B Local Series: Exploring Sustainable Development with Lisa Geason-Bauer of B Local Wisconsin

Venture into the transformative world of sustainable practices thriving in Wisconsin with Lisa Geason-Bauer from B Local Wisconsin. As an ardent sustainability practitioner and sociologist, Lisa illuminates our pathway with insights into B Local Wisconsin's mission, unfolding journey, and the impact of their projects. From the genesis as a group of committed volunteers to emerging as a fully recognized entity under B Lab, and their aspirations of becoming a 501c3 organization, this episode promises an in-depth exploration into sustainable development at the grassroots level.

Swim against the current with us as we navigate through the partnerships and education initiatives fueling sustainable business in Wisconsin. Unearth the beauty of collaborations as B Local Wisconsin joins hands with diverse groups - spanning organizations, businesses, and local governments, to weave social sustainability into the fabric of their communities and public policies. Listen in to the fascinating discussions around the influential B Impact Assessment tool and the impact of the co-organized Crash Course in Sustainability event held in partnership with the Wisconsin Sustainable Business Council.

As we steer through the tide, we open up conversations on B Corp advocacy and action, shining a spotlight on B Local Wisconsin's endeavors. Lisa unravels the intricacies of the shifting work environment in the face of COVID-19, and the transformative dialogues around emotional and mental well-being, safety, and social emotional learning. And that's not all. Expect to gain insights into the pivotal role of manufacturers, how B Local Wisconsin is fostering a more equitable, inclusive environment, and the intriguing evolution of career paths. Join us on this enlightening journey full of inspiration, insight, and the future of sustainable business.

Benefit Corp vs B Corp episode to share more insight into the difference
B Local Wisconsin B Corp Video

Current B Local WI Board Members 2023:
Lisa Geason-Bauer, Chair - Evolution Marketing
Sarah Lasar, Past Chair - Envest Microfinance
Mfoniso Ekong, Events Chair - gener8tor
Darrie Matthew Burrage, Liberatory Action Chair - Integrated Work
Melina Marcus, Marketing Chair - Rebel Green
Kelsey Moses, Events Committee - Lakefront Brewery
Davidson Kane, Marketing Committee - Kane Communications
Ren LaDassor, Graphic & Media Designer (Marketing Committee) - Just Coffee Co-op
August Ball, Liberatory Action Committee -  Cream City Conservation
Laura Loucks, Events Committee - Edge Impact
Rachel Winter, Volunteer Community Member on Marketing Committee
Kathleen Nicherson, Chair of emerging Climate Action Committee - 3Degrees
Tom Eggert - Board Member working on our nonprofit paperwork 

Co-Founders of B Local WI:
Mary Stelletello, Co-founder & Past Chair - Vista Global Coaching & Consulting
Tom Eggert, Co-founder - Retired Sustainability Professional & Executive Director Emeritus - Wisconsin Sustainable Business Council
Scott Anderson, Co-founder & Past Chair - Artisan Dental
Mark Starik, Co-Found

Dirigo Collective Website

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:11

Welcome to the responsibly different mini series exploring the different B locals around the United States and Canada. B locals are placed based communities of people that are using business as a force for good in their region. B locals are made up of people and businesses that are helping to transform the global economy to benefit all people, community and the planet. Throughout this series, we will hear from different B local leaders in their community and we will learn about the work they are doing and how others can get involved. In this episode, I will be talking with Lisa Giesen Bauer with B Local Wisconsin. Welcome to the show, lisa. I'm so excited to get to know you better through this episode and talk to you about what you do as a company, that's, a B Corp, but also your position on B Local Wisconsin. So, to get us started, the most vague of vague questions for you I want to know who is Lisa. Tell me what makes Lisa Lisa?

Speaker 1: 1:22

That's a great question. Thank you, brittany, for having me. So what makes Lisa Lisa is that I am a sustainability person through and through. So, for example, I'm standing in my house right now and my house runs on solar energy. My home is one of the top 10 most energy efficient homes in the nation, per the EPA. So I don't just talk about sustainability, I do it. I'm a practitioner of sustainability. So the things we're going to talk about today tied to workforce and B Local Wisconsin, a lot of those tied to what are called social sustainability, and so I'm a sociologist by training. As a sociologist, I think that sustainability needs to be done holistically, and so that's, I guess, a little bit like. I'm a sociologist by training. I'm a practitioner of sustainability, and I'm not going to have somebody to do something I haven't already done myself or I haven't done with my clients.

Speaker 2: 2:11

I love that and I think what we're going to kind of see throughout this episode is you and I are going to overlap in a lot and I think that we have a lot of similar beliefs. So I'm excited to kind of like get into some nitty gritties with you. But I hear you. I mean, my last job was working for a solar company, so I was I felt like I was always preaching to the choir. I'm sitting here with solar panels on my roof, a heat pump running my AC.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Me too, me too.

Speaker 2: 2:35

Really hot day. The only thing I don't have because I'm a renter is I don't have an EV because I don't have the charger. But my landlord is really great to have solar. He just won't install the charger for me. But it's okay. We're excited by what we do have and we're excited for the future and getting a home.

Speaker 1: 2:53

Yay, which is awesome. And then when you get a home, just think about all the cool stuff you could do. Because of the inflation reduction act, there is so much money available and rebates and tax credits for you to do everything. And I, I do have an EV. I was the first business I don't see that article in the wall there. I was the first business in Wisconsin to take the all electric Nissan Leaf in 2012. So I've been driving electric cars since 2012.

Speaker 2: 3:13

You were doing it before. It was cool to do it.

Speaker 1: 3:15

I was yes, and my car is a little bit older, so my battery range is now what everybody else is, so I can go about 70 miles around trip. But I love her name is Bunny. I love my electric car because she's Jack, rapid, quick.

Speaker 2: 3:30

Oh, I love that. That's great. Okay, so staying on topic here, let's talk about Be Local Wisconsin. Give me an idea of what it. What is Be Local Wisconsin to you? What do you all work on? How did you form your role? Tell me whatever background you got, which is probably a lot.

Speaker 1: 3:54

So I have the pleasure of being one of our founders of Be Local Wisconsin. So back in 2017, we had six certified B Corp's in Wisconsin. My company was not a certified B Corp till 2018. But one of my clients was a certified B Corp, so I was representing them to this group of small but mighty Wisconsin based certified B Corp's and we decided it was time for us, we had enough, there was enough of us together to form Be Local Wisconsin, and it was also following on the heels of benefit corporation legislation being passed in the state of Wisconsin. So that was also kind of like the catalyst or the excitement, because then we were like, okay, now we can have benefit corporations and we have six certified B Corp. So yay, we're growing.

Speaker 1: 4:38

It's for a long time there was just, I mean, not even a handful of certified B Corp's in Wisconsin. So fast forward to 2023. We now have 23 certified B Corp's in Wisconsin, which is lovely we have. I don't know the total number of benefit Corp's, but I know of a probably about 20 organizations that have been started or come under the benefit corporation structure in the state, which is super exciting. And let's see our Be Local Wisconsin has grown and emerged.

Speaker 1: 5:09

We have been what's the word? We went from like a beginning Be Local to now we have a memorandum of understanding with B Lab. So we're officially in the Be Local program and we have a group of volunteers with us right now who are working on our 501c3 paperwork, because we are a fiscally sponsored nonprofit right now, but we're hoping sometime in the next year, year and a half, to be our own bona fide 501c3 organization. So we're working towards that and with that we've gotten some new members to our board, which is super exciting. Do you want me to talk about what our board looks like today, or do you want me to wait?

Speaker 2: 5:47

No, no, I would love for you to talk about your board structure. That would be great, okay.

Speaker 1: 5:51

So what's super cool about our little a little but mighty Be Local Wisconsin is that we have we've had a group of dedicated folks Since, like I said, I was one of the five co-founders and pretty much all of the co-founders, except for one, were chair at some point. So now it's my turn to be chair, and I wasn't able to until well last year just because of other commitments, other nonprofit commitments. So what we've done is, since I've become chair, is that we have tried to do a lot of recruitment and one of the things we've found is that, because we're in Wisconsin, there's lots of folks here who are associated with B Corpse, but those B Corpse may not be headquartered here. So when I say that there's 23 certified B Corpse in Wisconsin, those are the ones that are headquartered here, though I believe and I don't have a number but there's a lot more, many more people who are working for B Corpse in Wisconsin, but their B Corpse are located here. So what we've done is we've really tried to expand and reach out to everybody who, I'm saying, is tied to certified B Corpse in one way, shape or another, and we've been able to grow our board. So right now we have five chairs, and of the five chairs two of them are remote chairs. So Sarah Lissar, who works for Envest Microfinance, was the chair before me and last year she moved to Atlanta, georgia, but she works for a company called Envest. Their corporate headquarters is in Madison, wisconsin. So Sarah is joining B Local Wisconsin remotely and she's been a wonderful chair. So now she's progressing and she's not been recruited fully yet to Georgia, so she's still with B Local Wisconsin.

Speaker 1: 7:26

And then we were really excited this year. So she well, I guess December, january, end of last year, early this year, to recruit Dairy Matthew Burridge. He works for a company called Integrated Work and they just became a certified B Corp in December of last year and they're located out of Boulder, colorado, and Dairy is a consultant for them. And so he's now joined our chair, our committee, and he is chair of a new committee called the Libertory Action Committee. And let me tell you you're like whoa. What does that mean, lisa? At our last B Local Board meeting we unpacked it and I have to say I'm so grateful to Dairy's leadership here. So this is the definition Dairy brought to the board and then the whole board approved it.

Speaker 1: 8:07

The Libertory Action Committee exists to anchor justice, dignity and liberty at the center of B Local Wisconsin's foundation, our programmatic functions, our visionary direction and statewide impact. So in layman's terms, basically we're going to be running all of the different committee activities through the Libertory Action Committee to make sure that we are really centering these concepts of justice, dignity and liberty into all of our actions, which I am beyond excited about. I'm so happy to have Dairy on our board. And then the exciting thing is we have another committee member who just contacted me literally a week and a half ago and said Lisa, you know, I'm so excited to be part of B Local Wisconsin and she works for B Corp. It's out of California and she's like hey, can I be a chair? And I said we'd love to have you as a chair. So soon Kathleen Nickerson, who works at three degrees certified B Corp out of California, who lives in Wisconsin and she works remotely, will be chairing a new Climate Action Committee. I don't know the name of the committee yet because Kathleen's working on a definition and a title for her committee, but she'll be presenting that to us. We're doing a board retreat in July. So how exciting that literally half of our board are folks from outside of working for companies outside of Wisconsin are working remotely.

Speaker 1: 9:24

And I think just think to show is how people are changing post COVID, right, right, people are moving around.

Speaker 1: 9:30

You've got folks all over and I think if we could tap into passionate individuals from the B Corp movement, that just makes me so happy because we can't just grow up with the folks that are certified here because we're a small state and unlike the Coas that have lots more B Corp, so very excited about that.

Speaker 1: 9:48

And then the best part so we do have an international B Corp folks person. So Laura Lokes, who is on our events committee, she works for a B Corp called Edge Impact out of Sydney, australia, so she is one of our committee members. So again, I think the other thing is I have to put the plug in Wisconsin's awesome People want to live here Apparently. I mean, we know climate change is happening and it's real. So we also know that, whether it's this is numbers right, 17 to 25 million people have been projected to want to move to the upper Midwest the next 10 years. So I think by seeing that how our board is stacked up, I think it's kind of interesting. So we're already seeing folks from other states and other places. Working for companies remotely but living in Wisconsin.

Speaker 2: 10:35

That's such an interesting concept and I mean, clearly your local is very tapped into get finding those remote workers and making this remote culture for them and space for them to have a local culture, even if, like their co-workers, aren't down the street like traditionally pre-covid, like people were, and I think that's so important to build up a community where you are physically located and I see that your B local is doing that and I think it's very unique and I think it's super interesting and I I hope that People are able to learn from this and from your work and your leadership and see a way to Tap into remote workers in their states and not just be working only with the B locals that are headquartered in their states. And I'm not saying or suggesting that the B local communities ever are Exclusive, because I don't think that they are, but it sounds like you have done such this awesome job of opening that inclusivity to remote workers and Shows you you just asked people want to join well, and that's.

Speaker 1: 11:45

That's the thing I've had. Many people say, well, we can't be in your board because our B Corpus in Wisconsin. I'm like, no, you totally can. They're like, really, I'm like, yes, you can. And I think I think sometimes we're still kind of coming out of the the COVID, like we're in the COVID, hay is still we're coming out of it. And so with this new normal, I think sometimes people are revert back to the way it was before. But I'm like everything has changed. So we want you, if you, I'm like, if you live here, we want you to be involved, because everything, honestly, it's hyper local. But it comes down to it, right, everybody who's living in Wisconsin, they're voting in Wisconsin, so that's gonna have an impact and so if we can take the work we're doing and get it out to everybody who's here, I mean that's how we make change happen, right, it's all politics are local, right, right?

Speaker 2: 12:30

right, wait. So, speaking of the work that you are doing locally, I would love to kind of talk a little like get into the meat there and understand what is the work that the B local Wisconsin group is doing and if, if this is the first time that people are hearing about you, how can they help and get involved with their, with the work?

Speaker 1: 12:48

that you're doing. Okay, good question. I don't have an immediate ask for how people can get involved, though I do have to say if you are in Wisconsin and you want to get involved, please reach out right, because I think part of it is just getting the word out and just growing our movement. Let's see, okay, we're doing a lot of things. I think the biggest thing maybe this is the best way to crouch artwork is be local. Wisconsin's all about partnering with other entities to make, I'm gonna say, to bake in the social side of sustainability sustainability into the business world and then also into our communities and Into our government structures and the public policy work that's happening. So I think that Partnership is huge and I can tell you like last year we partnered with several other nonprofit organizations who are, I'm gonna say, providing education, because I'm in a purple state and I think sometimes, being in a purple state, education is the best tool possible to Help raise awareness and I mean, I know it's yes, we're educating people through the process, but I think you always have to meet people where they're at, and I feel like education is a really good tool to do that and and so with that, we partnered with some environmental nonprofits and energy nonprofits last year to help raise awareness about our SDG Action manager tool that you know the B lab has created a couple years ago and actually last week Tuesday it's so funny because so I'm.

Speaker 1: 14:22

I'm located in Waukesha County, which is a suburb between Milwaukee and Madison, so I'm halfway. So for more from my house, I'm halfway to Madison or Milwaukee they're both about 45 minutes away. But, being in Waukesha County, we're more of a conservative County in the state and as such, we wanted to do more business outreach to the business community here and back in 2019. We started planning an event which we ended up hosting, actually last Tuesday, was called the crash course and sustainability, and we partnered with the Wisconsin Sustainable Business Council, who is our large Business sustainability group in the state, and they've been an amazing partner to be local Wisconsin and they have a program it's called the green masters program. So it's kind of like the on ramp to sustainability and then our B impact assessment would kind of be once you've been doing their, their program, then you could do our program, because ours is, I think, a little bit it's ours, isn't for the faint of heart, right? Ours is the next step and so we work really well together, talking about the two programs kind of you know, in relationship to like where you're at and sustainability.

Speaker 1: 15:24

So we started planning this event 2019. We were going to host it in to the March or April 2020 COVID Happened, so we put it on hold and we were working with our local government. So the county local government and the idea came back around earlier this year and we just hosted it and the co, the co-organizer from Wisconsin Business Council, she and I kind of led it and it was so exciting because we had a great turnout, lots of amazing questions. I talked about the SDG action manager tool, the B impact assessment. Two of the three businesses that we showcase. We did like a little business showcase and a Q&A. Were two of them were certified B Corpse, which is also super exciting operating in Waukesha County and I feel like several years ago we we didn't have as many certified B Corpse and we didn't have as many tools right to talk about how to do programming and how to help empower businesses.

Speaker 1: 16:17

So last week it was just, it was lovely. I felt like the timing was right and I know going for 2019 to 2023 like the world has changed like five times over, right. But I feel like we hit the timing really well and being able to partner with our local government, to be able to partner with other business organizations I mean, like the Chambers of Commerce promoted our event, I mean it was just. It was so lovely to see that how to say this?

Speaker 1: 16:43

The excitement in the business community about sustainability, and not from a we have to do Sustainability because of compliance, because I've been in this space a really long time and there was a time when people were like, oh, we don't do sustainability, we're gonna not be in compliance and we may go out of business, right. So that those times have changed. Now it's about we understand that sustainability will help us to be more resilient, to help us address our risks, to lower our risk. You know To be to be well, be more resilient, but address risk from a holistic perspective. And because it has such high levels of uncertainty, I think during COVID, post COVID and with supply chain shortages, really bringing sustainability to your systems, it just makes perfect sense now, which is great. So I feel like we hit the tipping point.

Speaker 1: 17:30

But again, it's a partnership and and instead of at the event, it was all about let's provide tools, let's educate. So we weren't saying you have to be a B Corp. We weren't saying the B Corp to the bomb, which we know B Corps are awesome, right, but we weren't saying that. We were instead saying these are the challenges our B Corp's a face. So these are challenges businesses are facing and this is how we've dealt with them. And this ties back into the actions we're taking in social sustainability or environmental sustainability. Yeah, so does that can answer your question?

Speaker 2: 18:00

Yeah, it does. And I really appreciate how you said that, like you're using the B Corps in your local community as examples and you're not saying that like they've done it, the they've done it right or they've done it the best, but you're sharing, like, the struggles that they went through and the way that they solve for those struggles. And I think that sharing that process and that timeline of like Commitment to the work, to the hard work, to better the company is really, really powerful. So I Love that. Thanks for sharing that.

Speaker 1: 18:34

Yeah, well, and it's how you also, I think, meet people where they're at Mm-hmm, you know, because in a purple state, depending what words or language you use, it could be considered controversial or negative or good or bad. Right, so saying like this is what we've done, this is how we've done it, and it's a journey. I literally throughout our whole two and a half hour program, we would come back around and say it's a journey. Yeah, snap your fingers and all of a sudden you have a sustainable business. It's time, effort and energy and strategy.

Speaker 2: 19:05

Yeah, to me your passions are so strongly written on your sleeve, so I'm wondering, like, how are you having these hard conversations in the community about things that you are so passionate about and that your business is doing? And like, have you ever met a business that maybe doesn't believe in what you're doing? And like, how do you work through that?

Speaker 1: 19:27

So so evolution marketing, my company, will be 16 in September, so I've been operating a, a sustainability consultancy and marketing communications agency in Wisconsin and one of the most conservative counties, one might say, in the nation for almost 16 years. Here's the thing I this is really. I don't believe that People are like let's destroy the environment. I don't think anybody wants to do bad, right, I think that there's a lot of folks who may not Know about the repercussions of their actions. You gotta remember I'm in the state that literally the father of Earth Day came from our state, the first state in the country to have Earth Day. So I mean, and there's a huge, deep tradition of environmentalism in the state and resource conservation.

Speaker 1: 20:19

I grew up on a dairy farm With with a family. You know there was all there were huge at stores of the environment and I feel like many people want to store the environment and they just may not understand how things are interconnected together because, let's be honest, true sustainability is pretty complicated. It's got a level of complexities. I mean, look at the 17 SDGs. They're all interconnected together with 169 targets. Right, I like to unpack all of that. That's a lot, I mean. And if you haven't studied this in depth like I did in grad school. You'd be like, whoa, this is way over my head, right?

Speaker 2: 20:56

So, but as a little bit of a plug, if you don't know anything about the SDGs, you should listen to our podcast series on all of the SDGs.

Speaker 1: 21:03

I did from last, from the end of last year, yes, well, and that's a thing like the SDGs are amazing, right, they're this awesome framework and so. So one vector question of yes, I've had companies say they don't Believe that my methods make the most sense and I said that's fine, you don't have to work with my company, and I've also met people who have come to me is saying we want help, and I'm like but what they want is greenwashing, and I won't do that because, again, we're not, we're an ethical agency, right, so we won't do that. I will sit down with anybody and unpack Environmental sustainability as well as social sustainability. I don't have a problem doing that, but I think it's all we always have to come to. As a sociologist, when I talk to anybody, I find where we have commonality points, and so I think we need to establish shared meaning and then, from that shared meaning, you can have a conversation, but you you can't. It's not about me telling somebody what to do, right, it's about coming together and it's actually being an active listener, right, and understanding what somebody is asking and and having the words to, because part of this is that the world is changing really quickly and Maybe it's evolving really quickly and with that evolution comes new language, new systems, new technology, and I think that that's hard if you're not knee-deep in it. And there's a lot of things, like with AI, that I don't know anything at all about, like I know enough to be dangerous and I will say that, especially when you talk about Decarbonization, I mean my gosh, there's so much happening in the decarbonization space.

Speaker 1: 22:34

Again, we operate in a carbon neutral manner. Carbon is very important to me. We're doing actions that we can to address, you know, carbon in the properties that we own, but the reality is there's, there's technologies that just blow my mind and, again, I know just enough to be dangerous. So I think, coming at every conversation from the place of mutual respect and understanding and also grace my sister-in-law is a minister and she's always talking about how we respond in kindness and you respond with grace. I think that's really important, because shouting at somebody or getting into a heated debate is not the way to go, and I know that sometimes people think that that's okay. I'm not a big fan of that. I'm more along the lines of let's work together to come up with an understanding and let's move forward from that place of shared understanding.

Speaker 2: 23:26

I love that. And so to tie this back to be local Wisconsin, would you say that you all are doing this like through events, through educational programming, yes, but I think it's probably more about the educational programming that we're offering.

Speaker 1: 23:47

We did a series of Jedi trainings earlier this year Jedi Justice, equity, Diversity and Inclusion and so we have one of our first Black woman on the Corp Wisconsin. That was part of the level program in the first year. The woman's name runs at Her name's, august Ball and her company's Cream City Conservation. So she did Jedi training and this is what August does for a living with our with not only the members of the local Wisconsin but also anybody in Wisconsin.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Actually, we opened it up across the home. Yeah, anybody could attend it, but we had several nonprofits from Wisconsin that were part of it as well and folks that weren't even with the Corp to attend the training. So, I think, providing educational opportunities and lots of great resources and the opportunity to have conversations about topics that could be considered nuanced or difficult to talk about. And we bring in experts right, because we want to make sure that we're having these conversations in a way that is equitable and respectful and mindful of one another and I think that goes back to our Libertory Action Committee right, like all of the things that we're doing, we want to make sure it's benefiting everyone, you know, and that it's open and that's inclusive.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Cool. Can we talk about more of like how, as a B-local group, you saw the need or the want, or even the push for your Libertory Action Committee?

Speaker 1: 25:15

Yes, we can. So when we started our B-local Wisconsin, one of the I'm not gonna say issues, but one of the topics that our small little group of founders had talked about was what level of advocacy do we want to have? And I know, and in some places advocacy is a problematic word, in other places People love advocacy, so it's just. But I guess, what level of engagement and interaction in the processes did we want to have? And when we started, wisconsin was very different than Wisconsin is today. So a lot has changed as far as our local elected leaders I'm trying to think of the best way to like explain this and so as the elected leaders in our state changed, that, that had an impact on the way business was done, to the point of, as a woman-owned business, I was able to recertify as a woman-owned business in the state of Wisconsin, which had won away, and now we again can recertify as a minority-owned business. So to me those were those really important, to have those programs and to be able to showcase that we have folks who have businesses that are doing good stuff, you know. Anyway, so as the political environment changed with our local elected officials, so too with COVID. Covid came and changed, I think, turned upside down on its head how people work and what we think about work, and because work has changed so dramatically, that has opened up a space, or was able to hold space, for what I call social sustainability.

Speaker 1: 27:04

In Wisconsin we have the large number of manufacturers of any state per capita in the country and so since we have such a large manufacturing base, manufacturers are very powerful in our state and the things that impact manufacturers then kind of translate out to other businesses and I've worked with a variety of manufacturers over the years and many are engaged in really cool sustainability stuff. But I think this whole idea of remote workers and this idea of how do we structure an environment where people are still able to work but that's safe, right, I think all of these things have refocused or put a spotlight on what does emotional well-being look like? What does social emotional learning look like? What does social emotional well-being look like? What does safety look like? It's no longer just physical safety, it's mental safety. I mean there's all of these new conversations that are occurring for at least the first time in my professional career, which is wonderful, right, and as a social sociologist I'm like this is awesome and this is what I want to school, to study, and one might argue that we're addressing social problems in a way that we never have had before.

Speaker 1: 28:09

And so, as all of those things are happening, then our B Corp community is also growing and we are it's the right word, we are attracting to the B Corp community manufacturers, and so, as we're attracting more manufacturers to the B Corp community, some of these topics are coming from the mainstream into the B Corp world and we're talking about it at our B local. We're trying to figure out, okay, what is the best way to address some of this and how to create or how to bake in sustainability or social and environmental performance into the DNA of a company. And so, as those things are all kind of emerging together, the idea of I'm not gonna say political action, it's not political action, it's policy advocacy, it's how do we advocate as businesses, for policies that are beneficial to our workforce, to our community, and so all of these things are kind of happening simultaneously together, and that's why, when we had, when Dairy joined our board and we talked about you know how do we create a committee around, at the time I was using the words Jedi, you know. So, justice Secretary, diversity and inclusion. And Dairy's like I don't want to be Jedi, I want to be a liberatory action and this is why. And so having that conversation with Dairy and then Dairy sharing that with our entire board and the whole board saying, yeah, we get it, because we're such a different place in 2023. And we were in 2017.

Speaker 1: 29:32

And here's a data point that blows my mind and it might blow your mind too. I'm not sure, but did you know that business this is a global number, so this is from the Elder Men Trust Survey but business is the most trusted entity in the world today 62% of the people in the world trust business over nonprofits and government. I mean that blows my mind, right. So I mean, part of this is I'm really excited because, as a social enterprise, a troubled bottom line business I'm like yay, there's almost 7000 certified B Corpse, so clearly like we're all having an impact right. But I'm also like oh gosh, that's a whole lot of responsibility that we as the business people and the business leaders have.

Speaker 1: 30:17

And I think what that speaks to in the CPG consumer package goods space customers want to buy from brands that are engaged in environmental and social. You know positive things or you know, positive impacts, right, and they want the more environmentally sustainable products. I mean the same thing with foods, you know, the whole new thing is like it used to be just what you ate. Now it's like what you put on your body, what you eat, what's around you. I mean it's, it's, it's everything now.

Speaker 1: 30:44

So all of these shifts, I think, are again coming back to this how do we, as a B local Wisconsin, how do we show up and how do we lead in that space? Right, and one of the things I talked about before is partnerships. Right. So we have had every year the Wisconsin Steel Business Council has a conference and every year at that conference we've had folks in the B Corp community speak in sessions and panels and we've had a booth at this conference for well, since we started B local Wisconsin, so for at least the last five, six years now. And I think showing up in a mainstream, sustainable business space as B local Wisconsin and having speakers talk in sessions and in panels and partnering with the Wisconsin Steel Business Council to cross promote our activities, our programs, I think has been really important because we're able to, to, to, to be out there leading in this space and showing how we can do things in a more equitable manner. For lack of a better way of saying it, does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 31:42

Yeah, yeah it does, it makes sense and it's. It's also really interesting to understand your thinking and your reasoning behind it, and hopefully others can understand that and see that and replicate it too, Because that that's what the B Corp community is about, yeah, and when you got to meet people where they're at right, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:03

So being in the room with leaders from other sustainability there's some other mainstream companies it's really important and having those conversations, you know, that's, I think that's how we move that ball forward, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 32:15

Yeah, In B local Wisconsin. I'm wondering what B Corps are like, your major players and what are helping you do this work. And I know that we've talked about there being B Corps that are headquartered in Wisconsin and then there being this very large remote worker force driving you forward. But what are those B Corps look like? What does the culture look like and how is the B Corp themselves like getting involved to help you drive the work forward of B local Wisconsin?

Speaker 1: 32:44

Okay, so it's interesting, um, I think. Well, I think this is interesting. Some might laugh out loud when I say this, but many of the B Corps who are leading in Wisconsin are woman-led or woman-owned, and to the point of we've had people say it seems like B Local Wisconsin is only women, I guess a women's B Corp group and we're like, no, no. And now we have this year we've recruited some additional males to our board, which is lovely as our board has grown, but I think a lot of the heavy lifting has really been done by small certified B Corps that are woman-led or woman-owned in this state. With that said, I think we've also done something and I don't know if other B Locals have done this or not, but we have leaned in to our areas of expertise. So, when you look at our board, our chair of marketing, melina Marcus, is the co-founder of Rebel Green, so a CPG company doing really cool stuff, great environmental response with products. She's a Marcom expert. I mean, she's like their chief marketing officer, right, and she and I worked with a group of folks last year to produce the first ever B Local Wisconsin video and we leaned into our Marcom expertise. We have one of our B Local members. Who's on our marketing committee? Ren works for Just Coffee Co-operative out of Madison. Ren is a graphic designer. She's amazing, super talented graphic designers. So we've used Ren's artwork and then we've really, I mean, leaned into what we're good at and I think because of that we're able to do things that might be more challenging for other B Locals if you don't have folks that have these experiences. And so, really, event planning, I mean we've done some really great events because most of our board really folks who have done some level of event planning in their professional careers. So I think leaning on those experiences has helped us to leverage our abilities. And also, again, if you haven't seen our B Local Wisconsin video, I want everybody to go watch it Blocalwisconsinorg. There's this great three minute video and it showcases the 17 certified B Corpse we had last summer and now we have 23 in the state. But I think that video does a great job of saying this is who we are and, again, raising awareness. But we thought about doing a video because several of us have video production, marketing, communications experience and I think that that's been really good for B Locals.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Again, leaning into the planning, the education, we've done a variety of different educational programs over the years. I mean, honestly, in 2018, we hosted a I think it was a three hour deep dive workshop into the B Impact Assessment and there were about 20 people in the room. Half the people in that room are now certified B Corpse, but they came to our deep dive. So I think we leaned in on the things we're really good at in our state or in our member companies and because of that, then we're able to leverage those experiences, the talents of our different, diverse staffs.

Speaker 1: 35:49

The other thing is we're really lucky to have like from Brewery they're in Milwaukee, so they're certified B Corpse Brewery and they were the first gluten free beer in the country and I believe the first also, I believe it was organic gluten free. They've got a lot of really cool designations, but Kelsey, who is their tax and compliance person, she has been amazing for events, so we have like a built in beer hall that will help us with events, and so Kelsey was our event Maven, so she was the event chair previously. They're going through research right now so she she's on the committee, but she stepped out from being chair. But I mean having again this expertise of folks who are working in these spaces, who know how they work, who are they're able to lean in. You know, and I think I think that's the most important thing Figure out who your volunteers are, figure out what they're good at and what they're passionate about, and then tap into. That would be my, you know, advice.

Speaker 2: 36:43

I like that. I like that a lot. And also like knowing and sitting on a B local myself, like seeing that as the volunteers change and as the committee chairs change, because we had very strict like term policies for B local Boston but like the board should be flexible and should change with the volunteers passions and not have such a rigid mission or like outcome that defines a successful board. And I think that you're saying that B local Wisconsin is doing this very well and I think that B local Boston also did this very well, especially with like the policy work that we did, but changing the outcome of what the board works on with the volunteers.

Speaker 1: 37:32

So, yeah, you have to be fluid, I think. I think Colbert taught us that right you have to be fluid. And we only had so many people, so I mean, for the long time there was literally a handful of us and so we all did what we were good at Right, Well, and if you're not good at it, you're not going to want to do it for a volunteer role, and then you're going to have volunteers drop off.

Speaker 1: 37:55

Exactly. So you know again, meet the volunteers where they're at and what they're, what they're passionate about. So yeah, cool.

Speaker 2: 38:01

Well then, speaking of passions and work that people are doing, I want to switch to a little bit more of your personal work. So, as I understand it and correct, me if I'm wrong here, but you recently presented on workforce development education at a conference that was hosted by Generator, which is a new B Corp in the space, and Generator is a incubator for startups. Is that correct?

Speaker 1: 38:30

That is correct, and their corporate headquartered on a Milwaukee, wisconsin, and so the funny. So who is on? Who is a new board member as well as their director of social impact? I believe he's a social impact director at Generator, so he was at this conference last week in Minnesota and I was talking about how to future proof your workforce by using the B impact assessment or using, you know, samples from the B impact from the B Corp space, right, and I think it's pretty amazing. Yes, so I'm super passionate about workforce and social sustainability, because if we don't have workers, what are we going to? We can't do business if we don't have workers. Right, and COVID again has taught us that we need to treat our workers in a respectful manner. I feel like for a long time, workers have been treated as a commodity and not as human beings with dignity and respect and their own liberty over their actions, and I feel like this is where we're going.

Speaker 1: 39:31

So some some fun facts or maybe they're not so fun, maybe it's a scary fact, but at least it's calling it a fun fact. There is. There was a report that came out a couple years ago. It's called the coming sand dummy, and sand dummy means without people, and so from 1971 on, americans have not, have not reproduced themselves, have not had a replacement ratio. So for the last 50 years, americans, the population, has decreased, and so now we're at a point where we don't have enough workers to fill jobs, and so it's a very sombering fact. I think a lot of people right now we're saying, oh, it's a trend, like, oh, in five years it'll be fine, our AIOs going to solve all the problems. No, it's not a trend. We're at a worker shortage and we're going to be for a long time to come. And we're now seeing how businesses are reorganizing themselves. So maybe a restaurant used to be open seven days a week, from 7am till 10pm a night. Now the restaurant is open five days a week, from 7am to 3pm, because they can't find workers to work in the business.

Speaker 1: 40:36

And I understand that. Maybe we're seeing it more profoundly in Wisconsin than people are seeing in other places, but it's coming. It's not. It's going on in the Midwest, towards the coast, because the reality is we just don't have people, right? So now that means we, as those of us in workforce development space, need to rethink Well, how do we want to recruit workers? And this is where I think it's pretty amazing, and I know you had a podcast with Joseph Kenner from Grayson Bakery talking about the work that they are doing, which I'm a huge fan of, and open hiring is awesome sauce. I love it and I think that's just one of a a barrier to different examples of ways that business can rethink how they are going to work with their or engage their workforce.

Speaker 1: 41:21

I think there's a lot of other ways, such as deemphasizing that you have to have a four-year degree or a master's degree to do a job. I don't know if you know this, but according to projections from the state of Wisconsin these came out in the late, like 2016, 2017, that by 2025, only about 35% of the workers are going to be required to have a four-year degree. And we're now seeing it, now that we're and I should say, I'm also on our regional workforce development board, so I've been on this board for, I think, 13 years now I'm currently the vice chair of it. So to me, like I've been watching these numbers come out, these projections, and now it's happening. The thing is that many more jobs of the future are going to require some type of a certificate or a specific skill set, so no longer a four-year degree or an MBA. I mean, of course, there's always going to be jobs where you have to have a degree. I mean a lawyer, a doctor, right, those are requirements but what we're finding is that many of the jobs of the future it's going to be specific skill sets, and this is where I get really excited. So, as somebody who's in sustainability, there was a beautiful report that came out by the Blue Green Alliance, and the Blue Green Alliance looked at national level data and they said that we're going to need 9 million people to have green skills in the next 10 years. So basically, over the next 9 to 10 years, every year there's going to be about a million people that are added to the workforce that are working in blue or green skills.

Speaker 1: 42:48

So green skills means anything tied to the environment. Blue is tied to water and it's from a holistic standpoint. So it's not saying that everybody who's going to get a blue or green skill is going to be a sustainability manager. No, no, no. What we mean is you might be somebody who works in residential homes and you're doing air sealing on that home. Well, you, having the ability to understand an energy audit, could be considered a blue skill. Right, because if you don't have an energy audit, you don't know if an energy audit has not occurred on a home, you don't know where to do the air sealing and insulation right, or if you need insulation or not right, so being able to read that report could be literally considered a blue skill. I'm sorry, a green skill is what I meant. The same thing, you could do a water audit right, and so being able to read a water audit would be a blue skill.

Speaker 1: 43:38

So all of these jobs are coming that are going to require blue and green skills. So that's a huge thing and I think it's pretty amazing. According to LinkedIn, one of the fastest growing areas in the LinkedIn database is literally jobs that have green I have to stop saying blue that have green skills associated with them. And I just read this report from LinkedIn that I found a little disconcerting. They argue that they're going to have a green skills deficit.

Speaker 1: 44:06

So you know how we've been talking about the last I don't know five to eight years, that we have a skills gap in the workplace, right?

Speaker 1: 44:14

Well, the new thing is we're having a green, it's projected to have a green skills.

Speaker 1: 44:20

We're gonna have a deficit in green skills, so that many of these new jobs that are coming are going to have green skills. The other thing is I wanna say the number is 50%, but don't quote me on it it's something like 50% of jobs by 2025, we don't even fully know what those titles of those jobs and all the characteristics of those jobs are, because so much is emerging and this is where you get into the AI and also just more technological changes that are shaping how we do work right. So it's interesting. All these things are emerging and I am hopeful that, with the emergence of blue and green skills being more prominent, that's gonna also help attract younger people. When I say younger people, individuals under 40, we know for sure millennials are very interested in addressing climate change, and the same thing with Gen Z. So hope that will help to attract younger people to professions that you may not think about as being a green skilled profession or a blue skilled profession, but it's adjacent to it because of some of the skills that are there.

Speaker 2: 45:19

I'm also wondering if the way that the job market, workforce development, is shifting into these. You don't need a certificate, you don't need to go to college, you don't need degrees, you only need certifications. I'm wondering if this is a little bit tied to the fact that younger populations are getting raised on this what do you call it when it's like they need that immediate satisfaction? Oh sure, and they're switching through hobbies or topics or interests faster than what used to be known. And I'm wondering if we're starting to see that people want to test out a job or a career quicker than in the past, in the sense of like, okay, people would declare a major and do an internship and then that's what they would do when they come out of college. And are we shifting cultures now into this workforce development where it's like take a certification, take a course, do that job for X years and switching of your careers is becoming more popular?

Speaker 2: 46:32

I mean, I've had this conversation so many times with my mother where she's been in the same industry for 40 years, like her entire career has been in one industry, whereas one could argue that I very deeply just uprooted and switched careers fully, and I'm still under 30. So like to think that within the first five, 10 years of my career I already have seriously switched and there are younger people coming into their professional career sooner. Because I would like to thank you and hope that we're switching culture away from forcing people to go to college so people can get into the trades or getting to their career sooner. And if they do, does that mean that they're more likely to switch later on and maybe this certification of green skills hopefully becomes more of like the future and people care more deeply for their passions in their work? I don't know, are you following what I'm saying?

Speaker 1: 47:35

So I am one. So what I would say is what's interesting is you're talking about some of the trends we are seeing. So one of the things that we know, the data shows us, is that the idea of a career ladder that's out the window. It's now like a career zigzag, career path. We're also starting to see, instead of just being like you were doing this one job and you're in this little silo, it is now cross training, interdisciplinary trained folks, which again I think speaks to your point of younger people want to be part of the solution, and we know that the data says and I've had so many under 25 year olds telling me this it's not even funny, but I don't wanna work for a company that is not engaged in sustainability. It's not a B Corp, it doesn't have any sustainability credentials at all. I won't even look at those jobs and the jobs, the companies I am looking at, if they're doing those things.

Speaker 1: 48:29

I wanna be part of the solution. So I wanna be able to get a job at a B Corp and maybe be doing something in the B Corp that requires a specific skill. Maybe I'm doing web development, but I also wanna be able to be on the green team for that company, or the sustainability team or the wellness team, the corporate social responsibility Again, I'm not married to the team name, but there's a variety of different teams exist and I wanna be on that team and I wanna contribute to be part of the solution, not the problem. I wanna help that company to find success in what they're doing and so to me that's the new model. So how do you and this, I think, ties directly into that green and blue skills right, because somebody might be doing web development but they're very passionate about supporting the local farmers and local farmer market and giving time to donate, being paid through their job, to donate time to help the farmers market grow or to help farmers be successful or pick something. Right, and I think that's the new model. Right, and we see it in the B Corp community because it's very clear at the B Corp community level, other businesses that are B Corp adjacent, I think we're seeing it happen, but it's not happening at the level. It is within our community.

Speaker 1: 49:38

Right, because there's an expectation that you're able to donate your time if you work for a certified B Corp.

Speaker 1: 49:44

There's an expectation that there's an internal community and committee that you're on, where you're able to take action right and again, whatever type it could be wellness, you know what I mean Just whatever topic is really important and relevant to you and you wanna help shape that company. So I think that's going on and I also think that there's this emergence of and I'm not sure I don't know what to call it, but it's like this new way of working and I think that's what you're trying to get at, brittany. Is that this new way of working is you're in a company and you're doing a job and then you see, oh, this person over here is doing something that I'm really interested in. Let me see if I can get cross-trained. And let me talk to my boss and say, maybe in a year cross-training, then maybe a year I wanna do that as half of my job. And there's just a willingness, I think, or a willingness to the right word. But there's a different way of thinking about position descriptions and what you're doing in a position.

Speaker 2: 50:45

I don't know what the proper language is Well, and it's funny because, as you were saying this, I wasn't sure where you were going to go with it. So I'm like writing notes to myself and I'm like companies need to be more holistic in how they define success in the workforce and in the workplace. And to stick with your same example if you're a web developer and you're looking for somebody with web development skills, success of that role can't just be they made your new website and your website looks gorgeous and it's user-friendly. That can't be the only success anymore. It has to be how did my web developer also assist in the sustainability team and how did they make this website more environmentally friendly on the backend? How is it using less product, less energy?

Speaker 1: 51:41

Right, yes, exactly, optimize it for energy. Yep, exactly, you hit it, that's exactly it and that's the shift. That's happening right, and it's interesting because it's coming from both the workforce standpoint and, I think, from the market. And I think the businesses that are in the middle are kind of like this is a lot, it's overwhelming to them. But I think in our B-corp space or more holistically thinking, businesses are like oh, we can go with this, we can go with the flow. It's okay because we're operating a little bit differently, because we have these governance principles in place, so we're gonna have our principles kind of lead us. And I think the shift is also going from top down leadership to everybody as a leader, right, it's just how you show up on a daily basis, versus just saying, oh, you're supervisor, you're manager, the director makes the decisions. Well, okay, I know there's a lot of companies out that way, but I would argue that the future is that we are all leaders, we're all treated with dignity and respect and responsible for our piece of the pie, right.

Speaker 2: 52:48

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. This does make me continue to think about future of workforce and I will say I've been seeing a lot of studies lately about the numbers for clean energy jobs and how they're on the rise. But I'm always sitting here and I'm like, well, what does a clean energy job entail? And I constantly have this debate. I guess I'll say it's not an argument, it's a very passion-driven conversation and it's like could you be the receptionist or the benefits on-border for a construction company that is always doing energy efficiency in the root of their work and, as the HR specialist, are you considered? Is that a clean energy job, or do you have to be like the wind turbine installer who's hanging off the edge as you're setting up the wind turbine?

Speaker 1: 53:55

So, okay, that's a great question, and I literally just had the conversation with one of our people at the state of Wisconsin. We were talking about that and she's trying to do a what's it called An inventory. She's trying to do an inventory of what do the sustainability jobs in Wisconsin look like? And so, underneath that, you have clean energy, you have energy efficiency, you have renewable energy. I mean, you have all these different categories. But I feel like I've been working in this space for 16 years and I don't know if anybody considers the work that I'm doing to be. I mean, I work with renewable energy companies, I do sustainability stuff and I do Mark-Com right. So I'm in this special little niche and I don't think I'm ever counted in their surveys or data. And, as we know from the Inflation Reduction Act, there's gonna be a whole lot of money for people to use things for their homes and right now, many of the people that are working in homes are not considered clean energy or renewable energy or even energy efficiency jobs. And so I think we're gonna how is this going? I think we're gonna be relabeling, renaming, refocusing maybe how we think about work and the work that you're doing. I think that ties in with the Blue Green Alliance's report, right, about 9 million jobs with green skills, and with LinkedIn saying we're going to have this green skill shortest. I think it's like a reshuffling, it's like a reorganization of how we think about these jobs and what skills. So LinkedIn talks about skills. So they say we're able to parse out from job descriptions the specific skills that are there. So I think that that's where we're going.

Speaker 1: 55:41

I think that's the space that we're moving into and I'm curious to see what it looks like, because there isn't a lot of good data. There's how many solar companies have installed solar panels right, like that's a number that we have. That's really clear. But we don't have data on how many residential companies are helping homeowners to make their homes more energy efficient. I mean, we know that there's a lot of small companies, but we don't know that there's how many big companies are doing this. If any big companies are doing this, you know. So I think, unpacking it, how many electricians are installing EV charging stations? To me that's like a green skill right.

Speaker 2: 56:16

Right, right, I know we need somebody very high above who has like federal law to restructure. What clean energy jobs are like? How you label clean energy jobs? We need a very clear definition like federal government. Aren't you listening? Can you give us what we are asking for?

Speaker 1: 56:37

I think the Inflation Reduction Act does talk about some of that, but I think it's what I've run across and I'm not an expert, but I know enough to be dangerous that gradually things are defined one way state level to define something else and then in the work world, in the business world, they're defined in another way. So that's what I'm finding is that there's all these different data points with different labels, but nothing's consistent, Right, right?

Speaker 1: 57:03

So, that's why I think the state of Wisconsin is trying to do this inventory, because they're trying to figure out what are those jobs, what are those look like here? How are we defining it in Wisconsin, which I think I'm guessing most states are probably trying to figure that out right now, with knowing that we're getting millions and billions of dollars of Inflation Reduction Act into our state? So how do we capitalize on that and take advantage of it to help our workers and create a pipeline right for skills and talent for people to do those jobs Right?

Speaker 2: 57:31

right, man, I could keep this conversation going for hours, but I think I know I think we need to wrap it up here. But I will say maybe there's a part two coming on workforce development.

Speaker 1: 57:45

So let me, let me know, I could talk for like 16 hours but we're forced development and I had I'm just I hit like the tie level Like there's so much, right?

Speaker 2: 57:55

So let's do that one more, okay? Well, let's leave it there. Let's leave our listeners on a little bit of a cliffhanger and we'll tease out workforce development, which isn't workforce development month in September.

Speaker 1: 58:07

It is in September. Yes, and look at me, I have a client that I'd love to bring on with me to talk about what cool thing that's happening in Wisconsin.

Speaker 2: 58:15

Oh, cool, okay, so listeners maybe listen for a new series in September.

Speaker 1: 58:21

Workforce development.

Speaker 2: 58:23

Well, lisa, I want to say thank you so much for your time today. This was so fun, so educational. I know that I brought you on to talk about Be Local Wisconsin, but I learned so much more, so thank you for sharing all of your passion with us. Is there anything else that you want to say?

Speaker 1: 58:40

Thank you for having me and go to belocalwisconsinorg to learn more at. Evolution Markets website is greenmktingcom. We have lots of free resources on our website too.

Speaker 2: 58:52

Very awesome, and I will be sure to link both of those things in the show notes, as well as so much more. So check those out. Thank you, everybody for listening.