Rethinking Massage For Real Recovery

Most people think massage is either a fluffy spa day or brutal pain disguised as “progress.” Neither actually works.

Anthony sits down with Sophia, founder of In Body Massage and Wellness, to break down what massage looks like when it’s treated as healthcare. This episode covers how targeted, intentional bodywork can reduce pain, improve range of motion, regulate the nervous system, and support better sleep without bruising or guesswork.

Sophia explains how she builds personalized sessions for common problem areas like the neck, shoulders, and upper back, especially for people who train hard, work long hours, or live with chronic stress. The real driver of results isn’t pressure. It’s clear goals, thoughtful technique, and a frequency that matches the problem.

They also cover how to choose the right therapist, what to ask before booking, how to know if sessions are actually working, and why improved function matters more than momentary relaxation.

The conversation then shifts to building a sustainable wellness business. Sophia shares how underpricing early on stalled growth and attracted the wrong clients, while Anthony adds insight on pricing based on outcomes, tracking progress, and building systems that support long term success.

This episode is for anyone who wants smarter recovery and a stronger foundation in service based business.

Chapters

• 0:00 Why Most Massages Miss The Mark
• 2:50 Relaxation vs Results In Bodywork
• 5:10 Massage As Healthcare, Not Luxury
• 9:20 Frequency That Actually Drives Change
• 13:00 Pain Patterns: Back, Neck, Shoulders, Stress
• 16:30 Building A Practice Around Care
• 19:20 Why She Started Her Own Studio
• 22:30 Personalized Plans And Continuity

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Hello, welcome to another episode of the Anthony Amor Show, and we have an absolute great one for you. One that I'm personally excited for, someone I've known that we discovered for four years at this point. So this is Sophia. She owns In Body Massage right up the road from us in Isata. And I want to start with me giving a backstory, and then we'll branch into it. So, as everyone knows from what I've talked about a lot, multiple accidents, herniations at the wazoo, always kind of suffered with chronic pain, and fitness was that outlet for me. And as that progressed, I knew we needed a little more of the recovery side of it. So I started looking for massage therapists. And I went to a lot. Like, I mean, a lot. Upwards of 25 over the course over four years alone, bouncing around different ones, trying them here, trying them there. And I never found anyone that was good. It was two extremes. It was one, they cared more about what I call flufiness massaging, which is all about aesthetics, and you're gonna go to sleep. And it's great for people that just want to relax, but that's not where I was going. And then the secondary side of that was people that just wanted to beat the shit up out of you. Whether that's it felt like with bats sometimes. Yeah. I like card massages, but they would literally go on my bone. They know what they were talking about, and you could just like I know the body, and you trying to tell me you know the body, and when you really don't, it's worked out really poorly for me. So then we kind of stumbled past and let goers. I was like, oh, let me go and see if I enjoy it. And I haven't stopped going. So yeah, definitely uh one of the best massage therapists I've ever worked with, bar none, I have to say to start. So that's a used advertising for for you, right there. Like I personally go and took it a step further, where inside of our elite membership we offer monthly massages, and those clients go see you that I pay for to go because I really value what we do because it's hard to develop brands inside a business because then if you screw up, it's a reflection on me. Yeah, and that's why it's so hard to build brands like that. So, but I never have to worry about it with you. So it's been amazing. And I want to use that and branch into more first the client-facing side of massage.

SPEAKER_01: 2:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 2:18

So the first question is what do most people get wrong when they look for a massage therapist? And how would you direct them?

SPEAKER_00: 2:27

Um, well, I think just the idea of massage has been seen in so many different ways. Like the misconception of massage is like, right, it has to be really painful in order for it to work, or it is just that kind of like aesthetic, like very floofy type of like, we're just gonna relax and do, and it could be a mixture of those things. So when you're looking for a massage therapist who's actually gonna work with you, look for someone who is genuinely caring about your care and your health, who's going it, going um he's going about it on like a health standpoint more than just a massage. And I think that is the misconception is people just think it's just a massage, it's just a luxury, it's just something that you do on vacation. It's not something that like you should be doing for your health and wellness on a whatever basis, on a weekly, monthly, not yearly. It should never be yearly, but you know what, it's fine. But um, so when you're looking for a massage therapist, I think you're looking for those those key things of like them being educated, them actually caring about your health, and let's see. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 3:51

Um let me help you out.

SPEAKER_00: 3:59

You help me out.

SPEAKER_02: 4:00

Yeah, yeah, I got you. So it's really trying to someone fully understand what your body needs at the specific time. And I think the biggest question people ask, you did mention not once a year, right? So you're looking for more of like a frequency, and that's always a concern because some people use insurance for massage and get that basis out of it, or they go as like a one-off to just get a little relaxation for it. But massage has more purposes than just relaxation. So the first question before we dive into frequencies what is a primary focus for massaging that's so people should look for, minus the theory typical, I'm gonna go take a nap now as my body gets rather than fall asleep.

SPEAKER_00: 4:37

Um, I mean, it depends on really what they're looking for. Using you as an example, you're using this as a pain management. You're using this as a way to help you sleep better at night, um, to have less anxiety or um not even just on the physical side, it could help with mental stress and things like that. So I think it's really important to kind of think about massage as just healthcare in general. And if people approached it in that way, more than just of a luxury or just of a a way to like relax, which it can be those things. I mean, for some parents that I see, it's their only time away that they get, but like that's important for their whole entire life that maybe that is the only time that they get a break. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:35

So if you're looking at some frequency standpoint, like coming to the gym, right? Someone working out once a year is wild. But yeah, yeah, even working out once a month or once a week still doesn't produce results. Right. For to really get results out of strength and weight, strength training, and cardio, you need to consistently work out two to three times, like at a bare bones minimum.

SPEAKER_01: 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:56

So when you're looking there from a recovery standpoint, how often do you actually need to undergo specifically massage type recovery to really reap the benefits from it over the long term?

SPEAKER_00: 6:10

I had a client that I was seeing for maybe a little under a year. He had a shoulder injury, he it was a past shoulder injury, he kept re-kind of aggravating it. We saw each other maybe once to twice a week for almost a year. Range of motion started maybe 60%, uh, we'll say 99% better at the end of it all, him being able to move, him having less pain. So it it really depends. I think more is more times than less, is what I would say in terms of frequency. Um even if you're using it just for maintenance and people are coming for once a month, I think that's okay too. It depends on what you are wanting for your recovery recovery.

SPEAKER_02: 7:10

So, what is the number one reason people do end up coming to see you?

SPEAKER_00: 7:16

Um pain management.

SPEAKER_02: 7:21

Is there any specific time of pain management? Is it back pain, shoulder pain, knee pain?

SPEAKER_00: 7:24

Like it's what specifically um upper back pain, lower back pain, a lot of shoulders. Believe it or not, I think a lot of people do come for stress relief and anxiety on top of, you know, maybe that's like bringing in their their physical pain on top of their mental pain or emotional uh strife can present in the physical body. So I see a lot of different types of people. If people coming from the gym, everybody's dealing with upper back pain, shoulder pain, neck pain, and that's a majority of what I see of people coming from here at least. Um all different, all different kinds of pain, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:14

So there's two sides of every story, right? So you get the client-facing side of it, the kind of looking at, and then what I find interesting about you is more the opposing business side of it. Because you don't fit the stereotypical mode of what everyone stereotypes massage therapist at in my eyes, which is a good thing, right? As far as being a business owner, yeah, right? So I feel like even that industry, so people don't want to take the next steps to own a business, or they just don't truly understand what's involved. What how do you learn? How do you grow a massage company? Because it's different than actually giving the massages all the ins and outs as you learn. So the first, like what first question is what drove you to do it on your own as opposed to working inside a big box massage studio?

SPEAKER_00: 9:05

Um Well, I feel like I wasn't really looking for it. The opportunity kind of presented itself to me. Um what intrigued me or what kind of got me to that point is I wanted to be able to work with the c with my clients in a way that I felt would actually be conducive to people's health, not just like you work somewhere. Um, and I've been fortunate enough that I have worked at places where I do believe that they genuinely care for people's well-being. But most massage places, they're in and out. They're seeing however many clients a day. And it's just like factory working instead of actually thinking about the person. I try to go, um, I try to work with people on an individual individual standpoint. So every treatment is gonna be individu um personalized to that person. So that's kind of what made me excited to start my own business was being able to actually feel like I can formulate plans with people and work with them. And, you know, let's say I'm working somewhere, they can't, there's five other massage therapists who work there. They want to see me, but now they're they can't because my schedule is booked because of how they ever how the business had booked me. So now I can't see them. So now someone else, it's putting their care in somebody else's hands, which is fine, but you don't actually, I think, generate that real rapport that you need in order to really make progress with somebody.

SPEAKER_02: 10:49

Right. So just even from experience, because our our industries are relatively the same when you look at it from a business standpoint. It's almost identical. What the big biggest disconnect you get with us is if I go work with another trainer, they don't have anything logged on my progress, how things are changing, how I'm feeling, all that's gone. So that when I took it a step further to do everything here inside of Redefine, we have a portal where everything's logged, tracked, monitored. So it doesn't matter who the client works with because that trainer's doing all that back end work before they even walk in the door. So they with the pick up continuing care, where you saw that disconnect inside of that where there was no continuing care because nothing's shared monitored. No, I don't know a single massage place that does that. I could be wrong, but places I have been, I've never seen it. So you took it upon yourself to really say, okay, if I want to offer continuing care for people, this is the extra step so that I need to do it on my own. So I guess one of the biggest, like big first questions for those that are interested in doing it on or just want to learn a little more. What's something you learned the hard way from starting your own business? Like, what's a lesson you learned real quick that was like, wow, I wish I knew that sooner.

SPEAKER_00: 11:59

Oh. I feel like there's a lot of lessons that I've learned. A really, a really big one.

SPEAKER_02: 12:07

Or just one in general.

SPEAKER_00: 12:09

Um I think price point. I had made the decision to put my prices on a lower standpoint when I first started because that's what I felt like I needed to do in order to bring people in. Um, it kind of bit me in the butt to do it that way because it's really hard to bring your pri price point up and like you know what your worth is, and I've been doing this for seven years now, and I mean, I'm I'm working my way up and really putting a a price on what I offer as a massage therapist and as a professional. So that I would say if I give anybody advice on starting a business, don't price yourself too low.

SPEAKER_02: 13:12

What does that do? What is pricing yourself like? Why was that a bad thing?

SPEAKER_00: 13:16

Um I think it kind of sets the tone of it's not as valuable.

SPEAKER_02: 13:27

Explain that for those listening.

SPEAKER_00: 13:30

Um, so if you're going to maybe I'll I'll use this example because I feel like this could be something you're getting a tattoo or something like that. And you can either go into a back alley and get a tattoo for 50 bucks, or you can go into a really reputable place and maybe it's a thousand dollars for that tattoo, but you know you're gonna get good work. Um, I think it's kind of the same for really everything, and like you too. Like I use you as an example on like how you should build a business or how you should go about things because you do really value the work that you do here and like all the things that you do for your clients. Um, and I think people automatically come in here and they know that they're going to get the best um offerings.

SPEAKER_02: 14:31

I I was literally laughing with Dennis the other day, not laughing, it's just like looking back. When I first opened my doors, I had the same philosophy start cheap, right? That's how I'm gonna get all the people and be able to grow. I just have to be cheaper because I was that ignorant idiot that was out of the gym as a trainer and thought that the gym would have made all this money because I only made 10% of the session or whatever it was. Yeah, I was off charging 30 bucks for 30 minutes, ended up being 60 bucks an hour. Oh my god, that that shoot me in the foot real quick. Yeah, yeah, we got signups, but there were so many issues that came with it. Like now operational. Now I had to hire more people to take care of all these people. And I wait, that costs more money to do that. Oh my god, I'm running out of space.

SPEAKER_00: 15:15

Or well, it's also the type of clients you also want to attract as well.

SPEAKER_02: 15:19

Right? Oh, yeah. Now the clients are paying so little, they don't care if they know shows, and they're not getting the results. So the whole point of my business is to give people the results. Right. They don't give a shit because it's so cheap. So it's it really was a hard lesson. Yeah, and we went from that's 60 bucks an hour to now we're at$165 an hour. So we're over double where we originally started seven years ago. We're still gonna go up because as we build and as we grow our company, we add more value to it. We become more experienced. We never become less experienced as a company. We're always gonna grow. So as we grow and as our knowledge goes, and as we truly separate ourselves from other gyms, that's now gonna validate our higher price point. And for those that truly want results and truly gonna get the best paying for it, like you said, not going the back alley to get a massage or getting a tattoo, it's going someplace that actually is repetitive, you know, you can get the results. And I kind of feel like the same ties in with massage therapy because it is it is different. So, is there anything else besides pricing that if you were if you were talking to somebody and they were like, you know, Safia, I want to open, do my own thing. Hey, listen, start your price is higher. Uh, I also recommend you do this. What would that be advice?

SPEAKER_00: 16:31

Um well, maybe I I got this a little bit from you from our conversation yesterday, but it really is something that I think about all the time is is just be you. I feel like I've maybe why things like this are kind of hard for me. You've been trying to get me to do this podcast for a very long time. Um, and I have a hard time speaking about um myself or my business or anything really without like really formulating a thought, like having a script or whatever it is. But um just being yourself and not second guessing yourself. Um imposter syndrome is a big thing in any business. Um, and I feel like I just feel that hard. So, like really just like staying true to who you are, um having clear direction, not that you're always gonna have a clear direction on like what it is that like you want for yourself or for your business or whatever it is, but just staying grounded so you can be clear. Um, I know we talk about this a lot, or like you say this, like having that work-life balance, and you think that there's not really a work-life balance, because it is our business is our life, and I agree to that, but I think you have to have some kind of separation, or maybe it's this different type of people. So, like figuring out what type of person you are. Like, for me, I feel like I have to have a work-life balance, and like I can't let the this my business be all of me. It's just it's a part of me, and like I will fully commit and I will be a hundred percent in my business and the things that I do. But on the side of that, like you are your own person, and you have to make sure that you're taking care of yourself and doing all of that self-care and things like that. And maybe that's like having a day to yourself where you're not answering all of the emails and like get a massage, go go get training at redefined fitness or whatever it is, you know what I mean? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:00

So I'm gonna make an argument on this.

SPEAKER_00: 19:02

Okay, I knew you.

SPEAKER_02: 19:04

I'm gonna use massage as an example.

SPEAKER_00: 19:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 19:07

So, as the CEO, your primary responsibility is to be the visionary and the driver in the company, right? And the real way to add value as the visionary driver in the company is to limit the amount of time you're giving directional work, meaning you're here talking to your employees and stuff like that. But the indirectional work is where you let your mind wander and you start thinking of making things bigger and better. And it's very difficult to do that kind of work inside of your company. When I'm here, I'm stressed as whatever, the ceilings shift. I don't know. What's something stupid example? It's also so hard to do this extra broader work. But when I detach myself from the day-to-day stuff, that's when the real business growth happens. Good example of tying this thing all together is there's two places for me. One, to get my massages, and I'm talking to you or relaxing or sleeping. That helps me brainstorm about different things that frees my mind up from the stress. The second place that I get the most, and you want to talk about work life balance, and people truly sort of separate vacations. You can ask my wife. By day three, I'm going a mile a minute about new ideas. Because all of a sudden, I just detach myself. And it's like, oh my God, I have this happening here. And I just let my brain be free. And that's truly what makes a CEO. So if you say there's a work-life balance, you're saying that when you're doing this, you can't think about anything about work. Nothing. But if there's no such thing and it all lives in one continuum, then when I'm away, I mean, I just let my mother, even from there hanging out with my wife and my kid, all of a sudden an idea comes to my head. I'm supposed to just not think about that idea. I'm supposed to drop it.

SPEAKER_00: 20:58

No, you can. I just mean like it can't be an all it's you can't have the stress. Like, I can't be keep being like stressing about something. I can have these ideas and I'll jot down the ideas because I do have them when I'm away. Because you that's when you can have that clarity when you step away and you're not in. Can I curse?

SPEAKER_01: 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:23

Oh, when you're not, when you're not in the shit of it all, and you take a step back and like you do have all these ideas, and you're like, oh, like let me, yes, and then let me write that down and I'll think about it, and we'll ruminate later on that. So I I do agree.

SPEAKER_02: 21:44

But going away gave you the capacity to have those ideas.

SPEAKER_00: 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:49

Moving outside of your business, outside of the operational side. Like you're thinking people think work-life balance is the operational side of business. But there's multiple sides to being a CEO.

SPEAKER_01: 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:58

And that visionary side. Needs to be away as far away from the operational side as possible. So it's not separating work life. It's separating visionary from operational to the other aspects of business. You're just separating those components of it to give you the space to do things where you need to do things. Because you truly can't be that side, that visionary, when you're bogged down and everything here. You need to have that work-life balance where you're out on a beach, you're going to relax. Because without that relaxation, you're never going to have the true drive to push your company forward.

SPEAKER_00: 22:30

Well, right. I feel like there's times where I have been less. I wrote a poem recently and I posted on Instagram, whatever. It was kind of cute. But I wrote something about how like I wanted to come back to this side of me that I feel like I've kind of lost in the business a little bit. And that is the like being like creative part, like exploring different things because I'm so stuck in like everything else. I'm so stuck in my head and I'm not like free-flowing to like be creative because like that is like a and of the amazing thing about being a business owner is that you get to create and you get to have all these ideas and you get to put them forth and you get to collaborate with other people and like make those things come true. And that's really fun. But I feel like I've gotten like stuck in this like way of overthinking and not allowing myself to really like create and like see a vision. So I have to take a step back. And like it's a 24-7 job for like ever. It's every day, even on your days off, you're not even on your vacation, you're still thinking you're still working. I'll still answer a call, even though I say I'm not going to. You still do. That's just what it is. But I'm trying to, yeah, I guess that would be the advice if if you're starting a business to like not go not get so stuck in your head and like overthinking every decision because that is like when you will be less creative and potentially less successful.

SPEAKER_02: 24:16

Yeah, the advice would have been to hire someone to take over all the operational lockdowns, let them fail, and come back, fix the pieces, let them fail again, and kind of repeat that cycle until they get better and better and better at it. And you truly don't own a business if you have to work in your business, but you truly are free when you're working outside and being a true CEO that lives as your life and your work one together as a balance. So they all become wholesome one. My work, my family, everything is who I am as an individual.

SPEAKER_01: 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:49

And that's truly who I focus on as me as an individual. And I think that's I think the difference the way I think to most other people think what I've learned at the experience. But Sophia, I appreciate you coming on. This has been great. If you guys do want to get a massage, please go check her out Embody Massage and Wellness. Absolutely great person, best person I've ever seen. But thank you for coming. Thank you guys. This is this week's episode of the Anthony Eamon Show. Please don't forget, like, subscribe, share, comment if you want to have her back, or if you have any of the future questions, we'd love to. And until next time.