Is College Worth The Debt In 2026?

I’ve been thinking a lot about how the college question was never really about education—it’s about outcomes. Growing up, I constantly heard, “What school are you going to?” like there wasn’t even another path. Now I’m starting to challenge that script by actually looking at real numbers, real stories, and what a degree really gets you in 2026.

On one hand, I can see what college does build. It’s not just academics—it’s communication, structure, and discipline. I remember hearing Anthony talk about the moment discipline finally clicked for him: waking up at 5 AM just to chase extra credit so he could hit the grade he needed. That kind of consistency matters, and college can force you into it.

But then I have to ask myself the uncomfortable question—could I build those same skills faster somewhere else? Like through real-life consequences, work experience, or even starting something on my own? Because when I really think about it, some parts of college feel like pure filler: padded requirements, random classes, and this weird pressure to pick a major that doesn’t clearly connect to a career.

Then there’s the financial side, which is hard to ignore. Student debt, tuition, and especially the interest—it’s something most people don’t fully calculate until it’s too late. When I compare that to alternatives like trade school or apprenticeships, it really makes me pause. In those paths, I could get paid to learn, build real skills, and start earning without putting myself in a financial hole.

And now with AI changing everything, I can’t help but think about which careers are actually future-proof. A lot of high-paying, paperwork-heavy jobs seem more exposed to automation, while roles built around human connection still feel more secure.

At the end of the day, I’m not sure there’s a one-size-fits-all answer. I just know the conversation is shifting, and I’m trying to think more critically about what path actually makes sense—not just for me, but for the next generation too.

Transcript

Should You Go To College?

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's up, guys? I'm Anthony Eamon and my co-host Gal. We have a really fun episode for you guys. Question: Should you go to college? The deep question everyone wants to know. Let's let's go back because we're about the same age as we talked about. And I think this is important for people to understand psychology about going to school. And I remember that I'm sure it's the same for you. Growing up, it was always what school are you going to? Yes. I hated that question. It was never what do you want to do or are you going to go to college? It's what school are you going to? Competitive. Yeah. The guidance counselor. What school do you want to prep going to? You want to competitive? Parents, uh, which college are we going to? Yes. There was no other option.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

I don't know if you felt it different. No, no, it wasn't. It was it going to school meant you achieved the next level of success. And if you're not, we don't want to hear about any trades, anything else. Community colleges were out the window. Those didn't count. You're a bum, you're losing. And unfortunately, that's how it is. It was very competitive in nature. But I do think times have changed, and we'll get into that with the whole thing. Where did you go to school? Uh Stony Rook University and Fromondale State. Undergrad? Grad? Undergrad. Oh. Undergrad? Yeah. Biology and chemistry.

What College Actually Teaches

SPEAKER_01 1:10

I went to a Swego four years undergrad and then two years at Hostrid that I ended up not finishing for grad. Oh wow. Okay. But this is my question. This is the best place to start it off. Did you find school useful?

The 5 AM Extra Credit Lesson

College As A Waste Or A Wake Up

SPEAKER_00 1:25

In some ways, yes. Explain. No, maybe a lot of ways, actually. Just basic knowledge and expansion of the mind and being able to think through things thoroughly. Being um educated on history. I think just bas having a basic education and knowing things and having knowledge. It helped me in that sense. Um, being able to hold conversations when you have to give up and give speeches in the class. And but didn't you do all that in high school? Not not much. Not much. Not as much as no, not much, not much in high school. Um especially me being in involved in sports and things of that nature. Not yeah, I just didn't, my time was more so with that. Um, but college is where uh the class was specifically made for public speaking or um you know things of that nature. So yeah, it helped me in that sense, but there's a large percentage of my schooling that I never used. I never used calculus, dude. Never I did calculus, I did organic chem. When did I use that? You know, so I think it's really tailored and really matters, uh, uh, and it's dependent on what you want to be, what you're pursuing. Medical doctor, yes, attorney, yes, you need that. But unfortunately, for what I ended up doing, I didn't need any of it. So all those late night studying was useless, essentially for those classes. Um, but I think the part in which it helped me with is just being able to communicate with people, the students, people walking by just basic forms of communication, and that's pretty much it. I don't even talk to anyone from college anymore. So yeah, and it didn't really help me much, other than that. That I can say that. Um discipline, I can say that being on time to class. Um, I was always on time. Uh, there's one specific story. I remember, yeah, you know what? Nah, I don't want to write off school too much. Now that I'm starting to think about it, it college helped my discipline. For everyone's different, I had no fallback plan. It's go to college to become a doctor. I don't come from, you know, silver spoon, all that stuff. So I'm like, I gotta make it out. We come from nothing. So my discipline was born in college. Yes. So one specific story that I'm reminded of when I speak about discipline is um physics too. You get extra points. And one thing about me, let me let me start off and say this. I wasn't the smartest guy, I wasn't the fastest guy. You know, I didn't have all the attributes. Pretty smart, dude, not an idiot, but I wasn't the smartest, where some people don't need to study and they pass the flying colors. So the only way for me to excel was hard work. I always outwork people. That's one thing I I know I can like my work ethic is unmatched, and that's one thing I thank God for. I am not lazy at all. So I knew if I can outwork people, I can stay at the top of the class. And that's what I did. So any opportunity for that, I took advantage of it. So going back to the story, the teacher for physics too, physics two is one of the hardest classes I've ever taken. It was just read, I just didn't get it. It was insanely difficult for me. But an opportunity arose where he said, if you come early and you write the extra credit on the board, you get extra points for the whole class, the for the grade. Oh, are you serious? Dude, I got like a C in this class. I gotta get a B at least for medical school and stuff like that, especially physics too. So I'm like, damn, bro, this is my opportunity. So class is 9 a.m. People are coming at 8 a.m. to write the questions. I come at 7:30. Now the numbers start to dwindle down. First, it's four people coming to put the extra credit. Somebody comes at 7 a.m. Like, damn, this guy's beating us. Shit. I'm gonna come at 6:30. It went all the way down to me being the last person that was willing to do it, and that's what it taught me. Discipline, how bad do you want it? I ended up coming at 5 a.m. with the janitors every single day until I passed with a B. So it taught me that. If you want it, you gotta get it. And nobody's waking up 5 a.m. Literally, when you walk into class, I'd be there in the dark. They turn on lights, like, oh, he's here, dude. He did. They used to get pissed. Like, oh, he's here, dude. It's 5 a.m. The janitors. So college is when my discipline was born. So I gotta, now that I look back on it in hindsight, no, I don't write it off. Otherwise, I wouldn't have learned that. And I would have had to learn the hard way later on. So college when my discipline was born. How about you? I disagree. You think college is a complete waste?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

With your story. What do you mean? So let's talk about you in the film industry, right? Do you don't think that you could have learned discipline like that through here if you weren't at time? You mentioned the story, right? For the mentor you were late, and then she fired you. Didn't that teach you discipline more than maybe those equations did? Because you learned that lesson of sit from physics prior to that other story. So you were still late in real life. But then real life, where you lost that opportunity, that's when real discipline showed up. I see what you're trying to do. Oh, okay. Yes, but every situation strengthens you. Of course. But which one is gonna give you the best return on investment to strengthen you?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Okay, yeah, real life experience. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. When something's on the line, yes, that's true. Um, but I think everything plays its part in becoming who you are today. But I understand what you're saying. Which one more so? And you know it's hard to say. You don't know because without the physics experience, how do you know what would happen? It's hard. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

You don't you don't know. So here's here's the example for me. The only benefit of college was that I got hurt.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

I I don't know though, dude.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

If I didn't, I I would never would have ended up in this career if I went straight to work. You have a bachelor's. Yes. And and in four years, that's the only thing you can accredit it for? There gotta be something. Okay, let me ask you this. You're good at math, right? I was good at math prior to college. Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

So it's okay. Well, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Communication skills. How are you communication skills? They were fine in high school. So you don't accredit college for nothing? Nothing at all. For four years of your life, just got her nothing.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

I was able to realize that my journey to make friends was something I got really good at. Okay. Finally, I was able to build that momentum and really start meeting people, and actually became the popular kid on campus as opposed to when high school, like I said, it was the really depressed shy kid on my own. So I got to live the opposite end of that spectrum, which was, I guess, I guess it was good to learn that lesson, but I probably I don't know if it was worth it. Why do you say that? I'm 35. I've owned Redefined Fitness since July 2017. We're nine years in. I lost and I graduated college. High school, sorry, high school was 2008. So from 2008 to 2017, that's a shit ton of time. I lost. What if what if I started a business in 2008? Where would I be today for my kids? Okay. I see what you're trying to say. But if I wouldn't have starved through COVID, I would have had a backing. I'd be way more successful than I am today. I know way more lessons than I know today. And it would be easier to take bigger risks being at home than it is having two kids, a house. I'd be like, I'm becoming more risk-adversed as my kids get older. Of course. And as I have a mortgage and I have responsibility, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

But I would have had almost 10 extra years. Yeah, but you can't blame your stuff for thing you can't blame your old self for things that you didn't know. Of course. You can't say that.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

I blame the system I was put into. So who do you so who do you blame then? Really? Who was the one society? Okay. Because you're impressionable as a kid, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

And like I said, when had when did everyone anyone sit you down and say, do you want to go to college? Were you ever asked that question?

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Nah, dude. Now that I think about it, nah.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I remember sitting with my guidance counselor uh in ninth grade, and we had to do a test to figure out what college we were going to. And I was like, well, what about other options? And she's like, nah, you gotta go to school.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yeah, yeah, you know, and then that's that's where this conversation takes a turn. I guess it's just the old way of thinking, you know, it's work, you go to school, pay people.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Well, this is what happened, right? Yeah, it was the people who could afford college or the ones that were super smart back in like the 50s, 60s that went to college. So only 5% of people ended up going to school. And then when they went to school and got a bachelor's degree, now they're the minority. These are the best of the best. I know a system's gonna credit and push them through, and that's why I want to hire that person as an employer. What happened in the 80s and 90s and 2000s? Everyone went to school. You no longer became an outlier. On top of that, you no longer went to college with a purpose. You went as general education. I went to go pick up these stupid majors that are gonna do nothing for me just to get a degree. What the hell does that mean? As an employer, you know what I don't think I look at someone's degree?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

No one does anything. No, no one that so yes, so to that point, yes. Uh, how do you say? Um, yeah, when you look, I I guess when you look at where you are today as entrepreneur when you were in college, you didn't know you were gonna be an entrepreneur. That's the point. You didn't know, right? Uh no, uh to an extent.

College Is A Business Model

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Oh, okay. I'm gonna add to the story. Okay. My parents had a real estate company for years. And I found some interest in real estate through high school and went to college and listening to conversations and stuff. When I graduated, my mom asked me, What do you want to do with your life? And I said, I don't know. I graduated, I got a degree, now what? She's like, Well, go get your real estate license. I could have got a real estate license, 18 if it's a lot. Say that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I hopped into real estate full time, and I still worked at a gym part-time, two days a week, front desk.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

That was it. So it was, I was exploring the real estate world to try to build myself up there. Then what happened? Then I said to myself, okay, you know, I think I really want this gym life. I think I want to own a gym. So what do what do I have to do? And after talking to people and getting really bad advice, it was, well, you need a steady career in order to get a loan. Okay, so I'll go get a steady career. I applied for Hostra grad school, got into the PE program there. Oh, and I'm I'm still out of pocket. So we're talking like$3,000 freaking credit for private school there in Hostra.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

I'm two years in and I'm starting to shadow like PE teachers, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two of them said, don't do this. It's like this P is horrible. It's like it's no longer about the kids, it's all about taking tests, it's all about sitting in the bleachers. We have to pass everyone anyway because parents give us a hard time if the kid wants to sit out. There's no more structure anymore in high schools. And I'm talking to a professor about my experience of a shadowing, and I was like, explaining, like, I want to own a gym on it. He goes, Anthony, go do that. I was like, but how? It's like you could just do it. And then at the same time, meeting someone who said he wanted to invest in me owning a gym. No, it was just some uh some other client. Yeah, oh, okay, okay. Yeah, he's like, you know what, if you want to do this, I'll do this with you. We'll get a couple investors, we'll open a big gym. Wow. So I was now in my second year at Hostra and now looking at places with him. And so I was like, I'm gonna drop school. I ended up dropping school and saying, screw this, I'm just gonna go full force in the gym. We got to the point, we found a location, 20,000 square feet. We were about to sign leases, and then he told me his wife wanted a new pool that he can no longer back me after we got the leases in hand. And there you go.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

This is with you. See that? But then I learned I don't need somebody else. Bingo, and that's my point, and that's why I just did another podcast. And I said, the key thing in life is do it yourself, do not depend on anyone. Look at that right now, a pool?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Now I'm in grad school debt,$125,000 paying back for what? Wow. Two years,$125,000. What did I get out of it?

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah. But but I'm trying to say out. You can't, that was your decision though. Right, but I felt like I had to because that's how it grew up. Bingo, so who do we blame? It has to be not society, it's the parents.

The Price Tag And Interest Trap

SPEAKER_01 13:48

No, it's society. It's mom and dad. But mom and dad are socially built that way for everyone else. You have to go to school too. And they're trying to do what's best for the kids, right? It's all parents. In my generation, all parents with the same thing. What school are you going to? What school? No one thought outside the box. What's what are the best professions to get into right now? The best and steadiest professions that won't be replaced by AI. What are they? What medicine's one? No. Medicine's gonna be the most first replaced. You think so? Absolutely. It's already happening. Engineering. Who makes the AI? Who makes it? So that could be part of it, right? Okay. What else? What's what's even simpler? That requires almost no school. Fitness? Training, but it is it's in that same category. What is it? What is it? Trades.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Okay. Oh, well.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Electricians. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Plumbers.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

HVAC. All of those will never be replaced by AI. I wouldn't say never. Well, we broke we got years and years and years. You have to have an actual humanoid robot coming in and doing it. Like it's it's that's what, yeah, okay, yeah. You still would decade out. Trade school, you can either go to trade school for two years or you could just hop right into it as an apprentice and get school paid for. And that's crazy, Anthony, because people used to look down on that. Yeah, you know what starting salary is for an electrician? What is it?$150,000 a year. Full benefits. Really? Here in New York. Here in New York. New York, work in a union in the city, man. You're set for life. Retire by 50, get a full pension. Oh wow. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

And it's just so funny how things change, dude.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

You want to take it to the next level and be even more successful? Own a business and trade. Oh, yeah, it's over. Yeah, it's over. I know HVAC guys who own companies. Multi-millionaires. Oh, you know. Like millions of millions are talking. Wow. And they own small HVAC companies here on Long Island.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Oh wow. You know, entrepreneurship always represented freedom for me. So I always, I always was, you know, you can't blame yourself for what you didn't know, but sometimes you know you feel like kicking yourself because it's like, damn it, I I wouldn't have student loan. I would have been free. But then there's the other side that tells you you can't say that because you don't know what kind of entrepreneur you would have been. You don't know who you would have been today. That means, Anthony, would you change anything? That's what I was gonna say. You can't say you change the school. Things that you may not see.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Two sides to that story. Would I change anything and risk not having everything I have today? Absolutely not.

unknown 16:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Exactly. For my kids, I'm not teaching them college is the only way. I'm gonna actually say that college is one of the worst ways unless you know exactly what profession you want to go into. So it's how it's the let I can learn that lesson and take that hit for years, but now I have to make sure I pass on to my kids the real answer. That college isn't for everybody, and it's probably better you don't go into it, actually. And you wouldn't have you would have never derived that answer, um, arrived at that answer if you didn't go. Yeah, but someone had to change that conversation, and that's why I wanted to do this. I want to have a different conversation so people listening can absorb this and say, Oh, we have to do better as a society. Because what what is school? What is school? A place where they teach you how to do something. No, what is college? In the the macro level, what is college?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

I mean, what what else is it? It's it's it's it's a building where you learn.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

No, what is it on macro level? Think big link more macro. I have no idea. What is it? It's the same thing as redefined fitness, it's the same thing as your film company, it's the same thing. Oh, you mean over like a business is what you're saying? It's a business.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Oh, of course. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

What's the purpose of a business? To make money. Great. How do colleges make money? Students, the kids, paying tuition and all that other stuff. I'm a business. I want everyone to believe they have to use me to give them something good at the flip side. So I'm going to pay into things to help show people that this is something you need to come into. So you coming, pay to come see me.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

No, but in order to be in certain professions, you do need college. That we agree. Right. But you're not gonna get to medical school until you show up.

Trades And Real Earnings

SPEAKER_01 18:06

So what am I gonna do as a college? I'm seeing people say, you know, I these stupid degrees, I'm just gonna pick one out of the box, gender studies. I'm gonna have a gender studies media. What is the hell is the purpose of that? Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. Take it to the next level. It's a business, okay? I want to make more money off every single individual that comes in the door, right? So how do I do that?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Make more money off everyone? You just scale prices up on everything.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

No. Different. It's about having them think about different things. You wanted to be a doctor, right? Why do you have to take an English course? Why do you have to take an art course? Yes, that may okay, the art stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Why do we need all these stupid freaking courses? Yeah, but it's a basic understanding of stuff. It doesn't matter. How? If you don't take so you don't think English is a is is a requirement in the college? Yeah. You did English classes in college, right? It was I thought it was a waste of time. Okay, but you did though, right? I don't know. Did you did you not learn? Yeah, it's a basic pre-prerex and basic requirements to get a degree. Did you not learn more than what you did in high? Most do though. It's a deeper level.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Your graduate degree, you're learning more. But if I took that semester and I put it towards what I end up using my career for, wouldn't I look, wouldn't I know more now? Yeah, but they want you to be well, they want you to be well-versed. That's what they that's what they sell you. You're sold by a business. You really believe that? Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Public speaking, taking an English class does not help? It does. A better vernacular? 100%. A better vernacular? Yeah, guys, English classes help. Now. If I want to go into coding, why don't I teach public speaking? Okay. So I think there need to be some adjustments, but would you agree that if you're a physician, an English class would assist you? But you need to be able to relay certain messages to patients. But why can't you learn that in a chemistry class or in a biology class to wait?

SPEAKER_01 19:54

So we only have a limited amount of time. So would you teach you? Okay. Well, you gotta certain things, certain things, yes. I think the curriculum and it's just certain things need to be changed. And I'll never forget this. I art is not my thing. Like that, I was a very math guy. I sit down day one, we're going over the syllabus, and teacher literally goes, Alright, guys, I hope you brought your journals in. Because what I want you to do is every week, you're gonna find a piece of art and write your feelings about it and present it in the week. I literally stood up and walked out. Oh, for real? I was like, I don't have feelings on art.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

How is this useful in life? Yeah, so so I agree to a certain extent. No, you are right. They make up stuff just to get money. Art part number two, you remember art two. Oh, did you graduate art two yet? You gotta do art three. Like they just start doing, yeah. There is crazy stuff, but I do think there's the need and a necessity for basic English classes. And if you're gonna be a physician or attorney, you have to be able to articulate yourself.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

And even as an entrepreneur, in very specific professions, there might be a benefit to some of the things, but less sort of benefit for others. Yes. I agree with that. And it the point is to make more money per student. I agree. It's like the same thing as a business, make more money per client.

AI Replacing White Collar Work

SPEAKER_00 21:12

No, I 100% agree with that. If you want the country, this country to be better and produce instead of us outsourcing all the time, I don't think the price of education should be that high, dude. It shouldn't. Right? It prohibits people from going to school because it can't afford it. Um, so a lot of things need to change. The price, as you said, it's a business overall, and if you don't have the money, you're out of there. That's pretty much how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

And those, and I said this, I have an employer that didn't go to college, and I see his projectory at 20 years old. I think he's going to be so much more successful than everybody else. And I was telling him the other day, I was like, you're 20. You're making this amount of money. I have 40 year olds making less. Here? Here. I was like, you're gonna make you double down on this, you've been making six figures by itself. How many any of the students even graduate? And you're no debt. Oh wow. Take it a step further. Hold on, let's go a step further. Yeah. In business. What have you done to learn?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

What have I learned in business? What have I done to learn? What have you done to learn? Failed.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

No, no. How do you learn? When you want to learn how to do it. Experience.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

I like oh, research. Did you pay for that? No. But that's what I'm saying though, Anthony. You're talking about a 20-year-old guy. Time's changed. Right. There's three ways to learn.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Three ways. You can pay someone to teach you. Right? You can work for free. Right? So, or you get paid to learn, actually, right? So I pay you, but you're learning as an employee. Correct. You're still learning. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Or you can learn for free online. But that's what I'm saying. Times change. Now with all this YouTube stuff and technology, no one colleges, it's done. You could type it in. Before there was no chat GPT, there was no YouTube. It wasn't like so it's like, dude, you have to. Like you have to. Where are you gonna learn? Now it's like your son and they don't need to go. Everything's online. But how do we change the conversation to teach people that they don't? Well, I think it starts like this. And then not only that, people know now. Like that's not even a conversation anymore, unless it's for a specific profession. Physician, attorney, whatever the case may be, engineer, then you just know that you have to go for that because you need uh, you know, the certification and proof that you pass. But other than that. So how much does college cost a year? What is it, 100 grand? Let's talk undergrad. Because we'll go undergrad masters. So you can publics 30k a year? Yeah, I was gonna say about 50, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Right? So take 30 times four is what?$120,000? It's gonna cost you over four years.$124 undergrad.$124 an undergrad. What's average student loan interest? I don't know, what is it? Like four percent, roughly. I thought it was three. You gotta pay that back over 30 years, so you're gonna end up paying close to 400,000 on the 120? Yeah. Over 30 years, if you do a 30-year loan, yeah. No, no, no. What school is that, man? What school is the loan? It's loans. It's not like what the 120 to go. I got paying it back over 30 years at 4%.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

I see what you're saying. That's what's gonna kill you. Yeah. So the calculation that you just did, most don't do. That's how you get screwed. So now I'm now$400,000 in debt.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yes, right? And if I took somebody, 18, didn't go to school, started a minimum wage job, right? So they're making$30,000, let's say, a year. That person, meanwhile, is learning for free through online resources and leveling up their skills. Now the following year they make 40. The following year they make 50. Yeah, the following year they make 60. So now you're at$100,$180,000 profit. I'm$180,000 profit. This person's$120,000 negative. And now they're starting work. I see what you're trying to say. And then how many of those people actually walk into a six-figure job? It's very slim.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

35%. Yeah, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

I'll save the math.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Okay, yeah. Okay, the guy had recorded.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Two-thirds of those people are starting minimum wage jobs and taking that same projectory. That's bad. I'm looking at an application, right? Some of the application comes up. This person has three years experience as a trainer. This person went to school. I'm choosing that guy.

What To Teach Kids Instead

SPEAKER_00 25:44

He's polished. He learned. Yeah, you yeah. Yeah, that you think, yeah. And that's why, that's why I said school is only good for certain. Yeah, you're right. School's only good for certain professions. I think personal training, entrepreneur, you don't need school for any of that. And that's that's the only thing I wish. How many of us come up with entrepreneurs in our family? You don't know any of this stuff. You don't know there's another entrepreneurship is the other route, it's the other leg. You don't know about it. Why do you think that they don't push because they lose money? It's a business. They want to take your cash. That's why. That's exactly why they don't push that entrepreneurship. Because if we teach entrepreneurship, they don't need us anymore. We're in trouble. Yeah. History lesson. When did college become big? Like a thing, the thing to do? Like in around what years? 70s? 60s.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

30s. 30s? 40s around that time frame. Really? Oh wow. Henry Ford was a pioneer. Yeah. Why? He created Ford. Why is Henry Ford wanting you to go to college? To work for people like him. Am I right? Yeah. So he How do you guess why he didn't How do you get rid of your competition?

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Oh Get out.

Closing And Subscribe Request

SPEAKER_01 27:07

You push them in another area. I'm gonna make your forever employee. Yes. What do employees do? Do what they're told? What does college teach you? Do what you're told. What does and employees say? Do they think outside the box and make their own decisions and do their own thing? No. No. What does school teach you? You do the wrong answer, you don't show your work, you're getting points taken off. You're gonna get a bad grade. Wow. You have to take this specific criteria, you have to follow the specific path. That's what college teaches you. It's all the same. So essentially you're saying college teaches you how to be an employee, dude. Oh wow. You know, it bother you like you think about even school in general. This was a huge pet peeve of mine in calculus. And I took calculus uh 11th grade. I was really good at math when I was younger. And my calculator broke. It was a TI 89 calculator.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah, TI-89, shot.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Broke like week four. Uh-huh. And I knew it was like a few hundred bucks. I didn't want to tell my parents that I broke my calculator. Okay. So I learned how to do calculus in my head. That's cr derivatives, all that. All in my head. Oh, you're a beast, bro. But I always got points taken off because I never showed my work because I did the equation different in my head than where we had to do it for the test.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Well, so the answer would be wrong, and that's why.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

The answer would be right, but I always got points taken off because I did it not their way. They would take points off for that? Every single question. My chief to get some out of me. That's weird. They'd be like, no, you have to do it this way. I was like, no, but you get the same answer going this way. And you would show it, you would prove it. Like Yeah. She always thought it was cheating, and I had to do it in front of her. And I'm like, no, this is this is the answer, right? She goes, Yeah. Okay. But you didn't do it our way, and you didn't show your work. What the heck?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

What are they teaching me right there? To conform to a certain time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Right? But this is the same fucking, it's the same answer.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

It's right.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

No, no, it's not. It's kind of like some slavery stuff. They want that's deep, but no, think you want you to conform to this. If not, it's like tyranny. What the hell? If I don't do it this way and I arrive at the same answer that's wrong. And I think that's the employee mindset. Don't let them think outside the box, because if they think outside the box, they're gonna be able to think for themselves. And if they think for themselves, they're gonna then realize they don't need us. Go back pre-Henry Ford time.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

85% of people are entrepreneurs. What changed? Well, one, the industrial revolution. Industrial revolution. Industrial, yeah. That was the biggest thing. Yeah. Because everyone would have their own farmland, right? Correct. That's what I was doing. And they would farter and sell their own fruits, vegetables, whatever, like that. And then so the industrial revolution came, and now they realize they needed more employees. But people were so used to being entrepreneurs. And independent, yeah. So how do you how do you conform people?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Schools, colleges, in order to make this, you need to get this degree in and it creates wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Man, it's so it's so deep. That is deep.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

I was about to say that's deep.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

When you really sit back and think about it, like how society forces you into a bubble and tries to force you to think a certain way, it's mind-blowing. So entrepreneurship is a true American way.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

So how do you get rid of it? Literally, like you just laid it. It's the true American way. How do you get rid of it? Force people to go to schools and yeah, to create employees for those businesses.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

And then what happens to those kids? They graduate, they don't get jobs, and then they get pissed off because society lying to them. And who do they blame? The government, this, that. Wow. It's a systemic level, right? They start outlashing, that's unfair. I was treated like this, I was treated like this. It's only a few certain people who say, Wow, maybe I should just be different. Other people just want to sit there complain. And we can complain about it all day, but it you and I said pick ourselves with a bootstrap and figure it out our own way. Correct. But it's a lot, and you feel bad for them because they were just lied to. I have a friend who has three master's degrees and ended up working a$20 an hour job.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

And there you go. That's not to me, dude. That right there, man, is yeah, I just I don't know. And that's the only thing I regret is not knowing sooner that entrepreneurship is a viable option. You can be an option, you don't need to do this. College courses, because I told you I was always competing with my brothers and all this stuff. And it just, I was never, I never I never liked school, man. That's why I was a B student, some A's, but it was just always a struggle for me where others and my Simmons would fly with color. I'm like, dude, I don't know. But then I found out, oh, I'm I can close deal, I can speak really well, I can articulate. I'm I'm good at this, but what is this called? I don't know what that's called. I didn't know what it was. It took me so many years to find out it's called entrepreneurship. Ah, so you can, and dude, it and the crazy thing is entrepreneurship is in front of our faces our whole lives. Our whole lives. These jobs I was working at, TJ Fridays, Macy's, JC Penny. Did you ever think for a second that you can be the guy that owns this? Did you did you not that that's an actual job? Like I and I think these conversations like that we're having now are so imperative because this is the conversation I wish I heard.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Same.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

This is the conversation I wish I heard, and I wouldn't have followed. I don't think you would have gone to real estate or all the you would have said, I know what I want to do now. I want to be entrepreneur, I just gotta figure out what type. Entrepreneur owns his own time. He creates, he employs people, he helps people. Like that's what I want to do. And then I it allows me more time for my family and loved ones. I don't want to be under someone's rule for the rest of my life. I want to create jobs for people and help people in the way I want to. I want to tell my story through my business. Oh, that's entrepreneurship. I didn't know any of that. You just thought the business, oh people work here. I never thought there's someone that owns this actually. It's just the manager and us with the employees. It's lunchtime.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Even if you want to be an employee, it's fine. You can just pick a trade. Correct. Nothing's wrong with it. Listen, right? That's the that's the beauty of it. You can like I don't like my specific issue. Personal trainers is a trade. Correct. It's a trade. Correct. So you could start$50,000 a year, full benefits, 18 years old.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

And and Anthony's not just that, but the the thing is there's difficulty in there. Just because I'm saying entrepreneurship and be your the boss, and that, dude, it's not as easy as I'm making it. It's extremely difficult. Being an employee is not an easy task. You just gotta pick your poison, right? Throw AI in.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

AI is going to replace those jobs that are the highest paid because it's the best bang for their buck in a business. Oh, that's true. So you got it? Of course. Who's what's the and I'll ask you this question, then I'll answer. Payroll's dumb, yeah. What profession, like high-end profession, okay, that people want to aspire to be, you think is gonna be the first to be replaced by AI completely? Oh, medical doctors. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Medicine, yeah, absolutely. I think that's number two. What else is medical doctors? You got out of there. That's gotta be number one. Medicine? AI is already involved in that. What else could it be?

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Um everyone wants to be a doctor in one other profession. It's that one. What do they say? The two they always say. Lawyer? No, but how's that gonna be? Attorney. How? Bro, contracts? Okay, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 34:08

How are you defending someone in court?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

What are you doing? But most attorney work is just reading contracts, analyzing contracts, creating contracts. It's all paperwork. That's true. It's all paper. Oh humans make mistakes. There's attorney shaking in their boots right now. I would be.

unknown 34:25

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

I really would be. I would have become a trial lawyer because that's probably the only thing not gonna get replaced. I would go, I'm getting into trial law. Like, that's it. That's not true. That's not true.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

But like, don't go out and think it's contract the law. No, no, no. Oh, yeah, you said trial. Okay, okay, okay. No, yes, now it makes it tribal, but contract you're out of it. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

I would think divorce lawyer have a good shot of happening replaced too, because it's still mediating between the people. Yeah, you have to mediate and talk and discuss it. It's very specific, like laws. Like, I'd be worried. Like, you have to like dig through the law book in the US on like it's like this, right? All the cases and everything, it's impossible for one person to know all that. That is true. Hey, I know all that. Yeah. Medicine's not in there too. Medicine's the only matter of time. They actually, an version of the EI already passed the um MCAP. No! Yeah, it's wild. You serious? Yeah, what's what's the purpose of a doctor? What's the purpose of a doctor? Take care of you, cure. No, no, just diagnose you. It's the purpose of a doctor is to diagnose, period. Okay, okay. Right? So, what does a better job diagnosing?

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Humans who make mistakes or an AI? Yeah, but it's not just diagnosis, it's also prognosis helping you, curing you as well. The underlying is so you can treat.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Correct, correct?

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

That's the that's the difference between a doctor and anyone else. So, like a good example is our industry. Like, I can't diagnose somebody. That's what doctors.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

But I can still treat, right? Except you simple.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

As you're saying, but I cannot diagnose and point in the right direction or do whatever comes next.

unknown 35:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

You take all your symptoms, plug it into an AI, and it'll have a better probability of figuring out over what a physician does. Because the physician's gonna be stuck in what they see day to day. And AI is gonna think and analyze the whole picture and then give you percentage probabilities. Crazy story. I was working with a realtor to look for a spot, and he told me that Chat GPT saved his life. And I was like, what? And he goes, Yeah, man, like I had MRI's x-rays done, I had a little pain in my side, and I went to a bunch of different doctors and they said this, like, it's clean, there's something there. He took the images, put it into ChatGPT, and it found cancer. No, it was a little tiny nodule, and he brought it to his doctor, said Chat GPT found this, and they removed it and got rid of it. And it was uh cancerous. Really? Yeah, wild. Wow. Oh wow, man. Because humans make errors, mistakes. Yes, hundreds of. No, you're right. You're right. That's right. AI don't sleep. No, you're right. It don't need a break, it doesn't need coffee to get going.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Oh, I talk chat GT all the time. Yeah, it just goes. I talk chat GBT all the time. I'm in the house cursing it out, you idiot. Did you hear what I said? So, no, you're right on that. Um, damn, that's crazy though, dude.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

But what profession inside of those two is not going to be replaced, right? So I look, the one thing I would always add, if you want to look if whether my job is gonna place another job, now we're gonna place another little off topic, but it's relevant. If it involves human connection, it will never be replaced. Right? You can go, let's take my industry, I know very well, right? You can ask Shad for a workout and it'll give you like a pretty good workout. You can work out outside for free. All this is free. But people want the human connection. That is true. And they we learned that through COVID. After COVID, people got so pushed out. We thrived, we're social animals, we need to be social. So anything that's social isn't going away because people are gonna always crave that. Like, so trainers, barbers, hairstylists, anything that involves face-to-face people talking to each other, talk about the medical industry specifically, nurses, CNAs, there'll just be more of them. They're cheaper labor, and they give that human connection to take care of someone.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Okay, whereas the more expensive labor that they just need to analyze like systemize. Yes, we can replace that. That makes sense. What are your thoughts on film industry and entertainment? Will that be well? They kind of got that now. Hey, did you hear about them making up the actors though? Did you see that?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

They have AI cutters. Bro, that's crazy. Videos are really good for AI. What do you mean? Like the like the fake videos and the clips.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

But there's a case, and you know more than I do, about rights to your AI presence. They were trying to determine if you had rights over it. So basically, if you as Strategy B D make Chris Hemsworth thor in your film, do your rights, like Chris Hemlers have rights over his voice and persona. I think they ruled in favor of the actors. I mean, that makes sense. Yeah, it makes total sense. That's not yeah, but still, you can make AI characters. They had it in a movie recently that AI characters are.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Yeah, but they have complete AI that are unknown, no one knows, and the uh the actors are fighting back. Like, you can't do that. Like, that's so unfair to us, and it looked phenomenal, dude. When I say phenomenal, you know what that means. Toby Maguire, what's the guy that's playing Spider-Man? What's his name? What's the guy that's playing Spider-Man? What the heck is his name, dude? What?

unknown 39:42

Tom Lollen?

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Tom L. Tom L. Yeah, I was like, what's this? Tom Holland, all those guys that are making$50 million,$100 million. We don't gotta pay that anymore, dude.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

So my point. Oh my god. The highest paid professions, take them out because it's the best return on investment. 100%. Because people always think like a business. Payroll drops. Now, what I was gonna find so interesting is I think us as humans, we went like this industrial revolution, tech jobs, tech boom, why website boom like the 2000s, right? I think we're gonna go back. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Hey, you know, and that brings me to the next question. Would you implement AI in this business and replace the highest paying positions? I already implemented AI all the fucking time. No, to replace, for example, sales. That's gonna happen eventually.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

It's not there, but yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

It's gonna oh it's coming. It's coming. Guaranteed it's coming. I use AI to do text. Okay. So you see that happening. That's gonna be I don't know though.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

AI, yeah, the human experience. No, no, that's AI is my CFO. Yeah. You know how expensive CFO is?

SPEAKER_00 40:52

CFOs are done now.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Why do I need somebody? They're done. An AI can analyze and give me back data that a CFO has to pay$250,000 a year to look at. How about marketing? Depends on level of marketing. CMO, CMO. Yeah, I don't think I need CMO. Anyone that gives directions and comes up with ideas.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Yo, bro, honestly, I was saying that. I'm like, you if you want to be creep, just ask them. I got a spring sale coming up. What should I do? Ten ideas. And you can keep going deeper and deeper and deeper. Do you need CMOs anymore? Creative design and all that stuff. Images? Yeah. Make me this image with a little stump. I think you're done. You have a design?

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yo, bro, that's kind of scary, man. We are we are taking jobs with you. We're not there yet. I think that's important for people to understand. But you're close. But people that use AI all the time, you could tell it's AI.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

And it looks like you know why? Because you're not supposed to use it and copy and paste and just throw it in there. That's why.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

You could tell. You're like, that looks really bad. But in two years? And how short is it? It's over.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

It's over. It's over. It's over.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Over. They've they've already done it. Jack BT6 comes out. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

It's that's it. It's it's over. So do you is Anthony gonna implement changes in the company as AI takes over?

SPEAKER_01 42:06

You either gonna implement AI and stay in business or not implement AI and go out of business. You believe that without it, you're gone. Back in the 90s, you're gonna implement the web and explode, or you're gonna implement the web and go out of business. You gotta adapt with the time. You're gonna slowly start and die. Because what happens that was everything's output, right? So an employee can give me 40, 50 hours a week of output. But they're taking breaks, they're talking to their friends. AI works every minute of every day. And it's way cheaper. And it just goes and goes and goes and goes and goes and goes. Okay, that's$20 a month. Even if let's say even keep my employees, right? Now I have my employees, now I have AI, I'm doing how much more output than my competitors. Yes. Triple. That's what I asked you.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Would you use AI to replace employees or would you merge it?

SPEAKER_01 42:57

For now, just merge it. Merge it. Let's let's go 10, 15 times quicker than anyone else. If I can go 15 times quicker than my competitor, you're doing it. Then why not? You'd be stupid to have to.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Those that don't evolve, die. So the key is not to replace, is to work with it.

unknown 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

That's wonderful, Anthony. Yeah. So in the end, the question is school is only worth it depending on contingent on what career field you're going to. That's it for me. You still learn things, but that's the answer.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

I think the answer is societally, we have to look like at where times are headed and teach our kids that there's not a one size fits all. Correct. There's other options. And there's other options that the second you put people in a box, you're setting them up for failure. So when they do go down that path and only 35% of them succeed, and the rest don't, you're now leaving to a very angry society, and you're gonna have a lot more issues with them, and you need to help take a bigger step. Hey, and and lastly, I and this is the

SPEAKER_00 44:00

And I think this may sound crazy, but there's a trickle effect and a domino effect that also leads to an increase in crime. Of course. If you think about it. You're not wrong.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

What do you do when they're sitting around and they got nothing going on? Crime increases. You look at areas, that's the number one way. You walk around a town at 10 o'clock in the morning on a Monday. If there's people in the street, high crime. If there's not people in the street, low crime. It's like the simplest generalistic way to figure it out. There's always exceptions, and that's all right. People get butthurt. There's always exceptions. Right? You can go to a retiree community. That's probably an exception.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Of course, yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

65.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Generally speaking. 50 and all younger, and you're outside? Something's wrong. Something's wrong, man. It's so true, bro. That was a good episode, guys. I love it. All right, guys.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

I hope you enjoyed that. If you like more crazy topics like this, please like, subscribe, share. Enjoy us next time on the Anthony Michelle. Thanks, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Peace, guys.