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Health & Fitness Redefined
Health and Fitness Redefined with Anthony Amen. Take a dive into the health world as we learn how to overcome adversity, depict fact vs fiction and see health & fitness in a whole new light.Fitness Is Medicine
Health & Fitness Redefined
Optimizing Brain Health: Strategies to Prevent Alzheimer's and Dementia
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Dr. Teryn Clark, a neurologist with a passion for brain health, who shares her personal journey into the field and the profound impact her mother's battle with dementia had on her career and focus. Dr. Clark differentiates dementia from Alzheimer's, explaining how the former is a symptom and the latter a disease, and explores various risk factors contributing to cognitive decline. Her proactive stance on preventative brain health is detailed in her "Brain Health Action Plan," aiming to arm listeners with practical lifestyle changes to safeguard their cognitive well-being.
Get ready to rethink your dietary habits as we examine the significant effects of sugar on brain health and Alzheimer's risk. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, Dr. Clark discusses how reducing sugar intake can lower the chances of developing Alzheimer's and empower healthier living. We contrast past and present sugar consumption trends, shedding light on the increasing health risks processed foods and seed oils pose today. Dr. Clark also provides strategies to overcome sweetness addiction and emphasizes the importance of incorporating both physical and cognitive exercises to bolster brain health.
Sleep, supplements, and holistic health feature prominently as we explore their roles in maintaining cognitive function. Dr. Clark offers practical advice on improving sleep hygiene and the brain-cleansing benefits of deep sleep. We also discuss the cognitive advantages of various supplements and the crucial interplay between mental health and dementia risk. Through a holistic lens, Dr. Clark underscores the necessity of integrating exercise, nutrition, and lifestyle changes into daily routines, advocating for a comprehensive approach to optimizing brain health and reducing the risk of cognitive decline.
Learn More at: www.Redefine-Fitness.com
Hello and welcome to Health and Fitness Redefined. I'm your host, anthony Amen, and today we have another great episode for everyone here. Really excited to talk about this topic, really excited to have on today's guest. So, without further ado, let's welcome to the show, dr Taryn Clark. Taryn, it's a pleasure to have you on today.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for having me on, anthony, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am really excited to talk about the topic we're going to talk about today because I really haven't dived deep, especially with neurologists. So excited about that. But before we get started, just tell people a little bit about yourself and why you even became a neurologist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tell people a little bit about yourself and why you even became a neurologist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I became a neurologist because I thought the brain and the nervous system in general was just the most fascinating part of the body.
Speaker 2:I still think that. And then I was in general neurology for about 10 years before I specialized in dementia and cognitive impairment, and so that ended up being taken care of a lot of patients with Alzheimer's disease and other dementias. And then, when my mom died from dementia in 2021, I took a step back from my clinic and decided that I was going to focus on preventative brain health for people like me who have Alzheimer's disease in their family and don't have good guidance on what we could be doing now with our health to try to stave that off or prevent it altogether. And then part of that sabbatical, as I was reformatting my clinic, ended up in writing a book called Brain Health Action Plan to help people figure out how to take control of their own lifestyle risk factors and keep their brains healthy, because they're just not enough guidance out there and it's not broken down into simple steps that people can take in their different lifestyle areas, and so that's what the book's all about.
Speaker 1:I love that. And then just for basics, what's the difference between dementia and Alzheimer's?
Speaker 2:I love that question. I think the lay press has really made it confusing for people. The difference between dementia and Alzheimer's has been blurred because sometimes those words are used interchangeably and they're not the same thing. So dementia is a symptom and Alzheimer's disease is an underlying process. That is a disease. So think about it like fever and the flu. So fever is a symptom, and if you went to the doctor with a fever and they said, oh yep, you know what your diagnosis is Fever You'd be really disappointed with your visit, because you're trying to find out what's causing the fever so you can get it, the underlying problem, treat it and get better. So it's the same thing with dementia.
Speaker 2:Dementia, just tells me, it's a description of somebody functioning at a level that's less than what they used to function at. For example, they can't pay their monthly bills, they maybe can't drive their car, and so then the question is what's causing somebody to function at that new level? And so then the question is what's causing somebody to function at that new level? And it could be Alzheimer's disease, it could be cerebrovascular disease or small strokes building up, it can be diabetes. There's some people that have come to my organ that sometimes it's the canary in a coal mine, that something else is wrong with our body. B12 deficiency can cause dementia. In fact, earlier in the last century that was a major cause of dementia because we weren't diagnosing it and treating it. So there are a lot of things besides Alzheimer's disease that can cause dementia, just like there are a lot of things besides flu that can cause fever, but certainly flu is a big one. So it's kind of the same. It's pretty similar when you think of it in that context.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dementia being the symptom of everything, which totally makes sense, and I'm glad you went into the different types of things that cause dementia, because that was going to be my next question. So thanks for getting me to the punch. You did teach me something right there. I never knew that B12 deficiency could be linked to developing dementia.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and if you find it early, it's completely reversible, which is why it's one of the tests we usually do when anybody has any sort of memory change. But if it's left untreated for a long period of time, then it'll become permanent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're really putting down the vegan diet, which I totally agree with. But it just shows another reason not to do it, but a very, very curious on that. So I want to start with Alzheimer's, because I think that's probably the most prevalent disease that people think of, especially as they age. So genetics, I can just assume, are the biggest risk factor for Alzheimer's, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we can measure genetics, and the most common one people your listeners may have heard of your clients is the APOE gene. So we're looking for the variant of that gene that accelerates the risk for Alzheimer's, called APOE4. And so genetics is part of this, just like in every disease. I mean, our genetics can set us up for things, but really genetics load the gun and our environment pulls the trigger.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I, I in the book I I use the example of one of my patients and she represents a handful of patients that I've had who have terrible genetics for Alzheimer's disease and I should. I should also clarify there are some families who have genetics that make them have Alzheimer's disease in their 40s and 50s, alzheimer's disease in their 40s and 50s. Those families generally know they have those genetic risks and it's pretty rare. But what I'm not talking about is really those people. That's kind of a small and separate group. I'm talking about the general population that the most common risk factor for Alzheimer's disease that we can measure in terms of genes is this ApoE gene and when you have the average variant it's called APOE3. And so we just set the general risk of Alzheimer's disease to the prevalence of those people. So that would be that at age 85, about 50% of people are manifesting signs and symptoms of Alzheimer's disease, such as dementia. And so if people have one copy of that accelerator gene, that APOE4 gene, then it moves the prevalence up of 50% of people have Alzheimer's disease in that group by age 80. And if people have two copies of that gene, it's almost universal that they will already have signs of Alzheimer's disease by the time they're 80. So what I highlighted in the book is a story of one lady in particular. But I have had quite a few of these patients who've come to me at almost 90. And when I look at their genetic pattern they're double E4. So they should have been in my clinic almost 10 years earlier with their symptoms.
Speaker 2:And what really motivated me to spread the word of these lifestyle changes is that those people always have a similar description. They always have a lifelong history of exercise. Even for the one lady I highlighted the book, whose name is not Betty but I called her Betty, she you know for her, her generation to be an exerciser. She, she had run marathons. She was still actually walking 5Ks when I met her at 87. You know that was unusual for her generation to be into exercising as a woman.
Speaker 2:But those people always have a lifelong history of exercise. They always tell me they never had much of a sweet tooth. They always have a similar pattern where they were living a brain healthy lifestyle just because it's what they enjoyed doing. So you can beat your genetics If you have even that most concerning risk, which you know. If people are doing the genetic testing you can do at home and sending it in, they might have that knowledge that they have those genetics which are bad, that they have those genetics which are bad, and so it's just more motivation to do something about it. And if you really take that bull by the horns, you can work hard not to pull the trigger on those genetics and it will make a huge difference.
Speaker 1:I love how you mentioned it's a percent and that I really think just in general. So you have to clarify a point right. So if you have a 50% chance of getting something, it's a percent in that I really think, just in general. So I have to clarify a point right. So if you have a 50% chance of getting something, it's a coin flip. You're going to get this heads or tails. You can do things to help mitigate that risk factor. You can knock it down, if you have that gene, to 40% or just keep it at 50%, whereas if you don't do things to mitigate it, you can increase your chances. It doesn't mean you're 100% going to get it, but why take the risk of jumping from 50% to 70% or 80% chance? That's what people fail to comprehend. I see it a lot on my end. It's oh, my whole family has Alzheimer's, I'm going to get it. Or oh, my whole family has type's.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get it. Or, oh, my whole family has type 2 diabetes, I'm going to get it. Yeah, it's easier for you to get it, but you can make it. So you definitely get it by not taking precautions. You have to take precautions and really drop your tension. It doesn't mean to prevent it, it doesn't mean you won't get it, but the chances of you not developing or getting them are a lot lower now.
Speaker 2:But the chances of you not developing or getting them are a lot lower now, yep, and the immediate benefit is you feel great. You have awesome clarity and focus of thought. You know it's not like. You know. If people love like industrially processed sweets, okay, it's going to be a little bit of a challenge when they give those up and move away from that because they're highly addicted to it. Sweetness is addictive. But once you push past that and then your palate turns more into a normal human palate which craves savory, and you have those ultra processed sweets. They're actually just gross and the only thing you really want is like a homemade sweet which you'll have for a birthday or a treat. You know you can still have sweets. We just can't be bombarding our system with the ultra processed sweets all the time. And they really change our palate and they do create an addiction response in the brain.
Speaker 1:So I also like to think you nailed it on the head with savory. By the way, I don't mean to interrupt you to, but, like me, once I pulled away from sweets, like a savory steak, oh yeah, that's. That's all. That's what I crave. I just sit there thinking of a steak at a barbecue, like medium rare seasoned. Anyway, keep going, sorry breakfast too.
Speaker 2:We were recently traveling and the restaurant had a breakfast buffet and I was just looking at the amount of sweets and they just, I mean it just made my stomach turn looking at them. I didn't want any of those sweets. They were, I mean, they were pretty pastries, but I just wanted the savory. Like I just wanted good protein for my body. Like I just didn't want all this empty garbage calories. So, but that's not how I would have been.
Speaker 2:10 years ago I was on the chai latte train at Starbucks two and three times a day. I was so addicted to sugar I was having at least a hundred grams of added sugar a day. So it's not that I've always been like, oh, and this uber healthy person in the wellness space, like I've lived it. I was going down that road, I totally had blinders on and then you know, like most people, when I converted to being healthy, then you know, you turn evangelical. I want everybody to feel as good as I feel. I want everybody to feel as positive as I feel, even with my super strong family history of dementia. I mean, my mom was diagnosed at 69 and both of her parents had dementia and I feel positive about all the things I'm doing, you know, and I'm pushing ahead with everything I can do. So you know, I just I want everybody to feel that empowered and I want everybody to feel as good today as I feel. It's just. I hope it's contagious.
Speaker 1:Do you think high consumptions of sugar are the things that increase your risk of developing Alzheimer's more than anything else? Do you think there's and I'm going to exclude genetics on that one, but besides genetics, is there anything besides high sugars that even comes into context with someone and they're developing Alzheimer's?
Speaker 2:Well, I would say that in every study that's looked at, exercise, physical exercise has been universally that's super positive in preventing brain disease and Alzheimer's disease and so that's always been kind of the biggest intervention. But from what I see, sugar is right behind it and I think that a lot of the exercise literature and data comes from a time when we didn't have the levels of sugar we have now. So I think that if a lot of those studies were being done head to head with with eating a reasonable sugar diet as an intervention, I think that we might see the changing the sugar in our diet as a as a more beneficial intervention, because really when you look 20 years ago the sugar levels weren't even what they are now and a lot of that data is from even like the 80s and 90s and sugar certainly wasn't at the level I mean high fructose corn syrup just came out in 1979, 1980. But it took a while for that to really take over as a particularly harmful addictive sugar not just affecting the brain but the microbiome. I mean you're aware of all those issues.
Speaker 2:So my intervention, even with my dementia patients before I decided to write this book, I mean I was always interested in lifestyle management as the foundation of their treatment, because no little medication is going to outpace lifestyle choices and that's why we see that medications for Alzheimer's don't have much effect. Actually, because none of those studies are done with also being sure that people are living the proper lifestyle for brain health. But one of the things I like to say to people because you know I've been at the spectrum where I'm treating people who already are exhibiting signs of Alzheimer's disease it's like saving for your retirement. So if you start saving a little bit in your 20s, 30s, 40s, you're going to have a massive retirement by the time you and I'm not a financial advisor.
Speaker 2:I'm not giving financial advice, but you always see those calculations right that you're going to have like millions of dollars when you retire if you start when you're 20. If you start when you're 50, you're going to have to save more to have a really nice retirement. If you start when you're 60, you're going to have to save like every penny. And if you start when you're already retired it's almost impossible. So that's why you know if you make little tweaks, the earlier you make them, the bigger dividend they're going to pay.
Speaker 2:If you're in your 40s and 50s, then you need to be more serious about it. And if you're at 60 and you're not aware of what the processed food is doing to your brain, you really got to like you got to flip the switch 100 percent. So that's why I just love people to do it. The earlier the better to start pushing out all this processed food, all the chemicals, the preservatives and the sugar. It's just so full of sugar and it's so full of seed oils, which is another thing I'm super against and I'm happy it's really having a moment and I think probably a lot of your listeners have probably been introduced to just how dangerous seed oils are for our general health and our brain health.
Speaker 1:I'll get the seed oils, but the first kind of question I have would be what about sugar, alcohols or artificial sweeteners?
Speaker 2:So the sugar alcohols and the artificial sweeten are beneficial because they don't give us the that exact connection, like there's a direct chemical connection between sugar and brain disease and it's mediated through insulin and the enzyme that breaks down insulin and so there's a direct damaging connection. So the sugar alcohols because they're not absorbed, and the sugar substitutes because they don't have that direct connection through insulin. They're healthier in that way. But the problem is it's not that we're addicted to the sugar exactly, we're addicted to the sweetness. So it's a sweetness addiction and most of the sugar substitutes have a higher sweetness profile and the sweetness drops off faster. So in terms of trying to break our addiction to sugar, it's really hard to just switch to the sugar substitutes to do it, because you're still going to stay sweetness addicted, your palate is still going to be looking for that hyper palatable, uber sweet response and then in in trying to satisfy your craving for sweetness, you're going to bump into sugar. So I would suggest to people who are trying to break their sweetness addiction that they really try to get away even from the, the synthetic sweetener or the sugar substitutes. I do myself now consume some of those, especially the sugar alcohols. I have a bar that I really like. It has some sugar alcohols in it, but it's because I've already been through the sweetness addiction, so I do have a little bit of that in my system, but I'm not having enough of it that I'm getting back to my sweetness addiction. So for breaking the addiction, I think you have to also not use those, because it's it's really the sweetness and that's what people should understand.
Speaker 2:And then you can add it back in some of your treats if you, if you find that's helpful, but not to the point where you're, you know, having the sweetness with every meal and it's going to be counterproductive. I still have actual sugar for my treats, like I my. My treat of choice is chocolate chip cookies. I absolutely love chocolate chip cookies and so I will still have coconut sugar in my chocolate chip cookies that I make.
Speaker 2:So a little more fiber. I still do have honey and maple syrup as a sweetener here and there. I mean not a lot, but you know I I tend to like those because they also have some other antioxidants that are beneficial. So but that's how. So so if people are, I would encourage people if they're trying to get off of sugar, not to switch for the sweeteners right away to really just go through the toughness of bringing down the sweetness very gradually. Get through it and then you won't need to add that much back in because, as you've noticed, like your palate turns savory, so you just need a very little bit of it.
Speaker 1:I really want a steak right now.
Speaker 2:Pardon me.
Speaker 1:I really want a steak right now. That's all I've been thinking about for the last 18 minutes.
Speaker 2:So it's a great question, because you know it's just like soda for diet soda, and we know that diet soda is just as bad as regular soda, not mediated through the sugar but mediated through the chemicals. So it's, you know, tricking the body is, is is usually not the answer to health. So, um, that's that's how I approach sweeteners and I do talk about that in the book. Um, there's a whole chapter on sugar and trying to break your addiction and, um, the steps to do that gradually and with as little pain as possible. Um, and then how to use the sugar, uh, substitutes, um, and synthetic sweeteners if you're going to use them all.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1:I think the important thing you mentioned was the exercise component of it.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm sure you read the same study I read about eight, nine years ago it came out, I don't even remember anymore, but it was showing the effects that exercise versus brain games has on the prevention of developing any kind of dementia, either Alzheimer's or those kinds of diseases, and they showed that plain old, boring exercise greatly decreases your chances of developing that disease, which was, I think we all knew that.
Speaker 1:But I think the interesting part about it which I do practice when I work out and for those listening to the show definitely know this if you combine the two it has an even greater benefit. Meaning, like I like playing a little game once in a while where we bench press and obviously it's a lightweight okay, it's a weight I can easily do. But you come down and you're holding in an isometric hold and your spotter gives you a multiplication question and you can't push it up until you give the answer. It increases. The rate of that decreased chance of developing Alzheimer's was shown to be something like four times more significant than that of exercise alone, and you just remember things of that specific topic better. So if you are studying for something, they showed the best time to exercise is pre-studying and the second sorry, the second best time is pre-exercise to studying, and the best time is doing it together, which is very interesting. I don't know if you heard the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it that you're doing that. It's a great practice. Some people call it neurobics, like doing things in different ways. I actually had this physical therapist that I loved when she would train my patients because she had them do that, and then these were patients who had already a memory disorder, but she did their personal training in home and she would have them do things like walking up and down, walking up the stairs, um counting backwards by fives. She would have them sing the alphabet backwards, as she was um having them do movements, and I had her come to my clinic one night. We had such a fun little session. I had about six patients and their caregivers. We did this in my waiting room and so she brought like a yoga um you know the ball thing, what's that called?
Speaker 1:It's like a yoga ball, it's the body ball, yoga ball.
Speaker 2:She brought that and so we're sitting. I could hear them giggling out. I wasn't even part of it, it was like I was missing out, and luckily they invited me out to participate. So she had them sitting on the yoga ball and she wanted them to loosen up their spines and get their cerebrospinal fluid moving, and so she had them spelling their name in cursive with their hips on this ball. So you can imagine what that looked like.
Speaker 2:Everybody's kind of like, you know, thrusting around and bouncing around and they're, they're spelling their names, but they're getting loosened up, their spines moving, their CSFs moving. And so what she'd done at the beginning is she had people go around and spell their name forwards and backwards, and one of my patients had misspelled his name backwards and nobody said anything because, you know, people had cognitive impairment we're not trying to highlight that and so they all did this and then they called me out and of course I had to spell my name and I'm, you know, look like I'm kind of. You know it was. It was hilarious actually, um, so we had a good time. So we did that.
Speaker 2:She did some other movement exercise tied in with cognitive exercises at the same time, and then they went around and sure enough he spelled his name correctly backwards. I mean it's very anecdotal, but everybody was pretty impressed and what I? The stability in cognitive function that I saw her get with my patients who had memory disorders was really really impressive. So if people are starting that earlier in life, you know when you're doing that you're making new connections in the brain. But the muscles are releasing myokines, they release those muscle hormones and one of them was kind of erroneously named brain derived growth factor, cause it sounds like it only comes from the brain.
Speaker 2:Okay, the muscles also produce that. So when you're moving the muscles, your muscles are squeezing out this hormone that encourages neuron or brain cell survival and new growth. So what could be a better combination of like pushing out these hormones out of your muscles and then doing exercise? So the brain is sucking up those hormones and going okay, I'm going to make a new synaptic connection right here, because this is the part of my brain that's working, it's the math part. Okay, we're making new synaptic connections or we're fostering the ones that are there. So it's a super powerful intervention.
Speaker 2:And for your listeners that you know they might exercise all the time and it's just great to know, like, oh my goodness, when you're moving, especially big muscles, you're just getting this burst of these healthy hormones from your muscles coming out. But for people who might be sedentary and stuck at a desk all day for work, there's studies also that show that if you get up every half an hour and move for two minutes, you're getting some of those myokines, you're interrupting the sedentariness and that can add up over the day and be as effective as having a one hour workout. So on those days people don't have the time or energy to work out for an hour at least, breaking the sedentary. And I, when I do that, I like to just do squats, just do air squats, because I don't have any equipment in my office. But that at least is I feel like I'm getting the biggest bang for my buck because you're moving your biggest muscle groups. So that's going to be the biggest squish out of those muscle hormones. You can do arm exercises. You're just not going to get the volume of healthy muscle hormones that push out during that time.
Speaker 2:So you know, fighting the sedentary is another great mindset. Like it's one thing to make time to work out, and sometimes people feel like they can't make time to work out, although I would challenge them that I could find time in their day for them to work out for sure, because I'm really good at nagging people and finding minutes here and there. But just at least think about breaking the sedentary and then just like, get some little pumping out of those muscle hormones. They're just amazing for brain health. And if you want to do your squats, actually I'm going to encourage that, incorporate that. I haven't been doing that, but I'm actually going to do either some like alphabet backwards, some math I'm going to do? I'm going to add something to my squats. I actually haven't been doing that, so you are encouraging me. I love that.
Speaker 1:I love it. You're going to be sweating. While you're doing, your brain's going to try to create this new snap. What is this going on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I also like my husband and I walk the dog in our neighborhood and like if I'm walking in my neighborhood I'll do squats at every corner. That's kind of a little thing I like to do just to remind myself to do more calisthenics. And at first I was like, oh, what if people see me doing squats? Like what a weirdo. And then I was like, okay, first of all I'm in my fifties, I don't care so much about what other people think anymore. But then the other part I was like, oh, and what could happen? I could inspire them to be doing habit, cause I look like a goof and I don't care Like maybe they will too. So, um, you know, I think don't be embarrassed to do that in your workspace, cause the the worst thing that could happen is people start doing what you're doing Cause they're not embarrassed anymore.
Speaker 1:No, I couldn't agree more, and the only other topic I know for sure is directly related. And then, after this, I want you to add things. That I missed is sleep. I personally know that that's when you're in deep REM sleep your brain flushes out the plaque buildup that has been linked to Alzheimer's.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:If you're not hitting that deep REM sleep, you got a whole ball of issues coming up. So I want you to talk a little bit about sleep, how it's related, and kind of fill in the gaps and things like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's a great question, you're correct. So, so REM, so sleep. There's four stages. So there's there's one, two, three and then REM, and so you do get a cleaning mechanism. And a lot of that actually happens in stage three, which is deep sleep that you get most of in the in the first half of the night, and we get more of our REM in the second half of the night.
Speaker 2:Both of them are really good for memory consolidation, but we think that in stage three, um, we get more shrinkage of our brain cells. Um, it's temporary, they get a little dehydrated, and then what happens is the area around the brain cells, the cerebrospinal fluid. That area expands. So you get an osmosis of the toxins out of the brain cells that were deposited during the day. And, as you mentioned, one of those is amyloid, which is one of the proteins that we see building up in Alzheimer's disease. And there's some controversy about amyloid. Okay, is it the primary cause or is it a bystander that indicates another underlying process? It kind of doesn't matter. It's a marker for Alzheimer's disease. So if we're getting rid of amyloid, that's helpful because we're getting rid of either whatever toxin pulled it in in the first place, or if we think it's the primary driver, which most people don't think anymore, we're getting rid of it.
Speaker 1:It's a causation correlation.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yes. Yes, it's probably more of a correlation. It's probably a bystander. It's probably that we're trying to wall off an insult, a virus, a heavy metal, and that's where the amyloid is trying to protect the brain, but then it becomes dysfunctional and damaging. So that happens mostly during deep sleep actually get the most stage three.
Speaker 2:So one of the most encouraging things, I think, is I wear a little ring to monitor my sleep and I am a person who has always woken up at like two or three in the morning and started worrying, and so I was super concerned that I wasn't getting enough sleep to clean my brain and, of course, like I'm obsessed with brain health, that I wasn't getting enough sleep to clean my brain and, of course, like I'm obsessed with brain health, and when I started wearing the ring, it was actually really calming for me. So we get most of our deep sleep in the first half of the night and I found that even before that 2 am awakening, I was actually getting adequate deep sleep to clean my brain, so that was reassuring. And then that REM sleep is in the second half and that REM sleep is more able to be interrupted. So once you have your 2 or 3 am awakening, which isa common pattern? I know I'm talking to a lot of you out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the good news is that you can get a bunch of bursts of REM even between awakenings, so you can get a really balanced night of sleep, a really effective night of sleep, even if you have awakenings that we have in midlife and beyond. But it is critical to get that deep sleep. I talk a lot about sleep hygiene in the book and all the natural things you can cue your brain to get good sleep, to fall asleep, to stay asleep. I'm also a fan of not fighting that 2 or 3 am awakening. I do a little bit of meditation One of the things about looking at my sleep when I realized that I was getting adequate sleep even though I was getting up for 45 minutes, sometimes an hour, to worry in bed.
Speaker 2:Getting up for 45 minutes, sometimes an hour, to worry in bed is now. I just take that quiet time in the world to meditate. I'm faithful, so I pray sometimes during that time, but also I sometimes get the most clear answers to the questions of my day from the day before, and so now I appreciate that clarity, that the world's quiet. I stay in bed. I don't overly worry anymore. I actually have some really purposeful thought and then meditation and prayer and then I usually drift back off and have some REM sessions. So trying to reframe those nighttimes awakenings if you have them can really make a difference rather than beating yourself up and being mad at yourself that you're up, which is what I used to do. I used to get super stressed that I was awake and now I've just turned it into something really powerful and purposeful. So I don't know if that's helpful.
Speaker 1:No, totally. I love that I am at 2, am up Between 2 and 4, I'm usually awake.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say call me, am up between two and four, I'm usually awake. Yeah, I would say call me, we'll chat, but we're in different time zones. So no, I'm, I'm doing my like, I'm solving actual problems. I used to like just worry and I'd get into like nuclear war and I just get super whacked out. Um, because I was so stressed about being up. And now it's just like sometimes these answers come to me. I go, I cannot believe. When I was working on that yesterday, I, I didn't come up with that idea Like that's, that's the best idea.
Speaker 1:I wish that was mine, mine's. I wake up in pain, so I just spend two hours stretching to try to knock myself back out.
Speaker 2:But you're turning it into purpose, like you're turning it into stretching, and doing something healthy for your body. Um, instead of being mad at yourself for being up and being in pain, you know I'm still mad at myself.
Speaker 1:Don't get me wrong. Eventually I'll come to that calming point and I'm like all right, I'm fine with waking up at this time, but it's, it's consistent Wake up bladder rings go to the bathroom. Can't fall back asleep for an hour. Stay an hour and a half, sometimes stretching Whatever.
Speaker 2:That's my issue, not everyone else's, and then it's going to be hard because you're going to be getting up with little ones soon.
Speaker 1:Talk about no REM sleep and no stage three. It's going to be cranky. I want to ask is there any other risk factors that you noticed, besides the ones that we've talked about already?
Speaker 2:Well, smoking is a big one and I so I think that that's. I mean, I feel like that's kind of a known health problem in general. I'm not sure it deserves that much more discussion. It's it's basically for the same reason that it's high risk factor for heart disease. It's. It's just, you know it's it's driving atherosclerosis and inflammation in the arteries and those feed the brain and they cloud off and and in the Alzheimer's brain we always see atherosclerosis on autopsies. So that's, that's an important one, but I don't think it's that big of a one because it's more like 13% of people smoke now.
Speaker 1:So I guess the question would be then do you see a clearing of plaque in the brain if someone ceases smoking, and if so, how long does it take?
Speaker 2:So so what we're looking more for, and that is remodeling of the vessels and a decrease in atherosclerosis. It's really driven by the hardening and narrowing of the arteries that start causing those tiny strokes that don't even cause symptoms, but they become cumulative and then they start to interrupt the neural networks in the brain. So that's just, that's just has to be done. I mean, there's just no room for smoking of any amount. I think it's helpful that now there are so many other nicotine options for people to try to help with that. And and of course, we have nicotinic receptors in the brain and they there are a lot of healthy processes that those, those receptors drive. In fact, one of our medicines for Alzheimer's disease, we choose it specifically because it has uh, it hits the nicotinic receptor, so it can be great for focus and um, I'm talking like, specifically like nicotine gum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like nicotine gums and the little packets that people are using Um they don't have the same cognitive effects doing that because they're, because there's, they're blocking the um. They don't hit that atherosclerosis path, they don't harden the arteries so you can get the nicotinic stimulation without getting you know all those negative side effects that come from hot embers and carcinogens that are going right into our lungs.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I'm trying to think of anything else that's in there. I mean general health, I think is the hugest one that's overlooked. You know, treating thyroid, being sure we don't have diabetes, looking for really early signs for diabetes, not waiting until the sugar's high and the hemoglobin A1C is up, but looking for our sensitivity to insulin. Those tests can be done. That's a big one. Liver health, kidney health. What about sunlight?
Speaker 2:Sunlight is super important, so sunlight's really important for setting our circadian rhythm or cultivating a healthy circadian rhythm. But it also triggers a lot of anti-inflammatory and pro-immunity responses in our system. Obviously, vitamin D, we know, but it helps our bodies generate melatonin and we usually think mostly melatonin related to sleep. But only 5% of the melatonin in our bodies is in the brain and associated with sleep. The rest of it is in our cells and it's helpful in the mitochondrial cascade of making energy. So sunlight actually helps our cells make melatonin and it's really important. It's a great anti-inflammatory compound and, as you know, inflammation is at the key of all. Is it the really the nidus of all chronic disease, and Alzheimer's is no exception. So the more anti-inflammatory compounds that we can generate naturally in our body, the better.
Speaker 2:And then you can add on top of that different supplements and different other ways to address inflammation, try to dampen it down. But of course our body is the best source of antioxidants and anti-inflammatory compounds if we can just treat it right and really curate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have two final questions, not related to the last two questions, but just two specific thought processes. One would be a supplement. I think that's the quickest way to start. I know there's a lot of research out about Ginkgo, especially when it comes to brain health and cognitive decline. Any information that you could pass on for that or any other supplements that you personally recommend someone should experience in cognitive decline.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think the supplement that I mean ginkgos, have a lot of study behind it. There are a lot of adaptogens that have been around in ancient medicine, you know, for millennia, and so I think that that you know those natural compounds that we're embracing. Ginkgo, ashwagandha, I think lion's mane is really also quite compelling, and the literature on lion's mane and concussion is really impressive. So I like those three. I also think that creatine is a great multipurpose supplement with your thumbs up, because it's, you know, it's great for muscle, it's great for brain, it really has no side effects. I mean, it's one of the like best tolerated compounds that I've ever Can I just say something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this has been my kick for the last six months. Every human being needs to take creatine.
Speaker 2:I just don't see a downside. I you know I don't, so there's none, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, this is hilarious. So my son was the first one in our family to get into creatine, because he's kind of into. He's into fitness, Our whole family's into fitness, but he's like into kind of building a bit, and so he got this huge, massive like bucket of creatine that's in our um, that's in our pantry. It's really a thing. But now everybody's like thankful that he got this massive thing because everybody's into it and you really, I do think, have to use a powder to get the volume that you need. I mean, to take it in a capsule form. I think is not that realistic. It's so many capsules, unless you really don't mind swallowing them. But, um, I think that the powdered creatine is the way to go and it's the most cost-effective, but I think that's one, that's Creatine monohydrate.
Speaker 1:I just want to clarify. Yeah, sorry, yes.
Speaker 2:I think that's a no brainer. I'm also I'll throw it out there I'm a huge fan of iodine, but that's quite controversial and needs to really be managed by a doctor, that first. That really needs. You know any, any supplement you need to to look at with your health healthcare provider, but that one especially, cause there's some unique, you know, lab tests that need to be ruled out first. But but creatine I would say is, is. I think that's probably the the biggest gun in our armamentarium of of driving health in general.
Speaker 1:I just want to specify you're a neurologist specializing dementia talking about the benefits of creatine for brain health. Now I don't want to hear from my clients anymore that I'm just saying that because I'm 34 and I work out.
Speaker 2:I mean you guys Google it on, Google it and then go to all the links that are on PubMed. I mean there's, there's tons of studies. So, yeah, it's not, it's not woo-woo, it's, it's the physiology, the pathophysiology is completely understood and and the data is behind it. So, but do talk to your healthcare practitioner first, because you always have to with any supplement. But it's kind of funny, Like you know, we can go out and like look at this, all this advertising on TV. That's just, you know this, like hyper-processed industrial food, Eat all these, you know, seed oils, it's heart healthy and eat all these grains for breakfast and like that's fine, you don't need to talk to your doctor about that. But then if you're like, oh, don't use seed oils. They're like, oh, take this healthy compound that's naturally occurring. It's like, oh, you have to talk to your doctor. So it's really interesting how we have kind of things upside down, Like, if you want to do industrial, like food made in a lab, we don't need to check that out.
Speaker 1:My favorite part is I know this is totally a side topic, but when we start training people who are like 50, 60, 70 years old and they do their first ever weight training session, naturally the creatinine level spike. So because creatine is naturally producing the body. For those that don't know that, and then those that get blood work within the first week after starting an exercise program, they show they're in a blood work, that the creatinine levels are super high. So their advice from their doctor is to stop working out, it's yeah.
Speaker 1:And then they come in and cancel their memberships and I have to sit here and be like they're only high. Did you mention? Started a weight lifting routine and the doctor's like no workouts for four weeks to make sure that that's what's causing it Like. What are the odds that something else is like the creatinine? It started a week ago. What's causing it like? What are the odds that something else sparks the creatinine? It started a week ago. It's clearly high. Let them work out for four more weeks and then watch it level off super hydrated, you know yeah it's just a pet peeve yeah, it's, it's, it's wild
Speaker 1:way over on time, but I want to. I can't miss this topic because I think, out of everything, this is, especially in our society now, one of the most prevalent causes and I think by the time that I hit 60s, 70s, it's going to be the number one reason people experience cognitive decline and dementia and that's mental health and you see that with depression right now how it's skyrocketing through especially people my age and I know for a fact depression is directly linked to, yet again, causation correlation. I'm not sure, but I can tell you it is a risk factor for experience in dementia, especially with Alzheimer's.
Speaker 1:And I want you to address that specifically because I know this is the next big cause. Kind of like smoking was 10, 15 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so dementia in midlife is a risk factor. I mean sorry, depression in midlife I don't know if I said that right is a risk factor for dementia. So it's really important to treat mental health and I think where you know, I think a lot of the medical approaches where we're really falling short is that we're just looking to medications to treat all these disorders and we're not also doing the foundation work which is exercise. Exercise alleviates or helps alleviate depression, eating right helps alleviate depression. I mean it has to be a holistic, multi-pronged approach to alleviate things like this. And then the net benefit is all of those lifestyle interventions are also going to help protect brain health going forward. So you're getting the double benefit of treating depression now and also, you know, alleviating that risk factor, and then you know these other healthy ways to drive brain health.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, mental health is a huge issue. It's it's intimately tied to dementia risk and it has to be addressed and it needs to be addressed from multiple angles. I mean my opinion, besides the myokines, which are fantastic, but I mean physical health is really for mental health. In my opinion, it's great that your muscles get stronger and you know you feel better and more flexible and things, but it's really the most important thing for mental health actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you think just specifically specifically? Do you think it's correlation? You think it's a causation of it? Because I get stuck? I know the difference, but I'll just explain why I get stuck right.
Speaker 1:So if you look at depression, depression, if someone gets upset about something, what do they tend to do? They tend to stay in the dark, so they're not going outside. They're not getting sunlight, so they're not getting the proper vitamin D3. On top of that, they end up either spending hours scrolling their phone or obsessing over thoughts, so they're not creating new synapses of their brain. On top of that, it always affects sleep quality. So, like you mentioned before, they're not experiencing that stage three or stage three sleep because they aren't. They're so depressed that it's affecting their overall life. On top of that, they always go grab unhealthy foods. You don't see someone depressed grabbing carrots. They're going to grab ultra processed foods and super things, things high in sugar and that all kind of adds together. So is there anything you have that can like help specify? Like, what do you think? Do you think it's just correlated or you think it's a causing cognitive decline?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a stew of interconnected health problems and so I don't know that you can pull it all apart. But I think the everything you just talked about points out why it's a multi-pronged approach it has. Everything has to be addressed, addressed. Sometimes you find the string that starts to unwind the whole thing and sometimes one of those factors is predominant, but it really needs to be addressed. Everything needs to be addressed and I don't see that happening in medicine in general.
Speaker 2:In a 15 minute appointment it's pretty much time to hear how you're feeling and write a new prescription for medicine. It's not really time to counsel on sleeping and nutrition, and I don't see that a lot of people who are being treated for depression are being sent to a nutritionist, you know. So it's just not being addressed. We're throwing medications at things, and that's kind of our approach to everything right now.
Speaker 2:And when I think about the lifestyle interventions, you know it's kind of similar to obesity. Obesity is a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease, but that's just a surrogate marker. It's a correlation, because obesity is the result of insulin resistance. So too much sugar, not enough exercise. It's just a surrogate for, like, all of the same things that we're talking about in depression and of course, obesity and depression go together Like they're just all linked, it's all lifestyle and you know we may. I would say 20 years ago, right when I got out of medical school, I was like, oh, dementia is going to, Alzheimer's is going to be treated during my career. Multiple sclerosis will probably be treated during my career.
Speaker 2:I mean maybe maybe pharma is going to come up with an answer for Alzheimer's disease. That's a cure.
Speaker 2:We're nowhere near that now nowhere near it at all and I used to really think that's what you know I wasn't that worried about it like oh, when I get there there'll be some drug. And now I'm realizing, like do I really just want to wait for an answer from pharma because I don't think it's going to address all the things that need to be addressed. So in the meantime I'm doing everything I can to prevent it and maybe that's enough and that's great. And maybe they come up with something that, on top of all my lifestyle choices that I've made for all these years to fight my genetics, you know, maybe there'll be the little like cherry on top that's their drug. But I think that just thinking that we can find a drug that cures any of these disorders without massive lifestyle changes, or just the realization of what we're putting in our bodies, is making us so sick. Without clearing that out, I just don't see any of it being as effective as we would expect it to be.
Speaker 1:That's my soapbox.
Speaker 1:No, I love that answer. The only thing I would add is people have to understand that Big Pharma is a company and they need to make money. Right, have to understand that big pharma is a company and they need to make money Very expensive to create a drug. But those that don't understand it costs anywhere upwards, I think, between 10 to $50 million to get one good drug, because of the amount of time and money they have to push through clinical trials and it takes years to pass all these clinical trials to push a drug out into market. So pharma is as much as they want to help people.
Speaker 1:I think to an extent they are also looking at what's my return on investment for this drug, like, if I do create this drug and I push it out, how much money am I going to make off of it? And it's just good to understand a combination of bolts. So when you sit there hoping for an answer from pharma, I don't think they're necessarily going to have it, and even my lifetime, I think they're going to be looking for other routes of how they can make. Like, make sure that they don't go out of business, because ultimately they ought to. They are a business.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean, I think that, yeah. So it's just that I just don't think that you can imagine that you can sit on the couch all day looking at your phone, not exercising, eating garbage. That was not. Our bodies are not made to eat a lot of the things we're eating, because food has evolved. The food industry has evolved way quicker than our bodies could possibly do, so it's not realistic to think that you could just sit around doing nothing for your body and then there's going to be a pill that fixes all those processes. So we've got to get our bodies healthy ourselves, and then drugs may help, but they can't possibly outpace the things we're doing to ourselves. That's the problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally agree. All right, I'm going to answer the final two questions. I asked everybody just to wrap this up, which is the first question If you were to summarize this episode in one or two sentences, what would be your take home message?
Speaker 2:My take home message is that you can do so much to determine whether or not you're going to have Alzheimer's disease later, and I want to empower you to do that, and then I can tell you how to do it. My book is Brain Health Action Plan. It's on Amazon and then online, also at Barnes and Noble and walmartcom, and the audio book should be out soon for people who like to listen to that. And then my website is brainhealthactionplancom. And if you go there and you do slash bonus, there's a little thing about like cold plunge and some bonus content that's not in the book.
Speaker 1:So I love it. Thank you for beating me to the punch. The second question no, I definitely agree. You've been absolutely amazing. I think my guests know I usually cut these shows around 30 minutes and we're already in the 50 mark. Oh gosh, if you made it this far, I think it's super important. I appreciated the conversation a lot. I think it's something well needed, which is why I'm totally okay going as long as we did, because this is going to be a bigger issue as we move forward in society. So, dr Taryn Clark, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, guys for listening to this week's episode of Health and Fitness Redefined. Don't forget, please hit that subscribe button. Enjoy this next week as we dive deeper into this ever-changing field and remember fitness is medicine. Until next time, thank you, outro Music.
