Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Sex, Postpartum, and Breastfeeding
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Colleen Weeks and I continue our conversation and discuss the challenges and changes in the fourth trimester, the 3-month time period after birthing a baby. Topics include hormone changes, the 6-weeks suggested for healing, why you may need lubrication for sex, and how fatigue affects sexual arousal. We also dive into breastfeeding to answer some common questions, such as does breastfeeding work as birth control, and why milk leaks or spurts with sex. You’ll hear thoughts on parenting roles, the mental load and communication strategies between partners to help you navigate this often-overwhelming season of change.
For more than 40 years, Colleen Weeks has passionately worked with childbearing women and their families as a Certified Childbirth, Lactation and Sex Educator, Certified Perinatal Bereavement Counselor and Maternal Mental Health Specialist. At Kaiser Permanente Orange County’s Anaheim and Irvine Medical Center’s she is the Perinatal Education manager. Colleen serves on the Family Violence Prevention team where she piloted an (ACE’s) Adverse Childhood Experience’s project and coordinates the FVPP Ambassador program.
Learn more about these topics
Why do I bleed after a baby (video)
Lube. Lube. Lube
Pain and Sex
Sex After Baby
What Pelvic Health Has To Do With Painful Sex
Stretched-out Vaginas and Other Myths
Your Body After Baby
Mental Load
Learning to Listen to Your Body
Reclaim Your Arousal Mindset
Scheduling Sex
ORDER my Book: Permission for Pleasure: Tending Your Sexual Garden
JOIN my Newsletter: Good Education for Good Sex
FOLLOW on Instagram @cindyscharkey
VISIT my website and blog
Welcome to Revision for Pleasure. I'm Cindy Sharkey, your host. I'm delighted you're here, and you're joining me for part two of my conversation with Colleen Weeks, my colleague. She has worked with childbearing women and families for over 40 years. And in part one, we talked about all things pregnancy, breast changes, sex. And now we're going to move into postpartum, breastfeeding, changes in sex. And if you miss part one, please go back so that you can learn more about Colleen and also just have a lot of context for this part of the conversation because we're going to jump right back in. Colleen, let's talk about the fourth trimester.
SPEAKER_00Oh boy, I love this topic. I am so glad to be back. Thank you, Cindy. I love talking about postpartum because I love the babies, but what I really love is the mommies and the couples. And the biggest change in their life is becoming parents. It changes every single thing. And I love this season of new change. What an opportunity for growth. You know, everybody tells you this, but you look back many years later and you say, This was such a beautiful time in my life, full of challenges, without a doubt. But what a beautiful time in my life when I have those babies. I love that saying, pregnancy and birth, it's the only blind date and the first time you meet that person that you're going to fall in love. The research shows that only about 50% of new parents fall in love immediately, but the other 50%, it takes a few weeks. But you do fall in love with that baby. They absorb your life more than you can ever imagine. And one of the things when I'm teaching that I love to tell people is everything about becoming a new parent, about pregnancy, about becoming a new parent is more than anyone could tell you it will be. People tell you all the time, like, oh, pregnancy is a big deal. And oh yeah, I know it's gonna be a big deal. And then you become pregnant, you're like, oh my gosh, this is more of a big deal than I ever imagined it would be. And then you've got that baby in your arms, and people tell you you're gonna be tired, and you're like, I'm sure I'll be tired. And then you have that baby and you're like, I have never been this tired in my life, and I could never have imagined how tired I would be. I've never felt this tired. This is so tired. I'm tired, tired, tired. Nobody could have prepared me for how tired I would be. And then people tell you you're gonna love your baby, and of course I'm gonna love my baby. And then you love your baby, and you're like, I never imagined the depth of love for this baby. It's like my heart is outside my body. I can't imagine. You're gonna feel intimidated by what an overwhelming responsibility it is to be a parent. Yeah, that's gonna be a big responsibility. And then when you have them, oh my gosh, the depth of responsibility you feel for that baby. Every bit of it is more than anyone can tell you. I've said that in my teaching for years and years, and people nod their head, and then when I catch up with them, they're like, you're right, I couldn't have guessed. Nobody could have told me. Everything is more than I could have ever imagined. And it's the same thing with sexuality, because those seasons, it's a big deal. The seasons are changing, and it doesn't mean that's bad, it just means it's a season and it's different. So the sexuality season, yeah, it's a season and you will adapt, but it's a season. Feelings come and go, they will not stay the same, but it's important to know that you're going to be able to adapt to these seasons. And the first one is once the baby is born, you are to refrain from sexual behaviors, all sexual behaviors, and you have to wait for a few things. So your doctor or midwife will tell you to wait for sex six weeks. There's a little flexibility in that, but you're waiting for some specific things.
SPEAKER_02Okay, before you get into things, I'm just gonna say I feel really strongly that the six weeks is I call it a it's a suggestion. Right. And not everybody is ready for sex in six weeks. In fact, tons and tons of people are not ready. So, as medical professionals, what we're looking for to happen in this six weeks, so hit it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, all right, absolutely. Medically speaking, waiting for the red blood to stop. And it starts with a heavy red flow, diminishes an amount, goes to a brown, and then it goes to the clear mucus, and it'll be a whole lot less clear mucus than you had during pregnancy. In fact, probably pretty dry. And that takes about 10 days to three weeks. Sometimes you'll still be having a little bit of a red tinge up to six weeks. That's the number one thing.
SPEAKER_02Okay, Colleen, let's tell them because this was a frequent question. Okay, what about my bleeding was decreasing and decreasing, and then like today it was so much more. What should I do?
SPEAKER_00Well, it probably means that you were doing too much physically and you need to rest. That's what it usually means. But if it continues, you need to call your doctor and midwife and find out why. And they need to give you some advice, bring you in, check you out, but they need to follow up with that. But it usually means that you are doing too much physically and you need to rest. Good question, Cindy. Thank you. And by the way, this applies whether you have a vaginal birth or a cesarean birth. It is both things. So first the red blood flow has to stop. The second thing is the perineum has to heal. So the perineum is that tissue between the opening of the vagina and the rectum. So if you've had any damage or an epesiotomy, which is an incision or a tear, that has to completely heal. And then you have to have some type of contraception. The contraception counseling doesn't happen until that six-week postpartum visit. If you wanted to regain sexuality and intercourse prior to that six-week visit, you would want to use a condom. If you had a diaphragm before, it doesn't fit anymore, your IUD is not put back in, but you're going to need to use a condom and some appropriate lubrication with the condom.
SPEAKER_02We're going to talk more about that, but wait a minute. I'm going to be your student over here. Okay. Well, I heard though, Colleen, that if I'm breastfeeding full-time, I can't get pregnant.
SPEAKER_00Well, that is a brilliant question. Is that true or false? Breastfeeding, if you are exclusively breastfeeding, no bottles at all, exclusively breastfeeding. Ovulation causes menstruation. We are always fertile before we know it. Breastfeeding delays ovulation, but you can ovulate before you menstruate. We are always fertile before we know it. And I am not a big gambler. I am not going to go to Vegas and count on that not fertile and become pregnant. So breastfeeding is not a good indicator and not a surefire way to not get pregnant. As much as I would love the business and have people back in my childbirth education classes, I'm going to tell them you do not want to count on breastfeeding as a contraceptive.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Okay.
SPEAKER_00And it really only delays ovulation if you're exclusively breastfeeding and not providing a single bottle at all. And you still can't count on it. So I'm not that kind of a gambler. I would not do that. Use the condom, absolutely. Review back, red bleeding stop, perineum has healed, using contraception. And then the big one that you address, Cindy, is being emotionally ready. And that's not just the mom, that's also the partner. You both have to be emotionally ready. And emotionally ready means internally, am I ready to do all of this? Am I feeling romantic? And what is the biggest killer of arousal is fatigue. How do you describe any new parent you've ever met? Physically exhausted.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Because what did we just talk about? Physical exhaustion. When you've got a baby that is being fed every hour to three hours around the clock because that's what they need to be doing, is being fed constantly. They're waking, they're crying, you're emotionally drained. Fatigue is not an aphrodisiac. They're physically and emotionally drained. So where you kind of started was where I was heading. People are tired and fatigued. It takes a while to regain that emotional readiness, and fatigue is a big piece of that. So if there's any incentive for getting enough rest and working together to get enough rest, there it is. Getting your sex life back is to getting enough rest. There's all kinds of controversy about sleep training, and the American Academy of Pediatrics talks about letting the baby naturally find a way of sleep training. That is not our topic today. Those rigid sleep trainings are not recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics. They're not safe for babies feeding and development. So that's just a little bit of an aside.
SPEAKER_01Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_00So it takes a while to be ready.
SPEAKER_02Oh, 100%. And the reason I called this discussion the fourth trimester is because, especially in the United States, we just do such a disservice here to women and families and couples in not preparing them for the length of postpartum, which is not six to eight to ten weeks. Okay, it is much longer than that. And you have to remember you carried and birthed a whole human.
SPEAKER_00You create a person, it's an unbelievable task. And when you look at social media and the magazines and all these celebrities that are back in their tight clothes and looking sexy on the red carpet in such a short amount of time, and the insinuation is that everything is back to their hot selves in such a short amount of time. That is not a healthy message because that's not reality.
SPEAKER_02No, and we do not need to get back to anything. If you want to hear more about this topic, please listen to episode 18 with Wendy Powell, Body After Baby, because we discuss this at length. That there's nothing to get back to. Don't buy into that.
SPEAKER_00We're a new person in a new season of life. We're parents.
SPEAKER_02100%. Okay, wait, let's go back to hormones. Tell us about the hormones and what is going on in this stage.
SPEAKER_00Well, the big thing is that the hormones in pregnancy increase by 10 times their original amount. There's an immediate drop, like by 30% when the placenta detaches from the uterine wall. That is incredible drop. Never will happen again in your life unless you have another baby. That is just huge. Then the hormones of oxytocin, which is the love hormone, and prolactin, which is the hormone that helps you make breast milk, those will continue. And then the thyroid hormone stays very low for the first year of your baby's life. So there's all kinds of things that are going on with our hormones for the first year of the baby's life, and that is a really important thing to recognize. The hormones oxytocin and prolactin, they actually cause us to be physically drawn to our baby. So we've got this baby skin to skin at our breast, bodily connected all day. Whether we're breastfeeding or not, that baby is connected to us all day, every day. We are touching, cuddling, holding. We are physically touched throughout the day, throughout the night. And so the hormones are playing a part, but the physical connection is playing a part. And I know that we get touched out when we're parents, the partners too. Partners are touching and parenting all day, too. They're touching and loving and cuddling. And sometimes by the end of the day, we are just touched out and we just need a break and some independence and some time alone. And that impacts our sex lives as well.
SPEAKER_02That's a really, really important thing to talk about. And boy, this comes up with women a lot when I'm doing consults with them, and I'm sure in your teaching, I always want to give a little language to this because we talked in part one about how important communication is, and we're gonna bring that up again here because there is no other way but to talk about it. Yes. So to say, even if you're feeling touched out as a new mom, and your partner's really wanting to connect physically, maybe your six months post-partum. Right. The communication piece here is huge. It is that saying and communicating, I desire you, I want us to be connected. I want us to feel sexually intimate together. And you see what this is where I'm at. The baby never leaves me, feels like never leaves me. My skin and body is like overloaded with touch. Like Colleen's calling it touched out. And it doesn't mean that I don't want you. It doesn't mean that I don't desire you. Could we just lay in bed and hold hands and connect this way? Could we just eye gaze? Could we just look at each other in the eyes and communicate how much we love each other without touching? I want you to know you know how I feel, but I am overwhelmed with touch.
SPEAKER_00I am overwhelmed with touch, and then sometimes the parenting roles are, you know, I'm a little reluctant to say this, but sometimes the parenting roles are imbalanced by the mother. And it's not the other partner's fault or the father's fault, because the mother has taken on the parenting role. There's a tradition that the mother is the primary parent and the father is the person that goes off to work, and the mother's like, I know this baby and I know how to do this. You just step aside and I will take care of the baby. And the father feels like I would be more involved and more the active partner in parenting, but you always tell me I don't know how to do it. At Kaiser Permanente, we have a program called Boot Camp for New Dads and Boot Camp for New Moms. And the boot camp, the fathers will express very loudly that I have to work hard to say, let me take this. I'm not going to learn what the baby needs unless I take it more and take it on more. And once she allowed me to take it on, then I learned what the baby liked and what, you know, the trick and the the little specific things. Oh, this is how the baby is comforted. And dads parent differently. And that's a good thing for infant development, is to learn this is a dad thing and this is a mom thing. But sometimes the mom kind of clusters the baby to herself, not allowing the dad to learn their own parenting style and what the baby likes. And then it kind of perpetuates that mom being touched out and not having some free time. Parents parent differently, and that is a good thing for babies to learn.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00So allowing the father to spend more time when they're home with the baby gives the mom more free time and less feeling touched out. And then when they have time together, then she's more apt to want to have physical intimacy with her partner.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00It's a communication thing and a learning thing and adapting to parenting thing. That was something I was very fortunate to be in a developmental preschool where I learned that when our daughter was really young, and something that we started from a very young age is one night a week was Daddy Donna Date Night. And this was many years ago. You know, she's in her 40s, but it was a wonderful thing. And it started off that he took her out to the park and they fed the ducks, and then it it graduated to Chuck E. Cheese. And then in the teenage years, they went gene shopping, which I hated to do because it would take them weeks, and she twirled around in the stores trying on jeans. And he was happy to just sit and let her twirl around trying on jeans. And I had an agenda, let's get the jeans and get out of here. But it grew into such a positive thing, and as adults, they have such a great relationship, and I'm so thankful for it. But it started in infancy, and it was a really good thing, and I'm so thankful for that.
SPEAKER_02That's a beautiful example. It's interesting. I talked about this exact piece of advice in our mental load episode with Morgan Cutlip. I hope if you haven't heard that, the listeners, you'll go back and listen to that because my best piece of advice to new parents is I was a nurse, so I tried to be in charge of everything, right? But the best piece of advice I got, and I pass on, is let your partner parent their way. It doesn't have to look like your way. Is the baby fed, safe, changed, beautiful? Let it be what it is. Absolutely. That will help perpetuate the kind of situation Colleen's talking about. So I love that you brought that up. So let's talk back to. We talked about physical changes, and I'm gonna say one more word about that, and then we're gonna move into more of expectations and painful sex and all of it. Remember again, six weeks is a suggestion, not a mandate. And with all these years working with women, I really encourage you to not put anything in your vagina until your body is ready and wanting it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So this idea comes up so often with women of just gutting it out, just having intercourse because maybe they should have air quotes going, or they feel a duty to do that. This kind of sex is a desire killer, number one, and number two, it can perpetuate pain because your body remembers. So this is a very big topic, but I want to mention it here and encourage you to listen and pay attention to your body. And like Colleen talked about in part one, trust your body and listen to her and communicate with your partner.
SPEAKER_00I love that you said that, Cindy, it sets up a really sad pattern. Because if you do that once, you'll do it again and again. But it's easy enough to have touching and foreplay and stop prior to intercourse, and then the next time when you're ready and you want penetration, you just move one step at a time. I like to think of it back in the dating days, you know, you didn't always end everything with intercourse. Uh like when teenagers talk about first base, second base, third base.
SPEAKER_02It's always a sports analogy, isn't it? But I would encourage you to just consider what we're saying here, and again, thinking outside of the box of intercourse, especially in this stage, and what feels comfortable to you in stages, and meaning one stage to the next or one base to the next, so that you're ready and wanting. Ready and wanting is where you want to be, and a big piece of that is communication. Let's talk more about what we want to be communicating about in this stage, Colleen.
SPEAKER_00Well, a couple of things that you want to communicate about. First is lubrication.
SPEAKER_01100% from the lube fairy. Let's talk.
SPEAKER_00I've learned so much from you about different types of lube, but lube is going to be key, and experimenting with different types of lube and finding out what works for you. Because when you're breastfeeding and your hormones have changed, dryness is very, very common. So finding something that is lube for foreplay, but also for intercourse, and finding something that works for you and that stays slick and moist, and I think that that's going to be a really key thing. So having things available. Cindy, go through your list of types of lubes. Would you do that? Since you are the lube fairy.
SPEAKER_02You know what I think I'll do here is just refer to the lube episode, which is a short little quickie, but goes through all the types, and I'll link it in the show notes. But I want to say about lube because this comes up in this season. So many people say, We've never used lube before. I've never even thought of using lube. Isn't it just for old ladies? I mean, oh, have mercy. Okay, no. Lube is your friend, and this is a perfect time to introduce lube into your sex life. And this is how you can frame it. I get women all the time. I don't know how to tell my partner. I mean, that this is something I want to introduce, right? Then you say, I listen to this podcast all about postpartum and sex, or you could read my blog. I have a whole blog on sex after baby on my website. You can read that together. And did you know my hormones really dropped and they're in flux and I'm breastfeeding and so much I won't make lubrication moisture like I used to. I'm not gonna lube like I used to. I didn't even realize that, but I just read that and they said using lube will help that and help me not have pain. And for it to be comfortable and enjoyable, and that makes me want to do it. How do you feel about us trying that?
SPEAKER_00Just a conversation like that, right, Colleen? Absolutely. Simple as can be. And I'm not lubricating, not because I don't like you and I don't want to have sex with you.
SPEAKER_02Ding ding ding.
SPEAKER_00It's not because of you, it's because of my hormones and what my body is doing right now as a postpartum mom and a breastfeeding mom. It's not because I don't love you anymore.
SPEAKER_02Such an important point. I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I think often partners feel like we've talked about here often on like maybe she's not interested in me anymore, or her attention's all on the baby, and I'm just sort of over here, like I want to connect, you know, or maybe I'm not attractive to her anymore. I mean, right, right. Communicating in this way, the way Colleen and I are saying, this opens the conversation.
SPEAKER_00Right. And especially after pregnancy, when it was the exact opposite situation, where they've got so much vaginal discharge and they are lubed all day, every day. And now it's the complete opposite situation. So this is a big change that's going on in their bodies.
SPEAKER_02And you may find that you love it and want to always have it on hand, right, Colleen?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, absolutely. Now, once you've got that first lube, you're going to keep it in stock, absolutely. Well, then the other thing is about the pelvic floor and keggle exercises, because whether you've had a vaginal birth or a cesarean birth, if you've had a cesarean birth, the baby has been sitting on your pelvic floor throughout that whole pregnancy. It changes the pelvic floor muscles. If you've had a vaginal birth, the baby's been sitting there through the pregnancy, but it's also come through those muscles and stretched them to their capacity. If you've had an episiotomy, which is an incision in the perineum, which is the tissues between the opening of the vagina and the rectum, or you've had any tearing and you've had some repair work done, so you've had an invasion of those tissues, you've got to get the muscles, the pelvic floor muscles back in shape. So doing that kegle exercises where you can contract the muscles, pulling up and towards your rectum and holding for several seconds and then releasing and doing that many times during the day. The way that you test the pelvic floor is that you hold the way you would stop the flow of urine and release. You should be able to get up in the morning with a full bladder and hold that urine and kind of do a dribble-dribble stop a few times. You don't want to do it all the time on the toilet, but it's a great way to test that you've got a strong pelvic floor, but you want to get those muscles in good shape. They're going to help you control the flow of urine and not leak urine when you sneeze. It's very common at the end of pregnancy when you've got a baby sitting on your bladder and your pelvic floor to sneeze and pee, but you don't want to be doing that after you've had a baby for the rest of your life. So you want to get your pelvic floor in good, strong shape, the way you contract your abdominal muscles after you've given birth to a baby and get back in shape after you've had a baby and get strong again. But you want to get that pelvic floor strong. And that also increases pleasure during sexual activity. And so if you're struggling with your pelvic floor after, you can talk to your healthcare provider about seeing a pelvic floor physical therapist. I know, Cindy, you've had them on your podcast. You want to talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_02I do because oh, I feel so strongly about this. I really feel like every person who has carried a pregnancy for nine months and bird the baby should have a pelvic floor evaluation. I know that's not going to happen for everybody, but I want to say if you have any issues with continuing to leak urine, painful intercourse, not feeling like you can support your bowel and uterus, you know, and they're not staying where they should. I'm trying to use language that makes sense. All of these things can be helped with pelvic floor therapy. So please, please listen to episode eight with Heather Jeff Coat, who is a pelvic floor physical therapist, and we talk a lot about these specific things because even though things can be common, meaning leaking urine is common, but it's not normal. Okay? Painful sex? The studies show nine out of ten women report pain during sex postpartum, even up to six months. This is common, but not normal. And I don't want you to be sitting here thinking, well, my sister said she laughs and wets her pants, and she her baby's three, or my cousin told me that she still has pain with sex and her baby's two. But because these things are common and just lived with doesn't make them normal and okay. Please ask for a referral for pelvic floor therapy.
SPEAKER_00Right. Pelvic floor physical therapists, or there's a specialist called a Eurogynecologist who can support you as well. And you can check into your insurance, your gynecologist, your primary care physician, and get a referral. And there are so many support systems that can help you. In fact, the research shows that women will, on the average, leak urine when they cough or sneeze or exercise for an average of 10 years. They will suffer with incontinence for an average of 10 years before they seek help. Don't do that, or that they will suffer with painful intercourse for years before they seek help and never talk to anybody about it. There's help available, it is fixable, there are all kinds of different therapies and support systems. Cindy is right, get help. They're readily available, the therapists, the physical therapists, and the physicians.
SPEAKER_02Yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_00That's so important.
SPEAKER_02Let's talk about maybe a couple really practical things to help avoid painful intercourse in this stage because this is a very big topic, postpartum. I mean, yes, you can go over and read my blog and all of that, but I do want to say make sure that you are allowing for enough arousal time for your body to be aroused and ready and wanting, like I talked about, to engage in intercourse. Also, lube, we've talked about that. I'm gonna keep saying it. Lube is your friend. Try lube. Also, we talked a little bit about positions in part one, but this is important in part two here with our fourth trimester and into postpartum. Deciding what's comfortable with the changes in your body and trying different positions and again thinking out of the box, like we talked about, Colleen, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02What things would be interesting for you to try? What could you do outside of intercourse to get your body aroused, to connect with your body, to feel the feelings and want to engage sexually? These are important things to investigate and talk about with a partner.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you've got so many of your different podcasts that talk about different opportunities and changing the time of day, taking a bath, a soaking in the bathtub before having a time of intimacy, changing positions, bringing toys in. There's so many different things to experiment with that just going back to simple old tried and true, missionary at bedtime, that may not be working now. You've got new seasons of life, and there are different things to experiment with. If you're hoping to have a lifetime in partnership with this co-parent that you have created this baby with, the best thing you can give your child is a partner that you're going to parent them with for the rest of their life. And so making your sex life a priority is a really key thing to do.
SPEAKER_02It is a really key thing to do. You're right. I think one other thing I want to bring up here is that I have a lot of times I have women postpartum concerned with changes and this season and like something's not working right, or they feel disconnected from their body. And I encourage them to have some sessions of just touching their own body if they're comfortable with self-pleasure and masturbation, because it helps women figure out at this stage, oh, I work, I'm okay. This works for me. Oh, this is different. Interesting. I used to like that. I don't like that anymore. And then what you learn, you can communicate with your partner if this is comfortable for you. I just think it's a it's a beautiful way to reconnect with yourself.
SPEAKER_00That's beautifully said, Cindy.
SPEAKER_02And that will help you reconnect with a partner. Another thing that comes up so often, and you've talked a little bit about being touched out, but so often what comes up is the mommy saying, I can't flip that switch from mommy to lover. This is such a hard issue in postpartum and beyond. Just being a parent, right? And just getting out of that parent role and switching your hat to lover role is is difficult. And you haven't had to really do it before now. So it's new.
SPEAKER_00It's a whole new season. Your life just changed from being lovers and together and free to do whatever you want to do whenever you want. Let's, oh, last minute go to a movie, let's last minute take a walk. And now everything is centered around that baby. I've had more parents tell me I had no idea that every thought will be filtered through a sieve of how do I do this with the baby? Every bit of my life is centered around that baby. And you actually have to make plans and schedule time, like I'm gonna get the baby to sleep, take a nap, or you know, take a bath, take a nap, do whatever so that we have some time together, but you actually have to make plans to do that so that I can see us as a couple again. Otherwise, your whole life will always forever be focused around I'm only a parent now. Whatever it was that brought you together is still there, but you have to make plans to remember this is still a a key of our family is that we are a couple.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and I think it's really important to allow yourself some transition time too. Some, you know, I call it transition time, but a time to kind of mentally and physically switch out of mommy, mommy, mommy, or daddy, daddy, daddy, and yes. Where am I? Let me find myself here so then I can engage as a lover with you, and allowing ourselves that time, whether that's five minutes or 25 minutes, whether that's a bath or changing your clothes or brushing your hair or listening to one song and moving, or there's tons of things you could do. But making that a priority and saying, This is important. I need this little window of time to transition and really be present myself.
SPEAKER_00Transition is the best word, and I think of when you say I wear different hats, even just mentally saying, I've got the mommy hat on right now, I'm gonna set it aside and I'm gonna put the lover hat on. And maybe putting the lover hat on is taking the bath or putting on some soft music or whatever we do with when we do romance, mentally saying, I'm taking the mommy hat and I'm not throwing the mommy hat away. I'm just setting it aside right now to put the lover hat on. And whatever we do when we put the lover hat on, making that a specific strategic step, putting the lover hat on.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that's good. And keeping a sense of humor. How about that?
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. If we didn't have a sense of humor, would we be where we're at? Because, like, oh my goodness, we could lose it without a sense of humor.
SPEAKER_02Well, and even in the breastfeeding stage, especially you talked about breasts and leaking breasts in part one, but let's talk about part two here.
SPEAKER_00Let's talk about part two and leaking breasts. If I go to like a new mom support group and do a presentation on postpartum the fourth trimester and sexuality, inevitably, oh Cindy, it's so funny. Inevitably, the speaker, obviously, I come in and I'm the new person in the group, and somebody will grab me in the corner and say, Can I talk to you for a second? I've got a personal question. They'll say, you know, I'm a breastfeeding mom, and when we're making love, I will um sometimes spurt breast milk. Is there something wrong with me? And you can tell they've just got like this guilty thing on their face, like mortified. Yeah, mortified. Should I call child protective services on myself? I'm making love and making milk at the same time, and they think I must be some kind of a pervert or something. And I know it's gonna happen every time I go to one of these groups and I just giggle and I say, No, you're absolutely normal, and I'm already gonna address it anyway, and I'm gonna address it, but I won't call you out. But you're totally normal. So what happens is our breasts, when we're breastfeeding, our breasts are never empty. Even after the baby feeds, our breasts are never empty because they're always producing. And there's that demand and supply principle. So when the baby suckles at the breast, they're always producing. And if our breasts are full when we make love, and then there's that oxytocin, prolactin, milk ejection reflex, milk letdown. The letdown is actually called the milk ejection reflex. So when the milk moves from the chest wall forward to the nipples and arelas, the milk moves forward. And if there's any pressure on our breasts, they will literally spurt and fly. It's kind of an incredible thing that that milk can, you know, shoot across the room. It's a novelty. This isn't going to be happening in your whole life if you are making love. It's going to be happening while you're a breastfeeding mom. So either you look at this as an entertaining novelty, or you look at it like it's fun and entertaining, or you look at it like this is not my cup of tea or my cup of milk, and you make sure that you feed the baby before you make love, or you pump so that your breasts have very little milk in them when you make love, or you wear a sexy bra with some nursing pads, or you know, you just, you know, whatever. You roll with it. You find a solution to be entertained or empty or empty out as best you can. What works for you.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. What works for you. I just love, yeah, I love the way you're describing this, and it's such a common scenario, but nobody talks about it. They come and whisper and ask you because nobody's talking about these things that are so normal and natural.
SPEAKER_00I'm a lactation specialist, so when I teach a breastfeeding class, I always address it, and I want people to know up front, up ahead, so that when it happens, hopefully they just laugh and think that that's fun and entertaining, and they don't think that there's something wrong with them. Because trust your body, this is how it's made to work.
SPEAKER_02Again, trust your body. We're gonna probably have to wrap up here. This is such an expansive topic. We could probably talk forever. And maybe if you're listening and thinking, oh, this is very overwhelming. This is a lot of information, just save the episode and revisit it when you can take the information in. That's a normal way to feel. It's a lot of lot of information. But what are we missing here? Maybe one piece of advice, Colleen, that you would want every postpartum mom or parent to know, or maybe something just vital that maybe we just must cover before we wrap up.
SPEAKER_00Well, Cindy, I think it goes back to what we talked about is a reminder to trust our bodies. They are made to work. We are sexual beings. And we are made to conceive babies, we are made to carry pregnancies, we are made to labor, we are made to give birth, we are made to breastfeed our babies. And yes, there are glitches in those things. And, you know, when those glitches happen, that's what healthcare providers are for. It's we're to be there to look to make sure things are staying within the range of normal, and when they're not, we step in. But for the most part, things work. And when there is a glitch, yes, we treat those things, but for the most part, our bodies are made to work, and we can just rejoice in that and be happy and see that things are happening the way that they're supposed to. And if we have questions, we look to people that have a higher level of knowledge and ask. But for the most part, our bodies are made to work. Trust our bodies.
SPEAKER_02I love that. That's beautiful. Colleen, people may want to reach out to you. Is there a way they could find you in your work in the world?
SPEAKER_00They sure can. Just send me an email. My email address is colleenweeks at yahoo.com. That's spelled C O L L E E N W E E K S at Yahoo.com.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. You know we share things that delight us on this show. Do you have a delight you might want to share? Something that brings you pleasure.
SPEAKER_00I sure do. My family and spending time with them, but really love to spend time with them is on the water. We are so blessed to live in Southern California and at the beach and by the sea. And I love to be out on the water in God's creation, looking at all the beautiful things that He has made and be out on the water, and any opportunity I have to be out on the water is just great joy to me.
SPEAKER_02Love the water with you. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise, your wisdom, and just your care. You have such a deep care for women and families. I hope that the listeners can hear that through your voice today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Cindy, for the opportunity. Thank you for all the good that you are doing and have done and for uh being a friend for so many years.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Colleen. And listeners, please do remember to rate and review the show, and that really helps others get education and find the podcast. I hope you're following the show too, so you don't miss an episode. And so until next time, keep giving yourself permission for pleasure.
