Responsibly Different™
We started this channel in 2020 exploring how to best use business as a force for good utilizing our B Corp certification journey as our lens. Now, in 2025, we’re taking what we’ve learned and applying it more deeply to our industry of strategic media planning and buying. Tune in to our new Fireside series which are candid conversations amongst our team about the latest news in the industry, explore our upcoming Impact Chats episodes to uncover the power and role of media in shaping culture and examining the social and environmental impacts of our industry.
Responsibly Different™
Where Discovery Meets Purchase: Shoppable Media's Revolution
Retail media is evolving, and so are consumer expectations. In this episode, Chris Marine and David Gogel are joined by Max Mullinix from SmartCommerce to explore how brands can reduce friction in the shopper journey and create seamless, omnichannel experiences. From leveraging programmatic channels to harnessing platforms like Pinterest for product discovery, we dive into how technology is reshaping retail marketing. Plus, we break down the critical role of inventory management in delivering a flawless consumer experience. Tune in to hear about how brands can stay ahead in a rapidly changing landscape.
Welcome to Fireside, a responsibly different podcast where we spark candid conversations about media investments and the strategies shaping the way we connect.
Speaker 3:I'm Chris Marine here with David Gogel of Campfire. Also joining us around the campfire is Max Mullenix and we're super excited. A because it's the start of B Corp month. So happy B Corp month for all our B Corp listeners out there, exciting time to be in community with everyone. But also we're coming up on Expo West and by the time some people hear this, they might be hearing it during Expo West while they well, maybe at the end of their long day, their exciting day, or maybe it's, you know, following their Expo West week. But we're really excited to talk and have Max on our campfire because we're going to chat about the changing shopper journey and everything that is kind of retail media shopper journey and everything that is kind of retail media omni-channel and just how we can remove that friction and get people discovering new ways that they can be adding to cart and getting new products that they love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks for the invite and looking forward to the talk.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know we were thinking a lot about this because of all the brands that we're talking to around Expo, os, but also just right now we're having so many conversations with early stage consumer packaged goods companies, food and beverage companies as they try and navigate this landscape right when they're thinking about, hey, maybe they're getting into retail for the first time, or they're starting to think about their retailer mix and trying to manage how to support kind of the retailers that they're trying to show love to, but also kind of maybe new product inventory challenges and things like that. So just, I'm really energized about this space because it seems like you all have a lot of solutions there. But this is just so topical for us as we talk to more and more regional challenger brands that are trying to scale, and it seems like you're you know you have a number of solutions that are relevant here. So real jazz for the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too, me too. Yeah it's. It's a really interesting space right now. You know, many years ago everybody was just worried about being on the channel, and right now it's like how do we drive commerce to these channels from all these wild places and what new places could we drive commerce there from? And you know, we see a lot of creative things in the market right now and you know I feel very fortunate to be a part of it at this point. It's very, very cool where it's heading.
Speaker 3:And we were talking about this the other day, Max, the interesting thing about that you help folks with is really thinking about that omni-channel presence to what you're kind of just speaking with, Because I think, especially as more people are trying to figure out the continuing fragmented ecosystem of retail media because it's just splintering out I think there's over 200 different retail media networks now because it's just splintering out. I think there's over 200 different retail media networks now. We were talking about how the really neat thing with smart commerce and the solutions that you guys offer is that you can not be thinking about these many different silos but really be thinking about connecting it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, you're right. I mean there are a ton of arm in right now. So when we look at how brands are having to work with all the retail media networks across, you know they're really trying to drive commerce to the retail. They're trying to show that relationship building and they're trying to introduce new consumers to these places of purchase constantly. And how to get them from that point of media where they meet the brand and how to get to that retailer point. That path to purchase is important for the brand. So, you know, I like to think of us as like a one-to-many solution, you know, and when you see one-to-many solutions that go from a retail touchpoint or a media touchpoint to a retailer, you know there's a lot of them out there touch point or a media touch point to a retailer, you know there's a lot of them out there. There's some. But you know we like to believe that our benefit is really reducing friction. That's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1:So a consumer, they're just constantly met with all these obstacles these days, you know, so, realistically, all they want to do is be on that social channel. They're watching cat videos. That's what they're really doing, you know it. They're like oh man, that looks like a great product. That's awesome, you know, we want to make sure that, you know, consumers are allowed to put a product in a cart so they can remember it later. They can convert on it instantly, whatever they can do, into the retailer of their choice, because that's really what's important to them, and then they get back to their cat video. That's really the goal. So simplicity is everybody's best friend at this point. That's really what I'm seeing in the market.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and on that, max, I mean obviously we try and stay away from deep research on this podcast and keep it very conversational, but I did, I think, a few months ago, when you guys put out the 2025 kind of retail shopper landscape report. I remember seeing I forget the exact stat, but it was something like nearly half of folks do move from scrolling to carding and I think that was a really powerful stat and I'm remembering it because we've used it a lot when talking with our clients and potential partners. When people ask, like, how do I move somebody from product discovery to carding? Um, in a way that feels to, to your point, frictionless. So can you, can you share just at a very high level, like the, the work that you all are doing there and how you guys think about that journey from product discovery and scrolling to carding?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I mean I think it's like not just like for smart commerce, but you know the industry in general is looking to reduce that. You know it's like we go from awareness how do we get to conversion right away and how do we get to carding? So how we think about that is consumers have decision fatigue. That's just a reality. They do so when they encounter a product that they can connect with for a specific reason, whether it be their organic ingredients, their organic ingredients, their locale, their you know their branding, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:In a general thing, they want to be able to remember that or cart it or purchase it instantly. You know so we just allow that path to purchase, just to be instant, like drop it in the cart, go, they get back to what they're doing. But that average order value consideration is pretty high right now, you know. So we back to what they're doing, but that average order value consideration is pretty high right now, you know so we used to think, oh yeah, it's a $5. Good yeah, they'll cart it. Oh man, a consumer will cart anything from a social channel at this point, or an ad or a media unit. It's just that's where we're at right now.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say I mean, and there's really good learnings that we found from running campaigns with smart commerce and understanding that a lot of brands are quick to optimize their campaigns towards traditional media metrics like clicks, those type of engagement metrics. But what has been interesting for us is to be able to say that we understand that clicks don't tell a lot of the story. So we were able to compare hey, you might have fewer clicks in this region or in the you know, in this geo, but your click people adding to cart is much higher. We're able to like, drill in and be like. So these are the people in areas maybe we really should be focusing on more versus just those traditional engagement metrics. So that, like that click to cart measurement, is a really interesting piece to for for greater learning. I know for some of the brands we've worked with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I totally agree, Chris, you know, because it really. Yeah, everybody will take a look at something, but you know what is equaling higher consideration, you know. So I know personally I'm just trying to collapse the funnel. That's it Like we're just trying to collapse the funnel. How do we go from point A to point B faster? You know, and like I was saying earlier, decision fatigue is real. So the funnel collapse is important to some of the consumers these days, and many of them, especially in those social channels or, as we see, you know a consumer that's seeing a product introduced. They're like, oh yeah, that's cool instantly and they want to go right away.
Speaker 4:So yeah, and Max, something else that we've been talking a lot with. You know, when we're talking again because we spend so much time talking with early's a number of opportunities that get opened up there, right For that retailer being able to think about lookalike, audience targeting, thinking about using the product that was just added to cart for future retargeting Again, even if there isn't a checkout action. Just getting it to cart opens up a whole number of possibilities. Can you expand on that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean obviously getting a product to cart. Retailer retargeting is going to kick in and you know you're going to get some SEO out of it and you know it's helping the brand just get more visibility. But you know once that retailer relationship, they can see that metric, like, hey, it's going to that cart, we can show that relationship building. You know, I know a lot of where we see the biggest conversion is usually out of single retailer carting or direct carting. You know that's where your largest conversions come, because you're going straight to a cart.
Speaker 1:That's where a lot of the you know a lot of the benefits are happening in the market right now is, you know, the more amount of like stop points between point A and point B. You're just getting a lot of drop off, you know. So everybody's like yeah, yeah, I'm tired of doing that, let's go. But but no, there are a ton of benefits to it. And the data side that that brands get back to highlight what Chris was saying it just gives them a broader view of who that consumer is, where they're coming from and where they're going. So you can really digest that path to purchase a little bit better and go. Yeah, those are the real people that are actually considered and they're really wanting this and these are the type of consumers. So that's helping brands a lot through their process these days.
Speaker 3:Our hope is it'll help brands too. We work with a lot of purpose-led brands and one way we've been talking about it is how we can. Traditionally, people will use this kind of technology for just their kind of product price type advertising. We're like, if you actually build your messaging around your values and make those values shoppable, that's another way that you can align what people are looking for in a really meaningful way and actually make what used to be sending people down this path of discovery in a different way to understand what a brand is about, to make those different touch points shoppable along the way of their learning around the brand's impact space. So really excited about that area too, to help close that value action gap a bit.
Speaker 1:That's a really really good thing too, so really excited about that area too, to help close that value action gap a bit. That's a really really good thing too. Companies are just so good at getting their message out and it's so clear these days that agencies are dialing in and media companies are dialing in how to make that brand building so quality and so high that when they meet that brand and they can connect with that brand instantly, they really do want to act on that action. Like how do you go from that impulse like oh, I love what they're about and take it right to an actionable impact, like how does that happen? And that's where we see value in the industry right now is, you know, a lot of brands. They drive this awareness. Well, how do you show the value of that awareness to leadership? Or how do brands, like, really measure that overall? But you know, we're able to help those brands through that process and show measurable outcomes of driving that awareness to an action.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and Max, when we think about product discovery, which is obviously what we're talking about here. One of the platforms that we've been really excited about lately is Pinterest, and you know, I know you all have done a lot of work thinking about product discovery with Pinterest and how that fits within the funnel. Can you talk a little bit about that? And again, just because we are talking so much with brands that have never been on Pinterest before or maybe have been on Pinterest organically and are thinking about a paid strategy or are relaunching brands and asking the question like how does Pinterest play in here? So can you just talk a little bit through the way that that plays into the funnel as you're thinking about it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I mean, obviously, pinterest is such a great platform. It's just so authentic and real and consumers especially with health goods or high-quality ingredients goods are goods that they connect with on a, you know, on a brand level. That's more intimate, you know so Pinterest allows them to be able to share those or pin them. And you know, we, what we like to do is we can share, integrate with, like a save, share, pin, and that allows that consumer to take action with that partner that they like. And we do that off of certain media types.
Speaker 1:You know so, but it's, it's really, you know, I think the social channels are constantly changing and they change so fast. And I know you, you, chris and David, you, you see this all the time. Where's hot right now? What brands can align with those channels? What is it? And you're dialing in these things constantly. You're masters at that.
Speaker 1:So we just try to be like I like to say, we're everything everywhere all at once. And how do we make that accessible for a brand and then simplify it for them? How can you make something and then deploy it in minutes? Well, you know, I think that's the benefit of how people are integrating shoppable media and you know how brands are embracing that these days, because it's not just CPG goods right now, it's electronics, we're getting and expanding all these categories. So everybody's realizing well, where are my customers? Well, they're watching cat videos. How do I fit between cat videos? Well, you've got to meet them where they're at, and that's why I think you know when brands are doing that, it's definitely a benefit for them when they're able to be where the consumer's at.
Speaker 3:And even more so, I think, as we think forward to the next one, two, three years in AI development. I mean what AI is going to do to impact the hyper-personalization that is upon us and how people do discover things and then making, when AI is feeding people, exactly what they're looking for. To make that frictionless in that moment is going to be an immense opportunity. I think I think I read something that was recently saying like AI is poised to impact 90% of the food category, that of the food that we consume, and it's just like that's mind boggling but it's. It's because it's everything we're talking about personalization and and where social media is going. It's like I mean, this might sound dismal, but we're one big, we're one algorithm at this point, away from being able to do anything and being served everything.
Speaker 1:No, I think you're absolutely right. When we look at what AI will impact in the industry, contextual targeting is going to be very important. We're going to be able to really hone in on the consumer in a very fresh way, and AI is going to drive a lot of that over time. What I think is very interesting is how that'll happen, and we were in this game of collecting first-party data. Everybody, all these retailers, were what do we do with it? What do we do with it? And now technology and AI is allowing for such personalization to occur and the ability for these brands to really show the consumers exactly how their relationship with the brand sits and then drive an actionable drive, an action for that, you know. So it's these really homogenous marriages of all this tech is coming together, and then the consumers are all over the place. So it's really it's cool to meet them where they're at, in different ways. So I think it's really really you hit the nail on the head, chris, with that. Ai is going to change a lot of things for sure.
Speaker 4:And Max speaking of just meeting people where they're at. So our listeners range from like folks that have national distribution kind of footprints, as well as some early stage CPG, as I was mentioning earlier. So, with this idea of like being everywhere all at once and meeting people where they are, can you talk to us a little bit about inventory? So one of the things that we hear is, hey, I'm really excited about these strategies, but we're scaling up and at times we're dealing with inventory challenges. Or, hey, how do we support and show retailer love, but we have different inventory challenges and different retail footprints. Can you talk a little bit about the way like you, as a platform, think about inventory and how that can the solutions for scaling brands?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely you know. So you know, the inventory side is always a juggling match for everybody and brands are dealing with distribution constantly. You know, I know, for us, we we work directly with retail partners and you know, and third party partners and everything to be able to show awareness of stock. So you know, I think the most important thing is if you're going to show a consumer and they're interested in that product in that moment, and then they get to the store and it's not there. Well, you just made a really upset consumer Congratulations. Well, you just made a really upset consumer Congratulations. So that's a really important part for us is that, when we are working with partners, that stock awareness is at the highest point and we're able to show that online inventory and in-store inventory for many retailers. And as those partnerships continue to grow, it just gets better and better retailers. And you know, as those partnerships continue to grow, it just gets better and better. You know.
Speaker 1:But, as you hit on earlier, we're in one big ecosystem and the consumers are at the forefront of everyone's thought. How do we simplify this for them and make it easier, you know, and how do we make this better, their experience better, because nobody likes to get to the store and go, yeah, it's not there, or click on the page and it says out of stock. So we take that variable out of it for sure. Very cool. Yeah, good question. I you know that one is very important. I will say it's a stock. Awareness is is a huge, huge part of the puzzle these days.
Speaker 4:Well, it's great to know that you have built that into the platform so that way, it's easy for brands to adopt smart commerce and thinking about these omni channel shoppable solutions. Because, again, chris and I are having these conversations every single day and brands are excited about this, but they're very, very worried about exactly what you just touched on is. Nobody wants to have that first interaction with a customer be a negative where there's an inventory issue. So it's great to hear that. You know, just by thinking about the way to uh adopt, uh smart commerce, they can show retailer love. Uh, you know, focus on collapsing that funnel, but also not stress about potential inventory challenges, as they're leveraging paid media strategy here. So so that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah. And you know, and it just kind of like pull it all together. You know, it's like I said earlier, that everything everywhere all at once is a reality, you know. But the consumer too is you know, they've got the, I want it now. You know, like it is really that Veronica salt, willy Wonka vibe of hey, we've learned that we want what we want right now.
Speaker 1:And you know, if you've got a partner that can allow to facilitate that, whether it's like integrating with a Kroger Kroger's Bopas pickup or you know, or driving it to an Instacart or whatever it is, it allows that consumer to have this omni-channel selection or option that fits their needs. That's, realistically, what we're doing is we're going what makes it better for consumer A, what makes it better for consumer B? And if they have all the options, and the company has all the options to meet those consumers, problem solved. That's what you're ultimately looking to hit, and then they can show actual results. See it on the backside how did it happen? And that's really. Those are things that we kind of pride ourselves on, for sure.
Speaker 3:Max, you kind of just brought this all together in a beautiful, beautiful way. So thanks a bunch for joining us around our little campfire. And hopefully we'll come back again, we can have another chat for folks, but thanks again, this was a great conversation.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, thank you both. I appreciate it, david, appreciate it, chris, and, and you know, you know we'll. We'll see you soon, okay, for sure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thanks.
Speaker 2:You've been listening to Fireside from Campfire Consultfire consulting. Join us again by the fire as we explore more ways to connect through media. Till next time, be responsibly different.