One minute you’re chuggin' along, making sales, doing all right, and then – *record scratch* – it's not not going so well anymore. Maybe you’ve noticed plateauing or decreasing sales, or maybe you can’t shake the feeling that how you’re selling is not congruent with your ‘service above all else’ values…and you know what? You’re NOT alone.
The market has changed.
Here’s where the ground is shifting:
If you want to make a sale, you gotta earn your potential client's respect - and if you want to make repeat sales, you gotta keep it.
In this episode, we get into why that’s happening – and why it’s good! – and what to do about it.
Quick overview of what we cover:
CHECK OUT STEVE + ADRIANE'S PROJECT:
LISTEN TO MORE EPISODES WITH STEVE:
RESOURCES:
CONNECT WITH STEVE:
One minute you’re chuggin' along, making sales, doing all right, and then – *record scratch* – it's not not going so well anymore. Maybe you’ve noticed plateauing or decreasing sales, or maybe you can’t shake the feeling that how you’re selling is not congruent with your ‘service above all else’ values…and you know what? You’re NOT alone.
The market has changed.
Here’s where the ground is shifting:
If you want to make a sale, you gotta earn your potential client's respect - and if you want to make repeat sales, you gotta keep it.
In this episode, we get into why that’s happening – and why it’s good! – and what to do about it.
Quick overview of what we cover:
CHECK OUT STEVE + ADRIANE'S PROJECT:
LISTEN TO MORE EPISODES WITH STEVE:
RESOURCES:
CONNECT WITH STEVE:
Welcome to the Soulpreneur show, a podcast for a new generation of leaders, visionaries, disruptors and trailblazers who want to do business better. Our goal is to provide you with stories and insights into the strategy, systems and soul behind scaling, service driven, impact first, human centric businesses to help you create time, financial and lifestyle freedom. We want you to have a business that you not only love and pays you well, but that prioritizes what you want for your life, so that you can take actual unplugged vacations, you can step away from social media and you can spend your time doing things you love with the people you love. Let's get to it. Okay, so we're going to have a little get to know. Steven Adrian time.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable. You always do this to me. You always do this to me where it's like oh hey, by the way, we're just about to press record and then I'm gee, wait, let's get to know each other, oh okay, Fun Do we.
Speaker 1:Is that not acceptable?
Speaker 2:It's acceptable because let's go, let's do it.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So you mentioned last time that one of the things on your bucket list is that you want to learn to cook.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, so top three and your favorite three and your three least favorite foods.
Speaker 2:Oh well, so so burgers, burgers Australia or the US, like that's up there, that's definitely. That is definitely a food group that I can exist. Yeah, we've already also talked about. We've also talked about like the cheesecake and how you know you, you can create an amazing cheesecake. Like cheesecake is a delicious food, for sure.
Speaker 1:Up there it's like on your top three list.
Speaker 2:For sure, okay, for sure, as a as a as a dessert or as a main meal. Yeah, give me, give me a cheesecake, but it's hard for me. It's hard for me because I did the whole thing Like it'd just be there. I couldn't stop. It'd be impossible to no self control. It's not, it's not necessary, because whatever's in it, it just flicks a switch in my brain to say don't leave anyone else Like go.
Speaker 1:Okay, no self control and selfish.
Speaker 2:There you go when it comes to cheesecake, when it comes to the top three, I'll give you some fries off my plate, if you want, off my burger, but yeah, when it comes to cheesecake, it's like not having.
Speaker 2:I would order two. If I was out with someone and I knew they were like a cereal food thief, I would order two serves of the cheesecake because, yeah, I don't, I don't want to have to. If I go out for dessert, like if I order dessert, it's like I don't want point eight of a dessert, I'd rather have. I'd rather have one point eight of a dessert.
Speaker 1:We have. We have had this discussion yeah.
Speaker 2:That's true, that's true. And then there's like then there's eggs on eggs on toast. So that's a thing, that's a thing in ours. I mean, when you go to, when I was in the States, it's not, it wasn't something that you wasn't something that you explicitly go, and hey, I'm going to have eggs on toast or scrambled eggs on toast. It would be like eggs would be on the menu and then you would put, you would put toast or you ask for toasters aside, or something like this. It's a bit stranger, but yeah, in ours you would go out and you would go. I would like scrambled eggs on toast or poached eggs on toast. Or there would be a like an eggs Benny which is poached eggs with whole and whole egg sauce, like, yeah, it's a we've got that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've got it all. It's just whether or not it's in the same, in the same room, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Interesting Eggs on avocado toast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you like that stuff. You've enjoyed our avocado, so we've got smashed, smashed avocado, smashed avo. That's like avocado better, and a bit of like lemon salt pepper and that's all me. Yep, that's good. That's good you could go. And you could go like poached eggs veggie mine and avocado on toast Veggie mine and avocado is really delicious, like if you're, I think, one of the big misconceptions. This will be a highlight of the podcast, I reckon, because we're going to give away the keys to the city. It comes to veggie mine. It comes to veggie mine. It is not something. If you, if you've tried it and you're like I hate it, I challenge it because I reckon what you've done is you've made, you've gone like level 10, veggie mine, instead of starting at level one veggie mine.
Speaker 1:I am really not sure what it is, other than it was a thing on I love Lucy.
Speaker 2:It's a byproduct, man. It's a byproduct, so it's a byproduct of. I think it's like a. It's a. It's like a yeasty. It's like a yeasty byproduct of, like alcohol creation, I think it. I think they grab all of like the leftover hops and stuff from the, from the factories, and then they grind it all and it gets turned into a paste. It's a salty, like it's a. It's a salty, a salty, dark paste, and it's like it's. It's delicious but it's like it's intense. So everyone goes. Level 10, veggie mine. If you, if you're going there and grabbing a spoon out of it and someone's given you a spoon of veggie mine, they do not like you as a human being. Like, if you're eating a spoon, you don't eat veggie mine out of the jar. No one does that, but usually that's someone's first like adventure in level 10, veggie mine. Foolish, you'll never like veggie mine. We would never do that. I would never do that. Level one veggie mine is a piece of toast with a minimum of three to one butter to veggie my ratio.
Speaker 2:So you're literally, you're literally just putting like a surface level, like smear of veg, on there Level one level, one, you get a little, little salty taste, but the butter's saving the day and diluting the intensity, and I mean for me, for me personally, I'm probably like a level five, level six veggie mine and that's just like increasing the thickness of veggie mine or or decreasing the ratio of so, to be more like one to one of the butter, yeah. Totally.
Speaker 1:And you would add, you could have an avocado to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So avocado is an, avocado is another like vehicle to offset the intensity. So avocado works really well and it pairs super nice. So does poached eggs, so poached eggs. So veggie my butter toast, veggie, my poached eggs on a book year away, because then it all. Just you only salt your food.
Speaker 1:I don't. I'm not a salt person.
Speaker 2:Veggie mine is a salt.
Speaker 1:I don't like I don't. I'm not a big salt.
Speaker 2:The sensors.
Speaker 1:Salt. You've got a lot of salty and a lot of sweet foods on that list and a lot like what you've got a cheesecake which is sweet and then whatever I I want, like spicy garlicy.
Speaker 2:Oh, you like taste, you like you like actual flavors, not spicy all things, all the things that when I said the other week that I want to know how to cook, I want to know how to do that stuff, I want to know how to make stuff taste good, so I've got, I've got, I've got stuff that I can make. I can make eggs on toast, I can make, you know, smashed avocado, but can I make it taste good? Knowing what little little, just a little bit of these little bit of that I need to hang out with like a Noma.
Speaker 2:I need to like hijack and Italian grandmother and just go listen, teach me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's I sort of. I think I come by it. Naturally, my dad is a very good cook and his, his mom I don't think his dad ever cooked like she was so traditional, like old school European wife, like my Nana and Nanu, like he was always just like sitting in the in the recliner watching TV and she cooked all day long. That's like all she did and you went, you went over there and she was just like let me give you more food. What do you want to eat? You want to? We got some soup, we got some pasta, we got some that like what do you want? She cost it and I think that she was oh my God, she was the best cook. She cooked so well that I don't know like I just sort of came out being able to just throw stuff together. I've always been able to cook.
Speaker 2:It would be like my thing to break as a as a kid growing up, I had I had friends who had like heritage based good cook relatives, so like Greeks and Middle Eastern and you know, indian, sri Lankan, all that sort of stuff. And here I was like my parents weren't fantastic, they did a job, but it was functional, not fashionable, and it was more like sort of yeah, that filled me up but it wasn't delicious. They were there and they would. They would just fall in love with me because, unlike their, unlike their kids, who are used to it, I've never had, I've never had someone who's like you're too thin, eat more, eat more Like, eat going, like do you want? And it was an option Like seconds.
Speaker 2:Seconds wasn't always an option at home, whereas they're going to these places. So like I just smashed my foot, oh, this is, oh, my gosh, this is so good, this is so good. And that was like I was like crack for them to hear it. They're like cool, have some more, have some more, okay. So I always thought maybe I could, if I had one, I'd break them Like. I'd actually like top them out as to how much food they could, they could give me. But yeah, so you like garlicky, spicy, you like garlicky, garlicky, spicy stuff or just flavorful stuff.
Speaker 1:There's never. There's no such thing as too much garlic. Okay, no. Have you ever had roasted? Do you like garlic? Yes, yes, have you ever had roasted garlic?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do it, we do it in the, we do it in the barbecue, like on the fire. We just like wrap it up in tinfoil and just throw them in like hand grenades.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect, so good, so good, but yeah, and spicy, like I don't, I don't have like a too much spices, too spicy.
Speaker 2:You go to like a Thai restaurant and say give me the local like, give me local spice.
Speaker 1:But the thing is I want to still be able to taste it, like sometimes there's spicy, that like it's hot just to be hot and there's no flavor to it. Like I'm not into that, got it, but otherwise make it spicy.
Speaker 2:Make it Ooh okay.
Speaker 1:Make it spicy, Least favorite foods and then we'll we'll move on from this. At least I'm not a.
Speaker 2:I'm not a, I'm not the the, the, the filth of the sea, kind of person.
Speaker 1:Like seafood.
Speaker 2:I'm a, it's like. It's like I don't. I don't do bone, I don't do like chicken that have the bones in it. I don't know what to do with it. I was spoiled. I was a chicken breast boy, you know. So I just feel like I get like it still gives me a little bit of a. It gives me a little bit of, I would say, anxiety, but it's like, oh shit, someone's served me a like a leg that's got the bone in it.
Speaker 2:Or I've got like a drumstick or a wing, like people go out for wings, like I had wing wings because it was like you guys love doing like 50 cent wing night or some crazy stuff over there and it tastes delicious, but I just don't know what to do with them. Where I'll go out with friends who are like accustomed to bone bony type foods and they'll pick those things clean and it's like I just I just don't enjoy that. Like give me like a big chunky, chunky steak piece of chicken, white, like a big, white, fleshy piece of fish, but then you've got these, these savages, in my opinion, that just just go crazy for, go crazy for these feet, like fish to bite and picking bones out of their face, and then they'll be like oh, this little, this little creature floats to the bottom of the ocean and just looks like a pile of snot. Have him, that's delicious. It's like no, that's not delicious at all.
Speaker 1:That's so funny. I would say, speaking of my dad is a good cook. The thing that he makes like the best. So you know, I don't, I don't eat meat anymore. I'm like I think that if I I'm considering getting seafood again I really love seafood and I do miss it, like the thought of having a piece of salmon or something which like so good, so good, but meat like doesn't really I don't know. Like I couldn't see, doesn't, doesn't. For a long time I was like still, man, I can't, I don't know how I'm going to give up, like completely give up, steak with love. And at some point I was like, not like it didn't even smell good anymore. But my dad's ribs, oh my God, he makes the best ribs and when you were saying that it was like triggering as a child he would make ribs and if you didn't gnaw every last piece of meat off that, but he'd be like you didn't, you didn't, you didn't finish that, you gotta finish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's my challenge. Yeah, that's my challenge, yeah.
Speaker 1:And even now, like I'll see, like one of my sisters or whatever, like they'll be eating, like I'll be, I'll go over there. He'll make, he'll have made ribs and I'm like, why aren't you yelling at them to eat all the meat off their ribs? He's like, oh, I'm chilled out now in my old age. All right, so good.
Speaker 2:So good Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, anything else we're adding to that, we're going to get back to the real stuff.
Speaker 2:Get back. Let's get it back.
Speaker 1:Get back, Okay, so we're actually starting this thing. So we are chatting today about how no like trust really is not. Is maybe not? We're gonna position this as maybe not the best way to sell high ticket courses or programs anymore. What are you?
Speaker 2:talking about when you send me the show notes and hey, by the way, happy fifth, sixth, seventh date anniversary. Like wherever we're at now, like hello, we're back again for another one. So I think we're in now. I think you might see me consistently a little bit more, or you're not. I might ruin it. I might ruin it with this comment, like, hey, like what's the deal, dude? Because you sent me the show notes and I was like there's only one, there's only three things that a business person or a service-based business owner needs to know about. No, like trust, that's it. That's it, that's everything. And then I read that's not enough. Well, yeah, I'll have to ask you about that before we press record, but then I forgot to ask you what's the deal. That's like the Holy Grail, right?
Speaker 1:You want it. Well, did you read the rest of the slides?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna tell you yes, but trust me that's a lie, listen.
Speaker 1:Trust me, that's a lie, I know it's a lie, because had you read them you would know the answer to that question.
Speaker 2:But well done, because if people are sitting there going, yeah, who's with me? Like I reckon there'd be a few people who'd be with Steve right now going, what do you mean? There's more to it than no lie and trust. That's it. That's what everything's about. In order for you to get someone to buy something from you, they need to know you, they need to like you, they like to trust you. Ha, you got an extra one.
Speaker 1:There is an extra one now which the extra one was actually. I came up with this because of you. It was something that you said originally. I was like, oh, that's it. Because I've said, for I think from the day one, the first time we ever sat down and did anything together, I'm pretty sure that I was already saying no, like distrust, where they can like you, but they inherently don't trust you because there's been too much manipulation and there's too much false scarcity and there's too much grossly over promising and under delivering and they don't trust you anymore. They just don't. And that's where we're at. And you said something one day where I don't remember what the context was. I remember what we were talking about. I don't remember how it came up, but you said the word respect.
Speaker 2:I remember exactly where we were.
Speaker 1:Oh good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were talking about events and challenges.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:And it came about of that and then we spent some time. But yeah, that was where I and I knew what we were gonna talk about. I just wanted to try and create some podcast suspense and maybe just see if I could convince you that I genuinely had no idea what you were gonna talk to us about, what we were gonna talk about on this episode, but that's it.
Speaker 1:You did do that to me actually.
Speaker 2:Oh, really Are you worried.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh, maybe you didn't read all the slides, All right.
Speaker 2:The messaging last it's we're back in our own country. Respect the country's name. So for those wondering like, how does this all work time?
Speaker 1:zone. Wise, hang on, you gotta take that again.
Speaker 2:Do what?
Speaker 1:Take two on whatever you just said. I've gotten zero of it. From the zero, you became robot, steve.
Speaker 2:Oh, robot, robot, Steve, robot, steve. Yeah, so for those of you playing along at home, we're back on the, we're back in our respective countries.
Speaker 1:Why, emily? I was actually by respect, you're right. I wish I weren't.
Speaker 2:I'm back in Oz, so that means that time travel has happened as well as time, as well as time zone. So that's always. It's always a challenge, because now it's afternoon and it's early morning here for me. So when I say last night we were messaging, last night before I like passed out and I didn't leave enough hours of sleep for me usually, but I was having too much fun thinking about the no like trust and respect aspect. But I did, I sent you some, we were sending some cool stuff, so you shouldn't shouldn't worry that I forgot what we were talking about.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, good job, good job. Leading me on with that, because I believed it I was. I did also have the active thought. When you responded to me, I was like why aren't you asleep? You, we've got to speak at five in the morning.
Speaker 2:That's true, but then you forget. You forget. My re-entry into my country was like brutal, so maybe I'm still. Maybe I'm still affected a little bit by the old lag of the jet.
Speaker 1:The lag of the jet Is it was it? Is it better than it was the other way around?
Speaker 2:It wasn't too bad, it's just it's more of like a. It's more of a real micro dose of lag. It's it's still there. It's like like I normally would not be sitting up at 11 PM midnight, knowing I got a five AM call. I wouldn't be up that late, but it was like I was sitting there going. I don't want to get up there, I don't want to sleep. Now that's weird. That's weird for me. So that just tells me that I'm not. I'm not fully, I'm not fully adjusted.
Speaker 2:But what I love is I love that. I love that what we've sort of talked about in the lead up to this, like this, is a really cool episode, because what we've been talking up to in the lead up to this really highlights that need for the, the respect aspect of no like distrust, which was the start, and then no like trust. Good. But it's still not enough. Now, because of all the stuff that we've sort of that sort of led us to here, which is the bros, the woos, the way that the market has become more sophisticated and more aware of all these tactics, it's not enough to get them to buy or believe or commit to you as a practitioner. Trust alone is not enough.
Speaker 1:Trust alone is not enough, and I would like to preface before we get too far into this. So the whole, the whole idea of this, this episode, is that we're talking about not just how to make sales, but how do you extend your lifetime customer value so that people will actually continue to come back to you. We may or may not get to that. We may cut it in half and do the second half, depending on how we can be long-winded.
Speaker 2:We like to chat. We do like to chat.
Speaker 1:I'll take the blame for most of that, because I know that I'm I'm very I'm long-winded on my own.
Speaker 2:I don't know if, if you were left to your own devices, if you would be more concise than Look, we're gonna talk about I think that's gonna come up in this, in this episode anyway is that obviously there's a quality. There's quality and quantity. That's a that's they don't necessarily need to both be present for you to have something good, which I think a lot of people are making that mistake. But yeah, I think what we just like to, we like to the chat it up. We're both practitioners of the arts in some way, shape or form, so that means we like to like story it up a bit, we'd like to add a little bit of depth, bit of start, middle, and so, yeah, People will tell us if they're not enjoying, if they're not enjoying the richness of how.
Speaker 1:They would, they would, and the feedback I get is they like it. So give the people what they want, I say.
Speaker 2:Hey, put that down as a show note. Give the people what they want. Seriously, if people just did that, that's a start. That's a really good way. It's a really good start. Yeah, think about how you can get started in what we're gonna talk about, like we'll go into some other really practical and pragmatic ways to do the respect aspect. But yeah, if you just think about what do the people want, what are they saying, and then if you listen to some of our other episodes where we've talked about how you could find out what people are saying without them directly saying it to you AKA the data of your program, the numbers of your internal and external metrics they are all the feelers of what the people want.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I'm not gonna let this sidetrack us, but I read a study, because why would I?
Speaker 2:You can't preface that, because that means we're getting sidetracked. That's what we're supposed to do. We have to get down to it. It's just a jump to the left.
Speaker 1:We're just gonna do it. And it's a, you're loopy, it's 5 am, you're sleep deprived. Anything's possible, I'll allow it. Yeah, I'll allow it. I'll allow it. What do you? Would you not allow it if you?
Speaker 2:Dude, you're driving this. You can just cut this out later and you put it back in with me. You'd be like, oh, Steve's just gone back to bed and I'm just gonna have a quick spot about this.
Speaker 1:Steve's gone back to bed. That's hilarious, and I just had my own little segment inside of our show. It's fine. What I was going to say is I read a study this week that, speaking of data, fun little nugget is that you are 23 times more likely to make a sale and 19 times more likely to have higher profit margins or to turn a profit in your business when you use data to make decisions.
Speaker 1:Alright, I used that, alright, alright, okay, so what I wanted to preface this with because we're so we're going to talk about earning sales, keeping set earning sales and then continuing to make sales for people who want to continue to work with you. But for anyone who heard like no, like trust, like that's overly simplified. I want to be clear on how I interpret this and I would be interested to hear your, your interpretation. So, like, when we're talking about your making high ticket course or group group program sales, the no aspect is is making sure that your audience understands how you actually help solve their problem. That's the no factor. Liking is establishing a rapport, enough, through shared values, that you're going to be able to provide them with a solution that is, that is congruent with their own values. And then trust is your ability to demonstrate that you actually have the capacity to help someone solve the problem, and that's where things start to go.
Speaker 1:And then you have to ask you because there are a lot of people who look they, they look in the moment like they can help you solve the problem and then, once you're in it, you realize they cannot, or they make really wild, like the $100,000 a month promise yes, what? And doesn't have to be that wild, would you?
Speaker 2:add that's a really nice. That's a really nice way, that's a really nice way to break it down. And I think the way that the way that we interpreted is this is the same. We just we just look for. We just look for, when it comes to vehicle like delivery, vehicle to build, no like contrast, we look at, we look at like what's the most effective way to do that, and it's transference of knowledge, like it's teaching, teaching people how to do stuff, so that gives you the make people aware that you can solve their problem. So the the no, I'm like do I dig your vibe? Are we on the same sort of same sort of level? Because how you coach and how I coach a different, so it will resonate with different people, and that's really important.
Speaker 2:If I'm going to spend money, I want to make sure that. I want to make sure that I either I either resonate with you and you know, either complimentary, like resonance, like I'm trying to formulate in what I want to say. I'm just making sure this is the first time I've done this I'm just making sure what I'm about to say is correct. It's like we either compliment you, either compliment my style, or you're not my style, because I've had coaches who I don't necessarily like from a let's go and have a beer, but it's, I like your style because I think it's good for me. They were complete opposites. They were a little bit like, a little bit harder and more direct and held me to account, but I'm like, oh, I actually really like that Like, like, like, would we be friends? Probably not, but I, from a, from a coaching perspective, I like, I like that style. And then the trust aspect is. Yet I love how you summed up the trust aspect. That was really good. So actually proving that you can do what you, what you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so interesting because I completely agree with that from like the if I'm going to hire someone as a coach and some type of coaching or mentor capacity, I don't necessarily like if it's going to be we're going to meet one on one, I'm going to need to like them as a friend, in a friend sort of way. Like I don't think I could handle that relationship. But like I'm in a mentorship program right now and the person is kind of abrasive and I really appreciate that. Actually, like when I hear it happen with other people, I'm like, oh, how are they gonna, how are they going to sit with that? But like I appreciate directness, so like it can come off as a bit harsh, but on the flip side of that, like I I do not enjoy coaching relationships.
Speaker 1:If I'm even if it's not a one on one setting, if I'm working with someone, I want to like them as a human being, like someone that we because I'm going to become friends with you, that's. There's just sort of the way that it's going to go for me, like if you are, if you hire me, I'm probably going to become friends with you. It would be really hard for me to not have that. I don't know that, that that report. Could you go the other way around?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have, I have. I would say yeah, I would say in certain, in certain circumstances, yeah, that's, that's, that's okay In the fitness, in the fitness world, in the fitness world, you run the risk of, you run the risk of the, the friend, the French, the French. I'm going to become friends with my coach, yeah, yeah, but the best coaches I've ever had, it wasn't. It, wasn't it like there was a clear line of like this is what this is like, this is what this is, this is what this relationship is. It doesn't extend into anything else or there's no nothing beyond this. This is the, this is the relationship. So, yeah, I think it's, I think it's situational and I think I think it's cool to.
Speaker 2:I think it's cool if friendship happens as a byproduct of, of what you, of what you do in a business, from a business capacity perspective, if you're, if you're going in with the intention of being, one of the things that's going to happen is we're going to become friends. I don't know, like, I think, depending on your offer and like what you're doing, that would just be, it'd be better that it's a byproduct and maybe not mentioned, like it wouldn't be something I'd stick, stick in. My, you know point of difference is we're going to be friends at the end of this project. That's, that's, that's just. But that's just me though, but definitely in the likability side of things. But I think you'll also get, I think, through trust and through getting to know that they can, you can solve their problem.
Speaker 2:Like also happens, like likes. One of the likes, one of the easier ones, I would say, out of those three plus and the fourth that we'll talk about in terms of, I'd say, likes, the easiest one if you're just doing your thing right, yeah, yeah, cause people even like you or they don't, and that's good too, that's great if they don't because they're not going to, they're not going to hang around to listen to anything that you've got to say. Or if you're like Chris and I, I will listen to everything Chris says for the rest of her natural life. That was in our earlier episodes, just so that I can remind Chris that I'm still here listening.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that's all. That's a totally different situation.
Speaker 2:Of course, of course, of course, of course we're gonna.
Speaker 1:we're gonna leave that there, okay okay. Okay, so let's chat about if you want to, if you want to make sales, you've got to earn someone's trust. That's the whole. This is this is our thesis statement is essentially if you want to, if you want to make sales, you have to earn someone's trust. If you want to make repeat sales, you've got to keep someone's. I said my thesis statement wrong Sales listening to trust. Trust.
Speaker 2:Trust. That's a fair statement. I think that's. I think that's what people. I think that's what people think is enough right at the moment. I think they think that.
Speaker 2:I think that if I, if I demonstrate that I know my stuff, if I'm likeable, and then you subsequently trust that I can deliver on what I tell you I can deliver on or give you what I, you will trust me and then it's on, Cool. Yeah, I would say that that is exactly what people think. Yep, but for our thesis it's it's, it's more, it's like Ariel and the little mermaid. I want more.
Speaker 1:She's. She's my favorite, it's. It's the red, it's a red hair thing, it's fine, it must be, it must be. And so the first will thesis statement if you, if you want to, if you want to make sales, you have to earn someone's respect, and if you want to, can make repeat sales, then you have to keep someone's respect. That's, that's the thesis statement.
Speaker 1:And so, if you're listening to this and you're going no, I trust, like the, the person that we're really speaking to is the one who has already made sales. They're helping along, making sales, making sales, they're doing all right, and then, all of a sudden, it's not not going so well anymore. The sales have plateaued, or they or there's been a downturn, or they realize their the word congruent again is the way in which they're selling is is not congruent with their values. Because we're speaking to people who value, like you, service above all else. We want to actually help the people that we're taking money from. That's the idea, and if you, if that is not one of your values, if you are not all about giving someone what they paid for, this is not the right place for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah that's that's cool, that that's cool. It was broken into those two areas and an example, like an example of of how like so trust and respect there they touch each other, they hang out like they go out on the weekends and hang out together because you can, you, you, you. I don't think you can have one without the other, and I think the order of the order of the equation is trust, then respect comes, respect comes after. A perfect example of it is what happened with webinars, what BroWooz did to webinars. Right, so you the, the webinar model, the concept of a webinar is fantastic, and then it just gets destroyed. It just got destroyed, but the example of it is hey, come to this one hour webinar where I will teach you these three secrets or the three things or the five things that will make you $100,000 a month. Yep, I'm in.
Speaker 2:But what's happened is they've engineered a cool headline, they've got you with a cool hook, they've got you with a dollar promise, they've got you with the five things or the three things, all these recipes of sales and marketing. They've got you right. So I go in there and go, oh cool, that's. Yeah, I'd like to learn a little bit more like that. Oh, this person that's delivering it. Yeah, they're pretty cool, I like them. Yep, I know that they can do the, the, the, the, the talking about stuff and that the, what they're saying is something that I'm interested in, but then they don't teach you the five things, they just tell you what they are and then they leave out all the how and then they pitch you and so straight away I'm out Like that's distrust and it's disrespectful yes, fundamentally that's disrespectful to your audience to say that you're going to give them the three five things and then not give it to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is one of the four. Four making the sales. Being being able to make the sales requires you developing respect with the, with your prospective client, your lead, whatever you want to call them. Number one respect their time, okay, particularly during sales events.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:And you've said this before that the way that you say it is probably going to be more eloquent than the way that I'm going to pop this out right now is your. If you know where I'm going with this, take it. I know exactly where you're going, but probably Go for it. Go for it.
Speaker 2:There's this dark side of the force where I'm like I just. Sometimes it's like the Joker in Batman, right, Heath Ledger Joker Sometimes, Mr Wayne, People just want to watch the world. But there was a little moment in me there where I was like maybe I'll just.
Speaker 2:You just wanted to let me struggle. Just leave you like trying to run around in this little circle to try and figure it out. No, not at all, of course. What we were talking about is it was in our adventures of falling in love with each other's process and model and just way of existing. And we were talking about challenges and I came out and said I came out and said, hey, you need what if you just halved this challenge? Or what if you even you could deliver this challenge in 20 minutes, 30 minutes? And then we consumed some challenges or we consumed some sales events that were 90 minutes, 120 minutes long sessions back to back to back over days, and it was not delivering on anything Like it was just a game. It was just wasting the audience's time.
Speaker 2:So it came back to say that, yeah, to respect your audience's time in your sales activities, you really need to understand what you're giving them and then make sure that you're not wasting it. You don't need, in my opinion, you don't need and this is what it was you don't need 90 minutes, or your challenge days don't need to be an hour long. Your webinars don't need to be 120 minutes long. You don't need to be a little bit more than that. You don't need to be a little bit more than that. You don't need to be 120 minutes.
Speaker 2:They need to be as long as it takes for you to demonstrate that you know your stuff and hit the truss like hit the truss, tick, but then also you're then able to say, hey, listen, I get it, you're busy. I don't want to take any more time than I need to to give you what you need to be able to go and do this here. It is Any questions Like it's not rushed. We're not saying rushed, I'm just saying that I could cut every. I could cut every challenge out there in half and probably increase their results just on respecting time alone.
Speaker 1:So much padding out so much. And the thing you didn't actually say, the thing that I was trying to really poorly trying to spit out. It's basically what you said, but you didn't say it in so many words. Is that true? Oh, this is what it was. I was just saying that, true, mastery is your ability to say something quickly. It was something to that effect.
Speaker 2:That's Albert Einstein. Dude, that's not me, that's Albert Einstein.
Speaker 1:Well, I was giving you credit for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true mastery is your ability to strip something, strip a concept down to its simplest form. I had my little bit which is like, and be able to articulate it in a timely manner, right, that's your job as an expert.
Speaker 1:Thanks, alvin, yeah.
Speaker 2:Dude, there's actually a cool Aussie version of side note permission to sidebar the witness token.
Speaker 1:I call those tokens. Let's go for it.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much If you're interested listeners. It'll be hard to find this, like I don't know how you're going to find this, because I only have this on VHS. That was recorded off the television. Oh, it still survived. It still survived all these years, because I don't want to get rid of it, because I don't know where I would find it elsewhere. There is a movie called Young Einstein.
Speaker 1:Young Einstein.
Speaker 2:OK, it's an Aussie film. The actor, His name is Yahoo Sirius.
Speaker 1:I know that name. Somehow. Keep going that name.
Speaker 2:He's a wild cat. He's out of the job, ok. Young Einstein takes Albert Einstein's origin story and puts him in Tasmania, which is an island of it. It's a state of Australia, yeah, but it's an island Beautiful.
Speaker 1:Disconnected mainland.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mainland Aussies have comments about Tasmanians, but Tasmania is beautiful, it is an amazing place. But it takes Einstein's origin story to him being his parents being apple farmers in Tasmania and he is a young kid on the apple farm with his dad, ok, and his whole quest is to put bubbles into his dad's beer and he uses E equals MC squared to as the foundational like as his foundational concept to go to the mainland and sell the idea of putting bubbles into beer and becoming like a Nobel Prize winning scientist. It's literally. It is so good, it's so incorrect.
Speaker 1:It's so ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so ridiculous, but you get a taste of Australia across this thing.
Speaker 1:OK, young Einstein.
Speaker 2:Young Einstein. I highly recommend him.
Speaker 1:I'm serious.
Speaker 2:Yahoo Serious.
Speaker 1:OK, there was a different Aussie film that you were like, if you want to really know, like bizarre Australian culture, you recommended it. A movie I don't remember, do you know offhand?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the castle would be the castle would.
Speaker 1:Got it, got it. Yeah, all right, ok, going back into and we're back. So we're back, we're back. So, number one respect your time during sales events. Do we want to say anything more about that? Had we more or less?
Speaker 2:No, I think it's worth. I think it's worth looking at it, maybe, maybe, squeezing a little bit more juice out of this because, good, it's underrated, it's underrated and it will. What it will do is it will be the most uncomfortable thing that you will do in a sales process is to reduce the time that you sell.
Speaker 2:So in the end, so if you think about, if you think about webinars, the sweet spot of a webinar for me personally is like 3045. It's not like you think they default to 60. 60 to 90 is like the webinar sweet spot. Now I get it right. You need time to be able to build no like and trust, but you don't need that much time. You don't, you don't. If you can't, if you are unable to, as an expert which you should be, if you're, if you're running an, if you're a service-based business offering high ticket programs, you're an expert will just make that assumption. If you are a true expert, you should be able to articulate your stuff. It's more simply.
Speaker 1:Simply, and that part of that hinges on you're not using all the nonsense stuff that they teach you to do in a traditional webinar. That's right. That's right, otherwise you're going to go down the rabbit hole of there's just a bunch of yeah, of course, Like your origin, your origin story.
Speaker 2:If you follow brother Brunson's Kool-Aid drinking festival, you're going to do like out of an hour, you're going to do 15 minutes of who am I and what's my story and why you should listen to me. Then, like, cut that shit out, like I would. I really, I really would do more than 10 seconds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm Steve. If you want to read, like, if you want to read about my history, head over to learn awesomecom. Now you can. You can check that out. But here I want to just get and guess what you can actually say what you're doing. I want to actually respect your time here, folks, and make it all about you, so let's just get straight into it. Is that okay? If you live, is that okay? Just give me a thumbs up in the chat If you don't want to know my entire life history. Cool, beautiful, great.
Speaker 2:Let's go and actually get on to what I promised to give you straight up that statement alone. You're already starting to shift the needle in like the respect that people will pay attention. They're like what are you not going to their condition to be like oh, here we go, I'll come back. I'm going to go make a cup of tea. I'll be back in 15 minutes. When this dude stopped talking about how good it is, all right, oh wait, whoa, we're into it already. Beautiful Day, one of the challenge Day, one of five of your challenge is not let's do a prequel and do what Chris did and talk to us for an hour before the first point was made.
Speaker 2:Yes, hey, let's just get straight into it and think about these are the steps that we're going to take. Step one let's go, and then off you go. But that's so. It's so underrated. It will make you feel so uncomfortable, but the holy, the holy numbers, the data will tell you whether it works or not. And what we've seen with our data is that it's an initial shock to your system, but the flow on effect for your business is significant and positive for Sherlock.
Speaker 1:It's almost like to throw an analogy. I might throw some analogies in because I like using them. So you know, like when you look at a TV show or a movie that's got a really slow start, you lose a lot of people. Like I remember having a conversation, like I really like the show the Handmaid's Tale and I remember in the beginning it was. It was hard to watch in the beginning that it was just like so slowly, but once you got into it it was, it was worth it. Like it's one of the shows it's a slow burn. That's that way. Mad Men is a little bit of a slow burn.
Speaker 2:I love Mad Men, love Mad Men, love me about Mad.
Speaker 1:Men, yeah, you will highly recommend you should watch Mad Men. You don't have to, but there you know. And then movies that like take a long time to set up, where they're going with something like, you'll lose a lot of people there and there will, there will be people who just will not finish watching it because they they don't have the attention span. So that's and I'm going to make the assertion and here's where you could disagree with me is that most people don't have the capability to recover from that. When they're, when they're teaching something themselves, you know like a movie is different. It's, you know the analogy isn't completely comparable because you have incredibly talented screenwriters and people who are being paid their top of their field to be doing this, you know, to be able to recover that slow burn storyline. You can't recover from that when you're just sitting in your chair on zoom like people. You're going to lose people and maybe if you're live, you'll keep them, but if you're, if someone's watching a replay, they're out.
Speaker 2:So true.
Speaker 1:Would you agree with that analogy, like, do you think that's an out of track?
Speaker 2:I would say I prefer, I prefer delivering stuff on zoom, because zoom and like online, online events or online sales experience are respectful to your audience. They are, by virtue of the fact that they can consume it at their time, their pace, where they are in the world. They don't have to travel, they don't have to do anything. I've got a conference today and I've had to travel. I've had to travel, just I've had to travel. Airfares, accommodation, breakfast, lunches, dinners Like it's expensive, like I'm going to be paying. I'm going to be paying more for this like day of conference, in the grand scheme of things, than I've paid for most of my international travel this year. It's like, oh my gosh, like it's not getting you any of that back.
Speaker 2:It's just painful. No, it's a business expense, it's right off a ball. But it's like, yeah, it's one of those things where I'm just I'm up here, so as a participant, if you're a participant at the conference, it's the same deal. I was having a chat to the organizer about it and I, like he goes, I want to run more events. I'm like, yeah, maybe you need to run one live event a year and then you run some digital events so that people don't have to. You know you can respect their financial needs to be able to. Yes, they're interested in consuming your content, but I can't afford the ticket to Sydney or I can't afford to fly here in the hotel and because it's all the extra stuff that that costs money so.
Speaker 2:I think I think that's a massive, I think that's a massive plus of, say, the zoom environment. Yes, live, there's energy, yes, there's all this sort of stuff. But, as we've talked about in other sessions, you just it's not the same. If you treat live, a live in person thing, the same as a zoom session, you're doing the wrong. You need to actually manufacture the zoom, get the engagement out there, and a surefire way to do that is to trim the, is to trim the fat for sure. Yeah, and it's absolutely unrecoverable and in a replay, forget about it, Absolutely forget about it. And here's another example of respect If you and I love the people that listen to listen to us like it's, it's fantastic.
Speaker 2:I'm a guest. I'm still feel like a guest in the house a little bit, which is which is cool. It's like it's like going over to you. It's like going over to you significant others, parents, house and like you know that. You know that you're like that's not never going to be your place. You're never going to be able to like fully, be yourself there. You're always on. You always have to like oh, I've done enough here.
Speaker 1:But I feel about that now. I don't. It'll never be enough, I'll never belong. That's what you're comparing this podcast to.
Speaker 2:Can you remind me of where I was going before? I was just side side tracks.
Speaker 1:You were saying, you were saying that if it's unrecoverable from zoom, and then you started to say and and I have no idea where you were I was like I wonder if you're going to say the same thing that I want to say right now.
Speaker 2:Maybe you say what you were going to say, and then I might, might, spark my might, spark my soul back into.
Speaker 1:All right, recover, steve, recover. What I was going to say is, if you are one of the people who puts a replay up and does not allow for controls of that video it is what you were going to say that's perfect. Like I don't have the ability to scrub through because, for sure, if you talked to me for 15 minutes or 30 minutes, I've seen some. It's like if I can't even move the thing through, also, if I can't watch it on two X speed, I'm out and that's not even for me. That's a that is honestly like a learning what's inclusivity thing? Like my brain I cannot watch something and in normal there's something like speaking to you right now. It's fine. I can stay engaged enough because we're in the conversation watching a video. If it's at one X speed, I'll get distracted, like I'm off someplace else. If I can't turn that thing on two X like that's the way my brain needs to. It just needs rapid fire. So like, why are you making it hard for people to watch a replay?
Speaker 2:But it's not just replay, dude, it's not like I think. I think that's exactly where I was going. Thank you for this. Thank you for the sake, Bravo, Bravo, I'm already. I'm like. I'm already like drifting, like like jacked it in Titanic, or is it like I'm like go Jack? I'm like Jack just disappearing into the ether with the violins playing, but I'm coming back.
Speaker 1:I'll never let go. And you're dead, frozen in the water.
Speaker 2:Why do I reckon the directors are going to release like Titanic Titanic to the multiverse and like earth 674. Jack will come back and hang out with Rose.
Speaker 1:I'm really going to sidetrack us here. I've heard the most fascinating thing about the Titanic the other day, that is, there is new evidence that suggests from like all the dives that they're doing down there, that it was not actually the iceberg that sunk them, what that it was. There was a fire that started in the same place that the, that it struck the iceberg and had the fire not started, it structurally would probably have been able to maintain the hit.
Speaker 1:Oh I don't know if I'm getting all that, If I'm getting all that completely correctly, but I was like what that? Is yeah, that's super. Call Leo, call Kate, you gotta remake the movie. We do it again. We do it.
Speaker 2:Oh man, but yeah, it's not just, it's not just your replays, right? If we and I love giving a little little tips and tricks like this, here's a little way to audit your insert, the way that you sell your stuff here. So, and it works for anything Webinar can I scrub through it, yes or no? If the answer is no, I'm going to. I don't and people are. But, steve, I need you to need them to know my stuff in order. I need them to shoot because it's a, because it's an orchestrated dance. No, no, bad, bad listener, bad listener, no, no, you don't. Seriously, you're, you're pissing people off, you're disrespecting them. Boom, you've got a VSL. If you've got a VSL on your website, you're doing VSL, which is basically like a webinar that's just not opted in or not gated, or it's gated, whatever. If you've got a VSL and you can't scrub it, if I can't watch it at two X speed, stop it yeah, fix it, yeah.
Speaker 1:I went to somebody. Yes, that happened to me this week. Yeah, exactly, I just, I just won't do it.
Speaker 2:I won't do it and I'll find a way and this is just me, because that's how I roll I will find a way to download your VSL or download your webinar and I will scrub it myself. I'll take the extra step if I'm interested. But I will be so frustrated that you've made me have to go to that level to have to like hack it in and grab the video. But it's not looking good for you, like I'm not coming in now having to take that extra effort. So, yeah, vsls, webinars, replays of events, if you're running, if you're running your, if you're running your stuff live, yeah, you don't have.
Speaker 2:But that's the beauty of live, right, the live is the only time, whether it's in person or zoom or whatever your platform of choice is. That's your chance to get to do it at real speed. That's your chance to do it in order. But everything else after that, respect equals choice. Let your user choose, use their way of consuming your content. That's learning as well, right? So there's the, there's that learning theory that says you know, people want the choice to be able to consume your content in their preferred way. Preferred, not. If I don't have a video, I can't learn it's. My preference is visual. Therefore I will go to visual if it's there, so at least just put it there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, we. There are six total things that I wanted to get through. We've gotten through one of them. So, which is me, like I'm supposed to be the moderator of this conversation. So that's on me. We know we're saying this because we know that Steve has to give a conference presentation then. So we are, we've got places to go. So let's try to get through the other, the other two, let's go to the other two and then we'll say we can do the how to keep people's respect.
Speaker 1:What's next Number two. So helping people feel understood through your messaging. So this is part of this is a little bit inception for me. I love doing like training inceptions or sales inceptions, like it was essentially. What we're doing right now is what I'm teaching you. So the where I'm going with this is in the in the very beginning of this, where we said no, like in trust is not necessarily the best way to sell your high ticket course or coaching program anymore.
Speaker 1:That's called, if you do like the way that I learned this is called the thought reversal. I know some people who call it like epiphany post or epiphany content, like something that's going to go wait a second, what like? That's not. I didn't realize. What are you talking about? That's not the way that I've thought about this, and then you can go okay, well, here's, here's my, my proposal of what's actually different about this and why I think there's a better way now. And we we added in you've been making sales, you've been clipping along making sales for a while now, but your sales have either plateaued or they've, or they've declined, or it just doesn't feel good anymore the way that you're selling. And if all this we said a lot, we really tangent and went off and this could have been a lot more concise. But like that, for me, I call this we could have, we could have been more concise.
Speaker 1:I call that diagnostic education, which we'll get into in a different, in a different day, but it's the the. The short little snippet of it is the the point of education. The whole purpose of education is to help someone understand. Diagnostic education has the intention of helping someone to feel understood and when you can do that with messaging, you are establishing respect in a way that like, imagine, imagine someone who, like I find this happens quite a lot with what I do because I say a lot of things like you're making, you're making sales, but you don't actually have the freedom that you're telling people that like, oh, I can help you have it. You know you're six figure business and you and you can have freedom.
Speaker 1:People don't comment on my stuff because there's a little bit of shame around it or they don't want people to know that that's what's actually going on with them. So they're that to me says they're not willing to admit it. So if you've never admitted something to anyone in your life, maybe outside of your, like partner or whatever that this thing is happening with your business, or this thing is happening with your body or your whatever it is that you know you're selling to this person, and here comes, here comes Steve, who just articulates every thought that's been in your head about. I've been nervous that this is happening and this has been going on in my business and this is what I've been trying to do to fix it.
Speaker 1:And this is what when you can tap into that, it's the most powerful thing you're ever going to experience with someone, because they're going to look like not only are you in their head, you're in their head in a way that, like they didn't even know how to articulate it until right now, like the. It's really, really powerful. Amazing. Do you have questions about that? Do you have?
Speaker 2:I just think it's, I just think it's, I think it's cool, I think it's cool and I think again it. It relies on you being the expert, but it relies on you being able to not make it about you, which I see a lot of. I see a lot of experts who are leaving opportunity on the table because they can't remove themselves from the messaging, from the sales, from the education Right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, is it an ego thing.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's ego, right. Maybe it's the ego that's stopping you, or maybe it's just the way that you've been being taught. This is that you have to build. You have to build like the know, the like the trust, through showing how good you are. No, no, no. You need to connect and show the audience, show your potential clients, show your learners that you get them. You hear where they're at and you show them where they're at you, basically like sticking the mirror up in there and giving them that. That's what I got out of what you said there, so I think I think that was the. That was right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what you said is I hadn't thought about it this way, so that I really like this. So thank you for saying it in this way. To connect these dots was you have to be the expert in order to do this? Well, but also you have to be willing to make it not about you. The thing that I would add to that is you need to have the discernment to be able to understand when to do which, because you have to be an expert enough to be able to actually say this is you know, this is what's actually going on with my people, either because they told me, or because I've experienced, or whatever the case may be. But you have to be able to remove ego. You're right on that.
Speaker 1:It is almost always ego, and ego manifests as fear, perfectionism, procrastination or whatever, and it's ego gets in the way of like, what do you mean?
Speaker 1:It's not, it's not what I want, it's not the way that I was thinking it was going to be. But when you look at something like here I'm going to give you another analogy is I don't know if you've ever heard heard this, but like Henry Ford had said at some point, this is really an analogy, but we'll, whatever is. He said that if I'd have listened to what people wanted, I would have I would have made a faster horse. Like you have to know, you have to be enough of the expert to understand what people actually need and I'm not talking about the gross what people need of like give the people what they want but then give them what they actually need. I think that's very manipulative. But, like you have to have a, you have to have enough of an understanding of what people are going through to understand how to innovate. And that does not mean like creation, it means, I think innovation very often means removing steps, making something faster and something better.
Speaker 2:That's right, but it's also I think it's also knowing you've, you've, you've. Now that right, we're not saying, we're not saying that the customer is always right and you need to panda to, you need to panda to the customer when you know, as the expert, that that's not right. That's the reason, probably, why they haven't got the results. So that's what they're coming to you for. We're saying that you need to allow them to see themselves in your messaging and connect that way. Yeah, as well, as well as the fact that when you're, when you're teaching them, you need to remember them in the teaching, because most experts expert fallacy.
Speaker 2:The 10 step process we've talked about this. There's 10 steps to the process. You will, as an expert, you'll start at step five unintentionally, because you're already capable. You just can't remember what it was like to have to do step four, three, two and one. Now, if you start at step five and you start teaching from step five and you've missed the mark with your audience because you haven't taken the time so this is where you would need to take time to respect where your audience might be at and start at step one, you're going to disengage. You'll never, you'll never get a chance to pitch them because they'll feel the audience will feel I'm not enough, I'm not smart enough. Why isn't this making sense? What's wrong with me? That's your fault, that's on you as well. So, yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 2:There's a lot Heavy is the crown that the expert wears, but I think the experts that have gone gone into this I don't think any of them are aware how much effort it takes to be an expert when you're offering coaching, courses et cetera. I think it was. I think it's been framed by others as a really cool way to like get more time back and make more money and be infinitely scalable. Yes, yes, yes, when done well. But fundamentally, if you want to teach people and courses, we make the. We make the assumption that you actually give a shit about your learners. Right, that's the cost of being an expert is that you're now educating people and that's a that's a privileged position. To be a coach, guide or a mentor, yeah, teach that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm going to give you a little bit of time. Okay, amazing, keep it on a schedule, trying to. The last thing that I would say for the being able to earn their respect is allowing them to consent throughout your sales process.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? You're not going to, you're not going to like kibosh me with NLP and making me wake up four days later going. Why is where did that $5,000 come out of my credit card?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, none of that. No, thank you, and I don't we've talked about this. I don't think we've ever we've. We've talked about how. We've never talked about this. The selling is like dating analogy.
Speaker 2:Oh, please.
Speaker 1:Please. So it's, it's the, it's this, it's this concept of if you were in a bar and I don't want to make the assumption that it would not go the same way if the, if the genders were reversed, but, like, I'm going to tell this from from the, from the girl's perspective, and I don't know how it would change from the from the guy's perspective but if, if she's sitting there at the bottom minding our own business, let's say even she had, she'd swiped whichever way you swipe right To to have the date with the guy and he, he walks it or whomever, then they walk in and immediately, just like, come up behind and say like hey, let's get out of here. Whoa, Whoa, All right, Like how many? Maybe, if you say it to enough people, you might get someone to say yes to that. Someone in the bar might say yes to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your numbers right, so your conversion rate would be like.01, something of a percent.
Speaker 1:So funny, so timely.
Speaker 2:I was having a conversation with a colleague yesterday about the dating world. They were in the dating world and very interesting, and the comment was that online dating has ruined guys approaching girls in bars and stuff. There's just no confidence, there's no this, and so what would you do? I go, well, you have to ask permission. So it's relevant to this. It's very hey, are you open to me flirting with you right now?
Speaker 1:First consent question, like approach, you would actually ask the question in that way.
Speaker 2:Why not? Because if the answer is no, guess what? No means no dudes, walk away, shoot your shot. Oh my gosh, you had your chance. But, if the answer is yes, cool, you've been given permission to proceed.
Speaker 1:And that's exactly it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, if you come in if you come in, if you come steaming in and just be like, hey, let's get out of here. No, I'm out. You haven't got that at all. The message is wrong.
Speaker 1:Wrong, wrong, wrong and we don't have enough time to get. We can go If we want to really go down this road, like how the let's finish this point.
Speaker 2:Let's finish this point around. What we were talking about. We were talking about the final point.
Speaker 1:Well, at every step, you should be re. You should be looking for consent at every step. So it's not enough to just so you say is it okay if I flirt with you? Yes, great. What's the next point of consent? Would you like to have dinner with me? Yes, great. Would you like to have dinner again with me? Yes, is it like? Whatever you would want, however, that process is going to go.
Speaker 1:You can do that in your sales process as well. You build in checkpoints to make sure that people still want to be there. It's at the beginning of your training, saying I'm going to pitch you something at the end and if you're not, if that's not okay with you, it's not going to hurt my feelings if you leave now and if you don't want to stick around once I get to that point, it's okay if you leave, and I'm going to remind you of that when we get to that point. So when we get to the end, I'm going to say to you again I'm about to go into the pitch. It's okay if you want to leave and please do hit the exit button. There's no reciprocity required here. You're not actually asking for people to type yes in the chat if you want to stay for the pitch.
Speaker 2:That's maybe a little more on my board Disclosing what's happening, and you're letting them Right this is a business in case you forgot, we're not just giving away for nothing.
Speaker 2:There's a reason for it, because we've got this next thing and we think it's going to help. We're going to think it's going to help you, but we're not going to force you or we're not going to disguise it. I was reading, I was reading Jim Edwards' book, which is one of Russell's. He's a copywriter, he's part of the ClickFunnels Brigade, but I'm reading his book and fundamentally, jim, well done, brother, you nailed the fundamentals. However, he is also one of the architects of this shitstorm that's been created around the manipulative and then the dark arts tactics, and one of his suggestions is the secret clothes, or the hidden clothes. It's like, bro, that's not going to cut it in what we're talking about right here, and there's a surefire way to not get that consent and not provide that disclosure around.
Speaker 2:Hey, you're in charge of this journey customer prospect. Like. I've orchestrated this process because I believe this program is going to be good for you and this knowledge is important for you. I'm the expert. I've put it in the right way for you to consume it so that you can get maximum value. Hey, there's another way for us to work together, if you want. Do you want to hear about it, your choice. I'm going to do it Like I've got. I've taken an hour of your time. I've got 10 more minutes I'm going to take to go through this. If you want to hang around, please. If not, there you go, beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, yep.
Speaker 2:Does it feel better for you when we say this stuff? Is there a feeling in you listeners that's like oh, that's clean and tidy, that feels good, that feels right, if you're feeling any of that sort of stuff?
Speaker 1:good.
Speaker 1:That's a good thing I would also like to say that it's okay if that makes you nervous, because this might be very different from what you're doing now. It's okay to have the thought of like, but if I don't do this, what's going to? Will my business crash and burn, because it's the only thing I've ever known or the only thing I've been taught to do? The answer, that is no. There can be a better way. Taking it just a little tiny bit further and then we'll wrap it up.
Speaker 1:Is this continues to go all the way through, not just the pitch. If you're getting people on a sales call, if you're getting people. This is why the US consumer law is you can't tell someone no, you can't have a refund within a certain number of hours in the US, you have to provide. There are a lot of people who would say no, and no one's going to fight it, and how are people going to know and whatever. But this whole no, you cannot have a refund. It's consumer law. You've got to be able to give, especially on a knowledge-based product. You've got to give people I don't remember what the window is the opportunity to say I made a mistake. I don't want this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cooling off period.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cooling off period. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and thank you for that. And so, all the way through, you showed me the tea and consent video.
Speaker 2:I was going to use the yeah, I was going to reference that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And the whole idea. We're not going to If you don't know what the video we're talking about much as Google tea and consent, because it really is something it's worth it, it's worth it.
Speaker 2:But it's like, yeah, if they say they want tea and they don't want tea don't give them tea.
Speaker 1:Don't give them tea. Don't give them tea. And yes, tea is. Why can't I think of the word?
Speaker 2:The euphemism for Euphemism.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, metaphism, euphemism for sex, yeah, and it goes through a whole. If someone is unconscious, they probably don't want tea. There's all kinds of. If someone is going through your sales process and you are asking them okay, this is what's going to happen, is that cool with you? Yes, okay, tell me about what's going on in your business. Okay, let me repeat that back to you.
Speaker 1:What I'm hearing you say is this, this, this, does that? Am I getting this right? Make sure that I'm understanding this correctly. Yes, good, I'm going to move on. I would like to talk to you about blah, blah, blah. Is that cool? Yes, okay, I've got something that I think would work for you. Do you want to hear about it? Yes, do you want to hear the yes? Like you ask for consent and every said if you get all the way through and they're like yes, this sounds great, this sounds great, this sounds great. You get all the way to the end and they're like, yeah, I think that this is good. And then, all of a sudden, at any point, if it's at the end of the call, if it's after, they've said give me 24 hours, let me get my finances together, let me whatever, and they come back and all of a sudden they say no, that is not an invitation to push yourself into that situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not the wolf of all street. If they either buy or die, there's none of that. I really love that, because there's a few sales coaches that would absolutely disagree with what we've just said.
Speaker 1:Oh 100%.
Speaker 2:And I've seen one where it's like, yeah, hey, man, I'm really interested, I just need some time to think about it, is that okay? And then I watched this guy look at the camera's Instagram and be like, oh yeah, I got you, dude. And he's like, yeah. So hey, at the start of the call you said you were an action taker and you were serious and you've looked at my results and you've seen that I only work with action takers. So what you're actually doing now by me giving you time look at how angry Adrian's getting If you switch to the video version of these people, watch this.
Speaker 2:If you think back to the call and if you look at the results, you know that I get results and you know that I only work with action takers. And what does it say about me? And I'd actually be making my clients like I'd actually be lying to my clients if I didn't hold you accountable right now for this first thing that you're trying to not be accountable for. And so if I gave you the 24 hours, I'd actually like be going against my integrity. So I'm not going to do that. So you know, I would really want to challenge you to like just pull the trigger now, how does that sound? How does fuck you sound?
Speaker 1:It sounds incredibly, it sounds kind of violating. Actually is what it sounds like it is.
Speaker 2:Isn't it like it's a like it's a great and I'm a big fan of. I'm a big fan of if you're on your path to mastery scripting's okay If that's what you're being given as a sales group. From a sales coach. To me, even just like ad-libbing, that it felt like and I don't lean into feelings often, like I don't verbalize that I'm feeling something, but this brings out feelings for sure. Doing that it just did not feel comfortable at all.
Speaker 1:Doesn't feel comfortable at all. Well, I mean, take that and put it into any other situation. Let's just continuing the, the what we've been doing. Marketing is like dating. Selling is like sex. Great, like we can use that and it works every single time. You can have an analogy out of it is imagine she's standing in front of me and she says, yeah, like let's go home, let's we like we can go home, we can do whatever, and you're like ready to get into bed. And this is where this is the X rated podcast.
Speaker 1:And she's like hang on. Actually I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know if this is, I don't know if this is the right time. Imagine being like. You told me that you, like you, said we were going to sleep.
Speaker 2:You're an action taker.
Speaker 1:Please say that you said you were an action taker, like how sleazy is that? And I'm I'm sure people do.
Speaker 2:How illegal is it? If you, if, if, if? You then use manipulation to like reverse that scenario, like if you, if you, if you, you know you would start you'd start and be like hey, cool, no, no, no stress Whatever. And then off you go on your horse and click, click, click, click, click, click down the road, click, click, click, click, click. Go to bed somewhere else. You're not welcome.
Speaker 1:Go to bed somewhere else and it's like, hey, like, because hey in 24 hours.
Speaker 2:You might get a call and say hey, sorry. Sorry, sorry for the delay and I'd love to have dinner again. Let's, let's, let's try again. Same in the sales thing in 24 hours.
Speaker 1:And you are more likely to get that call. If you're like, I totally understand, cool yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I'm sorry, oh my gosh I cut the worst you've heard.
Speaker 2:Spot on, like it's. It's. It's spot on, it's like. I get it. I get the. I get the objection of. I need time to think about it. You're allowed to. You're allowed to qualify that objection to make sure. Hey, what is it? What is it, adrian, that you need to think about? Is it the, is it the product, or is it coming up with the, coming up with the cash? Okay, so you're happy. You're happy with the product. You don't have any more questions for me about the product. I get it. I would take some time as well. When would be a good time to reconnect?
Speaker 1:100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you're asking again. You're asking, you're saying I hear you, I get it, I'd be the same. When's a good time to connect? Yeah, hey, 20,. Give me 24 hours. Cool, Can we make it? Can we make a quick time? And I'll, I'll reach out to you. You know, tomorrow at noon, cool Chat to you there, man, see you. And that that's tasty, that's clean.
Speaker 1:Tasty, and you're still doing the right thing.
Speaker 2:Like you're still. You're still doing what you need to do, like you're still progressing the call. You're still progressing the sales process. You're just not ramming it down their throat and leaving cause post cognitive dissonance. Is the thing that will lead to the cooling off period, or the guarantee being evoked or being being used is you don't want regret to skip seep into the purchaser's mind minutes after you've, like, hardballed them into buying something from you. You'd rather them go to their partner instead of hiding it, the mistake that they've made. You'd rather them go there and go.
Speaker 2:I can't wait for you to meet this coach that we're going to work with. Yeah, yeah, like I've never felt so heard and so you know, so respected. You're going to really love this person too. And we've spent, like we've spent some money to go into the program. But I'm telling it like, instead of going, oh, hey, honey, I spent another 10 grand on coaching and stuff. You fucking did what? There's a last 10 grand, you motherfucker. Yeah, but he just told me that I was an. If I was just an action taker, I could. And I'm an action taker, honey. You told me I'm your action taker. I just did. I did it for you.
Speaker 1:Don't take off your action taker.
Speaker 2:That's Chris's life. That's what. That's what happens in Chris's life.
Speaker 1:I would also argue that's maybe not the most supportive partner. If that's, if that's the response you're getting, that was it's also. It's also not the best response, but yeah, it's. I could just keep to. I think that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's at every step of the way.
Speaker 1:It's such a perfect analogy because it, like it, helps you understand when you try to flip that situation into like imagine if you were on a date, imagine if you were what it's so clear that you would never engage in that type of behavior and you would never want someone to engage in that type of behavior with you. At the situation we're reversed. So why are you doing it to people on a sales? Because it is it's. You know, obviously it's a lot different to spend you know, to spend time with the human being than it is like you're buying money into a coaching program. It's not, it's not exact, it's not a perfect analogy, but it's still like there's a vulnerability to it. There is an intimacy to it that, like you're going to spend, if you're spending 10 grand with someone, like there's a good chance, you're going to spend a lot of time together and you want to make sure you're making a good decision.
Speaker 1:Not necessarily forever, but you want to make sure that, like for the time being, that you're making the right choice 100,000%, 100,000%, all right. I don't hear anyone else?
Speaker 2:I don't hear anyone else talking about respects.
Speaker 1:I don't either. Well, we had that moment. I don't remember it was on the podcast or while we were. We're recording a little product that we were doing, but I remember sent like. I remember having the thought of why have I never thought about doing my launch in such a way where my primary objective is respecting people's time? It's because I've never been taught that, I've never heard anybody. Why have I never been taught? I've taken a lot of different sales this and sales that and specifically around doing like online, but not never, not ever, yeah.
Speaker 2:And like the challenge culture is massive now because Brunson and his band of Kool-Aid Brigade are pushing challenges as the only thing you need in your thing. Chris is doing it, everyone's doing it. I signed up to a seven day challenge right, and there were a couple of things that were disrespectful, but there was one thing that I actually really appreciated, which was this person ran it live. He was very good at using the zoom poll function. He polled his live audience at every session. He did maybe like five or six polls. Hey, do you want me to go further into this? Yes or no? The yeses have it let's go.
Speaker 2:Do you want to know the noes don't. But on. So seven day challenge, so Monday through Sunday that's a lot.
Speaker 2:That's a Friday and then, hey, I'm going to run a poll. Do you want to run this on the weekend or do you? Do you rather me run it Monday, Tuesday, next week? Resounding yes to I want to run it next week. So he's put an announcement out to his credit. Put his announcement out. Hey, the people have spoken and they said the weekend's pretty intense. So what we're going to do is we're going to move the challenge. He has originally had the challenge seven days straight. We're going to move it to next week, monday, tuesday. Really, really well done, like I was, like well done, mate, really well done.
Speaker 2:What he didn't do well was it was a paid challenge. It was a paid challenge and there was no and it was in a top foreign like he was marketing to foreign time zones. So he was in, he was British standard time, australian times no good for British standard time ever. And then US clients as well and for seven like pay challenge, yep. The only way that you could get a replay was if you upgraded to his mythical, you know, 50 or $100 program and I messaged.
Speaker 2:I messaged him on day one and I'm like mate, there is no way that the time lords are going to let me stay up for this. So I need the replay for 24 hours and I think that's fair. I think it's fair that the replay is available for 24 hours, me keeping the replay for the rest of my life. Yes, I'm happy to pay more for that. Have a think and let me know, and he wasn't a fan of, wasn't a fan of entertaining too much of that and I'm like that, like that ruined.
Speaker 2:So you sort of appreciate that respect happens along the way so many times. So one little thing like adding, moving the days, massive points for you, but undone by like busting my like, not giving me a replay, so it's like not giving me choices to when I consume your content. I really wanted the content too, and it's like I don't want it enough. I don't want it enough because I don't trust you and I don't like you enough to pay $100 for the VIP package, but I'd probably buy what you're selling at the end of your challenge, dude, if you give me the replay for a period of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, I've seen people who are doing that and it apparently it works really well. But I think it's working really well for people who have very big audiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, if you're. If you're Grant Cardone I don't know if he's actually doing that Like, yeah, you probably can get away with telling people like you come live or you're going to have to pay for the replays, you're still just completely alienating a huge portion of your audience. But at that point you can. I don't know, you can handle doing it. Or you know, because you're such a name, like people, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a marketing exercise, right it's a marketing activity, so you're literally just, you're thought, you're literally robbing people of an opportunity to see your content and build no like trust, respect. Yeah, so at this stage, and you've sort of said how you're doing it and that's not, that's a story for another day in terms of how you're, how you're like creating and building challenges and the flows and what's included, what's not, and adding extra days as bonuses for people to buy if they want it, like that's really clever. So, yeah, there's, there's lots of ways and I think hopefully people are hearing that, yeah, the like respect can be gained and it can be lost just as quickly along the way. And it's important to maybe have a good look at your process and go where can I inject respect? Or have I ticked the respect box? Is respect here? And look at it in all all aspects of your messaging, your sales, your curriculum and your launch, like your launch vehicle. I think that's a really good way to do a little sense check and audit. So you.
Speaker 1:You really teed this up well. That number one we you're good with the T up is that number one. We'll talk next time about how to keep that respect. It's real easy to lose that respect. So we'll talk about not losing the respect but being actually being able to keep it. This is also a really good place to insert If you want to learn this on a much deeper level.
Speaker 1:We have a little secret project that that a lot, a much larger secret project than some of the other stuff we've alluded to that you can get on the waitlist for if you are, if the what, what we've been talking about this whole time, if you are someone who's who has been for the last couple year, two, three, how long couple of years chugging along. You've been making sales. You've been you know your course, your group coaching program. It's a higher ticket off. You've got at least one higher ticket offer. Your sales have either plateaued, they've started to decline, or it just doesn't feel good the way that you're selling anymore. And you want to do this better than sign up for the waitlist. There's no the obligation to anything, it's just.
Speaker 1:It's just signing your name to a list to say let me know when it's when it's ready and we'll give you a little bit of a discount if you want to join from the waitlist, and that's at servicedrivenscalingcom slash waitlist, that's it, that's it, that's it.
Speaker 2:Beautiful, there it is, teed up, teed up, set up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks, teed, in that right up. We need some, we need some, we need a theme song and maybe it's the RASPCT.
Speaker 2:It's just there. It's too easy.
Speaker 1:It's too easy.
Speaker 2:It's too easy. It's not Nickelback. Nickelback would be relevant. I could find a Nickelback song.
Speaker 1:I love that we said it the same time.
Speaker 2:I'm bringing it back. I keep, I keep telling people about that song and they still go. Man, that's a good song.
Speaker 1:Man, they were a good band. Whatever happened to them, I'm like yeah, that's it, that was not my reaction.
Speaker 2:Well, Australia is a little bit different.
Speaker 1:That's true. I'm going to turn this off. No-transcript.