The Silent Side of Fertility Ft. Abbey Chester

Trigger Warning: Pregnancy loss

What happens when the journey to motherhood doesn't go as planned?

In this episode, I'm joined by fertility and Pregnancy loss coach Abbey Chester. We have an honest and open conversation about:

Pregnancy loss
Fertility struggles
Advocating for yourself in healthcare, and learning to trust your body again. Whether you're trying to conceive, supporting someone who is, or simply want to better understand women's health, this episode is full of compassion, hope and empowering education.

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@abbeychester_co

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello, my loves. I do want to give a trigger warning for this episode. We do speak about pregnancy loss, miscarriages, and we do discuss fertility. So if this is not a good time for you to hear this episode, you can skip this one and come back at a time that feels safe for you. Welcome to Wake Up Worthy, the podcast that feels like the friend who hyped you up and tells you the truth. I'm your host, Jade, and this is your one-stop shop for confidence, empowerment, relationships, and all things us gals are secretly overthinking at 2am. So grab your coffee, girl, get comfy, and let's yap our way into the most confident, worthy version of you. Because, babe, you didn't just wake up, you woke up worthy. All right, beautiful Abby. Thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to Woke Up Worthy. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

How are you? I am well. How are you? It's been a long time since we have caught up.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

I know, I know. I I treat my podcast as my own little just selfish way of catching up with everyone. It's just a bonus that you guys get to share all of your topics. So tell the listeners, for anyone that doesn't know you, a little bit about yourself and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Sure. So I am a mum, and over the last few years, I have battled with secondary infertility. Um, probably since 2023, that sort of started. Um, I've had quite a few later losses and struggles getting pregnant. Um, I have unlocked quite a few things about myself in that time. Um, and I've been to probably every doctor that you could probably think of. Um, and I just really found a passion for trying to help other people in that kind of, you know, circumstances because it's such a lonely journey that people don't want to talk about. So I studied uh fertility and cycles, like our menstrual cycles, family planning, all of those things, also life coaching, um, which I don't do a lot of life coaching, but it's definitely helped when I'm speaking to my clients. And I'm also in the middle of doing my diploma in counseling. Uh, so I work with women that are struggling to conceive and really just need some support. You know, you go to these doctors' appointments, and a lot of the time it's a five-minute appointment, you don't get the information. I'll say, do this, do that, and then see you later. So these girls walk out and think, I don't even know what's wrong with me or what I'm doing. So my job is sort of to help them understand the gaps.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

So that's yeah, yeah, such an important topic as well. Because my partner and I have been trying for a couple of months as well, and it's just there's just so much, so much information out there, but it can be quite overwhelming as well if you don't know what you're looking for. And then it depends on what part of your journey you're on in terms of what support you really need. And especially in your field in your line of work, it's it's very emotional, like the grief involved and just the anxiety and and blame, I'm assuming, like it's just so much. So we appreciate you on behalf of all women for what you're doing. You mentioned that it taught you some things about yourself. Do you want to tell us a bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Definitely. So before all of this, I was very much a pushover, you know. I would just be like, oh, no, that's okay. Just whatever people would say, be like, that's okay, I'll just be a people pleaser. But since all of this, I have really learned how resilient I am and how much of a backbone I really have. So I have learnt so much about advocating for myself. And if something doesn't sit right with me or doesn't feel right, I will ask questions. And if they can't give me those answers or won't investigate further like I've asked, I will find another doctor or find someone else. And I am very big on that. A lot of my clients will say to me, you know, my doctor has done this and said this, and he won't change anything. He just wants me to keep doing the same thing for 12 months and then he'll reassess on my, you don't have to do that, you know, with other options out there. I think that's the biggest thing I've learned about myself is that I can advocate for myself. And then it's helped me be a better mom and a better wife and a better daughter, really, you know, because I can advocate for other people as well. Before that, I could not do that.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah, I love that. And that's so important in the medical industry as well because we don't have the information. A lot of the time, we take what the doctor's saying for face value, and a lot of women don't know that it's okay to ask different questions or okay to go somewhere else. We just kind of have to accept what we're being told or what we're being told to go and do. Is there like a certain time that you can recall where you made that choice where you were like, this is not good enough. I need to start advocating for myself. Like, did something happen or just sick of being pivotal?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah. So with our first loss, our first loss, I'll give you a bit of a backstory. So our first loss, we actually lost the baby at 15 weeks. And I went to an ultrasound, and I just had a feeling that something wasn't right, which was weird for me because I've had two pregnancies prior, no issues. So I had no previous history to make me feel like there was something not right, but I just had this gut feeling that something wasn't right. So they put me in for a reassurance scan and I went by myself and there was no heartbeat. So we had actually lost the baby a couple weeks before, um, and it had just been in my stomach, you know, with no heartbeat, and we didn't know. Um, and what followed after that was just a nightmare, you know. We went to see the doctor, and I was like, what's my options? Because I had no idea, you know, I'd never had a miscarriage before, I'd never really knew much about it at all. And she was like, Oh, you can have a surgery, which is a DNC, to, you know, surgically remove the baby, which is the option that I wanted to take. And she said, But I advise you that you don't do it. I'd rather you take these tablets. She walked out of the room, gave me the abortion tablets in an envelope, and said, Go home, take these, and it'll just be like a heavy period, and that'll be the end of it. Anyway, so I come home and I was a bit like that doesn't really sit right with me. And we were devastated because we just we'd just lost this baby, and we had to tell our children who were I think they're about five and six at that time, they were so excited, and we had to tell them that this is what happened. So we were trying to nurse their feelings as well as us grieve and try and understand what we're supposed to do with this medication. So I rang a midwife and she rang me, like she rang me back and she said, Do not take those tablets. You will likely hemorrhage and you will go into actual labor with 15 baby, you know. Please don't take those tablets. And I was like, Oh my god, I had no idea, you know. So I rang back the doctors the next day and she just said to me, I'm sorry, I don't have time to do the surgery. You're going to have to find someone else to do it. And I'm like, What do you mean? What am I supposed to do? At this point, I was like, This baby's been in my stomach for two and a half weeks with no, you know, we need to do something about this because you can get infections, you can there's that. She just didn't care. And she just said, I don't have time for this. You can, if you're concerned about the bleeding out, I can give you the medication and admit you to hospital so you can just do it in there. I was like, I don't want to do that. I'm in enough mental pain, I don't really want to go through labor, you know. Um, and I know everyone's different. Some people want to take that path, some people don't. I didn't. I also wanted the option that if the baby was surgically removed, it could be tested to see what was you know, if there was anything chromosomally wrong with it or genetically wrong with it. But if you don't do that, you're a dark idea. I was never going to get any answers. So I pushed for it and she just said no. So we it took us a week to find somebody that would do it for us. So it was the longest week ever, and we spent the whole week on phone calls just being like, please, someone do it. At one stage, one of the doctors said, Look, everywhere is really busy. You may be better just to go to an abortion clinic to have them remove it. Um, we ended up finding a specialist who did it who just couldn't believe it. He was like, This should have been done as soon as you found out, and now we can test the baby and all of these things. And I think it was from that point that I'm like, I have to advocate for myself because no one else cares about your circumstance as much as you do, and no one's gonna come in and you know do it for you. So that's where things really changed. And ever since then, if things aren't right, I'm like, no, I'm not doing this.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Yeah, well, I'm glad, like that's disgusting, that whole experience. What year was this? 2023. Yeah, like it's recent, do you know what I mean? Like you would think that the medical field was so much more advanced. And I mean, I'm only going off what you just told me, but it sounds like it was a very transactional appointment as well. Like, where's the compassion? Where's the empathy? Like, I'm so sorry for your loss.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Here's a tablet, see you later. Yeah, and there was no phone call afterwards, like, you know, to check in, like, are you okay? And did you, you know, did you work out what you were going to do? Nothing like that. And then I still got a phone call from their team, I think two weeks later saying, Oh, we're just calling to book you in with the midwives for your pregnancy. You'd be about 17 weeks in and I'm like, I actually lost that pregnancy. But she had actually put the referral in for the midwives after I'd had the loss. So it was just, I was just another number, you know, that it's just I have obviously never gone back to that clinic again.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

But it wasn't I mean, feel free to share the name off of recording, but so like no one else goes there. Um, I'm disgusted for you, but I'm so proud. I guess every single woman in that circumstance would be so different. And like not only did you have to manage and navigate through the feelings of your first loss, which you'd never experienced before, so you have no idea what's about to hit you grief-wise, or you're already in the grief while still having to advocate for yourself mentally and health-wise, physically, so that you were safe. How the hell is that acceptable? I'm blown away for you. I'm really sad for you. I'm so sad.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

And I think the thing is you were sort of like I was like, I need to grieve, but I could not grieve until we'd got through the surgery and you know, because my it was all just consumed by what are we gonna do? Yeah. I'm still into like planning mode with this big belly with this baby inside me with no heartbeat, you know, but no one's gonna help me. And it obviously wasn't going to happen naturally because it weeks. Yeah. Oh my god, I'm so sorry. It was such a traumatic time, but that was such a pivotal point in my life and sort of my career path. Like I'm also a beauty therapist, but and I still do that, but my passion really lies in helping people in this kind of situation.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

I can imagine. And again, yeah, we thank you for that. Was there a difference in your experience and how you showed up for yourself with your next loss? Because how how many losses have you had, if you don't mind me asking?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

I have, well, if you count the most recent one, I've got five angels. Um, but three of those were around a similar time. So they were all around the 12-week mark. Um, the second one really took us by surprise because the first one we were sort of like we had testing done and everything came back normal. So we were sort of to like led to believe that it was just a once-off and it wouldn't happen again. So we were under a fertility specialist and I was taking progesterone and stuff like that. And then we I know I had really bad anxiety, and I went to my obstetrician here and I said, Look, I'm just at the same like gestation of my last loss. Do you think that you could just check for the heartbeat and you know, things like that? Because I was in between scans, and she's like, sure. She put the ultrasound on and she was just like, I'm so sorry, there's no heartbeat. And it had only happened like within the last few days. Um so they were they've all been equally as devastating. And I think we've just known how to advocate for ourselves and be like, okay, I need surgery, I'm not taking the tablets. Yeah. You know, so things run a lot smoother the next time. And I think because I was already linked in with a new fertility specialist, we could get that done straight away. You know, how to do that. The right people around you this time. Yeah. And I think with my with two of the losses, I actually had retained tissue after the surgery. So I had to have the surgery done again three weeks after both of those. The first time I was ignored, and they were like, It's normal to bleed for three weeks after your DNC. And I was like, Yeah, but I'm not feeling well. I feel really unwell and like I was dizzy. And they just ignored me, and I'm like, something's not right. And then my GP said, Maybe just go and have an ultrasound. And there was heaps of retained tissue in there. So they were like, Well, you need to get this out because this could become septic. And then my next. I'm unwell, I told you. Yeah, I told you that. He goes, Oh, I'm sorry, you know, like oh, I'm happy to admit fault here. And I'm like, Oh my god, it's no good if something really bad happened. And then we left him, obviously. And then the next one, I knew I had retained tissue because I bled for a long time after my DNC. So we got onto it a lot quicker. Like I was like, I need an ultrasound tomorrow. The retained tissue was there. I think I had the surgery the next day, you know. So just knowledge. And I'm someone that will over-research everything. So when I'm speaking to the doctors, I know what they're talking about, and I can go to them and go, What about this? And that, oh, she knows what she's talking about. So, you know, yeah, yeah, it does make a huge difference.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah. And you have that confidence behind the questions you're asking because you know what they're saying. Yeah, and they can't, it's it's less easy for them to brush things over you because you're like, no, no, no, back it up a bit. I want to talk about this.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

What about this? And you know, this shouldn't happen. Okay, she actually knows. And I've seen it with most of my clients. A lot of them don't know much at all. And they will be like, Oh, but my doctor said this. And I'm like, ask them this. And they're like, Oh, I'm too scared to ask these questions. And I'm like, ask them this. You're the patient, you're paying for it, you know. Yeah. And most of the time the doctors do respect you having your own knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah. Well, a good, a good decent doctor will. If if you feel, I guess it's a probably a warning sign if you feel hesitant to bring something up to your doctor, like you should feel safe and comfortable enough to ask questions, like they've got your back, right? Um, if you don't mind me asking, because obviously you had you've had two beautiful children before these losses, could they explain to you why all of a sudden your body kept miscarrying?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

So my girls now are nine and ten, so there's been there's a huge gap. Um, but with my first loss, I caught COVID right before I lost the baby. And it is a controversial kind of topic. But I also do think it may have something to do with me having the COVID vaccination in my pregnancies. And one of my a couple of my doctors have actually agreed that, you know, this could be what happened. But then me catching COVID and the loss was very soon after that. It's they think what's happened is my body has developed some kind of immune reaction to the placenta. So when my body's getting to the point that the placenta is taking over, my body's attacking it because it thinks that it's, you know, an invasion or a viral infection or something like that. So placenta, which then starves the baby, so they can't progress. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

And again, again, we're in this position where it's a brand new virus for us, and we have to take the government's word that you fast-tracked this vaccine for us. Like I had it as well. Um, a friend of mine had the COVID vaccine, and she wasn't pregnant or anything, but she's had um issues like in her stomach, in her uterus, everything just from having the vaccine. So I'm not gonna start a controversial podcast, but like, you know, it started.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

And I was very careful to talk about it. I think I spoke about it once and it was such a mixed report. Like some people, like, I totally agree. And then some people just come for you. And I'm like, uh, it's just not a can of worms that I'm really Yeah, yeah, no, I agree for sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

But it's just your experience, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yeah, and it's just it sort of all ties in, you know, like I caught COVID and then I've just had issues ever since. Um, and that was another thing, is that my fertility specialists were like, oh, we don't believe in immune issues, but we had tested everything else, and all babies that I've lost have been sent away for genetic testing and all come back normal. So um a lot of them were like, Oh, it's probably a chromosome issue, and then they'll send it away and they'll ring and be like, it actually came back normal. And I'm like, I know it's my body because they're all at the same time. I'm like, there's a pattern here. And my last so my last pregnancy that I lost at 12 weeks, my specialist refused to give me any immune medications because there's medications to stop your immune system from attacking. She was like, I don't believe in it. I'll give you progesterone and I'll give you aspirin. I think it wasn't. I'm like, okay, well, I trust the doctor, I'll see that. And then we have the exact same loss. And then she's like, Do you know what? Maybe I will refer you to a reproductive immunologist because something's not right here. And I'm like, so I had to go through three really like traumatic losses for you to be like TV's immune related.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

And yeah. I just don't agree with doctors saying I don't believe in that. Like you're this isn't a religion, it's science. You're a doctor, but doctors are also supposed to advocate for like each client's needs. And if I want something different than Abby, then you treat us differently. It's not up to you what I do with my body. So I'm so mad for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

And I'm like, I've obviously I don't think I said it on here, but I'm pregnant at the moment, and I'm only 17 weeks on an immune protocol. So this is the you know. It didn't I wasn't on it for the last three, and I wasn't able to sustain the pregnancy. Now I'm taking a very extensive protocol and I'm pregnant, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

And it and it sounds like a lot, obviously, you've had some guidance from some professionals, but a lot of it is your own research, trusting your gut, trial and error, unfortunately, and going, I know it's been this consistently, regardless of what people are telling me. I'm just gonna make sure I advocate for what I think is happening. And now you're 17 weeks. So yeah, well, we're proud of you for advocating for yourself. Congratulations again on your bubble. Let's go back a little bit. So, have you got any advice for women that are trying to fall pregnant that's really important for conception and fertility? And does that really have a correlation to the rev the rest of the pregnancy once they're pregnant?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

So, do you mean before they conceive?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Yeah, before they fall pregnant, anything they do for their body that will provide a healthy pregnancy, or are they two completely separate stages?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

I think it's so important for us to have a round of bloods, you know, sort of know where our health is at, because there are so many times the doctors will say, Oh, your bloods are normal, but they're not like they won't say that. You look at them and you're like, but they're not optimal, you know. And when you're pregnant, your body takes so much of your vitamins and your nutrients. So you want to have higher levels prior to getting pregnant. Um, it's also important for women to realize that it's not all on you, it's also it takes two, you know. And I have so many women that come to me that are like, I feel like my body's not working and it's not doing this, and I'm doing all of these things, but their partner's not doing anything. And a lot of the time it does turn out that it's actually their partner's sperm. So they've been going through years of trying to do everything, taking every supplement, every medication they can under the sun before the partner's even looked at, you know, it's very overlooked everywhere. Um, so I think just knowledge is power before you start trying. Um and I think a lot of women, I I know this, but a lot of women don't. But they you can only get pregnant six days of the month, you know. And yeah, we were taught growing up that you have to protect all the time and you have to be on contraception because you can get pregnant at any time. But there's such a small window, and your body is always giving you little messages, you know, like with your cervical mucus and understanding those things are so important when you're trying to conceive.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Yeah, beautiful. Because um my I my partner and I, like I mentioned, are trying for a baby. And we knew that before you conceive whatever kind of happened to both of you in the the three months leading up to that is what determines like the quality and the health of the egg and the sperm. So we've just been trying to be so healthy, um, eating well, sleeping well, less stress, exercise, things like that. Um, and I found out the fun fact that it's the male, it is it their sperm or the genetics that build the placenta. Yeah, it comes from the sperm. Yeah. Yeah. So dependent on how healthy the male is, is how sick you'll be in your pregnancy. And I was like, I'll be damned. And like get your ass in the gym.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

I'm not gonna collect shit. And I think that this is like people will say, I've been so healthy in the last month and I'm still not getting pregnant. And I'm like, it actually takes three months for both of you, you know. So, but that is also a great thing because you know, my partner got COVID at one stage and it pretty much wiped out all of his sperm. And I was like, that's okay, because in three months' time, you know, you work well, and then we fell pregnant, you know. So it's not uh what you're doing right now isn't as important as what you've been doing for the whole three months. You're so right.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Yeah, for sure. And what about when people fall pregnant? Is there um, especially in that first trimester, right? That's like what the doctors call the danger zone or the I want to take that stigma away. I think that's where a lot of the anxiety can come from. But we do know that we have to be cautious in those three months. So, do you have any advice for those three months when when women have fallen pregnant?

SPEAKER_00 23:39

I think everyone is so different. You know, some people want the extra monitoring, like myself. I like extra monitoring, make sure I've got extra progesterone and extra testing. But then in saying that when I had my girls 10 years ago, nothing, you know, I just kept calm and just, you know, tried to I I don't know, I was just so innocent with it all. So I just went with the flow and what with what the doctor said. But I think you just need to listen to your body. That's my biggest advice. You know, if you need to rest, and rest helps, you know, try and drink heaps of water, take your prenatal if you can. If you're feeling sick, speak to your doctor because you don't have to suffer, you know, and some people will just suffer in silence. And I think it's okay to speak up and ask for help because that first trimester can be tough.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yeah, for sure. And I like that you mentioned obviously you've had two different experiences, right? Because you, when you had your first two and nothing was wrong, you haven't yet had a reason to feel anxious, right? Or worried or stressed or cautious. You're like, I'm pregnant, I'm I feel great, I'm healthy, like I can't wait to be a mom. And loss after loss, every time you fall pregnant, it it kind of, and I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but you want to feel happy that you're pregnant, but it can feel flooded by anxiety and stress. Like, talk me through the difference in your two experiences, mainly for the the anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Oh, for sure. You know, with the girls, I everything I was like, oh, this must be normal. Like, oh, I'm having a little, oh cool, it must be growing. Whereas even in this pregnancy, when I found out I was pregnant, because we'd actually said, We're we're not doing any more fertility treatment, we don't want to try anymore, and we'd hung the boots up pretty much. And then I found out that I was unexpectedly pregnant, and I had recorded it, I've done a post on it on my Instagram, but I it was like I was going to faint. Looking at that line, I was like, what do you mean? And I was at that, you would think that I would have been so excited because this is what I've been chasing for years, but just looking, I know that two pink lines doesn't always equal a baby, and I think that that's what all these losses have really robbed from me. So much of that innocence and so much of that everything's just gonna work out because you know that things can go bad. Yeah. When you've never had that before, unless you've listened to a lot of people's stories and you know you're an anxious person, usually you're quite innocent in your pregnancy. You're just like, I'm pregnant, right? I'm gonna be due in December, and that's the end of the story. I'll go to four ultrasounds. But this pregnancy, you know, I think I'm on my 11th ultrasound already, and I'm only 17 weeks, you know? So very different experiences, and it definitely robs you of so much joy and happiness. And I do have little bouts of it where I'm like, oh my god, this is really happening, but then the other part of you is just waiting for the shoe to drop, you know, because you're past trauma.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

It's so a shame. Like, how do you how do you manage that for yourself? How do you make sure that you don't take the time that you have for granted and allow yourself to be grateful and happy and in the moment whilst being a human and fighting off like that anxiety and the stress and concern? How do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 27:08

I think I'm a pretty positive person. And I also think because I have advocated so hard to get this protocol that I'm on, I am very much like I am doing everything I can in my control. I can't do anything else. And me being an anxious mess and overthinking what's happened in the past, it's just not gonna serve me and it's gonna make my life so hard to live. So I just chose. Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna allow myself to feel those anxious thoughts, you know, now and then, but I won't let them control my life because I have it's a lot gonna be a long 10 months, you know, nine months. And I think I'm probably going to have that anxiety until the baby is safely born. And it is what it is, but I know that I'm doing everything possible that I can. And sometimes you just have to be like, I just have to see where it goes, you know.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Yeah. And I think it's also important to mention, like, not to put pressure on yourself to not feel anxious.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Give yourself some credit. Like, you feel anxious rightfully so. You feel worried and concerned rightfully so. So it's about part of that advocacy for yourself, is also you're only human, you're allowed to feel whatever you want to feel. And if that means being anxious, and that means being worried, whilst also allowing yourself to be happy. Have any of your clients experienced the guilt of maybe finally giving birth and then feeling guilty that possibly other angels hadn't made it?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

All the time, you know. A lot of my clients will say, I even when they've fallen pregnant again not long after their losses, like I feel so guilty because I feel like uh people think I've just moved on from that loss or like you know, and it it's horrible. Um, yeah, it is just it's such a common feeling. And yeah, like you I can speak to clients and they're like, I'm I'm like so blessed and grateful to have this baby in my arms, but then I'm still grieving the ones that are up there, you know. Yeah, yeah. Have you read um Chloe Fisher's book? No, but I have followed so much of her story because she's on very much she was on a very similar protocol than what I am.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Yeah. I've read her book and she pretty much exactly the same language you're using, just the anxiety she experienced every single time she was pregnant, because it's like, well, what's gonna happen? It's almost like I can't enjoy it because I know what's about to happen, you know. It was such a beautiful story and obviously great ending, but it's interesting how so many women go through this. Like, how common is it to miscarry?

SPEAKER_00 29:58

They say it's one in four, which is pretty high, you know. So I think since I've opened up and started talking about it, my inbox is just full of people that you would have never had any idea had ever been through it that are like, I've had four losses, or I've had one loss, or we've been trying to conceive for this long, and it just blows your mind how common it is and how many people feel like they can't talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Yeah. Why do you feel like women struggle to talk about their miscarriages?

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Why do they suffer in silence, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 30:34

I think some people feel uncomfortable, not the person that's had the loss, but the people that you're speaking to. And I think a lot of people don't understand. So you feel really misunderstood. And I think even before I had my first loss, I had friends that had had miscarriages and I didn't understand it. And I was like, Oh, that sucks, you know. Yeah, that would have been hard. And that was sort of it until you go through it yourself, and you have it's not just the loss of the baby, you're also postpartum after. Yeah, hormones are still there, right? Without the baby, and then you have the big hormone crash, and then you're just expected to just get over it, you know, and just move on. But it just you will have really good days, and then you'll just have these waves of devastation because you're like, I should have been having the baby next week, or you know, like all of these things that no one else thinks about, and I think people struggle to talk about it because you do have a sense of like people just think, I'll get over it, you know, it's not that big deal, or people have it worse than you. Um, and I think in my circumstance, there's a lot of people that have secondary infertility and secondary infertilities when you've had children and then you struggle to conceive or have losses after them. That's quite hard to talk about because a lot of people will say, Well, at least you have kids, you know? That's awful, yeah. So then you sort of feel like not safe enough to speak about it because people are like, Oh, well, just enjoy the kids you've got and get over it. So, yeah, it's why I've made it such a big thing of talking about it. And there's so many people that are like, I've been going through this and I I didn't tell anyone, or you know, some people like I'm very lucky to have a very supportive partner who's very emotionally intelligent, but there's so many women that their partners to are just like, oh well, we'll just try again. Like, it's no big deal, just get over it.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

But we're carrying the baby, and you know, there's just so much that comes with it, and your hormones and yeah, it's it's when you think of it like big picture, it's crazy how not a thing it is, like how how everyone's expected to just kind of carry on, especially women that don't say they're pregnant in the first trimester and they miscarry, no one even knew they were pregnant, so then they have to grieve in private because no one knew you were pregnant, you're not gonna announce that you've miscarried because you didn't announce your pregnancy, right? Yeah. And it's not like if your partner passed away or a family member, you have time off from work to grieve, you have like a ceremony or a funeral or whatever you have, but it's like you feel like it's the same loss. You've lost a part of you, you've lost something that you've planned for. And it's crazy that it's so brushed over. Yeah, all the milestones are already in your calendar. Like you why is it so brushed over? It's awful. And I really hope, I hope that it becomes a bigger thing in terms of a safe space for women to talk about. And it starts with, you know, people like you that give that space and safety to women. And I know, like you mentioned, you don't really know about it until you've gone through it. So I'm sure once you have, you find the communities and you find the people to talk to, but it should be, it should be such a bigger space for people to feel safe to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah, and going back to people that don't announce until they're, you know, 12 weeks. And I think that's like I had people when I had my second pregnancy after the first loss, and I had told a friend that I was pregnant, and she said to me, Oh, how far long are you? And I said, Oh, I'm only eight weeks, and she's like, I wouldn't be telling people that because what if you're losing like the other one? And I'm like, Well, then I'm gonna want people in my corner to support, you know. So I'm probably gonna tell people that I've had this loss, so I want to enjoy my pregnancy right now. Like that's sad. I don't know why people are so uncomfortable with talking about it.

unknown 34:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

It's almost like your baby doesn't exist until it's past 12 weeks. Like that's I'm still going through the symptoms. I will talk about this pregnancy before 12 weeks. Yeah. That's that's sad. And I wonder if I wonder if it's like people are scared of the shame or the guilt, or they don't want people to feel sorry for them if they lose the baby, maybe. Like it's such a scary time for women the first trimester, but they feel like they have to go through it alone. Like it's I don't know who set this rule up.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

I don't know either, but it just needs to grow, you know, because even women that have chemical pregnancies and chemical pregnancies when you've had your loss before five weeks, you get your positive tests, and then it doesn't, you know, it just goes within the week. And that is so traumatic for women too, because they yeah, they put all of these plans in place and think I'm pregnant, and then all of a sudden it's just gone, it's just ripped away, you know. And those a lot of those people feel like, you know, it was so early, so they hadn't even had a chance to tell anyone. So then they just suffer in silence.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Yeah. And it's such an exciting time. Like, I'm sure when women fall pregnant before, like in their first trimester, and they're so excited to tell, but they're like, Oh, I can't, like, I'm I'm not past that three-month mark yet. Who fucking cares? And then no one knows that that woman might be grieving because no one in her circle knows that she was pregnant. It's such a weird stigma. Um yeah, it's really sad. Did you you, apart from the friend that you just mentioned, did you go through anything like that? And now that you're advocating for it, do you find that you want to also advocate for telling people you're pregnant earlier?

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Uh, so this current pregnancy, we told most of our family and friends early, but we didn't tell the kids until I was 15 weeks, and that was just to talk to them. Yeah, sure. But I was like, I think we'd told our family a few days after we found out that we were pregnant, you know, and all of my I felt like I could speak to people and like because I was having weekly ultrasounds, so I would be able to update people, and you know, it was just nice to take people on that journey with me because otherwise it's so lonely. Um, but uh so many people do it, they they wait till the 12-week mark, and I know better than anyone that there is no perfect safe point, you know.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

Yeah, and I think that's the misconception as well. Like, and I wonder how many women, like for you, especially, you get past the 12-month uh 12 month, 12-week mark, and you go, oh, like a sigh of relief, but then you can still you can still miscarry past 12 weeks. Like that's an extra devastation because you're like, I thought I was in the safe zone. Yeah, yeah. That's awful. That's so hard to carry.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think you've just got to find your people that you can talk to, and yeah, you you soon figure out who wants to support you and who wants to listen and who doesn't.

unknown 37:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

And what would you say to women who have had maybe multiple miscarriages and they feel like the guilt of like my body's not working or it's my fault, or like, how do you talk them through the mental, I guess, well, first I think it's a very valid feeling.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Most of us do feel like that at some point. But I think that's when you sort of have to go into a little bit of detective mode to be like my body's actually giving me some kind of clues of what's going on, and you just have to try and keep digging for it. And a lot of I think a lot of people feel like that when the doctors say to them, you have unexplained infertility or unexplained recurrent loss. Because, in my opinion, it's not a thing, it's just that I haven't dug deeper to like enough to find what's wrong. There is always a root cause, and there's always things that you can try and do and research, but you have to do it. That unfortunately, yeah. I think when people feel like that too, it's so important that they do speak to other people or you know, seek help because that is such a shitty feeling for you to be like, it's all me, it's my body. And I felt like that heaps of times because I'm like, it's my body, it's truly rejecting these babies. And you know, like the family, like my husband's gotten excited, the kids get excited, and then my body does this, and you're like, it's not the babies, it's me, you know. So it is a shitty feeling, and I think you know, I did a lot of therapy and a lot of research myself and a lot of talking to other people, and it yeah, I think that's the way, the only way you can get through it is to sort of work through it, and you can't stay in that place or things aren't gonna shift.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Yeah, for sure. Then you have to carry the thoughts of like, oh, well, you know, stress is not good for this anyway, and anxiety are and it's just your quality of life as well, right? Overall.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah. Yeah. And that's a similar kind of thing as like I have a lot of clients that are in the two-week wait, you know, they do everything and then they've got to wait to see if they're pregnant. And a lot of my clients will say to me, I don't want to get my hopes up because it's gonna hurt so much if it's not positive at the end. And my biggest thing that I always say to them is, it's going to hurt the exact same way, whether you've been positive or negative in those two weeks. The only difference is in those two weeks, if you are positive and hopeful, your life has been so much easier to live for those two weeks. But the crash at the end is going to be exactly the same. So you may as well try and have a bit of hope, you know?

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Yeah. When you like you can talk about this now with your experience, how are you finding that you're balancing the hope that things are going well and the hope that you'll get to the end mark while still protecting your heart almost? It's almost like we've made it this far and we're gonna keep going. But do you find those reservations coming up where you you keep catching yourself kind of scared to hope?

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Yeah, and I think with this pregnancy, it actually started out as twins. So we lost twin B at 11 weeks after having perfect stands all up until then, and then we lost that one. So this pregnancy has really taught me about grief and hope coexisting, you know, because I think also with what you're asking, with trying to balance that, is I'm not looking too far into the future. It's sort of day to day, week to week, if that makes sense. Like if every day that I get further that I'm still pregnant, I feel a little bit better. And it that's just sort of how it is. I'm just not trying to get too far ahead of myself. Um and I'm just constantly sort of saying to myself, Well, I have no reason to think this isn't gonna work out. And until if something was to prove me wrong, I'm still pregnant, you know. So yeah, which is the easier said than one, you know, yeah. But I've had to work on my mindset a lot to get there. But some days I'm definitely just like, I'm just I'm not someone though, even up until we lost uh twin bee. I'm not someone that will be like, I just feel like I'm gonna lose this pregnancy and this and that. I I just don't put those words out into existence. Yeah, and I'm also not someone that is toxic positivity, that I'm like, yeah, you can't think those things because we're human, we're going to think those things. I just don't allow myself to dwell on them.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yeah. I think it's probably um a like a gratitude point to say that you did your coaching program because obviously we learn a lot about like the mindset stuff in our coaching program. But aside from you know, your really strong positive mindset, what else are you doing to kind of make sure that you're looked after during this phase? That could be leaning on your partner, like self-care habits. What are you doing for yourself in this moment?

SPEAKER_00 43:03

I am walking. So I was going to the gym a lot beforehand, but then uh I wasn't allowed to because I was having a lot of bleeding and stuff like that. So I've been walking more so just for my mental health. Um, and I have been sharing my journey on socials, and that has helped a lot to just get it out there, you know. It's sort of been like a bit of a personal diary, just of this is how it feels. And I think a lot having a lot of people come back and say, I know how this feels, or you know, thank you for speaking about this has helped me. It's also heartbreaking to see how many people have gone through it. But yeah, my husband's so supportive, and he will sit there and hold the space for me to feel whatever I feel, even if it's weeks after things have happened. And um yeah, so I my mom and my family is very supportive as well. And I think just having friends that will check in does make life a lot easier. I'm a very open book. You know, so that also helps because I'm sort of like, well, I'm not gonna do it in silence.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

So yeah, yeah, you shouldn't have to. I think after this, the biggest takeaway is like, you know, you don't have to go through this alone. Um, and you mentioned like it's heartbreaking hearing other women go through it, but the beauty in that as well is you both sit there and recognize, oh, I'm not alone in this, like it's common other people are going through it, and then you have that connection, you have the validation of your experience because you were suffering alone before you reached out, right? Um yeah, so it's so important to have that.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

I think that's where like the idea of me wanting to be a fertility coach with that aspect of loss and helping people in that came from because I was like, there's so many women that have no one, yeah, no one at all to talk to, and they are struggling. I just wanted to have that safe space for them. That was really it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah. Have you found a lot of the women, well, not a lot of them, but some of the women reaching out are by themselves, and they're obviously grateful that they've found your page and yeah, very much, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Yeah, a lot of women will come and say, I, you know, I none of my friends knew about it, or my partner, my partner doesn't like understand, and and men don't understand because they're not us, they don't go through the hormones and things like that. So it is different to have another woman with lived experience to talk to.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Yeah, that's such an important distinction. Like you can have a partner but still feel alone in the process. Yeah, like I meant people that were single, but that is such a an important distinction that you know your partner doesn't know what you're going through. Yeah, like your partner has no idea, especially after the the loss. Do you have any advice in terms of what your partner can do in the moments after a pregnancy loss? Like, how can they step in and advocate?

SPEAKER_00 45:56

I think the important thing is a lot of these men are struggling as well with the loss because it was their baby too, but they get forgotten about a lot. And I have seen that a lot with myself is a lot of people will say to my partner, How is Abby? But they won't say, How are you? And you know, as a man, they just you know, it is what it is, but I think they also need to be looked after as well. But for a man trying to look after their partner, I think talk about it, and if they want to talk about it, give them the safe space, and you don't have to always try and give them an answer or anything, just give them a safe space to be able to agree, you know. Don't make them feel guilty for bringing it up three weeks later or like they should move on. I think that's the biggest thing is that most women, I don't know many women that have just had a loss and then just gotten over it because it lingers.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Years later still, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There should be no expectation for that. Do you do you and your partner have um I'm not gonna use the word celebrate, but like little milestones to I don't know, I'm just gonna use the word celebrate, but I don't mean celebrate. Like your your angels, do you guys have anniversaries or anything that you do to help with the grief, or how are you guys processing it?

SPEAKER_00 47:21

With the first one, we planted a tree down the back of the um, and it's got like a little sign that the kids have sort of written on and stuff because they're a big part of that loss. Um, that's sort of the place that we will go for all of our losses. Uh, the girls don't know about all of the losses, they only know about the first one. So we didn't do a big sort of ceremony thing like we did with the first with the kids. Um, but that's sort of a safe place for us down there. And we were actually speaking this morning that with this twin B that we're still carrying, because that will just stay in there for the duration of my pregnancy, and then when I give birth to baby A, the other baby will come out with the placenta. So we were actually speaking today that we may ask them to give us the placenta to bury, so you know, because the baby will be in the placenta, so and we'll probably bury that down with the other tree.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

So I just think it's emotional for you because I just realized like when you give birth, like putting it out there, when you give birth, you still have to have that moment that yeah, baby B is there, like, oh sorry, my heart's hurting for you.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Um yeah, and you know, and I think me talking about it and bringing that up on my socials, there's a lot I didn't know either. Like I've had all singleton pregnancies, and then I've had a twin pregnancy, but now other women have come in and said, Oh, when I when this happened to me, the baby came out with the placenta. And this is sort of how I got to know these things. Yeah, that was where the idea came for it. All of it comes out, then we can actually because the rest of our babies all got sent away for testing, that's it, you don't get them back, you know. Like that's the end. But this one's going to be carried with me for the whole pregnancy, and we're sort of looking at this little baby as like it's the remaining, like the surviving twins, little guardian angel. And I don't know what the purpose of me being pregnant with twins was, but we're trying to look at it like maybe I had to get pregnant with two to have the extra hormones or to have something extra for the one to be able to make it earthwide. So we're just trying to find yeah, so we will yeah, we'll do something special at the end of it.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

And we still haven't told our girls that there was a twin, but we will because this little baby apparently when a twin's born without their other twin, they you know, they get to a certain point where they feel like they're sort of missing something, so um, it'll be a nice space for them to go to, so connected, and I'm not sure if you um from like all the NLP and coaching and everything we've done, like obviously we know we can delve into the subconscious. I wonder if baby A will remember baby B. Like, yeah, yeah, they'll be so connected, like it'll be so beautiful. Oh, I'm getting so emotional.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

I've watched so many videos of people in similar situations, and they're like, My kid got to like three years old or four-year-old, and then they started talking about this twin that they were never told about, and you know, so yeah, oh that'd be very interesting to see.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Yeah, yeah, your baby's gonna have such a spiritual journey, like it's gonna be so beautiful. Oh my god. I'm gonna keep crying. So talk us through if someone were to work with you, because you obviously do one-on-one, what kind of services would you offer to people if they were to reach out to you?

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah, so at the moment I am creating a bit of a course that's like a trying to conceive basics, you know, on your fertility window, all of those things. So that is coming in the coming months, but I'm only really doing one-on-ones at the moment. So it'll be, you know, they've got access to me pretty much every day. It's like when people are in the thick of these things, they're like, hey, this is what my cervical mucus looks like today. What does this mean? And I can help them, you know, understand all these little gaps. Um, and we do, you know, Zoom calls, and you know, it's just like they've got me in their back pocket all the time while they're going through it. Yeah. So they can just reach out to me if anyone, you know, is interested in anything like that, and we can go through the options there.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you can list off, I'll I'll plug everything in this description for anyone listening that would love to reach out to Abby. But um, do you want to just mention what your Instagram handle is and where they can find you?

SPEAKER_00 51:49

It's Abby Chester underscore co.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Perfect. Yeah. Um, yeah, so if anyone wants to reach out to Abby, I will leave that in the description below. Do you have anything else you want to share or any one message that you kind of want to drive home to anyone listening in this situation?

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Um, I just want these women to be gentle with themselves and just remember that their body's not the enemy and that they don't have to do it on their own.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:20

There's people there that can help you and hold your hand, and yeah, you don't have to be a brave person.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

I love that, Abby. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Yeah, I definitely rave about you all the time, and I'll share all of your stuff because I think it's so important that women have this space and somewhere to go that they feel safe and trust. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Thank you. It was lovely.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Okay, gorgeous. That's a wrap on today's episode of Woke Up Worthy. If this spoke to you, don't forget to follow the pod, hit that bell, and drop a five-star review so more gals can find this space too. If you're needing some extra support, confidence tools, and maybe some behind the scenes goodies, tap the link in the description to connect with me and join the community. Until next time, babe, don't forget, choose yourself, back yourself, and more importantly, remember, you woke up worthy.