219. Stressed, Stuck, and Overwhelmed? The Mind-Body Reset You Didn’t Know You Needed with Gwen Brehm

Did you know that meditation can rewire your brain, heal stress, and even reverse trauma—without needing to clear your mind?

In this episode of Health Bite, Dr. Adrienne Youdim sits down with Gwen Brehm, psychotherapist, mind-body practitioner, and trauma specialist, to break down the real science behind meditation. 

They uncover how chronic stress reshapes the brain, why meditation is the key to unwinding trauma at a cellular level, and why anyone—yes, even you—can meditate successfully.

Gwen shares how small, everyday mindfulness practices can lower cortisol, improve resilience, and even shift generational stress patterns. Whether you've struggled with meditation before or are just curious about its healing power, this episode will help you start (and stick with) a practice that works for you.

Who is Gwen Brehm?

• Psychotherapist & Trauma Specialist focused on stress resilience
• Mind-Body Medicine Expert teaching meditation & mindfulness practices
• Founder of One Kind Thing, a group program for behavioral change & healing
• Retreat Facilitator & Speaker on the science of mind-body healing
  
  

What You'll Discover in This Episode:

• How stress & trauma physically change the brain (and how meditation reverses the damage)
• The myth of an “empty mind”—what meditation really is (hint: your thoughts aren’t the problem!)
• Why meditation is as essential as sleep & nutrition for your health
• The one-breath technique that instantly lowers stress in under 10 seconds
• How to build a meditation practice that actually fits into your busy life

Why This Episode Matters:

In a world where stress, burnout, and trauma are at an all-time high, meditation isn’t just a wellness trend—it’s a proven, science-backed tool for reclaiming mental and emotional well-being. 

Gwen’s insights provide a practical, no-BS approach to meditation, making it accessible for everyone (even the skeptics).

This episode will help you:

• Understand how stress affects your body, brain, and even your genes
• Learn easy, realistic ways to fit meditation into your daily routine
• Gain confidence in starting a practice—even if you think you "can't" meditate
•  Feel less overwhelmed, more grounded, and in control of your stress

"If your brain ever goes completely quiet, that’s a sign you’re dead. Meditation isn’t about stopping thoughts—it’s about learning to sit with them." – Gwen Brehm

Connect with Gwen Brehm:

• Website: GwenBrehm.com
• Retreats: https://www.gwenbrehm.com/retreats
• One KIND Thing: Take Small

Ways that Dr. Adrienne Youdim Can Support You

1. Join the Monthly Free Mind-Body Workshops: Participate in engaging mind-body practices designed to help manage your stress response. Register here.
2. Sign Up for the Newsletter: Stay updated with valuable insights and resources by subscribing to the newsletter. Sign up here.
3. Freebie alert. Register for our monthly free MindBody Workshop and receive a downloadable guide on emotional labeling to help you manage your emotions effectively.

Connect with Dr. Adrienne Youdim

• Website :https://www.dradriennespeaks.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dradrienneyoudim/

Transcript

Adrienne Youdim

Welcome back Health Bite listeners, and you are in for a treat today because I have with us a dear friend and colleague, Gwen Brame. She is extraordinary, both a psychotherapist and mind-body practitioner, also a trauma specialist. She works with individuals and organizations to help inspire their best selves. And what a timely time, Gwen, to have you here on the podcast.

Gwen Brehm

Thank you. My pleasure to be here. Looking forward to it.

Adrienne Youdim

I feel like I've been saying this for the last several years, every single week, that we need these practices now more than ever. And it feels like every week, it becomes even more true. Right. Right. So I just got back from Rancho La Puerta, as I was sharing with you, which is a incredible haven of self-care and was speaking with people on, you know, they asked me to talk about the topic of nutrition, but in my worldview, nutrition really goes beyond the food that we eat and really focuses on the mindset and the mind-body skills that you teach. I think that these skills are nutrients that particularly now are critical for people to know about and to use.

Gwen Brehm

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so when you're working with people, what are you noticing? What are you seeing in individuals who come to you?

Adrienne Youdim

Well, you know, this is a perfect place to start because actually on the retreat or at the retreat center last week, so many people came and spoke with me afterwards, talking about their levels of stress, their levels of distress, and also the sense of like not knowing which way to turn. There are a lot of resources out there that are available to us. You are a practitioner in several of these. So maybe we can just start at the beginning and you can share with us if somebody's feeling overwhelmed, if someone's feeling stuck, how do they know what they need, whether they should seek out individual care with a psychotherapist or engage in mind-body practices? Like where would one start?

Gwen Brehm

Yeah, so there is kind of a line that we draw that is helpful to look at. So if your distress and the challenges that you're facing right now are keeping you from doing your job, showing up at work the way you want to show up, keeping you from being in a good healthy relationship or relating to the people that you care about, or are impending your functioning in some way, then you probably need some professional help. You either need to see a physician or you need to see a therapist. You know, something's going on mentally, emotionally, physically, if you're not able to do your usual life, okay? If you're doing all of those things and you really just need to bring down your stress levels and deal with uncertainty of the future and all of that, There's a lot you can do in mind body medicine, yoga, meditation, things like that. And those actually are much more accessible than they've ever been. And so that would be, I would suggest that'd be a good path for you to follow and only seek out professional help if it's really impending your ability to function. Now that's pretty subjective, right? Like whether somebody feels like they need something or not, but like if you're not able to sleep well and you've tried meditation and yoga and you're still struggling to sleep, then definitely seek out help with a mental health professional or a physician.

Adrienne Youdim

Yeah. And you know, Gwen, that it's quite a few people who I think would put themselves in that camp. And so I think it's important to talk about it and de-stigmatize it. You probably heard of the advisory that the US Surgeon General put out on parents. I think it was late last year. But basically, the statistic he shared, I don't remember the exact number, but it was somewhere in the range of over 45, and under 50%. So let's say 47 or 48% of parents felt so overwhelmed that they could not function. And that's what you're speaking to, that feeling of inability to function. But I think it's also important to say that you may just feel like you want the one-on-one guidance to do better to live? I mean, why is the bar non functioning versus functioning, as opposed to really thriving?

Gwen Brehm

Yeah, so it can go either way, to be honest with you. I mean, some people come into therapy because they want the one on one they want to do better, they want to be a better person, they want to show up better at work, or they want to show up better in their relationships. They're functioning just fine, but they want to do better. So you can do that. You can use a psychotherapist. If there's some patterns in your life that you don't really want around, they're not serving you well, then you can definitely reach out to a therapist for that. I was just giving that bar because that's the general what people look at, like somebody with a pattern of extreme cleanliness, you know, and then they say, well, how do I know it's OCD? Or how do I know if it's just I dislike things clean? I'm like, well, is it keeping you from doing your life? If it is like you can't go to bed at night, unless all your things are lined up, and everything's been checked five times, then it's a problem, you know, but if you're just going through the house, just making the door sure the doors are locked, and you're then you're going to bed, you're fine, right? You're just conscientious and cautious. So, yeah, so we do have a little bit of a bar there but it's always. I always think everybody could use a therapist right maybe because I'm in the business but there are times in our lives that are hard to navigate. And where people used to talk over the back fence, sit down in the front yard and enjoy watermelon or a beer or something like that. Our lives are so busy and crazy right now. We don't do that. We don't sit down in the front yard with our neighbor who's 40 years older than us and talk to them about the challenges we're having with parenting and get their wisdom.

Adrienne Youdim

Yeah.

Gwen Brehm

 Yeah, and so now we go and we pay for it, right?

Adrienne Youdim

Which is totally fine, but just you bringing up that point, and we're going to talk about mind-body medicine and what it means. But again, I like to have these big umbrellas, and connection feels like part of that toolkit. It's something else that actually the Surgeon General also put an advisory out about a few years ago. Um, and the fact that, um, you know, the way you, you mentioned, it feels so accessible. We're not doing it, right. We're not talking over the fence, but it can be as easy as. Reaching out to somebody in our community, whether it is a neighbor or a parent at the school during drop-off or even like the barista at Starbucks. You know, like I go get coffee, you know, most days of the week. And sometimes we're just exasperated together and just sharing that, knowing in a quick interaction in the coffee line, um, makes me feel a little bit more seen, connected, validated in terms of, you know, that collective experience we're having.

Gwen Brehm

Yeah, and sometimes it doesn't even have to be spoken in the sense of you're sharing what's going on with you and they're sharing what's going on with them. It could just be a kind, encouraging word you say to somebody. And they feel good, you feel good, and someone around you who heard that also feels better now. So even just a simple thing. And I think it comes down to that idea of connection. Connection is so important. I have a couple of clients, I don't have any right now, but I swear I've had clients in the past who just hired me as their glorified friend. They just needed somebody to hear them, to value them, and to help them walk through and navigate some challenges in their life. They didn't really need a psychotherapist, but they had no one else. And so I think that's true for a lot of people that the connection with either a group of people, small group of people, or even just one person can be invaluable. But we live in a very busy but isolated environment where we stay pretty much to ourselves.

Adrienne Youdim

Right. And if we can kind of add to that idea of connection, because there is also the kind of loneliness that occurs despite having people around, right? So one can feel disconnected even when they're in a relationship with a partner or a mate, or even when they have coworkers that they see every day. They have lots of people around them, but still feel disconnected. And I think that's kind of where mind-body practices come in. capacity to create connection with oneself. Exactly, exactly.

Gwen Brehm

So it comes down to being able to be present with yourself in this moment, the whole idea around mindfulness, connecting with yourself is also being aware of what's happening inside with your thought patterns, your emotions, and what's going on physically for you. And in mind body practices, we draw upon the wisdom that we have within their several skills that we utilize to do that. But we also draw upon the wisdom from people who have gone before us. Maybe we think about our ancestors or our parents or grandparents, the culture that we grew up in. Maybe we also draw upon the wisdom of other people that we connect with. And in MindBodySkills groups, they're run as a group. So you have a small handful of people that are there to be present for you. They're not there to tell you what to do, how to do it. They're just there to hold what we call holding space, like just allowing you to process what you need to process at the time. It's a beautiful experience to have that happen and for people to partake in that and really enjoy it.

Adrienne Youdim

So you kind of already, express this but can we take just one step back and can you just share like how you define mind-body medicine or mind-body practices and skills what does that really mean even yeah yeah so mind-body skills oftentimes are skills that people have been doing throughout the ages

Gwen Brehm

There are a lot of ancient practices that people use many years ago, and some cultures still use them. But it was before modern medicine, you know, it was before we had a technological, well, industrial and technological age, and we got caught up in that. But the practices drop on the wisdom within, they draw upon the healing aspects of being in a community of people and connecting with people who love and care about you. And They also draw upon the body's innate ability that given the right environment and given the right knowledge and information, the body can do a lot of healing on its own. When we take the time to lower our stress levels, when we take the time to work through trauma by doing ancient practices such as meditation, guided imagery, things like that, movement, meditation, some of these things that have been around for thousands of years. When we take the time to do that, the body has an innate ability to start getting itself back in balance again. But we have to provide that environment right and it has to be based on right wisdom. You're not going to heal a broken leg that way. But because we're always going to need modern medicine for those kinds of things, but you're going to be able to help heal things down at a very cellular level when you're taking the time to lower the stress, lower the cortisol that's pumping through and bring more oxygen into your system as well. So it goes that deep. I mean, it really does go from just the whole good feeling being in a group with people all the way down to what is actually happening at a cellular level for you.

Adrienne Youdim

Yeah, and I'd love for you to dig a little bit deeper in that, because I think that a lot of times people feel like this is woo-woo, right? And even as a, I mean, now I understand the science behind it, but seven years ago, despite medical school and residency and fellowship and years of reading medical journals, I never was taught any of this stuff, that there was actually science behind it. I mean, and it feels intuitive, right? To your point, it feels right, but now we also have the science to back up what feels right.

Gwen Brehm

Right, right. That's exactly right. So the basic science, I'll just keep it, try to keep it kind of basic. The basic science is that when we have stress, when we have trauma in our lives, The brain changes. The brain has an impact with that. We feel it in our emotions, but it triggers off chemicals and reactions in the brain that actually changes the physiology of the brain. And we can do MRI, functional MRIs and see that happening. And so what we have noticed is there are certain skills that help reverse the damage that comes from trauma and stress. So when you go through a great deal of stress, you activate like the amygdala, which is I call the fire alarm of the brain, it sends of cortisol and adrenaline pumping through the body, we might be able to calm some of that stress down after the threat is over, but seldom do we go down to baseline. So you might just have a chronic pumping of cortisol going through your body. Well, over time that damages all kinds of things in your body can damage the endocrine system. You have people ending up with thyroid issues because their endocrine system has been burned out. You have people with chronic health issues, perhaps leading to heart disease and diabetes because they're just overstressing their body all the time. People with trauma in their background have a higher incidence of diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and chronic illness. And all of this has been researched. We know it's there. And it's hard, though, because In the moment, people feel fine. Like, I don't feel like anything's going on, but then 20 years from now, they've had all this, you know, I've got heart disease now and I've got diabetes. How come I have diabetes? Nobody in my family said I have diabetes, you know, and then they're wondering, you know, how did this happen? Well, it's that chronic stress. like you mentioned, all these families who are so busy and taking their kids here, there, and everywhere, and they're wearing themselves out. And I've been there, done that. I know exactly. I raised three kids by myself. I know exactly what that's all about. It's overwhelming. But if we don't stop, we're going to end up with lots and lots of health issues. Interestingly enough, the damage that is done can actually express itself in our genes and it can be even passed down. So the opposite is true too though, is that the healing that we do and undoing the damage of the stress and the trauma can express itself in our genes and then we pass down healing and growth as opposed to trauma and stress. So there's some positive things that can come out of that, passing things down. But even going down to a deeper level, the stress, the chronic pumping of cortisol and other reactions that are happening, get down to us at a cellular level. The mitochondria, which is the engine of our cells, they are damaged by our stress, what we eat, whether we sleep well, whether we eat well, all of that impacts every little cell in your body. And I think it was, let me see if I can pull her name out of my hat. Nope, it's not coming to me, but a younger you, the author of A Younger You says that even one meal can impact how your mitochondria are functioning in your body. So those people who say, oh, you can eat healthy, but go blow it up, you know, on a Friday night. Well, I mean, you can, but there's, You just have to understand there's gonna be a consequence to that, right? And so anyway, all of that is super important because when your cells aren't healthy, then you're in hot water. But it all starts with how we pay attention and then what we do when we gain that awareness, what are you gonna do about it? So like if you found out that Oh, when I go out with my girlfriends on Friday night and we eat tacos and chips and queso and drink four or five margaritas, the next day I feel terrible and it takes three days for my body to get back into balance. That's awareness. And then you say, okay, so what do I need to do? Do I need to stop going out with my girlfriends? Probably not, but maybe I need to make better choices. So that level, and then are there other ways I can bring my stress down and take better care of my body? so that I'm less likely to buy five margaritas when I go out and Mexican food, maybe one is fine, you know, different things like that.

Adrienne Youdim

So, you know, whenever I hear about the, you know, the epigenetics that you described, like how the trauma gets passed down, or the stress gets passed down, being the worrier that I am, I always think, well, shoot, I came to all these practices after I had my three kids. But I've also found in leading these groups myself that something interesting happens in terms of like the ripple effect. So I've had patients or let's say clients, not necessarily even patients who've participated in these groups and they come because of a stress related to a child who's not doing well, a child who has mental health issues, And in one case, it was really severe. So it was somebody whose child had severe eating disorders and suicidal thoughts. And by the end of the eight weeks, she described this like transformation that happened in her household. She wasn't teaching the child, but there was this like halo effect. Is that something, I'm sure you've experienced it too. I'm curious about your thoughts.

Gwen Brehm

Yeah, yeah, no, it does make a difference. So I have two stories I'll tell you. One of them, when my oldest son was in high school, one day I was in the kitchen and I saw this pink little piece of paper sticking under the mail. And I'm like, what is that? And I pulled it out and it was a ticket. He had gotten a ticket for speeding. or something like that anyway. And he had just hit it. He didn't come to me and say, and I just, I was, it was not the right time of the month for me to be finding a ticket. I was tired. It was late at night. And I went into my son's room and I said, I can't believe you got a ticket. I can't believe you told me, I've told you this is, you know, now you're going to have to pay for this and blah, blah, blah. And I'm going to have to pay it and you're going to have to pay it. And I'm just losing it on him. You know, it's my first son, you lose it all on the first kid, right? Three, four, maybe five years later, my daughter gets pulled over and gets a ticket for something. And she calls me and she's crying, I just got pulled over by a police officer and they just gave me a ticket. And my son's there and I'm like, are you okay? Just take a breath. It's gonna be okay. It's just a ticket. We'll work it out. And he's looking at me like, I did not get that. But the difference was is I changed a lot between the time that he was a senior in high school and the time that she, you know, became a senior in high school or junior whenever she was. Because I had started meditation, I had gotten more, become more aware of who I was and how I wanted to show up in the world. And I just had a lot more awareness and then cared more about my child than I did how this was impacting me. You know, where the first one, it was worried about, oh, my God, paper this ticket. And now then it was just like, you know what, we'll figure it out. And and so that's a good, you know, example of how getting involved in my body medicine or meditation, mindfulness can make a big transition for you and it gets passed down. Now, having said that, I went through a lot of trauma when I was pregnant with my daughter. We don't need to get into all the details of that, but I was married to someone who was domestically violent. Let's just put it that way. And so I was worried about her when she was growing up. She's very strong willed. So I didn't probably need to worry too much, but I was just worried how the trauma impacted her. And I think over time, I probably did give her more concessions than I did the others because I knew she had been in utero, been through some trauma. Then when she had a baby, she went through a very traumatic experience. And my first thought is great. She's got all this trauma that she's been carrying in her body. And now she's having this traumatic experience. And I was just, to some degree, I was feeling really kind of guilty. Like maybe I should have talked to her more. Maybe we should have gotten that resolved. You know, cause she, she would not have told you that she had trauma growing up other than her father, but you know, she wouldn't have put it back to me being pregnant with her. Okay. So then she has traumatic experience and she's had a hard time getting over it. So she's seeing a therapist now. She did do some mind, body medicine, and now she's seeing a therapist and what she is learning and how she is growing and the coping skills that she is gaining through seeing that therapist. She's just blossoming even to a more beautiful person than she was before all of this happened. And of course now she's a new mommy and he's doing well. And you know, So had everything gone right, she wouldn't be where she is right now. And she's helping other people who have had traumatic births. And so she's not only just taking better care of herself, she's sharing that love with others. So when we have experiences in our family that we pass down, I don't think it's useful to feel guilty about it, but to look at the opportunity that may rise from it. Yeah.

Adrienne Youdim

Yeah, I love that. Reframing. Yeah. So I think, to your point, we are in a day and age when people understand all of this. And we talk about meditation and these sorts of skills. Often, people believe in what it can do for them, right? So we don't have to convince people mostly of that. And yet, there are two main barriers Um, the first that I want to address is this notion that I can't do it. I can't, my brain is too busy. I can't meditate. How often have you heard that? Right. A million times. And, um, and then I've heard that the response to that I've often heard, well, that's exactly why you need to do it. And yet I don't know that that really lands. So can you maybe just speak to the expectation, maybe it's the expectation management. How would you address that concern that I've tried it before and my brain doesn't work that way, I can't quiet down?

Gwen Brehm

Yeah. Yeah. So you're right. That isn't very common. Like I can't meditate. Yeah. And so there are a couple of things that I would say, first of all, if your brain ever goes completely empty, that's usually a sign you're dead. So we don't want that to happen. So I think clarifying the expectation, you don't empty your mind, your mind doesn't turn off. Okay. Everything just continues to work. Part of meditating is noticing the thoughts and what's going on in your mind. over time of practicing meditation, that doesn't go away. It just moves to the background to where you're just focusing on your breath or being, or if you're doing a mantra or guided imagery, all the noises in the background, because we're always going to have that. And then we're just present in the moment with whatever we're experiencing. So we've got that going on. The second thing is not all meditation is just sitting still. A lot of people see meditation as, you know, I'm crossing my legs. I've got my hands like this and I'm just going, you know, whatever. And that is a type of meditation, but there's hundreds of ways to meditate. Prayer is a meditation. I know you have a faith practice and when you do prayer, That's a form of meditation. And yes, our mind wanders off during prayer and then we have to bring it back again. That's the practice of mindfulness. Practice of mindfulness is not staying focused on one thing right here. The practice of mindfulness is noticing and bringing back and noticing and bringing back. So prayer can be that way. A walking meditation where you're just focusing on something in your walk, whether it's your steps, how you're, the speed that your body is moving, or you're noticing a leaf, a flower, the sky, the wind, different things like that. That is the type of meditation. And when people have a hard time really slowing down, Then we do more expressive meditation. So one of the things that we do at the center for mind, body medicine, where I do some training is we do a shaking meditation where we stand up and we just do lots of shaking. And that kind of unlocks all the stress that can happen and the impact of stress on our brain and let things move and flow and our emotions flow a lot more. If you can't do that, oftentimes I just say, just do some intense exercise, run in place for a while, do some jumping jacks, things like that. Dancing is another way to meditate. You're listening to music, which is taking some of your focus and you're just swaying and moving. I was in a meditation experience this morning with a friend who was playing music from Iran. And it was Persian music. It was beautiful. It had no words. It was just all music. And we were all just swaying and moving to it. And I'm like, I've never heard this song before, but this is beautiful. And it was wonderful to do. So there are so many different ways. If sitting works for you and you start feeling changes in your body and in your mind, great. But if that doesn't work for you, try something else.

Adrienne Youdim

And also the notion that it's a practice. I always think about it in terms of like using a free weight, doing like a biceps crunch, right? It's like that repetitive, you just keep bringing it back, you keep bringing it back. And it's that repetitiveness of having your mind trickle away and be brought back that builds the muscle of the awareness.

Gwen Brehm

Yeah.

Adrienne Youdim

And then the second barrier is time. Yeah.

Gwen Brehm

And I think a lot of us think that we have to set aside large amounts of time for meditation. And I think part of that is because a lot of the research that has been done on meditation and how it impacts the brain has been done in mindfulness-based stress reduction, or MBSR. And that is a 45-minute-a-day practice. So you read these things, meditation helps your brain in this way or that way if you're meditating 45 minutes a day. Okay, well, that would be lovely, but most of us don't have 45 minutes a day. So interestingly enough, people have done research and found that even 10 minutes can make a difference. It's not gonna be the same as 45 minutes. And actually the research shows that anything over 45 minutes, there's not a big, huge return on investment. So doing more than 45 minutes doesn't make you more spiritual or, I mean, it doesn't really do much. Thank God for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But 10 minutes a day can be helpful. Five minutes a day can be helpful. Two minutes a day can be helpful. And there's research that shows if you can take one deep breath in very slowly and then exhale slower than your inhale, that that also lowers the stress level. So even just one breath, and there is no person on the face of this earth that doesn't have time for one big breath.

Adrienne Youdim

Right. And just, yeah, just hearing that, I took a big breath and I feel it, you know.

Gwen Brehm

Yeah. And I find that it's really helpful if you'll pair it with something. So like when I sit up in my chair, I take a deep breath or when the phone rings, I'll take a big deep breath. So if you'll pair it with something that happens in your environment, it's easier for you to pick up that habit.

Adrienne Youdim

Or what? How about this? When a notification goes off on my phone?

Gwen Brehm

Then he might end up with 10 deep breaths. Yeah.

Adrienne Youdim

Well, this is, this has been a great primer, Gwen. And I have, I have personally learned so much from you. And I'm so glad that the listeners had an opportunity to learn from you. And I know that you're doing a lot of great work out there in the community. So can you share with us some of the things that you're involved in and if people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

Gwen Brehm

Yeah, yeah. So I do lots of things because that's just who I am. I love being busy. So I do see some people individually online that I work with for trauma, healing and other issues. And then I do run a group once a week. We call it One Kind Thing. And what we're doing, KIND is a framework that helps people change their behaviors and change their patterns in their life. And we focus on sleep and eating and movement and various other things. There's an online class that you take with it and be part of that group. And then I also do retreats. I have one coming up in April in Central Texas, right outside of Houston, actually. And so it's really, really easy place to access. It's a mind-body healing retreat. So we'll be doing mind-body skills. It's a place for you to come if you just need to leave and go, ah, just to land somewhere. One of my co-facilitators, Dr. Rita Niederlinger will be there with me, and we're going to be leading people in various forms of meditation, nature hikes, activities that are fun. And that particular retreat is just for women and we'll be exploring healing, healing from stress and trauma, overwhelm, those kinds of things. So it'll be a lovely experience. And then I go into businesses and organizations and help them with leadership development and mental health initiatives as well. So keep that in mind. You can find information about me on my website, Gwenbrain.com. All of the offerings that we have going on are listed there. So you'll find information about our retreat and some links to register. You'll also find information about any workshops that I do. I do a free workshop online every month. And so I'm having one tonight if you want to join me. that won't be relevant to this podcast. She won't be posting it today. Anyway, it doesn't matter. There's once a month. My next one is April 8th. And they're just free workshops that talk about changing behaviors and creating better habits in your life and stuff like that. So yeah. So there's lots of things just to go explore on my website and you'll find some, some interesting stuff.

Adrienne Youdim

Well, we'll definitely link everything in the show notes and, um, and, ask the listeners to share this episode with friends and family, uh, because God knows we all could use these skills right now. Um, so I appreciate you being here, Gwen and sharing your wisdom with us. Yeah. Thank you so much. It was a joy. So always a pleasure to be in your company. Likewise. Thanks again. And thanks to all of our listeners.

Gwen Brehm

Yeah. Thank you.