Redesigning Life with Sabrina Soto

SPECIAL EDITION: The Art of Saying No and Setting Healthy Boundaries with Terri Cole & Cat Cora

• Sabrina Soto • Season 1 • Episode 85

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Are you someone who can't say no without feeling guilty? Do you find yourself constantly doing too much for others while neglecting your own needs? In this candid, unfiltered conversation, bestselling author Terri Cole ("Boundary Boss" and "Too Much") joins with celebrity chef Cat Cora to tackle the boundary issues that keep so many of us—especially women—stuck in patterns of overgiving and resentment.

The conversation delivers practical, actionable advice you can implement immediately. Learn how to conduct a "resentment inventory" to identify exactly where boundaries are needed in your life. Discover why the simple act of "buying time" before saying yes can revolutionize your relationships. And perhaps most importantly, understand that setting boundaries doesn't require being cold or mean—you can establish healthy limits with both compassion and clarity.

Whether you're struggling with people-pleasing tendencies or simply want more energy and authenticity in your life, this conversation offers a roadmap to the freedom that comes when you finally give yourself permission to matter as much as everyone else.


To watch the segment with Terri Cole, Cat Cora and Sabrina, The Sabrina Soto Show: 

https://www.sabrinasoto.com/the-sabrina-soto-show/

Connect with Sabrina on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/sabrina_soto


Connect with Terri Cole here:

https://www.terricole.com/

Terri Cole on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/terricole/#


Connect with Cat Cora 

https://catcora.com/pages/about-cat

Cat Cora on Instagram 

https://www.instagram.com/catcora/#

Speaker 1:

Welcome to a special edition of Redesigning Life. Many of you know I have a new show called the Sabrina Soto Show Out, and I was able to invite amazing experts in their fields just to come in and have a great conversation. But because it's a show, we have to edit it down. Now, these conversations, they were so good that I wanted to publish the raw, unedited version, and that's what this episode is. You're going to hear action and you may hear a crew in the background, but I wanted to publish this so you can really listen to the entire chat. So here you go, ladies. Well, hello. I'm thrilled to have you both here.

Speaker 1:

Terry, you and I have been friends for years now and I think you are incredible. You have the book Now Too Much. And Boundary Boss, I do, kat, I mean, I just look up to you so much. Thank you, not just because of your career, but like what you stand for, who you are, and I know that we have a little bit in common because of, you know, not having the best boundaries sometimes in our personal life. So let's get started, because I need all the tips that you can give to, I think, both of us. So tell us first like the book is about. It's called Too Much and I feel like I am too much, a lot, yeah, extra, because I feel like I don't know how to say no and feel without feeling guilty. Do you feel like you have that as well?

Speaker 2:

I do. I think I've grown a little bit from that. I think that I actually am a boundary setter and I think sometimes I probably set too many boundaries. But is there a thing you said too many? I don't set enough, I do set. I do set a lot of boundaries. But that comes from you, comes from childhood trauma and not trusting and losing trust at a young age and feeling scared a lot.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I think it is a thing, because that was the question, because you can have boundaries that are too porous, which is what you're talking about, which is too loose, or they can be too rigid and that's what you're describing where it's sort of like creating more walls rather than boundaries for safety, and a lot of times it's the illusion of safety.

Speaker 3:

But I think women in particular struggle with this, at least. I mean, I've been a therapist for almost three decades and in my therapy practice, nobody teaches anyone how to set boundaries, the language of boundaries, how to do it. Nobody teaches anyone how to set boundaries, the language of boundaries, how to do it. And so that's why I wrote my first book, because all my clients were suffering in the same way that I used to when I was younger. Because you know what do they say. You teach what you most need to learn. So I feel like this is a valuable conversation for anyone who feels like it's hard to say no or who is doing too much in their lives, Because are you not doing all the things for all the people?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I cannot do them because if I don't do them they don't get done. But I was thinking about you in the shower this morning and that sounds really weird. But I was thinking about your first book, boundary Boss, and how my sister it changed her life because she didn't have boundaries. But if I'm being really honest and transparent about what I was thinking about, is I kind of like that she doesn't have boundaries when it comes to me. I just hate that she doesn't have boundaries when it comes to other people. Is that a normal way to feel?

Speaker 3:

I mean it is because here's the thing, in a way you benefit right from our friends who are boundary disasters. We know they'll always show up, we know they're always willing to do whatever it is. So it kind of makes sense. You don't necessarily want your sister to have good boundaries with you, just other people in her life yes, but in reality you do want her to have boundaries.

Speaker 1:

Of course I gave her your book.

Speaker 3:

Yeah Well, there you go Now. The jig is up now, that's correct.

Speaker 1:

Now I also think that when women create too many boundaries, unfortunately we're labeled the B word, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And not even let's be clear, though, it's not even too many when women create boundaries, it can be perceived as being aggressive, because if you look at the way that we've been indoctrinated into the system, what is femininity? Be compliant, smile, hey, little girl.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, don't talk too much, don't talk too loud, don't you know? Tell people what you really think. You know, I think that that's, you know, part of being in a male dominated industry.

Speaker 1:

Yes, can you talk about that?

Speaker 2:

That's something that I struggled with a lot throughout my career because, you know, I am someone who sets boundaries and I think that that came from my parents because they, you know, I am someone who sets boundaries and I think that that came from my parents because they were, they set healthy boundaries and communicated, and I saw that example. But also, um, again going back to childhood trauma, I said it because I didn't trust anybody. You know, I lost trust at a really young age. So, um, and that just came from sexual abuse and, I'll just be honest, sexual abuse from a cousin, and so my trust was shot from six years old.

Speaker 2:

So I really started setting boundaries pretty stringently and I think that I've tried to be a little, you know, I've tried to learn, also because I like to self-help some and I like to learn, also because I like to self-help some and I like to learn.

Speaker 2:

But it's hard because if I start feeling uncomfortable with something, I will say I'm not OK, but I have learned to say I'm not OK with this, but I'll be OK with this, right, you know, to try to balance that out some, because there was a time when it was so stringent because of my fears, yes, and I didn't want to get hurt and I didn't want people to hurt me, so I set boundaries. But I've tried to learn over the years and I'm not perfect and I'm going to read all your books and I want to hear from, from you know, what you think about that, because sometimes I also as far as doing too much having six teenage boys, I want to be. As far as doing too much having six teenage boys, I want to be. I want to do everything for everybody and I do tend to still put everybody before myself.

Speaker 3:

I think what you're talking about. There's a hyper independence that can come from when you have, when you don't trust people, like you said, having disordered boundaries, being a high functioning codependent, being a high-functioning codependent. All of that comes with hyper-independence, which in one way, is great codependency, where you can count on your wife, she can count on you, I can count on my husband, right? You can count on your friends because we allow other people to do things for us in our lives and I find most high-functioning codependents, or people with disordered boundaries, are really good at giving. I know you are, I know you are and really crappy at receiving.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, yes, yes, you just hit the nail on the head. It's very hard. I think that that is very true. It is. I think that having healthy relationships has helped me. Okay, feel like, okay, I can, I can let go, I can let go, you know. But there's still times when I'm like, uh, I feel that I'm not feeling, I'm feeling nervous, I'm feeling scared, I'm feeling like some something's going to happen, where then I start up and then I over-communicate everything.

Speaker 1:

I can I then?

Speaker 2:

I over communicate everything. I can't I over communicate everything. Is there such thing as over communicating? Is there?

Speaker 3:

I mean, yeah, really. I mean, it depends on, I mean, if you're texting someone every five minutes to be like, are you sure you're going to be there? Are you sure you're going to be there? Did you do it? Did you do it right? Yeah, so I think that there's a whole control issue that we're like not talking about, but it really is the foundation Any kind of codependency is built on. It's an overt or covert desire to control other people's outcomes, or other people's feeling states, other people's situations and especially with children, it can be so or with people who work for us. It can be really tempting to just want to do everything for everyone because A we're worried they're not going to do it right. Let's be honest.

Speaker 2:

But they don't. That's the truth. That is number one. I think that's number one on the list is. I feel like that I mean and not everybody, there's a couple, you know. There's people in our lives that we do trust in that sense. But there are a lot of times where you feel like and I know this, I do this as a helicopter mom, and I know I'm a helicopter mom and I'll say it, I'm going through college applications right now and I'm like okay, we've got to make sure you sit down. Are you going to sit down? Okay, at 3 o'clock. I mean, it's like and I know I do that I'm guilty because I want them to succeed and I want them to do it right.

Speaker 1:

I would be the same way, terry. Like, what advice would you give if you don't like we're going to sit down at this time and do the and sit with them and do like the form with them. How can we tackle something like what Kat's going through in a more healthy way, instead of micromanaging and making Like, where do we start?

Speaker 3:

Well, we have to know how we feel right. So part of it is before. Whether you're talking about micromanaging kids or something else, the way that you can find a GPS to get you there is doing a resentment inventory, because where you're feeling resentment is probably where you're overgiving or overfunctioning, or maybe a boundary needs to be put in place. So this is something easy that people can do literally right now. You can bring to mind where are you feeling resentful in your life. So let's say it's with a sister. I feel resentful because she comes to my apartment and she uses her keys to borrow my clothes and not tell me that was a real live example from my life. Uses her keys to borrow my clothes and not tell me. That was a real live example from my life. I'm like asking for a friend and so now I'd have to look and go. Okay, I'd write that down as the example. But I'd have to look and say all right, what is my 50% of this situation? Well, my 50% was not saying anything about it, just being pissed off or just not getting back to her, like being passive, aggressive rather than direct. So now you go. Okay, what is the fix? I need to have a conversation I need to tell my sister if she wants to continue to have the key to my apartment, she will need to ask me to borrow my stuff.

Speaker 3:

And that is how you go from being resentful and doing nothing about it and being resentful and actually problem solving. Because this is with boundaries they will not set themselves. No one else knows your preference, your desire, your limit or your deal breaker. That's on you, that's on you, that's on me, and if we don't express those things to the people in our lives, they don't know us. We're resentful because, as you said before when we were talking like we write a whole story about why, oh, my sister's not even asking me, because she doesn't give a crap, because she's entitled, because she thinks she owns my clothes or whatever it is. And the reality is people are busy, people get lost in their own lives. There's a million reasons, but it is our responsibility to assert our boundaries and our boundary preferences with the people in our lives, and our relationships are so much better for it.

Speaker 1:

I know you say a lot that we basically train people to like how to treat us. But taking that one step further, after you set the boundaries what I deal with? Because I read your book, then I feel like, yeah, I got this. Then I set a boundary and then I feel guilty, then I send it back. So how do you deal with the guilt after you set the boundary?

Speaker 3:

First of all, that's a great question. You have to expect that you're going to feel something. You might get pushback from the people in your life, just as you were saying. I like it when my sister has no boundaries with me, but not with other people. So relationships are like a dance and when you change your steps, the other person is going to notice. Yeah, so when you feel guilty, first of all, I'm going to ask you to not turn away from that feeling. I'm going to ask you to challenge that feeling.

Speaker 3:

So much of the time, guilt is a habituated experience where we don't even have a good reason to feel guilty and we just feel guilty. Yes, we don't even have a good reason to feel guilty and we just feel guilty. Yes, so we're going to lovingly and with compassion, question do I actually have a reason to feel guilty or am I just so used to feeling guilty that it is a habituated behavior, not a real behavior that is warranted for this situation? Because I think that most women we are raised and praised to be self-abandoning, codependents. Yes, and it is not what we want to teach our daughters or our sons.

Speaker 3:

What does that mean? Being abandoning codependent? Meaning that we will abandon what we need, what is in our highest and best for everyone else. We are endlessly taking one for the team, right? If somebody is going to, someone always needs something more than we do, because when you're a high-functioning codependent, you're all like. Our mantra is I got it, I got it, I got it. It's not a big deal, and it has to be me, because we don't think that other people will do it the way that we want it done.

Speaker 1:

A lot of times, Are you in my head? Yes, but this is why you're here. That's good, that's really good. You're here because this is what happens every day. I love to cook so much. It is my way to end the day, to give back to myself, but I give myself away all day long. By the time it's dinner time, I'm so exhausted. I really don't have the time. Olivia and I do take out a lot, and I want you to teach me how to do a table of one, but I want to tell you, in the heels of what you just said, of something that happened two days ago. I created a boundary. I felt such guilt and I did the wrong thing. I called my mother for advice and I realized that she's the one who taught me codependency. And she told me oh, you shouldn't do that. You're going to feel guilty. And you know what I did I abandoned myself.

Speaker 3:

So can you talk about who to go for when you do feel guilt. Well, part of it is do not go to the person who taught you all the dysfunction so we're just going to get away from the family of origin, even though we love them. But that's like the scene of the crime. So how about we don't go back there?

Speaker 2:

Sorry, mom.

Speaker 3:

How about we just go to healthy friends who are therapists or who have good boundaries? And part of it is before we even do that. You have to acknowledge to yourself that how you feel, what you think and what you want matters. And, sabrina, it's got to matter to you more than what anyone else wants, thinks or feels. Cooking makes me feel good. If it's the way that I unwind at night, if it's important to me, if it nourishes me, then I'm going to set up my schedule so that I'm not going to give it away. And when someone asks me to do a last minute dinner, I'm going to say no because I want to be home.

Speaker 3:

And I think we have to be proactive with our boundaries. You know that you have a tendency to give yourself away, so be proactive with your schedule. Write it in at 4.30. I'm starting dinner, or 5 or whenever. You know what I mean Like. Actually put it in your calendar, because that's something that you're going to be so much better for everyone in your life. Because what happens when we give ourselves away? Eventually we get bitter.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, who me what. What I do like about this your new book too much is that you do have little tips for people in those little boxes of just or even some of them are affirmations. So if I did everything in your book and I created a lot of boundaries, tell me how a life can transform.

Speaker 3:

Okay. So first of all, let's make a distinction, not a lot of boundaries. If I set healthy boundaries regularly, early and often, what would my life look like or how would I feel? Well, part of it is, you would be less exhausted. So there's a real practicality to healthy boundaries, where we just have more expansion in life. We have more inner peace because we're not saying yes when we want to say no under the guise of being nice, because first of all, obviously, when we really look at it, it isn't being nice, it's misleading people, it's giving corrupted data to the people in our life. So people don't really know us because they think we're doing it because we want to, because we said yes, because we didn't know how to say no. So on the other side of those disordered boundaries is much better relationships, much more bandwidth. You gain so much bandwidth back of your own energy when you are not doing things you don't want to do all the time, when you're being more honest, when your feelings are hurt or when you want something, you're asserting yourself.

Speaker 3:

So I feel like the life that you're meant to live is on the other side of healthy boundaries and that when we don't have them and I've seen this in my practice. You can live your whole life and people don't really know you because you're just checking boxes. And I've had women come into my therapy practice in their sixth or seventh decade of life being like okay, I've done it all, kids are on track, everyone's going to Ivy League schools, we got some money. Why do I feel so empty? And I'm like because you built your whole life on checking boxes, saying yes when you wanted to say no, not asserting who you really were, and people don't know you. It can be an existential crisis. So we don't want that. Yes, we do want to stand up and have our own backs, and that's what it means to be healthy with boundaries is that you can count on you to actually have your own back, and you're not.

Speaker 2:

So vulnerable to other people and don't you think that's really healthy for your family and your friends and people you associate with? Because you're actually being honest yeah right, You're not being dishonest about what you really feel, which builds resentment, we know, and I mean I think that one area that I think that where my boundaries have been healthy is that I know my kids come to me because they know I will be honest with them.

Speaker 1:

Yes, you know.

Speaker 2:

I'll be honest, I'm not going to be and not like I'm in a loving way and a nurturing way and in a healthy way, but I'm not going to say, oh yeah, you should go do that because I know that's what you really want to do. It's like they come to me because they really they respect my, my honesty, right.

Speaker 2:

And the boundaries of like you know what I love that you want to do that, but right now that's not really. You know that's not doable right now. That's not. Maybe later, that's fine, it's fine. No, I just I feel like that I know what you're talking about feeling guilty Because you're like God, I'm like I gotta be the bad guy here.

Speaker 2:

And set the boundaries. You know all the time and you do, you feel so guilty and you feel so like you're. You're the bad guy always. You know, because you're the ones that you're the one that is setting some boundaries or at least communicating whether you're always right or not Just communicating how I feel. I feel like, just from my perspective, that this doesn't feel good to me. You know, this I need, we need to talk about it or communicate about it. And I think that that's where I think I struggle too is that I do set boundaries but I do feel guilty, and that was a great point. But I mean, that was a great point because I think, especially women, I think we always feel guilty because we communicate and sometimes we over-communicate, but I don't ever feel like that's been a bad thing. I think when I don't communicate something and I hold it in is when I start the resentment and it just kind of boils.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we have to look at, though, why we're feeling guilty.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I think that that is a really important part of this process is should you actually or exactly like did you do something wrong? So much of the time it's just learned behavior. It's not even about something we've done.

Speaker 1:

Is it safe to say that the fertilizer or soil that grows high functioning codependence is always childhood trauma, I mean listen, I wouldn't say it would have to be even trauma, like the reality is raising daughters in a patriarchal system.

Speaker 3:

We were taught to turn that frown around. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all, like nobody cared about how you really thought they were. Like be compliant, please Be nice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was raised because my mom was a really strong woman. She was raised in a military family. She got her doctorate in nursing in Mississippi when that wasn't even accepted, so she and she was a feminist. But there were certain things where my mom would be like, okay, and I could see that she was complying and it was just how she was raised, and then that was. You know, sometimes she would say to me Kat, you know, don't embellish so much, cause I've, you know, like I love an exaggeration, I do. I mean, you know I'd be on television and be like, well, I did this. You know, I'm embellished a little bit. You know, she's like you're embellishing everything. I said, mom, that's just, that's just, that's just television, that's okay, you know so. And she was an amazing nurse practitioner and had a doctorate and everything. But she was just demure and like don't be too, don't, don't, don't beat your drum so loud, just be, you know. And so there was this whole juxtaposition that I grew up with. It was so confusing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but it's funny because what you say about your mom, I think about you. When you and I spoke and you said that you have a problem setting boundaries, I'm like you Kat Cora has problems Like you're such a badass. I don't think I said I did.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I said you did, god sorry. Oh right, okay, that's where I was wrong. I mean safe to say, though, for anyone listening, it's about taking baby steps, right, terry? Yes, so if you can give anyone listening or watching this some tips, takeaway tips of how to really set boundaries, create a different scenario in their life, what would it be?

Speaker 3:

Well, the first thing is what we already said, which is to do the resentment inventory, because you need to know where you need a boundary. That's the beginning. Another thing is I think we really have to stop the auto yes. So if you're someone who's just a people-pleasing yes person, even if you're very high-functioning, we have to stop that auto yes. So how you can do it is you can actually buy time.

Speaker 3:

So, instead of someone asks you to do something, so I say everybody watching, take the next seven days, no immediate yeses to anything and we learn to buy time, which can just sound like oh hey, I need to check with my partner or I need to see if I have time on my calendar.

Speaker 3:

I need to look at my work to see if I can help you with that project depending on my workload, to see if I can help you with that project depending on my workload, because what happens is, and then you can say I'll give you an answer by the end of the week. I'll let you know by tomorrow, when we buy time, instead of giving an automatic yes, that we're going to regret a lot of times. Now we have all of this expansion to come back and give an honest no and we can start with something positive, right? If you're saying no to someone that you actually care about or you like, you can say I love that you think of me. That is so great, and I'm not available on Wednesday, but I hope you guys have a great time. So I feel like there's so much fear around saying no. But we can always set boundaries with compassion and care, a little bit of heat if we need to, but generally speaking, you don't have to be bitchy to set boundaries, right? You know something?

Speaker 1:

you did yesterday. Yesterday you sent me a bunch of questions and I was working and I had that knee jerk reaction of having to get back to you. But I really couldn't because I was working. And you said at the end, you don't have to get back to me right now. And I felt this like relief come over me when you said that and I realized that it's that knee-jerk reaction of having to get back. But I feel like it's the day and age of this digital age that we're always on our phones and constantly having communication with everyone and that's what programmed us to feel that way. But buying time, I think, for me, is going to be a huge game changer.

Speaker 3:

Yes, Because not everybody feels compelled to get right back. That's just a lot of times, when you're a high functioning codependent, you feel you don't want people waiting. We're so dialed into how other people feel and we're worried. I don't want them to think, I don't want them to feel. So if you ever have those thoughts, I don't want them to think, I don't want them to feel. You know, know, you need to back up and get to your own side of the street, because you are only responsible for what you think and how you feel.

Speaker 2:

One of the things that I've been doing and I know that that is the best advice is to take a pause, because I don't think we do that at all, and I think that that is such great advice for people, especially people that are yes, yes, yes, yes, yes is one thing that I've started doing in text, because we do that a lot with text, where that's how we communicate, a lot is, I'll say at the end of it, like no pressure, like no pressure, like you know if. But again you're managing someone else.

Speaker 2:

That's not a good thing. I thought that was a good thing. I thought I was like that was. I was about to be like okay, look what I do, look what I do. Yeah, I do this.

Speaker 3:

I say no pressure, you're still managing someone else's feelings. What I want to know is what do we, how do we protect ourselves? Yes, so you can then say I'm going to dinner now, so I'm jumping off Meaning, so you relieve yourself from feeling obligated to get back to someone. So those are the things that we have to worry about, not necessarily making someone else feel OK, that's good, ok, see, that's what we still have to do.

Speaker 1:

It's you know, we're learning. That's right. We're a work in progress. We're a work in progress, correct? So, with that said, what I learned today is that we can buy time. No auto. Yeses that there's going to be guilt, but it's baby steps. Correct anything I'm missing? Okay, good cat, you are making a sweet potato zoodle stir fry terry. Do you want to stay? I do, let's go. I'm hungry. Yeah, I'm star. All right, conversation got me, got my appetite going.