all life experience, and I'm not knocking the younger personal trainer, they've got their place and they're and they're breaking what they do. Again, this has given me confidence as well, because actually there are people out there that that want maybe someone their own age a little bit older to understand the experiences in life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It's funny being because I've been in the industry so long now, I was that 21-year-old trainer that used to look at some of the we had some PTs in our gym that were maybe 35, 14, and I used to look at them and think, oh God, like they're dinosaurs. I'm now I'm now that age myself, I'm 36. And I look back, I look back at 21-year-old Matt and go, Well, he was clueless and and didn't even have you know the ability to really say understand his clients fully, or actually put himself in their shoes in the same way that I could do now. And I think you're right, there's there's room for both, isn't there? You know, 21-year-old Matt had all the energy, all the enthusiasm, all that sort of stuff, you know. Could you you you sort of winning on the front of your your youth and your vibrance is what attracts people and it gets them excited to be around you. I think that was something that I relied on a lot when I was younger. Now, when you're a bit bit older and a bit a bit wiser and there's other things going on, like you say, you've found your lane, you found who you want to work with, you found who you can serve. Um, and some of those people don't want that type of trainer. You know, they don't want to come in with someone that's bouncing around the room and bubbly and energetic. They want someone that understands I've had a bit of a shit day, can we just take it easy today? And can we can we just accept that I've then got to go home and make tea for two kids and blah blah blah, you know, not not not all the all the stuff that I used to expect people to do when I assumed we had nothing else going on in the lives. Uh so yeah, there's there's room for all of those different types of coaches in the industry.
SPEAKER_01And I think as well, Matt, when you get when you get to my age, well 51, I'm not I'm you know, I'm fairly fit for for my age, you know, I'm on saying cages, or I'm fairly trin, I'm not absolutely rent, but it's just shown that my type of big market, similar age to me, or a little bit older, you can, if you're consistent, you you can still still maintain that fitness. Doesn't matter what age you are. And I think that's that's that's a good thing as well. But it's not all about aesthetics there's a there's a lot more to it than that. That's just an example as well of that if you're yeah, if you're consistent in your lifestyle, a little bit of training, fairly consistent nutrition, you you can you don't you don't have to be that typical office worker that I've seen over the years bent over in a lot of pain. You can you you can you can you can outdo that, you can get that quality of life back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And you've mentioned Paul that you've you've sort of found a target audience now, you have niche down a bit, give the listeners a bit of context as to how you tend to market yourself, who you tend to work with, and maybe even touch on some of those extra qualifications and that that you've been and got. Because again, it's nice for the listeners to get an understanding of the different directions that you can go, because I think the the direction you've gone in some ways, people will get it. Um, but one of the qualifications in particular that you've been and got that you're you use a lot now, you use it every day, not really something a lot of PTs go and do. Um, so give us a bit of an insight into your specialities and how you're now approaching PT. You're just peeding math again out.
SPEAKER_01So I yes the question I I qualified in 2017, and let's just say I'd had the odd client here and there at weekends and things like that, just to just to keep keep you going. But I was I was in this this this messy stage, I call it messy middle, I think you you you took you call your marketing structures around us messy middle. I was in the messy middle with Pt. Where I didn't know where I was. I I I I would have people coming in and we would just do we would do a workout, but it was it was it was just to the PT book. There wasn't really any I don't think there was much I just thought there could be a little bit more star they could just be a little bit more improved. I was looking for just a little just a little bit more improvement around delivering the sessions bespoking them a little bit more to the car I was still I was still a little bit confused. Yeah. Thanks to your oddcast. I I listened to your podcast and I remember you had DTS on there and uh Ben McDonald's and you interviewed him. And yeah, great questions by you, but but Ben just came out with this information, and I just thought resonates so well with me. So their their tagline was longevity of life and paint tree living. And I said, that's what I've been searching for, that's exactly what I've been searching for, longevity of life and paint tree living. After your podcast, I remember uh reaching out to you, and then you put me in touch with Ben. Yep. And then I contacted DTS and then I did their DTS level one qualification. I I still think they do it online, and for any personal trainers out there, they look into that next next level. Do they? Yes. I mean it will change it will change your your your way of thinking. Uh-huh. And it will it will craft it will craft you in ways that you've never never thought about before. So I did this course, and it gives you a very good sort of uh assessment of how you can bring a client in and assess them from head to toe. And it's all based around mobility and stability and seeking opportunities. So that's where it started. And then I I had success with this model, amazing model. And but then it got to a stage again where I was just thinking, I'm seeing things with kinds, but maybe DTS was brilliant, but maybe there's certain things that I need to understand a little bit further and dig into it a little bit further. I think that's fully just how my mindset works. So I I I did a bit of homework and I came, I I did this this this course came came into my inbox and it was called exercise therapy. So if you look at if you if you look at DTS, the way they trained was they were training more about the uh the mover assessment, so you're looking more external. So you know, is one shoulder higher than the other? Is your head and had you got tight hips, etc.? But this exercise therapy system goes one level below. So this is more about sort of functional assessments. So this is looking about how your muscles are firing internally. So these are the things you can't see. Yep. This is very much a muscle uh testing assessment. So an example example is what we call the empty can, you might just test someone's shoulder functionality, and I like press down on their shoulder. And and if it's not firing correctly, you will find a weakness, their shoulder, their arm will just come down. And then we have to investigate why they do weakness. Um and just to cut on sure, this exercise therapy system is is once once you've found the weakness, you would do a modifier or modifier, they call near. And if you could make that shoulder stronger, you kind of know what's wrong with it. So, an example is for a lot of people with shoulder weakness, they they might have an instability in their own sea job. So, what you wouldn't simply do without kind of too technical, you have their claw bone and their top of their shoulder blade together, and you retest their shoulder, and generally that comes back a lot stronger. And that might be called the lot of people might have might have might have bench pressed a lot, and it's caused a bit of instability in their own sea job, which is called shoulder pain. So this is this is the next level I wanted, and then you follow what is corrected going down uh this instability, the AC join, and then it it and then it the outcomes are brilliant with clients, their shoulder pains go. There's a lot of isometrics based around the shoulders. So this is this is your part of one who was arguing wanted the shoulder, but they've got the hitch, you've got the angles, you've got the shoulder blades themselves, you've got the back, low back pain. So there there's different different routes, different parts of the body. So this this is this is the next level. So they call this the exercise therapist. So you've got you've got your your your personal trainer, and then I I see it as you've got your exercise therapist, which sits above that, and then you've got your physiotherapist, which which is is is is sacred to exercise therapy. But it's uh it's a really it's a really good system. As I say, it gets people out of pain, it and it also exercise. service system as well also predicts maybe future injuries as well which is really good so you might find that maybe weakness in their ankles and and and you would pinpoint about that weakness before it becomes why they're painful or or they get an injury so it's a really good it's a really good next level of service for for that client.
SPEAKER_00Yeah so you can bring them in with sort of the main service still being personal training as the key title of what you do but then when they start to see some of this stuff that you're able to do if they've had a PT before the first thing they're thinking is well my old PT never did any of this and if they've never had a PT before they're probably thinking I thought we were going to do burpees and star jumps this is far better. And your ability to tailor your approach for them regarding exercise and functional movement and stuff is like next level and and I suppose it's just nice for our listeners to hear a slightly different take on it and you've not just gone down the route of going you know longevity and pain free living and then there's not really anything to back it up. I think a lot of people do that. They make these claims about their niche I am this expert and then it's like yeah but how are you going to back that up in terms of how has your process of what you take clients through changed and evolved to actually make that true what are you doing that's different than Joe Block's PT down the street that makes that really fundamentally different I think it's sometimes it's just too easy just to pick a niche based on a tagline and then there's not really anything to back it up. And even you yourself you started with one methodology and then have gone no now I'm using a different methodology to take me even further down that that path.
SPEAKER_01I still use DTS's approach but I use that as is the is the second level now sort of first level is the functional assessment and the second level is the is the external movement assessment. But what you find a lot of times is if you did the movement assessment first and you might find example is their internal rotation of their shoulders is restricted in the movement assessment. If you pull that back and go down to the functional assessment and you might find some instability in their shoulder and you correct that instability in their shoulder joint actually by default their internal range of motion will get better anyway. So normally once you once you've addressed the the functional movement and you've got them stronger and where they need to get stronger then the movement generally takes care of itself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah brilliant so you're now at a point where you're doing this full time so you're now working with clients you're building yourself a business around personal training and sort of going after this specific niche this specific target market give us a little bit of an insight again because the listeners always love to know this side of things is what what are you doing to get clients Paul? What's working for you at the moment?
SPEAKER_01What have you built your sort of client attraction system around give us some insights into that well I have to quit on you again about thanks to you so when I first started as I say there was no I had no system in place I was starting to get the knowledge or start bit of knowledge and you know we're more confident as a as a personal trainer but I'd get the a random kind of lead here or there who might be what was just it was a stage but it wasn't it wasn't regular and so then I reached out to you and then we we worked on something called an offer which I imagine a lot of your viewers would would would understand. So it's just my understanding is it is a bit like that group on offer so you you you work out a discounted offer so for me I I first started with a four session trial well I think it was around £29 so that was amazing value. Yeah but this trial this trial wasn't random it was planned it was structured so session one would be about abstract fine emissions you'd sit down on the time and and you would go through certain questions like what's what's your injury history what's your goals what's your internal motivation and you'd be asking why why why you'd be trying to get deep into why they want to change are you still sitting on a fence for instance uh what would you feel like in a year's time if you got those results just just trying to look for for clues and then so that that would kind of take take take take uh if if the first session to close and then and then the second session would would me be more about the the moving assessment because at the time I wasn't doing the exercise therapy and then session three and four would would just be showcasing what I could do as a personal training. So just showing them uh you know the squat clinic you'll be a hinge clinic things like that just showing those skills and then the last session session four I call it a whiteboard session so I present back to the potential client what I've seen in the assessments and the opportunities so you wouldn't just you would yeah you you would pinpoint the opportunities and that's where like you give that descriptive service. So as a personal trainer I could help you in these areas so example it's their resting heart rate might be at 90. So you'd explain to them the the reasons that potentially why we need to get that resting heart rate down because it's working doubly it's hard and because you want a bit more longevity life and you could explain ways as a personal trainer how you could reduce that resting heart rate. So you're just trying to give them that prescriptive service just just like a a doctor would. Yep. And I and I feel that that whiteboard session kind of sells itself because there's there's it's there's style behind it there's that personalized service behind it. And then that's when you that's when you then go into your for me that's when you go into your packages to say based on this whiteboard session there's quite a lot of things going on and I suggest coming to see me twice a week. If someone is is is it's very good and they haven't got so much going on maybe maybe once a week. So that's that's where that's that's what I started to do and that was working well. Recently transitioning more into board card personal trainer because I've left my I've left my day job this is where then Matt you introduced me to Facebook group advertising which has worked well but again what I've learned is number one you've got to be really consistent with the Facebook group postings and number two you've got to have a system in base what you need to do first is just work out what groups you want to post to so within my local area I've got five groups actually now what trying to post to so I live in I live in St Albans but they're surrounding sort of villages and other towns and then every most your viewers will know this but but every group has got their own rules and regulations around what what day you can post and normally you can post once a week so that's where I started having this tracking system in place where I'd say on a Monday I could post an exbru on a Thursday I could post brew and you rotate those those templates I don't know if you want me to go a little bit more into those templates mate don't be giving away my secrets pal but they're there is they're reserved for the likes of yourself it works pretty well to back max for templates and like anything if there's got to be a strategy in place there's got you you you can't just do it off the wind you there's got to be a strategy in place and you've got to put pen to paper and and and spend some time crafting out your message and what you're gonna say I think if you you've got to treat it treat it like a real business like that says that if you're just disorganized and you don't know where you posted and you and you post something to that group and then two days later you do it something random it's not going to work.
SPEAKER_00You have to have assisting involved so I've implemented that and that's that's working quite well if I'm being obvious so I've got I've got the Google business page I've got I've got the the the offer which count you count to a 3D session for yeah you've and you've evolved that over time I think you always gonna mention that you've actually changed your offer over time because although the old one converted well you've always done really well on conversions haven't you with your offer always been very very high in fact for a long long time it was just a hundred percent wasn't it it just converted every time despite the cheap price but then over time we looked at it and thought we need to increase the price you came to me and said I think I can do this in three sessions instead of four because people were actually reaching the point by session three where they were ready to sign up the fourth session became a bit pointless. So it has evolved over time hasn't it just give us a little snapshot as to what like the newest version of it looks like how how many sessions what you're charging that that that'll do us on that level.
SPEAKER_01Yeah so to recap when I first started it was four sessions in 29 pound I I came to you I think it was a couple of years ago to say Matt I'm kind of getting this idea of people coming in but they just like get started and I think four sessions is too much. So we tweaked it down to three sessions but then we upped the price to 75 pound so I think you've mentioned just before in your podcasts that you play around with this price depending on whether you are more people coming in as leads or you want less people. Yeah even we've increased yeah because I didn't want so many people coming in but I've I've kept it at that level because now I've got the exercise therapy piece you don't want to probably sell yourself too too cheap. So no it's working well again session one is that kind of mission but I do the functional assessment exercise therapy all within one session. Session two is actually I'll do a health screen now just the basic house screen blood pressure body fat etc things like that and then I'll do the movement assessment and then session three is the whiteboard session and then after the whiteboard session I'll say to them on the opportunities and I'll say out of all these opportunities you've got what would you like to go through now so we might do a hip hinge finite starting from the floor and then working our way up so we're hinging correctly we might do a squat finite just depending on whether this came up in the assessment or we might tackle their hip weakness and we get them correctives around the hip weakness etc etc so they can go out of that session through thinking actually Paul's Paul sort of me here and this this just gives me some insight into what he could do potentially in three months time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah and despite despite that just just to make this point as well because again I know it's a a bit of an objection people have is that you're selling this at £75 but your service after is full price isn't it so anyone that comes to you now as a new client even on your sort of minimum package for PT they're paying more than £200 a month aren't they? This isn't you selling a cheap offer and then cheap personal training on the back end this is you just sort of giving people the opportunity you're sort of taking the risk away you're saying give me a chance let me show you what I can do I need you to put a little bit of skin in the game to show me that you're serious because 75 quid is is enough to make people think but not enough to put people off it's not too risky. And then off the back of that even though they've only paid essentially sort of half your hourly rate per session coming into this more than happy to go and pay your full packages having seen what they've seen you're not you're not trying to sell them from zero straight into you know minimum package of over 200 pounds a month the converg the conversion element is still there and it's converting into something that isn't cheap.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah exactly I think what I found now is now I I'm getting more leads and and and and I'm I'm doing more trials it's I'm starting to understand well there's there's more people coming through the door the conversion rate is going down slightly not because I've got more volumes so before I might have six a year six six rate a year maybe because I didn't really need that many but now I need more yeah I'm just I'm just trying to understand it is it's interesting actually I'm trying to understand human psychology around sort of sales and etc so I'm just trying to understand that and I think that's exciting as well because when you when you've got your own business it's not just about delivering the sessions it's everything else you did as well the marketing the lead generation the administration it's you're doing everything so it is it's it's quite real wow but it's exciting as well yeah yeah I want to come back to you mentioned that you know earl early on you made the decision to reach out to me I'm just interested to know why did you get a coach?
SPEAKER_00Why did you decide that that was necessary? Because not a lot of people do that that early on they wait they might wait until they've sort of screwed it up for two three years. But you you were quite early you did that fairly you seemed quite switched on and like no no I need I need help here. Like what why did you get a coach?
SPEAKER_01Why can I get a coach? I think because ultimately I was passionate in my project and I can see that I wasn't really getting many leads. So I had I had the Google business page but I was just randomly sort of posting things on social media I was I was a little bit insecure as I said with my age things like this and I just needed and I listened to your podcast and you resonated with me the the way you were saying things and just everything resonated with me and I I just wanted to I just wanted to get back to it what what I what I wanted to do. I wanted to generate more leads I I wanted to yeah just be be more successful and when I reached out to you I don't even you kind of did this presentation to me to say this how I could help you and it yeah it really it really resonated with me and I and I just thought give this a go. I also think as well again with Toastmasters I've been going there for seven eight years now and they're very much into being mentors and I've been mentor myself with junior Toastmasters coming in and I think for anyone that I think everyone needs needs a mentor. I think anyone needs a mentor if they they can have one because why wouldn't you learn from someone who's especially who's dug the trenches themselves like you have you know that you know the forward is you you know everything you know what works you know that what doesn't work and why wouldn't you reach out to someone that's got all that experience and they can tell you what can again done what's potentially going to work for you and what's not going to work for you. And I think that's where your USP is you're you're very much like no let's let's do this let's concentrate on this let's be consistent on this and and it and it's worked worked really well especially especially around the the offer yes I think the biggest thing that as well is is like you say there's lots of people out there that waste time not just in PT but in wholesales you're wasting time talking to people but then that that person might just disappear and you might have ended up spending five six hours in conversations with them whether that's on email whether that's on Facebook so why would you just put a trial offer in front of them at a discounted price to say okay I'll spoke for a couple of minutes is mine file commit to it and then you know whether they're serious or not.
SPEAKER_00Yeah absolutely and as you've mentioned a couple of times the biggest problem we were trying to solve with with your business and it's the same with a lot of fitness businesses in honesty in all honesty but it was that lead generation piece wasn't it because you've got zero footfall you've got no footfall so we're having to create that from nowhere aren't we so that's why it was quite a a unique situation at the time in that we've not got thousands of people walking around on the gym floor trying to get in shape or anything like that. We're literally trying to bring people to you from the local area we don't need to be world famous on social media or anything like that. We need the local people to know who you are what you do and what sort of results you get and that's what we're focused on haven't we that's what we've that's what we've based everything around is let's make sure that local people know who to come to if they want to if they want to get help in these specific ways.
SPEAKER_01Yeah definitely I mean as I as I said to you all the time when I when I speak to you or it was your messaging with your podcasts and stuff as well as big in the sense of you would obviously address the typical sort of PT on the gym floor but you'd also open that up to sort of personal trainers working by themselves in in a studio by themselves or or or working from from home in in a in an office studio or or something like that sort of PT studio. So it was it was it was good that you would you would kind of think of of the whole spectrum well not not just a typical PC in the gym which is which helped me as well.
SPEAKER_00What would you say Paul now that now that you've done this for a while now that you've got to the point where you're like fully self-employed you you're running this as a business what would you say to people that were maybe in the shoes that you were a while ago that maybe were doubtful that maybe were uncertain um that maybe didn't quite back themselves to make this work like what what can you pass down now to people coming through that maybe need that that little bit of inspiration that little bit of motivation but not from someone like me that shares this stuff all the time from from someone different a different voice what what can you tell them that they might need to hear today just to sort of inspire them to keep going and stick at it I I I I would say you've got to look at your yourself and quest question yourself.
SPEAKER_01So if you want it to be a coach first of all you have to say am I passionate about being a coach so when I when I say passionate about any discipline if you want to be a football player are you in the other now practicing if you're not practicing against the wall you're probably not going to be a football player or replace that mission all day because there's other kids out there playing football. So what I want to say number one are you passionate about what you do if you are passionate about being a fitness coach or a trainer you would start to read things you'd start to look at courses I know courses cost money but you would find ways of of doing things of of advancing your craft is your craft if you're not doing that and you're uh and you're not improving as I say you could you've got to question and and number two it's this it's it's it's being consistent and being being consistent in your in your delivery if you want to if you want to get better and you want you want to improve you want more leads you've you've got to find systems you can't as I say you can't do things off the wind and there has as I've said with anything there there has to be a moment in life where because I feel these days everyone wants a quick win and then of course we all want quick wins whether that's in the stock market whether that's I don't know yeah anyone wants quick wins these days because of the way century media is the way life is you know people coming to see us yeah rather than you say that it's taking them years and years and years maybe to get into this situation where they went pain but they want to correct that within one week that's not going to happen. You've got to be consistent yeah so what I'm trying to say is there comes that time where you have to put pen to paper and put your head down on work and you've got to work hard. And then if you don't do that and you're always jumping to the next mentor every three months or you're Because that's the the honeymoon period again and then you go to the next one and then you're you're jumping from gym to gym or you're I I don't think it's in the world. There there has to be a point where you you you have to put your head down and work and um work out your own systems, put some hard work in and try things. And I'm I'm a believer in yes, people can have luck, but I think you've got to create your own luck. And you create your own luck by being consistent, being passionate, and putting the work in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely. That that word's key, consistency. Someone asked me the other day, actually, someone said in in one of my coaching calls with them, like, what's what's the difference between like me and where I'm at now? This was the the PT that was asking this question to me and some of the people you've worked with a long time and that get the best results, what's the difference? And I just replied with they are unreasonably consistent, the way I would put it is like they're consistent on a level that most people don't understand. Not that you know, using the word unreasonable might make it seem like it's out of reach, it's not out of reach at all, but it's just unreasonable in a sense that we live in a world now where most people that you interact with aren't that consistent at most things. You know, most people, I know we live in a bit of an echo chain because we're in fitness, but if you if you speak to most normal people, they aren't consistent with the health, they're aren't they not consistent with their exercise, they're not consistent with how they want to parent their kids, they're not consistent with how they want to develop themselves, they're not consistent in the career, for example, all these all these small things that would add up. And like you've got to be the person that's unreasonably consistent, you've got to be the person that does show up, that does say what you're gonna do, that is gonna follow through with your action, that is gonna make a plan and then follow it step by step. And that's what gets you to the place where most people aren't. It's quite simple, really. It's not it's not easy, but it's simple in terms of the recipe to follow. Um that's what we try and do, don't we just break it down and then stay consistent with those steps? And there have been times, haven't the poll where you said to me, like, you know, what's next? And I've almost just gone, nothing. Like, keep going, keep doing what you're doing. Like, I know it's not sexy, I know it's not mind-blowingly amazing advice, but keep going, just keep doing this.
SPEAKER_01Def definitely. And it's I think like anything, you're gonna you're gonna have shh you're gonna have disappointments, but also some weeks you you're gonna you're you're you're gonna you're gonna be things are gonna happen. You're gonna be like, this is working. So it it's trying to try and not not to get too low when you've got those disappointments and things things are working. And it's it's trying to write that wage because nothing's gonna be linear, just like fat was. And it's trying to understand, understand that, but just just being consistent and that all or nothing mentality you don't want. You just want to be consistent in your delivery, and and I and I think things, things will, things will work out. If they don't, if they don't work out, then you you just have to look at other things that that's where you come to believe, and that's where you're my support. So if I think if I think things aren't working, coming back to be having a mentor, I think it's very important to have a mentor because there are periods where you don't yourself and you're thinking this is not working, that's when I reach out to you. And then you'll come back with a voice note and say, Paul, don't worry, try this, try that. Because you've been there, you've done it, you understand.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we all have those wobbles, don't we? Where we need a bit of a shape. And it's like, Well, you can do it, let's keep going. Like, I need that, I have a person that does that for me. We all need that in our own different ways. Um, and and I I agree with you. You know, I've been very fortunate that from very, very early on in my fitness career I had mentors, and without them, I would not be here. I would have left after three months, I'd have been done. Because I really did need that person to just go, come on, you can do it, let's keep going. And so we all need that. We've all we know we we all need that level headedness and experience at times. To to start start to bring this to a close, Paul. I'm just interested to sort of give people an idea of what are you now wanting to achieve with your business? Now that this is something that you can you can put your all into in terms of it's your full-time focus now, what are you working towards? What's the what's the the business that you're trying to build?
SPEAKER_01So, what I'm trying to trying to do now is is get more consistent with leads, with uh conversion, conversion rate, yeah. I'm trying to and then even maybe even looking at that offer again to say could you set down to two sessions, maybe. I think who knows? Just to but I think this is where it's kind of work in progress in the end. You're always you're always thinking thinking about things and how you can improve things. Whether whether and I've had conversations with you, Matt, as well, but I don't want to position myself mainly to the market as a personal trader. I want to position myself a little bit more to say why if I offer this, uh but then you don't want to then market yourself as a physio because you're not physio, you're not qualified as a physio. So it's trying to find that correct messaging to give to your ideal market to say this is what I do, and this is this is the value I provide. So it's it's it's it's just looking at your system, looking at your processes, reclining there. Uh obviously wanting to build that momentum at the moment we're in August, so it's a bit of a holiday season, but I'm still getting trials, uh PD coming into trials, which is a good sign. So hopefully you you've signed up six people in the last six weeks, haven't you? Yeah, so like yeah, so I I've got I've got currently another yeah, I think five and six coming in, which which is good. And that's as I say, that's that's been quite hard work doing it, being consistent with both group policies, etc. But yeah, no, it's it's looking it's looking good there. So hopefully when the September rush comes back and once back to normality, hopefully things will will get a little bit busier, uh, but just just being consistent. And then we've touched on so you know I thought we said like 189% of the business will will be around this kind of pain-three living and longevity of life, so 40 plus target market, so 40 56 is and then the second bit of the business, because I I've done S and C as well, I did language draw and S C strapped and conditioning. And I've got a bit of a passion around sort of youth youth. S C especially around sort of speed. So I I'm I'm working on this system at the moment or this this speed system for kids. And I've already had a few people coming in doing it, so I'm just kind of working on the package there as well, with huge huge speed. And then I I see that as maybe sort of 10 or 20%, that second pillar of the business as well. So work working on that because I I think again going back to when I was 13, 14, playing against Arsenal, they were just so much quicker, faster than us. And I and I think then there's definitely a gap there. And so for any PTs out there listening, there's definitely a gap in that sort of S and C world, that movement. Yeah. Where your kid, your kids, your the kids might be good at technical skills, but are they good in in movement quality? So I definitely think there's a gap there. Because I think the academies well, I know the academies are pushing that the S and C and the movement, but are they are they pushing it for are are the local clubs doing it for the grassroots? I don't think they are, because when I go and see kids playing football, they're good footballers, but their movement could be better, their speed could be better, their change of direction could be better. So I think there's there's a bit of a gap there as well. Yeah. So kind of focus focus on that as well. Which I think would be would be good good for the business coming forward.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So we've got a bit of variety in how you're going to approach this. And I'm glad you mentioned the SNC stuff as well, because this is a really good example of you know, your fitness business, your PT business doesn't just always have to be about in-person PT and then online coaching. You know, this is a conversation I find myself having more and more at the moment. There are other routes you can go down, you don't have to just sort of default to online coaching. You can still do in-person work, but do it in different ways with different audiences and and different services. Like Paul is here, or you can go online, but even still, you know, if you didn't want to do online coaching, Paul could do an online speed system for kids, and maybe that's where it'll go one day once he's figured out what it works like in person. Um, so there are just endless different avenues you can go down with these fitness businesses, and it drives me mad when it feels like all anyone thinks they can do is go one-to-one PT, one-to-one online coaching, and it's like, no, no, no, you you you're only seeing the very tip of the iceberg there. There's lots more that you can you can do with this. And I know that in the past we've we've dabbled a little bit with trying to do some online coaching stuff and things like that, and it it didn't quite work out, it wasn't quite for you. Whereas now something like this is much more aligned with what you would want to spend your time doing. And you know, if either you were gonna go down the online route in the future, it probably would be more aligned with something like this, wouldn't it, rather than just generic online coaching?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Uh for me, I mean ever everyone works differently, but for me, I I think mastering the crafts do it sort of one-to-one in person, I think that works for me. And then once you're confident in that delivery and you've got those skills, then potentially you you can you can go into that that online world personally. But I think if you're if you've never really worked in person one-to-one, I question whether you've got the skills to to work with someone just online when they're from the get-go. But as I say, there'd be some amazing coaches out there and what and they could be brilliant at what they do. But for me personally, I think you really need to master those skills face to face first. And then, like anything, it it's just kind of battery testing. So you've got your H-call now. So I'm looking at my the speed system at kids, but at the moment I'm doing this one-to-one and I've I've I've got trouble coming tonight with for the acceleration beast. And now straight away, I'm thinking as I've got a bit more time, I'm I'm gonna sort them in now with with videos. So I'm gonna give him homework to do. So maybe the first week it would be more sort of mobility around hips. And then this the good the second second week might be a little bit more about sort of plyometrics, how I would jump and and things like this, and then going into sort of the acceleration positions. So we we're building that package, and then maybe that package then can be like I can think about packaging that up into an online package, but for me personally, I want to test that, I want to test that out on a on a one-to-one, face-to-face, before I broadcast it anywhere else in the on the online.
SPEAKER_00And that's where all your social proof will come from, that's where all your success stories will come from, and you're just sort of building the system for the people that are in front of you. You're not building it for people you might never ever work with, you're building it for the the clients you're already working with, and then that might become a system that you can sell in and of itself. So, yeah, it's a smarter way to do it, I believe. Uh, Paul, I appreciate you spending some time with me today. I appreciate you coming on the show and being on the other side for a change. Um, if anyone listening did want to connect with you, if they wanted to find you and sort of reach out, ask any questions or anything like that, where could they find you? Where would be the best place for them to come and connect with you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so just on just on Instagram, so that's um PMFitness74 on Instagram. That they'll find me, find me there. And then the same on the same one on Facebook as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And we'll put the links to that in the show notes and stuff as well. And maybe by the time we find Paul on Instagram, he's found a different song to use on some of his videos. We had a little funny discussion about this the other day. Um, but yeah, that's a bit of an inside joke. Um, but Paul, thank you for being here, mate. Really appreciate it. And I know the listeners will really appreciate hearing a different story, a different voice, a different way into the industry. It's always nice just to hear, ah, you know, there's a bit of that that resonates with me. There's a bit of that that resonates with me. People really appreciate that. So thank you, mate. Yeah, thanks a lot, Matt. Thanks for all your help. So there you have it. That was my interview with Paul Mutlow, someone that I've had the pleasure of working with one-to-one. And hopefully now you've got a few different insights as to how about he's gone about building his business, building his skill set, how he's approaching it now in terms of his mindset and his expectations as well, where he's going to go next with his business, which again is maybe slightly different than the typical story that he used to hear in. And if you want to connect with Paul at all, you can head to the various places he mentioned a few moments ago, or you can head to the description down below, and I'll make sure that the links are available in there for you. Thank you again to Paul for coming on. Much appreciated in terms of what he was happy to share with us. And if you aren't already doing so, make sure that you become a longtime listener of the show like Paul. Clearly worked well for him. So make sure you subscribe to the show and listen in for future episodes, future interviews like this one. And until next time, take care of yourself and we'll catch you again next week.