#103: Marketing for Doctors Who Never Needed Marketing… Until Now

In this episode of the Dental Marketing Secrets podcast, Mark Thackeray discusses the challenges faced by doctors who have traditionally relied on word-of-mouth and quality service for patient acquisition but are now experiencing a decline in patient numbers. He emphasizes the importance of understanding market shifts, tracking patient sources, optimizing online presence, leveraging Google reviews, enhancing Google Business profiles, and creating effective referral programs. Mark provides actionable strategies for dental practices to adapt to the changing landscape and improve their marketing efforts.

Takeaways

• Doctors are noticing a decline in patient numbers due to increased competition.
• Understanding how patients find your practice is crucial.
• Content that answers patient questions enhances user experience and SEO.
• Google reviews are vital for credibility and attracting new patients.
• Articulating your practice's strengths can differentiate you from competitors.
• Creating a structured referral program can increase patient referrals.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Dental Marketing Challenges
02:52 Understanding Market Shifts and Competition
06:13 Identifying Patient Sources and Tracking
09:04 Optimizing Online Presence for Patient Attraction
11:53 The Importance of Content and User Experience
14:49 Leveraging Google Reviews for Credibility
18:12 Enhancing Google Business Profile
21:02 Strategies for Increasing Patient Referrals
23:48 Creating a Referral Program
26:44 Articulating Practice Strengths

Transcript

0:01

Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Dental Marketing Secrets podcast. Excited to have you here with me today. My name is Mark Thackeray and we are on episode number 103. And this is titled Marketing for Doctors Who Never Needed Marketing, Until Now. And really the impetus for this episode comes from several clients that have reached out to me. I've had conversations over the past week or so with multiple different doctors who up till now have really never needed to market their practice. They haven't done any specific efforts, you know, other than the traditional, you know, build a website, do good customer service, treat the patients well, that sort of thing. No real formalized campaigns or anything like that, but they've noticed that their numbers are falling. Everything's, they're starting to slip in terms of their market share, in terms of how many patients are coming in. and it's got them worried, you know, and that obviously can happen for a variety of different reasons. Sometimes it's just a matter of, you know, competition that have come in and have really invested heavily into marketing and advertising, or it could just be maybe there's more corporate dentistry is on the rise. So it could be more groups that are coming in and actually done something similar as well. Patients are more apt to do more research nowadays. could be the economy is a big one, right? That's one thing that I've seen a lot of over the last six months is just a general decline in activity. know, search activity, uh general new patients, they're spending more time doing research and thinking things through than they have in the past. And so that's all changed the game for a lot of different practices. So if you are, Doctor and this sounds like you and you've built your practice without marketing in the past Awesome job. Like you've done something right? Obviously, it's been it's worked for you for a long time and that's that's amazing, you know, I'm speaking speaking just thinking of one of the doctors in particular that I've that I've talked to and You know, he's been in the game for 25 plus years, you know, and he's never had to do anything and that's awesome, you know, I mean that's tribute to the type of experience that he's delivering, he and his team are delivering and the quality of care that they take clinically and it's awesome. That's a way to do it for sure. But sometimes things happen out of your control, like a market shift, like new competition moving in. And in this case, it's a little bit smaller town and so the impact of a new competitor that arrives on the scene and is, you know, more actively promoting themselves through ads and things, whether digital or print or whatever the case may be, that can have a major impact, you know, and an immediate impact. Sometimes it takes longer for that influence to be felt, but other times in a smaller town, you know, in that case, it can have a massive, you can feel that wave really quickly, you know, as it comes in and rushes through. So that's kind of what... in particular this doctor's facing, and I've heard that, like I mentioned before, several times over the last few weeks in different parts of the country. And they just noticed that their numbers are dipping and they don't really know what to do. Like I said, they've never done this before. And so one of their tendencies is, well, they just want to jump right to tactics. I just need to start, I need to run some Google ads or I need to run some Facebook or Instagram ads, you know, and that is their immediate. kind of act of desperation because they think that solves the problem. uh And sometimes it can. I'm not saying that it can't, but more often than not, it doesn't. I mean, there's likely uh a series of leaks that they are feeling that need to be addressed before you turn on that faucet. And especially for people that haven't done marketing before, there's several things that I advise my clients to do. in this scenario and we're going to walk through some of those. So the first thing that I would recommend is you have to know what's worked for you in the past. And so there are many practices, especially those in this situation that don't have a great idea of how to find that out. You know, how are people finding out about us? How have they found out about us in the past? Where are they coming from? And so in fact, in this case, this doctor, they didn't know. how to generate a report that showed a referral source or showed where their patients came from or if they even track that, you know, and so that's the first thing that I always recommend to start with because this lets you know, and it's never definitive, right? I mean, there's people that will say one thing and maybe they found you through an ad, but they might just say, I just did a Google search or I looked at the reviews and there's And we, you know, there is tracking in place that can monitor that type of customer experience. You know, that journey with their jumping through multiple things, you know, Facebook and then over to the website and then they do a Google search and then they pick up, they see an ad and they click on, there are, there's tracking tools in place that can monitor that and track that. But they, you know, they cost money. And in this case, if it's a practice that hasn't been marketing that long or at all in the past, it's unlikely. that they have those tools, uh you know, are using or employing those tools for their practice. So in this case, they have to go off what they have, the data that they have. And it's probably not 100 % accurate, but it does give you a rough idea, gives you probably a pretty clear idea in my experience where people are coming from. And so keep with this story, this particular example, I had them walk, they found out how to run the report, which was great. Cause most of the practice management softwares do offer this type of report that's built into their system. And again, whether or not they're tracking it as a team, that's another, another question. But again, you start with what you have. So they ran a report for the last 12 months and they sent it over to me and said, here's what I found. Here's what we have on the report. And they had generated roughly a hundred patients over the past 12 months, a hundred new patients over the past 12 months. So. Not a whole lot every month. You know, you're looking at eight, eight, eight or nine, you know, on average each month. And which isn't a whole lot, but for this practice, that was okay. I mean, sorry. I mean, in the past, it was more than that, but in this, for this practice, it needs to be up actually probably by another 33 % or more. So they want to be up, you know, ideally in that 12 to 15, 12 to 20 range would be a healthier. balance for this particular practice. And so they're falling short on that. But what we were able to review was, okay, so we had roughly, there was about 60, I want to say about 65 % came from Google, you know, and not having run any formalized ads and not really having done a whole lot of SEO either. Again, that's one of the benefits of being in a smaller town is you don't need as much effort to really rank high on those, on SEO. And so that is definitely an advantage. So they had kind of banked on that, or not banked on it, but they've gained from that a number of different patients over the years. In this case, in last 12 months, they had about 60 something patients that 65, 66, something like that, that claimed they came from Google. So whether that was a review or whether they were just searching Dennis near me and it happened to come up in an organic link or a map or, or things like that, that's where they came from. So that's already, you know, aren't that's already the lion's share, right? And then when you broke that down, you looked, we saw, um, patient re just patient referrals contributed another 15 % or so. So not a whole lot really, you know, it's only one, one to two each month at the most. And then some other. kind of miscellaneous. So already you've hit your 80%. And that's kind of what we look at generally 70, 80%. Where does that 70 to 80 % come from? And let's identify that so that we can now really put that under a microscope and see what are the things that we can do to improve that? It's already proven to work. Now what can we do to optimize that? How can we get more juice from the squeeze? So in this case, I walked through several different options for him. We talked about Google, you know, being an organic, there are several different factors, you know, that contribute to ranking, you know, and so we talked about several of those, talked about the importance to have proper content, adequate content that addresses the issues and the concerns and the goals of patients that are searching online. So, you know, it could be something that's if you're trying to attract a more cosmetic type of patient. And then, sorry, my phone has been following me. Apparently I said Google too many times. uh But if you're trying to attract a cosmetic type of patient, for example, they're gonna have different types of questions than someone who's just looking for a new provider. So if they move to the area and they just need a new office as their home office, essentially. Or let's say you're an orthodontist and you are trying to attract more adults who need. straightening, t-straightening, you know, I mean, they need their, their smile corrected and they're likely going to be looking at some type of clear liner. It could be Invisalign, it could be clear correct um because they want a little bit more discreet way to do that, you know, so that's going to be, they're going to have different questions than if it's their eight year old, you know, who's just started. So we want to build that into your website because what that does is it shows Google that you are an authority on the on the topic and that's what they're trying to show, right? I mean, if you take it from Google's point of view, they're trying to show the most relevant response to a question or to a query that people make, you know, in this case, patients make. And if they deem you as the authoritative figure by your content, by your reviews, by, you know, how well you've designed your site to make it readable and scannable, then you're going to, the likelihood of you showing up high on those results goes way up. Right? Because you're playing by their rules. And that's what they're looking for. And really, when you think about it from a patient perspective, that's also what you want to deliver. know, it's frustrating as a patient when you go to a website, let's say they come to, they're searching for, let's keep with that example. They're searching, they're an adult and they're looking for uh orthodontic options as an adult. And so they search online, they come to your website and... It just has a basic overview of what orthodontics is or what they offer as type of the type of services. Maybe there's clear liners, maybe there's not, or maybe clear liners, I'm sure there are. If you're an orthodontist, I'm sure they have some type of clear liner option as well as traditional braces, as well as some of hybrid options. And they might overview it, but as an adult, you might be thinking, well, yeah, but how do I know that's right for me? And that's where a lot of practices miss the mark, is they don't see it from truly from a patient's point of view, they don't step into their shoes and ask those same type of questions and answer those questions. They want that knowledge right away. They don't necessarily wanna have to pick up the phone to call and get that knowledge or to come in the office, right? That's even more of an effort to do that. And they have to take time out of their day and they don't know how long it's gonna be and they're worried about being sold or patronized. There's all these things that come up. And if you can do that, If you can answer those questions and provide that information upfront, more often than not, then you become the incumbent. You become the go-to provider. You become their best option because you're the one who gave them that information. They see you as an advocate. You know, they don't see you as just trying to make a buck because you're gatekeeping all this information and saying, well, you got to call the office to come in for an appointment and then we'll share it with you. know what mean? That's a... kind of a little cringy, you know, to use the words that my teenagers would use. They don't like that feeling. And neither does Google come to find out. They want to, they love people that are willing to share because then it gives them, it makes them look better, right? I mean, they can show answers to these very specific questions sometimes and create a good user experience because then the user goes and they get that question answered and then they realize, oh, that prompts another question and whoa. What do you have on your page? You have an answer to that question as well. And that's the type of experience they're looking at. They monitor when you click on a link. First you go to Google, let's say you type in a search, and then you click on that link, and then they see how long do you spend on that link. And if that engagement is high, if they're getting the answers, if they're seeing, if they're clicking through and maybe they're doing other actions, filling out a form or something like that, Google keeps record of that. And they see that that's a relevant response. That's a relevant search result to show because based on the user interaction. So those are things to consider, right? So that's one of the things that I talked to this doctor about is, okay, let's look at the website. How can we beef that up so that we maintain your current rankings, not only maintain them, but can we increase them? Can we improve them so that we're getting even more people organically to click through your website? It's awesome. Plus when you do it right, Like our recent episode that we talked about with generative engine optimization or GEO showing up in those AI search engine results. Now, when you set it up right, you can show for those. your site can be read properly, you know, and even included in those AI overviews, for example. So that's another way to start gaining some ground and to start increasing your traffic organically. So that's just one aspect of SEO. So in this case, I'm gonna dive into a few other specific examples that are unique to this practice, but they may also apply to yours. So another thing that we looked at was they've been in business for a long time, but they still have less than a hundred Google reviews. And I know that they've treated thousands of patients. So this is a very big missed opportunity. And when I dug a little deeper, I noticed that one of their most recent reviews was five, six months ago. And at Google, that's not a great sign. You know, they want to see someone who is consistently generating new reviews because that is a signal that patients are going there and they are engaging with the practice, right? And when they're good reviews, when they're four or five star reviews, then that's a stronger signal back to Google to show more uh of your practice in their search results. It's so important. I love to share it this way. It's one thing if I... stand up in front of you or if I get in front of you and tell you how awesome I am, that's one thing, right? But when three or four other people do, they stand up and tell you how awesome I am, that makes a much bigger impact than if it's just me telling you how great I am. And that's what I think of as reviews. That's how I compare reviews. When you get other people, all your patients to start on their own time, you know, they go in, they type in a review and they say how awesome you are. all the great things that you and your team are doing, that is a much more powerful signal than you on your website and your content saying how great you are, right? They both are important, you know, for different reasons, but those reviews from your patients matter a whole lot. Not only in terms of ranking, they affect your ranking, but they also, they affect your conversion. So what I mean by conversion is someone is, let's say they're searching online, they type in Dennis Near Me in their maps, in their Google Maps, they wanna see you know, based on proximity where the nearest dentist is or the nearest office is. And then they start looking at the reviews, okay? So they start reading through the reviews, because they want to know, well, what have other people thought of this? And we do this all the time. It doesn't matter if it's a restaurant or a new home improvement tool that I was just looking at. I wanted to see, people using it for the same reason I wanted to get it, you know? So that's what patients are looking for. So it can help tremendously when they see man, these ones had 10 new reviews yesterday or 10 new reviews in the last couple of weeks. There's a lot of people that are going to this office and having a great experience. So I can have a great experience as well. It lowers the pressure, not the pressure, but it makes it more believable, more credible uh to go to your practice. So that's another thing that we looked at was Google reviews. How can we bolster their reviews? to improve our rankings and to improve our conversion. uh So that's the other thing that you wanna look at. When you're reviewing, I mean, in this case, you're trying to bolster how you're ranking on Google, that's another great place to get started because it's easy. It's something that you can do right away and you can get your team involved. It's just start to build out a process uh on how to do this. And so we've created some basically a game plan, a playbook. a Google review playbook or a review playbook because it can be applied really to any other uh review platform as well. And that's another topic because it is important to to get reviews on other platforms, but we'll dive into that in another episode. But yes, we have a playbook if you want to reach out to us and we can we can share that with you. um There is so that's those are some things that you want to look at. The other thing that we mentioned to is your Google business profile. So many times. What happens is that someone will set up a profile. You have your place of business, in this case your office, and you set it up once and you don't really ever look at it again. You kind of have crossed that off your list and is now, who knows how many years ago that you did that and you haven't touched it ever since. it's, I would be willing to bet that it is not fully optimized in the way that Google would like it to be. know, so if you want to show up, more and more often or higher in those search results, updating and optimizing your Google business profile is a great thing to do. Because then again, it shows Google exactly what you're about. It shows the specific services that you offer. It shows your hours, which has a big impact on when you show up in those search results. And it shows, really kind of gives a little bit of an insight into what type of practice you are. And that's where you can build, kind of make your case for why people should come to you. So there's several things. There's photos, there's videos, there's specific to service descriptions, and you can even add a little tracking code to your website to see, okay, are people coming specifically from your Google Business profile, or are they doing it through other means? So there's lots of little things that you can do there to improve that profile performance. So those are all three different things that you can do ah if you're trying to optimize better for Google organic search, right? Is to capture more of that organic traffic, is looking at your website. You can look at content that's relevant, content that answers questions that people have ah and make it, you wanna make it specific to your audience and to your area. So you'd wanna include. keywords in a natural way, not in a keyword stuffing type of way, uh or sound like a computer type of output, but in a natural conversational way, the city that you're really trying to rank for. So that's, in addition to that, there's other things too. mean, we could get, there's a whole topic on SEO, you talk about the technical on page SEO, there's off page SEO, there's so many different things, and I'm not gonna get into that, but those are some. some basic ones that you can do now and get started with. Really anyone can do this without a whole lot of experience. You just think of, in this case when you're thinking about content, what are the questions that people ask me all the time about, in this case, clear liners or treatment for adults or could be if you're cosmetic, porcelain veneers. What are the questions that I get asked all the time or have been asked in the past? that would be helpful for someone to know before they make a decision. And then just make a list, answer those questions, and add them to your website. Or you can make a video. Just pretend like you're talking with a patient and have an assistant ask you these questions and you just run through them. And just make it, doesn't need to be fancy. You don't need professional equipment. Just your phone, your smartphone's gonna be great. Make sure the audio's clear enough to hear and the lighting's okay. and you are really honestly good to go. So don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Okay. But again, if you need some help, we're here for you. Just reach out and happy to guide you or be a resource or we can talk about if you want us to work for you. You know, I mean, as a private client, that's also an option as well. So that was the first case. And the second thing we talked about based on the breakout was patient referrals. You know, that attributed for another 15 to I can't remember what the exact number was, 15 to 18 % of their new patients over the past year. Now to me, this was a big opportunity because when I see that number and it's low, one to two, two at the most per month, that's a huge opportunity because for a lot of practices out there, referrals represent at least 30%, sometimes up to 60 to 70 % of all new patients. And that's a, for those that... really get behind this idea of referral-based practice, that's what can happen. It's not unheard of to, in this case, for this practice where they're only generating a couple a month to four to five to six times that amount, just with a formalized approach. And when I mean formalized, it means an approach that you do on a consistent basis. So you look at it. uh As like an engineer would and you take this problem, you're you know You're trying to get more referrals and then you zero and you say okay. How can I break this down into manageable steps? There's a there's also a TV show called how it's made I'm not sure if it's still on or not But it's it's really informative when you're looking at something like this because it it breaks down the process of say making a uh Pencil, know something that you just take for granted and it goes step by step by step by step by step and each step is only responsible for that one thing, you know, and then it moves on to the next. But that's such a good visual of what we're trying to do with your marketing, you know, in this case with your referral generation campaign. So what can we do, little steps here, here, here, here that lead to big results in the long run. Yeah, and this one is one that isn't necessarily, you're not gonna see, you know, 30 new referrals in the first month. type of thing, but it does start to build and compound over time as you do this more consistently. And one of the things that I like to do is, and it's a great exercise for you and your team, is to really sit down and think, what do we do really, really well in our practice? Like, why do people choose us? Honestly, there's several options, and I give this example all the time, but when I go to my dentist, I drive him to my dentist, he may be two and a half miles away. I literally pass a dozen different options that I could go to. And so it's a great exercise to think, well, why on earth would our patients pass all these competitors and choose our office? What do we do? And in what ways do we really knock it out of the park every single time for our patients? And really double down on that. what I mean? You gotta play to your strengths. And if you can articulate that in a compelling way. It makes it so much easier for people that are researching and they're comparing side by side this practice versus that practice because not a lot of practices do this well. To be honest, most of them are very cookie cutter. They look at someone else's website and they pretty much copy what's on their website and they might tweak a few things. But overall, from a patient perspective, it's not that different. Spoiler alert, it doesn't really change all that much. So you gotta think like a patient would and you know if they're comparing different options what's going to really stand out to them? What's the most important, what are the most important drivers for our patients? Maybe that's that we are and don't give me just it's a great we're great at customer service you know these platitudes that you can spit out those are they're just their platitudes that's where they everyone says them and everyone should be able to say them right if you're in business. I mean that's a of course Statement like of course everyone says that but if you do if that is what your your strong suit is then you you you better be able to articulate Exactly how that is to really? Demonstrate how you do that, you know in a tangible way, you know, so I mean if it is patient comfort What does that look like that? Well that looks like hey, we have we have several different types of of uh Sedation it's just to make you feel comfortable. We have nitrous. We have IV You and you spell that out for them. that means that if, let's say you're just a little nervous and you don't really want to do full, we have nitrous oxide that you can take just a little laughing gas to take the edge off. That's all you, that's really for most of our patients, that's all you need, but that's just enough to get you to feel comfortable. Now that you're in the chair and now you're able to come confidently to the dental office, look at what that does for your overall health. Not only are you more confident in yourself because you're doing something that you know you need to do, but your health goes way up. You're able to, eliminate a lot of these problems from becoming major problems. They're just little issues right now that we can resolve right away. It's saving you all this money and you really try and spell out what that looks like for them. Or in case maybe you do really well, you cater to uh pediatric, your pediatric dentist or maybe in the ortho space, you deal with a lot of kids that are just, they're nervous, man. They're scared to come. And so same thing. It's like, well, We cater to those, we do really, really well for those people that honestly, they are just so deathly, they're terrified, they're petrified of coming into the practice. Here's how we do that. And you spell it out, you lay it out, you walk through what it takes, when as soon as they walk in the door, what do you do to make that experience so amazing for them? And then as a parent, you're thinking, man, yeah, all this guy said, hey, we work with kids. And this one goes into detail step by step on how they do that. What's the obvious answer? Which practice are you more likely to go with? And the answer is the one that takes the time to spell out exactly what you're gonna do for them. And that's the truth. So if you want to, it's a great exercise to go through with your team, like I mentioned, what do we do really, really well? And then how can we dimensionalize that for our patients so that when we tell them about it, they can visualize it, they can feel it. I mean, that is... It touches something, it's an emotional reaction. It's not just, okay, yeah, I've heard that before, but it's wow, okay, yeah, that makes sense. So that's one thing to do. But in addition to that, as we're talking about referrals, one thing about referrals is that you can't just leave them to chance. I mean, you can, and most practices do, and they still get some, which is great. And that's awesome. We love to just not have to do anything and they just come flooding in, right? But the reality is you could be getting a ton more referrals if you have a proactive formalized approach. And I've been doing this long enough that I've seen that and I've said that so many times, but I'm never, I'm always amazed how many more referrals people get when they do this. It's so, so even myself, like there's things that me and my team sometimes we forget to do and we're like, oh, we should do that. as soon as we do that. You know, on a consistent basis, we start to see referrals and it's like, oh, I shouldn't be so surprised, but it's cool. It's just, it's the magic of it, right? And it speaks to a lot of the experience that you're already delivering. You know, I mean, these are people that have trusted you with their care and it's not, I mean, this is something that's uncomfortable for a lot of people. When your hands are in your mouth, like that's just, okay, that's just not a great, great environment for a lot of people, you know? And when you have someone that trusts you to do that, time and time again, that's powerful. And that means that they're likely someone who is willing to share uh either a good review or go even further and say, hey, you you mentioned that you are struggling with your, you don't really like your dental office. You should try these guys. You know, I've been going there for years. Here's what I love about them. Just give them an option. Just go see them, you know, no pressure. Just go see them, see how you feel and make it easy for them. Okay, so when I was talking to this doctor, that was one thing that we looked at as well. you wanna identify what works really well, or your strengths, how can you dimensionalize those by being very specific on the actions you take to realize that outcome. And then look out what are ways that we can plant the seed for referrals. And it's so funny, not funny, it's kind of funny. Really just sad, more than, when you get these practices that patients call up and say, hey, I just wonder, are you guys accepting new patients? You know, I was like, of course we're accepting new patients. know, almost every practice out there is we're accepting new patients, but the patients themselves don't realize that. The people don't realize that half the time. Because you're not doing a great enough job, communicating that to them. You know, so there's a lot of different ways. You know, my team and I have come up, we've really, we've, produce this what we call a referral map. And it just walks through all these different opportunities to ask for a referral in a very non-pushy, natural, organic way. You know, from the check-in to the gift bags to a monthly email to follow-ups to, I mean, there's so many different ways. And when you build that into the type of practice that you are, that you are, we are a referral-based practice that has a huge effect, you know, and people, patients in particular, start to take notice of that and they will, they will start, you will condition them to send you more referrals. Like that's just how it is, you know, and you, you help, articulate that in a good way, you make it easy for them, you reward them through praise and recognition and other ways and people start, their, behaviors change. You'll be amazed. It's awesome. So cool. So it's, it's really kind of putting together a plan of how can we do that? How can we build that out? So that's the last thing that I talked to him about was just uh how do we create a referral program that we can use on a regular basis that makes it easier for people to refer. And the last thing about that, sorry, that I failed to mention is that we're in the process of creating a unique offer that's only available for referrals. It's exclusive. It's not something we broadcast out to everyone and then. or say that, this is only for you and then give it to everyone else in sight. No, it's exclusively for referrals. Now, what does that do? That does, it gives your patients something to share with people that they know and not just say, hey, go see Dr. Mark, he's awesome, you need to go see him. But they have some, you know, a specific invitation, like, hey, you know what, go see Dr. Mark, it's no risk, it's actually a complete, uh risk free, you he has a guarantee that if you should go in for a cleaning to try him out and you're unhappy with the cleaning, he'll totally refund your cleaning. Like no questions asked. He just wants to make sure it's a good fit on both ends, but he does this so that yeah, there's not pressure. There's not any weirdness there, you know, and actually he'll even give you a, a bag of mini Cadbury eggs because everyone loves those, especially him. You know, I mean, just something, a unique offer that again, if you're thinking strategically, it lowers that barrier to resistance and makes it easier for the patient to take them up on that. So be thinking along those lines as well, coming up with a unique offer that you can give your patients as ammunition to share with their family and friends. So those are just three different opportunities. uh Or three, sorry, just two. I just talked about Google and patients. So I'm losing my head a little bit actually. uh No, I'm just, so there's two opportunities right there that you can use to help build your practice, especially if you haven't done any marketing right ever before, know, formalized marketing. So those are great ways to start, but obviously you wanna cater it to what you found in your research. So if you did that report, if you ran some type of report in your practice management software, you identified what's worked in the past, maybe it's insurance-based. You know, you're getting a lot of referrals from insurance or maybe it's uh maybe it's a mailer or maybe maybe you have done something uh and you want to leverage that or maybe it's, you know, something and it's cool too because if you get into this, let's say, let's take patient referrals, for example, you dive into that even further and filter down. You're going to see that there's certain people that refer way more often than others do. So you're going to see a breakdown of those people too. And there's that you can. really get into this and get really into the nitty gritty, but it's also really powerful if you do. Let's say if you have a team member that wants to dive really deep and drill down into this, uh then they can look at that and say, okay, now who in particular have been our biggest advocates, our biggest ambassadors, if you will, how can I make sure that I'm staying in front of them? How can I make sure one, that they know how much we appreciate them and we love them and we love their referrals? And two, how can I make it even easier for them to promoter office and then they can be the first ones that you reach out to on a regular basis. You'd want to do, I always recommend reaching out to your entire patient base because you don't really know who's in a position right then to refer someone, but absolutely want to take care of your big time referrers. So those are a couple different options. It's always best to track first and foremost. So whether you're tracking where patients are coming in, or if you're tracking referrals, those things that you keep track of and you report on. let's say you keep track of referrals and now you bring that up in your regular huddles, your weekly huddles, your monthly huddles, meetings with your team, things like that. Once they see that you're focused on this and you wanna put time and attention towards this, they're gonna start to internalize that as well. So if you're gonna be looking at it every single month, and that expectation is there, ah then yeah, it's gonna start changing some behavior as well. So this is just kind of a basic guide, but ah there, just was, like I said, the reason for this episode, I've been asked several times in the last few weeks to what would I do in their shoes if I hadn't done any marketing before and now I recognize that I need to start doing some, what would I do? So that's what I recommend. Hopefully this helps. ah If you have any specific questions, please reach out. Like I said, I love to be a resource. love to just, you know, if nothing else, uh yes, we accept private clients, but if nothing else, I'd love to just point you in the right direction, you know, give you some, show you what's kind of been working on our end. And if you want to do it on your own, absolutely do it. You know, that's awesome. Or if you need some help, we're here for you too. Just email us, mark, M-A-R-K at markthackeray.com. I'll make sure that's in the show notes. And thanks again for listening. If you have any specific questions in addition to this, let me know. Or that might make a good podcast episode, love to hear that as well. And be good as always you guys. Get ready for the holidays and we'll talk to you soon.