A Ranger's Reset: Ibogaine, 5-MeO-DMT, and Post-Traumatic Growth

What happens when traditional medicine fails to heal the invisible wounds of war? Former Army Ranger Mike Leal takes us on an extraordinary journey from the battlefields of Afghanistan to a revolutionary treatment that completely restored his damaged brain and broken spirit.

Mike's story begins with a startling revelation - before becoming an elite special operations soldier, he was a college dropout struggling with heroin addiction. Seeking escape, he joined the military and unexpectedly found himself drawn to the Rangers, America's premier assault force. Through six grueling deployments and countless firefights, Mike witnessed horrors that would eventually catch up with him. "I would get out of work and just start crying in my truck," he reveals, describing the crushing weight of PTSD and traumatic brain injuries that medication couldn't touch.

The VA's response was predictable - more pills, more diagnoses, more disconnection. After a suicide attempt and the crushing realization that the system designed to help veterans was fundamentally broken, Mike discovered an unconventional path forward. His description of Ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT treatment in Mexico is nothing short of miraculous - "I could feel the clicking start in both parts of my brain... it felt like someone was plugging pieces of my brain back in and turning them on." The transformation was immediate and profound, restoring mental clarity, emotional connection, and purpose.

Perhaps most compelling is Mike's new mission - creating a nonprofit to help other veterans access this life-changing therapy. With approximately 40 veterans taking their lives daily, his urgency is palpable. "I don't want them to struggle like I did for 10 years," he explains, his voice filled with the conviction of someone who's found the answer to an impossible question.

Whether you're a veteran searching for healing, someone struggling with trauma, or simply curious about cutting-edge treatments for the mind, this episode offers hope where traditional approaches have failed. Subscribe now and share this powerful conversation with someone who might need to hear that healing is possible, even from the deepest wounds.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Guest Background
• 4:21 Military Experience and Combat
• 9:06 Addiction and Mental Health Struggles
• 17:34 Trauma, PTSD, and Relationships
• 27:09 Failed Traditional Treatments
• 38:34 Finding Purpose in Dog Training
• 48:17 Ibogaine Treatment Experience
• 1:23:13 DMT and Spiritual Healing
• 1:34:58 Mission to Help Veterans Heal
• 1:40:05 Final Thoughts and Closing

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

This is Health and Fitness Redefined, brought to you by Redefined Fitness. Hello and welcome to Health and Fitness Redefined. I'm your host, anthony Amen. Today we have another great episode for all of you today. Today's guest is Mr Mike, right here next to me. It's so much better to do an in-person one than virtual For those that want to come on. Guys, we have a new podcast room, so if you're in the local community, you have a story to share, let me know Happy to get you on, sit down, talk about it and see how we can help other people, because ultimately, that's what this is all about. So, without further ado, let's welcome Mike. Mike Leal is someone I've known for a few years now, really excited to hear his story. If you heard my story beyond breaking points, this one's going to blow you away. So share it to someone who needs to hear this, because I think this could help a lot of people. So, mike, just tell us a little bit about yourself. Kind of take us all the way back to even your decision to join the military.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Okay, that's actually a good starting point. So I grew up in upstate New York. I lived in Marcellus, new York, a little small town, about 5,000 people. I ended up going to college at University of Albany and I was actually a heroin addict when I was in college. I ended up dropping out my senior year. I overdosed in my room and I was like this is no way to live. I was struggling really bad and one of my good friends brought me to the recruiter's office and it was like hey, like I'm gonna help you out. He helped walk me through the whole process and I ended up joining the army. Man, it's crazy hearing you know myself talk about it because it's, it seems, so long ago and it's so fresh in my mind like all the craziness that I went through. But I joined the Army. I was 23 years old.

Speaker 2: 1:54

I ended up going to Fort Sill, oklahoma. I did basic training there and at the time I wanted nothing to do with combat. I was a computer nerd so I just wanted to sit behind a computer desk. I remember the recruiter asking me. He was like hey, do you want to do airborne? I was like heck, no, I'm freaking afraid of heights, like I would never jump out of an airplane. So that changed later.

Speaker 2: 2:17

But I ended up going to what's called my AIT, my advanced individual training. That's my job. There was a communications guy in the military and when I was around the people I was around, I was like I am going to die if I'm around these people. It was an eye-opening experience. I'm very transparent about the military. There are some great people that serve but, just like the world, there's just some things that aren't right with some people. I just didn't feel comfortable around them. So one of my buddies, his name's nick mott um, he was there with me and all he was talking about was his brother and how this he was doing this cool training, and I was like, oh well, you know, tell me about it. He's like, well, they deploy for three months. I was like, oh, I will do that, I don't care what it is. Little did I know he was talking about being an army ranger.

Speaker 2: 3:06

So I ended up going to airborne school, jumping out of airplanes and, uh, volunteering to be an army ranger. I had no idea what that entailed, had no idea what they even did. Minus, they had three month deployments. Uh, for those of you don't know, uh, army rangers are the army's primary assault force and their job is to go and kill or capture whatever they they have their eyes on and they do it very well and they're very lethal and that's a big difference. I like I like to educate the audience. People will say well, is it special forces, is it this? There's a big difference. Special forces goes in and they work with locals and they help build militias and get people to fight against whatever evil powers in the area. And rangers, they just go in and kill things. It's a big difference in job and it takes a certain type of person to do both.

Speaker 2: 4:07

The ranger selection program it's called RASP. I went through the first one where they changed from RIP to RASP. We started with about 300 candidates, graduated, I believe, 35. Wow, yeah, it's been crazy. That was nothing but a test of your mental and physical toughness. Um, very little sleep, more PT than you can imagine. Um, running, rucking, uh, basically torture for like the first four weeks. Um, it was brutal. I lost about 30, 35 pounds through that process. Um, but I made it through and uh, and ended up going to a second ranger battalion and that's in Fort Lewis at Tacoma, washington, and that's where I really started working and I did communications for the whole ranger battalion and then I eventually deployed and went to Kandahar my first trip.

Speaker 2: 5:09

I was sitting behind a desk for the first like couple weeks and then I got the itch. I was like I want to go out on mission and that is what changed my life is. I went out on my first mission and I get off that helicopter. We're about about a hundred feet from the house that we were assaulting and it was like a scene from a movie doors blowing off, guys on the roof shooting guns, killing people, um, and I was just like Whoa, it was like a sensory overload. I was almost like in shock. It was just whatever you could imagine in a crazy military movie. That's what it was. And from that point on I was addicted. I went out every single night that I could with all the platoons that were there in Kandahar with me.

Speaker 2: 5:57

And after that deployment I ended up going to ranger school, which is very difficult to go to, especially if you're a communications guy and went to ranger school after my deployment, failed the first phase what's called recycled and had to wait until the next class started up. But in between that they had a thing called Best Ranger. It happens every year. So I had like a six-week break before I could start again and they just kind of beat the crap out of you for six weeks before you start again, um. So I did that, made it all the way through, graduated class 7-11 um, and deployed two weeks after my graduation. Uh, mind you, after I graduated I couldn't lift a 20 pound dumbbell. I lost 50 pounds while I was in ranger school and um, I had to get back into shape and fighting shape because I I went out and deployed literally two weeks after I graduated.

Speaker 2: 6:57

And then um did that deployment to kandahar again did nothing, a ton of combat. Uh, lost a lot of friends, experienced a lot of uh, very brutal things while I was deployed and um came back home, did my training cycle did. Another deployment to Sherat was place called Sharana. Uh, that was my craziest deployment. Uh, I mean, I was shot at pretty much half the missions we went out on each night, stepped on bombs, lost a lot of friends again, and that was kind of like a reoccurring theme throughout most of my deployments. I did six total deployments in eight years.

Speaker 2: 7:41

I spent most of my career deployed to Afghanistan and all in other parts of the world as well.

Speaker 2: 7:47

I did other things. I ended up doing undercover communications and low-vis comms is what they call with a lot of the big players like SEAL, team 6, black and Gold Squadron, delta Force, things like that. And towards the end of my career is when I started really struggling with my mental health. I didn't know what was wrong. I would get out of work and just start crying in my truck. I just I would start bawling. I felt this incredible sense of loneliness and hopelessness. I was talking to a social worker at my old job at JSOC and I would call her just bawling my eyes out. At this time I was bodybuilding, so that's when I started my bodybuilding coaching career. But all I could do was get home, change, go to the gym so I wouldn't be alone, and that's when my mental health just started to really deteriorate. It was towards the end of my career and with that, once I got out, I started an online coaching business where I just want to stop you there because I think it's important to go back.

Speaker 1: 8:58

Okay, right, take me back to pre-military right. Okay, you mentioned something I had no idea.

Speaker 2: 9:06

So you were a heroin addict?

Speaker 1: 9:08

Yes, Beforehand, and I think there's an underlying connection here which a lot of people might have as well to relate.

Speaker 2: 9:15

Okay.

Speaker 1: 9:16

What got you into the drug first? What was that first step? That?

Speaker 2: 9:21

So it actually. I think it's a very common way. Someone gave me a painkiller and I've never taken one before.

Speaker 1: 9:27

Um what made you want to take a painkiller, though?

Speaker 2: 9:31

um, I think, just being in college and, like you know, experimenting with different things, someone had one and we're like, yeah, I don't want this. And I was like I'll take it whatever. Whatever and as crazy as that sounds, that's what got me hooked, because the feeling on it was so intense and felt so good that I was like, oh man, like I always want to feel like that. And what's unfortunate you know I kind of left this part out, but I'm glad you brought us back to it is a group of us high school friends, all very good students, very good kids, all got into it at the same time and there's only a few of us left that survived. Most of them have overdosed and passed away, including my best friend. His name is Dylan.

Speaker 1: 10:17

Did you feel a sense of loneliness back then? That made you feel like, because you mentioned the painkiller gave you a sense you never had before. So was there something disconnected?

Speaker 2: 10:27

so, um, I will say this, and I'm not going to get into too much detail I I did have some trauma happen when I was a child that, um, I never told anyone, and I didn't even tell my own, my, my mom, until I was like 32 years old, 33 years old, and I think that is what made it very difficult for me in college. I went to college and I was a shit show. I couldn't focus in school, I was depressed, I couldn't function by myself and it was very frustrating. I think that's what kind of made things worse for me. I would go in these cycles of being good, not good, year in and year out, and later a physician I worked with was like oh, you had PTSD then too, right, and I think that just goes unchecked. I think a lot of people don't realize that trauma, especially childhood trauma, will manifest itself later and you may have no idea why it just comes out of nowhere. So that might be a good connection between those things. Yeah, it relates back.

Speaker 1: 11:40

So you start thinking that there's PTSD earlier in life. That brings you into the military. The military, I can just imagine never gone through it, but it's quick moving. You go from boot camp to ranger school to mission and it's just nonstop. So you're constantly riding a high and then you get to the point you get used to it. All of a sudden, the quick pace is like oh, this is actually not that bad. I'm kind of used to going this quick and then all of a sudden life catches back up.

Speaker 2: 12:07

Oh yes.

Speaker 1: 12:07

And that's when it re-hits you. That's when you got emotional again, started breaking down and that ultimately led you to leave.

Speaker 2: 12:18

Yeah, so I was at a point where my mental health was deteriorating. The next job I wanted to go to is, you know, going either to Delta force or another tier one unit within my community that I worked in. There's a lot of very secret units that people don't know exist. But you're basically, when you're once you're at where I was at, you're building your resume to get to that next level. You know, and you have to show at, you're building your resume to get to that next level and you have to show yourself, improve yourself through your work. And I just reached a point where I was like this wasn't good for me mentally and I loved helping people in the bodybuilding and lifestyle aspect of diet and exercise. So that's why I chose to get out as well.

Speaker 1: 13:02

What was the initial push into the bodybuilding fitness side of it? Because you could have done anything, yeah. So why that?

Speaker 2: 13:09

It was a challenge and I think a lot of people dive into it, because it's a couple reasons. Everyone likes looking good, they like that attention, right. But additionally, it's like you're punishing yourself, right? I made a mention of this in my video I made yesterday that it was the only thing that made me feel something and have purpose. You know, especially because I was doing it while I was in the military, I was getting up at 4am doing an hour of cardio before work, a training session with a personal trainer before work, hour of cardio in the middle of my workday and an hour of cardio at night and it was the only thing that gave me purpose, because I didn't like my last job, even though I did do some cool stuff. I was miserable and this was the only thing I could just put my attention to. That made me feel something.

Speaker 1: 14:04

I'm going to give you a hard question. Send it Because it's something I've noticed, being in this industry for as long as I have been. Why do you think and I would say the number roughly has got to be 80% of people who are in the bodybuilding realm or even the fitness realm as a whole have underlying issues? To begin with, do you think there's any relationship for people you've met Like, as a good good example? Most trainers have some trauma early in life or they have addictive personalities right and those are the people that heavily get into that.

Speaker 1: 14:32

Why do you think there's a relationship there?

Speaker 2: 14:35

I think it's a connection and feeling something back from those that you work with, meaning, whether you're a big time influencer like you're, you're getting nothing but praise all the time and it feels good, right. But people that do have trauma, they might be missing that connection with people. And I think if you're doing personal training in person or even if you have clients that you do zooms with, you're actually making a connection when typically you would want to shut yourself in. So it's a medium in which you can connect with people and I think a lot of people gravitate towards that because it does feel good, right. But at the same time it's not fixing the trauma, the underlying issue. And I'll be the first to say I mean I was very big in the fitness industry and a lot of people have messed up past, a lot Myself, a lot of people I was associated with, and it's the same thing. There's drugs and alcohol involved, steroids involved, all the things involved in this. That it just is not a healthy mixture of things, especially for people with trauma.

Speaker 1: 15:43

Yeah, mixture of things, especially for people with trauma. Yeah, yeah, and I've noticed I mean even studies showing that the more you post a line about yourself, right the actually unhappy. You are right, that even relates to relationships. Yes, so the more you post about how much you love your spouse there's a huge correlation to that.

Speaker 2: 15:58

You're actually unhappy and actually see it day to day I am very guilty of that, um, and I even made a mention of this yesterday. Like I said in my video, I was like social media is toxic. It's not realistic. People are looking for a lot of people look for validation through it. It's not to say that people can't spread a really good message, share their life and help others, but, at the end of the day, a lot of people are looking for that dopamine hit.

Speaker 2: 16:24

I'm guilty of this. I mean, I ran two businesses online and it was nice. People would comment on my stuff, people would comment on my relationships, and it felt good. But then it went South for me and then I would. I I don't know, I never told you this, but when I went through a divorce, I would wake up to hundreds of death threats a day and I was like what? Like all I did was leave a relationship and why do you want? Like why should I die? Right? You know? Um, it's very frustrating, especially because I had a pretty big social media following, uh, when I was in the fitness industry, and it was frustrating because, like, I've helped so many people and people are just looking at this one little aspect of my life and making me out to be, like this, villain.

Speaker 2: 17:05

And it hurt, it sucked I mean that's people.

Speaker 1: 17:09

I always use politics as an example, not to get into it, but it's more just if I believe in the red team, everything the red team is great, everything sucks, right and then vice versa, right. People don't believe that two things could be true at once and I like explaining that to people like I. You know, I might not like your opinion on berries. You think they suck, I think they're amazing. But I could love your opinion on how to work out right, because everyone we're all humans, we all have good and bad yes and things that we like and things we don't enjoy about different people.

Speaker 1: 17:44

So you have to take that and change your persona and social media disappears. Oh, it's all or nothing on social media absolutely people have no middle ground whatsoever and I think that's what it.

Speaker 2: 17:56

It's unfortunate because there's a lot of good that comes from it. But I've seen a really dark side of it, especially my past, and that's why for me it's like I I don't really do much on there. I mean, I have my dog training business, but even my personal one it you know I don't post much about my personal life or anything like that, minus now to spread the message of you know, the experiences I just went through with my treatment I recently had.

Speaker 1: 18:22

Yeah, and I want to. I want to continue on just your story before we dive further ahead. But when you first got into the bodybuilding fitness world, I know that it must have been tough to bounce into an online community, learn it and then you went through some relationship struggles. How do you think the military aspect and the PTSD affected the way you were running your business in your previous marriage?

Speaker 2: 18:46

so I have no off switch. That was the the a good and a bad thing, meaning I had hundreds of online clients. I was doing nothing but emails and phone calls all day with everybody. It took away from my personal relationship because it was like I gotta got to work, I got to achieve financial freedom and nothing else mattered in my life besides training my clients online, going to the gym, eating all my meals, getting in all my water, taking all my supplements, and I didn't connect with the world. I shut everything out just to focus on whatever my task was, and it's good and bad, and for me a lot of people know this about me If I get into something that I like, I will become a professional in like a year Because I just dive into it and I love it so much and it's fulfilling for me that I want to be the best at it and that's that's a you know, like a ranger thing is like you just want to be the best at whatever you're doing, you're on a mission.

Speaker 1: 19:50

Yeah, the only thing you can think about is the mission.

Speaker 2: 19:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:52

You can't have outside thoughts, thinking about who's texting me or like that's it You'd set to accomplish it. So you train your brain to be focused, and the definition of focus is to have one task and no outside thoughts.

Speaker 2: 20:06

So they just trained that over and over and over again and applied it in that carried through, and I think that's a great point you bring up, because it's uh, it's something that people don't talk about is like especially my ability ability to disassociate from normal life and be Mike the ranger, not Mike Leal, and that that was a very difficult thing for me to separate until recently, because I lived that where it's. I didn't have time to think about anything else, especially if I was on mission, because if I made a mistake, someone to my left or right will die, and where I worked they expected perfection. You can be fired for the smallest infraction and sent back to the army, the regular army, for literally like nothing and it's very cutthroat. And you have to be this high level, high performer 24-7, 365. Because when you get on the battlefield there's no time to think about. Well, someone didn't like my facebook post. Oh, my wife is having trouble with the kids back home.

Speaker 1: 21:11

Like, if your mind is not focused on the mission, people die and it's a good and bad thing to have that skill yeah, and that's what a lot lies into underlying ptsd, because now you're going from extremely focused missionary-oriented mission to now normal day life where things don't need those extremes.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Yeah, I do want to tell this story because I've only told it one time my third deployment, where we lost a lot of guys. It was the craziest deployment for me as far as firefights and people dying. I went from holding one of ours his name's Sean Pesci, if anybody wants to look him up, one of our young FOs got shot 14 times and I went with him and his squad leader his name was Fletcher to the hospital to go see him my last day in country and I was holding his hand. He was in a coma, like his chest was cracked open, I mean bullet wounds everywhere, um, and I went from holding his hand to flying back home that day, pretty much non-stop from afghanistan to landing, being at home and, like now I have to deal with just normal life.

Speaker 2: 22:23

You know, and it's people don't like it's different for special ops, like we don't take like the the nice, like Delta flight home and you have this big welcoming, you land on your base, go, turn in your equipment and you go straight to your house. There's no like integration week, it's all right, you have to go start, you have a couple of days off and then you have jump week and your leave and you're jumping out of airplanes and you go on your leave. So it was a very difficult transition for me to go from combat people dying to and I gotta go home and deal with whatever my wife was dealing with at the time did you have reoccurring nightmares?

Speaker 2: 22:59

I don't. So that's a crazy thing. I I don't think about combat, I don't think about all the things I've seen and been through, um. I think I learned to just bury all of that um and I I've even mentioned this to people before. I forget sometimes what I did, like I did some crazy stuff in the military and it just doesn't register that it was even there. So you know. To get back to the thoughts, I don't have that A lot of my friends do. I did have issues when I first got out where I'd wake up screaming or like throwing fists, but that was only for like the first year after I got out, and then now I'm fine with that.

Speaker 1: 23:45

It's mind blowing man. Yeah, I always say I'm super thankful for those that serve, because it's something I don't think I ever could have done. So it just takes a special person to really go out and do it.

Speaker 2: 23:59

And it. That's the toughest part for me. And I'll say what I struggled with with my transition out was you're with what I call like I dub this, like immortals, like you're with other warriors that can kill, they can fight, and you feel invincible with them and you can depend on them, no matter what's going on. And I struggled with that when I got out of the military because I thought everyone else was like that and no, I was backstabbed, I was you name it. All the trust I would put into people, nothing like what a ranger buddy is what they call it would do for me. You know that was very tough no, definitely not.

Speaker 1: 24:43

That's just people in nature and something we learn yeah throughout life is you give people trust and stab in the back. Yeah, kind of deal, but there are people that can help you out and move you forward and that kind of takes you to the next step, like right, you were living in colorado previously, right?

Speaker 2: 24:59

um, so I lived in. I did live in colorado, um, uh. When I got out of the military, I went through what I would dub as a uh, very similar story amongst other veterans in my situation. I was married three times, divorced three times, um struggled with substance abuse. When I got out, um, I was drinking, uh, which I didn't like drinking. I didn't even really drink when I was in the military, like like my friends did, where it was like it was very common, like everyone drank, but I just didn't drink that much, especially because I was like into bodybuilding.

Speaker 2: 25:37

And when I started really struggling with my mental health going through these relationships, then I got addicted to cocaine. There's a picture of it in my last video I posted online where I lost 70 pounds from just doing cocaine every day and drinking. And then I would get sober, I'd be in a relationship and then, boom, it would happen all again and again and I didn't know what was wrong with me. And it wasn't. It wasn't that I was addicted to those substances, it was a coping mechanism for what I was struggling with mentally, with PTSD, and it was tough because I would people be like well, you're a drug addict, you're an alcoholic. I went to AA, I went to NA, I've even been to rehab. None of it can fix a damaged brain and that's what I didn't really take into account was my.

Speaker 2: 26:28

I had two TBIs from explosions and hitting my head in the military, but I never took it seriously. It was like, well, I'm a fucking ranger, like I don't, I don't feel pain. I was like I don't have time for that and I never took that seriously. It was like I don't have time for that and I never took that seriously. It was like I started accepting that. I was like, well, maybe I am a drug addict, maybe I am an alcoholic, and it just ate away at me. And eventually I ended up, you know, through relationships, moving to Colorado and then moving to Florida, but I just didn't know where you wanted to go with any of that stuff.

Speaker 1: 27:06

No, I think it's important. I mean especially like TVIs and rehab and going through that experience and I want to talk about that a little bit because I have some unpopular opinions and I want to get your opinion on it and then talk through rehab itself. Okay, so you went through AA, aa, you went through counseling yep I know you personally. I've done a lot of different stuff. Walk me through which ones you think helped, why they helped and which ones definitely didn't help and why you don't think.

Speaker 2: 27:41

I think it really depends on where you're at in life and, looking back now, the underlying issue is going to be whatever you're dealing with, trauma wise. I personally this is my own personal opinion I think a lot of substance abuse issues are unresolved trauma, substance abuse issues or unresolved trauma, and you can go to AA, you can go to NA, you can go to rehab. Whatever the case may be, if that trauma isn't resolved, those things are not going to do anything for you. I didn't. When I was in those, I was like well, I'm getting out, I'm just going to go do whatever when I get out, because it didn't fix anything.

Speaker 2: 28:23

You're in there with people that are like pissed off, they're in a clinic or they're, you know, they're at an AA meeting and they're like I just don't want to drink today and it's like again it's, they're struggling internally with something else. Can you be addicted to things? Absolutely. I went through heroin withdrawal. That was terrible. I went through alcohol withdrawal. That was terrible. I went through alcohol withdrawal. That was all terrible. I've been through a lot of those things.

Speaker 2: 28:50

But all of those programs, do they help people? Obviously they do, but for the majority, I think a lot of the mental health issues aren't targeted enough and those are not resolved and that's why a lot of people relapse and go back. I would say another big thing is the things they talk about, especially in those meetings is changing the people, places and things that you do that are associated with alcohol, drugs, whatever the case may be. A lot of people can't move from where they're at. A lot of people can't change some of the things in their environment. You know, maybe it's a spouse doing something, but, whatever the case may be, it's very difficult and I think that's why there's such a high level of failure in those things. And again, not to say it doesn't help people, because I know it does, but I would say overwhelmingly it doesn't address the true issue, which is probably some type of trauma.

Speaker 1: 29:43

I always compare it to weight loss drugs. Okay, and we talked about this previous right. So taking Ozempic Right Could help you lose weight, yeah, but what's going to happen? You're going to relapse because you didn't fix the underlying issue of your mental issue, which is food or lack of activity, whichever side it comes through.

Speaker 2: 30:01

But like you don't fix that underlying issue, which is daily, you're not going to keep it off do you want to hear my selling point for anybody that wants to get well in their life, health and wellness way?

Speaker 2: 30:10

sure I've always told this, I've told amanda this numerous times if you have a family, you love yourself, you love your kids, you love your grand kids, you love everyone in your life is it worth investing just a little bit into your health and wellness so you can spend more time with them? It doesn't matter if you're trying to lose weight, it doesn't matter if you're trying to put on muscle or take Ozempic and just be lean for your vacation. It's a mindset, lifestyle change to go. You know what I want to be around for my grandkids. I want to live as long as I can with my spouse.

Speaker 2: 30:46

It's not about being jacked, it's not about having abs, you know it's. It's longevity. And as I've gotten older and I've, you know, I go to the gym three times a week. I stay in pretty good shape because I eat right, I, I, I'm consistent on that front and I just do enough for health and longevity. But that's a selling point. I would always tell people that previous clients I had that it's not about the looks, the aesthetics, it's about the longevity.

Speaker 1: 31:16

You're buying time and you're buying experiences. I literally posted this yesterday.

Speaker 2: 31:21

Oh, check it off.

Speaker 1: 31:22

So I had a picture of my son on my shoulders and I got so fed up of people asking what the cost is. What's the cost? What's the cost? It's just like who gives a shit? You know you can go outside and work out for free, but do you do it? No, no. So the cost is whatever's going to get you to do it right whatever amount of money you need to spend, whatever program you need to join right that's what makes it worth it, for I was crawling around the floor last night with my son.

Speaker 1: 31:47

He's eight, nine months old. For those that don't know. If I was 100 points overweight, I couldn't do that. If I was broken, I couldn't. Like he was loving it. We're crawling under chairs. Yeah, like it was. It's an experience. I take him for walks, I carry him up and down the stairs, like those things you're not going to do. Then you're buying time. Like right, you mentioned being there for your kids watching the good older like you might not. Right, you don't take care of yourself. You could die at 50.

Speaker 1: 32:10

I've seen it absolutely so why not buy time with your spouse and buy time with your kids? And you buy that by spending money to get it healthy again absolutely.

Speaker 2: 32:21

And I think what gets lost in translation with this is I know you know this is people come to you, to when they're at like, hey, I'm diabetic or pre diabetic, I have these heart conditions, and it's like, well, are you willing to make a five degree shift to change your life? Right, that's don't understand, it's not much and there's no secret. Yes, ozempic exists. Yes, all these things exist, but it's very easy. It's the consistency of showing up to care about yourself a little bit with fitness of some type and just eating.

Speaker 2: 32:59

Right, it's not the pills, it's not the Ozempic. If you can commit to that, um, you'll be good. It's just people have a tough time making that transition and letting go and being like you know what, like maybe this, this does work, you know, and, um, it's tough to see, like I've, I feel bad because the easy green button is there now with those epic and things like that, but people don't realize that you still have to change what's up here or else those things don't matter long term well, let's talk about changing up in there, because I love that.

Speaker 1: 33:31

That's my favorite topic in the world. I am a firm believer and I see it because I talk to people all the time. The majority of people don't care. They have tired to diabetes, don't care, they have high blood pressure, don't't care, they're overweight, and I think that's a cultural thing that's been pushed. It's definitely changing now this year. But I've seen it with people where they brag about who's on insulin. It's like this isn't a joke, you're going to die. You're going to die a slow, painful death. Why are we all joking and pretending this is the norm? Why do you think that is? Why are we all joking and pretending this is the norm? Why do you?

Speaker 2: 34:05

think that is. I think that people, I think people struggle with identity and I think when those things do happen where they maybe they have they are diabetic, they are on all these drugs it's like, oh well, whatever, like, oh, I just got to take my shot, like, and it's accepted, and no one really gives them like the firm shaking of like hey, you're diabetic, like you might lose your leg, you might use your foot, you know you might lose your life, and people don't value it enough, unfortunately, because it's like, oh, I'm already at this point, whatever, it's too much for them mentally to make the change. And it's sad, like I've had lots of clients that are on insulin, metformin, like all the normal things that people get prescribed, and it's like, well, how do we get off this? Well, we just got to make that five-degree shift and want it for yourself, first and foremost, because if you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of everybody else in your circle it's totally true.

Speaker 1: 35:11

I mean, you even add that to something that always, always, internally bothered me. It's married men. Where I started, moved to a neighborhood, start making talk to your neighbors, you know yeah and they start talking about how, like I went to poker night once and my neighbor is like, oh, you know you have to come to poker. And we're there. I'm like, okay, whatever. He's like look at that hot chick. I wish my wife was that hot.

Speaker 1: 35:35

And he's going off on like this tangent about how he wants to get with this girl and I'm like I I hate, right that stuff yeah, because it kind of ties into the example of fitness of if you just confronted your wife and looked at your marriage, you couldn't make your marriage better, your wife better and yourself better. And this guy is your typical 50, 60 year old man who's got a giant beer belly. And I was like, well, why don't you start working out? He's talking about as fat as wife got. And I'm like, well, why don't you guys go to the gym together?

Speaker 2: 36:06

Right, I see that. I see that a lot. I've seen a lot, especially in my fitness career, because you're always looking for that next best thing and you're not looking at what's in front of you. And I'm very blessed to have my wife, who's helped me through all my struggles too with this stuff, where I'd be able to go to the gym, not go to the gym, you know, struggle with drinking, not drinking like she's. She stayed there through all this stuff and saw the good in me and things like that.

Speaker 2: 36:37

And you know, for me that was motivation. Even now, after my recent experience, it's like I want to be there for her and be able to, you know, be the husband she wanted, because I'm like, healed now and I don't look at other things. I don't look at things that way. I've never been like that where I'm like, well, that girl's hot or anything like that, because it's that never registered in my mind and, to be honest, and like I think now with culture it's just, oh, like it's easy to say these things but not look at like, hey, look, I have a wife, she does this for me, but I'm willing to so easily move on to the next dopamine fix.

Speaker 1: 37:19

It's basically what it is. Yeah, you ever hear the phrase honeymoon phase yeah, in a relationship.

Speaker 2: 37:22

You know why that is I'm sure it'd be something with like how much you know chemicals are released in your brain like oxytocin, dopamine it's all about oxytocin.

Speaker 1: 37:32

Oh yeah, when you see that person because, it's new, it's exciting. You get an oxytocin hit. It ends right around the two-year mark when most people break up. Yeah, right around the two-year mark Because all of a sudden you stop getting that hit when you see them.

Speaker 2: 37:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:48

So I've learned is like when that happens, it's okay. Maybe I just need to spice things up in my relationship my girlfriend or my marriage, whatever it is right and you can actually start re-bringing that back by making something new and exciting with that person. Yeah, got it so for sarah, and she pretends she hates this, but I always when I see her and I make a conscious effort to act like I haven't seen her in a long time.

Speaker 1: 38:16

So when I come home from work, yeah it's, I go up right away and I kiss her hello, yeah, and like that's those little things to bring that back and to bring that excitement back. Right now she gets a little more excited for me to come home and then I get excited to be around her. Yeah that's great, so it's a win-win on that and it ties into even weight loss and like why you start picking up certain habits. To go back to my neighbor, it's I disassociated with him after that instance.

Speaker 1: 38:44

I don't want to be a part of those people because I know life secret. The easiest way to do something is to hang out with people that do it.

Speaker 2: 38:50

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 38:51

So if I want to keep a healthy marriage, I need to hang out with people who have a healthy marriage, not hang out with people who have a healthy marriage that hang out with people who are talking about the next best thing. If I want to stay physically fit, it's easy for me to be a gym owner. To be physically fit, I'm around people like that all day.

Speaker 1: 39:03

Exactly so it all just correlates as to who you hang out with is what you become and to relate that back to yourself, you kind of saw that in your own fields, like the military, was very mission focused, hands-on, right relatable. Then he goes into fitness super addicting because you're around people that are doing the super addicting aspect of it.

Speaker 1: 39:22

As far as the bodybuilding taking to the extreme yeah I'm sure all the people that you did competitions with were all like that. Now you're all talking like how crazy are you with xyz? Right kind of deal. So it just takes those averages and really can make or break the individual. You are same with the alcoholism drugs which we hang out with the morality of things like.

Speaker 2: 39:42

I struggle with that, especially when I went through my um, my second divorce, um, I was around a bad group of people um, drugs, alcohol, other things I want to discuss and it challenged my morals and I couldn't be around a lot of it and I was like man, I didn't know people did this and you forget. There's a lot of weird stuff that people do in the world and you may not agree with and eventually that group dwindled down to just the you know the people that really mattered and that weren't like that but at the same time, like, if you surround yourself with that, you get wrapped in. That's where I was wrapped in, to drugs and drinking and all the other stuff I was getting into. But again it's. I gravitated toward that because it was the only thing that made me feel at that time and I thought that was happiness and pleasure. But now it's different, especially after treatment, like how I feel and what I love.

Speaker 2: 40:45

Your friend group is very important and the worst thing that happened with me, especially with PTSD, was I shut everybody out because I didn't want anyone to. I was ashamed of who I was shut everybody out because I didn't want anyone to. I was ashamed of who I was. I think that was the the biggest piece to this. Uh, the story is I didn't want anybody else to know. You know it was like my secret. You know a lot of people didn't know I was struggling um drinking especially. I moved up here, um I was on a lot of medication, um, we'll dive into that a little bit more, but it it was tough because I I hid that and I hid it from my friends, I hid it from my circle to just kind of be alone and not burden anyone.

Speaker 1: 41:21

Well, it's, yeah, you bury everything, right? Yes, you people want to help and you don't want them helping, but you want to figure it out yourself. But then you're struggling and you don't want people to feel bad for you.

Speaker 2: 41:41

And it's like no, no, I'm gonna take care of it. A good analogy I would say is especially, I would say, people struggling with ptsd. This is something I talked about with my my integration coach. Um, after my, my recent treatment I went through was I was an ice cube that was just melting away emotionally, physically, spiritually over the last 10 years, like before my treatment I had. I was at my last drop before just being completely gone and I feel like I've been reformed back in that ice cube. But I think people don't understand is it's? It's a slow death and it's miserable and it's painful in all aspects and as much as you want other people to help and help build you back up, um, you you just keep melting away and it didn't matter what other people did for me, um, it almost accelerated the process because I was embarrassed about it how would you know if someone has ptsd, like if I, if I were to use my story as an example, right like, how would I be able to say I suffer from PTSD or not?

Speaker 2: 42:36

Yeah, I'm not a physician, but I'm going to go off based off things I experienced and, like even my wife could point out, is what one big thing is everything like you can never settle down in situations, especially stressful situations. You're always catastrophizing things For me. I have a really bad habit of piling things up on semi, like hoarding in a sense, like I'll have a pile of random things here and a pile of random things here and it's just chaos and like that's like what's in my brain, avoiding a lot of things, not wanting to be around people, avoiding a lot of things, not wanting to be around people. Poor impulse control, because if you're struggling with those things, you're looking for something to just feel good, like quick fix. Doesn't matter what it is food, drugs, alcohol, porn, whatever it is. Whatever that fix is to feel something. I could see that manifesting there.

Speaker 1: 43:39

You know, impulse control is a big one, I would say too, especially for me. Yeah, it makes me you're making me like reflect back right and I never sat with a counselor, never sat with a psychiatrist, never anything like that. I, I think I suffered with ptsd because you mentioned like little specific things. Like for me specifically it was alcohol. Yep, I didn't, thank god, I didn't have an addictive personality like that was just not something that was innate about who I am, but I've that and other issues like I just felt myself constantly trying to get that sense of happiness right and one little tiny thing if it went wrong would set me off right, right, the world's ending.

Speaker 2: 44:15

That's it, that's the best way to describe it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:17

And I have no idea how I got past. I don't feel any of that anymore, Like that is, it's all gone. I have issues remembering things but I don't know if that's CTE related, whether from my concussions, or if that's just trauma I blocked out. Like I physically like when I sit here and think I have one memory from third grade and then nothing until sixth grade. Okay, that's insane for most people. I talked to my wife and she's like I remember when I was like four years old. I was like how the fuck do you remember four years old?

Speaker 2: 45:00

So I want to hit on that. That's how I was up until my recent treatment. I couldn't remember what I did the day before that morning. I forgot everything about my past.

Speaker 1: 45:08

It my speech started getting really but it was day of, wasn't it? What do you mean? So like, for example, today, you forgot yesterday but like I couldn't remember anything Like it.

Speaker 2: 45:17

Just, I would get really frustrated and I would tell Amanda, like I'm like I can't remember anything, like what is wrong with my brain. We would start writing stuff down and I then I would get pissed because I couldn't even remember to write stuff down, um, and my speech was getting really bad, like the fact that I can do this right now. You should see all the videos I recorded prior to my recent treatment when I was for clients with dog training. I'm stuttering, I'm blanking out, I couldn't remember anything. I'm definitely going to share this stuff eventually, but I think, as your brain has been damaged or is going through, whatever it's going through, if it's not healed, that's when you reach that spot where it's like, well, I can't remember this and that kind of catastrophizes, things and whatever you're doing during the day, like crap, like what do I do here? Like, and it just starts building up, building up, because you keep forgetting things. So that's just my personal experience no, it's, it's very it.

Speaker 1: 46:14

It's cool because we can get into the healing part right. So, for me personally. I think it took to a mental breakdown I had when I was dating my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time. We were dating for about two and a half years, we were fighting a lot and I had this giant I just called it a quarter-life crisis. I no joke laid on her apartment floor and stared at a ceiling fan for four and a half hours.

Speaker 1: 46:38

that sounds insane retrospecting looking at myself doing that because I just had no idea what I was going in life or what I was doing and I was just lost in this chaos of unnecessary shit and wasn't making a name for nothing I felt, lost and coming out of that, I said I need to just start from scratch.

Speaker 1: 46:59

I broke up with her and I left everything, everything I didn't want to talk to. I said I'm starting over and I'm rebuilding my life. Eventually I realized that sometimes you push away the people that matter most to you and six months later begged for her to go back out with me, but as a new person like we never felt like that again.

Speaker 2: 47:20

Like that was all me, but that as and you bring up a good point that I've I've explained your situation to a lot of people in my life that it's tough to go through something like that, but it helps the situation, especially not only for yourself, which is the priority, but if you're in a relationship to bring yourselves back together at a point where you are meshing and you're not doing this all the time. I've done it before, um, and it was very successful, but then, because of my tbis, then it would just go downhill. But now I'm at this point where I've gone through it, especially with Amanda. That it's very overwhelming because I haven't felt this connection or felt this way and have been calm and emotionally attached with her since my treatment happened and I had to go through that rebuilding and letting go of who I was and the thing like the trauma things I was going through to be at this point. So you bring up a good point.

Speaker 1: 48:19

That's a very good thing for people to go through, but it is very difficult yeah, I I stress like for myself and I talk about me getting over like my major depressive disorder right and rewiring my brain. And I think that's important. It wasn't like I rewired my brain, it was repetitive practice a thousand times a day for months, right to get my brain to start firing differently, to have different circuits, and I already proved myself I could do that back then and then it was easy to replicate later in my life because I knew how to rewire and get myself to think differently and be a different person. And I've talked to sarah and I've talked to a lot of people in my life and I'm always like, yeah, you can get over depression.

Speaker 1: 49:00

I don't believe every single person that they can get over being depressed, anxiety. I think everything's, to a sense, curable, but how the hell do you teach it? That's what I've always struggled with when you go to counseling, because I never went that route. That's what I've always struggled with when you go to counseling, because I never went that route Traditionally. How were they trying to teach you to get over something like that? Where does medicine take you? And then, on the flip side of that, is it even possible for me to teach people the practice I did?

Speaker 2: 49:31

That's a great point. So I'll use my experience for this. Right before I moved up here to Long Island, I was on a bunch. I got diagnosed with bipolar disorder because they were like all these things that you're experiencing is bipolar disorder and they get. The VA gave me antipsychotics and I started taking those because I was like, oh well, I guess this is what I am Right. And I was like, okay, I felt good for a little bit after the first, like few months, and then all of a sudden it was like a nightmare and I was taking the medication. Then it was well, now you got to take more. I was like, well, what does that solve? Right? And then it was meeting with people you know social workers, therapists, whatever, to talk about my issues. But every time I'd go in there like, well, you need to take more medication, right.

Speaker 2: 50:23

A lot of the speaking points they talk on specifically like, hey, creating new habits, you know, if you're feeling this way with something, take a step back, take a breath, do this right. But some people are so broken inside that that's they can't physically do it. There was people would tell me when I was extremely suicidal, like, just go out for a walk, you think I'm gonna go for a walk, like I'm out here, like I'm drinking myself to death, like I'm, you know, in the depths of hell mentally, and you think I want to go outside and walk, like you know. Did I do it? Absolutely? Did it do anything? No, so I think it's different for everyone.

Speaker 2: 51:04

Whatever that little shift is and repetitive new behaviors, but a good point that you can get from, like an NA or AA meeting, is just making it to the next minute. What do I need to do to make it to this minute now, the next hour, the next day, for whatever you're struggling with and that you know? That applies to drinking and drugs in that context. But setting small goals and achieving them, those are the little victories that will add up, that can potentially change your mindset, especially if you were going through things I was like I need to work at doing this for my business or this for myself or whatever the case may be. Those benchmarks and working towards that goal is what kept your mind off of the other things that were.

Speaker 1: 51:47

Do you know why? Why they do that.

Speaker 2: 51:51

No.

Speaker 1: 51:52

Really cool. I actually talked about this yesterday with an employee. Because I love. I mentioned this a lot on this show, but I think it's so important. The easiest way to get someone happy is get them within 90% of reaching a goal. You get the biggest dopamine hit before you hit a goal.

Speaker 2: 52:09

So you see professional athletes all the time. Same in dog training. Same in dog training, yes.

Speaker 1: 52:13

So you look at professional athletes right, they're at the championship game and they go in. The best feeling in the world is shooting that basket, make it, buzzer goes off. What always happens with athletes after that they crash. Yeah, super depressive, because once the goal gets achieved, they don't have anything further to go for. It's extremely commonlympics because, like it's not reoccurring like professionals, like baseball or football is. So they just get super depressed once they make it because the whole lives has been hit, this one goal right and it just goes and that goal doesn't get pushed forward.

Speaker 1: 52:49

So when you have things like aa, like drinking, you said first do a minute and now you push the minute to a day right, and you're slowly pushing that frame further and further and further ahead. And every time you get really close to hitting it you get a super dopamine hit and you're like, wow, this is great, exciting. And then you have to make sure you push it again, otherwise you're going to lapse and fall back. The second you succumb to it and go oh well, it's like, okay, I'm good now.

Speaker 2: 53:16

That's when you're going to laugh. I want to bring up, that's why people keep doing bodybuilding shows.

Speaker 2: 53:23

It's the prep posting online. Hey, look at me, me, me, look at all this hard work. And then it happens it happened to me. You do your show and you're like you binge, you get out of shape, you don do anything. Is that? There's no, there's no good feelings anymore with it. It was that anticipation and the dopamine hit from all that hard work. But then you do the show and you're on stage for two minutes. You get last place and you're like oh crap, um. But yeah, uh, I'm trying to think what. I don't know what you want, a direction you want to take with. It's just good, because I just like the fact that that's kind of exactly what there's meetings. But yeah, I'm trying to think I don't know which direction you want to take with.

Speaker 1: 53:56

It's just good because I just like. The fact that that's kind of exactly what these meetings are doing is exactly the same thing I've been preaching forever. It's just move the goalpost Like. I always use the example for the gym right. First it was get to a certain benchmark of gross, then it was certain locations and now I'm so good at goals. Now I'm thinking billion dollar a year company and I'm only half a percent way there.

Speaker 2: 54:19

But it doesn't matter that goal is so astronomical.

Speaker 1: 54:23

I'm going to get happier and happier and happier the closer I get to it, but it's big enough. It will last my lifetime, so it's always going to keep me satiated and happy. You bring that back to the point of is it possible beyond that to make a permanent shift? So maybe you don't need the goal setting? I don't know, and this is this is tough. So like I'm going to take the suicide for myself, for example, me deciding not to kill myself was a shift that if I'm not going to do it, I need another, another answer. Right, got it. I didn't turn to things as a coping mechanism. Instead it was I'm not going to pussy out Like that's it. I'm not doing this, I'm doing something else.

Speaker 2: 55:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:07

And that's where I feel like a lot of people don't get it, where they can't fix it themselves, because they just reach for something else to distract them. Or they're reaching for a substance, or they're putting the problem onto somebody else. They don't make a decision and say, well, no, I fucking have to do something else because I'm not doing this. If that makes sense, how do you teach that? Or is it just not teachable?

Speaker 2: 55:32

The person has to want it. It's almost similar to like people hitting rock bottom and whatever they're at in life. It's that struggle to rebuild yourself is what makes you that new person, or whatever the case may be. And some people don't go through it. They're comfortable being very uncomfortable and where they're at because they're afraid to make that five degree shift, um, and I don't again, it's. Everyone has their own way of getting through it. You may not get it now, you may get it later, but I don't think you can teach it. Someone has to want it bad enough and to truly love themselves enough to to be able to do that.

Speaker 1: 56:17

Yeah, yeah, I really don't have any other response to that. I think you're right, so I kind of dive that into now. What are the other forms of treatment? So what does traditional medicine give you when you go to the doctor?

Speaker 2: 56:30

When I went to the VA with all of my symptoms, it was oh, you're bipolar, you have PTSD, which I was diagnosed with before I got out of the symptoms. It was oh, you're bipolar, yeah, ptsd, which I was diagnosed with before I got out of the military, not bipolar. I had PTSD and a TBI diagnosed before I got out of the military, but I wasn't on medication. So, with my symptoms, of everything I was experiencing, they were like, well, you need to be on antipsychotics because you're bipolar, you have these ups and downs. So that's what I took. Mind you, they just gave me medication. They were like off you go.

Speaker 2: 57:02

I had no idea what I was supposed to do, what I was going to be experiencing, and it just trapped me in my head. I was not only a prisoner inside my head, I was a prisoner in my home. It was hard for me to leave my home because the medication was giving me such bad I think the best word or term is like agoraphobia, of like being outside, Like when I first moved here, they just up my medication and I started having a tough time just going outside. Or if I go to the grocery store, it'd take me an hour to get out of the car Because I didn't even want to open the door, because it just felt like everyone was watching me. I was so paranoid it was causing crazy paranoia for me too, which really sucked, um. But you know, with medication now, it doesn't address the underlying issue. Especially for me with my TBI. The medication doesn't address the underlying issue, especially for me with my tbi. The medication doesn't fix my brain.

Speaker 1: 57:58

Um, and that that was the most frustrating part about the what I was prescribed so you get these antipsychotics, you go back to the doctor, you tell the doctor you're getting super paranoid. What happens?

Speaker 2: 58:09

next I'm gonna tell a pretty sad story. So I was on my third medication, I believe, and I told my wife I was like I am not going to make it. I would never have been this suicidal in my life. I did try taking my life when I did live in Colorado. I was in a psych ward for a while at the peak of the PTSD and TBI stuff going on. But I was like I am.

Speaker 2: 58:33

At that point I went to the VA. A nurse or some type of worker brought me back to one of the rooms. I was in tears. I'm like I'm going to kill myself. This medication is killing me. I don't want to live. The worker started booking a sandals vacation on the phone while I'm in there with her. She's giving this person her credit card number. I am in tears, like wanting to die in this room and she was asking me some questions doing the phone and then she goes like this to me to pause me while I'm talking to her so she could give that person information. I lost it. I went off on everybody the supervisor, I ripped that dude into shreds and I went in my car and.

Speaker 2: 59:28

I cried my eyes out. I was like I just want someone to help me and I remember calling my you know life coach therapist at the time, who's been through very horrible things at the VA as well, and I was just crying. I was like I can't, I'm not gonna make it like no one wants to help me. And that's when I actually came off all the medication and really got into dog training at that point. But I was still having those ups and downs. So that's my experience with the medication piece.

Speaker 1: 1:00:02

I've heard horror stories out of the VA.

Speaker 2: 1:00:04

It's it is such bad care for veterans and for those like when you talk to, like when I talk to other medical professionals are like I don't know how you do it there. It's so bad and it's rampant. It's unfortunate. It's like I sacrifice, not just me. A lot of veterans sacrificed a lot of their life for the military and went through some horrible, crazy experiences, and to not get good care coming home it sucks. You feel left behind. It's why a lot of veterans struggle. Because you're like well, why would I even go here?

Speaker 1: 1:00:40

like I'm supposed to get taken care of and you're just, there's no connection there with you I feel like every politician, both sides, comes out and always talks about doing more for the military yeah I never see a translation can I bring up a point?

Speaker 2: 1:00:53

so I I this will come up later, but I am starting my own nonprofit for the treatment I just went through recently. But I brought this up in a conversation. I was like everyone sees the Wounded Warrior Project advertisements on TV, right, hey, it's literally an ASPCA commercial for veterans. Oh, this guy lost his legs, he lost his arms. We built him a home, which that is great, and I'm not taking away from doing it for one veteran. There's 40 veterans killing themselves a day. They had to just redo the numbers recently. 40 veterans are committing suicide a day and we are focused on the 0.01% and one of the biggest. Uh, I think they are for profit, I can't remember but, um, but we're missing everything else. And we're focusing on this because it it brings emotion to people, but they're not seeing the 40 others that are killing themselves, ruining their lives, their families, their relationships. And that is what is frustrating, like we're so focused on this when we're missing the bigger picture.

Speaker 1: 1:02:02

I couldn't agree more. I feel like veterans are left out in the dust all the time.

Speaker 2: 1:02:06

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:07

And be prioritized different things. I want to use the VA as a specific example the medical psychs. I know the way the doctors work. They pay them like shit and you're going to offer a doctor a shitty salary. Most people the good doctors are going to be like why would I want to work at the VA then if I could go make six times private? So now what's going to happen is they're going to go private and they're going to only be able to give health care to those that are wealthy enough to afford it, where the veterans don't have that kind of finances. So the federal government running the va is ultimately doing a disservice for our veterans and keeping people employed that are booking sandals vacations, because those are the people that are going to take that low of a wage job.

Speaker 2: 1:02:47

And the one thing that frustrated me I can't remember the name of the, the newest, uh va secretary, but um, they're like oh, we built this brand new hospital and it's like no one cares, like no one's taking care of the veterans, like there's I just had another ranger buddy two nights ago kill himself. So I was, I was with and it's like those are the guys that need the help, especially in special operations. A lot of people don't realize like there's only about 3 500 rangers at any given time like active and they do like 90 of the fighting overseas. It's like people don't understand that dynamic and when they come home and there's you know nothing available to them and you have this type of VA care, you think they care about a new hospital. No, they need help just surviving day to day life and that's what's frustrating. You know, that's why I'm creating what I'm creating to help other other other veterans. But but the medication piece, like I said, that's that's where I ended up with this, and obviously there's more.

Speaker 1: 1:03:55

But I want to hear yeah, so you got into the dog training which I know personally. That's kind of how you and I met up, and obviously your, your wife, working for me, yep, but that all tied in, what was that ultimate decision? Because, yeah, like that drove you to say, okay, I'm going to Mexico okay, so we'll get.

Speaker 2: 1:04:14

We'll get to that piece. So I got into dog training because I ended up getting a dog from one of my buddies, eric Innes. He runs Coastline Canine down in Florida and when I was going through I just got out of the hospital you know being suicidal and things like that I lost my. I lost my online training business. My car got repossessed and, for people to know, I was living in a very expensive condo. I just bought a brand new G-Wagon and I was eating out of a veteran's soup kitchen.

Speaker 2: 1:04:45

Within three months I lost everything in my life and he helped me get a dog and that is what got me into dog training. I lived with him for a while. Everything in my life got repossessed. I had no money, I had nothing, but I had a dog and that's what drew me into dog training from personal training and, you know, bodybuilding, all that other stuff and that's what I focused on until I moved up here and you know that I went through all the stuff at the VA while I was up here.

Speaker 2: 1:05:18

I became a dog trainer up here for normal obedience and pet dog stuff and started my own business and then, through that process, I was still struggling with the depression or PTSD, and that's why I did ketamine treatment first and that that saved my life, because I didn't want to live. I was like I am dying every day. I am that, that melting ice cube and it it stopped all those bad feelings. It worked. I've never I haven't been that depressed, but I had no connection with the world. It was it's a, it's a dissociative, so it. I didn't feel like Mike Leal, I just felt like I was in a video game controlling me from a distance. And that's what I was struggling with with the most, because I couldn't be emotional, I didn't have empathy and all I could do was train dogs and focus on dogs and I ended up signing.

Speaker 2: 1:06:14

My one of my buddies was on Sean Ryan show, cody Alford. Him and I have been friends for years and he went to Ambio Life Sciences in Mexico and did Ibogaine and 5-o d, 5meo, dmt to help with his tbi and his ptsd. And after seeing that, joe rogan episodes about it and more sean ryan episodes. Sean ryan went through it as well and one of his buddies was there. When I was down there I was like I have, like I have to get this done because I want my life back, so that's what I just recently did was it nerve-wracking reaching out talking about it?

Speaker 1: 1:06:52

or was you at the point like I, I was tried everything, anything I was like I just I was like I went into this.

Speaker 2: 1:06:58

I was like I want my life back. I deserve to live, I deserve a quality of life. I watched all my friends I actually have had a few military friends go through it and it literally saved their lives. They were literally going through the same thing I was going through and, um, I, I just made that decision and went and that's why I just got back on saturday yeah, super, super fresh yes so where was it in mexico?

Speaker 1: 1:07:25

what did the experience show like when? When you showed up? That would be all the questions I would have, cause you're going to a foreign country.

Speaker 2: 1:07:30

Yeah, so, um, the houses that Ambio have um, are just across the border in Tijuana. It's about like a 30 minute drive from the San Diego airport. So it was actually really easy going in and out of Mexico, which was great but which is great. But you're in a good spot. You're on the beach it's really nice to have some pictures of it but you're there with a group about there's supposed to be 11, but only nine made it and there's a bunch of medical staff there.

Speaker 2: 1:08:02

You have your coach, your coaches there as well that have been through the experience of both Ibogaine and DMT, and it's very well monitored. It's not like there's a lot of like retreats where it's like very, you know, like underground, I guess you could say. But this is medically supervised. They have a lot of staff on hand nurses, doctors and things like that to make sure that the treatment is good for you. You got to do an EKG before you go. I did blood work as well. My blood work was great, but, yeah, it's monitored very well and the staff was just absolutely incredible. I'm going to dive deeper, but I wanted to see if you had any other questions.

Speaker 1: 1:08:44

It makes me happier. It's right over the border. Yeah, because you know they're pulling from us residents yeah, to work there like nurses, doctors. Yeah, I'm sure it was. Didn't feel like you're showing up to the cartel, right, right, and they have all ak-47s yeah, you're walking, you're like where the hell am I? Yeah, like that's what you think about when you think about these specific yeah, yeah so it's a group of people. Did you get to talk and hang out with the other people going through the treatment?

Speaker 2: 1:09:08

Yeah, so that was the great part is everyone's there. You meet at a hotel and it's so funny looking back because everyone's there and they have just this blank stare. All of us had it. It's very similar. It's like you're lost in your head, you're lost in your thoughts and you're just waiting for some healing. And there's a lot of group talk, like group circle talks. You know you meet together.

Speaker 2: 1:09:34

The first thing we did when we got to the house was we shared all of our stories and, man, like there's a couple military guys there, joe, the head for the retreat. He was an ex-Special Forces and Delta Force operator and I felt like such a good connection with him because we have a very similar background and places we've been and things we've done. So that made me feel very comfortable and we shared all of our stories, including Joe's story, and Joe resonated with me because we both started losing our mind. You know he did a lot of combat. He was a medic in delta force and you know went through a lot, lost a lot of um people would call like battle buddies, um dogs that are on his deployment. You know military working dogs and that stuff can be traumatic. Um, and it came out at the end of his career and I was like that's just like me.

Speaker 2: 1:10:29

I felt that with him and everyone had their own things sexual trauma, addictions. It was a good mix, right. But they do have different houses tailored to specific things like trauma and things like that. In one house, a lot of the disabilities, like I said, ms and Parkinson's. At another house things like that.

Speaker 2: 1:10:57

If you do have some type of substance abuse issue, they do a whole different program for you, like to detox and things like that. So that made me feel really good and you know, all of our stories were great. It was nice to see people come out of their shells because you could tell they were so broken and it was nice to like. I felt like that because I don't like talking to people and I was just diarrhea of the mouth because I bottled in so much, and to have someone there that's been through the same experiences as me, I was just like let it out and it felt so good because I I missed human connection and you feel like you got to experience that because you're around people that went through similar things, that you see a little more sense of connection with them right yeah like a really cool, not cool.

Speaker 1: 1:11:40

I don't know why I said cool, interesting would be. You associate with people and you feel more of a connection than when you both experience trauma.

Speaker 1: 1:11:48

Trauma is the world's biggest connector with people, above everything else, which is so crazy to say out loud. Right Like you, just feel this total sense of like. I really understand this because they went through the exact same scenario I did, but, going into the treatment that you did, I haven't heard of any of it until we spoke literally 10 minutes ago. So, this is all new to me, and I'm sure it's new to a lot of other people out there. Exactly what are you taking? What is it? Where does it come?

Speaker 2: 1:12:19

from Got it. So I'll start with Ibogaine first. It comes from what's called the Iboga root and it's classified a little different in the psychedelic realm. I believe you know some for some of the things that we're talking to us about, because a lot of psychedelics are dissociative. This one is not. It is very out of body or I'd say inner body that's a bad word to say. It's more inner body that it works on and I'm going to use the study that you and I talked about first to kind of talk about that before I get into the treatment aspect of it.

Speaker 2: 1:12:54

But the there was a group of 30 special operations operators that went through this program. They had was what was it? Tbis, ptsd, some had substance abuse issues as well and they did scans of their brain, obviously blood work, things like that. That whole group went through the treatment of Ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT. All of their brain scans came back completely healed from all of their TBIs, as if they never happened. Completely healed from all of their TBIs um to as if they never happened, as well as reversed age their brain by about one to five years. And some of the guys that went through the program Joe, who was the head down there for my trip. He was one of those original guys that went through and is actually. His wife is a neuroscientist that's working on this as well, so it's really cool that he has that um in his life, but it helps repair all the broken pieces in your brain.

Speaker 2: 1:13:53

I'm going to talk about my experience with it. They give you a dosage of Ibogaine. It's in a pill form. It's four pills within an hour. I want to say it is and the last pill they do with like honey and it's cracked open, so it's like hits you like that.

Speaker 2: 1:14:10

But after we took all the pills, we went in and there's a nice big yoga room downstairs and there's beds set up with the EKG and what was it? Ivs to make sure you're still hydrated, and they hook you up to everything. You start laying down on your beds. There's a music playing. It's very intense. I forget the name of it, but sounds like like a big rubber band getting strung very hard and there's mirrors there to like look at yourself while the experience is about to happen or is happening.

Speaker 2: 1:14:49

I just wanted to ride this thing, so I was like I'm putting my mask on and laying down, and that's what I did, and one of the things they tell you that's going to start happening is you're going to start having clicking sounds in your brain and really crazy feelings in your brain. Brain and really crazy feelings in your brain. And, man, that was the most incredible part is, once the medicine hit, I could feel the clicking start in both parts of my brain, back here and then up here in the front, from the side of my head to the front of my head, and it felt like a rush of electricity and warmth and healing. Through that whole process it felt like just pops, like it was almost like someone was plugging pieces of my brain back in and turning them on. That started happening and I laid down on that bed. I put the blindfold over my face and my eyes are closed, just like this, and computer screens just literally appeared in front of my face with a bunch of numbers, very vibrant colors, the apple calculator that's like black and orange. That popped up and it was like splattered in different paint colors of black and white. I will remember this number because it was just in my head from that experience. It was 1,219,800. It kept popping up. I don't know why. Maybe I'm going to find out what that means later in my life Hopefully it's in my bank account, but that kept popping up and then, once those finished in the visuals it started becoming pictures of my wife and I and it was exactly everything I needed. It I felt so connected. It made me miss her.

Speaker 2: 1:16:34

Um, it was a lot of pictures, like I was telling you before, of like our wedding. Um, it's not, it wasn't like a full on picture, like a photograph you could see, but it was the outlines of everything and you can make it out in detail, but it was. I just remember vividly. It was blue horizontal lines, um, and you know I saw us in it. And then, um, a lot of those pictures came through, pictures of family, people that passed away, um, and it was very beautiful.

Speaker 2: 1:17:01

Um, I only had two instances where it was. I had dark entities come through, um, where it was like a dark face trying to push through like a like saran wrap. That's the best I guess you could say it. But, um, like I described earlier, like you can kind of control it, so I would skip that and go to something else, and whatever popped up was random. So you know, good things that keep coming up. And then I finally faced the two dark entities and that they just looked around and then disappeared. That those visuals lasted about an hour and a half to two hours, I want to say. And then, once that was done, it was just being stuck inside my head with the healing. Everyone was throwing up nearby and I wasn't throwing up yet the last pill, I think, that was in my gut exploded and burst open and it felt like I want people to envision this. It was like flowers of, like green and white energy just shooting through my whole body and it was like the most overpowering healing feeling I could imagine. And that's when I started throwing up. So my, my experience lasted a little bit longer than everybody else. I was like the second to last person to leave the room once everything was done.

Speaker 2: 1:18:20

But you go into what's called like a taxia, where you don't have control over your limbs very well. There's people down there to help you, bring you to the bathroom and, uh, make sure you're good because you can't walk. This is not a party drug like you never want to. Just no, there's no, there's no joy out of the experience after, I promise you. So um, once that whole um was done, you go through what's called a gray day and you are so drained. I was in bed for like 24 hours after that. It was nice because my bed overlooked the beach, but you're drained, you're still kind of dizzy, but it was such a healing moment because it just felt like everything inside of me was just flushed out, like physically, mentally and spiritually, and like the the slate was clean and my brain was healed, like I could feel the healing that happened through that. Um, any questions on that?

Speaker 2: 1:19:20

no, I think it's wild okay so once that gray day was done, I did did go through a Reiki session after. Believe me, I'm one that's like, yeah, that stuff's BS Definitely made an impact. I could feel the energy, the healing it was like heat almost of the person doing it to me. Even though it's touchless they're not touching you I could feel the energy moving around me. Um, as they were doing it and I remember I was still kind of tripping out from the ibogaine so I'd be laying back and then, like jerk back up, they'd have to grab my head and pull me back down, but it was. It felt really good. I felt good after. So, definitely interested. If someone does that, I would definitely do it again.

Speaker 2: 1:20:06

But once that was complete, then the next day was 5-MeO-DMT man. This was what I was looking forward to the most and the most nervous about. The original molecule comes from the back of a frog, from its sweat glands, so that's how people would discover what it did. They have now been able to synthesize it, so you don't have to obviously make a toad be stressed out to get the DMT off of it. But this was the one I was most looking forward to and they brief you on what's going to happen. You inhale it through a vaporizer and they tell you in the beginning like some people will scream they might get violent, like you. Like different things happen. Everyone's different. You know through the experience. But to be open and let the medicine do its thing. So they said if you do, you get two doses. You're going to know if you need the second dose. That's what they said they're like, you're going to know.

Speaker 2: 1:21:15

So I went down, I went second in my group and the first person came up. That was like I could tell it was a lot for them and I was like I was a little nervous but I was like, no, I've got to ride this out. So I went down and I did my first hit and I laid back and it was very peaceful, very mild visuals on the side. I could tell they were holding me down, whether it was my wrist and my chest on that one. And then I came back and I was like, oh, I need that second one. I took the biggest hit of this thing. I went, I sucked that thing down and you count, you put your blindfold over or your mask and you count back from 10 and they lay you back on the mattress. I hit that mattress and I explained this before.

Speaker 2: 1:22:06

It was like I went and I was meeting God. It was the most beautiful sound, this angelic tone. It just sounded like angels, just a tone that only like an angel or something spiritual could produce the most beautiful amazing colors. The most beautiful amazing colors. Like if you took my consciousness and brought it down to a single focal point of like a pin, I could see, like the galaxy and what, like every emotion of happiness, love, joy, excitement that has eluded me for the last 10 years. Every breath I took filled me up with that. I could feel it literally pulsing into my hands, like head to toe.

Speaker 2: 1:22:52

I'm like I'm getting like goosebumps about it now, because I remember how that feeling was and it was like filling my soul and my life, my life force, back into me and I was just taking these massive breaths and I could feel them holding my arms down and I just felt so happy and I was like, oh my God, I like thank you, you know it's whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:23:12

If you have a higher power, whatever your belief system is like, this is going to let you know they exist For sure. As I was coming back to consciousness, I remember grabbing my chest and I was crying so hard and sobbing Like I've wanted to feel this for the last 10 years of my life, and I feel love, I feel joy and it was very overwhelming, very overwhelming and very healing, which was the most important part I know. It healed all those broken parts of me. And for those of you don't know, dmt is only released in your body when you're born and when you die. So this, what they call is the God molecule, resets your whole system and when I tell you I feel, I feel completely reset, like I began, flushed me out. The dmt filled my soul and spirit back to how I feel now, which is amazing explain how you feel almost a week later my mental clarity is as if I was in high school.

Speaker 2: 1:24:23

I had a really tough time with stuttering and my speech and memory. That has made me feel really good to be able to actually articulate things and talk. I haven't been able to do this for years and that would give me anxiety and be depressed about it. Right, I feel a connection with my wife like I love her, I want to be with her. Nothing we're doing is stressful, like even going out and walking the dogs. I'm like like man, like my knees hurt, like I stress about it, like I enjoy doing things. Now I feel like a human being and I'm happy. I'm smiling. I was smiling on the car ride over here. I'm gonna smile on my way home, you know, and all of the things that I was struggling with are gone and I know, like you know, some people like well, it's probably the high of it or no, like I feel, like I was, you know, a freshman in high school and like I'm experiencing the world and learning and it's great and it.

Speaker 2: 1:25:21

After this experience. I had two goals for it, like my intentions going in, and one was to feel love again and to be open and to love life and love myself specifically, and I feel that my second was I want a direction in what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. I love working with dogs, I love helping people, but now this pushed me in a direction. Like I am, I am willing to put my dog training business on the back burner to go help other veterans go through this, because I don't want them to struggle like I did for 10 years. So that's kind of what the medicine did for me. Some people do go back for follow-up sessions every couple years or annually, depending on what they want. You know how you can go whenever, but for me it's like I don't have a desire to go back and do it. They said like the medicine will call you back when you, when it's time.

Speaker 1: 1:26:13

But my goal is to get as many people through this as possible, especially veterans in the community that I was from and how do you expect to help get the veterans there, like what's the ultimate play to help bring them into the life and direct them?

Speaker 2: 1:26:34

There's a lot of nonprofits that exist to help veterans go down there and pay for their trip. The most expensive part is going down there. It's anywhere between $6,500 and $10,000 for a trip, depending on where you go. There's two main spots that do it. Excuse me, I want to start a nonprofit, which I already submitted all my paperwork to an attorney today. With all the donations from that, we have an investment strategy to keep refunding the whole nonprofit in perpetuity without having to take more donations to try to get more people through over time. So that's kind of how I set it up and I have the whole financial plan there, because you know me, I'm a nerd with investments in crypto and things like that.

Speaker 1: 1:27:17

Why not tie it into your dog business though?

Speaker 2: 1:27:20

Great. So the second part to the nonprofit would be helping veterans become dog trainers Through some of my other friends my buddy at Coastline Canine, eric. He actually got approved for vocational rehab, which is like you know how veterans can use their GI Bill to go to college and they get like a housing allowance right. He has that so that if you move down there and want to go train dogs with him you would get paid to work there and your housing allowance for three or four years, whatever it is, but giving giving veterans the opportunity to do something where there's some type of goal, something like a way to take care of yourself and a dog so if I was a veteran listening to this right, how?

Speaker 1: 1:28:03

how would I get a hold of you to get help?

Speaker 2: 1:28:07

Right, well, big thing is like you can follow me on social media, you can email me, whatever you know my stuff will be up. I'm sure I'll give you the links and things like that. But I went through Ambeo Life Sciences for my treatment. If someone just was like, hey, I need to do this treatment, there's a bunch of nonprofits that do help. I know Vets is one of them, sisters in Arms is another, and one of my friends that just went through her treatment. She gave me a whole list so I'll give that to you once we leave. But if someone wants to get ahold of me, dm me, facebook, message me, whatever the case may be, because I know like this is my calling and I've longed to help people again and if wants to talk, they can talk. I had two people call me yesterday. They're like I need to do this treatment, this is what I'm going through, and I was like all right, like you know, here's what I know. You know, hopefully my information helps you and you make that decision yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:29:03

Where do you think the future is for this treatment? Where do you think it's headed?

Speaker 2: 1:29:08

So here's my thing with it. It's you know, the other thing we need to talk about was, like a substance abuse issues and how this helps with that. Some of the stories they talked about where people were been on 50 to 80 Oxycontin a day, fentanyl, heroin, like all that you know it doesn't even matter any drug, but the opioids are definitely the tough ones. Um, that it completely reduced all withdrawal symptoms and reset all of their receptors to as if they've never done that stuff before. And I would say the majority of people I think it's 80% of people don't relapse after the first uh treatment and it's like a 97% rate of success of sobriety after a second treatment for any substance abuse issue.

Speaker 2: 1:29:53

And I don't I don't think big pharma likes the fact that they can't prescribe, like suboxone, mesothrone, things like that to people that may be struggling, because that's, you know, a lot of money for those people. And I'm hoping, through all of our experiences, all the studies like I mean testimonials, that this stuff does get approved to be done stateside. I know Texas and Colorado have recently been given the goead for like studies with it. Um, but just seeing even the stanford study, like that's more than enough for just veterans to really take a look at this and explore other options versus the pharmaceutical route yeah, I mean, times are changing.

Speaker 1: 1:30:40

You see it right now. As much as people like, don't like rfk right, he's disrupted big pharma yeah, to the extreme. So I think there's ever a time now to this treatment gets pushed through it's.

Speaker 2: 1:30:55

It's now there's no money in healthy people that's that's the issue.

Speaker 2: 1:31:00

Um, that's why you know, even when I'll give this example, even when I with dogs that I train, a lot of them are on anti-anxiety meds, ssris, whatever the case may be and I tell the owners I'm like you're putting a Band-Aid over a deeper issue, and what happens? I get all of those dogs off medication by teaching them how to be a dog, and it's no different than human beings. Hey, I've got to teach you certain things. Can there be instances of actual physical damage to the brain? Absolutely, but some people need that kick in the butt of like, hey, like you're a person here's, here's how we start feeling things, here's how we start taking care of ourselves and, um, they have to want it, you know I mean a landmark.

Speaker 1: 1:31:45

I'm gonna use this in quotation studies. They did a landmark study of over 125,000 participants, so a big end value showed that working out outperforms the leading SSRIs for depression.

Speaker 2: 1:31:58

Oh 100%.

Speaker 1: 1:31:59

That in and of itself should be eye-opening. Why aren't we going to the doctor or psychiatrist, psychologist and then prescribing the gym?

Speaker 2: 1:32:06

That should be where we start first yeah, I, I completely agree, because even my experiences like I would go into, you know, those types of offices with those people and they're like, oh well, you need to be on this now. Now you need to be on this and I needed this. To counteract this versus like, was I going to the gym? Yes, I was still going, but like I had, I actually had like a brain damage, you know, and they weren't even looking at that, like that was in my file, and they're like, oh, we'll just keep piling all this stuff on. No one was like, hey, let's try these things to help repair your brain, right, like there's nothing like that.

Speaker 1: 1:32:40

It's just oh well, you're depressed, oh, you need this now I see it here it's doctors tell clients to stop working out because of pick a stupid reason oh yeah, spin the wheel.

Speaker 2: 1:32:53

It's gonna be up there like whatever the wheel of a stupid reason, yeah, and it's I.

Speaker 1: 1:32:57

I really want to don't do a disservice for the medical community because I know people who become doctors. I want to do it for the right reason, like my whole family is doctors. I think where the really the pitfall lies and I think this is a systemic us issue is doctors get sued so much. They have to make decisions like that because if 0.5 percent of people don't feel better, they're going to get sued and lose a medical license, but because people just take things to the freaking extreme. So maybe the real issue isn't the doctors, it's the people that go to the doctors to look for stupid, freaking reasons to sue them and then they get power and they take it out of everyone else. So it's a never-piling system of lawsuits tied in with pharmaceuticals paying their back pocket. Crazy thing like looking into pediatricians right, it's not that pediatricians get paid for, like get children getting vaccines, it's they're not allowed to see patients. That don't get all the vaccines.

Speaker 2: 1:33:56

I heard that recently, yeah, so that's insane. Who the hell is dictating whether or not, they can take care of a kid. There was a recent one. What was it? Someone? Someone said their practice had to be vaccinated to a certain point so that way they could get paid, or whatever the case may be they get reimbursed yeah, to reimburse for yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:34:16

And I'm like it's unfortunate because in the capitalistic type of society you have to keep patients sick, you have to keep having them come back and by giving them all these things all the time I disagree.

Speaker 1: 1:34:33

I think that's more of a socialistic Okay yeah, right. So the state or the federal government is telling somebody you need to be at a certain level. Everything was private.

Speaker 2: 1:34:44

Well, if someone's making a lot of money from a pharmaceutical company and they're like, hey, let's say a thing of this. Well, if someone's making a lot of money from a pharmaceutical company and they're like, hey, we need you to keep giving this stuff or else your pay gets cut off, you know, or you lose this stipend, or whatever the case may be, if there's option A that heals me and option B that doesn't heal me keeps me out of medicine and both are private and more people start going to the option that heals them.

Speaker 1: 1:35:04

They're going to get further and put the other one in the business. It's the same thing with what we do. People come here because they feel better and they go and tell their friends. Ultimately, that's how we stay in business.

Speaker 1: 1:35:18

I could be a gym that charges less and they don't get more and I don't teach people how to work out and then they start burning through and it's harder for me to retain and refer because people don't see results. It's more of just teaching people how to get better and better and better, and that has to be a true 100% capitalistic society to help ultimately get the better product. This would be proof If you said I'm going to spend 10 times the amount on this treatment, right, instead of going to them. They'll have more funding. They'll be able to get more advertising out.

Speaker 2: 1:35:45

They'll be able to see more people.

Speaker 1: 1:35:46

But because it's not that way. The government has to approve them to start studying. Right has to get involved. What are you going to end up with? It's going to take forever.

Speaker 2: 1:35:56

Yeah, but I mean that's the thing too. It's what you're running into now with just treatment in general. Like I think they use the example in an ambio where it's like you know why would it benefit big pharma to get someone off opioids? Like if they could just be on Suboxone for their whole life? You know, $6,000 a year for a pill that probably costs like a penny, and you know that. Why would they want people to be healthy? It's frustrating, like I think so many people don't live a quality of life. I think nutrition is the one thing that I I mean I know you guys are big on this like most people don't know how to eat you know what kills people more poor diet or poor or poor diet or lack of exercise kills more people than alcoholism than lack of movement and mental health like suicide by far.

Speaker 2: 1:36:56

Right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:36:57

Insane, and we focus on everything else and not the number one.

Speaker 2: 1:37:00

Well, everyone wants the quick fix for that, like the Ozempics, the weight loss drugs, but that doesn't fix bad nutrition.

Speaker 1: 1:37:11

you know it's frustrating yeah, tie that in with the lack of education for nutrition. That would teach our kids and how. No one knows how to eat and doctors don't even learn nutrition and that was the thing.

Speaker 2: 1:37:20

And like I, when I ran my own business, and like I was, I was self-taught everything nutrition wise and I had. You know, I put people on stage at like three percent body fat and people like, well, what drugs did they use? What did? I'm like they just ate the same healthy things of a balanced diet every day and I just adjusted here and there. They still had cheat meals, they still had these things. But like, if you just stay consistent, eating these same things, you're gonna feel, feel better. If you're in a marriage, your sex life is probably going to be better.

Speaker 2: 1:37:50

There's a lot of things that people don't think about that nutrition can do for you Longevity being the big one, I want to have a good heart so I can run around with my kids. I want to be able to go on walks with my wife. I will be the first to admit I had a really bad time binge eating, especially when I lose a lot of weight, and I would eat like what is it like 12? Like I was doing it recently too, before treatment. Like I would just go and eat a dozen donuts like three times a week and I would binge out on McDonald's, but then I wouldn't eat for like three or four days. But that was that, was my mental health messed up from trauma and things like that. That was just my dopamine hit.

Speaker 2: 1:38:32

But I knew because obviously my background in fitness, I was like, well, if I just don't eat for a few days I can just fast it all out. But I always stayed. I stay the same way. I'm 211 or 210 all the time Every time I take a shower. Amanda will be like what are you weigh 21? All the time. Every time I take a shower, amanda will be like what are you weighing 211? Because I step on it it's every day 211, 210. But there's no secret as long as you're making healthy choices and working with someone that's educated on that, you can live a better life. And what is it? Fitness is medicine. So is the food?

Speaker 1: 1:39:04

I couldn't agree more, man, so I'm going to ask the final two questions I ask everyone, first one being, if you were to summarize this in one or two sentences, what would be your take-home message to people?

Speaker 2: 1:39:14

Keep an open mind to other things that exist to help not only yourself but your family and love yourself.

Speaker 1: 1:39:24

I love that. And the second question how can people find you get a hold of you?

Speaker 2: 1:39:28

So I have my Instagram. My Instagram it's Mike, Mike Leo. Um, there's a picture of me with a dog I was training. And I do have my my business page. It's North shore pause L I. Um, it's me with the picture with the dog. And then email is Mike at North shore pausecom. Um, you can DM me, text, DM me, text me on any of those platforms anytime, and I'm more than happy to have a conversation with anyone.

Speaker 1: 1:39:53

Thank you, guys, for listening to this week's episode of health and fitness redefined. Please don't forget to subscribe and share the show with a friend, with a loved one, for those that need to hear it. And, ultimately, don't forget fitness is medicine. I'll see you next time.