Better Me with BodyByBree
Better Me with BodyByBree
Navigating Pornography Addiction with Corrine Stokoe
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This week Bree is talking with Corrine Stokoe about navigating pornography addiction when it afflicts someone you love.
Corrine is a mom of three little girls and a baby boy and is married to and works alongside her soulmate and best friend Neil who despite his love for Creed (yes the 90s band) and affinity for affliction tee shirts, she is deeply in love with. Read their real-life story of overcoming adversity together here.
Corrine has a passion for hunting down deals. The problem is that hunting down deals takes lots of time and lots of work. Between family, community, careers or a crazy mixture of all of the above – women today find it increasingly difficult to find moments for the little things that enrich their lives. That’s where Corinne and her team come in. They take the time to find every secret sale, hot deal and too-good-to-believe-it discount. Each featured item is part of a well-curated collection designed to infuse your life with savings and style
Corrine's greatest passion in life is her belief in Jesus Christ and sharing that anytime she can.
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Are you looking for a space where you will learn to improve your mental strength, emotional health, and heal your insecurities from the inside out? Take the first step to living a more meaningful life with a better meeting with my five ideas. I'm your host Bree. I'm a certified personal trainer, entrepreneur, and mother of three. I've helped empower thousands of women to take action through fitness, nutrition, meditation, personal development, and aligning thoughts with action. This podcast is for those who are ready to feel inspired and motivated to live a more purposeful life. Let's grow together. If you've ever struggled with a loved one who's had a pornography addiction or any type of addiction, this episode is for you. I was able to interview Corinne from Mint Arrow, and she's very open about her husband's struggle with pornography and their journey. And I thought it would be really insightful for us to be able to kind of get inside her brain and her journey and see how she was able to overcome those obstacles in her life and come out stronger on the other side. And we talked through all the steps that she went through for her healing and some of her reactions when she first found out how to strengthen the communication between her and her husband. And it was so helpful to hear. Corinne is a huge blogger and she loves to help people find a good deal on her blog. But she also has a great passion, is her belief in Jesus Christ and sharing that anytime she can. And the hope for her blog is that you find some good deals, but you leave feeling better than you came. So her ultimate goal as a blogger is that if you ever run into her as in person, she hopes that you feel like you're friends and that you'll come and say hi. And that's how I felt. She's so personable, she's so authentic, so genuine and open. And you are going to love this episode. I can't wait for you to listen. Corinne, welcome to the podcast. I have to say I'm very starstrucked that you're here because I look up to you so much. I just love you. I think you're amazing.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you're so nice. Thank you. Well, I feel the same about you. So this is really fun for me.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm grateful that I know that you have so many accomplishments and you could literally chat about a million things today because you're very talented and you have a lot going on in your life. But something that I wanted to talk about was pornography addiction. And I know that you have been pretty public about your story with Neil and kind of his struggles with pornography. And when you first came out with that, I was like, holy cow, that was gutsy to come out with that. Were you terrified?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I wasn't terrified. We felt really strongly that it was what we were supposed to do. I think I think we just kept feeling that prompting for so long. We kept feeling like that was something that we needed to share. And that, you know, when when we both had finished the 12 steps, that was the 12th step is to share this message with others. And so it was just something that we've both felt really strongly about. And so I wasn't terrified, but I we were kind of like, I don't know how this is gonna go, but we mostly received really positive and um grateful feedback and people who it was really well received.
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, I I just like could not like I look up to you so much for how brave you guys you both were for sharing that part of your life because I know how many people it helped. And that's why I look up to you so much because I'm like, that would take a lot to be that brave and put yourself out there. But look at how many people you're helping and how many families you're giving hope to, and just being able to relate to other women who are in your shoes and that they don't feel alone. So would you mind sharing some of that story, you and Neil's story with pornography?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So Neil and I started dating in 2009, and we met on a like a friend trip to Lake Powell, which is a big lake in Arizona, and people take houseboats there. And I was invited as a friend. Uh, one of my girlfriends was dating one of Neil's friends, so she invited me to come along, and I had never been to Lake Powell, so that's where I met Neil, and then we started dating after like a couple months later, we were dating and things were going really well. And he dumped me a few days before Christmas, and I was devastated. Yeah, he loves this part of the story. He's always that is not cool. Makes me sound like a jerk, but he um, you know, it's funny when I met his mom, she was like, Well, Neil's and Neil's relationships never last more than three months. Um, and I kind of looked at him and he was like, Well, yeah, it's true. I, you know, usually they don't last too long, but you know, that's not you anyway. It was just funny because I was kind of like, oh man, okay. And then sure enough, he broke up with me and it was weird because everything was going so well. And I just felt so confused because he had like said, I love you, and had, and apparently he hadn't said that to anyone since like his high school girlfriend. And so I just thought it was different, you know. I thought I was different, just like every other girl does. And you know, so I cried all through Christmas, and then after I just still felt confused, and I just felt this kind of empty feeling like what happened? So I called him and just said, I just really want to understand what happened because I thought things were going so great with us. And he said, Well, let's go on a drive. So he came and picked me up, and I just will never forget it was snowing in Utah, and he took me on this drive and you know, parked in like an overlook kind of area, was looking across the Salt Lake Valley, and he just looked at me and said, I have a problem with pornography. And I just, if you had told me that that was going to happen, I would have told you, Oh, I'll, I I would probably just run from a guy like that. But there was something that just made me feel so calm and to not freak out and to just say, like, okay, tell me more. And he was shocked too. He thought that that was going to be my closure. Like, I care about this girl so much that she deserves that, and I'm gonna tell her, and she's gonna be like, Oh, okay, wow, thanks for telling me and have a nice life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is sad because Neil's such a great guy, like that would be so sad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, it just was, you know, I think he had broken off all of his relationships before that because he felt like if someone knew this about me, they would never want to be close to me. So, anyway, so we kind of got back together and started dating again, and that was kind of the beginning of um a very long road to recovery. And so we did like some outpatient recovery together while we after, like once we were engaged, um, we did that together, and then through the beginning of our marriage, and when we got married, we really both kind of were under this false assumption that if he had kind of gotten things under control and we got married, then that would take the place of using pornography, you know, as a because at the time we just really didn't understand enough about addiction. And so we got married thinking, okay, that's gonna be the end of it. And it just wasn't. So um, you know, that came back up pretty quickly after we got married. And because like any addiction, it's really it took me a very, very long time to understand this, but it wasn't personal, it wasn't about me, it was about like pain management. And, you know, for any addict, that's kind of how they escape anything from boredom or loneliness or disappointment or frustration or any of those negative feelings. Instead of like people in AA will say, instead of living life on life's terms, they've just learned to not deal with reality through numbing out whether that's drugs or alcohol or pornography or any kind of like, I mean, even people who are um have food addiction, you know, they'll just like eat their feelings away or whatever. So that was kind of what Neil learned to do to cope with life from a very, very young age. So of course, once you get married, life isn't just blissful. Anyone who's married knows that. And, you know, once like little hiccups in the road started to happen, that was his because it had been his go-to his entire life.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00That's of course like what he fell back on. And so then then it was really hard because I kind of felt like, oh my gosh, I thought we had gotten to like I thought we were in the clear. I thought we not, I didn't think it was gonna be perfectly easy, but I really believed because he and I were both in such a great place spiritually, and supposedly with his recovery when we got married, that that was kind of behind us, and it definitely wasn't. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01And I remember you said it was like seven years, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so when so we had kind of done recovery for the two years that for a majority of the two years that we dated. When we got married, you know, and then things kind of started to go in that up and down pattern. It it really was kind of a pattern. It was like Neil, and Neil always wanted to be rid of this addiction. He always wanted to get over it. He was always very proactive about seeking help from our church leaders and from therapists and from, you know, we did an outpatient recovery program for quite a while and like an outpatient rehab program basically. And, you know, none of that stuff really was working. Then we moved to Southern California, and we had heard of ARP, which is like our church's 12-step program. And at that point I was just really tired. Like when we moved to Utah, it had been several years of ups and downs, and I kind of had taken on the role of like, okay, I'm gonna be the cheerleader, this is gonna work. And then it just kind of kept not working over and over to the point where I just felt like, okay, this is on you. You can do whatever you want, but I just don't really want to be involved in this anymore. So he started going to the local 12-step meeting here in San Clemeni. Um, and he went for about a year and he started inviting me pretty shortly into his, you know, going weekly and saying, This is an amazing meeting. I think you would really like it. Like, there's a couple that goes and this wife who I think you would really like, and and I think you would relate to them. And I just was like, no, thanks. I'm over this. Like, that's your deal now. You do what you want to do, but I don't want to go. So he but he just kept inviting me. Um, and he just kept asking, like, are you sure? Do you want to go? But this is also in between him, you know, having like he'd have a three-week stint and then he'd relapse, or a six-week, or sometimes even like, you know, two months or three months or whatever. But it was always a pattern. It was always like a white knuckle, white knuckle, and then things would get too intense or too, we'd have too much pressure, or whatever was not going well in his life, and then he would relapse over and over and over. And a lot of times I would have to find it or find out. It was pretty rare for him to come to me. I mean, almost always I was having to like ask the right questions or kind of feel it out.
SPEAKER_01And was I just really was that harder for you that he didn't come to you? Like, did it for was that harder that he didn't come to you and you found it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course, always. That was always, you know, hurtful and frustrating because I just would feel like, just be honest with me. In fact, I don't know if you've seen the movie Ford versus Ferrari, but um, there's a part where Christian Bell's wife just freaks out and she's driving this car and she's driving it like super fast, and he is just panicked. He's like, please slow down, you're gonna kill us. And she's she's just mad because he had lied to her. And then she finally slows down. But I, Neil and I laugh every time during that part because it's the same for me and pretty much every other wife I've ever met who's in that recovery type of relationship where it's like, just be honest. But that's like the hardest thing for an addict is to be honest. Um, and that's why there's a 12-step saying that's you know, you're only sick as your secrets, or secrets are the lifeblood of addiction. Like that lying in secrets, that's just a huge part of usually addiction. So, you know, it's just painful for an addict to have to go to the person that they're gonna disappoint and say, Yep, I I slipped again or I relapsed again or whatever. So, um, anyway, he finally convinced me to go to this 12-step meeting with him. And at first I was super bitter, like just angry. I hated everything about recovery. I just felt like it was a bunch of people who were making excuses for each other, getting together, like making each other feel better about the things they were doing to their families, like hurting them. And I don't know. I just was I was very, very jaded. But there was something about the way I felt when I started going that I couldn't deny, that I just felt peaceful. I felt like it was, I don't know. I felt God's presence there. I felt like it was what we were supposed to do. Like I felt like it was a good place. So I kept going, even though I there were things that made me angry when I would go and listen to people share. Um and mostly just I walked in and I I felt like wow, people are acting like happy and happy to see each other. And I kind of was like, shouldn't we all be acting like we're at a funeral? Like this is so awful that we all have this problem. And people were joyful. They would show up and just be happy and and be happy to see each other and feel so much joy and recovery. And I was just super tainted. Like at that point, I just it was hard for me to see anything good about that situation.
SPEAKER_01Um years, you'd be like so worn out. I don't blame you. That would be so tired.
SPEAKER_00I was tired mostly of feeling like I was living in a constant lie or like I just never knew when to trust myself. And so anyway, Neil's last relapse was five years ago in October. So just a little bit over five years ago. And I had been out of town. I came home and found something on our Apple TV, which was like really apparent that that's what he'd been doing while I was gone. And I just was so angry because I thought he he told me like while I was on that trip, like, oh yeah, everything's great, everything's going well, we're all good. And I was still very much caught up in that. Like, I need to, I mean, I didn't say out loud, like, I need to be in charge of your recovery, but inside that's how I felt. I felt like I need to know that I'm not a crazy person, I need to know this isn't going on in my house, or um that if I'm if if we're being intimate, that that's not also happening. There's just so much control inside of me that felt like if I know that I have control, like if these things are under control, then I feel safe. Like it was so much about me needing to feel in control of the situation when in reality I had absolutely no control over it. So I just was so upset, feeling like I had been lied to and that things were going on that were out of my control. And and so anyway, I called a friend of mine who her name's Mandy, and she um had talked a lot about addiction recovery through ARP with her husband, who was a drug addict. And so I called her just like absolutely falling apart. And she basically said, Well, do you just need someone to listen to you or do you want to do something about this? And I was like, I will do anything. And she said, Okay, you need to work the steps, which was the last thing I wanted to hear because I felt like this isn't my problem. I'm not the one that has an addiction. Why do I need to work the steps? Um, but she basically was like, just trust me. So I started working the 12 steps and in that process, just really found a reliance upon the savior and on God and on not having to live with a dependence on Neil's actions to make me happy. I I had to learn how to not let his addiction control my life. And that, and anyone who's been married to an addict who has been through that codependent role, that's how you feel. You feel crazy because you feel like you have to control uh, you know, every little aspect of your life that could possibly put a ripple in the waters that might make your spouse or your partner or whatever go off the deep end one more time. When in reality, they're gonna do that. If they want to do that, they're gonna do it no matter what, no matter what you do to try to control the environment. And probably if you're trying to be controlling, you're just making it worse. And so as I did that work, that internal work on doing each of the 12 steps, I was able to let go of my trying to control Neil's addiction and all of the environmental aspects of our life and trying to make it this perfect environment for him to act perfectly. And instead was able to just focus on like, what are my character weaknesses? What have I done wrong in my life? Where do I need more help and more grace and more forgiveness and more um refining of my own character? And because I started to focus on that, I had I was able to just let go. And then Neil subsequently had to be in charge of his own recovery because I wasn't babysitting it anymore and I wasn't babysitting him. And so it just happened to work out that way. It doesn't happen for everyone in that way, but it was kind of the perfect timing of me just I went to him and just basically said, I want you to know that whatever you choose to do, I'll be okay. So it's all on you now, and not in like an angry way, not in like a screw you, I hate you, this is on you now, you know. It was more like um, I just yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's so emotionally draining, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it just was like not sustainable anymore. And I kind of realized like this isn't doing any good, it's it happens either way. If that's what's going, if it's going to happen, it's gonna happen. And so that work of doing the 12 steps is so deeply internally intense and spiritually intense and emotionally intense that I just didn't have any room in my life to worry about him anymore. I I was so worried about trying to, and when I sat down to do the steps too, I was like, okay, I want full credit for these steps. Like I want each of them to work to their maximum capacity. I'm not gonna just like kind of dink around with this or like barely do it. I'm gonna do it full out. And that's really how I treated it. And I feel like because of that, I really was able to get a completely life-changing experience from doing the 12 steps and just really learned to just totally let go of that control and worrying about what Neil's addiction, you know, where he was at and if he was gonna slip up and what how that was gonna affect my life. I just let it all go. And that that's really like the third step is just surrendering and handing all of that stuff over to God and saying, this is no longer my problem. I'm not gonna carry this burden around. I can't control other people, I can only worry about myself. So, anyway, that really was the beginning of me just totally understanding addiction from a different perspective. And really, I think the other gift that I got from that was just truly putting myself on equal ground with Neil instead of always feeling like, well, you're the screw-up and I'm the one trying to fix all of this, and why can't you get with the program? It's so humbling to do the 12 steps that I was suddenly needing so much grace and so much um refining of my character weaknesses and so much acceptance and and forgiveness from God that it just wasn't when you feel that humbled, you don't have much room anymore to be like, well, you're the screw up because you're you're having to hyper focus on all the things that you're doing wrong. So that was life-changing for me. And in that same process, Neil was able to just kind of he was like, Oh, shoot, there's nobody here to blame except myself. And then he started to do his steps too, and that's when he finally had the space to really own everything about his addiction, and then kind of got sober too. But like I said, that doesn't work necessarily for everyone in that time frame. That's just kind of how it ended up working out for us, right?
SPEAKER_01Man, what an amazing story. I have a couple questions along the way of that story. So the first was when you first found out, were you did you ever blame yourself? Like, were you ever like, is it because of me, or did you always know that it was his problem? Because I'm like some some women that I have talked to, they're like, Yeah, I don't know why, but I thought like it was because of me. Like I wasn't, you know, giving him enough. Did you ever feel that way? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So not when I very first found out because that was before we were married. So we weren't like Sexually active. It wasn't, you know, a part of our relationship that I felt like I had any responsibility over. So no, not at first. But once we got married and then it was still happening, yeah, definitely. There were times where I just felt like, wow, am I just not pretty enough or skinny enough or exciting enough or whatever? And it's none of those things. That's like saying to someone who has a food addiction, like, wow, was your dinner not good enough last night? You know what I mean? It's really not about the person that you're married to being enough. It's about that person truly having an addiction to escaping reality through whatever their drug of choice is. I love that. But it took me a long time to get there. You know, that wasn't like an instantaneous someone said it to me and it clicked. It was like years and years of me doing a lot of my own work to finally really accept that and say, yeah, this isn't about me. This is really just about Neil needing to do his own work.
SPEAKER_01Right. So did you ever want, I know you kind of said like you did want to give up. Like what made you keep going? Just finding the 12-step program, or what made you, I guess, stay that whole time? You know, I know you probably loved Neil, but how do you separate the addiction from the person?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, there's a couple of things with that. First of all, I had been married before. And so the fact that I had been married, been through a divorce, and then my Neil was my second marriage. I think when I married Neil, I was, and this is a completely different story, but I was so intentional about really, really praying and feeling like I needed an answer from God. And I had more than one very, very strong answer that it was the right thing for me to do to marry him. That even when things got really hard, I never felt like I was that was going to be the end or I was going to back out. Cause I just felt like I already knew that that's what God told me was the right thing to do. If anything, I I remember telling a bishop who's like my church leader, um, meeting with him once and just asking for help and some guidance. I just said, I have kind of just accepted the fact that this is gonna be my lot in life. And I just don't think this is ever gonna get better in this life and like maybe in the next life, like maybe after we die and when we're in heaven, like Neil will finally overcome this. But I've just kind of accepted that this is what my life looks like. Um, but that was that was a sad place to be because it was I accepted it with like a lot of bitterness and resentment and frustration, which like all of those are just, you know, like relationship killers. Like that's not a fun place to be, even if you are gonna stay. Um, it's a miserable way to live, you know. So I think that I I don't know. I think in the times that I felt the very most frustrated, in that's just my personality, that instead of being like, oh, I'm gonna quit, it was more like, hey, I guess I'm just gonna try to find a new way or try to work harder or try to until and all those things I would, you know, work at as hard as I could until I just felt like I I really reached that end. Like it, I guess that was my rock bottom, where I finally called my friend Mandy and said, I just I can't live like this anymore. And that was when she said, Do you do you just want someone to listen to you or do you want to do something? And that's when I finally did the steps.
SPEAKER_01And that's what was the turning point. Yeah. That's amazing. So what would you say to someone who's maybe in your shoes and they're not as far along and they're still struggling, like they're where you were seven years ago. What advice would you give them?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I think it depends, right? Like it depends on if they're married or not. Like there's just so many factors. It also depends on where the other person is at, because in all of the years that I've gone to meetings and seen different levels of people who are committed to recovery, like one thing that I have to give Neil a lot of credit for is he always wanted to try. He always was willing to show up to meetings or go to therapy or try to ask for help, even though that didn't work for a long time, because there was just still a part of him. And I want to say too, it's not that like the steps, the the 12-step meetings didn't work and then suddenly they did. It was about like where Neil was at personally. Um, but he always had a willing heart, and that's not something that everyone has. So, and this is where I always go back to God, where like if you are dating someone and you're trying to decide, like, could I marry this person even though they have a pornography addiction? Or I'm in a relationship, like now I'm in a marriage and there's kids or there's not kids or whatever, and what should I do next? Um, this is where I always go back to God. And I feel like if you pray and you ask God for help, like he's never gonna give you a false answer. He's never gonna say, Oh yeah, you know, keep going when it's just gonna get worse and you're gonna regret it, or he's never gonna tell you, yes. Like, I don't know. I look back at least at the situations that I've been in and my first marriage, I had a definite, this is not a good idea, do not do this. And I did it anyway. And then that didn't turn out very well. And then, you know, with Neil, when I prayed about it, even though I was very aware of his addiction and his shortcomings and some of the things he was struggling with, God gave me a really clear answer. Like, yes, I'm this is what I want you to do, and I'm happy with this decision. And that's turned out to be the best decision of my life. Like now our marriage is super strong, and I feel like we're able to help a lot of people, and I feel like this is exactly what God intended for us to do together, even though it took many years to get there. So, but only he's the one that knows the intentions of our hearts, right? He knows he knew the intentions of Neil's heart. He knew that Neil wanted to eventually get better, he knew that he would get there eventually. So it's just it's different for each person and each situation. Um, but I would say, you know, really, really like listen to your gut, listen to God. Like, and and I keep mentioning God, and that's such a big part of my life. But even if you were to do the 12 steps, even if you're not someone who believes in God, they will talk about like a higher power. You can't do the 12 steps without at least a higher power that you recognize. So, whatever that is for you, if it's God or if it's a higher power or your intuition, like you have to really be willing to trust that. Um, because yeah, it's just different for every person. Sorry, that's probably not a very direct answer, but that's looking for you.
SPEAKER_01No, I love it. And I love that it's like your it's your personal experience. So what if um somebody is nervous to confront their husband? Like what if they suspect that that might be a problem or if they haven't even discussed it in the past? How do you have any advice of how they could bring that up or like maybe have an open conversation about it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think um I think for for many years I felt like I kind of had to take on that role of like being God or being um not that sounds really bad, but just being kind of the judge of Neil and being like, okay, what's going on? Tell me what happened, or whatever, instead of asking from like a place of non-judgmental love, just like, hey, you know, can we talk about this and how's it going? And I think Neil recognizes that that I first of all really don't, I don't ask him a whole lot of questions anymore because I feel like that's on him and that's his, you know, that's that's his thing to own. And if he is at any point goes back to that, then he has to square with God on that, not me. Like it's not my job to save him, it's not my job to babysit him or to make sure. But at the same time, like I think everyone deserves honesty. And I think if you have questions about that, or especially if you feel prompted or like you're having a feeling, you should bring that up. I think anytime you can bring something up with love and with more love and less judgment, um, the better off you'll be. But at the same time, like every every person deserves honesty. So um I don't know, I think that you can ask in like I don't know, I think Tone says so much, you know, you can ask the same exact question in two different ways, kind of like a like in an accusatory way or in a like I'm coming with openness and and just willing to listen. But I mean, but at the same time too, if you feel like you're being things are happening behind your back and you're angry, you shouldn't feel like you don't have a right to be angry. I mean, you do like if things things hurt, especially if you find out that you've been lied to. Um, so I would never want to invalidate anyone or make them feel like their feelings aren't valid because they are, but it might go better if you are able to kind of practice some um some tolerance and patience and love as you ask those questions, it might go over better, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. I love that. I think that could be like a scary thing for you know, a wife to bring up to her husband, because sometimes you don't want to know the answer, or sometimes it's like uncomfortable to have that conversation. But yeah, when I was talking with Fight the New Drug, they were saying that whenever something is not secret, like what you were saying, then it gives it less power. And when you're able to have open communication and it's out in the open, then it's the perfect foundation to heal. So I love that it's an open communication and it's something that is worth talking about and having a conversation about. And I love how you like you were still a partner and supportive, but you're like, this is your thing. Like this is what you need to work on, like not need to work on, but something that you can own yourself and it's not on me. That that had to feel so good. That probably felt like a thousand pounds lifted off your chest when you did that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it really did. But that was, I think I had tried to do that kind of in anger before, like, you know what? Fine, it's not my problem. Do whatever you want. And it was a very different, like once I really read through step three and committed to doing it and really like got on my knees and prayed and just said, okay, Heavenly Father, I don't want to carry this around anymore. I'm handing it over to you. It was a very real experience for me to just say, okay, I'm done. No more. Like I'm not carrying this around anymore. And then I was able to tell Neil, like I said, not in an angry way, but in very like, I'm not, I'm not in charge of this anymore. It's all on you. Whatever you want to do, I will be fine. Um that was a game changer for both of us. But yeah, it wasn't like a I guess what I'm trying to say is I needed the instruction of the 12 steps and of that step three. It was such a powerful thing for me to do in a sequential order. Like I I also feel really strongly that each step is super important and that the 12 steps are in the order that they're in for a reason, and that steps one and two prepared me to do step three properly. And so I don't know, I guess that's why I'm such a big advocate of doing the steps. And there's different ways you can do that. I did it just through ARP, like I said, but there's Al-Anon, which is for anyone who's the loved one of an addict. Um, there's, I mean, there's just lots of different 12-step programs out there, but I think if you have that structure, and especially if you have a sponsor, which is someone who's done the steps already, then they can help kind of walk you through each of the steps. And that's to me, I think that's vital because you need guidance. You need someone who can say, okay, I've done this before, and this is this is the best, you know, route for doing this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that. Um, I have one more question. How has your marriage changed now in the last you know, couple years that Neil's been sober versus the first seven?
SPEAKER_00How has our marriage changed? I think one of the biggest things that has changed between us is I think that we are both like we respect each other as equals. That's really important. I think that before I kind of felt like you'll always owe me. Like you, like you'll always be a little bit in my debt because of all the things you put me through. And doing the steps just removed that completely. And one of the steps was to ask God to remove all my character weaknesses. And that was one that I wanted to hold on to because honestly, it made me feel kind of safe. Like if I can always be a little bit mad at you, then you can't hurt me. And I had to ask for that to be taken away. And although that made me more vulnerable, I feel like it put us on equal ground, and that was that was vital for us to really be able to heal and to come back together as a couple that loved and respected each other. And um, so I think that was huge because every time we would fight before that, all the feelings of anything he had ever put me through would bubble up on top of whatever it was that I was mad about at the time. And that just never happens anymore. I I feel like I was really able to truly forgive and heal and move on. Um, and I think that's been one of the biggest things. But I don't know, I think that life still gets hard, but we really developed the skills to be able to, I don't know, get that, get that confidence and um reliance on God to give us. Um, I'm like struggling for the right words, but to just, yeah, I guess getting your validation from God and knowing that you're enough through God versus like him pleasing me because he was sober enough or or doing well enough, and then me feeling like he was controlling my life because he was doing well. Like we just broke free of all of that codependence between the two of us. And as we got healthier individually, we were able to come back together as a really strong couple.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I love that so much. Man, so many good nuggets. I feel like you have helped so many women who are probably in your shoes. And I feel like the advice that you shared is applicable to any type of addiction, not just pornography. And so if you have a loved one that is struggling with any type of addiction, I feel like all of the tools that you just gave us are gonna help. So I appreciate your time and your honesty and your vulnerability and just being available to share your story. That's such a gift for us. And thank you. Is there anything else that you want to say that I didn't get to?
SPEAKER_00No, I think I think this was, you know, a really great interview. Thank you for giving me the time to share this story. And I I guess I feel like if anyone's listening to this and they feel really lost and like things will never get better. I I think the one thing that I wish I would have believed or heard or had the ears to hear earlier was that you don't have to wait for someone else to be sober. You don't have to wait for someone else to get their life together, for you to find your own happiness. And that sounds super cliche, but like you really can do your own individual work to find happiness and peace and joy. And that doesn't have to be reliant on someone else's actions. You can do that for yourself. And that's when I finally realized that and believed it and did it, it that's when I found like that actual true happiness that only could come from me just relying on God and and getting that from him.
SPEAKER_01I love that. Thank you so much, Corinne. And I'm gonna link Corinne also has a podcast, um, mint arrow messages. And I will link your podcast as well. So if you guys want to hear, um, she just barely did a podcast on Neil's five-year sober. And um, you can also listen even more in depth on part one and part two of her story if you want to hear more. So, and you have an amazing blog. You have like the best. I always go, you're you're dead, you're very dangerous for me because you seriously have the best sales, the best deals, um, the most amazing hacks. Like you're just you do it all. I just love you. So thank you for helping me so much.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01All right, have a great day. I'll talk to you later.
SPEAKER_00Okay, Brie, thank you again for this.
SPEAKER_01That was so nice of you. Thank you for joining us in today's episode. If you liked the content and want to hear more, remember to hit that subscribe button and write a review. As a small business owner, I appreciate it more than you know. If you are looking for a program to help with self-confidence, to lose weight, get in shape, and work on your mental, physical, and emotional health. Check out my training programs on www.body by Bree.com. My team and I help to hold you accountable through the Body Bible app, where you log in to see all your workouts, custom meal plan made specifically for you and your needs, and communication through the messenger. You are never alone when you're on the Body by Bree Training program. Click the link in the show notes to get more information on how to transform your life from the inside out.
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