#100: How to Get Your Team Involved with Marketing w/ Dr. Sten Ericson

In this episode of the Dental Marketing Secrets podcast, Dr. Sten Ericson joins the show to discuss the importance of involving the entire dental team in marketing efforts. He emphasizes the need for a shared vision and realistic expectations of success, while also addressing the challenges of staff turnover and the necessity of building a strong practice culture. The conversation highlights the significance of autonomy, accountability, and the role of incentives in motivating team members. Dr. Erickson shares insights on establishing core values and creating a culture that fosters service and engagement, ultimately leading to improved patient experiences and practice growth.

Takeaways:

• Realistic expectations of success are crucial for team buy-in.
• Creating a culture of service enhances patient experiences.
• Autonomy and accountability drive team motivation.
• Establishing core values helps shape practice culture.
• Incentives should align with team motivations and practice goals.
• Leaders must lead by example to cultivate a positive culture.

Chapters

00:00
The Power of Team Involvement in Marketing

03:40
Understanding Team Dynamics and Shared Goals

11:49
Creating a Culture of Service and Autonomy

20:29
Navigating Staff Turnover and Building Resilience

30:16
Establishing Core Values and a Unique Culture

39:29
Motivating Teams Through Incentives and Marketing Engagement

46:32
Leading by Example and Cultivating Accountability

...

Connect with Dr. Sten Ericson

connect@pathwaydentalsolutions.com

www.pathwaydentalsolutions.com

Transcript

0:00

It's either. All right, you guys, welcome back to another episode of the Dental Marketing Secrets podcast. I've got Dr. Stan Erickson with me today. We're going to be talking a little bit about how marketing, how to get everyone involved in marketing on your team, because that's oftentimes a big challenge. You know, a lot of times the doctor will be the one to present an idea and the team's kind of groaning in the background. You know, not sure if they want to get behind another initiative, but when they do, it's it's it's transformational. And so we're going to get into that a little bit. But first, I to welcome Dr. Erickson. Thanks for joining us today. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Looking forward to it. Yeah, me too. Me too. This is a topic that I, you know, I feel like we, we touch on every once in a while, but it's just, it's not very well understood, you know? And so it's, it's one of those things that I, really do feel like it can be a game changer for a practice if they can enlist all of their team members behind, behind marketing and behind that, you know, common vision. So why don't, but let's start first, Stan, why don't you give us a, take a few minutes, give us your background so people know kind of where you're coming from. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So I'm in California. in Barbara County, have, let's say four or five, because we actually just let one go, to bring on a couple more. um So the little trajectory on my practice, I got out of school working kind of more of a clinic atmosphere, which a lot of people did, and realized very quickly that was not where I wanted to stay. But it was a great learning experience for me as far as the learning how to turn and burn and all that good stuff. um Came up to Santa Barbara and pretty quickly associated and then partnered up with a doctor. Bought him out after nine months or a year. within three months, the doctor next to me actually passed away and so his wife asked me to take over. And then about a year later, I got the second practice. And then a year later after that, I bought another practice to merge with the second practice and then kind of one, two, three, and then that was kind of the trajectory. It wasn't really... Not necessarily something I planned on exactly like that. uh I was definitely open to it, but uh you know, it was exciting and it still is and I'm still really happy with it. trajectory we're on. uh And the plan is right now, hopefully, probably another practice in the next year or two, you know, maybe another one at some point. But we have no ambitions to, you know, the be the next smile brands or anything like that. But we are kind of really enjoying kind of growing as a group and all my doctors are partners and we even have a non dentist partner as well. So they're all earning equity, uh kind of yearly on a yearly basis right now. So that's us in a nutshell. Yeah Yeah, what a ride too. mean, just things, things happen, you know, I mean, and you don't always, like you said, you don't always plan it for it, but if you're open-minded, oftentimes those can turn into major opportunities, you know, that brings some, some really cool initiatives, cool things down the road. Life is what happens when you're making other plans, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's a good way to put it. Well, cool. Well, let's get into this because I know you've got a lot of experience doing this. And like I mentioned before, this is just a topic that is so needed in the industry right now. So let's kind of start off, just paint the picture of what we're talking about here. I mean, in terms of when you are able to successfully enlist your entire team in the same vision, you're all rowing in that same direction. We're speaking marketing generally, but I think this is applicable to pretty much anything. ah And so when that is occurring, when everyone's firing on all cylinders, what does that look like from a practice standpoint? What does it look like from a patient standpoint, a doctor standpoint? Yeah, there's definitely variations of it. And to have 100 % buy-in at all times is something we all shoot for, but it's pretty naive to even think that's possible, I think. And so that's kind of one. I hate to say that the way to reach your goals is to lower your standards, but in certain aspects, it's developing more of a realistic idea about what success looks like, or what the end result looks like. ah we talk about this a lot with our team. It's, you we just call it rowing in the same direction. You know, if it doesn't make the boat go faster, I forget the book that that came from. But you know, if it doesn't make the boat go faster, what are we doing? Right? we, we have a little custom emoji we put on Slack with the boat and things like that. So we're talking about those things, people know exactly the, the topic or at least the theme. So it's, know, it really looks like people kind of working together. And, you know, and kind of really with a with a a shared goal really. I think we've done a lot of pushes, whether it's marketing or developing a new protocol or we were just bringing in a different kind of scanner right now to all three offices right now, kind of an additional scanner uh for the offices. And so that's the idea is to kind of scan every patient that comes in. We needed a scanner in the office for that. uh That's a big push, right? That's a little more time on the front office. It's a little more time on the treatment coordinators because they're going to use that for treatment. planning things like that. so I think really getting the team to understand what the benefits are and why you're doing something. you know, money is not always the biggest driver, but, you know, we've sort of learned, I think it's time, honestly, with this generation right now, in our practices, but, you know, figuring out what kind of shared reward or, you know, whether it's just practice success or whether it's something actually personal or whether it's kind of a shared pot. of money or time or an extra day off, we've even done things like that, but kind of figuring out what those things are, you what makes these people, um, you know, really get motivated to do something. So, um, and then you got to talk about it is the thing. And I think we learned and I'm sure a lot of other people learned early on, you know, set in, forget it. It does not work. You know, it's just, it just doesn't work. And you get really frustrated like, Hey, I just, we just went over this last month or we just went over this last year. We did whatever it was, you know, and if you don't, you know, beat the drum as we call it, you know, it's kind of like old Viking ships are right there beating the drum. Yeah, course. Beat the drum constantly in those in those situations. They're they're going to fizzle out in rightfully so they do in my life. It's just human nature. These aren't these aren't people trying to sabotage anything. It's just it's just the way way people operate. So it's kind of figuring out those little parts and pieces in our practice. At least that's what it's been. It's by no means a you know, a perfect system and we're not figuring out perfectly every single time. We're making mistakes just like everyone else. I'm sure you are Mark too, and figuring it out as you go. And that's simple as that. Yeah, and that's important to remember. I mean, just that it will be, it's always kind of a work in progress in that regard where it's never a perfect version or anything like that. It's just because, like you said, we're all human and we all adapt, we're all changing, we all have life circumstances that are changing. And yeah, that's important to remember that it will never be absolutely perfect. But I like what you said, Two-Stent, because there are people that are motivated differently. And so I think that's one of the challenges that when we're talking about this topic that people have is that they just want to do a one size fits all kind of blanket approach. And that just doesn't work. Unfortunately, I wish it did, but it doesn't. You need to kind of dive in and figure out how they're motivated and what's going to make most sense for them so that they can get on board. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But as we were thinking about this topic, thought of all those companies outside of dental that do this really, really well. mean, many of us have had experiences at Disney. ah I got told this on the podcast a couple of times, but I had one of my friends that went down to Disney World and she was, they have fireworks every night. And so she was watching the fireworks, had a great time. The next day she gets asked by one of the employees, well, what's... you know, how was it, you know, and everything like that. So it was amazing. You know, where we were sitting was great. The only problem was there was like this weird branch and so we couldn't see everything. And then next night they go back to watch fireworks and that branch is gone. Like it's already been cut down and you know, I mean, it's just been moved and, and, know, it's just taking initiative to have those types of experiences. And I think that's a good example of really what we're trying to accomplish when we're getting everyone on board where everyone has that authority to. to really make someone's day. And another example, I can't remember where I read it, but it's in the Ritz Carlton. They'll have, they empower all of their employees from housekeepers to managers to, they have the ability to, what is it? It's like they spend up to $2,000 a day to try and make someone's day per guest per day. that obviously takes a lot of trust and I'm sure a lot of training, but just that. that idea that everyone has the ability to go out of their way and surprise uh a patient in this regard and really make their day. It doesn't have to be a spend or anything like that. can just be something that surprises them and makes them feel really welcome. that's, know, I can sometimes we just get so into our daily rituals that it's hard to think beyond that. But if we do, then that's where it can really become a go from really just kind of a job to something that you're really. feeling oh rewarded and fulfilled with. So I think that's kind of what we're trying to talk about when we're thinking about it. What do you see too, Stan? Yeah, a couple things came up and I love what you're saying there, but I think, not no, in addition to the Disney thing, with Riz Carlton, you see oh the old Zappos, right? Things like that. can hear these names over and over about the customer service, things like that. That was a culture that they built around it. And I think that's something that can endure as long as it obviously it's beating the drum. But there's a culture of you know, of service there. And I think that's really, really important for that. You know, when people get that job, they're, I don't never worked at Disney or Ritz-Carlton. My guess is that they're beating that into your mindset from day one. this is, you know, everyone following that everyone's rowing in the same direction. And so you're not seeing a couple of people over here that are doing a little bit, a couple of people here that are doing it really well. And a couple of people that are completely disengaged. You really get this entire team to to kind of get everyone on board, not just the manager, not just the higher ups, right? And I think that's a huge thing. And I think when I start to see little bits of that in my practice where, you know, it's not my COO or not me or one of my doctors kind of telling someone how to do something, it's the other team, right? It's them getting together and actually saying, hey, well, this is not how we do it here. You know, there's a reason for this and they kind of understand the mindset, but you know. Another thing that came up there was just autonomy too with the words that you said, you know, there's an allure and kind of an image of, you know, that people want autonomy in their work. And I think they do. I think what they say they want as far as autonomy and what actually drives people as far as autonomy, think are two different, very different things. A lot of people say I want autonomy means they really just want to do whatever they want and not work sometimes. Those are not the right fits. But those are people can be. can be changed and kind of get in line with that. But giving people kind of, hey, this is your zone, we call it in our practice, or this is your area, this is your baby. Make sure that this is done really well to our standard, to your standard, things like that. And kind of giving people the, guess, the accountability more than autonomy. But we've really noticed that that really pays off too. Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. Yeah. Giving them some leash, giving them some ownership in that, you know, and I think that goes a long way. mean, I feel like a lot of things that I do in business, I relate back to raising kids, you know, teenagers, you know, it's you want to just lay down the law and be like, here, you can't do this. You can do this, but you can't do all these things. Right. But I found that the more leash I give, I've got all girls more leash. I give my daughters than the better off it generally is, you know, I mean, yeah, they make, still make plenty of mistakes like we all do, but that trust is so important. I mean, if you can go to them and say, you know what, I trust you to make a good decision, then that really weighs, I don't want it to mean to sound bad, but it weighs heavy on people, and they don't wanna just completely defile that trust, because that's such an important thing, drives a lot of actions and thoughts for sure. yeah, that's a great point. What do you see in terms of... you patients, you when they, when you see everyone kind of going rowing in that same direction, how does that look from a patient perspective? What are some of the things that you see or maybe the things that they say when, yeah, when you're, when you're all rowing together. Yeah, you what I notice pretty simply is just, you know, when you when you don't have people, you have a new hire a new front office or something like that, and they're brand new, things like that. We'll get this comment about connect, kind of talk to a manager, kind of talk to a doctor, someone else, you know, things like that. And I get it. And it's not, you know, generally, it's never not not never, but it's not too often, you know. snarky. It's just something they did. They just want to get something done, right? And they feel like they're not getting anywhere with, with a new hire for cause they're slower there, whatever reason. Um, you just don't see that as much. Yeah. everyone's gonna run this up in the right direction. And I think, you know, when people kind of get off the rails a little bit and they kind of maybe aren't, aren't having the mindset or the culture in the forefront, then, you know, we get that sometimes where, they just wanted to speak to a manager instead. Hey, can I solve this for you. How can I fix this? Right. And so people are kind of going out of their way to say, okay, even though maybe I don't know exactly what's going on, I'm going to fix this for you and I'm going to take the bull by the horns and do this. That's one thing I definitely notice when you get everyone rowing or at least the kind of teams like that rowing in the right direction. it's pretty cool to see because the other thing about that is with a new hire, obviously they're not going to make all the right decisions. no one is. But making sure that they have all the tools. I have a mentor that calls it omission or commission, right? You mean, is this uh a sin of omission or that omission? did you not have the resources? Was something omitted or did you commit something? Did you commit a crime, right? But knowing that if it is something they should know that we have a little breakout and we kind of figure it figure it and we write the ship a little bit. if it's a, if it's a co-mission making, making sure that they know exactly kind of where to get that resource, who to talk to, things like that. And making sure it's a kind of a supportive environment too for that. Cause I think the one fear with you said that people definitely notice is when they get afraid of making a mistake, it's because they get afraid of the repercussions, right? And, and, and, and the repercussions don't have to be severe. You know, they really just, they just need to be supportive in our experience. And so that really translates a lot. I feel like that translates a lot into the patient care and kind of getting people behind their zone, their accountability, whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. That's, that is so cool. You know, and that's, you know, I similar goals in my, know, with my agency, he's trying to bring those every member on board and, you know, find those positions where they can make the most impact and really do what they're uniquely qualified to do. And, ah and that's such a cool, know, when you see that on the, certainly on the client patient side, but then, now switching a little bit back to the team side, you know, you see those people and how much more they're able to contribute. So what are you seeing on that front in terms of their job satisfaction? Because I know that's always a challenge, right? In dental, they're being lured away by these other jobs that oftentimes don't require them to have as much responsibility or do as much work. uh And we're for the same, sometimes the same amount of pay. that seems like a big piece uh to that employment. Yeah, just staffing problem. But yeah, what are you seeing on the staff side or the team side when everyone's kind of cohesive like that? Yeah, that's huge point. I think that's kind of the crux of a lot of this, we're talking about too, because if we all had 30 year employees and everyone was going on vacation together and been known each other from the kids and everything, you're going to get that culture baked in. It may or may not be the exact culture you want. Yeah. it's a culture nonetheless, right? And, you know, I think I forget who said it, but, you know, culture is what people do when you're not looking, right? uh Yeah. But. we have a problem in every industry, in mainly in dentistry. I think right now the average clock on a uh team member, I think is like 1.6 years, 1.7 years, something like that. It's really low right now. And we have the same problem everyone else does. We have some team members that have been there three, four, five, seven, eight years, some that are going to be with us for a year or two. And I think our average right now is somewhere in the three year range. um We have a lot of turnover, especially with the younger generation. It's not bad. A lot of them are going back to school. We happen to have two or three that are going back to school right now. I really want to encourage that. think it's great. We've had three or four go to dental school. ton of them go to hygiene school, things like that. And we definitely want to encourage it. They're not going to come stay, work for us just to skip school, right? But they... that becomes a problem with training. if you feel like right when you get someone on board, right when you get there to really understand the culture and drive the culture and kind of bring people up in the culture, they're gone. Right. And so, how do you, how do you create that? And I think this is where really making sure that that culture and the message and everything is just really cohesive. losing a whole staff all at once is rebuilding a culture time. Right. Yeah. moving someone here, someone there, things like that, that can, you when you get those new hires to kind of backfill and replace them, if your culture is strong, and at times it has been for us and at times it has not been, but if your culture is strong, you know, they're going to kind of fit into that, that Disney or that that Ritz Carlton situation, right? I'm not saying that we're that level, but mean, it's a point that, you know, It's easy for them to recognize what's happening here if everyone else is kind of doing it at the same time. And if people are not, they're going to look through. We have a first 400 training because we really make a big push in the two months to really get people on board and be a contributing member of the team. But if they look at all this training that they're doing in the first two months, you know, and they're looking around saying, hey, this person's not doing that this way. They're doing something a little bit different over here, things like that. Then that culture erodes right and then it's like, okay, what is really going on here? And it's you know, it's a little bit stressful on people. So it's uh it's it's definitely something that we talk about all the time because we just have to be ready for it. You can't build a protocol around people just staying in your practice or plan. That's not a strategy. It's not reality, right? They're just not going to do it, right? You just you know, you can have doctors leave sometimes. uh You know that that's that's that's painful, but you gotta you gotta kind of pick up and keep going. And if your doctor team, your doctor culture is really strong, the next person you bring in is gonna kind of see how that works. uh you know, that's something we're constantly doing, but I think building a system around people leaving has been really beneficial for us instead of trying to fight them leaving, right? Because it's just not possible. So uh that's been our strategy and just kind of building the culture and really. making sure it's consistent, we're constantly working on it. And everyone knows that we're constantly working on it too. Yeah, that's a intentional mindset that you adopt. I remember listening to a speaker down at a conference in Vegas and he worked for, I want to say he worked for LinkedIn or one of the big social media companies. yeah, same thing. They would have turnover all the time. But his whole approach was, yeah, it's difficult on the one hand, but on the other hand, you're benefiting from all these people, especially in... you know, over there where he was in Silicon Valley, there was people coming from one tech company to the other with different experiences and they're bringing all that into, you know, their company and, kind of fusing it with different ideas and stuff like that. So I thought, wow, that's a great, great idea or great way to look at it. It's doesn't make it easier. You know, I mean, it probably makes it maybe even harder, but, but I, I love your point too. It seems like it's a, it's a conscious mindset that you're choosing that to adopt every single time, because yeah, you're probably wanting to default and just be like, I'm never, you know, there's, there's never going away, you know, and so that can be discouraging at times. Um, but yeah, how, how, guess my question is that in my head is how often are you seeing doctors just not choosing to deal with that because it's, it does present a challenge. You know, I mean, you're trying to, it takes a lot to train intentionally, build a culture, you know, I mean, it's a lot of four thoughts, a lot of Okay, what's our values? What's our mission? How do we relate that to people and articulate that to our team? Do you see, you find many practices that do not just by they're having, like you said, a default culture, just because they don't really think about it a whole lot beyond? Yeah. I mean, I would say most businesses, most cultures is kind of that unintentional culture, right? Every business, every family, every organization has a culture. It may be what they intentionally built or whatever just kind of happened, Yeah, everyone has a culture. And if that culture is just a big back door of employees that are constantly coming in and out, that's your culture, right? Yeah. That's just way it goes. m But on your question about the doctors, yeah, we talk about this a lot. And I think young doctors, sometimes we don't hire people right out of school, but generally we will, but we have in the past. But generally leadership and kind of taking ownership of certain things is a little bit daunting to doctors, especially in the early years. And I think there's a little bit of this, why do I wanna get into... Leadership, I don't want them to think of me as the boss. I don't want to all these different things Yeah, and it's not everyone's not across the board, but you do get those kind of messages But I think yeah, it's a really important for whether it's a young doctor that's an associate or an owner doctor I've really found that you you really need to set the example and Because they're always gonna be looking at you. Everyone's always looking up and seeing kind of you know, what what you're doing Are you following the protocols? Are you how are you treating the patients? How are you, you know? doing breakouts with the team to kind of correct things that aren't done right, right? Is this a supportive environment? Is that the way I'm gonna teach, is that to coach the person kind of that's, I'm bringing out things like that. So it's really, really hard and I have to remember it too, because there's plenty of times when I'm in the office and I'm back in the office a little bit right now just covering for a doctor. um People come to me, hey, say, can we do it this way or can we schedule something this way? And I'm looking at it going, well, yeah, we can, but that's kind of against everything that we've talked about as our culture and our protocol, things like that. And just having that backbone to say no. And when you know you want to say yes, because you can just kind of work around it. the more times that you change things or have an outlier situation, people start to think that every situation is an outlier. And then all the protocols just kind of go out the window. So I think it's really, really important for the doctors to... m We tell our doctors we want you to clock in and clock out. We want you to kind of take your leave your work home Leave your leave your leave your work at work. Excuse me. Yeah, things like that as much as possible, But You know that doesn't mean that you're not a leader when you got that that degree No matter where you go in which organization you're gonna have a team that's kind of supporting you and so you were the leader know whether you like it or not That doesn't mean you had a call-in payroll or you know go to bank for loans and all these different things. It just means that when you're in the office, you have to look and act and operate like someone, like an example in the practice. Yeah. So if you were someone, you know, I mean, if you're, I'd say talking with a doctor practice owner and they're just, yeah, getting into building a culture, what, you know, just kind of some initial steps, what would you recommend? You know, I know that is, that's a daunting thing. You know, I mean, do you start with kind of a, values, your mission, or just kind of a simple vision of, Hey, this is what I want our practice to be known for. What would you kind of accounts? How would you counsel? uh you know, I can't tell you exactly how to do it. I'm not going to be a, you know, I'm not naive and thinking that I'm a guru in that because I'm definitely not. But, you know, we did the classic kind of start with our values and start with our kind of mission and all that. And it was pretty interesting. was on a we were on an interview with a doctor the other day. And we bring our other partner doctors on the if they're available, can hop in and kind of just do a group with them. It's really nice. And I forget how it came up, but somehow it came up about eh the core values and kind of what it is. And the doctor, our associate doctor just kind of rattled them off. Our break room kind of wall, some things up there and things like that, and just kind of rattled them off faster than I could have. And I was just a little tear in my eye a little bit. was a pretty good moment. But you know, we, you know, What we really tried to do is kind of, you know, whether you call them core values or mission, whatever you want to call them, you know, and I don't get into that all the stuff, but you need some kind of a, an operating system or an operating kind of light, you know, a lighthouse per se. And so we, we chose to kind of pick very unique core values, values, whatever you want to call them. Um, and just kind of build off that. And we, really wanted to kind of stay away from the, you know, integrity, hard work and all the, you know, kind of cliche names. or words that you threw out. you know, we kind of really wanted to focus on just constantly improving. So one of ours is better than yesterday, BTY, and we have emojis for it and everything like that, like the team loves. ah You know, we have balance, of leave the work at work and leave the home life at home type situation, but you need to kind of separate the two as much as possible. It's definitely a core value for us. ah And then we call it power to the pathway. You know, it's a little play on our practice name, pathway and dental. uh But essentially means that this is the protocol and everyone sticks to it. And if we break in the pathway, and we have this a lot of times, if there's a break in the pathway, you know, things go off the rails, right? Even just a little bit. someone's not operating under one strict, you know, kind of way they're supposed to do something, no one else can really support them because they don't really know how to kind of fill in or they don't know what step you're on, things like that. If you're going rogue, you're kind of on your own. And so that's that's kind of what we've designed. um But making sure people understand those. And I think that was the first part of us. And we really wanted a culture that wasn't really just kind of grind and work hard and under all costs. It was really kind of this balance. And so we really wanted to focus on that and making sure people know we get people out at, we say 3.59, you got to end on time and they have it all on the Slack and everything like that. And so that means that if you guys are done, go home. Don't wait around to the last minute. Get your stuff done. Get out there early. you know, a little bit of time at the end of the day after patients. So if you get all that stuff done, get out of here, we don't want people just kind of hanging around and hanging after work and things like that. Cause I think that that builds up, you know, we're just like, Oh, I got to stay in work 30 minutes an hour late. You know, that kind of builds up to sour the culture a little bit. And so we really want, Hey, lights off, shut down, locked door. You guys are out of here, you know? And I think the doctors, we really encourage the doctors just to leave. You guys are done. Your notes are done. The team doesn't want you there anymore. Just get out. I don't care if it's 30 minutes early, just leave. And I think that kind of motivates people. Hey, the doctor left. We got to get our stuff together. Let's go. Let's get out of So that was. I think that shows a lot of trust too, you know, just saying, we, trust that you're going to get your stuff done. We're not going to look over your shoulder the whole time. I mean, they know what they need to do. They have all the checklists and everything like that. they think, know, but you know, developing kind of little culture things. What's important to we just decided what's important to us. What do we want to our team to to kind of feel when they work here? How are we going to talk about this in the recruiting when we're in an interview with a front office, back office doctor, whatever it is, you know, what are the type of things that people would really we think would attract the right type of person for our practice? uh Cause I mean, different core values attract different people, right? And so we wanted, Hey, if this is the way we want to build it, how is this going to attract people into the office? And, um, you know, hopefully get a pipeline of people that really want to work for us because of these cool ways, because of this reputation and things like that. Yeah. Just kind of figuring out what, that is for you. And you got to start talking about it. You guys are doing it. And it's not something that you just put a sign up in the wall in the break room, even though we've done things like that. Um, you gotta, you gotta operate every single day with them. it's, haven't noticed a quick fix, but I think it can be quicker than a lot of people think. You you start to kind of turn around, wake up one day and like, well that happened. That was really cool. That might've been the culture building a little bit. Right. And, um, you know, but again, it's, it's the constant beating of the drum, constant effort that goes into it. And over time it's, it's who you are. Yeah, that's so true. It's so true. And things evolve over time, you know, and you'll create some of the things that I want to point out to is just some of the language that you use that's specific to your practice. You know, I mean, you've got some of those phrases, but as soon as you say those, you know, then it's people understand immediately what you're talking about, you know, and I think that's cool. It's kind of your own little jargon, your own little lingo there, you know, and that's, that's powerful, you know, I mean, people kind of rally around certain things like that. I've always believed that words have carry a very innate power to them, especially when used properly. And that's, that's a great example of how to do that. You know, we've, we do that kind of in my agency. our, you'll see my logo is also a wolf. see my hat in the background. I've always got things all over the place, but we'll use different images of wolves to, showcase some of those traits that we're talking about, whether it's kind of relentless, you know, pursuit of, of excellence and things like that, where it's, they just keep going, you know, you don't get deterred, you know, if things They're not thinking about, I messed up last week or two weeks ago, you know, and they're trying to catch food. You know, they just, they just keep going until they get it, you know, and it's, it's, it's these visuals that make it easier to grasp what you're trying to say, you know, and trying to get across. So I think that's, that's cool. And that's really kind of the fun part too. That's a building the culture. It's hard to, you know, I mean, you want it all ready to go right away, but it's, just takes time. uh it does. It's frustrating because I mean I want I'm a quick start wherever you want to call it. I mean, yeah, it's yesterday I think we all do a lot of us down. It's um, I love what you said about the language, too We've always talked about that, you know, the culture needs a language, right? Yeah, think that's I forget there was a book all about that but there's That's I think that's a really huge part. It's the unique language kind of makes me and makes our team I feel like feel like they're kind part of the secret club, acronyms, know all these, you know, we got all these custom emojis. And I talked about custom phrases, things like that, they're kind of thrown around. The team names all the, you know, all the equipment. So yeah, Daniel and Roberto and everything. So if you don't know the names of this equipment, right, you're not in the loop, right? People want to be in the loop. So it's I really like they said about the language because we I think that's a huge one. It's really is a huge one. when you get people to repeat it and say it, hear them. Or, know, or you just have someone go by and go, well, you know, P2P. Yeah. That's awesome. So let me ask you a few questions about, I mean, we talked about this earlier, but about, you know, incentives, you know, with your team, what are, we talked about, you know, I mean, there's different types, right? People, different strokes for different folks kind of phrase, but what, how would you start that? You know, I mean, if you were counseling or recommending, making a recommendation to another practice owner and they're just getting started doing that, because it does make a lot of sense, I think, you know, logically, yeah, I mean, provide some incentives, they're going to work harder, but. logistically that's not, or in practice that can be a little bit different. What have you found? What are some good ways to just get started and kind of test out the waters with some incentives? Keep your team motivated. You know this again, this is I can tell you what we've done what we've made mistakes and and you know, what's worked a little bit uh But I'm by no means an HR guru and the motivation of the human race ah We have a bonus system, you know, it's essentially just a you know, a profit sharing system. We call it a profit sharing ah Program and the reason we kind of change the name is because I think bonus kind of sounds Like it's willy-nilly, can kind of give it whatever, and the profit sharing is more kind of, hey, we're a group, this is bit of the business. When the business does well, we all do well, things like that. And so it kind of joins them in that row in the right direction, around the same direction as everyone else. Including the owners and the doctors and things like that. So simple, we can get in numbers, but we just set it at basically a goal, obviously a little pad after overhead and I get paid too. And then we, and then. percentage kind of goes in a pot and people split it and things like that. Different people split it to different degrees. We have kind of these mini managers we call point people. They kind of manage zones. They don't manage offices. They'll get a little bit more things like that. And so there is a benefit to kind of move up the ladder a little bit. um One of the benefits I should say, there's a lot of other ones we think. um But that's one thing. That's not unique. That's pretty common across the board. But the one thing we have notice to really, that really works is, you know, we thought about, you know, kind of these long running, you know, additional bonuses where we just get new patients and we can, you know, a certain number of new patients, what we'll do. 50 bucks or whatever it is, things like that. And it really never worked that well. And I don't know why, but I think it kind of went stale to be perfectly honest. And I think things kind of, they run their course, it's like, oh, are we gonna get it or not? And they felt like they didn't have control over it. And I think that was a little bit of a mistake. But I think what we have really noticed a big difference is with these kind of month long or two month long pushes. and kind of switching them up frequently and just based on kind of what the practice needs are. uh Again, I don't think this is earth shattering stuff, but it's just what's worked for us. For example, we've done uh like a social media campaign or something like that. And so uh we've done things where the person who submits the winning social media post, meaning they get the most likes or whatever it is. uh they got a hundred bucks or something like that, forget what it was. But it was kind of like it was their idea. They made the little video, they made the montage, whatever it is. I'm by no means a social media expert. So I'm probably using all the bad terms and all. It sounded like I'm 80 years old. those things have gone really well. People get really excited about them and it helps the practice kind of get new content. Right. you know, are afraid to do that. Most of them don't want to touch social media, so that's a really good idea. Yeah, so those have worked really well. uh And we've done number of different pushes, things like that. And so I think with the scanner thing that we're talking about now, which is going to be kind of our next push for the next month or two, I'm sure there's going to be kind of a competition or something like that around that and seeing who can kind of get the most scans, who can get the best scan, fastest scan, things like that. So, uh you know, I think it's whatever we've noticed that we're working on that's really going to kind of create a little bit of momentum and something we prioritize, create a little competition or a little bonus from it. You know, I think that that's really that's really helped out a lot. Because we can always recycle you can always do that same. You know that same game or competition you can do it six months later, you don't have to do it. You know, never again. Right. For 12 months in a row. Yeah, you know, think that was kind of the ticket and you know, making it kind of this one time thing create a little excitement around it. So yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. know I just, I'm working on that on my side too is just, yeah, what, what is it that, makes these team members excited to come and show up and go out of their way to, really wow a customer and stuff. So it's, yeah, it's, it's a fun game. You know, it's a challenging one sometimes. It's fun. It's fun sometimes. Yeah. But that's just it, though. It's, you know, a lot of people and myself included, you I get find myself getting really frustrated. You know, Jennifer, I think you spoke with two of them at the beginning. She's kind of she runs the show, but she's she's she's a ninja. But we find ourselves kind of in these meetings together, you getting really frustrated that someone's not caring about something as much as we do. And that's naive. You know, and I think that's, need to remind ourselves, know, Hey, this is, these people are, you know, this might be a 25 year old person or, know, a 20 year old person, or I mean, you know, they, they might've had three different jobs in the last 10 years or whatever it is, you know, and, know, to have them kind of come to a business and care about it as much as the owners, it's just not going to happen. And so kind of really looking at, what do they care about? How, how can we get their motivation in lined enough with ours to, kind of help them? you really make a difference in our, in our group and things like that. And so I think that's just it is you kind of playing these little games, but you're really constantly trying to tweak the motivation aspects of the bonuses and the competitions, things like that to get people find out people, what people motivate them. Cause it's not on, Hey, we want to grow to five practices in the next three years. That doesn't motivate people. Right. Right. I don't even know that, you know, Hey, we want to, you know, add another 500,000 to the yearly income or something like that, whatever it is, that doesn't motivate people as much. They don't really care about that, right? How does it really affect them? And so I think finding those things and finding those little fun competitions has been pretty good. So that's a kind of raises another question that I had. What have you found, Stan, as far as going, when you're trying to kind of paint the picture of the importance of marketing to team members and kids, yeah, a lot of times they're not as, they don't look at those numbers and think, oh man, we were down 25 % in new patients this last couple of months. What can we do to get it up? Some of them do, and that's great, but not everyone gets that, you know? And so what, how do you, and also too, I'm gonna lump this in there because I think it's also part of the equation where they don't, some of them feel like marketing is just sales, you know, and they don't want to be selling. So how do you overcome that or how do you talk or address that situation with team members? Yeah, it's, I think, I think that's a big issue. And I also think the issue is they feel like they don't have as much control, right? And so what can I really do in the office to see a boost in new patients, right? You know, you and I know that there's a lot of people can do, but I think they're, they're, they view it a little bit like they're, it's not really in their control, right? They're handcuffed a little bit, right? You know, hey, we can do everything right. We can have the best social media. We can have the, you know, ask for the most referrals. We can. get the most reviews, whatever it is, uh and it doesn't really change it, right? Or then you have an up and down month and it's kind of these ebbs and flows that are completely out of their control, whether it's the economy or politics or whatever's going on at the time of year. that's, think, the biggest push. think that's where finding these little parts and pieces that people care about or can care about and giving them a reason to care about, knowing that those are gonna boost new patients or boost reviews or boost whatever it is. And I think it's just finding these smaller bite-sized pieces. I guess is kind of what I'm trying to say. Like I talked about the social media posts, have review pushes or things like that. And finding these things that they can actually see a benefit to. They can see a change, they can see an improvement on, even if it's not. new patients, you know, we can look at that as an operational side on the leadership side and know that, that push really drove a few new patients or drove some more buzz in the online and whatever it is. but they don't really have an awareness of that. And I think finding someone that loves marketing is really nice. It's fun. But again, then you're holding out for this unicorn person to fill a role in order to get something done instead of building a protocol. around the team that you have and the team that you wanna recruit and kind of motivate in that way. And I think that's kind of the issue, it's, yeah, I agree. I don't like marketing as much, uh not that I don't like it, I just don't understand it as much. em So we have people around us and teams and Jennifer who can kind of take the bull by the horns and do it, but I know enough to kind of guide those competitions and guide those little pushes too. So yeah, yeah. And I think that's, yeah, it's nice to have, you know, certain teams. Yeah. You want to kind of find those people that are excited about that, you know, and can take the reins. like you said, and, and I think too, that's, that is a challenge too, is just in terms of people view it differently. So trying to hope level set a little bit that, you know, marketing and this is the way I kind of describe it too, or where marketing is more really about just serving and educating than anything else. You know, I mean, I think sometimes we get lost, we lump sales and marketing in the same thing. And there's certainly a lot of overlap between those two, but the way I see it is, we're not naive enough to think that we're the best fit for everyone. And so there's a select audience that we're really good fit for and we can knock it out of the park every time. That's really who we're trying to cater to and just educate them on their options. And more often than not, when you... provide that education, you help them see, I can go down this road or I can go down this road or I can not do anything at all. And this is what's likely going to happen. A lot of times they'll make the right decision, I think. It's just, they don't wanna feel pressured or anything like that, obviously. But yeah, I think the more we can lean into that service kind of mindset and just help them understand that, we have the experience and the knowledge and the expertise to provide these recommendations so that they can then make the best decision possible. And then we kind of let them choose, you know, and that's, I've found that worked really well for us. Have you kind of seen anything similar with, with your practices or your patients? Yeah, I mean, it's that's that's just, you know, that's that's culture. That's your culture. think that's it just gets back to that. And it's, you know, your it sounds like you're kind of creating a situation where there's, you know, a little bit of autonomy, right? It's like, hey, you know, this is what we need to get done. And we're going to go over here and do our thing because we got a lot of other stuff to do. Yeah, you're stuff done. And, you know, let me know, need help. But it's I'm not here to babysit. And I think that that's that's your culture. I think that that's that's great. And we definitely are trying to kind of embed that in our culture as well. But yeah, it's a constant battle. All of this is, it's, I hate to say battle, now that's probably not the right word, but it's a constant thing you're working on, right? You're just constantly, don't wanna make it sound like we're against or working against our team. That's absolutely not the case. We're trying to work with them, but, know. it's sometimes you do feel like you're working against them a little bit. getting out of that, that cycle and really seeing the bigger picture and like, you know, and just understanding what human nature is and how people operate and realizing that if something's not going well, you got to look in the mirror first, you got to look at your own culture, how have I been reading this allowed some of these things to happen. Too often, we get a lot of people that you know, something goes wrong and everyone points fingers everywhere. um But if we look in the mirror first, because the easiest thing to fix is ourselves, It's much harder to fix someone else. You know, think we can fix ourselves. That's the solution. Just do it. We'll do that with a snap of the finger, right? Just fix the way you're operating. Yeah, that's so true. I think that's part of the reason sometimes I don't dive into this more is because I know I'm the problem. I know it's usually me that's causing the bottleneck or whatever the kids may be, but that's so true. There's a big, huge trickle down effect once we do and, and it helps to kind of establish that culture that we're always learning, you know, and if you can do that from the top down, then people will realize that it's okay to make mistakes, you know, as long as we're learning from that and moving forward. So As we're kind of winding down, Sten, what would you say as far as action steps or little action items that people are trying to get their team more involved generally? Any last kind of thoughts? I know we've gone over a lot of them, but anything that you feel like we've maybe left out. You know, uh there's a lot that, you know, this could be something Mark and I talk about for hours and hours and hours, but, know, we don't have that much time, but there's a lot of details here. And I think, you know, there's a lot of things that we've done that I think we've worked and kind of getting team on board with some marketing pushes, social media pushes, we have channels and things like that where they're doing it every day. And some of those things that we kind of work. So these little, little nuance tips and tricks and things that really do make a big difference sometimes. But I really do. think that the best thing people can do is just start to lead by example. And then kind of really show people that, if you're doing that, I'm gonna show you how it's done. I'm gonna show you how this accountability thing works. I'm gonna show you how this culture thing works. I'm gonna show you how this autonomy and all these other things, how this operates. I think really just assuming people are gonna fill the role. I think instead of micromanaging, just saying, like you said, Mark, I thought that was a really good point. you just, got my own thing to do. You go do your thing and let me know when it's done. And that's kind of giving people the reins a little bit is huge. And so that would be my suggestion. That's not an easy solution. I know it has not been easy for me. But yeah, they're looking at you as a doctor, as an office leader, as you know, they're looking at you to kind of guide how they operate and what they do. how they view the culture and how they view the systems. Yeah, I know whether you like it or not, that's kind of how they view it. uh Yeah, they're watching everything you do. Yeah. I know, totally. Well, that's a good way to end it because it's, you yeah, your practice is going to go where you go, you know, in terms of how much you want to invest and develop yourself. So yeah, that's great. That's great. Well, okay. If anyone is listening that wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that? Yeah, we're on all the social media and stuff like that. I'll leave my email and all that in there. We have info at pathwaydentalsolutions, or excuse me, connect at pathwaydentalsolutions.com. We've helped some people on a consulting basis a little bit in our office's pathway dental group in Santa Barbara. And you can definitely get ahold of us. I can leave my email as well too, Mark. Okay. Yeah, I'll link that up in the show notes in case anyone wants to reach out and learn more about what you guys are doing or has any questions maybe about this particular topic. yeah, Stan, thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate your time. It was fun. Thanks, Mark. Yeah.