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Health & Fitness Redefined
Health and Fitness Redefined with Anthony Amen. Take a dive into the health world as we learn how to overcome adversity, depict fact vs fiction and see health & fitness in a whole new light.Fitness Is Medicine
Health & Fitness Redefined
Beyond Heavy Lifting: How BFR Training is Changing the Fitness Game for Aging Bodies
Hello and welcome to Health Ministry Defined. I'm your host, anthony Menden. Today we have another great episode for all of you. Hopefully you're enjoying all the ones that came out. We did a huge batch recording and we're finally caught up, so this is live and raw. That you're seeing this only a couple days apart from it comes out. Everyone knows just had a kid, so he's four and a half months now, which is crazy. Time's flying anyway. Actually, it's a pleasure to have you on today.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming thanks, anthony, it's great to be here yeah, absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1:Just tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into the fitness room, and we'll go from there.
Speaker 2:Sounds good. Well, first of all, I have a four and a half year old and a two and a half year old, so I'm a little bit ahead of you, but I remember those days pretty clearly still so you're in for a ride.
Speaker 1:It's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it gets better. Yeah. So I've been in the fitness industry for gosh 30 years Kind of ages me but started out as an athlete. I was a national champion in the javelin of all things, and then gone on from there to coach some world-class athletes, like Coach Jackie Joyner-Kersee, and getting her ready for the 96 Olympics and the 98 Goodwill Games, and from there started personal training which honestly I didn't think was my career path. I really thought I was going to go in the coaching room. I was coaching at Stanford at the time but trying to supplement my income.
Speaker 2:And next thing, you know, I got in with this great company and then really started loving it and particularly got into opportunity to open a studio with that company and then realized how much I actually loved the business side and the training side and so pivoted and opened my own studio 20 years ago in the Bay area and we're we're doing pretty well.
Speaker 2:Covid was rough for us, for most people, but we're doing great. Now we have about 40 practitioners that work out of our space physical therapy, chiropractic, personal, personal training. We do a little bit, a little bit all of that and then more recently kind of coming out of COVID in the last couple years I I started a virtual company that specializes online blood flow restriction training and really targeting that men and women, but I would say, trying to lean in and targeting towards women midlife, because it's such an amazing tool for for hormones and and building strength under less load, and not a lot of people are talking to women about it, so it's kind of an interesting niche that I've found myself in. So that's, that's pretty fun.
Speaker 1:When did you start getting into BFR training?
Speaker 2:So it's kind of funny I I um found out about BFR from my dad, who was like in his late 70s but he had a shoulder replacement and he was being told to use it with his doctor and physical therapist. He's a very he's always been an athletic guy, he was a football player in college and has always been fit, so it was pretty up on stuff, and so he got me some BFR cups for Christmas, kind of a fun Christmas gift. And so then being a trainer, you know I knew I knew about him but I hadn't really done a lot with him and so I started learning about it and experimenting with it and was blown away at sort of the quick results I got. So I went into some deeper education and then I actually had hip replacement 11 years ago when I was 43 because I broke it skiing as a kid.
Speaker 2:So tough, tough being a high-end athlete and a trainer, and by my 30s I was limping, I couldn't do anything dynamic. It was rough, so very hard emotional journey for me in that had the replacement and did okay, but I mean I was unstable, I lost a lot of muscle mass, I couldn't rebuild it and when I started using BFR it like completely changed the health of my hip and my strength like fast. And I was shocked. I mean, I've done everything in training pretty much and like never had experienced that before, so had this kind of aha moment of like this is this is real, these benefits are real, and started using with all my clients and friends and then teaching people online. And then they wanted a program and I just I wasn't looking to start a business, but it just sort of happened, um, and I was so excited about it that it was fun, so I just kept kept digging into it yeah, yeah, I totally get.
Speaker 1:I actually did a episode, oh god, a year ago on you on that podcast. I don't even remember his name, to be totally honest.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll have to go back and look at it.
Speaker 1:That sounds good yeah, it was the first time I ever heard of it and he was talking about it a lot and I was like, okay, maybe I've seen one or two people doing it and I really dove into it and recently started learning more and more about it. So it's a little more wrapped up in what it is now than I was, yeah, a year ago it's interesting, you know it has kind of an interesting reputation, so to speak.
Speaker 2:It kind of sounds like it's interesting. You know it has kind of an interesting reputation, so to speak. It kind of sounds like it's really good for hypertrophy. So bodybuilders use it and it sounds really intense and can be painful. But it's come so far.
Speaker 2:The technology of the bands and the use cases have really grown to show. I mean, it's really popular in physical therapy because you can literally build muscle mass with a low load, which is impossible if you're not using BFR bands. But so people think of it in this physical therapy lens. But if you extrapolate that out, there's lots of reasons why people might not be able to load heavy enough to really build, or maybe you don't want to load four days a week heavy it. It's pretty incredible the muscle mass you can get with literally super lightweight, like 20% of your of your max Um. So I think it's opens up a lot of exciting possibilities, especially people.
Speaker 2:I've worked with a lot of men like 55, 60 plus that are not getting as much human growth hormone naturally anymore Same with women, and um, it's been. Studies have shown that you can getting as much human growth hormone naturally anymore. Same with women, and studies have shown that you can get as much and actually more human growth hormone doing a BFR workout than you can do a heavy workout. So that's kind of where you're getting the benefits. So it's quite interesting.
Speaker 1:I think, to start because a lot of people don't even know what it is. Can you explain what it is, how it works, and then we'll dive into that side of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, so you even know what it is. Can you explain what it is, how it works, and then we'll dive into that side of it? Yeah, sure, so you wear these cuffs on your um, upper arms and upper legs that you you tighten to a certain pressure and it reduces venous blood flow, so it's not affecting your arterial flow. Um, so it's safe.
Speaker 2:You're continuing to have blood flow, but the venous flow gets slowed down, which what it really does is. It causes short-term hypoxia in the muscle and it causes a buildup of metabolites in your blood. So, like lactate, like blood, lactate increases significantly when you're using BFR, because normally, if you didn't have those cuffs on, your blood flow would just take that lactate right out and it would stay low. But because your blood flow is not being able to flow through as quickly, it builds up and that lactate or those increased metabolites send a signal to your pituitary gland to release more human growth hormone because it thinks you're under this. Well, you are under this tremendous kind of fatigue, but the fatigue has been more caused by the cuffs than it is the load you're lifting. So it just kind of switches, how we get strong, from a mechanical load on our joints and muscles to a metabolic stimulation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good summary. Where are these cuffs being worn? Just for people that don't know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Upper arms like kind of as high as you can get them right below your deltoid, and upper legs just kind of under your glutes, and kind of upper adductors and people a lot of. Also people think that it's only working the muscles below, so just like your arms and your legs, but it actually will work up the chain as well. So like chest back glutes, everything will fatigue a little faster, but also the human growth hormone is going to all muscle groups, so you really get a pretty systemic benefit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good explanation, but just going to give it a rough idea, uh, what I've noticed about it and kind of where I lie is it's good for certain use cases. You mentioned your dad, right? Someone in the 70s undergoing physical therapy needs to focus on building strength because he was a previous athlete doing it under supervision. I'm all in like, yeah, it makes total sense. The research is there. It does show it increases strength as much as lifting heavy loads does. It does show it increases hypertrophy like lifting heavy loads does. It's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1:Take that use case into the elderly population across the people that have crazy injuries and for those you kind of mentioned that really don't have, just don't have weights around or they're beginners, they're afraid of lifting heavy, whatever where. Where you lose me and this is where you can help me understand is why is this better than telling like think a basic client, right, doesn't know much about the body, doesn't know much about how things work. I walk into a gym. Is it safe for that person to experiment with BFR training or are they better off just going to a machine and doing what they know, just to move around and move weights a little bit?
Speaker 2:So it's safe, first of all. I mean, there's some contraindications, just like regular exercise has some contraindications, just like regular exercise has some contraindications, right? So you would check that, let me clarify safe.
Speaker 1:I don't mean safe by like the bends themselves okay I mean safe in the sense that I'm somebody who doesn't even know what the difference between atrial venous nerve, like blood flow, is. So I don't even know where the hell I'm putting it and I don't know what tight it needs to be. I don't know what normal is supposed to feel like. So what's preventing somebody from that like just putting in the wrong spot and putting it way too tight?
Speaker 2:yeah well, I mean the bands that are out now. You can't go too tight. They're either the ones I use. Um have individual air pockets, so even if you tighten as much as they could, they would not harm you. And there's other ones that have digital readouts that measure your occlusion pressure, and so they'll never let you occlude, fully occlude. So 10 years ago, 20 years ago, you're right, they were not necessarily safe. You could do it wrong. But now they've kind of solved that in the technology. I would say you know, I'm not against heavy lifting or regular training. I own a gym and I still have that.
Speaker 2:We do. But I have never seen a technique get strength results as easy, as quickly and with this, with least amount of strain, so lower. So someone beginner I actually think it's great for them because it'll let them more quickly gain strength, which a lot of people fall off of fitness because it takes a while to get gains. Quickly get strength, build a foundation and then can move into heavier lifting more safely because they actually have already more strength in their body. But you can do it either way. If they start with regular again, nothing wrong with that, especially if there's no injuries. But for women it's the hormone response that I think is key. Like anyone that's over 40 has less human growth hormone. I mean it peaks in like when we're early twenties anyway.
Speaker 2:But you are gradually losing hormone, growth hormone, which human growth hormone which is, like you know, muscle strength, bone, cognitive health, maintaining lean body mass, so like burning fat through lipolysis, human growth hormone helps with that. So as we age, it's just harder and harder to get that through a traditional workout and BFR is sort of a way to biohack to get a bigger human growth hormone release. So I haven't found a client. Again, if a client is older, to your point, like someone elderly, I'd probably only have them do BFR besides cardio, but in terms of strength, because when you have someone do BFR without doing it in a session.
Speaker 1:Say that again. Would you have someone if you just had a friend who said, hey, I'm starting working out where you just say, hey, do BFR training under? No, not like with a trainer, it's more being someone on their own.
Speaker 2:I see what you mean. Well, I developed a program virtually to walk people through exactly how to get started. So, to your point, there's lots of questions how do you put them on, how tight to go, what should the reps and sets be, what should the different exercises? So, yeah, people need to learn that and so there is a learning curve on that's probably what I created my program around. There's other things out there or they can even just YouTube, google.
Speaker 2:It's not. You know, there's kind of a ramp up learning period. If someone was just as much, if I just talked to someone, to send them to the gym, it's no harder to explain that really to to explain, like how to get started. But again, I'm not, I'm not against. I do regular training and be a part-time. I just think it's such a great compliment and can give such fast results that I think it's very underutilized. I mean, you mentioned the test case of my dad or the elderly person and that's what people think of as BFR. Now, there's way more use cases than that that can give huge positive changes with people that otherwise are stalling out on their results.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just still blows my mind.
Speaker 2:I know it's so. It's a total paradigm shift and it's hard to kind of think, but that's why it wasn't until I had this like incredible experience myself. I think if I hadn't had that, I wouldn't have globbed on the blood flow restriction, but because I just had literally a life changing. It changed my mental outlook on my aging, it changed the hope I had in my body. It made me feel back to my normal self and, like I'm a trainer, I'd been trying everything and nothing else did that. So it was that powerful story for me that has made me, you know, really be passionate about this. But you know, not everyone's going to have that initial, initial passion to try it.
Speaker 1:so you know, I totally get that yeah, and it kind of goes into this realm and this is kind of a good like segue too is there's so many different modalities inside of Fitness right you can take? Yep it's just a small slither example of everything everyone's ever heard of, from even just more mainstream like pilates, yoga, to less mainstream, like bfr to whatever there's a thousand things inside of this realm that I can see as a consumer can be super overwhelming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and confusing.
Speaker 1:Okay, where do I go, like, how do I know what's best for me? And they hear shows like this. So they go to a gym and talk to their friends and family, like what's the answer for that person? That's just what do I start, what do I look at? How do you talk to them?
Speaker 2:That's such a great question. I mean it is overwhelming with all the modalities out there. I mean I generally say, you know, start with basics, start with the foundational movements. Obviously, if someone's really a beginner meaning they haven't done much exercise just doing anything that gets them moving is going to be beneficial. So what speaks to them? The people that I've been coaching with BFR that are in my program a lot of it are women that like, don't like. I'm an athlete, I lifted heavy my whole life, and there's people I work with that have lifted heavy their whole life, but a lot of people have not, and so to go into a gym and try to lift heavy can be really, really intimidating. So, having something that's easy, you can do at home you only need five pound weights, it's only a 20 minute workout, but you get these amazing results that's pretty appealing to a lot of a lot of people. So that's kind of where I've gone with this.
Speaker 2:Like, how do you remove the obstacles? The obstacles are, getting to a gym can sometimes be an obstacle. Some people love the gym I love the gym but not everybody. How much time do you have for a workout? What equipment do you have access to? What form are you? Do you have the form to be able to load your body heavily? You can do isolated machines at the gym. If you don't, that's good, but that's going to be more, you know, single joint exercise, which isn't quite as beneficial to real life movement.
Speaker 2:So I think you know how do you remove obstacles? I think it's making it accessible, making a workout accessible, making it, you know, get rid of whatever barriers people have and try to get them fast results so they see positive change soon, so they're develop a positive association with the activity. And there's no one right answer to that question. Right, it depends on the person, it depends on what they're like, it depends on the movements they like, it depends on the activities they like, and then it depends on their goals. And then age, injuries, hormones, all those play a role as well.
Speaker 1:I think it's such an's interesting, like being involved in it like you are, and seeing thousands of people throughout our careers watching kind of go through this it's.
Speaker 1:It still perplexes me like some people fall into one specific modality and like they just get stuck and then they burn out and they disappear and they come back to that same modality, get stuck, burn out, disappear and there's very few modalities inside of it that truly have like life benefit.
Speaker 1:And I don't mean I don't people think this is the wrong way, like everything's better than nothing, like doing something is better than nothing bar none period. But for as I age and as I kind of get into this, I start really kind of what you said, which was working on things that help with your everyday life is probably the most important thing to work on and that should be prioritized above everything else. So, just as an example, as much as Orange Theory is fun and exciting to a lot of people, when the hell is a 60-year-old full-out sprinting for 20 straight minutes and then going to unsupervised weights and then going back, how does that prioritize their life? I just don't get it. Take Pilates Pilates is great for certain specific muscle groups, like floor Pilates or a reformer, where you're stuck in a crazy contraption machine. How does that act with us interacting with our environment?
Speaker 1:And that's maybe what we need to prioritize more. How do we interact with our environment? So To kind of tie, because I don't know the answer to this yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's say you live on a high altitude location, right, your blood ox is going to be a lot lower. There's a lot of production in the atmosphere. Places in Colorado, as an example, or Wyoming Does twofold of this. Does BFR help? Uh, learning to work under low oxygen situations because that could be beneficial for life? Some that was in high altitude a lot of people do. Yeah, like, is that something that? If, hey, if I'm moving to colorado, like in the rockies, I need to make sure that I work on blood oxygen, because that's something we work on is like a little oxygen restriction. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:So I actually have some clients that live in Crested Butte, which is like 10,000 feet Right, and they do BFR and but they're already acclimated to the, to the auctions. They, they live there. If you're traveling there, you might want to do something like, if you're traveling to a ski vacation somewhere high, you might want to do some BFR training before you go so that you're prepared. Because once you live there you have plenty of time to acclimate. But if you're going for a week-long trip, you're going to be at the end of the trip before you're really acclimated. So it can definitely help to prepare for that.
Speaker 2:The interesting thing for them when they do BFR at altitude they don't get as much muscle fatigue as when they come back down and do BFR at, because they've gotten really good at aerobically dealing with low oxygen. But their muscle the BFR actually impacts their muscle more when they're at low altitude. So it's it's interesting I don't it's a, it's a. It's working with low altitude in a different way. Like, obviously if you're altitude you're breathing in less oxygen. With BFRfr it's just starting from the muscular level, not your oxygen, not your lung and heart level. So it's a slight different, but it will help prepare you to get to altitude, which is kind of cool yeah see, I can see that's practical, like I'm going skiing up in the apps or whatever.
Speaker 1:I want to be ready day one yeah I don't want to show up and have to worry about adjusting to altitude, sickness and passing out, not being able to drive my friends while they're having fun skiing like f that, oh, like my cousin was in colorado a lot of hiking.
Speaker 1:So like I wanted to go hiking day one. Let's hike 13,000 feet up and I'm based on long island and there ain't even a hill here, so we're at sea level. Sea level can be. So just trying to prep for that trip was important to me because I got I was only there for a week and I was like hiking three mountains man in a week so that that I can see like practicality purposes though that's what training has become to me is practical. What can I do now that's going to benefit me in my everyday life? Make everyday life easier, because I mean I just this is the million dollar question right Every year there's a new type of training, or maybe every three months it feels like a disorient, but yet the obesity population of the U S still going up.
Speaker 2:Right, but that's not because of the modality, is because those people aren't exercising. Because we've gotten more sedentary, more tech, more on our phones, more you know, less activity.
Speaker 1:It could have a thing to do with it. I'm going to explain why. Okay, we're going to go a little deep here. Psychology here's a huge pet peeve of Anthony myself. I hate diners, Hate them. Diners why Diners? Really obscure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like what.
Speaker 1:Not something you were expecting me to say, right?
Speaker 2:Why do?
Speaker 1:I hate diners Because I show up and the menu is six pages long and there's like 15 different options in six pages. So I just get so overwhelmed of the menu. I'm like, well, how do I know what's good like, how do I know that what this diner is really good at making they they're not specializing in it Flip it to. I show up at a steakhouse and they have three cuts of meat, that's it. I'm like, boom, we're golden. Like I know they worked their ass off and they worked to get this specific thing.
Speaker 1:Take that into our field, right, totally, I come into. There's a reason like niche gyms do so much better than big box to uh, there's a reason like niche gyms do so much better than big box. So big box gym that, like in la, for example, has seven different types of classes, has open gym, has personal training, has a pool, and people just like, uh, I guess we'll just go use the equipment, like the other stuff doesn't really work, whereas if you come to us it's what do you guys do here? Personal training, like what else? No, no, that that's it. Yeah, and people just know like okay, that's the answer. It's one specific thing. So maybe my point being there's more options we add to people, the more overwhelmed they're going to become and the less likely they are to act. Because there are so many options, it's not super overwhelming for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great analogy. I love the diner analogy. I was wondering where you're going with that, but that was good. Yeah, too many choices, that's a common. Too many choices on anything is. Is limits, action right Limits, people taking making decisions. So I totally agree with that. I mean, I think I think there's a reason there's so many, there's so many fads because people are trying to be unique and step out. I mean, I think, specifically going back to blood flow restriction, it's been around for 50 years, so it's not necessarily a new fad, but I agree with you that it's newer to fitness. So it's another new bell and whistle thing. I think for me, I'm speaking to people at a level that they relate to.
Speaker 2:When you talked about training for your life. There's a lot of talk these days about, especially for women, maintaining muscle mass as they age. Post-menopause is huge and it's very hard to do. Bfr makes it much easier. Bone density for women super important Men too, by the way. Especially as we get more sedentary, bone density becomes an issue, but women struggle with more because of their drop in estrogen and human growth hormone, and BFR training is showing that you're stimulating bone growth with BFR training.
Speaker 2:Cognitive health, weight management. There's so many things that, um, women struggle with due to hormones and age, and men struggle with it, I think, a little later, maybe like 10 years later, because their hormones are more gradually lost that I just that kind of longevity conversation on how do I maintain strength, how do I maintain bonus, how do I maintain my view to max without killing myself in these workouts that don't feel good on my body anymore at 50 years old or at six years old, worse for some people. For me it was at 43 year olds, after after hip replacement, actually in my thirties, I you know, but I was different than I had a very specific injury, but there, I'm not the only one out there, right? So it's like finding a solution that's doable for people, that meets their life goals of longevity without injuring them or just beating them down in the process, and that's kind of the niche that I've kind of gotten into.
Speaker 2:But again, I have a gym with 30 trainers and we do, you know, heavy lifting, kettlebells, barbell stuff, I mean sleds, all the, all the stuff you see out there for for heavy load, and for the right client that's, that's a great option and probably the better option, but it just depends on how you, I think, as a trainer, it's like the art, right. How do you weave it together? There's not one. There might be one philosophy of, like I'm more of a foundational movement person, right, but there's still a lot of ways to weave that workout together, you know well then I get to.
Speaker 1:The flip side of it is, after you get somebody involved, now you have to prevent them from getting bored, which is the killer of our industry. Just pure because it's monotonous at the end of the day, all exercises yeah, yeah that's literally the definition of it, if you really think about it.
Speaker 1:But it just you weave in and out different specific things to keep it fun, and engaging because at the end of the day it's just showing up is the most important part that's how do you break up the monotony, like there needs to be enough monotony to get results, but if it's too much monotony it's like oh, kill me, I'm done.
Speaker 2:Like I agree, yeah. Well, that's where the personality comes in, right. You got to be a little bit entertaining or at least create a relationship and have like good conversation.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, it's everything. Yet again, though, going into modality of personal training as opposed to open gym access as an example right, having someone there making sure you show, show up which I think that accountability portion of it truly is the the difference of it and I know this is totally off topic, but whatever I'm thinking about it, I personally believe that personal training will, as a career, will not only not disappear ever, but actually keep growing, like exponentially. I know a lot of people get worried about ai taking over their jobs, which is true for a lot of industries, and it's good change, like that's just what happens, right, but human connection was destroyed during covid and people crave it now more than ever, and the more things become robotic, the more people are going to crave a human connection. There was a company Yep, it was a gym that tried doing like AI.
Speaker 1:They had machines set up, you scanned it, it would walk you through the exercise, you'd plug everything, you'd tell you to go next. It got really popular. In a month. They went out of business in a year. People wanted people like, yeah, boring, you're talking to robots all day yeah, you want that personality, that fun, engaging, exciting smile on someone's face, etc.
Speaker 1:Etc.
Speaker 2:So definitely something to think about when you're, especially if you're listening, just like I don't know what the fuck to do, like yeah that's right and I think half the reason why personal trainers you said it are are needed for the accountability of course you want to train to this knowledgeable and knows what they're doing and all that.
Speaker 2:But half of it's showing up, like you said, and when you have someone there waiting for you, that's that's a big part of the value, or the big part of the what you're what, what you're getting out of it, and and then the more there's that human connection and relationship and you know I've trained clients for 20 years that are like practically family. Now you know it's like I know them so well, they know me so well. I've seen him twice a week for 20 years. It's like there's a real relationship there that becomes a lot harder to walk away from and so you know that's actually a good thing for their health, right, like they have commitment to a person that's not just themselves, because some people can so easily break their commitments to themselves, sadly enough, you know, but it's harder to break it to someone else.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. Actually, I'm going to ask you the final two questions. I want to wrap this up. First question is we were to summarize this episode in one or two sentences, what would be your take on message?
Speaker 2:How do we simplify fitness for people? It's too confusing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's phenomenal. And the second one how can people find you, get ahold of you and learn more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, ashley at celliestrengthcom. Celliestrengthcom is my website IG celliestrengthcom. It's all S-E-L-I. Lots of great information out there.
Speaker 1:Um, if anyone wants to learn more, love it actually. Thank you for coming on. The guests listen to this episode of health fitness redefined. Don't forget, subscribe, share something where we grow, because we don't run ads. Thank you, guys. Don't forget, fitness is medicine. Until next time, thank you. Outro Music.
