LegCon 2026: Why RTO Advocacy Matters More Than Ever

Pete Shau sits down with Amberlee Maya and Charles Smitherman to recap LegCon 2026, APRO’s legislative conference in Washington, D.C. They discuss the power of industry advocacy, the growth of first-time attendees, the importance of building relationships with lawmakers and staffers, and why the rent-to-own industry must continue telling its own story with one clear voice.

Transcript

Welcome And Subscribe Requests

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Hello and welcome to the RTO show. I'm your host, Pete Shao. Listen, I'm talking to you today with my producer Anthony. We want to talk to you a little bit about what's going on in DC. Before we do, want you guys to know only half of you are that are listening to me right now, you guys aren't subscribed. You need to hit that subscribe button, hit that little bell, subscribe. You need to know what's going on, especially with events like this that we're going to be talking about today. I've got Erly Maya on here. Unbelievable. She actually decided to show up today. First time so excited. And a regular who's probably going to be the co-host of the show pretty soon, Charles Smitherman of Apro. Listen, guys, it's great to see you. Great to talk to you. I want you guys to know right now, if you guys like the content like they do, please go on there, make sure that you leave a review, whether it's Spotify, whether it's Apple Podcasts, leave a review. That way Amber Lee and Charles know that you love them and you want to see them again, right? All right. Listen, guys, we are going to talk about LedgeCon 2026. This is the legislative conference that we do in DC. Now, some of you listening have probably seen this before, but this one was a huge event. I think Charles invited all of his family and friends, and then Amber Lee got on there and made it happen. We had probably the best, and this, I actually, hands down, was probably one of the best events I've had this year. I actually enjoyed it immensely. Um, not only that, it was a great venue, but we'll talk about that a little bit. First off, Charles, Mr. PhD himself, JD, uh, the CEO of April, you're doing an amazing job. Every time that I go to a new event, I want to tell you, man, there's people out there that are saying this is the new wave. And I think Amberly has a lot to do with that. So it's good to have you guys on. Talk to me a little bit about, you know, what you guys saw this year. I mean, talk to me a little bit about LedgeCon 2026, the most amazing one we've had yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Uh yeah, thanks, Pete, for having uh us on the show at again.

Why LedgeCon 2026 Hit Different

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Again, listen, I I wish I wish I could have you guys on all the time. We can do like a four-way we could do like a four-way thing on top. It's awesome. But yeah, no, seriously, I mean, this event was not only better, it was really put together. And I really want to say, like, there was several people that I've seen year after year that have been to this that said this was probably the best time that they've had. And there's a lot of things that I want to get into because there were people that I didn't know were there. There were different in part of the industry that I didn't know that were there. So we'll talk about that. Great people that I saw. I think we had a heartfelt discussion at the end, the debrief dinner, but we'll go into, you know, really as far as LedgeCon goes, this Ledge Con was different. What did you see when you were when you were getting this together? And and how did we get this together this year that made such a big difference?

Hitting 100 Attendees On Purpose

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Uh well, maybe a few things. I think one, we're it's great to hear that uh that kind of feedback. You always want to every year we're hoping to be better than the last one. Um, and so we really do take the feedback, take um uh, you know, the um the input that we get uh on board, and we're we're constantly trying to make it better. So um I would agree. I think this was uh just a great one. It went really well, the venue was good. Um, but a number of things we really did that was had a lot of intentionality of um we had set a goal, we wanted to get 100 people to attend. Um, and it's been a long time since we've had that many people show up. And in fact, um uh you'd have to go past like recent memory to to find when we've had a hundred before. Uh and so that was uh uh and and at that point I think we were actually pushing federal legislation there. So it was uh there was a huge rallying call uh to get people there. Um but with that we you know we had a uh set that goal for a hundred. Uh we we also we're in our third iteration of the uh legislative fellows program, uh which was a continued to be a big success as we we train our future generation of advocates and they can learn from our our legends, our experienced people that have been doing this for a long time, and they can go walk the halls with them and listen to see how that they do it. Uh so I think it's really a few of those things. Uh our government relations committee is just so uh active. Uh it's it's the model committee. I would put that up against any committee of any other association about how well that one is run and how focused it is on doing these things. And so when you've got that kind of support coming from the board, you've got the support of the committee, that leadership, and then you've got uh just the amazing staff we've got at APRO, with Amberly being just a huge part of showing and demonstrating everything that we do. So uh just everything kind of coming together, and then I think our focus on we want to do it better. And so this is the best year until the next one is the way we kind of approach things.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Well, you guys got to understand the way this came together, there was a lot that happened before this this year. So LedgeCon being our legislative conference, we get together in DC and everybody advocates for the industry. As we're doing that, and when this all culminates throughout the year, we had a couple of things that happen. Number one, we're talking about it as much as we can on the podcast, right? We want to get people out there, we want them to get them to understand what we do, why we do it, and why it matters so much. Then there was a book, The Arts Here Revolution, that comes out by Charles Smith herman himself and Wild Brands director Ryan Krass, right? To put this together because this is a history of what we have going on in the industry. On top of that, I've got this new forge messaging situation that that came out, which is now like it's it's starting to get full steam. I'm getting messages on that. People are kind of understanding that's where the April voices are, that's where the RTO legends are. And I can't say that this didn't all happen with Amberly being there somewhere. This is like a this ecosystem that all comes together. How did this Amberly, you're the you you are the director of marketing and communications, and I want to say, by the way, you're doing an amazing job. How did all this come together? Like, were you a part of that? And then and what was the idea to make this streamline and work to get all these? I mean, a hundred people been the best in years. That's not that's not a small feat. And to say that I don't I don't think that we're gonna be able to hold it down next year. I think we're gonna be way over a hundred next year. I mean, because the thing is the more people that come, the more people know about it. And it was a lot of people that came first time this year. Again, how long we've been doing this almost 25. Well, I don't know, Shannon, 23, 24, 20, so many years. But the thing is that you know, in doing that, they get to tell people who they know, this is what I got to do, this is what I got to be a part of, this is the advocacy effort that we were doing. And really, like when you have all that that basically that ecosystem to come together, is that a good reason why we hit those numbers this year?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, I mean, the I think the fellow part is a big part of it, just because we have, you know, we had I think 33 new people this year between the fellowships, the advocacy partners, and then additional uh first timers that wanted to come and have their voice be heard too. So um, you know, you've got the like like you said during the D Brief dinner, you talked about the you know, the legends walking alongside the the new people and getting um you know learning from each other. Um everybody can learn up and learn down, and it's just a a great opportunity to make your voice heard.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

So, Charles, talking about success, when we say the word 33, there are 33 new first-time attendees that showed up this year, right? That is a big number. A third of us were brand new to what's going on. Does that say that we're getting the message across and we're doing what we need to do to get the LEGCON thought, the advocacy out there? I mean, is it is is this a checkered flag to say, yeah, we're we're getting there. We beat this one, next one we got to do better.

Content Strategy That Fuels Advocacy

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah, I think that that's really where the growth is happening. I mean, we we we do a thing at the debrief dinner uh where we do recognition where we give you know the we give pins for to people that have have come for a certain number of years. We recognize those that have been coming for five years, ten years, fifteen. We had a couple of you know, 20 uh or two people in the lead that right at 23. Well, I think Shannon took it at 24 this year, maybe 25 or whatever that number is.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

24.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

You know, we have a core group that that believes in this, and they've been doing this for a long time, and they come back every year. People like Shannon Strong with with his 24 years, people like Larry Carico 23 years, Brad Dennison's 22 years. We've got this core group, they're going to come because they know and understand it and they believe it. Um and I think it is one of those conferences or an events that if you come once, you you buy into it, you understand what we're trying to talk about, what uh Amberly's putting out with communications. It comes across and you understand when you get there. And so a key to continue to one, sustain this because they're you know, uh our industry is getting older when you know the people that have been coming for a long time uh are not gonna be able to come forever. And so we need those new people to be coming in and and eventually becoming the experienced people. And so that's a core part of what we're doing. And I'd say sustainability is is the key on that um in trying to do that. So yeah, having a a a third of our participants brand new first time is pretty incredible. Uh because it it's a big ask. I mean, I we get it. It's an ask to come to DC, take time out of your schedule, uh travel in the middle of the week, because we need to be up there on a Wednesday or Thursday to meet with our um congressional members. And um, you know, it it it is a uh it is a thing. And so uh we we get that, uh, but it's also one I think once you do it once, it's you want to go back.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Well, it I I gotta say, the first time I was hooked, and I you know I plan on being back every year. And you know, and really talking about some of the things that the ecosystem produced on top of 33 people, I'm getting regular, you know, newsletters every single week. I get one from April that says, hey, this is what's going on in the RTO world. I get one from Charles now. Dr. Charles Smithman sends something out. Listen, not only is he a triathlon athlete, he has some good words to say. I get that all the time. Is that part of creating the ecosystem and letting people know what's going on and saying, hey, this is part of what we do, the advocacy, getting there? And now that you have these ways to to like that this constant information that's coming out, how well is that being received as you've seen it?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Well, I mean, in the last uh seven, eight months or so, we've we've doubled our content at at a minimum. We've at least doubled it. So um, you know, a lot of that is has to do with our our uh generative engine optimization uh AI uh platform that we're doing, but um trying to get the message out there so that you know, when the legislators are out there trying to Google us and figure out what's going on or go to Chat GPT or any of the other platforms that they get the truth about the industry and what what we're doing. Um so that's been a big part of that. And then it it also just helps the members as well see what we're doing and um you know that we're taking active steps to to improve the industry and make sure that our voices are heard. So I think it encourages them to want to be a part of it. Um and specifically the younger generation, the newer generation's excited to see it.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Um but I've seen I've seen the footprint of April grow online. I mean, it's it's grown tremendously um to being something that was poly, you know, I want to say a little passive to now it's there. It's it's something that you see all the time. It's been a progressive mark that I think has really made a difference. Also, the fact that when we have a third of the people that weren't there at any time before show up now, I think it's really getting the message out. And I love that because this is the opportunity for you, whoever you are out there, to understand that this is open to you. If you work for a dealer or a vendor and you want to go to this, please contact us at rtohq.org and make sure that like you have the information in front of you. Come to this event. You will not be the same afterwards. I wasn't, and I can tell you right now I enjoyed that. But I want to get into a little bit. Can you talk to me a little bit about? So if I'm listening for the first time, there are 33 new people out there. We want to expand out. What does a day in Legcon look like? So there is a there's a dinner beforehand, right? There's a dinner the day before. We kind of get together, we kind of talk to each other a little bit, you get to meet your team, see what's going on. But now it's the day of. So we started with a really big heavy hitter in the morning, and then we kind of took our day all the way through the Capitol. We're literally, Anthony, we missed you. We were walking on the steps of DC. I mean, this is monumental, especially to people who've never done this before. Can Charles, can you walk me through how that day gets set up and like the importance why we set it up that way? And more off, who was it that we talked to first thing in the morning?

What A Full LegCon Day Looks Like

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Well, uh it's a it's a busy day. Uh you're going to get your steps in when you when you go. Um, and so we we we spend a a considerable amount of time setting up meetings. Uh that's one thing that I think we're doing now that uh has really made this process a lot easier than compared to five, ten years ago when we left that to the member. So the ask was not just to come to DC, but setting up your own meetings too. Uh, we're taking that that off of um off your plate. Now, we want people to set up meetings uh if you have a personal relationship or you know, uh some type of relationship with your member, uh, but we're really taking a lot of that on. Uh Lisa Kravenhoft, our director of the vets, uh, does an absolutely incredible job of with that. Uh I can tell you I I've done fly-in days like this with other industries. I mean, it's not just the you know, because I've got this patch right here on my chest. So uh I'm not just saying that. It this we do it better uh than than anything I've ever been a part of. Uh and Lisa is a big part of that and making that happen. Um so we typically, you know, we bring everybody in, we have the the reception the night before. It's a a lot of this conference really is about networking with the group. Uh we we limit the number of vendors that come in. You have to sponsor uh to be a part of it on the vendor side. And so that does limit the number of uh uh of our associate members that get to come. Uh, but then we have um it's just a good networking the night before, uh getting us ready for for the next day. Uh we do a breakfast. We we like to bring a keynote speaker in, someone that works, uh whether it's a legislator, uh someone uh a regulator, uh, which is what we had this year with the deputy director from the uh Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, uh Jeff Gradler. Um so we had our breakfast and then we went over, took a photo at the Capitol. I've got I think I've got a couple of those from years past behind me. There they are.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

I just want you to know I'm somewhere in there. Not that you can find me without a magnifying glass, but in case you're looking, Anthony, I'm right there to the right behind the third person. So we we we have him come in. I mean, he he's so just so you guys are aware, there was a couple of years where we were worried about the CFPB. Now they're not, but it's it speaks volumes to say that we have enough people that actually showed up that they would come to us, sit down and have an open conversation. When at one time we were worried about being on the table and and served up to everybody else. And then now he gets to come in, sit down, and talk to us. And I you kind of sit with him and kind of have a good conversation about what we're looking at in the future and where we land and all of this. Uh and I believe that we are in the clear, is what I heard.

CFPB Dialogue And Drawing Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Well, I think you know, it it's been a consistent thing since that bureau was set up uh uh back in I think it was legislation passed into around 2010. So it's been around for a while. Uh we were specifically excluded from that, but they've always been, as regulators like to do, they try to uh branch out from their jurisdiction sometimes. And so uh that that agency, particularly in in prior administrations, has has you know really tested the boundaries of it and has uh where we've had to to to push back and or to remind them why that it's so important the red zone is not a credit transaction, and um all of those elements as to why it is not, and it really being the ultimate flexible transaction that you can return at any time for any reason um whatsoever. And so that's uh an important distinction. We have to continue to reiterate, and that's really a large part of why we go to DC. Uh it's not just the CFPB, um, it's to make sure and maintain those relationships, remind our legislators as to who we are uh and what we do because it's the and I think that if you've been there, if you've done this before, you know this. If we're not out there defining ourselves, someone else will. And if someone else is doing that, there it's not going to be the favorable, uh really honest, truthful approach that we do. We know we're the authorities on this, we're the ones that should be spreading that message and doing it. And so that's a large part of what we're doing. Establishing those relationships, maintaining those relationships with our legislators, with their staff. Uh in this case, uh, you know, establishing a relationship with with the with the regulator to really be clear, hey, we're not you're not our regulator. You're our regulators are the 47 states uh and those legislators are across the country, um, uh not not the the Bureau in DC. And so it was good to have a really co good conversation with uh with the deputy director just about what their priorities are, what they're doing, uh what the that uh agency looks like today compared to three years ago, five years ago. And and it was uh an interesting thing. I mean, I know uh that's uh it their activities have been something I've certainly followed for since really their inception. Uh and they've done they've done and they've done a lot of things, and they've done a lot of good things. It's hard, it's hard to say, you know, some of the things that they have done or uh when they're really going after abusive practices uh uh that some financial institutions have engaged in, that those are you know, those are positive things, and that's uh an axe an element of of that agency and the importance of having that consumer protection. Um I think we're we're we're for consumer protection and rent to own. That's why we have our state statutes, but that's why we have all those disclosures uh that we follow. That's why we have all these best practices we promote at APRO. So uh it's good to have that kind of conversation and really share what we're doing in APRO uh and for the industry to help self-regulate so we don't need someone trying to come in from DC on the federal level in an area that they don't belong in.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Hey everyone, it's Pete Chao here from the RTO Show Podcast, and I want to tell you about a company that's making a real difference in the rent-to-owned space, WoW brands. I've seen firsthand how they approach marketing. Let me tell you, it's not just about ads. WoW brands build complete digital ecosystems designed specifically for the rent-to-owned industry. Their e-commerce and lead generation strategies are built to bring qualified leads. And did I mention that they are actively working with the rent-town industry while also being members of April and Trib? Listen, these folks are passionate problem solvers. They don't just slap something together, they design, build, and scale the kind of digital retail tools your business needs. Your customers actually want. So if you're serious about growing, reach out to WoWbrands at WoWBrands.com. I trust them, and I think you will too. So then after this, after this breakfast and after this meet and greet, we sit down, talks uh are happening between Charles and the CFPB, the deputy director. So then after that, we all go take a picture, which is something a little bit different this year. We decided to take a picture up front first instead of afterwards, which I you know what, I'm not gonna complain. I really did enjoy that, and you can see me on there somewhere in there. I'm in that picture. I think it was on the first row this time. So you don't have to look hard. Uh but besides playing Where's Waldo, then we actually have our meetings, right? So we go into our meetings, and your meeting is set up, like you said, by by Lisa Kravanoff, and it's basically based on the area that you're in and what you represent. So if you have a township that has your stores or the company that you work for or the area that you help, those are gonna be the people that you're gonna see. So as you're seeing them, and the Amber Lee gets to go and be a part of this. Now I've never had uh Charles going around with me, but I have had Armor Amberly in the in the group of ours. So, Amberly, tell me a little bit. Like when we go to have these conversations, we're advocating, we're basically saying, hey, this is who we are, this is what we represent, right? These are the tax dollars, these are the people that in your your constituents in your area, the the people that really are part of the community that we help serve and is in your locations. How do those conversations go? What does advocacy sound like where you got these people in the room that are, you know, all from one area, but we had somebody from Renacenter, it was a Paul Mentibier from the Renaissance group, guys. Um, we had somebody from Aaron's, and we were talking about that I haven't had a group from Aaron's in a long time. There was RR Tire Express who was doing the tire and wheel side. There was, you know, somebody from Nationwide Direct in our group. There's somebody from April in our group, there's somebody from Grey Rooms in our group. Like when you get all these voices together, what does it look like as you walk into one of these situations, you're walking into one of these meetings? Kind of help me walk through what would somebody expect that they're new? What does it look like when they open the door?

Hill Meetings And Advocacy Storytelling

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Well, one of the things to realize is that almost everybody you talk to, like a very good portion of them, especially when you're working with um the legislative aides, they don't know the industry. Um so a lot of times you'll ask them, um, you know, what what is it that you already know about rent to own? And a lot of times they'll think it's it's housing or they'll think it's you know something they just have no idea. And so we get to explain what the transaction is and what it isn't. Um and then one of the biggest impactful things is just telling the real life stories. Um, you know, I I'm in the storytelling business, so I kind of like that part. But um, you know, we we tell the stories of real people and how it's impacted the, you know, the the customers, the employees, the the communities that we serve. Um, it's it's all an important part in, you know. know them seeing that it has a a real life human impact. Um and it's it's not just a transaction like it's a we talk about all the time. It's a relationship business and uh that goes in every direction. Um so having that opportunity to to come together and represent together and you know share have common ground and share stories um even amongst competitors um we can all come together and you know share the same message.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

How many industries do that, right? I mean that's just one of those things where it it's crazy. We have all kinds of people there that that you would think that we're on the front lines like battling each other and we're all all in in lockstep just saying hey in one voice this is our industry. Let me educate you on that. So between 10 and 5 you have all these meetings. Charles I have I've had I've been asked this question before and I can't think of a better person to ask this question. There are times when we're meeting and and these lawmakers are not in office, right? So sometimes we get somebody in there where we're talking to directly whether it's a representative or senator but then there are also some times that we get to the office and we're really kind of talking to the staff and not who we want we think you know hey it's my first year I'm going to talk to all these people but I'm talking to a staffer. Help me and help the listeners understand. Why is it important to go in to see the staffers and be as open and very direct and like like you're advocating to the senator or the representative themselves with the staffers versus you know well let me just put it away and I'll hold it here when they're really here. Like why is it important to do it with them?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Well I you know um to a certain level the it they're almost as important to be speaking to as the actual member I mean you've got to remember these you know there are a hundred US senators there are four hundred and thirty five members of Congress. They've got a lot to do they've got a lot they're supposed to be doing. Um we'll kind of talk about that in another podcast yeah but you know the there's a you know you've only got a certain amount of bandwidth I I I can't imagine what it would be like to be one of two senators for a state and have all of the issues that they've got all the committee assignments you know there there's a lot. And so the they really do rely on their staff. Their staff are really the kind of gateways they they they do meetings uh weekly with them they report back on what that they've learned and really in the event that something were to happen and we needed to make a phone call or get in touch with with someone we're going to reach out to that staffer. They're gonna be our link. Another thing with with staffers these these typically become I don't institutionalized might be the right word um they stick around like a a lot of them do and they become career staff where they will move up from being you know a legislative aide to a legislative director to the chief of staff position and once you get into those they really start moving around and so in lots of ways the staffers will outlive the members um in DC and so there are there are many that we've been meeting with in for years at different offices that they move over here after there's an election. You can look at the upcoming election there are a lot of people that are uh members of Congress that are retiring and so you know you'll have kind of turnover with those staffers um moving to different um uh to different offices and so having those relationships are really important because those those will carry and they stay and so it it's there is no uh the members are busy uh oftentimes we have meetings scheduled with a member and then they get called in for a vote they get called in for a committee meeting I can tell you pretty much every time I go to DC there's a fire that they're trying to put out for some reason and um you get moved uh to a different location if you're meeting with a member or uh you get moved to a different time. And so it that it's kind of really par for the course with that but but the staffers are the ones that uh are really the the key holders and th they're it's they're almost if not more important to be meeting with uh when when we go to talk to them because they're the ones doing the research and they're often the ones advising the the the member on issues, um what what votes look like, things of that nature. So those are really important relationships that we we aim and try to cultivate when we're going up there.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Now generally uh we're we're between 10 and 5 so we have a lot of different meetings and we'll meet probably 15 20 minutes before we're off to our next one we're going from one building to the next and we're all over the Capitol Hill. It really like I one thing that you've always made sure that we did is we got to get a picture we got to get cards. As somebody who is into the marketing and and the communications how important is that what is the point of that and how you know how can we stress the importance of that to the people that are coming next year and say hey you need to do this and this is why well there there was two two parts to the question in there so I'll go with the pictures first because that's the the more fun part for me.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

So it gives me content which is really great. But it also you know it it's part of that being able to share it with everybody back at home what's going on, why we're going, uh what we're doing. So and you know thinking back to my first year, this is my third um just like walking around and looking at the grandness of everything and you know just being able to to have that feeling of walking through is something crazy. So if you can capture even just a little bit of that in a picture I think it's something that can help others you know know why they should come to um and then the business cards I think are important. Like we had one lady um we we actually had two aides in this particular meeting and um I was really glad the second one was there. So the the first guy got us mixed up with a later appointment in the day and and thought we were there to talk about caskets.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Anthony thought we were there for funeral home arrangements.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

He said caskets yeah we were like no we don't rent our own caskets that was a that was a interesting yeah yeah and then and then from there he went into rent to own home so you know the other lady pitched in and she actually did know a little bit about you know rent to own with the durable consumer goods and let me save you let me save you from doing whatever you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

And it actually ended up being a great meeting because then we actually had a double meeting we had some great legends that were in there including Michael Bennett uh who was kind of overseeing everything and then we we had some younger uh you know well I should say first time attendees with us that got to see like hey not just because it doesn't go according everything according to plan doesn't mean that you bail out and and and stop right it's still important to get that message across it's still important to advocate it's still important to get their card and then after we kick them out you still get a picture with the rest of the group right is that what we do. But like it's it you know and it it's something that they always ask me like why like like if it's not them why and I completely resonate with that you know those staffers are there there is there are a few people that I saw from the year before in offices that I hadn't been to which is which is weird because you go to a different office and like oh I didn't see this guy but I saw him in the hall and he you know you say hi to those people and I agree that makes a lot of sense to be able to at least be known and as you're advocating you want to be known through the halls by anybody who's going to see you and know you especially when they have a senator representative's ear every single day for their entire term. I mean it just makes a difference. So I agree with that a hundred percent. Now talking about our first time attendees which is something that I'm really curious about because I really want to ask you Charles some of our first uh time attendees was someone from the NSRA when did they start like I I if they're visiting all the time I didn't know it are they is this the first time that the shed rental or what I how does it it's the National Shed Rental uh administration or is that right? NSRA National Shed Rental Dealers Association Dealership National Shed Rental Association um so so they I mean I didn't even know they were there and all of a sudden I seen Nick and I was like oh my god this is amazing that they're here helping us advocate for this industry I mean usually it is traditional wheel and tire and then they're there how how did that happen?

Sheds Join The Rent-To-Own Tent

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Yeah so the uh NSRA's been um they've been involved with APRO for a number of years I want to say uh Ed Wynn helped uh them get started whenever they initially formed I want to say they're 15 years ago uh so he was very involved with them uh they actually are an APRO member so they joined the NSRA uh joined they typically will do the board meeting and so their their presence has been increasing each year they've been coming to the legal summit we've been doing at RTO World uh they'll do a board meeting there and they usually have a few people uh around um and so we've been kind of just coordinating a little bit I go to their shows uh typically their their annual event in in September and we've just kind of you know been talking more with uh and expanding our relationship and so it was really great that they decided to to send Nick um and Gerard up there this year to to join us uh as part of it because they are a a they are fall under the same transaction we do uh they are really look to us to help on the advocacy side of what we do because it's the same thing. We're per about protecting the transaction um that's our mission here at APRO and so it is uh it's just a new part of the industry that that's there um and they're all over the country and so and they represent a pretty large um portion of uh when we do evaluation you know I think our our numbers are about 12 billion for the RTO industry the traditional and virtual side with that uh we're not capturing that and so we're we're working on some things to to look at some data for that to see how much of an economic impact that they have uh and so that's important we go in and meet with a um you know a congressman or congresswoman and say you know one out of 27 households uses rent to own well that number may be a little bit higher because we're not capturing who may be out renting shed as well. When we say we've got a$12 billion impact or we're responsible for this much in payroll or this much in taxes in your district there's another element that they're contributing to that too. And so it's really good to have them there because that's just another part and expansion of the of our market. We really do reach a lot of people and uh a lot of people like what we offer the flexibility of that transaction and and the sheds is just a unique aspect of it and uh uh one that one that's doing pretty well and really meets people where they need and uh where we're where they want to be with that with that option.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

So well I want you guys to know if you are from the NSRA and you have anything to do with sheds and RTO please reach out to the show. I am dying to talk to you I would love to have a a number of you go to this legislative conference next year at 27. I would love to see 33 new just from the shed side alone because it's something I didn't know I was I was completely fascinated thought it was an absolutely wonderful idea for them to join us and I would absolutely love to join them and some of the things that they have going on and what they do because it's super important for us to as a complete industry just go go to DC in one voice and let everybody know we are regulated in 47 states and we're doing a darn good job of that let's let that this leap you know just leave it the way it is uh CFPB not included but uh Emily like when you you know he said the key word there I should say uh you know partially word there the VRTO there was something that we had talked about before that I didn't know that they were in none of this either and now guys I feel terrible that I didn't know this and if if you didn't either hey uh I know Anthony didn't know but the thing is is like I didn't know the virtual rent owned and the sheds were already a part of what April was doing they're a part of what we have already going on and being a part of this organization is huge but I didn't know that and I want everybody listening to know that they are a we are in one industry and they're already here. How big is that to have them here Amberly I mean I they kind of it's knocking on my back door I didn't even know about it but you did you know about what's going on is there going to be something going on in the future we're we're gonna kind of like sound that bell and say hey we are this one voice April is going to, you know, this newsletter is now going to incorporate maybe a shed side maybe you know um a virtual side uh an element of that is that somewhere down the pipeline is that something that might have just come up on the podcast that we thought about well I mean like like you said we are all one big family.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

We all have the same regulations we all have the same you know guidelines and in the same transactions. So um you know it's it's something that you just have to get everybody together and and and to hash it out, talk it out. That's why uh we all get together and have that community uh community aspect so we can learn from each other, um, find out you know what's working good, what's what's what's working good over here that we could try out over there. And um you know I think it's just important to to have every different piece of our puzzle uh represented and um and and they are part of that. So um you've got traditional you've got virtual you've got uh tires and wheels you've got sheds you've got everything so um it's it's I think it's important for everyone to be represented.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Yeah I I do I think it's I think it's great. I mean and and if you take a look at the numbers and the benefits that they are giving as a matter of fact you were talking about numbers a minute ago what they're contributing it is getting bigger every single year it is not going away and as a matter of fact I I see that their numbers are gonna they're escalating quite a bit you know it didn't seem like at first it was going to be what it was I don't think somebody thought about that in Rentone at one time either like I don't know what's going to be that and then now these numbers I mean they're moving up they are becoming very important in what we do.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Well and and and they and they have been I think you know it's a new industry that uh largely was started in 2013 um around that time most of those companies were and it I want to say maybe around 2020 it was the last strategic plan the one um before our current version at APRO we made that concerted or that effort and intentional decision that we were the we were about the transaction we were about these statutes and if you fell under these statutes then you were part of the tent and um so we've we've had virtual companies uh involved with APRO for the better part of the last six years uh particularly with the with the like a SEMA uh progressive uh snap finance joined last year we re we literally represent I want to say about 80% of that market but with those companies uh along with some of our smaller ones uh you only see it's another one Daniel's uh coniment's or Daniel's been a great um uh uh addition for us and advocate for us in N DC and so it it's it's a really unique part but it also just shows like the expansion of where why that this transaction is so appealing to people because it really does offer um that ultimate flexibility and so it has expanded the market considerably that's why you're seeing so much growth on that side because they're it's beyond the traditional brick and mortar location they're in a Home Depot, they're in a Lowe's they're um in in these other retail establishments that we've we've not traditionally reached. And so a big they're a huge and an important part of it. But they fall and they fall under the same transaction. We've got several board members that are uh represent those companies and and have the voice in our leadership uh as well and so uh it's good to have them as part of this and in DC can we can say that and really say okay this is we're reaching so many families they rely on this transaction every day and this is why the regulatory scheme that we have in place is important why it's important to follow it why it's important to have these disclosures to have these uh consumer protections that are built into it that everyone's following uh because we're reaching more and more people and I think that's going to continue to be the case because this is this transaction is really designed it's been great for the past but it's really designed for the consumer preferences that we're seeing on the subscription model uh for the future and future in younger generations going forward.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Is there an idea or a an a goal to have these you know these because I couldn't tell you how many of the hundred are one side or the other whether it be the shed side whether it be the you know virtual rent to own is it safe to say that you know next year our you know part of our goal from this year to next year is to get them more representation in the advocacy efforts that we do in DC and LEGCon 2027?

SPEAKER_01 38:48

You know I think I think the the virtuals have been have been part of our the association and part of LEGCon really for the past six years since most of them joined and so we're we're adding a few every year and there's you know we would like to see more so we are speaking with that whole voice from them. But I think that's really the cool thing about this conference particular is how we bring everyone together. I mean APRO we're a a huge tent we've got publicly traded companies over here all the way to the franchisors to the franchisees to the large independents to the mid-size independents all the way down to the single store operator. And then we throw in these other vectors out there from tire wheels to sheds to uh HVAC to really anything that falls under a durable goods category, anything that can be returned can be subject to our our lease purchase uh regulations. And so um the it's important to kind of keep that in mind and that's really we helped pass these these statutes and that is uh we know them and we're we're the ones that are really charged with being the stewards and protectors of that and so that's why coming together speaking with one voice and kind of what's what's great about this conference is you're bringing in all these competitors. I mean lots of times like the teams you were just mentioning you you you mentioned your Florida team you've literally got you know stores across the street from each other and we can put that aside could compete during every other day of the year but whenever we come into legislative conference when we come into the industry events uh that goes aside and we're really speaking with that one voice. Uh we we have the saying that it's kind of the Legcon slogan it's a um ver I'll make sure I get the Latin it's basically strength in unity veritas unite uh Anthony we're gonna have to put that on the screen for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

But yeah so I so another question that I get and I'm and you know I think we've had this conversation and I think we all have had this conversation but for the listeners to just make sure that they understand we talk about having 47 state laws right we're almost there we're gonna talk about a couple states in a minute but we you know we almost have all of them down. So then why get together at DC? Why put everybody together at the Capitol Hill and talk to the people that are at DC, the senators the legislators their staff if there is no federal law what is the point behind that and and maybe you can explain that to me and to the listeners so that they have a good understanding why this means as much as it does.

Why DC Matters Without A Bill

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Well so that that's part of the challenge is that we're not pushing federal legislation. I say easy I wasn't there but years past it was we were getting a hundred plus and they were com we were coming up and saying we have this specific bill we want you to vote for it. And that that's a little bit of an easier task than I think we have now when we're really our our call to action is hey we've it it's kind of the saying of like the best time to repair a roof is when the sun's shining. And that's kind of where we are the house is not on fire and we're not up there trying to put it out which is a much different situation and one that we are trying to very actively and proactively avoid by doing this. We're putting in the effort now we're establishing those relationships we're we're we're telling our story what the rent-owned transaction is what we are about and what we're not and really clearing up any misconceptions so if someone goes up and follows us next week or in a couple months or six months from now and goes in and tries to characterize us as something else the people we've met with and have been establishing these relationships every year will know better hopefully to say okay well or or they know hey I met with Amberly Meyer from April or I met with Pete Shaw from R and R the R and the RTO show let me reach out to them and see what they have to say about this. That's our goal and that's what we're trying to do here. So there's really uh it's a tough call to action and that we're saying we're wanting to go up there and say hey we're up regulated on the state level we want you to leave us alone we are well regulated and we're we're on the path to self-regulation through APRO. That's a um that's a position you want to be not putting the fire out uh that's a totally different conversation uh a totally different feeling than the ones that we get to have like we had last week when we were in DC and so we're trying to prevent that uh and I could tell you probably you're we're gonna talk a little bit about some of the states and it's a totally different environment and and you know posture that we have to have when we're trying to put a fire out.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Well I'm gonna tell you what I think we missed is we should have brought some extra books when we were talking to some of the legislators. We could have you know on top of our cards we could have just slipped the book and be like read it yourself. But so one of the last questions that somebody gave me that I really didn't have a good answer to was we have forty seven states. We don't have all fifty. Would a federal law fix that?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Well that's that was the goal. I mean, that for years. The and that was really back in the early eighties when APRO was founded. Uh the idea was to push that federal legislation uh to say to define rent lease rent to own, lease to own, that it is a lease, not a credit. Um and that what ran parallel to that effort was we'll we'll push the federal legislation, but we're going to go through and work on state regulation as well. And so eventually that state regulation took over, and we have almost you know 47 of the 50 states at this point. That um effort to do to define it under federal law as a lease became a little bit redundant or less necessary. And so that we haven't really been pushing that effort for several years. I think that the posture changed of, hey, we're we're happy with where we are. Uh we don't we we don't need that. And in fact, I've I've heard the stories and they're you know referenced in the book where uh and in some of the RTL Legends interviews where people finally were talking with members of Congress about bills, and they were advised by those members. Hey, you don't want us doing this because if we do this, then we're in your business, and we can change it at any time. And you see how some of these bills, how the you you you read these things about, you see what's going on with appropriations and how the things just kind of get stacked in and fall in on on some of this large legislation. And when we're talking about really a a couple like a one or two-line sentence is what we're really looking for of, you know, lease to own is a lease, not credit transaction. Uh, those things are, you know, there's a risk involved of having that federal legislation. I think that that risk assessment has changed over the past few years, and that's why we're really focused on the state level and still go into DC to tell them that we're well regulated, both on the state level and both and through our industry self-regulating itself through APRO best practices, code of ethics, uh the the those type of things that we're working on as the professional rental organization.

APRO Membership Value And Support

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Let me ask you something. Are you getting everything out of your rent-to-owned business? If you're not an APRO member, then the answer is probably no. Look, advocacy is APRO's bread and butter. This is why they were created and what they do best. But here's the thing April membership is about way more than advocacy. April connects you to the movers and the shakers of the industry, people who've been there, done that, and they could help you do it even better. Apro's monthly webinars give you expert insights and actionable takeaways. It's like having a masterclass for your business every single month. Got questions about complex regulations or sticky situations? No problem. April's legal hotline gives you direct access to experts who have got the answers. That's a peace of mind that you can't put a price on. And let's not forget the resources, news, updates, and tools that keep you ahead of the curve. Scholarships for your team? Check. Disaster relief when you need it most? Double check. APRO is your ultimate support system in the rent-to-own world. So stop settling for less. With APRO members, get more. More support, more connections, and more success. Head over to rtohq.org and join the APRO family today. Because in this business, more isn't just better, it's essential. See you at the top with APRO. So come towards the end of the day, not only do we get to leave at 5 p.m. because it's been a long day, we're on our feet all day, but then uh as we meet up, there's a couple things that were important. Number one, Amberly, we had to scan something and make sure that we're kind of giving our feedback of these meetings and stuff. And I'm gonna maybe get your uh input on that. And then we had a couple of people who were on camera who had never been there before to kind of give their ideas and this, you know, what happened that they didn't know about, they didn't see. What came out of that? Like, what did you hear? What's something that you hear that was like, you know what? I'm glad that I had that person here to kind of share their story a little bit because I've seen it again on LinkedIn and on some of the social media sites and on you know, rtohq.org where it's like the these people really got something new out of it. They were like, oh my God, I didn't know. I didn't see this. So as you're gathering this information, was you know, how important is that to not only collect it but then show it out to everybody else and say, hey, this is what you can see at at LedgeCon?

First-Timer Reflections And Debrief Wins

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Well, I think one of the big things is you know, people come in and they they're nervous um to go and talk with legislators and thinking it's a big scary thing to to go do. And, you know, it's not like you're gonna go stand in a courtroom or anything, you know, you're just kind of talking with people. You're sitting around a table talking with people. And um, you know, whether it's the legislator or the aides, you know, they're they're not coming down on you, especially we're not there for an ass, they're super happy that we're not there for an ass. They're like, this is an easy conversation. Um so when the when a new person comes in and and realizes, you know, that this is easy, these are people that are, you know, making all these laws and you know, they're important, but I'm able to have an impact on, you know, their opinion of the industry and making sure that, you know, if something does come down the pike that, you know, they can remember my face. That's what uh Shannon Strunk said during the debrief dinner that, you know, you you make a connection with these people so that um whatever it is, because a lot of them are from your area, you're meeting with people from your state. Um, so you make some sort of connection with them so that if something comes down, they remember, you know, I gotta call Pete, I gotta call Charles because they made that connection with you. So um it's the same thing with the first timers. They they get to experience that firsthand. They um I the common thing you hear a lot is that they're they're in awe of the process. Um, it's an exciting thing to be a part of. Um it it's a professional development opportunity. Um, you know, getting to go and talk to these people that, you know, you you may have never dreamed that you'd have that opportunity. Um so it's you know, a lot of people telling those those same types of stories. And I think it's important to record them so that we can share that with other people and get more attendees next year.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

So well, I gotta say, one of the one of the attendees that I didn't know was first time was Lauren Talisca. And I had no idea that she had never been there before. And as she's telling her story, which is one of the reasons why I brought it up, uh, you know, you can almost see the difference in her eyes. Like, I I just did not know. And I think it was great to have that on camera. I think it's great to show somebody who's never been there before. Like, this is the difference between not knowing and actually advocating for the business. So I I think you did a great job there, uh just you know, just telling it. I think it was an amazing job to have people on there and to tell their story and to say, hey, you know, in one voice, I got to join in on this with the guys, like you said before, Charles, people who've been here for years and years and years. And we're talking about people who are legends and people who have just showed up to DC for the first time in their lives and we're all walking Capitol Hill together. I love that story. That means a lot to me. That means a whole lot to me. Uh, we actually got to share our first year together, Amber Lee and I. And that was Anthony, I think I'm gonna bring you along next year just so you're aware. I want to have you walk the halls with us next year. Absolutely. Let me do it. You know, we're just gonna, you know, you're gonna have to eyeball and record us in the areas you can. I don't know we can, but we can make a drop out. So there were a couple of states that we talked about, right? Because we're talking about all the grand things, and we want to make sure that we're doing the right. There are a couple of states that right now we are looking at because guys, if we didn't tell you why we're doing LedgeCon, this is exactly why. Things like this need to be in the forefront, and we want to know about it. Charles, we've got uh New York that just isn't seemingly going away right now. This is something that we've talked about last year, and we talked about on the episode before that. Uh it looks like we've got Senate Bill uh 1726 and Assembly Bill 4918. Why why what is this? Where is it coming from? Why why are they still there? We are not a credit transaction, they have regulatory uh laws in that state. What's going on right now?

New York Bills And A Cautionary Tale

SPEAKER_01 52:02

Uh well it's it's groundhog day um in New York, and that's what it feels like. This is year three of this. Um in fact, I'm going up there in a couple of weeks to for the, I think of the fourth or fifth time to to walk calls and meet the members on this. And I think New York's a really good cautionary tale and really shows why our legislative conference at DC is so important of establishing those relationships. Um the New York Rental Dealers Association had had really been inactive for a number of years and it it's kind of fallen off, and that this kind of this thing just snuck in. And it really is just a pure situation of of of really a consumer group, uh, legislators that are supportive of it or listen to it and put it in a bill form that don't understand our business, that they don't understand our transaction, and they we were characterized by someone else defined who we were, and they got there first. And so we're having to do a lot of the sun shining in DC like it was last week, and it was really hot. New York house has been on fire, and so the posture of what would the way that we have to go up there and present to that and really fight to uh do these things, these educational things that we're doing in DC now and we do every year, we're having to really make up for lost time in in New York. And so it's uh that's just a situation where we're trying to be reclassified where this bill says that we're a credit transaction. We're uh categorically not, and 47 states, including the state of New York, uh, and their bill passed in 1987 says that we are not a credit transaction. Um and so but we've not been up and up there establishing those relationships. We've not been up there advocating, educating the legislators that are there today were not there in 1987 when we passed the statute. Most of them weren't there in 2009 when we amended the statute, and we worked with the legislator on new language, on new disclosure requirements. And so that's just a cautionary tell. That's an that's an active state. Um it's a place where that on one hand we've had the CFPB that has changed a lot in the current administration in DC, that the vacuum is picked up on the state level, in particular the state attorney generals. And uh that um that's kind of the there's a the category or a characteristic example of what we're trying to prevent. And that, you know, we we're we're dealing with that in DC. Uh that bill's still there. Uh I think we're seeing some progress on it. I think our our messaging uh is landing. There's some understanding as to what that we do and how that we're not like these new transactions that we got lumped in on this bill. And so there's some changes that are happening that are positive up there, uh, and that our messaging is resonating. And so we're uh cautiously optimistic of what's happening there. Uh, but again, it's it's a lot of work and it's a lot of like the preparation or the forward thinking, uh uh the being proactive, we missed out on it there, and there's a bit of a consequence that we're we're dealing with now. And I can tell you, I I enjoy my time in DC a lot more in having that proactive education conversations compared to hand me a bucket, we've got to throw it on the spire and keep trying to put it out, uh, like like I've been doing when I've been going up to Albi, like I'll be doing when we go up there in a couple more weeks to uh to keep sharing the good news.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

But you know, and this is a good tale to be told. I mean, right now, what happens is everything was going good. 1987, we get this law passed. As things go on, the people in New York were like, well, I mean, it's really there's really nothing else left to do. We don't need to do this all the time. The NYRDA kind of goes to sleep. And then as this comes up, we get, you know, we kind of get a little bit of a ring of a bell from, you know, uh our legal counsel who's no longer with us. I really wish it he was, but he's not. So we get our little bell and that's we we start picking it up. And like you said, it was a kind of almost after the fact instead of ahead of the fact, like we do in DC. Now things are just starting to pick up steam. We had the NRDAA reform, NYRDA reformed Jeff Smith from Hometown RTA uh and and Matt Radeki, uh, you know, they run that, but absolutely great guys. But Jeff Smith kind of leads that. Now he's on the the president on the board, you go up there, and then we have a couple of other people from the RTO industry going up there, and it's like after the fact. After the fact, it's a lot more dangerous than the deal with than up front. So if you ever wanted a reason to go to LedgeCon 2027, that is it. We do not want somebody describing their the transaction that we know all too well to somebody who doesn't. And then what are we doing? We are putting out all kinds of fires, like Charles says, with a bucket on a big fire. And we don't want to do that. And you know, coming in the end, we have the CFPB director in the room. He decides to stop by. Number one, are we on the right track of keeping everything the way it is uh when we have somebody like that in the room? And how how do you how would you summarize what's going on in New York as of right now and with a little bit of foresight? Like, is that something that we need to worry about or we don't know yet, or is it something that we we need to you know get gather around? Guys, we might be in New York, but I mean, is it something that we really need to worry about?

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Well, I mean, we've new we've we've taken New York very seriously. I mean, it is it's an existential threat there. And the the complete mischaracterization of establishing it as a credit transaction, saying subjecting us to a usury rate, um, which is impossible. I mean, how do you can't put an APR on a on a lease? You just can't do it because there's no neither a borrowing of money nor a fixed term uh to repay that money. And so having to repeat that and to uh it's just been an exercise that um just why it's so important. But really, New York is one of those states that they've they they're very consumer protection active, which is good. I mean, we're for consumer protection. Um but they're also trying to be it's it's a it's a worry that there's it's a almost we need to have a firewall there uh because it could spread. And that's why we've been taking it as as seriously as we have uh and are making the efforts that we're doing there to um to really tell the truth about what we are and what we're not, and to make those efforts. So um I'm cautiously optimistic about that our messaging is landing there and that uh we're having an effect. And but it it's extremely important, like I said. Yeah, it changes the nature of our business and whether we can actually even do business in that state if this law were to pass. It's that that's good.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Well, it is important. We have a lot of people in that area that not only use this business, but they are employed by this business. This industry kind of reaches very far out into the New York area, so it's very important, you know. Uh talking to both of you and see what answer you guys come up with. Um, as we come into this, I wanted to know what is the single most important thing you want an RTO dealer who has never attended LedgeCon to hear today that might get them to show up next year.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

For me, I'd say it's for everybody. So I came from the dealer side and I kind of always envisioned it as something for like the the higher-ups. Um, you know, it's the it's the owners that go down there and they handle that, and you know, that's somebody else's job. Um, but to see the reactions of the legislators and the aides when they're talking to people who are are in it every day, I think is really important. So seeing um, you know, the the managers who can share the stories of the actual consumers that they're working with, you know, that's the actual constituents of the people that we're talking to, um, you know, they have that that more hands-on personal uh connection. So it's important for everybody to be there. They all everybody has a good story to tell, um, especially in this industry. So um that that would be probably my biggest thing is don't feel like you can't go because you're a manager or because you're, you know, a different position. Um, it's not just for the owners and home office people.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

Charles, what would you say? What would you be hearing, what would be your answer to that?

Pride Unity And Why People Return

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

So this year we kind of had a theme of and we we we had this prompt that we asked everyone to share um throughout the event and in particular at the debrief dinner. And it was I'm proud to be part of the red zone industry because dot dot dot. Um and you know, it I think it's absolutely impossible. That that dinner is literally my favorite couple of hours of the entire uh industry calendar in anything. That that time to hear people to share that story. I mean, we're we're an industry of stories. That is our strength. And so we get to go to DC, we get that is that's what and we get to people ask what our stories are, and we've got some great ones. Um so getting to kind of share that, be a part of that. But then I think what really underlies that, and what I think I think everybody that comes away from it, really, if there is a secret sauce to this, or what the the common thing that I think everybody feels is that real sense of pride and what what we do, who we serve, those stories about uh the people that we help, uh the access that this transaction provides, and that's what we're up there fighting for. And that's why it when you go up there and you fight for it, you know it's something worth fighting for. And I think everyone really comes away with that sense of pride. Um that's where it brings it all together. You've got competitors sitting in the same room speaking with one voice. And so, you know, I think a lot of what we're doing and what we've been doing, I mean, the the the the oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:19

He's got the book. That's the checkmate man.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

This is a big part of it. Yeah, I don't think you read this book without coming away with a sense of pride in being a part of this industry. I hope you don't. Hope you don't come away, hope you come away with it with a sense of pride. Uh and it's the same thing with legislative conference. I think that going up there and just being a part of it, walking the halls with new people, with experienced people, with different companies, different vectors of the industry, all of that, uh, and really speaking with that one voice. It's it's a special time. And I think that once you go once, we have we have so many people that come back, and that is the reason I think that underlies it. This isn't usually not a one-off thing. I did this once, I'll it was fine, I'm never coming back. We have a lot of return people, and I think that's a uh that's a key for that's a key for the rent-to-one business. That's what it's relationships, and uh, we really relationships with each other, and we're establishing these relationships with our elected officials and those staffers. Uh so that that's where it hits.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

Well, I agree with you. I'll tell you guys now why I do it, because I swear to you, every time that I go, we are making history in real time. That's what we do. And if we don't do this, somebody else is gonna tell our story, just like Charles said. I believe that wholeheartedly. And from this podcast to you, I'm gonna tell you guys I really appreciate you being on a show. We are gonna tell you our story, and the red tone is really, really being done. Listen, I'll tell you guys, as always, you please make sure that you subscribe to the channel, make sure that you see us. We are everywhere that you want to be Facebook and Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, where you're gonna see this. You definitely want to go to the website, buy some swag. There is nothing better looking than one of these guys in the shirt. I have pictures of that on the website, by the way. So if you go there, make sure you get some swag. You want to buy something, always think about supporting the show because this is how we get to talk about what we do. Everybody gets to come on the show and say in one voice, this is our industry, and I love it because. And I love hearing that, you know, whether what's one story or another, I love, like you said, that debrief dinner. Everybody had a different story to tell. And where would we be if we didn't have those legends walking side by side with some of the new people to say, hey, I might not be here this year or next year, you know, coming up soon. Shannon will be here for 35, 40 years, but everybody else is gonna be, you know, they might be out of the game, and it'd be great to have these people step up, including the VRTO, the HVAC, and the NSRA. I am so glad that they're a part of that. Uh, you know, I want you guys to know real quick, I appreciate it. Make sure you subscribe, make sure that you go to rtohq.org. There is so much going on. You might get a newsletter. Charles, always a pleasure to have you on. And Raleigh, finally on the show after so long. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you guys being on. I am glad that I was a part of LedgeCon 2026, and I'm gonna tell you guys, as always, get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one.