Fire Fast

You usually know before you actually fire them.

The missed deadlines. The repeated mistakes. The excuses. And eventually, the best people start feeling the impact.

In this episode, we break down when it's time to let someone go, how accountability changes the decision, and why keeping the wrong person can cost you more than firing them.

Second chances or clean cuts?

Watch the full episode and let us know where you stand.

Accountability is leverage.

#anthonyamen #accountabilityisleverage #leadership #business #management

Transcript

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You Are About To Be Fired

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Anthony Eamon Show. So you're about to be fired. How do I know what to do when to fire someone? Well, I own Redefined Fitness, two locations, about to gross over three million and just inside of gyms, top five percent. And tell me tell you something. We've been through a lot of people and we learned a lot of lessons over the last nine years. So y'all and I have a different philosophy about firing. But first, I want to talk about thin-the-gritty. How do you know when to fire someone?

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Me personally? You personally. Consistent mistakes. I give three strikes usually. If you as long as you clearly gave the instructions as to what you want done and they keep messing up, the third time for me is either they're deliberately doing it or just not getting it right. And you gotta go.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Is that three strikes across the board? What do you mean across the board? Like everyone, it doesn't matter what it is, it's three strikes.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

If it's the same task, yes. Like the same, if you're in the same um like department, yes, but not if I gave you a new job and you messed up. You give chances, but if it's just consistent mistakes, but yes, three of the same tasks. That's what I'm saying. I disagree. How many times do you give depends? So sometimes you will fire somebody for one not for one mistake? Depends what it is. Uh no, I I I would why like what that's not, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, you know what? Like, talk, take things to the extreme. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone shows up hammered. I mean that guy's 10 beers deep showing up to work. That's that's different. Yeah, you giving them three strikes? No, no, no. What if they show up an hour late to work and say, sorry, I overslept? Are you giving them three strikes? Well, let me ask you, are you for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

For you, no, right there, you're gone?

unknown 1:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Now, what if that employee this is a perfect example? I don't want to say names, but let's say it's your longest, longest uh uh person employed, longest lasted employee. They show up late to work an hour. You firing them?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Go back to why it's always not three strikes. So, right, loyalty can buy to an extent as long as they're performing. Uh extra courtesies. A good example, uh the employee that's been with me for nine years. Let me tell you, in nine years, she's been late like once or twice. So if she's late, you know my first gut instinct is something happened to her. So something happened, something's wrong. Right. I'm uh like, are you okay? Like I'm always reaching out and trying to see what she needs because that's not your personal behavior. Because she's proven that to me and she's built my trust to me. Now, an employee who's supposed to be in the best behavior for the first week comes in late, like giving you three strikes. What about you? Depends. A year in, probably one, two, depends. I see what you're trying to say. Depends on the trust and time, it's time, right? What have you what is your behavior consistently shown? And how new are you? Two confounding variables. Because what I've learned and what I used to forgive all the time is people would make little mistakes in the beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they're supposed to be on their best behavior. Go back to interviewing. Come later in an interview, it's supposed to be your best behavior. No, you're not getting the job, right? If you can't perform when every variable is stacked in your favor, how do I expect you to perform when you get comfortable here?

SPEAKER_02 3:04

So basically, you're you're quick to fire when you initially meet the person, when it's the just the first few months, whatever. But as time passes and they showed an extended period of time they've been performing very well, there's some leniency there for you.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

It depending on the person's behavior, what they've shown consistently.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Okay.

Three Strikes Versus Context

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Are you firing? I mean, I want to say names, I'm trying to avoid it. Did somebody you let go recently? What was the reason why? Consistent mistakes. In the same same exact thing? No, different stuff, but always the same type of excuse. Okay, see, see, now it's now it's different now. See, see, you didn't say that before. You are not firing because of the mistakes, you're firing the person because of the excuses. So now I brings me to my next question. If that person that you're firing because of the excuses, if they took accountability, would you fire them?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

The first time, no. The second time, yes. But no, no, but you said multiple times. It's not just twice. Right. So the first, let's say they make a mistake and I call them out on that mistake. Yeah. And they go, hey, I'm sorry, I'll fix it, I'll make sure it won't happen again. I'm not firing them off of that. Yeah, that's that doesn't make sense. Human being, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Do it again, especially recently after. Fine? That fire me. That's it. You don't, you're not gonna have a sit-down with them, like, okay, let's figure out how this is going. Forget it, also depends on the employee and type of position the person holds.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

There we go.

Employees Versus Contractors

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Beautiful. So, like, independent contractors. The number one reason to find like you don't let you give them the least wiggle room. Why? Because they're a separate company. You're hiring a company to do a job. If a company doesn't perform in their job, I'm not, there's no figure it out, sit down, figure the excuses, and work with them. That's your job as a company. If I don't do a good job training someone, they're gonna walk out. Right? Correct. If we don't give people results, they're gonna stop coming. I'm gonna stop using if you don't give me results.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

You're a company. You're right. Now take a full-time employee, someone who's salaried, like right. You you have a little more wigger room to teach that person. Because yes, they're part of your team now. Correct. And then there's examples of do you have an SOP to define their behavior? So do you have a standard operating procedure for them to know to follow along? Did I properly teach that person that? But the same goes for the independent contractor. Depends on what they're contracted out for, they're the expert. That's the difference. Ah I'm not paying for an expert.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, Thomas X. That is true.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

That's true. Like this is that relationship's built upon that variable. I see what you're saying. It's not me teaching, keeping an internally teacher as an employee. This is an independent contract position.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Yeah, you got a good point. So independent contract, you have no, no, you don't, there's no um leniency at all. No, it's one mistake, you're gone.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Especially if it costs the primary focus of the job. Yeah, yeah. If they promise they're gonna, let's say, lower a CAC from 900 down to 800, and they don't do it in six months, what am I doing? Am I stupid?

SPEAKER_02 6:09

So you believe another comp so I think I think what I'm getting at is sometimes when things happen like mistakes, like you just said, lowering, or or or it can be hit, not hitting goals, sometimes not directly associated with the person you hired, it may be another, you know, uh issue. So instead of trying, instead of firing, did you ever think about going on a venture together and trying to figure out where how we can solve it? Because it may be an incredible person that you're hiring, but instead what position? It can be any, like you just CAC is related to like meta-ads, right? Yeah, yeah. What if the person's great? I don't know, have much experience with meta ad, but what's a person's great at meta-ads? But there's a reason why the CAC is not being lowered. But it doesn't have to be, it's not directly associated with that person's job, it's something else. With there's something else that would contribute to. I just feel it it is I just feel it's courteous to at least have some type of conversation as opposed to just terminating the person because you didn't meet the goal that you said you'd do and figuring things out together.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

And the time frame that we set out together to do it in. So how specific were you, right? This is kind of I think it was under specific specificity. How much time am I giving that person to do that specific job? I hire a company, I say I want X by this time. They say yes, I can do this. They do not perform in that variable, that is on that company. Yep, that one is true. That's not on me to sit there and talk and go through with them and like let's figure it out. Like, I hired you at your premium price for you to get this off my mind and fix it. Not for me to come in and fix it. That's true. And then you know what? You don't have a business, now you're just back to being an employee.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

You're right. Yeah, yeah, you know what? Now that you say it, like, yeah, uh, you just gotta run your way with an iron fist, you gotta run your business with iron fist. You're right, yeah. If you hire somebody.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

If I go into any service, right? And let's say take personal training, take my industry, right? My personal training, am I it's my job as a consumer to teach my trainer how to train?

SPEAKER_02 8:18

No.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Now I get it's my job as a consumer to sit there and help you figure out how to be a better trainer. No, you're right. Yeah, yeah. Now you're hiring an expert.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Yeah, you know what? I don't, I don't contract, I get it. I get it. I I was um I think where you and I were were differing is I was talking about employees, but you're independent contract, you're right, because you're hiring an expert to do something that they said they can do. If they don't do it, then you gotta let them go. There's no way around that. Now, an employee is much is is a lot different for you or just somewhat. It's definitely different, okay. But Anthony, I'm gonna be honest with you though, I've seen you fire employees pretty quick too. Yeah, like like really fast.

Loyalty Is Tied To Growth

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah, hire slow, fire fast.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

But what do you say to those? And I told you this before, what do you say to those that say this guy has no sort of loyalty? You could be with this guy for three years, you make a mistake twice, he's gonna fire you.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

What do you say to that? So it's my job to let someone take advantage of me for three years.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Not take advantage, but at least take the steps to see how we can fix what you're doing incorrectly, as opposed to saying goodbye, go.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

What do you what are your thoughts? Do you have loyalty? I think loyalty, like I've expressed before, it's confounded with growth. Loyalty and growth are the same thing, and I've used the example of marriage. Like you could be married for your wife for 30 years. You're like your wife is just supposed to have that loyalty to it, or is it your job to grow together as a couple? Your job is to constantly win her over, win her affection back. Do you want her thinking that ah, we've been married for we're gonna be married for 30 years, that's whatever. I'm here. It's been no, you want to rule them, you want to win them over, you want to do things more for them. You wanna, it's that growth mindset of not taking advantage of a relationship. The people who take advantage of relationships are not good people.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

I think, I think this is this is bringing the point home. You're looking for A-type employees. You could be a B employee and work really, really hard, but you're just not hitting the mark. And you yourself hold yourself to a certain standard and degree, and that's why you let people go fast. There's someone that you let go from this company that worked fairly hard from what I saw, but made certain mistakes, and you said you gotta go. I think that's the difference. You have a goal in mind and you know the type of employees it's gonna take to get there. So even though you certain people may work really hard, they're not finishing tasks on time. That's gonna lead to termination for you. Things like that. It's like it is what it is. You work really hard, but you're not meeting the goals I gotta like.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Define working really hard. I think that's a silly expression.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

I mean, trying hard to complete tasks, giving it you know that extra effort, um, bringing ideas to the table, that's working hard. Someone that's innovative and bringing ideas and wanting to see me grow.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Let's let's work that out. Okay. Your job as an employer is to pave the way for your employees.

How Low Standards Spread

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I need X because ultimately the company, like I've said before, like I would fire myself if I didn't fit the CEO role. I remember that, yeah. Right? So if I have an employee, my job is to pave that way and give them those operating procedures they need to focus on the timelines they need to be correct on. If I'm constantly falling behind, I'm constantly bringing the company down, everyone else with them. So a bad employee will burn out your best employees quicker than anything else. You create a toxic culture environment from either someone talking bad about your company or someone not performing because the people always confound down. Let's let's take it to the extreme. You know I love this. Yeah. Yes. Why doesn't communism work? It's extreme. Or what doesn't work? Let's take it. I I saw an example from uh a school professor at a college. He told the kids that it doesn't matter what they score, he's gonna take the average and that's everyone's score. That's communism. So the first test, some people got A's, some people got B's, some people got C's if factor and it's a B. The next test, no one got A's. Because the people that worked their asses off. It lowers the standard to get A's said, why am I doing this? Like, why am I putting the extra work in? Why am I going X, Y, Z, and these people aren't even studying the ones getting the C's, and now they're getting a full letter grade up. It lowers the standard. So now what happened to the standard? It went from a B average to a C plus average, it drops completely, and then it dropped again to a C minus average because people just want to feed the lazy way up. Like people want to take over other people, right? Those C players or the ones getting the C on the exams are just like, why do I need to work? These people are smarter than me. Exactly. Right? So that's what we're gonna create. So take your employees as a system. You want an A player culture, you want A's on your exams. You have your C employees, and the A players watch your C employees, they're gonna be like, Why the hell am I trying?

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

And now you're doing all of them with a surface. Correct. So why do I fire quick? Because I don't want to lose those good employees.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

And do you believe every good question? Oh wow. Do you believe everyone you fired was not an A player?

unknown 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

You you don't have any regrets at all with anyone that you fired. Maybe that was I I jumped the gun on that one.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

None. Not one person.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

I usually take the exact opposite stance. I should have fired people a lot quicker. Wow.

Rewarding A Players Without Guilt

SPEAKER_00 13:55

A lot quicker. Um because that's too nice. And I was like, ah, they need the money. What about the personalized?

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Wait, say it again.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

They need the money. What about the personalized? They have they have to do this. Do you do you think of that as all the time? No, now. Do you still think they have families? I do, but then I think, you know what? This is a job, they can get another one. They bought this upon themselves. That easy though. Yeah, but it's not my responsibility. Who says you're in you're you're an employer? You're supposed to take care of people. I take care of the people that perform. And I will overtake care of the people that perform, and it will go above and beyond for the people that perform. I have no problem going above and beyond for my A players. I have no problem. You can ask any of them. Like trips, dinners, like just having conversations if they just need to talk, like whatever that looks like, thanking them for what they do. There's employees I talk to at least on a once-a-week basis, just like I really appreciate you. Really? Yeah. Because they work their butts off and they really care. Wow. And that you've always said this, your personal professional life, one-on-one are the same. There's no difference. And then two, you become the average of the five people you hang out with. Correct. Right? So you want to have those A players and more of them than you do your lower B players. Some people level up and they average themselves up to the A players. They learned that this hard work pays off. Yes. And I show that. I take the players that come in. Like I just, this is a great example. Is I had a lead nurturist. His job was just to call people. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah. Really basic, easy job. Yeah, yeah. He now runs marketing and sales as of this week. So I doubled his salary. Oh, wow. Because he deserves it. He works his butt off. He's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

I love that dude, bro. Thank you. No, no, no. The guy's really good. But it but it reflects the it reflects you. I mean, the guy to me is phenomenal. And it reflects you, the your discernment and choices in people. Let me say this now, and have you hardened through time before, like you said, you thought about you thought about before the personal life, da da da. You say you still think about it to a certain extent, right? Before you do that.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Every time I let my niceness take control, it ended up shooting me in the foot.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

But having that frame of mind, don't you think it starts to make you almost ruthless? Having that frame of mind that it starts to make a little cold.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

I used to think that. I used to think that. But then I've learned I'm helping the A players. So is it being cold or is it helping the right people? And showing the people that I care, that truly care.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Have you ever let go of someone that you liked personally? Like that's the worst ones, right?

unknown 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Those are the worst ones, right? Hurt, dude. The ones you know personally outside of work, yeah. It sucks. What has happened to those? Excuse me. Jack, tell them to keep it down, please. Tell them to keep it down. Now I lost my spot, man. It's getting good. Oh yeah. So yeah, so per so you find people that you personally like, those are the hardest ones. Anthony, now what has that done after? Do you not hire people that are mainly that was friends and family that you've worked with and stuff?

Finding Great People Is Hard

SPEAKER_02 17:22

You don't hire friends and family anymore. What would you say is the culture now in your company, your business? Do you have all A players yet? Are you still you still got some B's, you think? What's your thoughts on keeping B players, man?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

B players aren't the end of the world.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

What's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah. Ideally, it would be great to have all A players, but I think A players are so far and few in between, and they're really hard to find. Because, like, honestly, I I laugh, or they're not looking for jobs. Who's not looking for jobs? A players. Correct, because they're happy here. Well, they have even outside A players out of the companies. They're great, they usually level and let up, they usually high end of different companies. They're not indeed scrolling at midnight trying to find a job. Ah, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. That's what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. So those just develop the relationships. Yeah. Getting to know people, getting to get to know them, going out networking, you're networking to find employees now instead of finding clients. Yes. So it's a lot harder to find them. So that's why you do find them, it's so important to retain them. Now, so the example, I've I've lost A players, yeah, because I've kept on C players.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Really? Yeah. Can you give us an example without saying names or like just an example of how that played out?

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I had a couple of employees years ago that were trainers of mine that were creating a very toxic work environment.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Combining a culture, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Constantly blaming people, making fun of other employees, showing up a little late, like really signs that it and had a great employee, and he was awesome. And I didn't think it at the time. He just randomly one day is just like, nah, I'm done. He came and told you that's it. Yeah. He's like, I can't work anymore. I'm found a new job. Oh. And I was like, why? And I was like, nah, I just can't work here anymore. I never got out of that. You never knew. You never knew that you never told me. Now I know in hindsight. It's because you think that's the reason all?

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

And that's the one regret. Did you ever reach out to him again? Yeah, he moved and ended up moving completely out of state. He was good though? He was really good. What do you look for to avoid firing somebody?

What Makes An A Player

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Like what are the what are the what are the A player? Oh, it's beautiful. What are the A player player characteristics?

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I think the biggest one, they care about the place they work.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah, that's so hard. How do you see if that brings you how do you get someone to care? Let's say you try to get a B player to be an A player. Can you do that? What differentiates what differentiates a B player from an A player if you had to choose one characteristic? What is that? That's a beautiful question. I'm sorry, I had to tell myself back, guys. Tell me that's a beautiful question. That's good. I'll tell you mine and then you tell me. Passion. In their work ethic. That's the only difference. So that's how you become an A-player, is what you're saying from your you just need to be passionate. So only thing right now from your big players that you have now that the reason why you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Passionate in your work ethic. Okay. So specifically knowing that the job you have to do means a lot to you. It's I have a project that's due Monday, I'm giving it to you two days prior. Like I'm gonna stay up all night and do it. I'm calling you at 9 p.m. at night and you're awake working on this one thing because you want to perfect it, because you care about the work quality performing. That that's someone you don't want to lose.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Those that's the only so the people that are hearing this now, if they are B player people that work for you, that's how they get there. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah, go show the above and beyond, show that you care. Like, take a lower-level job like personal training, right? An A player, if I were to describe like what they do, they're always early. Like, I mean 10-15 minutes easily before their shift. Yeah, I do an hour, right? They're looking at all their client profiles either the night before before they go to bed, or the coming in an hour before and looking at everything. They're creating real deep personal relationships on the floor, and they're not talking about themselves, they're talking about the client. So instead of them talking, oh today I went to the beach and did this, they're asking their client, what the client didn't they truly care and trying to deliver above and beyond for that client. And they're creating relationships with that client. So they're like, Oh, I how was your anniversary? Tell me about it. Like they're really So you So you like that? Oh, yeah. I don't like that. I like But I'll tell you why.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

It's a service industry. Oh, okay. Well, all right, all right, all right, all right. So yours is different. Yours is different.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

This is a personal training position.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yes, correct, correct.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

I thought you joked on generally. Uh I got you. Yeah, let's say you work for me, you're training, you call out sick. Wait, say let's say you call someone calls that sick. The A player comes and covers it covers.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Right? They're they're doing that extra. Yeah, I'll cover for that, whatever. I got that. Or, hey, Anthony, I know I'm a trainer, but I would love to learn how to sell. Can you teach me how to sell? Okay, so you just okay. Initiative. Yeah, correct. Passion, getting work done, and initiative.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

And that's the A player if you're so it's not difficult, really, honestly. What else would I say?

Skill Versus Will And Culture

SPEAKER_02 22:44

What? Skill. Well, that's when you and I disagree there. That's really important, man. I think that's otherwise, what good are you? Skill can be learned. Will I don't know has to be there. The person that you just let go, you know who I'm talking about. You have skill.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah. Uh no. So you don't think so?

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Not from what I've done. Have you ever let go of someone that had high skill? But not the best will? Yeah. What what what player would you what would you rate that person? You need skill. What I'm getting is you need skill. So there's no way around that.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

High skill, low will is a C player.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

No, bro. No. They're the ones they keep the read your your lifetime of LTV is because of them. Anthony. Anthony. Personal training industry, like when you're in, you need skill. You gotta know what you're doing. You're gonna hurt somebody out there. You need high will, high skill.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

That's that's your A player. Correct. Your high skill, low will is your C player. What's B? B is like in the middle of the road, everything. Stop!

SPEAKER_02 23:51

High skill, low will is B. Low skill, low will is C. I disagree. Anthony. You need skill. LTV, you need it. If you're gonna hurt if you don't know what you're doing, you need some type of your skills gotta be pretty decent.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

You put them in the same category? Yeah. Whoa, wow. Culture and will is really a big deal for you. I used to think it wasn't. He used to hire for the opposite reason. He used to hire for skill. Oh I mean, okay, so I got a guy that works for me.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

He's low will. Definitely. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. He's low will. Like the complete zombie man. Like you can just sense it. You can tell. Talking to him. But his skill is high, dude.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

It's really good. And how does that affect the other employees around him?

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Okay. It it um damn, you know what? Yeah. Now looking at it, that's why I demoted him. Because I didn't want to follow that example, which is I just demoted him recently. You know who I'm talking about. I still love you, man. You do a great job. If you're watching this.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

You're just not gonna like this anymore.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

No, no, no, no, no. I I spoke to Bob because one thing about me is I'm very honest. I always tell the truth I feel a certain way. Uh, and I told him this already, but his his will is just is just is just no good. Bad communication.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

High skill, low will. People are gonna rub off and give the example. Yes, and that's why I demoted him. Now you're gonna lose other employees. Come on, now what's hard, what's worse? Losing a client or losing an employee? To me, losing an employee. Because a great employee is harder to find than clients. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

No, that that one is true, and that's why it demoted him. He was had he had a senior position, excuse me. And he's just the communication is poor, and you could tell the guy just didn't care, but his but he's great, man. The guy's phenomenal the way he did. But I noticed, and you're right, I noticed the behavior started to rub off on other employees that were phenomenal. And their communications got to rub. So I got on the phone call and said, We had another meeting, greet meeting. I said, I gotta be honest with you. If if I write to you guys, you don't read my message and not write back. You write back, and I noticed one girl was phenomenal, but she started to follow this guy's ways. And I said, This is late. If I say it's due Friday, that means the client told me it's due Monday. That means I'm telling you it's due Wednesday. Do you see how it works? You have it to me Wednesday, so I have time to revision, I have it Friday, and the client gets it three, four days before. But you were doing this initially until I brought this guy on, you're starting to slack off. So culture is a big deal. I get that. But the skills is what pays the, you know what I'm saying, folks, fill it in. The bills. The skills pays the bills, baby. You gotta be honest, Aunt. Without those skills, you think people would be coming here if these trainers weren't skilled?

SPEAKER_00 26:37

I think you could take someone low skill and teach them to be high skilled as long as they have the will. You think somebody's always can be can be taught to be high skilled?

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Really? Yeah, everything's teachable. And then you learned I learned it. What do you mean I learned it?

SPEAKER_00 26:49

You learned how to do your job, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Oh, yeah. I mean, I taught myself, but uh oh yeah. Because you had the will to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh uh.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

That makes sense. Because you said to yourself, I really need to learn this. But I loved it though. There's a difference. Right, you loved it. There's the will. You loved it and you knew you needed to learn it. So what did you have to do? You had low skill. Think business, for example. I had super low skill in business, but I had the will to do it. So I spent, I would say, reading every night. I would read books.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

When you say when you say business, you're talking about uh sales specifically or just overall business? Overall business. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

I would read business books, listen to podcasts, talk to people. I'd always wanted to learn new and exciting things, but because I had the will. So I was able to teach myself the skill.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

So you just need the will, pretty much, and you'll stay. So that person that you terminated, if they had the will, like, yo, I'm trying to learn like you wouldn't have fired them?

unknown 27:46

No.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

As long as they had the will, give them. Regardless of how many mistakes they will fight and like, I want this, come on. Right. So there's also a point of the actually picking it up with their own bullshit. Because then you have the people that pretend to have the will that really don't have the will. Oh, you got those two? Yeah. So I teach you how you go over the mistake. One, two, three times, I'm gonna figure it out. You pretend you want to learn it. Come on, man.

Killing The Nice Guy Mentality

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Yo, Anthony, would you say you still have people that you feel you need to let go of to elevate your company? And if so, and if so, what is your reason for not doing so with this newfound mentality?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Because I think a lot of the times can reverse this a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The versions of the individuals, including myself, who run this company, all need to die and create new versions of those individuals or have new people in order to grow in the company to level up.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Beautiful. What version of yourself do you see right now, a characteristic trait, whatever, that you feel you need to kill in order to grow?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Nice guy mentality needs to die.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

You don't think you killed it yet? I think it's dying, but it needs to die. Completely. Yeah. And what does that entail for you? Like, like what? Like what action? Like, I need to stop doing this specifically.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

I need to stop letting people step away from me. You think they still have, in it? No. Currently? Yeah. No, what? I'm getting better at it. Really?

SPEAKER_02 29:11

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

I mean in like every aspect of my life.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I was talking about business. Oh, you're talking about personal. What did I say before?

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Personal or professional life is saying.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Exactly. Okay, I was confused. I'm like, what are you talking about? I got you. And you're in another in your personal life, you feel in certain places that's happening.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

I don't want to I need to create peace. I need to create peace in business, peace in my family life with my kids. In order to create peace, you need to be a good guy. Good guys, nice to you, I'm talking to you, we're having relationships. You cross the line, we're done. There's a line.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

100%, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

You don't do this. Nice guys let people stepple over them, and people take advantage of them. This was happening for years. People took advantage all the time. I always thought it was good to be a nice guy. Always. Everyone tells me all the time, you're the nice person I met, you're the nice person I met. And they would take advantage of me. But in the the prey, the predators would find me and I'd be their prey. Because they're like, oh, this guy's easier to win one over. So when are you gonna be the predator? I'm not gonna take advantage of people. Good. That's the difference. I'm not a scumbag. I'm gonna be a good guy. Like I said, I didn't say I'm gonna be a scumbag. I didn't say I'm gonna be a dictator. I just want to be a good person.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

And what I mean by and let me clarify, folks, because Yao scum. If we're saying that, that's not what I mean. Predator in terms of gathering your team and going to hunt and achieve your dreams together, as opposed to being a prey and letting people step all over you to get their way and get their payday.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

You we have a win-win relationship. We're gonna just constantly level each other up and we're gonna have great. And we're gonna move forward and we're gonna have a great relationship, right? But it's a win-win. It's not a win-loss, it's not the other way around. It's not a lose-lose, it's a win-win. We're here to help each other. That's a good person. Yeah, I'm gonna help you succeed, you're gonna help me succeed, and we'll help each other out. One hand washes the other hand. Yeah. Take that to firing, because this is where we really started this conversation.

Why We Do Not Give Notice

SPEAKER_02 30:50

That's the whole point. That's the whole point. There's aspects of ourselves that we need to kill in order to fire people. We find difficulty in firing people because of the relationship that we fostered while they were here, and all of it pertains to firing.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

You asked very specifically, should you inform people that you're gonna fire them?

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Yes, that's where we do. Yeah, we differ there, big time.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

100% no. I just I'm sorry, man.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

I will take it to the other extreme. I don't agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

If you quit, now we have this as a in standing, like you want to give you two weeks' notice, we now fire you before your two weeks' notice runs out. Wait, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Dog. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me get this straight. If somebody puts this guy's a beast. Wait, if somebody puts it in a minute. You're laughing.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Wait till this happens to you. I'm gonna give you some great examples. Dude, how? Right. So you're not an A player. Most people aren't like not. Just use this vision of an example, right? B's and C's players. You put a two weeks notice in. It's not your company. What are you gonna start doing in those two weeks? I can come in late.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

That's not everyone knowing.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

I'm gonna start telling all the clients that I'm going somewhere else. That, yes, I can see that. I'm gonna start talking bad. People are gonna ask where I'm leaving. I'm gonna say all the bad shit about why I'm leaving. So you're building two weeks of a toxic culture of turmoil, and now you're gonna lose all your clients and other employees. I used to let people ride it out, man. And it always bit me in the foot because people will talk shit on the way out the door. People don't leave nice. So you're client-facing, like, I don't want you riding out your two weeks. Honestly, you're gonna talk shit about our company? It doesn't give you a right because you're pre two weeks in us to talk shit about my company. Like, no.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

But why is that rule uh uh pertain to everyone across not everybody's like that? Some people are, man, I appreciate the opportunity. You know what? Yeah, and they they're gentlemen, they're ladies, like I'm gonna do my job and I'm gonna go peacefully. Why is that? Don't you think it's unfair for everyone? Well, three people did to me, everyone's gonna do it. So I'm putting my two weeks and things. Well, get out of here now. It's like, dude, what the hell? We had a great one. You know why?

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Because it's impossible to replicate that behavior down. So eventually I'm gonna step out. I can have my little obscure rules like that, where's the lines, right? That right, but how can I teach an app a new manager coming in where that gray area is? Yeah. They're not gonna know, they're gonna have their own line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What if I don't agree with their line? That's the question. Right. So it needs to be black and white. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Okay. And it's clear no gray.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Right, that's why big companies do black and white. I need to be sure they can replicate this.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yeah, I see what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

If I start creating gray areas, they create their own gray areas and by the time you know it is just it's like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Yeah, it's all over the place. It's all over the place. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

So you want to keep it systematic. It's not that, yeah, some nice people will get screwed and it's it sucks. Capture of war.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

But that's why you yeah, I get you now.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

We're really just trying to keep systems in place that can outlast you so you can grow.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

I got you. I got you. Does that make sense? Yeah, 100%. Now I got you. It's sad that some people may have to get.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Now I'm gonna fire someone, even worse. So not only are they quitting, let's say I'm gonna fire some. I'm gonna give that person notice. What are you the hell they're gonna do? Oh man, I'm getting fired. Keep leaving this guy, he fired me off of this, this, this. I only have a week left working here. You know, he can go after himself. You're right.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

I mean, most people are firing is not a pleasant thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

It's not a pleasant thing. So I get you know why are you gonna inform people that you're gonna fire them? Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, most people put in there two weeks, they're informing you they're gonna quit instead of leaving you high and dry. So you would you would expect the same courtesy uh going the other way. Why? Someone, you want to fire someone. Why are you firing that person? They they fell short of the goal, the standard, whatever the case may be. They're they're hurting the business. So you gotta go.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

So are you gonna intentionally hurt the business longer after you already know it's time to go?

SPEAKER_02 34:45

So, therefore, if they don't like the way the business is running, if they on it on if the shoes on another foot from their perspective, would you agree that they don't have to put in two weeks? Any business, Anthony, I'm out, peace? How would that how would you feel if they did that? Honestly, but you see what I'm saying though? It doesn't matter. It's gotta go the same way too, though. You're right, it's gotta hurt both ways. Yeah, it gotta hurt. You can't just screw people and they not screw you. So you agree to screw you, I'm out, peace. If it's better for them, sure.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

And it would suck. And it's not gonna be fun, right? But it's in the last way, it's gonna suck for them. But I'm not gonna sit here and drag it out and make it worse.

unknown 35:18

Right?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Let's say you're dating someone. I'm gonna say, I'm probably gonna break up with you next week. Yeah, can you imagine? He's like, we got two weeks left. I just want to let you know. Next week, you and I are no longer a couple.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Yeah, that's crazy. That is crazy. Like, so thinking about it's a relationship. Let me let me ask you a question, Adley.

Reputation And Being A Good Guy

SPEAKER_02 35:45

I got a pretty, I don't even know. I haven't analyzed it recently, but my reputation's pretty good. My reputation amongst employees or former employees, not the best because I fire very fast, is what I was known to do. I became a little more lenient in the last two years. Yeah, last year and a half. What do you think your reputation is based on the decisions you have made when it comes to firing and hiring in the last year or two?

SPEAKER_00 36:10

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Do you care? Do you care about your reputation? Yeah. I care. So if you had to sit for Chris, just a second and think, like, what do what do I think the perception of people is about me? What do I think people think about me as a business owner? Based on me hiring fires.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

I think if people watch this and I think people judge me off of this in a negative way. I think clients and employees perceive me differently. And I think the hardest part is the shock.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Okay, I got you.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Right? And this is what I kind of go back to when I was talking about this a while ago. I was I've never been myself in my personal professional life. I remember you saying that, yeah. And I only started doing that on this show. Which is dope. And now I'm doing it in real life. So they're hearing this and they think to them they're seeing a different version of that.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Aha. And this, you're saying this show is the reason for that.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Yeah, like this is how I think. And I always have always people in my head and I would listen to them. Oh, I have to be nicer.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

There's a time, listen, brother. I'm gonna be honest. There's a time you call me and said, Yeah, we gotta make some adjustments with the, you know what I'm talking about, take something down because certain people don't like it. Remember that? And my response, I'm like, Anthony's not. And what did I admit? What say it again? What did I admit to you? You said you're right. You said I'm trying to be too nice. You're right, yeah, I'll leave it. This is who I I what they're saying, take down, that's who I that's what I believe. So, what do A players do? What do you mean, what do A players do? They admit where they're wrong. Oh, accountability, 100%. Yeah, you admitted it. Yeah, you always I mean you've always been like that, though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Right, that's fine. I can wanna I am wrong, I make mistakes, I save it on the city.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

You're a human being, not God, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

You take accountability for it. Yeah, but but what but what I'm trying to get at is that that's the nice guy stuff.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yeah, that's the name of the thing.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

That's what I'm that's what I'm trying to do. That's being good, that's not being nice. No, that's being nice. No, no, no, no. There's a difference. Wait, the good guy's what we want to be. The nice guy's the one that gets manipulated. Yeah, nice guys just agree with everyone and just do whatever they want.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

They told you take it down, and at that moment you agreed. At that listening to them was me being nice. I need to be a good guy and hold my ground.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you're right. Then when you spoke to him, I'm like, no, if you believe in this, why are you taking down? Because of what other people think. There's other people out there that agree with what you're taking down. So you can't appease everyone. Be you, man. And you're like, yeah, you're right. And dude, it doesn't forget about pocket. Anything you believe in, there's always gonna be someone that agrees with you, someone that hates you. You trying to appease everyone, you lose your identity in doing so. That was my point. So who cares what people think? You're gonna find your crowd and people that love us for this show because we're changing lives. Not everybody's gonna agree with you, man. Screw it. You taking it down means you're just becoming them.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

And this is this is what I want the takeaway to be.

Firing For Clients And The Brand

SPEAKER_00 38:58

The job of a business, and specifically, I could talk from my business, is to be the best version it could be for the clients that we have. Service your clients, yeah.

unknown 39:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Why would I want to disservice my clients by having really shitty people work for it? 110%. And I've had clients always say, Why do you find this person more? Because I'm trying to hire people better. Correct. And those that trust me and say, you know, Anthony, like you grew at this company, I trust you, always tell me at the end of it, like I really miss that person, but this person's way better. Bingo.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

I just told you. Then I just told you.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

That happens all the time. And I I've had clients, they get so loyal to their employees, the ones I have, that they quit with the employee.

unknown 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_02 39:43

What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_00 39:44

I mean, it's a beautiful thing because you see you want to foster relationships with the people. If they have a relationship with that trainer, they build it. Correct. Why are you stopping because that person's leaving? Like that means that I really had even more of a negative person on my team. Because a real positive person would have said, listen, like, no, he's really trying to help. Yeah, go ahead. He's trying to level up the people we have. Like everyone we bring on is better than our worst. Like our standard rule of hiring is you only hire people who are better than our worst.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

That way the level always keeps going up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

I never want to hire down.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

No, yeah, it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

You're gonna spot her down. Yeah. So you're always the new people coming in are always getting better than the people that left. And that's isn't that what you want as a client? So am I doing am I firing employees to hurt you or am I firing employees to help you?

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Well, I think the clients that leave with these employees solely were coming in for just those employees. No, not more. Say it again? I'm the one that brings them in. No, I'm talking about if they leave when the employees leave, that means the sole purpose was only for them, more so than working out. Because you wouldn't have left.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

No, they're they they switched their purpose. That's what's wild. Ah so they get they sign up to the company, to the company. I got you. And then forget. Forget that. That's the reason that you're not. And then we would say, well, I'm here for them. No, you didn't know that person until I brought them in.

unknown 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I'm the one who paired you up. I'm the one who did it in the right way, right? Like your loyalty should be with the company.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

And Anthony, and that's why, and this is a really good episode, actually. That's why when you said earlier, oh, I like when my employees foster relationships with them. That's why I don't.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Because I need them to foster relationships because the client keeps coming back to the facility itself. But that you also need to foster relationships with the company as a brand. How do you how do you separate the two? How are you gonna do that? It's personal training. How are you gonna separate the two? Great

Retaining A Players With Pay

SPEAKER_00 41:29

question. Okay. Here's the really hard answer.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Pay your employees more. How does that solve it? Right. So you have A players. How do you keep an A player? Stop thinking about how you find an A player, how do you keep an A player? One, we talked about it before. You kept C players on your team. The A player is gonna quit or start bringing their standards down. So you have to fire all your C players. Yeah. That's how you keep an A player. Remember those one person I didn't complain about? Right. So that's rule one.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Yeah, I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

So why do you fire quick? You fire quick because you don't want to lose your A player. You want to retain the RP? You need those people, they're great. So fire those C players super freaking quick. What are the reasons do A players leave? They can't afford to live. Pay them more. An A player can give you 10 times the output a C player can.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

That's I agree with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

So pay them 20% more. It's a win-win.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Okay, but how do you still allow those clients to foster a relationship equally with the with the players? Because I don't, my player is never gonna leave. So I want them to foster. I'm fostering a relationship with my A players. Correct. And it transcends to the client because I know you're gonna say. So even if your purpose is to come in for this uh member, you're just so much.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

I heard a great quote from Nosy, and I'm gonna start asking it. He sits down with people after he knows they're A players, and he's like, What do I have to do to keep you here until you retire? That's a powerful that's that's pretty powerful. That's pretty powerful. I need to start asking that. I'm gonna sit down with my A players and ask. Just run podcasts with them. Right. Let's run podcasts with them. How do I keep you at this company until you retire? That's gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

That's gonna take an awful lot.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Right, but they're worth it. 100%. Are you willing to go that far? Yes. Okay. But I'm gonna fire out my C Pliers as quick as humanly possible because I have the money to pay them.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

So you have to fire quick. Get rid of the shit. Get rid of the people who take advantage of you, get rid of the people prey on you.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Like, bye.

Final Lessons On Peace And Standards

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Get rid of them. Anthony, let me ask you, closing out, and we need to do this every episode. What did you learn from this episode? Accounting. Did you learn anything to give you insight on anything, or just reinforce something you believed already?

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Doing these episodes, and this is all of them as a whole, gets rid of the guilt that was putting me as a child and an adult that I always felt about why I had to keep relationships. And it's a reminder that guilt is the nice person taking control. The nice guy. And that nice guy needs to go.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

So at this point, you feel like you said, slowly it's it's helping you to level up. Do you still feel like there's still a nice guy in you you need to kill? And these episodes just help you do that every day.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah, I'm not perfect, man. It's probably gonna struggle with the rest of my life. I had really, really bad guilt for years and years and years and years and years and years and years. Guilt to the extreme where I would keep people that were actively hurting me. Like from an outside perspective, it's like, what's wrong with that person? Why is he letting that happen? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that's wild. I need to cut those people. I got an employee that was stealing from me. That was bugged out. But you didn't know that. But even when I found out, I felt bad for him. I had a thought one night. I'm like, I felt bad for that person I fired. What's he gonna do for money? That guy was stealing from me.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah, but here's the thing though, bro. I gotta be honest with you, Ann. I get you're trying to kill the nice guy, but at the same time, you're still a human being. You still need empathy. Um, or sympathy, rather. And you you can't you just can't become cold and harsh. That's not being cold though.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

That's the difference. I'm trying to create peace. I'm not trying to be cold, I'm trying to create peace.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Uh so I don't get but I don't what I'm saying is I don't want you to fault you. I what I'm saying specifically, I don't want you to fault yourself for saying what is he gonna do for me. That's a humanized, that's a decent way to think. I want to have the courage to stand up for myself and keep my peace.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

That's what I'm making out of everything. Correct. It's not about being cold, it's not about being heartless, it's just extremes on both sides. Correct. Right? Correct, but it's understanding that I don't need overpowering guilt to force me to do things that are definitely not right. That are not beneficial, yes. You right? Like I need to do things that are right for myself first, for my company, yeah, for my wife, and for my kids. And like that in and of itself is the most important thing. I need to protect that.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

That's my foundation, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Right? Create that, foster that, and have peace inside of that.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

I think that's a true form of happiness. And I think for me, this episode, what I learned is which I knew, but it kind of reinforced it, is my my number one duty is to service my clients first, even if it means letting go of somebody that has high skill. Because culture and cancer spreads and essentially will destroy your company. You do less of a service to your clients. So you have to be able to let people go, regardless of how skilled they are, if you know it's doing a disservice to you, and essentially it's gonna have a disservice to your company. Because you can't perform at the same uh uh rate or skill set. So yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I learned. Calendably's leverage, man. Thanks, Ant. Appreciate it, guys.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Don't forget, like, subscribe, share. Until next time. Catch you. Peace.