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Why Bold Ideas Still Matter: Authentic Storytelling with Words From The Woods

• Campfire Consulting

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In this episode of Fireside, Campfire Consulting’s Founder & CEO Chris Marine and Head of Strategy David Gogel sit down with Meranne Behrends and Luke Behrends, founders of Words From The Woods — a Portland, Maine creative agency known for bold ideas, human-centered storytelling, and work that resonates far beyond the algorithm.

Together, we explore why bold creative thinking still matters in a world obsessed with metrics, dashboards, and constant optimization. We dig into what happens when you return to the heart of storytelling, lead with curiosity instead of ego, and protect the human element that often gets lost when everything becomes a data point.

We also reflect on nearly eight years of growing alongside each other — from early shared clients to the trust, honesty, and no-nonsense collaboration that has shaped our work ever since. It’s the kind of advertising partnership that reminds you why this industry can be meaningful, and why the relationships behind the work matter just as much as the work itself.

If you’re interested in creative strategy, brand storytelling, media planning, or simply what it takes to build genuine partnerships in this industry, this conversation is one worth pulling up a chair for.

You can learn more about Words From The Woods and explore their work at: https://wftw.me

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Fireside, a responsibly different podcast where we spark candid conversations about media investments and the strategies shaping the way we connect.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome back to Fireside, where we talk with people shaping how creativity, media, and purpose come together to make work that actually matters. Today, my colleague in Campfire's Head of Strategy, David Goodgall, and I are joined by two longtime collaborators whose journey has run parallel to ours for nearly eight years. Moran and Luke, founders of Words from the Woods, a creative agency based right here in our home city of Portland, Maine. At Campfire, we're lucky to work with many talented creative partners. Words from the Woods is one of those relationships that has grown with us from the very beginning. We started our agencies around the same time, picked up some of the same clients early on, clients we both still proudly support today, and from day one, the collaboration has always come from a genuine place. What does that mean? It means no kickbacks, no expectations, just a shared belief in each other, being honest, working hard, being kind, and having some fun along the way. When our teams come together, the goal is simple: act as one and put the best work forward for the brands that trust us. And over the years, that collaboration has gone beyond just projects. We check in on each other as people. That's something rare in this industry and something I'm personally grateful for. Moran and Luke built Words from the Woods after years in the big agency world. I'm talking Super Bowl ads, global campaigns, major brands. And then chose Maine. They chose a place where the work could breathe a little more, where creativity could stay human. Today they continue telling stories that reach and influence culture across the United States. In this conversation, we dig into what authentic storytelling really means, why bold ideas still matter in a world obsessed with metrics, and what happens when you lead with curiosity instead of ego. We'll also talk about what it looks like when creative and media teams like ours at Campfire and theirs at Words from the Woods work in true partnership to create work that resonates with people, not just algorithms. So grab a seat by the fire. Without further ado, here's our fireside chat with Moran and Luke of Words from the Woods. Moran and Luke, super excited to be chatting with you around our fire here. I want to start out with something that inspires me, uh, which is on your site. You share that you don't blow smoke and you don't sell people things they don't need. So I love that promise, not just uh in the agency space, but as a as a cultural touchstone. Um, I'm just curious, how do you guys uh make sure that shows up in your work day?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh it's really funny you say that because there's no other line of copy or visual on our site that people have responded better to than that. We have gotten client partners, uh partners within the industry reach out and just say, that line got me to call you. Um and I think it's just a testament to people don't need people don't need more crap in their lives. They don't need more noise. They need things that are meaningful and truthful and transparent. And that's how we've always operated as a company. So I think we said, why the heck not put it front and center?

SPEAKER_02:

Are are those words and those I I would imagine came from you, Luke, sir?

SPEAKER_04:

Those words came from me. I mean, Moran and I had a long career before we started Words in the Woods, and we were fortunate to work at really good agencies in New York City and on big brands. And I think what we also saw was uh there's a lot of egos in advertising. There's a lot of people going for the money grab and just sort of trying to squeeze everything they can out of it. And when we started this shop, we wanted to sort of take the greatest hits of all the places we'd ever been and leave all of that sort of bullshit behind. So we're very open and transparent with our clients. We're open with about what they are looking for us to do, how we can achieve it. And I think that we don't blow smoke, it's just like we don't have time for all of that nonsense that we left behind. There's a whole reason that we started Words in the Woods, and it was to help and to stay in Maine and to give uh creativity and strategic thinking to sort of smaller, more regional brands that may not get it most of the time.

SPEAKER_01:

So and I also think the I think it's it's a philosophy too of we don't have the time, nor do you have the time. And we respect your time as well. I like those.

SPEAKER_04:

We want it on a shirt.

SPEAKER_03:

We need it on a shirt is what we need to start doing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and I just really quickly, I think it's interesting too. Uh obviously we we collaborate on um a number of different um clients and and and projects together. And I think we're seeing this trend not only in like that ethos that you're articulating, but also in the way that we move through the work, right? Like clients want less crap, like less, just less clutter, less stuff. We're trying to streamline, simplify, be more impactful, right? Think about how do we do how do we do less but make it stronger. And so I think that's interesting to like have that ethos about like why you all uh started the agency and moved through this work, but also like now seeing that reflected in the way that we think about marketing planning, uh, if you will.

SPEAKER_01:

We were just a little anecdote. We were um when it was just the two of us uh before we had hired, you know, team members, we were in a pitch situation against larger agencies. And we went in with zero to lose, right? We're like, let's let's uh carve out our perspective and hopefully it's unique and hopefully they spark to it. Um but we went in from a creative standpoint, and Luke waxed philosophical on you're wasting money if you're turning cameras on. Like you have so much great stuff to work with. And they were kind of like, What do you mean? This is for a campaign, and your creative team is telling us you don't need to go create content, or like you have content, you've just done nothing with it. So there's it's we're don't waste more money, don't waste more time, don't waste more human resources against doing something when you could be really smart and pragmatic with what you already have. And we ended up winning the pitch. Um so it just goes to show that people spark to that idea of resourcefulness um and efficiency when it's right in service of good creative work and good strategic thinking.

SPEAKER_02:

And I mean that there's a there's a big level of authenticity there too. And I I I some people are just genuinely authentic, I believe. And some people have that authenticity, it just comes from years of experience. I think you guys have both, and that's really refreshing. And people feel it when sitting around a table with you. Um, and we've sat at tables together with clients, and it's just people know, you know, one of the best compliments I think I've heard from a mutual client of ours when they walked away from mutual meeting was they were like, man, just good people. Like, and yes. But in regards to what you were sharing about how to create that uh that deeper storytelling, what does authentic storytelling mean to you and and how do you know when you've found it? You mentioned that spark. Like, is that spark glaring? Uh how do you know how do you know?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm gonna kick this one to Luke, but the only thing I'd say strategically is everything has to be consumer-centric. It has to be or human-centric rather, because it's not always about consumables. You want someone to opt into a service or a brand or a product and make a decision based on something that's triggering them to do so. And it has to start with why should they care? Quite frankly, why should they care? Why should they give a shit? Why should they want to choose this over this when they have enough, you know, we talked about noise, noise in their life. So I think creatively, what Luke and his team are so good at is taking human truths and um bringing them to the forefront.

SPEAKER_04:

I think being authentic, it comes from being informed. I think that people often say that advertising folks are the most interesting people at a cocktail party, and it's because we know just enough about everything to be able to sort of speak to a lot of different things. I think that what we're fortunate here at Words in the Woods to have is a really strong strategy department led by people who are focused on consumer psychology and behaviors and the research and the insights. I love a brief where they tell me to just go shotgun stuff against the wall and blue sky it until there's a bunch of wild ideas. But I feel like sometimes you're wasting your time if you're doing that because I'm more interested in what is the foundation? How are we pouring it? I want to know all the ins and outs, I want to know everything so that I can decide what is the most true or what is the most compelling or what is the most authentic. And then it's all grounded back in the strategy, it's all grounded back in the foundation. I feel like strategy is where it all starts, just because at that point you have a sort of uh unwritten contract with your client. It's like we all agree that this brief is good. And now the creative, it's creative was always going to be subjected. But if we if we all agree that it's coming from the same place and we're aiming at the same North Star, then yes, direction one might be more to your taste, and direction three might be out there, but direction three isn't wrong. It's coming from the place that we all agreed to, this place of authenticity. So then it's just a matter of how many different ways creatively can we bring this to life because all of them should be grounded in truth and in things that people are interested in.

SPEAKER_01:

It's the same principle in, you know, you set a goal, you set a um uh you set KPIs and you know the mark on the wall you need to hit, and everything should be in service of that. We look at creativity the same way. Of if we're not working towards the strategic foundation, then it's just wacky ideas and wacky ideas for the sake of wacky ideas don't move the needle on our partner's business.

SPEAKER_02:

And that creates friction, and that can be where some of those parts come from. And I think that's where like I when I think back over we've been working uh side by side now almost eight years.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um, and I think some of the greatest conversations come from, we both kind of come from that same place of like we're media strategy and planning and fusing those together, there's friction. And I know the way you guys have just explained how you go about what is that storytelling piece, it's that similar, strategic, and creative. You guys have a different, you have another dynamic though to layer on. I'm just curious about because friction in the work, you're also you're married. Like, how does that does that help you? Is that I think that's like a secret sauce. Um, but I don't know. Tell us a story. Is it does that friction carry home? And like there's a little bit of butting against, like, hey, but I really think we should do this. But hey, but we know this. Or is it just is it just mutual respect and it's all beautiful?

SPEAKER_01:

When we talk when we talk about work, it's never personal. And that's a that's a line that we set even before we worked together. It there's healthy disagreement, but it never teetered on entering into our marriage or our home life with our kids. It was like, and our team gets a big kind of big kick out of like, mom and dad are fighting, but like it's just that we're disagreeing on something that we have to crack. And there are times when I'm like, you know what, I don't agree, but we're gonna figure it out this way, or vice versa. And I think it's just being open, open to not only like losing an argument, but seeing it from a different perspective because it's all about the work at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04:

I think what would you say? Yeah. I mean, the way Miranda I have always put it is I'm a better creative because my wife's a strategist and she's a better strategist because she's always thinking of the creative. There's never been competition. If I was a if if I was a copywriter, I'm a copywriter, and if Moran was, say, a copywriter or an art director, maybe, and we have friends who are both in advertising, they're both creatives, and I feel like there's more opportunity there for jealousy or uh a little bit of friction, but Moran's whole job is to try to set up myself and our creative department, and my whole job is to make the strategy department shine and to bring their thoughts to life. So it's like there's a it's more of a harmonious balance of uh just sort of rolling up your sleeves and getting into the work. Now, that's not to say that we're don't have friction or we don't butt heads now and then, but it's not a my opinion versus you. It's again all built or based off of some foundational thing that we're talking about. So and uh one of us will usually just give in because that at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_02:

You just make good it is a beautiful symphony, though. It is, I mean, you can see it, and that and I've never seen any friction, so I just had to ask, you know? Like there's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01:

It's funny you you talk about honesty up front whenever we meet new people. If we're in a pitch situation or we're meeting with new potential clients, we always say right away, we're married. Like, even if it's a little bit awkward, it's like, let's get this out of the way right now. We share a last name, we share kids, you're gonna see the same background. Like, don't be like, Do you think do you no, no, no? We're married and we're business partners, and that's what it is. And if you have questions, great. But it just getting that almost out of the way right away. It's a superpower, it's a total superpower. It's important. Yeah, our kids think that we just go to work with our friends, though. Like mommy and daddy go to work together, and then they have a bunch of their friends that they get to hang out in in an office. So I don't think well, you guys are even better role models.

SPEAKER_02:

You're you're better role models than you were here and now you're up here in my book. Because that's a great message for them to take home. Like if that's how they can perceive work and you know, that's a that's a great role model. So I we have a few more minutes, but one thing is I want to address is like uh another big fan of your philosophy and your work, and you guys share this through your own channels quite a bit, is this idea of why bold ideas matter more than just living in the data. And I think that's really important. Um uh in your eyes, like when brands chase metrics in the expense of emotion, because I think, man, we worked through some heavy campaigns, like the largest healthcare network in northern New England, Maine Health going through the pandemic. What you guys have been able to do and continue to do, like pulling on heartstrings, is really um powerful. So I don't I'm sure you've seen brands though chase metrics over that emotional piece. How do you balance that? And how do you kind of inform people about the importance?

SPEAKER_01:

I tend to think of it as a spectrum of of almost like qualitative to quantitative. It's my old school brand planning background. You sort of have to stay in the middle zone. I don't think you can make decisions dependent on data alone, nor can you make instinctual decisions based on anecdotal stories or a couple uh focus groups. You have to find a middle ground. And I think if you if marketers start with data first, it's about finding the human infusion into that. So why does a statistic reflect X, Y, and Z? What's behind that on a human level? Go out and talk to people that are in the subset of that data point and try to uncover why they feel that way or why they're motivated a certain way. And the same goes for something that's more qualitative, and to Luke's earlier point, more subjective, putting numbers behind that. Is that true? That's where a lot of the um we try to poke holes in our like guttural instinctual notions when we're working through something. It's like, well, I feel like this is really interesting, but let's let's now go the reverse direction and look at the quantitative side and see if that's actually true. And and if it is, we run with it. And if it's not, it could unearth a new creative territory. So I think um I think it the human perspective is everything. And I think the the performance marketing trend of you know, pay for clicks, we there's been there's been plenty of relationships that we've walked away from because all that our client partner cares about is the bar chart in a slide deck presentation to a board of directors. And that's okay. Understanding that a lot of times marketers need to do their job and and show that things are working the well that as well as they need to. But the storytelling element of how something is effective is really crucial. Um, so I think we're always tuned into what is the human side to the numbers and how can we show that um through creativity. And sometimes we're wrong and we have to course correct. And that optimization is really important too, is looking at media metrics, looking at tracking studies, looking at the numbers and saying this isn't where we need it to be. How can we adjust and optimize creative work to get it there?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and it seems like there's also been this like direct correlation between like as uh the marketing suite started to be more performance measured, right? There's like this direct correlation between like the tenure of senior marketing executives, right? Like, so when we think about like big brand storytelling that takes years, right? It's like that leadership team no longer has that runway. So they are caught in this trap of needing to like report up on those performance numbers because that's how they keep their jobs and they, you know what I mean? But it, you know, they don't have as much latitude to say, like, hey, it's gonna take three years, but this is where the consumer is now, and we're gonna take a big risk and we're gonna tell this really impactful story that's gonna resonate and be consumer forward. And three years from now, this is how they're gonna view us. And we're not so worried about what this is gonna do to our performance measures with these different algorithms. We're gonna like pull on like the like the heart and soul of our core consumer. And they just, I think a lot of marketers just don't have that runway anymore. Uh, but we are starting to see that shift. I think we are starting to see more and more of our clients, more and more pitches that we're in are like, you know what? Yes, performance matters, but at its core, we want to move an audience from here to here and we want to tell an impactful story. Are are you guys seeing that as well? Have you guys seen that slight shift recently?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think so. Um the sticking with behavior change, right? You're seeing the you're seeing executives rise to the top and be really successful who have great case studies of behavior change, not the ones who have great case studies and bar charts and board of director meetings. It's what cultural movement did you create? Um how did you grow a brand from nothing? Like those are the stories. Talk about human element, right? Those are the stories uh that create really successful and effective executives at the highest level. And I think we're seeing a little bit more of an emergence of that.

SPEAKER_04:

I hope that that momentum maintains I think that creative executions have become more fleeting these days. There used to be, used to be able to create some momentum over a longer period of time, but right now everything almost feels like a single serve execution for this moment on this platform, and we have to, and by the next day, somebody's posting another thing or there's another ad. Like there used to just be more time for something to take place. So that just makes it even more important for what you're putting in that place at that time to be as specific and pointed and great as it possibly can be. Like we to always talk about fish where the fish are, but also like use the bait the fish want to eat, because otherwise you're just spraying out into the world, and everybody's getting hit with so much these days that you really have to say something now, or you're not saying anything, and no one's gonna listen in the first place. And I think COVID taught us that. I mean, just to look back at how our agency grew at the very beginning, I think that COVID was a time where everyone needed to talk in truthful, honest ways about what was happening in the world, and we immediately were able to sort of ride that wave of authenticity into a little bit of growth and a few more clients, and it was like, great, now is a time where we can all just set the BS aside and be truthful about what's going on and what we need and what people are interested in.

SPEAKER_01:

And I would add on to that that not only in the in the in the work itself, we needed to be completely transparent because we were living in a world where no one knew what to do and there were no case studies to rely on for a global pandemic, nothing to point to. So there was a lot of making it up in the in in the early days, and being overly transparent was crucial, especially for a healthcare leader. I think the same translates to relationships, and this is one of the things that we appreciate about campfire so much, and especially Chris, you and I relation you and I's relationship over the last few years. It's totally openly transparent. And it has to be. It is, you know, things are really good. And how do we do more of that? Things are really tough. And how do we pull ourselves out of that? Um, but having an open line of communication and telling it how it is is really important to get those partnerships to a place that we feel can get to the most effective work. We appreciate that about you guys a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I mean, that's where I was gonna kind of round this whole thing out, which was people asked us like when they asked us what are some of the best working relationships that we have, we always point to the one with you and everyone at Words from the Woods, because it truly is something where we talk about this a lot, who leads the dance. Um, and we're and you mentioned time. Time is an important element, Luke, for creative, and time is an important element to have to be able to plan strategically with media. And one thing we do really well, I think, is informing edge chain clients that like both of us should be moving together up front. And then as we move through the work and optimize and it's living out in the world, sometimes the creative is going to lead the dance, sometimes media is gonna lead the dance and we dance with each other. We've used that analogy before. And also no ego, no kickbacks. Like people are like, how do you make this agency partnership work that you guys have? I'm like, because we go to the table with the intention of like, let's just do really good work. And it's not about us making anything off of each other. It's just how do we do the best work? And we show up that way.

SPEAKER_01:

There's been moments too where we've had kind of a wacky creative idea or something that's not in a media plan. And we've come to you guys and said, Hey, we got this thing. Can you can you figure out how to execute on the distribution side? And you have always been like, All right, okay, I don't, I didn't see it that way, but let's go figure it out. And you always do. And in the same reverse direction, you've said, I need these specs because they're in the media plan. And we go back and say, what's the most effective message to make sure that those channels are working as hard as they can. So I think that um never being bullish or pig headed about, well, it's got to be creative first, or you guys think it's gotta be media first. It doesn't, from our standpoint, it that doesn't fly anymore. It's what's the what's the most, what's gonna be the most effective for the work itself and removing the ego from it, to your point.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Love that. I want to end and be respectful of time. I know we're already over, but I always like to leave people with hope. And there's a lot of uncertainty in our industry, just for culture and globally, with everything that's going on with technology, and it's exciting, but it's also can be a little bit full of jitters. So want to leave folks with hope. As you think out to the future, what gives you hope about the next generation of storytellers in Maine and beyond? Because we know you're working with people um well beyond our state's borders.

SPEAKER_04:

I a good quote that I heard is because it all comes back to AI. Is AI going to put us all out of jobs and take over the world, basically? I and my I heard something early, and it was like AI is not going to destroy all of this, uh, or AI is not gonna take our jobs. It's the person who's learned the AI that's gonna take your job. It's not the AI that we have to worry about. And I think that as we move forward and we're already seeing it, AI is gonna be a bigger part, a huge part of what we're doing. And I think that some of it is terrifying and some of it is uh very exciting. And it's just a matter of harnessing it for what we need it for. Uh but your question was about the future of storytelling. I think there's always gonna be new stories, there's always gonna be new perspectives. I think that you can't live on a planet with eight billion people and not have the next generation and the next generation still telling the stories, their stories are stories of the past. So I think it's just an inherent part of humanity that there are these stories to share. It's just a matter of how long can we keep telling them and how are long how are we going to sort of continue recording them in the future, be it in podcasts and advertisements and profiles and television or what have you.

SPEAKER_01:

I would agree with all of that and I would tack on to that that I have hope in our kids' generation of harnessing technology and AI in the right way. It's kind of been rogue. Like the last few decades have been adrift with change and innovation that has w moved the world forward but also created really unhealthy habits. Um I get really excited when my daughter is like, Mom, put the phone down. She's six.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm conscious of it. And in those moments when she's like, you don't need to do that right now, let's play a game. Like a six-year-old is conscious of that, and that that's one tiny anecdotal example that gives me a great deal of hope in a generation that's gonna use technology and innovation in the right manner to move the world forward.

SPEAKER_02:

All comes back to human connection. That is something to be hopeful for. And people are becoming more aware, and that's a great way to say thank you for your time. We'll have to do this again. We have so much more to talk about.

SPEAKER_01:

Cool. We're definitely game. All right. Thank you guys, appreciate this.

SPEAKER_02:

That was our conversation with Moran and Luke from Words from the Woods. Every time we sit down together, I'm reminded why creative work matters and why the relationship behind the work mattered just as much. Their perspective on storytelling, bold thinking, and staying human in an increasingly data-heavy world is a needed reminder for all of us in this industry. When you zoom out, the campaigns, the media plans, the strategy decks, they all come down to people. People listening, people caring, people trying to do right by the brands and communities they serve. We're fortunate at Campfire to collaborate with many talented creative partners, and Words from the Woods is one of those relationships that has grown with us over nearly a decade. Today's conversation was a reflection of that. Honest, thoughtful, fun, and rooted in respect. If something in this episode sparked an idea or shifted your perspective, share it with someone who believes in the power of real storytelling. You can learn more about Words from the Woods and see their work from the link in our show notes. And as always, thanks for joining us here by the fire. Until next time, stay curious, stay kind, and keep telling stories that make a difference.