The Bone Coach Osteoporosis & Bone Health Podcast

#9: PEMF Therapy & Osteoporosis. As Effective As Fosamax? Risks, Benefits, Research Studies, How To Use. Interview w/ Dr. William Pawluk + BoneCoach™ Osteoporosis & Osteopenia

• Kevin Ellis

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BoneCoach™ Osteoporosis & Osteopenia - In my interview with the foremost authority on Magnetic Field Therapy, Dr. William Pawluk, we discuss Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Therapy (PEMFs) and the benefits to our health, our bones, and osteoporosis.

=>>FREE Stronger Bones Masterclass (Gain Access Now!)
=>>FREE 7-Day Osteoporosis Kickstart
=>>Apply to join the Stronger Bones Solution Program w/ the BoneCoach™ Team

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Topics Covered
4:32 - Who is Dr. William Pawluk
5:48 - What are Pulsed Electromagnetic Fields (PEMF)?
8:39 - Magnetic fields can travel through our bodies and bones. These fields are safe and non-toxic.
10:48 - With PEMF’s, the magnetic fields move in and out of the body, and it’s varying in intensity and time. It’s dynamic.
11:06 - Inverse square law. A magnetic field drops off in intensity very rapidly as you move away from the source of the stimulus.
11:38 - Why all magnetic fields aren’t bad. EMF’s vs. PEMF. PEMF’s don’t heat tissues. That’s why there is no risk.
15:14 - What happens to our cells when we expose them to PEMF’s? What benefits come from exposure?
18:45 - Specifically as it relates to osteoporosis and low bone density how can PEMF help?
19:44 - PEMF helps heal non-union fractures.
22:14 - PEMF’s decrease osteoclast activity (bone breakdown) and increase osteoblast activity (bone formation)
23:44 - What do the research and studies say about PEMF therapy and osteoporosis?
27:22 - Study. PEMF’s as effective as Alendronate in treating osteoporosis?
29:35 - What Dr. Pawluk has found in his clinical practice by tracking patients with osteoporosis who are using PEMF?
30:05 - PEMF is not a standalone therapy. It’s a complement to your other efforts (i.e. nutrition, hormones, etc.)
31:38 - How do you actually use a PEMF device to reap the benefits?
34:03 - The higher the intensity the better.
36:10 - What is the right intensity of PEMF treatment for osteoporosis?
36:55 - Minimum intensity 70 gauss. 500 gauss is ideal but cost of device may be prohibitive.
40:57 - Duration and frequency of PEMF therapy for osteoporosis treatment. 30min-1hour 2X day.
43:36 - Identify the cause of your osteoporosis and whether or not you’re actively losing bone before you start treatment.

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Resources Mentioned
Find all resources mentioned and show notes @
=>>bonecoach.com/pemf

Credits
Music from https://filmmusic.io "Werq" by Kevin MacLeod https://incompetech.com)License: CC BY (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0)

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spk_1:   0:05
Welcome to the bone code show dedicated to helping you understand all things related to diet, lifestyle, bone health and how you can live and thrive with low bone density and osteoporosis. I'm your host. Kevin Ellis, certified health coach, health and wellness speaker and, above all else, your bone coach. After being diagnosed with osteoporosis in my early thirties, I transformed my health through diet and lifestyle and now help my clients and community members do the same through my online coaching practice. Bone coach dot com Look, there are no quick and easy cures for low bone density, but the choices we make every single day can have a powerful impact on our bones, our health and our general well being. I'll share the research, interview the experts and help you figure out how to get the conditions right in your body so you can better your bones through diet and lifestyle. Short disclaimer. I'm not a medical doctor, and this show should not be considered medical advice. Always consult with your health care team before making medical decisions and changes to your diet and lifestyle. But that being said, let's get on to the show. Welcome, welcome to this episode of the Broncos podcast Kevin Ellis here. In this episode, I'll be interviewing Dr William Wallace, one of the world's leading experts in pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. That's PMF therapy. But before we get into today's episode on PMF therapy and osteoporosis, I want to encourage you if you haven't done so already, to head over to bone coach dot com and sign up for the free seven day osteoporosis kickstart. This is seven e mails that basically walk you through the foundational pieces for getting started on your bone health journey. In each of those seven e mails, you'll learn something new. Day one. I'll share the single underlying theme I found in each of my private clients, most successful on their bone Health Journeys Day to You learn six helpful tips for anyone struggling with osteoporosis. Whether you're newly diagnosed or you've had low bone density for a long time, Day three you'll get a really great overview of the different types of osteoporosis medications. I know this can be confusing for people. It was confusing for me when I first started out, and I also talk about the risks, side effects considerations and why I chose to forego them. Day four, I'll give you a super simple overview of how our bones work and why you need to know this day five, I'll talk about the different osteoporosis causes, which are important to rule out and some of the test to help rule them out. Day six, you'll learn how to identify for actively losing bone because if you are, you need to know, and you need to find out why. In day seven, I'll teach you three simple steps for overcoming your health challenges, and I'll teach you how not to fail when setting goals to better your bones. This is incredibly valuable information that took me weeks and months to put together. The best part is, though, it's absolutely free, and you'll have this information in your inbox to reference at any time, including at the doctor's office. So if you're newly diagnosed, or if you've had low bone density for a long time and the conditions still aren't right in your body for optimal bone health, pause this podcast episode. Head over to bone coach dot com and sign up for the free seven day osteoporosis Kickstart. You'll be glad you did now back to this episode and pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. Nothing happens in the body without an electromagnetic exchange between cells. Electromagnetic energy controls our chemistry. In short, puls electromagnetic field therapy is the use of an external magnetic field on the body as a means for improving cellular function, increasing circulation, enhancing muscle function, decreasing inflammation, improving tissue healing, oxygenating the blood and even bone healing. By the end of this episode, you'll understand what P. M. F is the difference between E. M S and P. M s, the benefits of PMF therapy on our bodies and our bones. What the research says about PMF in osteoporosis and will even talk about specific devices, intensities, times of use and so much more. All of this will be shared by today's guest, Dr William Pollack. Dr. Pollack is a board certified physician and a practicing holistic MD. Near Baltimore, Maryland. He's considered the foremost authority on pulsed electromagnetic field therapy in North America, especially as it relates the holistic pain, management, healing and regeneration. He's the author of the most comprehensive book on healing with PMS called Power Tools for Health. He's also written chapters and scientific books and many articles. He's the owner of Dr pollack dot com, the host of the Pain Solution Summit, and he recently received the A C. I Am Lifetime Achievement Award in 2019 for his 30 years of work with magnetic field therapy. For this episode, you confined all of the resource is mentioned show notes, studies reference and more information about Dr Pollock over a bone coach dot com forward slash p e m f. With that being said, let's get on with the interview. Dr. Pollock, welcome to the show.

spk_0:   5:28
Thank you, Kevin. Thanks for inviting me to, uh, talk to your tribe. Your audience. I appreciate the opportunity to dispel a bunch of myths and provide people with some good information about another solution for their problems.

spk_1:   5:44
Well, good. So for those who are not familiar, can you explain what is P. M. F?

spk_0:   5:51
Sure, the germs stands for pulsed electromagnetic fields. So the different kinds of magnetic fields and you don't have the magnetic fields from the magnets that you put on a fridge, their whole paper up on top on a fridge, schedules and whatever. Those are what I call static magnets, they're static they don't move. Once the magnetic field is generated, it's there permanently of another term for them is permanent magnets. Now, if you take a magnetic field and you start to move it either an intensity and frequency moving back and forth. So that's called a dynamic field or time varying. My gonna feel so a static field is not time varying pastilles. Electromagnetic fields are very and make time varying magnetic fields. So basically, that magnetic field this policy. So both our E M efs is after magnetic fields, although the static maggots are really not electromagnetic percent because they're not powered by electricity, essentially some some form of electricity. So it's actually possible to make night feels our pulse by virtue of the fact that you're driving electricity primarily through a wire. So whenever you have electricity conducted in a wire, it produces a magnetic field that's called the right hand rule. So the Curtis blowing in this direction and the magnetic field is going in this direction, perpendicular to the flow of the electrical field or the electricity. That magnetic field, then, is to be huge, depending on the amount of charge flowing in that wire, so That's an electro electromagnetic hell. Now it could be a D C. Field. I was D C current, which means it could be only on one frequency, or it could be in multiple frequencies and it could be turned on and off. It could be made stronger and weaker and strong. What we call modulated so many ways of conforming or developing a magnetic field. But essentially, it's a policy field. The advantage of a pulsing field in a wire that's conducting electricity is that you can shield the wire and then the body does not does not have to be exposed to the electrical field, which can be electrocuting overstimulating from an electrical perspective, like a burnt issue. The advantage of a magnetic field is even though you shield the wire, the magnetic field still going through the shield. Let's happen to be a wire, a metal shield. But if he's going to, it's going through the shield and the magnetic field goes through the body and into the body, as if the body wasn't even there. So that was You have a magnetic field here and you put a body in between. Magnetic field is gonna go through the body all the way through. If you remove the body and measure the field out here again with the body there or without the body there, the magnetic field is the same, so it doesn't matter whether it's a shirt. Doesn't matter whether it's skin, muscle, bone, brain fat thanks and no difference to a magnetic field. It goes right on through. That's why they're such amazing technologies because they're completely safe. They're not toxic. They don't burn, they don't hurt. You barely can feel them most of time. Factor kind of feels that we're probably gonna be talking about most of time. Can't feel it is doing anything. Yeah, he said. It's working. As the field passes through the body, there's a magnetic field passes through the body. It could create all sorts of changes in the tissues, and that change in the tissue is related to the development of charge in the tissue. So another body, the cells of the body. We say that the bodies what 75% water? What's not water? It's electrolyte soup. And because electrolytes soup, that means that ions that has ions that has charged and the prince, one of the principals of physics is when you move up a magnetic field through charge, you begin to stimulate the charge. So our golden with magnetic field therapy is to increase the charge production in the tissue, which then activates also a bio. All sorts of biochemical cellular tissue changes in the body, which produce the effects that we're looking for, whatever those effects might be, including healing tissue, including increasing a teepee and tissue. So a T P is the energy molecule of the South. So he increased amount of A GP and this out. What is the cell do? So it's a squirrel running faster in the cage. It's you lifting more being of the lift more weight because your muscles could work longer or Carter recover faster. So those were all of the basic effects of what a P E. M. F is and why we're interested in doing work. There was therapy healing work with PMS. They do a better job than static feels so in a static feel. If you're relying on the motion of electrons and other molecules in the body, so therefore it's basically one directional with pulsed magnetic fields. Magnetic field is moving in and out of the body as varying an intensity and time and so on. So it's much more dynamic, Do you hear is a lot less energy, and it's much more dynamic on one of the principles that we're going to discuss is the whole idea of, um, the inverse square law or the Inverse Cube Law, which means that a magnetic field drops off in intensity very rapidly. As you move away from the source of the stimulus. Same thing applies to, Light said. They applies to heat and cold and sound and lasers, and, you know, off all of those electromagnetic spectra phenomena all have that inverse square law applying to them. And that's very important when it comes to determining which type of magnetic field is goingto work for the for the goals that were aiming it for

spk_1:   11:38
now, I know something that people are thinking right now is a lot of people are familiar with the negative effects of certain magnetic fields. They may even think all magnetic fields are bad for us. Can you explain why there might be confusion here and and we're the majority of the risk lies when it comes to certain magnetic fields.

spk_0:   11:56
Sure, I think that's a key distinction. I wouldn't get that out of the way really quickly. There are E EMFs, which are, in a sense, electromagnetic fields, but I consider a EMFs to stand for environmental magnetic fields. And then there are PMF. Switch your pulse magnetic fields, and basically they're designed for therapeutic purposes. They're not designed for communication, cellular communication or four rotors or for or heating, for that matter. So a microwave oven is producing microwaves, which is electromagnetic fields. But those microwaves are high intensity, and they're absorbed by the tissue to heat whenever we're putting in the microwave. So PMS are not designed to heat. PMS are being below a heating threshold fundamentally, which makes them extraordinarily safe. So environmental magnetic fields are absorbed by the body. If you have a soft one to your head, let's say you put Um ah, software that's not working up against the year and you hold it there for a few minutes. Will your ear turn red? Probably not. Turn on the cell phone and hold it to your ear with a community with communication going on in the self music playing or a signal talking, et cetera. You take it away from the ear and the ear will be read. So why does the ear turn red with it on versus with it being turned off? I like an airplane mode. The difference is they make microwaves being emitted by the phone and the fact that the microwaves air coming from the environment being consolidated and condensed in this receiver, if you will, that's the phone and then re transmitted in the phone so that you could hear it or watch something that's ever and that might those microbes that become absorbed in the tissues they're extremely tiny frequencies. And because they're so tiny and because of the intensity, they tend to be absorbed very rapidly in that tissue. Therefore, causing heating P. M s are extremely long reforms, So Ah, a cell phone signal. A WiFi signal is in the gig over its range typically. So that's billions of hertz, um, frequencies that are 100 met megahertz. So 100,000 hertz are very long wavelengths. So 100 megahertz frequency wave is three meters long as both a microwave, uh, frequency wave, which is going to be basically millimeters micro meters long huge difference. The longer the way form, the less absorption there is in the body. Therefore, the field passes completely through the body. In fact, theoretically goes on to infinity. Even though it drops off very rapidly, it essentially effectively goes to infinity. But they don't heat. So because they don't heat, there's no risk. That's the difference.

spk_1:   15:01
I think that's a really important difference. And so so basically there are E m s that are bad, but PMS are good, especially in the sense that we're talking about them today to

spk_0:   15:12
correct for hitting purposes.

spk_1:   15:14
So what happens to our cells when they're exposed to PM absent and what benefits concomitant rum exposure ourselves to B. M s.

spk_0:   15:23
The list is very long. Um, I have ah book power tools for health where a lot of the different actions of magnetic fields are described in the book and there are about 25 of them, and we don't have time to go through all the different mechanisms. But the most important mechanisms are increases in circulation, reductions of inflammation, reduction of swelling in the tissues, decreasing pain, and the stimulation of healing processes Region. Another is regenerative processes. It stimulates our name. D n A. It stimulates mitochondria. Which of the South the 80 p producing cells in the structures within the cells of the body. All the cells in the body have made a convert. We need those because that's the energy of the South. The South can't work without having energy in the 80 p. Produce energy and PMS stimulate the production of a teepee. So all across magnetic field stimulate stem cells. So stem cell stimulation is critical for regeneration. Now you can't grow a garden in a swamp. You have to clear the swamp. You have to make the environment for stem cells to grow into for healing toe happen for new tissue to regenerate, you have to clear the environment to make it a healthy, vibrant environment for regeneration to happen in and basically Pete, let's do that. So I'll give you an example. Uh, my wife broke a little toe, so the toes out like this. So as a medical doctor, have you working ers and done primary care for 50 years. Now, that is what a clear sign of what a broken toe. So the standard medical approach for this is your buddy, take the Toshi put bandage on the toe, buddy. Tape it to the next. Tow the next healthy toe or even triple it up, etcetera. Buddy buddy, take the toes and they put somebody in a flat shoe. A platform shoot piece of wood, basically with it with a strap around that you could walk it. But that keeps your foot flat so you don't bend that toe because if you bend the tow, you banned the fracture, right? You want to bend the toe, you gotta keep it flat because it won't heal to keep bending it more hell. So what we did is we start her on a portable magnetic system. She wore 24 7 and we're right after the factor happened. Bruising, swelling, pain, young God ers. Typical things. Putting platform shoe magnetic therapy for 24 hours. Next morning, she woke up. No swelling, no bruising, no pain. Hey, how are you? She continued the platform shoe for another 24 hours. 24 more hours of simulation and she walked a mile in tennis shoes so tennis shoes will bend flex, right? She continued treatment for another 24 hours with the magnetic field. The following morning, she walked in, uh, three miles in tennis shoes, and that was it. She stopped the shoes and she's fine. I don't know what she actually could. We didn't X ray. She didn't allow me to x ray so she could have had a dislocation. Mind small little fracture dislocation. It's a possibility, but that's clearly a sign of least a significant dislocation. That's fine. She's fine. That's what magnetic fields could do. So that's an example of picking on the swelling. Taking down the bruising, starting the unique process of the tissues, removing the pain, allowing you to function.

spk_1:   18:45
That's a great example, and specifically as it relates to the bones and bone health and osteoporosis. Low bone density. What can P E. M. F do? Why would somebody with osteoporosis want to look too p m a therapy as and to find benefit for them?

spk_0:   19:03
So I realized this a long time ago. I've been working with my God. It feels now for about 30 years, and after 25 years of working with magnetic fields, I was encouraged by tons of people to say you got to write a book because there's nobody else is as good an authority on this subject as you are. And even though I had a website that had tons of information on it, it's not a book. So finally we went ahead and did the book. But early in the process of working with magnetic fields in understanding how they work, I move that being the federal government, the FDA, Food and Drug Administration had approved devices PMF devices to hell fractures All right, so fractures that would not heal that motor called delayed unions or non unions. If you break a forearm, have a forearm fracture that doesn't heal. What happens? You eventually end up with a floppy bone, so you have a non functional bone. Essentially, it's a disaster, you know, functionally speaking, medically speaking. So they approved a particular device. You slap a coil onto that area of the non union and you run it 12 hours a day, and in a year it's healed. You conduce Raj, you can do it. You could do other kinds of surgical therapies. You could do bone grafting and settled to try to heal. But there are a mess and they are where to work their work very well at all. So all of a sudden comes along a non invasive, non toxic treatment that stimulates the information and has been shown to be absolutely effective. So in a year you got a union, so ha well, it causes a fracture that has stopped totally stalled healing toe happen. What is it doing to the bone? Took a bunch of things. First of all, it's helping the tissues around that old fracture to heal themselves. Number two, it's ah, improving circulation. Activating stimulated all kinds of growth factors, including stem cells. And then it's stimulating new bone formation right now, in hearts of making the ball, What do you have to do? You have to have a balance between osteo classic activity, which is bone breaking down activity and osteoblasts tick activity, which is bone building. So when people get osteoporosis, what's happened with them is that they have too much osteo classic activity and not enough osteo plastic activity. So I have complete imbalance and the medications that they're provided to people basically decrease the austere classic activity, but they do nothing for the osteo plastic activity, and for that you basically cross your fingers and hope that the body can do a good enough job to stimulate Novosti. Plus, we'll factors. You have the same issue. You have to break down the old bone. So you're remodeling a house, you have to break downhill part of the house. And then you have to put a new structural material into that into the end of place of the old old material and build bridges between the ends of the bones that are broken. So we really had evidence. 25 years of track record with that kind of technology. It works really well. Well, if it does that in a fracture site, what can it do in a bone that's become weakened by by virtue of testing, like Dexter scanning other kinds of imaging studies, et cetera, Well, clearly you should be able to stimulate the information. As it turns out, PMS actually are the miracle. They decrease osteoclasts captivity and they increase osteo plastic activity, which is actually what we want. We want to have a balance because you or I will break a bone. We want that balanced way. We rely on our body to control the two factors you shut down on ST clack classic activity when you need to, and you amplify the osteoblasts activity when you need to. And when they're back in balance, you know, then they're constantly modulating themselves to betting on the stresses that you put on that bone. So that's essentially how they work for osteoporosis. They balance the two arms now p, and that's also by virtue of loss increasing osteoblasts. They gotta do not do that, but the increased growth factors they changed gene expression. They re mineralized the tissues. So that was You make a new bone, but you could have very you have new bone that could be like a the young Blatch. It's very soft, so you have to mineral eyes that bone in order to become firm again. So then you could you could rely on it, taking the stress that you need to put a bone through using muscles, weight bearing, jumping, walking, you know, etcetera.

spk_1:   23:45
In some of the studies that have been done on the effects of PMS therapy on bone. Are those studies done in people or they done and rats and labs, and can they be compared t everyday treatment opportunities for for individuals like you and I, who would want to get something like this for osteoporosis?

spk_0:   24:04
Well, there are several types of approaches, so there are what are called in vitro studies in vitro, which means it's outside the body so they have done in test tubes or Petri dishes. And that's where you could see whether you consider the growth factors. And you watch mineralization techniques, etcetera. So you need to do in vitro to establish basic mechanisms. Sided basic cellular mechanisms that apply to all cells and obviously different kinds of cells will have different degrees of mechanisms of brain cells. Gonna operate a lot differently than a bone cells, so that's one level of study there. There are lots and lots and lots of studies now on PMS and bone in vitro. The next step is to study it in vivo inside a body, and the bodies that have been studied the most have been animal bodies, mice, rats and other kinds of animals. Cats, dogs so and there's a fair bit of research with that, So that's the kind of proceeding process that you go through defining reach FDA approval because they want to see what happens. That animal's they want to see that it's safe and because he wants you that it works and animals now, ethically speaking, we can subject humans to this treatment to see if it happens in humans. We will make sure that it's safe, and we'll make sure that it's effective. So there are fewer human studies. But there are human studies, and you can't always extrapolate from a most study or a rat study to human because their physiology is different and they're going to react in different ways. But there've been plenty studies in animals who have been like female rats that have had their overs removed, and then it had been exposed to Pia maps. And then it was study. What happens in those rat bones? There are, uh, have gone through menopause, artificial or otherwise, and see what happens in their homes. And then you expose the similar animals to make that it feels to see what happens in their bones is the ah ha PMS actually make a big difference in new beau information and slowing down the Austin product process. So we know that happens in the animals. So now we know that it does happen in humans and there are many studies that would like to see many of these studies, like even the studies for the drugs. We're the longest studies that the FDA looked at to approve drugs for osteoporosis. How long was the longest duration? Two years? Fosamax was originally approved for two years of use because that was like for the study. How many people who get put on these drugs are on them for longer than two years?

spk_1:   26:43
Oh, many, many,

spk_0:   26:45
most unless they can't tolerate them, Which is this? That's a separate issue, But tolerance is a problem. Side effects are a big problem with those drugs. No, no such issue with PIA Maps at all. My point is that you have to do these studies for a long enough period of time, and doing research studies is very expensive, and the people who are in those studies have to be willing to tolerate the rigorous nous of a protocol. They can't break the protocol. You don't mess with the contract, so that's a that's a challenge in terms of length of time. So most of the studies have been done to humans have been relatively short term.

spk_1:   27:21
Now, this is a pause from my interview with Dr Pollack, and we're gonna come back through the interview in just a minute. But after the interview is over, I came across another research study, one that we didn't discuss in the interview on pulsed electromagnetic fields on postmenopausal osteoporosis. This was in southwest China. It was a randomized, active, controlled trial that was conducted to examine the effect of PMS on women with postmenopausal osteoporosis. There were 44 participants randomly assigned to receive either lender Nate, which is Fosamax, or one course of PMF treatment. Over a period of 24 weeks. The researchers were looking at the mean percentage change in bone mineral density of the lumbar spine and the left proximal femur bone. The device that was used was an eight Hertz PMF device with an asymmetrical PM a pulse at 3.8 million Tesla, or 38 KAOS. The women in the study had 30 treatments, six treatments a week for five weeks for 40 minutes each. It was a tube type device that Onley treated the spine and hip areas. The bone density assessments were done at the end of treatment at 12 weeks and a 24 weeks. One of the conclusions of the study was that results suggested that a course of PMF treatment with specific parameters was a CZ effective as a lender. Nate in treating postmenopausal osteoporosis within 24 weeks, sounds pretty amazing, right PMS as effective as a lender Nate in treating osteoporosis. But what Dr Pollack shared and what you need to keep in mind when you see this research is that 24 weeks is not long enough to see statistically significant changes in bone density, even though they did see benefits. He believes this study was underpowered from a PMF perspective. So I thought it was important to add this information into the discussion because it may be a study that you come across in your own research. I'll be linking to this study in the show notes over bone coach dot com forward slash PMF. Now we'll get back to the interview with Dr Pollack

spk_0:   29:23
and that for that reason, we're going to have to basically do research of people using PMS themselves over long periods of time and have new, repeated measures of their other bone etc. So clinically, I have actually seen number numerous patients now that we followed for a while to 46 years with standard therapies for osteoporosis, combined with nutrient support supplements. Ah, hormones and the magnetic fields. And in virtually all of them you have seen stabilization of the osteoporosis process. Uh, I consider that a win

spk_1:   30:05
I do want to ask Andi make clear to the people listening is that P. M. F is not a standalone therapy for osteoporosis. Their other factors that need to play in P. M. F is a compliment to the other things that you're doing the nutrients. Yes, getting your hormones correct Some of the other things in your body.

spk_0:   30:25
It may. It may be available to be used as a soul therapy, but personally, as a doctor, as a medical doctor, I would never do that. That's unethical. Sure, right when I know that other things are necessary, you can't build a house without bricks and mortar, right? You have to supply the basic nutrients for a tissue to be healthy. So if there's not enough calcium, if there aren't enough growth factors, if the body's acidic as a lot of inflammation of the body, the person is really unhealthy. That's How are you? How non unions happen because you got an unhealthy organism to begin with. So the delay union or healing is delayed because you don't have the structure underneath that person to be able to do adequate healing. So, yes, that's a that's a component has to be dealt with as well, because whatever got you tossed paralysis in the first place, you have to understand what happened cause that in the first place, if you don't remove the cause, that is basically a pouring gasoline on a fire, and you're trying to put the fire out of my point water on it while you're still pouring gasoline on the fire. Well, you know that doesn't make great sense, but that's often what we're doing.

spk_1:   31:33
So to help people visualize, we've talked about PMS. We talked about what it does in the body. How does this how does this actually used in practical applications? Somebody gets a PMF unit. How do they actually use this on themselves to reap the benefits

spk_0:   31:49
on? That's the critical question is that that's where the rubber hits the road. So we have all this understanding of how it works and why it works and that it does work in fact. But now how do you actually apply? So I said, First of all, you make sure that people are property supported with the building blocks, and then you have to have the right magnetic system, so we know it's gonna go through the bones. The studies that I mentioned like my my wife's toe fracture. That's a very local problem. That's easy. That's a no brainer. Basically, the FDA approved devices for non unions. That's our local problem. Is osteoporosis a local problem? It is not people. It's misleading for people cause I think, well, it's my spinal fracture. My compression fracture, That's where the problem is. Or it's my hip fracture. Or is my pelvic fracture? It's not. It's the whole skeleton. What's one of the most common factors and people? Osteoporosis? Forearm clavicle, right falls so you don't have to be slammed with your spine and car accident or fall down some stairs to have a vertebral fracture they've got. Fact for your osteoporosis is bad enough. I have to do is have a really good cough or a sneeze. But that's extreme. So, for most people, actually, is the whole skeleton is the problem. You could have a rib fracture. I've seen many people osteoporosis refracted because they coughed again. That's for any extensive. Osteoporosis is way down the line with T scores of minus 3.5 or four. So the point is, the point I'm trying to make is that you need to have a magnetic therapy system that's strong enough in intensity and covers the whole body. Now, in some cases, that's still not enough, because the whole body magnetic therapy systems are what nuts strong enough. If you were to go to the bother, you can buy higher intensity PMF systems that basically can be moved around to different parts of the body. You may not be able to get the whole skeleton, but at least you get the biggest areas of risk the virt vertebrae, the pelvis and the femur. So those higher intensity devices will do the job better faster because the higher the intensity, the more energy is produced in the tissue, the more stimulation and there is of the tissue, and you don't need to do as much treatment time. Where I see the biggest problem for people is that they are convinced by often multi level marketing people to buy a magnetic therapy system. This works. This works, got testimonials and all kinds of evidence that it works Well, they don't have evidence. They just have testimonials that it works. Show me the evidence. Now, if I've happened, put a woman on, um, hormone replacement who with osteoporosis that's already gonna provide a benefit. But most the time I have not seen new bone growth. You'll see a little bit of new bone growth with Fosamax and the best foster Nate from one year for one test to the next. Um, but usually not a whole lot. Can you recover all the bone you've lost? I have not seen that happen. But one of the reasons we may not have seen it happen is we haven't not enough stimulation, right kind of stimulation with the right amount of treatment time or a long enough period of time. And people take all the supplements continually. How many hours a day has osteoporosis work 24 7 and never sleeps right? So if you do, if you if you want to go to a doctor's office and get treatment once a week Is that gonna be adequate? There's not enough stimulus to the tissues to keep the osteoporosis at bay for the whole time. The idea of throwing gasoline on the fire, right? You only saw the water on the fire just one once in a while and do a little bit of water while you know your stocking after not gonna have any impact on that fire. So you have to match. You have to match the degree of osteoporosis. So some people lost, approaches it very aggressive. I saw people have a very mild, so you have to kind of know your own situation. You know how aggressive you have to be and what levels of intensity should be using. But typically again, if people follow the protocols that I usually set out for people, then we see bone gain from one year to the next and has imagined having no further loss is still a win. But I would cap how people to expect to regain all their bone density.

spk_1:   36:10
What, then, is the is the appropriate treatment intensity. How is it measured? And how long does it need to be applied to receive the benefits?

spk_0:   36:19
So there are a couple of whole body magnetic systems, and I'll name a name, the ones that don't I recommend the most because there are a whole lot available, the ones that I don't recommend anybody being talked to you Clearly he's talking to you about a PMF system for your bone density for osteoporosis or osteopenia. Even if you ask them with the intensity of the magnetic field is and they can't tell you what the intensity is. Run not too hard, but run away because you you can't rely on them to be telling you the right thing. Sure, so if the intensity the magnetic system is probably less than maybe 50 girls of 70 ghosts, for sure you're not getting enough intensity. If you could get up to 500 ghosts, so goes G. A. U. S s is a measure of the intensity of the magnetic field. That's the technical term, for it is Milly Tesler. So it's just 50 million Tesler. Then you get your re sufficient intensity. The problem is that 50 million tests on magnetic field that's whole body is expensive. If you don't care about cost, especially if you had fractured already, then they're about $13,000. So don't fall off your chair. Once a fracture. What's it? What's it worth to treat a fracture? What's it worth to prevent a fracture? I know many people are going to listen to. You have already had spinal fractures and you know it's a message of disaster because medicine orthopedics does not have a good solution for those. So you know the best thing. Obviously, clearly this case is prevention, so that's the idea would be like 500 girls. If you don't want to go to a higher level of intensity system, there's one that I could recommend that's about well, there's two levels above that. One would be about $2000 and the next one above that would be close to 4000 girls. But it was that her above the 500 ghosts are not whole body. They're like half body. And as I said, you'd have to move it around in different parts of the body to get the benefit. But if you stick with the whole body systems and the 500 goats would be the minimum over, that would be the best below. That would be about 150 house for ho by all of these systems have smaller applicators, so the one that's 150 ghosts, you can actually get a new accessory that allows you to use to applicators at the same time. So if you have a whole body pad right that the magnetic fields around around inside that pat and there could be stimulating the whole body in different areas. But let's say you have a problem with a palette fracture. So are your spine. Is the T scores of your spine or worse than T scores and your hips? They may want to focus an additional magnetic field on the spine, the lumbar spine area. In that case, you can lay on the whole body fat to do whole body treatment, and then you could layer on top of it with a smaller applicator. That's higher, Tessie. So, for example, the 150 go system ah has a small applicator that's about 1000 house, okay, and the next level down below. That is a 70 ghost system that does not allow you to do it to use to applicators at a time, and the smaller applicator with the 70 Golfs system is about 200 girls. So you're losing a lot of you have a lot of loss and magnetic field. Now all of that is still better than nothing. But I would not waste your money buying a system that's under 70 ghosts. Nobody. It's a way somebody.

spk_1:   39:57
Okay, so basically, we have a whole body Matt that you're laying down on. Ideally, you would have this smaller applicator pad. That's maybe what, 12 by 12 or something

spk_0:   40:10
Essentially let the foot square

spk_1:   40:12
okay. And then you would take you would lay down on the whole body, Matt, you turn on your device and then you'd have this pad that's 12 bytes. Well, over something like that, and you hold it over the area that that has the may be the lowest bone densities. Maybe that's the largest party your spine, and you're basically sandwiching pulsed electromagnetic fields.

spk_0:   40:32
It's called the magnetic sandwich. So this is producing a magnetic field. This is producing a magnetic field. And where the two fields combined, you have a much higher intensity in that area between those two fields. So that's what I call that the magnetic sandwich. So I do that if you have a switch, you can only do that. If you have a magnetic device that allows him to run to applicators simultaneously.

spk_1:   40:55
Sure. And so how long would you need to use either? Just the whole body, Matt. Where the whole body. Matt, in this additional applicator, is it every single day? Is it every other day and how?

spk_0:   41:08
Yes. So the research on this is all over the place again, largely having to do with the protocols the cost of doing this kind of research. The people have to go somewhere to get treatment. And how long do they spend in treatment? How many times a week are they willing to come to the office or to the research setting treatment center? Osteoporosis never sleeps. So basically, what I'm saying is, you gotta do it every day. The more you do it, the more bones stimulation you create, the more benefit you're going to get. Now if you have osteoporosis. If you have t scores that are minus 3.5 reminders for you do best maybe doing three hours a day of treatment. How much treatment you have to do when you cracked your hip how much treated you have to do when you fracture a spine or multiple multiple levels. That spine. So you think about that, and you think that this is an inconvenience to do this treatment to prevent it. But what's more, inconvenient factor? Clearly right, So we have to walk, erect away those way. All want a miracle. We want the easiest, quickest, best fastest, and I'm sorry you have to have the body cooperate with your body's gonna tell you what you can do. So what I do that is, I normally start with a minimum of 1/2 an hour, twice a day minimum. I would. Even with the higher intensity system, I would still recommend an hour twice a day. Then, when you repeat your bone density and you go on the osteoporosis protocol, when you when you repeat the bone density. If you've gained some home, that's that's great. If you're released, stayed stable, then you know that that's what you probably have to continue. Keep doing the therapy repeated again. If you've gained more information, maybe you could back off because when you don't want to do is you don't want to be continuing to lose ground. You have to keep up with the bone loss, if nothing else, and your body's going to tell you so if you have your osteoporosis protocol, all the supplements that you need and you have the magnetic therapy and you're still losing bone with with all that there, we have to look a causation, then it really much more important. Look, because if you're still on high dose steroids, if you're still if you're still doing gluten, if you still have other autoimmune issues going on, then you have to have to look at those as well to be able to get control of those to be able to have a fully fact,

spk_1:   43:36
sure, and hopefully if if you're endocrinologist or bone health specialists or whoever, it is it that you're going to four osteoporosis treatment. Hopefully, they've already done a proper work up. Andi identified. Are you actively losing bone? What's the underlying cause of? Hopefully you already addressed all those things up front,

spk_0:   43:54
and then what? You know, before you start magnetic therapy, then obviously the better off you are. I offer consultations. Dr paul dot com. We offer consultations for people. Three no charge confrontations now I don't want people having consultations of my time is valuable. I'd rather be doing consultation on people who are serious and are willing to spend the money to get a system for themself. Knowing about magnetic field therapy without application is, you know, is mental gymnastics. That is not gonna help your osteoporosis. Sure, now you can use, by the way, you can use the pasta Proactive osteoporosis trucks with PMS. The two together will work better than either alone. You might be able to reduce the dose of your osteoporosis drugs on and do make that therapy and get a result that the people who are rooting severe with their osteoporosis. Um, and you can't really get a good hold of the bone rebuilding, then the combination. The two is especially important, so you may not be able to get enough action going with the magnetic fields. You may still have to have some benefits. Some help from something else, at least for a certain amount of time. And picking up typically help you deal with side effects of those medications, often anyway,

spk_1:   45:16
great. And just to summarize what we've what we've just kind of walked through here. You were talking about different PMF units. The minimum amount of gas that you would want at any PMF unit is 70 kaos correct. Minimum minimum. And then, ideally, it would be unit in between 152 500 kaos on a whole body. Matt,

spk_0:   45:36
look, Nobody Matt. And then it doesn't really matter what the intensity is on the smaller application because you admit you make sure you have the whole body with a proper intensity,

spk_1:   45:45
okay? And then you would do that every day, ideally at a minimum of 30 minutes, but could be

spk_0:   45:51
apart for mass twice today.

spk_1:   45:53
30 minutes, twice a day. Could be up to three hours. Is there a way to work this into your sleep?

spk_0:   46:02
Um, no, not with the devices were talking about, um, the devices that are often available for sleep. Um, well, for Douglas sleep, we'll talk about all all through the night, and the answer is no. Most of the devices that are available that can run throughout the night are way too low intensity. They just not will not do the job. Um, one of the devices called the parm It's super, which is the $150 machine. The super allows you to run it on a PC. You could write your own programs, and then that allows you to run it for 99 minutes, in which case you can put on your bed and you have 99 minutes of stimulation at that time. That might be enough for some people. Just that 99 minutes. Stimulation may be enough. Uh, time will tell, of course, but that's about the longest. You can get these things to work now. What you could do is you could turn it back on again. I run her for another 99 minutes. They're not that comfortable to lay on. But you know, if you can do it, it's possible, especially have a fracture. If you already have a spiral fracture, then then or hip fracture and you're hitting from the fracture at the time that you actually have the fracture. If you doing magnetic field therapy, you're gonna kill the fat faster, faster and you're gonna help your osteoporosis. Now, these these these A PMS, by the way, are very, very helpful for people with like, um um my mama or cancer who have Metz of metastases where the bones are broken or you've got a space found collapse. That then PMS are extraordinary, helpful there because often their associate with a lot of pain. And one of the most effective ways of using a P m. F is for cancer pain

spk_1:   47:46
and does the does the intensity need to be increased in order to address, you know, the my Lomer the cancer? Is there anything like that? Or is that same PMF intensity for osteoporosis sufficient Also, then, for the cancer in the myeloma?

spk_0:   48:01
It's possible it's possible. In the case of the cancer setting, I would recommend the much higher intensity magnetic systems. Okay, because that because you not only want to address the bone itself, the area boat broke bum. This fracture or collapsed are degenerated. You want also want to help with the cancer process, and PMS can help with the cancer process too

spk_1:   48:22
great. And and you're also in addition to if you're using this for osteoporosis, you're also getting all those other cellular benefits correct.

spk_0:   48:33
Well, that's the beauty of PMS, right? It's not open like all right, it's not a one horse shay. It's not a one use the FDA typically likes to have one indication for no one treatment For one indication, conditions have to think holistically. They have to think about the whole person. So the beauty to Pia maps again is it can address the arthritis and you're back. You're gonna address the arthritis in your knee. You can help. Appendix. It's just so many of the use. All the other uses of P. M s are available to you when you have a pee enough system. And I tell people to that when they own one, you don't own it. The house owns it, including the dog, the cat in the plants. So that needs other parts of the body as well as other people in the house.

spk_1:   49:14
Sure. Now, you you did mention one thing that some of these devices may be cost prohibitive for some people. What would be Is there an economical way for people to get access to some of these devices? If if maybe that 29,000 price point is out of their budget?

spk_0:   49:36
Um, so it really depends on one's willingness to take on debt, so you could always go to a bank and borrow some money, Go to your credit. Getting bore some money go lendingtree dot com Bore some money cause LendingTree does support the purchase of medical devices. So the pee enough so not considered medical devices their wellness devices. They have to be adjunctive. As you said at the beginning, the up to be complimentary to other things that you do so they're considered wellness devices, so there may be some lenders that will not. But again, we often because that's backed by dr pollack dot com. Dr Pollack M. D. Then often we can get by. But by past that you can also get a PayPal account and do papal credit. So you know papel credit. Then you have the ability to, um, take six months to pay it off. You can either wait the full six months, no interest and pay it off in one lump sum where you can pay it off incrementally over that time, boy, go their strike and find yourself some credit cards that you don't have to pay anything on it for a year or or two years. There's a private ways to do it now. If there are people who are professionals if they're licensed professionals, then you get a lease. There are leasing companies that will least two professionals and you turn lease it out for one year, three years, five years. You know, whatever makes sense for you.

spk_1:   51:02
So anything else you think is important for our listeners to understand about P m f and how it relates to low bone density.

spk_0:   51:09
Well, the only thing I suggest is get a copy of the book. So power tools for health. I have ah, blogger on my website about osteoporosis and osteopenia. We read the blawg, so there's more information there. Um, obviously, you're gonna certainly do your own due diligence and your own research about PMS. But those are the two resources that I would recommend for people to go to. And that's the most important thing is learn more about this on then. Of course, you have access to consultations.

spk_1:   51:38
Great. And I'm gonna link to those different resource is Dr Pollack that you've just mentioned here and also linked to your website and the ability for people to get in touch with you. So I do appreciate very much your time today and the information you've shared on PMF therapy. I'm sure our listeners found it very helpful, and I look forward to talking to you again soon.

spk_0:   51:59
Thank you very much again for inviting me. And I wish you know all your listeners and viewers great success in happening them with their problems.

spk_1:   52:08
Dr. Pollack. Thank you.

spk_0:   52:09
Have a great day,

spk_1:   52:10
you two. After the interview, part of my correspondence with Dr Pollack included information about the PMS therapy Postmenopausal Research study in China that I mentioned. But there were a few other things Dr Pollack and I discussed, one of which is something that I think is really important to reiterate. Dr. Pollack said that there's also research that has shown that when magnetic therapy has stopped, the benefit returns to baseline because PMF therapy does not remove the underlying cause of the osteoporosis that is aging and loss of hormones in the case of postmenopausal osteoporosis. This is why he recommends the highest intensity whole body PMF systems to get the best results in the shortest daily treatment times. That's also why I would say it's incredibly important to identify if you're actively losing bone and what could be causing that bone loss because it's not always clear. And in the free seven day osteoporosis kickstart at bone coach dot com. I'll help you identify causes of osteoporosis, and I'll teach you how to identify. If you're actively losing bone, all you do is just add your email and I'll send the information straight to your inbox, Okay, and then my last question for Dr Pollack was related to wave forms. If you're considering investing in a PMF device and you're doing your own research on them, then this next part is important. There are a lot of different PMF technologies on the market. Some of them promote their wave forms as the differentiators in their technology. My question to Dr Pollack was, Do wave forms matter now? His full response is a bit technical for the average listener. So I outlined the full details of his response, including an image talking about time and intensity in the post over a bone coach dot com forward slash PMF. But for this podcast, I'm summarizing his response to my question. Do wave forms matter? Dr. Pollack says there is no one gold standard wave form, and there is no one wave form that is better than another. The purpose of the wave form is to deliver the energy into the cells and tissues. This is based on something called Faraday's Law, which basically states that the change in intensity over time determines the degree of stimulation. Dr. Paul. It goes on to share that some of the companies that focus on their way forms completely ignore Faraday's law because it flies in the face of the intensities in their systems, which are under one KAOS. Even the Chinese study I previously mentioned use 38 KAOS and Dr Paul. It's recommendation for osteoporosis is a minimum of 70 KAOS. Dr. Paul continues on to share that. The ideal changing intensity over time could be produced by almost any way forms based on engineering design. So companies who claim that a sawtooth wave, a square wave or any other waiver ideal are not accurate. It all depends on the engineering. Clearly, he says of magnetic field that only produces a maximum of one KAOS, even though it may be extremely rapid, for example, in a millisecond is not going to be anywhere near as effective in the body as a PMF device that produces a 70 gas peaked magnetic field in that same time. So even a very weak PMF field with intensities around one KAOS can produce some benefits. However, the rule of thumb is, the higher the intensity. Typically, the faster and better the results will be for a shorter amount of time needed for treatment. Last thing I want to bring up related to accessing these PMF device is clearly this is not an inexpensive technology. It's an investment for the type of device you'd want for osteoporosis. Some of these devices could be 13,000 even $13,000 or more for some of the higher intensities. That's a sizable investment for most people. If you have the budget for it, that's great. I know. Dr. Pollack offers free consultations at dr pollack dot com for people that are seriously interested in the technology, I believe he even has the option to rent thes for a period of time. Let's say you fracture and you want to speed fracture healing, but you don't have the budget to purchase one of these devices. Renting may be an option you consider. If that's still out of your budget, you could potentially find one at a holistic or functional medicine doctors office near you and pay for individual appointments. I know some Aussie strong locations have these devices, but remember to see the kind of benefits we're talking about here as it relates to low bone density, the frequency, duration and intensity all matters. So just keep that in mind. We've covered a lot of information on PMF what it is. Its benefits recommendations around devices and intensities studies on the impact of PMS on our bones and much more, Dr Pollack said. This is the most detailed interview he's done on the topic of PMF in osteoporosis. So I hope you found this information interesting and useful. For this episode, you can find all the resource is mentioned. Show notes, studies reference and Maur information about Dr Pollock over a bone coach dot com forward slash p e m f. Remember, 2 p.m. F is not a standalone therapy. It's complimentary. Proper nutrition supplementation, hormones lifestyle and addressing underlying causes of bone loss all have a role in improving your bone health. And you know, even if you're not planning on incorporating PMF into your bone health routine or it doesn't fit your budget at this time. That's okay. My goal is to provide you with a different information perspectives, interviews, research that could help you in your bone health journey. It's all about education and empowerment. The more we know, the better off we'll be from making more informed decisions for our own health and our bones. If you haven't done so already, be sure to hit that button and subscribe to the Bone Coach podcast. So you never miss an episode that could help you and improving your bone health. We have some amazing bone health experts that will be joining us on the show, and I want to make sure you can learn from their expertise. I think that's it for this one. I'm your bone coach, Kevin Ellis. See you in the next