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Health & Fitness Redefined
Health and Fitness Redefined with Anthony Amen. Take a dive into the health world as we learn how to overcome adversity, depict fact vs fiction and see health & fitness in a whole new light.Fitness Is Medicine
Health & Fitness Redefined
The Co-Founder of TriggerPoint to the Science of Movement Assessment
Movement serves as a vital sign for overall health, often overlooked in traditional fitness paradigms. Andrew, our guest, shares his journey from various professional realms to fitness technology, emphasizing the importance of quick, efficient movement screenings for injury prevention and enhanced physical performance.
• The significance of movement in overall well-being
• Exploring Andrew's career journey into the fitness tech space
• Benefits of rapid movement screenings over traditional methods
• The interplay between mobility and stability across different fitness populations
• The role of technology in personal health tracking and assessments
• Movement screenings improve training efficacy and health outcomes
• Need for a holistic approach in fitness—combining strength, mobility, and movement analysis
Learn More at: www.Redefine-Fitness.com
Hello and welcome to Health and Fitness Redefined. I'm your host, anthony. Amen and today, another great episode for all of you. Hopefully by the time this show comes out it's not 15 degrees out That'd be wonderful and hopefully it starts warming up. But without further ado, let's welcome to the show, andrew. Andrew, it's a pleasure to have you on today.
Speaker 2:Thanks, anthony, great to be here to the show.
Speaker 1:Andrew. Andrew, it's a pleasure to have you on today. Thanks, anthony, great to be here. Yeah, man, I'm excited to do this. I'm really excited about this topic because I think it's so interesting. I have had deep dive conversations with people at my gym about tracking and all that fun stuff and what it really means, and all that and everything but. But they're not going to spoil anything, so, without further ado, just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into the health and fitness world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll start from the beginning. I was born in South Africa, notwithstanding my accent, moved to Dallas when I was eight and kids made fun of me for the way I spoke. So I changed that quickly. Did my undergrad up at Brown, played tennis there I wouldn't have got in based on academics so good thing I could hit a tennis there. I wouldn't have got in based on on academics so good thing I could hit a tennis ball. And um, did the law school MBA, but I'm technically a lawyer. I've never practiced um investment banking up in New York.
Speaker 2:And uh, when I was 30, I decided that, you know, I was young, naive and arrogant guy that figured I could start a company and just make it big and did that and got just my ass kicked but learned, learned a lot of lessons. Unfortunately, it took me nine years. You know. One of those lessons was just, you got to do something that you have passion about. So I was. I saw a business opportunity, working in college, health centers, doing insurance billing and software, and I mean that was awful. It just it wasn't exciting to go to work. It wasn't exciting dealing with government entities either. And then, right after that, I was on the board of TriggerPoint and ended up becoming CEO, which, if people don't know and they may recognize the orange foam roller, and that was really my introduction into fitness. I was lucky to meet a lot of people from TRX while at TriggerPoint, uh, from TRX while at trigger point, and, you know, fast forward a few years.
Speaker 2:Uh, someone I used to work with at trigger point gave me a movement assessment and it was great. They had a bunch of movements, gave me a score, told me where I'm having movement issues and gave me a program to try and move better. And I mean, and my, you know, my injuries are, are, are, are bad, um, and they're all on the same side because I'm very asymmetric, which is the second leading cause of injury, uh, behind previous injury. So tons of, uh, tons of injuries. Movement assessment was interesting. The problem was thing took 15 minutes. Um, I needed someone there to guide me through it, so I never did it again, and so I thought, hey, this is a great concept. We need to, we need to learn, um, you know how to move better and you can't manage your movement if you can't measure it. And so the idea was let's create a screen that's quick it's 30 seconds, you can self-assess and that way you can get super high throughput and and measure frequently.
Speaker 1:So uh, that covers uh 51 years in about 90 seconds that was really good thanks, man I feel like there's a lot of gray in between, but we got there. I want to talk about being on the board of trigger point because I think that's freaking awesome and a lot of people probably don't even know what it is, but I think it's important to talk about and my official release in and of itself, I feel like, is just now becoming more mainstream. Like you don't really, we introduce people to it every day and they kind of look at us and blink and they're like what is this? And you're like, yeah, this is called TriggerPoint, stealing it right off of that. So tell us a little bit about that company in particular, what it was like working on that board and then what the main objective of being a part of TriggerPoint was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I met the founder, cassie Phillips. I used to do Ironman stuff and I met him at an expo before a race and he was doing a hell of a job just trying to build it out of, you know, out of his van and go into events and and was manufacturing out of Atlanta. And I'm like dude, that's, that's not going to work because it's really expensive in Atlanta versus where everyone else is manufacturing. So he just needed to raise a little bit of money, helped him do that and joined the board with a gentleman named Hank. Coleman was on and Hank and I or Hank's now working with me at Fizmodo, which is super cool. Hank's now working with me at uh at Fizmodo, which is, which is super cool, and uh and so yeah.
Speaker 2:So then once uh, uh trigger point got to a certain stage and I was where I was in my career, cassidy stepped aside as CEO and I came in to run the company um, which which was awesome. Uh, it was a great experience, unlike my, my college health billing, software, nonsense just something I loved I had a lot of passion for, and so, unfortunately, in less than a year, cassidy wanted to be CEO again, so I got fired, but it was a lot of fun, met some great people and yeah, it was so new back then. I mean, movement was like what the hell? And then you know that was before. You know your, you know hype, the hypervolts and and, and there are guns of the world and you know the world, the world self massage has just gotten huge. But I really do think trigger point was at the forefront and it's not to to my credit, it's to Cassidy's yeah, I definitely think it's gotten more and more predominant.
Speaker 1:People are realizing how important it is, people even realizing what fascia is. Do you want explaining? The fascia is because trainers bomb this question, so at least ones that don't have jobs with us.
Speaker 2:I didn't say like so, just just just because I run a technology company, now you can't ask me any technical questions and I should. Just because I ran trigger point, you can't ask me fascia questions. No, I mean, it's just stuff like running under the, the, the, the skin. That's, um, you know, uh, how do I best give the give the best analogy? Um, I don't really know a good analogy, but it's all tangled up in a web and it needs to get right yeah, yeah, we should.
Speaker 2:We need to go back, and next time we do this you need to give me the questions. Um, you're gonna ask so I don't look like a idiot when I answer them or can't answer them. I should say in this case fascia, all really is.
Speaker 1:It connects lower muscles together in a white filmy substance, so it makes everything move as one and sometimes it gets locked up and stuck. So myofascial release using something like trigger point or using something like cross ball, golf ball and holding pressure on a dairy. That pressure, the brain will release oxytocin which will hit that fascia and then send a release hormone to it, usually after like 20 seconds, which is why you roll, find a spot, hold it and then go to the next one.
Speaker 2:The only thing I can tell you is do not roll your lower back.
Speaker 1:That's true At least on the spot.
Speaker 2:That's all I can add.
Speaker 1:You picked the wrong guest. You thought that wasn't even your company, so we're fine. I want to talk about um movement screenings anyway, which is the next logical step. That's what you're doing now. So you have an app just from what I quickly understood where it can monitor a functional movement screening so it can see how your body moves in motion and kind of give you an idea of what's under overactive. Is that correct? If you talk about that a little more yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:So you know, our goal here was and there are a lot of great movement screens out there some of the limitations that that we saw were let's start with this, it's taking too long. So think about this you have all these wearables now, so your whoops or Apple Fitness, whatever it may be, and you wake up and you have your HRV or your oxidation or whatever it may be. So just think about this. Imagine that you only screened your sleep and your HRV, and all that once every few months. That information would be completely worthless because there's so many variables. I mean, if you've been on a plane all day, you probably are going to sleep a little differently. You're moving time zones. You had a good workout, you didn't do anything, whatever it may be, so it's great. You can wake up and you can get your biometrics every single day, so you kind of know what your baseline is.
Speaker 2:The problem with movement is there are also a lot of variables dictating how you're moving from day to day. Again, if you're sitting in a car all day, if you had a huge deadlift day to day before, how you slept the day before, so to measure movement once every few months, I mean, what good, does that really do? And so the goal was let's do a movement screen. Yeah, you can't wake up and figure out how your, your body moves, but a 30 second screen you can self assess and do it anywhere. And that way we're getting like we tell people get three to five assessments over the first couple weeks.
Speaker 2:Let's find your baseline and so you know you can, you can, you can go from there and get some real information. Because if I'm getting, let's call it a 55, and I one day have a 45, I mean something's going on right there. But at least I have a good baseline to go from. And you have to have that quick screen. So we just have you do three overhead squats, we measure. You get a composite score based on your mobility, your stability, your posture and your symmetry. We'll give you indicators to show where you're having some movement issues and a corrective uh program to try and address them you know, my first question is going to be why the overhead squat?
Speaker 2:uh, well, first of all, we wanted to only stick with one movement because I think once you get into more, it just becomes more difficult to self-assess and you're not going to get the throughput and repeatability that you'd want. The overhead squat's a part of every single assessment. That's that's out there. There's also data that shows that the overhead your score on the overhead squat is a is a great predictor of your overall functional movement screen score. Um, you know, and then you're getting. You know, closed chain, lower body, open chain, upper body. It's. It's a difficult movement.
Speaker 2:So we're able to get so much information that I think it's plenty of information to get to be able to do something with. Are we getting absolutely everything? No, not at all. But I'd say we're getting 75, 80% of what you need. You need and you kind of look at some of these other screens out there that have a ton of different movements. I don't see them as competition. So let's take whatever screen it is. That's 15 minutes. Take the functional movement screen. That takes about 15 minutes for your average practitioner. Does somebody need to be that's getting a great score on us? Need to do an FMS? No, but if you're getting someone that is getting a terrible score on their PhysMoto screen. Yeah, maybe we should be a feeder into somebody like an FMS and, you know, let's take a deeper dive into what that person's doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. It's one of my favorite movements. I was just curious why on your end? And then I'm assuming the three squats are just three different angles, correct?
Speaker 2:No, you assume incorrectly.
Speaker 1:No, it's all forward.
Speaker 2:So I said I know nothing about technology. I know a little bit, so I'm going to get a little bit technical here. So there's, let's just take an iPhone. You have two cameras one on the front, one in the back. The one in the back is a lidar, it's 3d, um, the one on the front is 2d, it's a color camera. It's only capturing frontal plane.
Speaker 2:Uh, the problem is if you're using the 3d camera, if you're using the 3D camera, you can't see the actual screen of the iPhone. That's going to make it very difficult to self-assess if you can't see the screen. So we had to figure out a way to use that front camera and make it effectively a 3D camera, and so we used inverse kinematics basically a fancy way of saying an algorithm, and we were able to get the same accuracy using that front camera as we would if you're getting using lidar and got a nice little patent on that, and so that's why we're able to achieve the ability to self-assess and have the accuracy that we do yeah, you lost me at 3d, but this is okay.
Speaker 2:The tech side is like okay, I'm gonna untack it for you all, right. So, xbox, right, okay, games on the xbox, a baseball game on the xbox, whatever it is, you, you're, you're, you're, you're having to throw something, I don't care what sport it is. On a video game using the Xbox, there's a. There's a camera, that which Microsoft is called the Microsoft connects cameras. They've subsequently discontinued it, but that camera looks at your body and can tell where your joints are, and so, in a game where you're throwing a baseball or hitting a tennis ball or doing dance moves or whatever it's recognizing your, the camera can recognize your wrist, your elbow and your shoulder and it can kind of estimate. You know what you're doing with that, and hence that's how the video game happens. Well, phones can do that now, which is kind of cool, yeah, but that fancy 3D camera that can capture everything is better than just a 2D camera, and we've made oversimplifying, we've made a 2D camera a 3D camera, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't do it, Our engineers did. But yeah, it is pretty cool.
Speaker 1:No, but I like the idea. And then just in terms, I know you were talking about measuring certain things like heart rate and blood, ox levels, rem sleep, all that fun stuff. Why is measuring movement frequently important?
Speaker 2:Well, in almost everything I say, say I steal from Chris Frankel, who's one of the smartest guys, um, however, so, so when you hear me talk about this front camera, back camera stuff and don't understand what I'm saying, that's me listening to Chris Frankel. But he did um, he was chief sports scientist at, at TRX and and now at at Beaver fit one, definitely one of the smartest guys I've ever met. And he said look and this was 10 years ago movement is the forgotten component of fitness. Because we look at all these other, you know, measurements like how much can you lift and how fast can you run and so forth, but it doesn't matter if you can't move, none of that shit matters, right, but kind of to your question about all these things that we're measuring on the biometric side, so you know, whether it's HRV or blood pressure or cholesterol, we're trying to get measurements so that we can intervene if the, if the numbers are bad. But you know, in addition to movement being the forgotten component of fitness, and we like to say that movement is a vital sign. If you look at longevity I mean there's a lot of discussion on that right now and take rapamycin or do this or do that, or you know, um, and if you can't move, uh, things aren't going to work out too well, and so we want to be able to say, look, yeah, well, don't get me going on cholesterol. I have feelings about that and the uselessness of a basic lipid panel.
Speaker 2:But I mean we're, we're, we're paying attention to all these other things, but we're not measuring movement. I mean we're paying attention to all these other things, but we're not measuring movement. I mean the number one and we used to have this as a slide on our sales deck or investor deck which is the percentage of Americans reporting the following chronic conditions and 31% was circulatory, 28% was respiratory, 13% was diabetic, but this was 2012. So that 13% is now probably like 65%, sadly, but musculoskeletal was 54%. I mean there's 750 million lost work days or something due to back injuries. I don't know how people come up with these stats, but even if it's anywhere close to that, that's absurd. We're doing all this work, measuring this other shit, and yet we're not measuring movement, which is one of the biggest issues, if not the biggest issues, for our health, and that just doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1:I mean, I 100% agree with you. You're literally talking about our business model, so you're right in our realm. As far as what we're doing at the gym and I I think it's important to stress the importance. When you go to your typical gym or whatever, a lot of people want to focus on running really fast, lifting really heavy, and they just say I'm just going to go and just do whatever and throw myself around, whereas the difference with us and you're not going to get anywhere else is the movement pattern of, like you said, how is your body moving? How is your body working? How can we make your body move more efficiently?
Speaker 1:It's not so much about running a mile in six minutes when it's more about hey, you've had that shoulder pain for two years. We're going to do some myofascial release techniques, show you some stretching and show you some dynamic movements and some exercises to help that shoulder feel better, and then all of a sudden, that pain disappears. So now you start feeling better and your shoulder no longer hurts. Therefore, you incorporate more exercise in your life and you're, overall, happier.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, couldn't agree more yeah, and and here's the deal is also, if you know personal training, whether it, whether it's, is it? I haven't done it in a long time Do they cut you off at 50 minutes or do you get like a full hour? But?
Speaker 2:whatever it is good for you guys. It's the big, the differentiator. I know it's critical for you as a trainer to understand how they're moving, because that may dictate you know how that session is going to be. You may have a program planned for the day, but you know that person again variables something may. You know they've been sitting at a desk all day long or whatever the case. You kind of want to know how they're moving.
Speaker 2:But your client's probably not going to want you to take 10 minutes to figure out how their movement's going, because now they're down to 50 minutes or in many cases 40 minutes, right, they want to get into it. But if you can take 30 seconds and see how they're moving and say you know what? We had heavy deadlifts today or kettlebell swings or whatever it may be, but your hip mobility is down big time today and I don't know why. But let's maybe do a little bit more work and get that moving a little better. And you know 30 seconds, we can rescreen after a couple minutes of some correctives. Or you know what we're going to scale this workout or we're going to do something different. I just don't understand how you can go blindly into training someone without knowing how they're moving that day and I get it, it's, it's. It's nothing against the trainers, but again, what client wants to spend 10, 15 minutes of their session going through how they're moving?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's your typical trainer and this is what differentiates us, which is why we know what we call personal trainers, we call specialists. But what this relies into is you need to be good enough. You need to have a good understanding of biomechanics and how the body works. You put someone everyone's gonna have to warm up right. You need to do some kind of dynamic warm-up and we can analyze your movement screening through that dynamic warmup to tell hips tight, ankles tight. This is we need to work on this, we need to loosen this up. So just watching that dynamic warmup gives us the insight of okay, we need to change up and do this.
Speaker 1:I have when I used to train. It was all the times we're squatting right, we're doing just bodyweight squats, and I noticed this tiny shift of weight into your right side. You're now throwing your hip off to your right side and pushing yourself up and that tiny shift. Nine and a half out of ten trainers won't pick up. They just go yeah, we're gonna load it. You don't want to load something if it's not moving in the right movement patterns, because you're just gonna get hurt, end up asymmetric, like yourself, and then get hurt even more. So let's figure out why you're hip shifting off to the right and then let's do some release techniques. Maybe we have your performance is super locking up on you and then we'll reanalyze, hop back into that squat and redo it if, or change the program level together, depending on what it is yeah, so um, uh, didn't didn't mean to like to to suggest anything other than um, with respect to how you guys are training, because there are very different levels.
Speaker 2:But our industry is crazy.
Speaker 1:You have people we do so many interviews of people we have to reject that have been trainers for years that don't know the simple things and it's just like I get why, like yourself, and why I've had so many guests in the show said the same thing, like yeah, like a bad experience yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're changing the game. So what I love about what so you guys are extremely knowledgeable and you can, you know, maybe pick up with some others can't, and what may accentuate that, and you can have our software, you can use it as much as you want in your facility is now we can objectively tell that person's like let's look at their hip mobility, left versus right. You have their baseline. How is it doing today? So, yeah, you'll know, you'll notice that, but now you can give your your client a number, get them trying to prove, and then you know also whether it's that or kind of going down to the basics of your dorsiflexion we're looking at, you know, ankle mobility.
Speaker 1:It's fun.
Speaker 2:People try and gamify this all the time. So you know, we, we give you, we measure squat depth and people are like, all right, I, I know I'm going to get it better, I'm going to do this again. Uh, I'm going to beat my score, so they'll squat deeper and yet. But we're also measuring your forward torso lean. So you're going to get dinged on that. And why we're not? We're not providing diagnostics, we're just giving you information. But the most likely reason is because they have shitty dorsiflexion, so, in order to squat more, they compensate by leaning forward. So, again, our job is to give you, as a, as a fitness professional objective, information. You can do whatever the hell you want with it, um, but we, we found that the client uh, kind of like seeing the, the technology piece of it, um, oh, yeah, I don't know but it, it you know, it in their mind.
Speaker 2:It validates the thing that you know is the case anyway, and you're telling me, I love it.
Speaker 1:People love games they love having some score to get higher on and like look how much better I'm doing. And I'd rather than do that than sit there and with these smart watches and track their heart rates.
Speaker 1:It's like yeah you track your heart rate, but, like, what do you use information for? Or you check your steps and what do you use the information for? So at least the movement screening, I could say like moving better throughout the day and the week and you're in less pain and you're able to handle higher work capacity in the gym. So I totally get and understand the reasoning behind it and I think it's freaking awesome, awesome and the fact that you could take a camera and analyze people movements nowadays is mind-blowing yeah and you know what.
Speaker 2:So I I'm not in your profession and I don't know, for instance, what. What your frustrations, you know, may be sometimes. But if I were to assume, good, but let's just say I was going to. You know you can tell your clients all day long about nutrition and this and that and, and you can train them. But if they're eating like shit, then I mean they're, you know, I mean their, their weights. They may lose some weight, but it's not going to be proportionally the way you want it. But also let's just say that if they are eating well and you're training them right, it's still going to take three, four weeks at least before you can see a noticeable difference.
Speaker 2:Maybe in it's good to see that no one gives a shit about BMI anymore. I read that the other day, which is great because that's silly. But you can see, like their body fat percentage. You can see a noticeable difference. But it'll take, let's call it, a month. You as a fitness professional can change your client's movement in five minutes and so I think the InBody's and the eBolt's they're pretty cool, but you know you can't use that every five minutes and expect someone's body five percentage to change. But what I like about ours and the gamification is you can show how someone moves, you can give them your idea of how to improve their hip mobility and show them five minutes later that you know what the hell you're doing because you just made a move better yeah, I, I love that and I really just curiosity question.
Speaker 1:I know you guys have analyzed thousands of people at this point, right, so what are some commonalities that you see or any certain trends or things that you've noticed from all this data that you have?
Speaker 2:Yes, best mobility from the yogis and they have the worst stability of anybody. So you know, as you know, mobility, stability, they both have to be pretty good. I think really surprising is that probably the biggest, strongest, fastest people move the worst. I can't give the specifics of where we are in the military, but some of those people don't move terribly, terribly well, but they're strong as hell and all that. But and the problem with that becomes is you have a bigger engine like that and you're working hard and you can't move well, you're just susceptible. You're just susceptible and that's why the military is putting billions and you know behind, you know readiness and you know some of the prevention stuff. So, yeah, stronger people tend to move worse. Yoga, better mobility, bad stability. Um, and the, the ankle, the dorsiflexion and the way it just changed, it changes everything up the kinetic chain. It's amazing if somebody's ankle mobility changes, how it affects everything else in a positive way. It's.
Speaker 1:You know that I can't, I can't I.
Speaker 2:I tore my left Achilles. I rehabbed really hard for three months and started feeling better and then I got lazy and I'm paying the price now, six years later. But yeah, it affects everything. I don't move that well because of my left Achilles tear and I'm working on it, but I put myself in a hole.
Speaker 1:I love that. It kind of shows that even though you do yoga, you still need to add some weights in your life and can't fully rely on one practice. But that kind of goes the same thing with the gym. You can't just lift weights and then ignore the movements and how deep in a squat you can go. People just neglect it because they're like I'm just going to go to the gym, lift heavy and leave like what about everything else and what about making you feel better and being able to lift heavier without hurting yourself? Let's focus on movement patterns and stuff like that, something. One thing we've noticed which is a lot of research behind femur length, depending on how low you can go and how much forward lean you have. So people with longer torsos and shorter femurs, in a typical squat, like an overhead squat, we're going to have more forward lean. Just in general, just put the bottom mechanically works and then vice versa the other way. Is that something that's accounted for and explained in the app at all, or is it just?
Speaker 2:like no, but you're giving me good ideas. I like that. So we're bringing on more data science right now, because we now have enough data to actually do something with it, which is, you know, which is fun the one, actually. Let me go back. The one thing that I also find interesting is you'll sometimes see somebody that just can't move. Let's just say they're getting 60 degrees of squat depth. That's bad, but those people in many cases are more symmetric because they don't have the ability to be as asymmetric, because they're not moving as much. And sometimes you'll see people with incredible mobility, but they really are favoring one side over the other. So, yeah, if you can get to a hundred degrees of squat depth on one side, a hundred degrees is good, 90 degrees is good, but if you're a hundred on one side, 90 on the other, that's not good. So we are seeing people with incredible mobility that just don't have that symmetry and again, that's going to cause a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean just case in point for myself. As an example, I my squat death is like 90, maybe 85. I'm giving myself too much credit but that's no way, knowing mechanically how I move.
Speaker 1:Just having a longer torso makes means I have to have either a forward lean with a low bar squat, or B I have to elevate my ankles and then I'm able to really get good depth and control off of it. I think it would be interesting having that science behind, like how your body is different, meaning, do you have a longer torso, do you have a longer femur, do you have longer arms or shorter arms? All those things are going to play a role with how your body moves and works and it kind of takes it to that next level of really analyzing how your body is supposed to move based upon your musculoskeletal, which would be pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah's something that that I found fascinating at um ursa last year or whatever it's health and fitness association or ursa, you're right, yeah whatever, it's different now, different names, so.
Speaker 2:But, um, a woman came in who, uh, I don't know what, she maybe like an executive at some company. She had heels on. She's like, do I have to do this? Should I do this with my heels on or take my shoes off? I said, you know what, humor me, do it with both. And our scoring is, you know, one to 150, being average, although we're playing with that a bit. She did it with heels and got an incredible score. She had like an 80, which is we don't see a whole lot. Um, she took her heels off and she got a 50.
Speaker 2:So the ability to just get that elevation, it's just kind of like, you know you, you know you go do your squatting and you change your shoes, you get a little more heel lift. So you know, I just think again that it just all comes down to the ankles and I just think it's fascinating that someone can get a score 30 points higher in heels, because I think that's counterintuitive. You're like, oh, okay, she's in heels, she's less stable, stable, she's not going to do as well, but no, just having those elevated heels helps big time in your movement. And so when she did not have those heels? Um, it showed that those extra whatever four inches helped compensate for something. And again, that's just. That's just numbers and information. You're the expert, you figure out what that means dorsiflexion.
Speaker 1:Like I said before her atib, the muscle that controls dorsiflexion in the ankle is super tight. That's the same issue. And yeah, it's it. Just you can't get to get stuck. You feel like you can't move and it's all fun. And for those that don't know, that's's the shin, that's the front of the calf. But, it's just like can't move. Yeah, exactly, raise up the heel and you relax that a little bit and you're good to go, man, or throw yourself in a sumo squat, and then you can still get even further.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:I love it. Is there anything that's just to start wrapping this up? Is there anything more to come inside the app or anything you're working on next with it, or kind of how you're going to take this to the next level, kind of like we talked about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's. We have a roadmap through Q1 of 2026. We're in 2025 now, I think. Yeah, so next year.
Speaker 2:One thing I'll just say really quickly is we have really three pieces of our software. We have an enterprise version, pardon me, so you would have that in studio. We have the consumer app that all your clients could have and they could screen, you know, when they're not with you and you could kind of see and track what's going on. And then that middleware, which is you as the, as the fitness professional, your, your dashboard to track their, uh, movement. Give them some, you know, corrective protocols, whatever it's your, it's your, it's the gateway there. But what, what?
Speaker 2:What we're really working on and I think will be really fascinating is working with a company. Have you come across the guys at Rook? I'll say this in non-technical terms. Basically, they have technology that will to give people the option to bring in their wearable information into our app through what the guys at Rook are doing. So you have a whoop Okay, you can get your whoop data now put into our app.
Speaker 2:So now we can look at your biometrics and your biomechanics with what we're doing and we are trying to figure out a like a true recovery score, what we're doing and we are trying to figure out a like a true recovery score, because you can't just look at your movement and you can't just look at your biometrics and tell me, um, how, how ready I am really quick.
Speaker 2:I know you said wrap it up and I've taken three minutes already, but I went on a long hike in the summer. All right, um, because I have a couple torn meniscus I'm dealing with. So, um, slept extremely well that night after a long hike, got a 97, uh, on my readiness score with the message to go do something today because, like, it's your peak day, go work hard. Well, I had a 34 on our screen because my knees were totally and and all I wanted to do was sit on the couch and use my compression device. So how do I take my 34 and that 97? Like, what is my, what is my readiness that day? I think that's super hard to figure out, but we're going to try.
Speaker 1:Oh, I have the answer.
Speaker 2:Oh well, then let's do that off air, cause I don't want anyone else to know what's the answer.
Speaker 1:It's the average of both, and the reason I'm going to say that is because you can increase your score if you want to go for that, for like sleeping and recovery by doing some sort of movement. And the more movement you do, the more exhaust your body and the better night's sleep you're going to get. Movement it works on extremes, so doing nothing, your muscles is going to get super tight. Doing too much like your height is going to keep you super tight and exposed. So that middle ground is what's going to get you a better score. So doing some kind of movement is going to theoretically increase your recovery score, but making sure you're not going too extreme off the movement and being in the middle of it.
Speaker 1:That's why a workout shouldn't be to like I'm toast burnt, can't move, can't get off the floor. It should make you feel good and feel like, oh my God, I did something. My body moved. I got a good 45 minutes in. I didn't work out for three and a half hours or go for a four-hour hike, but I did something at intensity for 45 minutes to an hour. I feel great. It's enough to make sure I go to bed and get a relatively high score. And then putting them two together will give you where you need to be.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, that's a head start and I guess that's the question. We'll look at the data. Is it 50-50? I don't know, but that's what we want to figure out, and so I'm excited to see what we can do. There are tons of other cool stuff on just some of our roadmap. Maybe we can jump back on in a year or less.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm so in.
Speaker 2:Awesome dude.
Speaker 1:All right, andrew, I'm just going to wrap this up, Like I said. The first question is if you were to summarize this episode in one or two sentences, what would be your take-home message? I'm sorry I missed that first part. It's okay if you want to summarize this episode in one or two sentences.
Speaker 2:What's your take-home message? My take-home message is movement is a vital sign, so pay attention to it I love it.
Speaker 1:And the second one how do people find your app? Learn more and all that fun stuff?
Speaker 2:uh, I'm not on social media very much at all and that's very irresponsible. But uh, best way to reach me is just on on linkedin, linkedin. I'd love to hear from anybody about ideas, potential partnerships, just you know, good conversation about the industry. Uh, yeah, linkedin please I love it.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, andrew, for coming on. Thank you, guys for listening this week's episode of health, fitness redefined. Don't forget sharing, sharing where we grow the show and follow along. Guys, thank you so much. Until next time, don't forget, fitness is medicine. Thank you, outro Music.
