If you've been fed a bunch of lies about course creation that go something like this - 'Oh! It's easy! Spin up a group coaching program, charge $5k a person, and then just show up once a week from the Bahamas and drink mojitos!' - and you're wondering why it's not exactly going that way for YOU...
Well.
With love in our hearts, we say this: if your clients/students/learners aren't achieving the outcomes you've promised them, you're probably not caring enough about their experience with your curriculum.
Quick overview of what we cover:
CHECK OUT STEVE + ADRIANE'S PROJECT:
LISTEN TO MORE EPISODES WITH STEVE:
RESOURCES:
CONNECT W/ STEVE:
If you've been fed a bunch of lies about course creation that go something like this - 'Oh! It's easy! Spin up a group coaching program, charge $5k a person, and then just show up once a week from the Bahamas and drink mojitos!' - and you're wondering why it's not exactly going that way for YOU...
Well.
With love in our hearts, we say this: if your clients/students/learners aren't achieving the outcomes you've promised them, you're probably not caring enough about their experience with your curriculum.
Quick overview of what we cover:
CHECK OUT STEVE + ADRIANE'S PROJECT:
LISTEN TO MORE EPISODES WITH STEVE:
RESOURCES:
CONNECT W/ STEVE:
You want to make sure that your curriculum is optimized for student support, student engagement and map to curriculum. There's some, there's some extra things to add into the mix. There you will be world class. World class, award winning education is available to everyone, if they just switch their view of what the course actually is. The course is the most important part. The curriculum is the most important part. You, you sign up to be an educator. This is the cost of education.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Soulpreneur's show, a podcast for a new generation of leaders, visionaries, disruptors and trailblazers who want to do business better. Our goal is to provide you with stories and insights into the strategy, systems and soul behind scaling, service driven impact. First, human centric businesses to help you create time, financial and lifestyle freedom. We want you to have a business that you not only love and pays you well, but that prioritizes what you want for your life, so that you can take actual unplugged vacations, you can step away from social media and you can spend your time doing things you love with the people you love. Let's get to it. Here we are back again.
Speaker 1:No, we're back, baby, we are back.
Speaker 2:We're starting with. Do we let people know what the actual circumstances of this recording are, Because I think they're amusing.
Speaker 1:This is how much we care about our people that are listening, and it is so. We have now split into alternate realities. I am now in the future. It is Sunday morning. At 7 27 am. Sunday, you are on Saturday evening, and so one of the most challenging time zones to get is East Eastern US time, est, and AEST Australian Eastern Standard Time. They are like they're hard. The Venn diagram does not have much of a middle section.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's not so because I work with a lot of people in this time zone. It's not so bad. You know, it's horrible with. My time zone is like Singapore. I've had clients in Singapore. That that's, that's rough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd imagine if you had a client in Western Australia which is three hours before, like three hours behind us then yeah, you would never catch up, that's basically Singapore time. Yeah, anyway, what are we talking? About today.
Speaker 2:What are we talking about today? We're continuing the no, like the KLTR, kl, it rolls on the tongue. It does, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:It does, well the most underrated, underutilized, are in the acronym world of servers based businesses. Respect.
Speaker 2:I would agree with that R.
Speaker 1:Once my eyes are open to it, I see it everywhere. Now it's like, it's like I don't know if anyone that's listening to this is sort of experienced this, but now that we've, now that we've told you this which I think I think to a degree respect has sort of been like this assumed thing, like people have just assumed that it's there but they haven't thought it needs to be its own consideration. It does, man, because I'm seeing so many things I've said, because I subscribe to offers, I jump on people's funnels, I look at people's things just to see what other people are doing. I think that's a good, a good, healthy way to do things. But then I then I see it I'm like oh, oh, that's not respectful, oh, that's left me feeling. And so now I'm connecting, like how I feel if someone doesn't do what I think they should do, or operating my best interest, I'm like now I know why I feel annoyed. It's the respect trigger it's been pulled. It's like no respect no suit for you.
Speaker 2:No suit for you. It's like therapy through. I didn't you say last time, you were like I'm not a very feeling, I don't. I don't do feelings, yeah, but, but I feel things through, I feel it yeah, yeah, I feel feeling. Who knew? Who knew Russell Brunson could be therapeutic in some way. Who knew?
Speaker 1:You know I tried to pay Russell Brunson expert secrets. Go and talk to your mate, Jim, and learn how to write a book, bro, Like at least Jim Edwards that book, because I read that cover to cover, man, I couldn't put it down.
Speaker 2:You were, you were in growth.
Speaker 1:I was actually really into it and it was because of his style of writing, because I picked up expert secrets thinking oh yeah, I'll go back into the brotherhood and pretend to drink the Kool-Aid, like you know on the Simpsons, where Homer wins the chili challenge by pouring a candle wax on his tongue so that he can then eat the hot chili and like win, that's what I would do. I would like go and like put put candle wax in my mouth so that when I drank the Kool-Aid it wouldn't affect me, just to see if anything had changed. But no, russell Brunson, you're a terrible author. Learn to write.
Speaker 2:I've never read any of his books, nor do I ever plan on it, so I'll take your work.
Speaker 1:Let me, I'll take that one for the team.
Speaker 2:You just read them all. Let me know how terrible they are.
Speaker 1:I will, I will. But yeah, respect is a respect, a big thing we've got to. This is part two, so we've got a few different areas to cover off today, don't we?
Speaker 2:We do, because we started with more of the sales and marketing side of things and we sort of want to. We're going to transition into the delivery side. We don't want to talk a little bit about when you lose the respect before you can get to the point of delivery and how that starts to affect, affect things. Yeah, there's a few. We both, we're both going. We're both going for it. Yes, we are. We experienced. We experienced this ourselves and we've talked about this with she, who shall not be named.
Speaker 1:Yes, Voldemort.
Speaker 2:Voldemort in the form of Christine.
Speaker 1:we called her Christine who appeared on a previous episode, but we're not here to. We're not here to get into Christine, we're just here to use an example that really, like, really pulled the respect trigger for us. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which was.
Speaker 1:Oh, so yeah, when you want to like disrespect people, get them to buy something off you week one and then in week two, be able to access the same thing for free.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a exact same thing, the exact same thing, that is pretty disrespectful.
Speaker 1:Disrespect. So at least, if you're gonna like hopefully you've got to hang out with us you figured out. Our direction is to not actually be one of these charlatans that like hides under your, your, your cape of destiny. What you want to do is at least tag your fricking audience man to not show them stuff. That is going to make the disrespect key. But I would argue that that is disrespectful in itself If you're even spending hours trying to hide your other business operations. Just be just be honest. And if I had a got an email from who's saying hey guys, listen, you know, I had really good success with this, at this, this product. I know you paid for it. I want to do like a free workshop with you just to thank you and just let you know that next week we're going to be offering Okay, cool, thanks for letting us know. And why? Hey, great way to give us a little bit of you know, recompense for our, for our efforts. Now, it wasn't a considerable amount of money, but it's the principle.
Speaker 2:That is. That is an acceptable way of going about. That would be a good solution. You could be her. You could be her fixer. She's not very open to it, as you know you're laughing because you know the history.
Speaker 1:It's not very open to or receptive to Steve Steve appearing in a box.
Speaker 2:That's remember when you were like oh you, you've invited me on all these podcast episodes all all the while you were just going to pitch me something so that, so that I could be the one to interview you, and then you're going to pitch me something at the end. You could, you could do the little reverse to her, the little bait and switch. You're like I'm getting on a discovery call with you and then I'm going to, I'm going to pitch you my services.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, yeah, hey, I think this would be good for you. What do you thought?
Speaker 2:You know when I do that. If you need someone, I'll do it.
Speaker 1:You know I'll do it. I'll report back. I'll report back. What are you noticing, Like? What are, what are some of the things you've seen this week that sort of holds your respect right now?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I think one of the big things that you need to be aware of is that your audience really pays attention to what you're doing, and that could be in that could be a little dissonant from other things that I've said around.
Speaker 2:Like people don't pay enough of it because it's not about them.
Speaker 2:Like when you're not making it about them, they're not paying attention.
Speaker 2:But people notice things, and when you do things that are incongruent and they start to pick up on it and it starts to put a bad taste in their mouth, you're going to lose a lot of. You're going to lose a lot of the juju that you had built with them. And you might not even be doing it on purpose, like, you might not even be realizing that it's happening. Because you know like I've gone through with with a client recently around the difficulty in selling something evergreen and then trying to live launch it essentially simultaneously, where someone knows that there's going to be availability for that product beyond what is happening in the live sales period, because they know they're going to be able to get it next week or the week after or the week after, for sure, next month, and at what point does that become like OK, well, it's just a. It's a sales mechanism, and at what point does it cause you to lose your audience? Does it cause you to your people are going to lose faith in you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, 100%, yeah, it's. You got to. You got to give your audience credit. Man Like that, they're thrifty. They're thrifty people regard like, fundamentally, humans are like a thrift seekers that they're going to look for. They're going to look for the way to pay the least amount, regardless of the value, right? So that's the thing. It's not that your values office, not that I don't want you, it's just that, hang on a sec. If I wait, it's even during like challenge conditioning, right, if I what I know, I know that if I wait until the week after the challenge and asked to buy it, I'll get it for the same. I'll get the same offer. Oh, this office closing on Friday at 12 o'clock bullshit. I call bullshit because I'll call you on Monday and you'll sell it to me, and when you sell it to me, you lose respect, like you lose respect. Same with same, with sort of oh, this program is limited to 10 people, and then I'll get in there and I'll count 11.
Speaker 1:I'll ask the question hey man, I thought it was 10. Oh yeah, this is my cousin's brother's former amount. Give me refund.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's stuff like that, yeah if it was preface, if someone said, like you know, I had a conversation with someone after the fact and I want to play an 11th person and like, if they addressed it, would that change things for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that. I think no one's. I think no one's willing to. I think no one's willing to address us because I don't think they appreciate the significance of the addressing. So, if and again, it's similar to sort of, if I, if I got emailed and said, hey, listen, I know you bought it last week for this I'm gonna, we've actually changed our strategy, so we're going. So it's like a public announcement. So if I'm part of a cohort, it'd be like hey, everyone, just a heads up, one team, one dream I've had it.
Speaker 1:Like someone called me and they, they, they wanted to get in and look, I've looked at the curriculum and I've worked out a way to make that happen. I'm just letting you know that, as a result of that, we're at 11, just to keep it transparent. And then, also as a result of that, I want to thank you for allowing the extra person in by doing XYZ. It doesn't have to be, you don't have to give away the farm, but just just giving that. Like, again, I talk about, I talked, spoke about feel last time. I talk about feel there, just saying that feels good, like it feels like I'm being an operating with integrity, like I go to bed at night going hey look, I got 11 people. I know I said 10, but I've let my whole cohort know and they've said they're aware of it. Beautiful, no surprises.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's. Have you seen the ads that are like I'm looking for X amount of people to do? They're really popular, they've gotten really popular and I just they're so fake. To me they ring so false because you know that they're. They're actually looking for unlimited people. They're just using it as a tool Using the scarcity rule.
Speaker 1:They're just, it's just an incorrect way of way of doing it. Now, sure, it might work one or two times, but when you roll that strategy out every month, hey, I'm looking for 10. Wait four weeks, looking for 10, looking for 10. You're always looking for 10.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 1:No, no good, so fair play to them, though right, just to round that out, fair play if you're having a crack, like, if you're having a crack, if you're seeing oh wow, I see that add a lot. I'm going to try that for my business. No problem, like at no point is any of this a problem. Like a you have a, you a terrible person, or you like Chris right, chris is unconscionable because it's Chris right. But if you're doing this stuff just because you don't know any different, hopefully what some of this is doing is just getting you to think about how your audience and it's a good practice to get in the sides, your skin of your audience and understand how they think. Hopefully it's just giving you a bit of insight as to what could be thought if you're using insert, the chosen thing, that's we've talked about today.
Speaker 2:And we've talked about scarcity before, I think I think publicly we've talked about scarcity and I think the key here is like there's nothing wrong with scarcity. False scarcity is where the issue starts to come in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:When you know that you're saying you know it's going to close at this time or I'm only going to take this many people, and then you know that that's not the case. False scarcity yeah, that's the difference. So then that rolls into assuming you are able to make the sale, then that puts you into fulfillment and delivery. Yeah, so there are three primary things that I was, that I was looking at, and the first of which being that you, in order to keep someone's respect because that's really where we're going with this is during the sales and marketing period you have to earn someone's respect during delivery. You got to keep it, so now do we keep that respect? First and foremost, delivering on outcomes promised, not to the few, but to the many beautiful.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Too many, yeah, too many. Too many practitioners, too many websites, too many programs have too few testimonials of successful clients you should have. You should have. You should be struggling to figure out which ones am I going to pick to put on my front end website to sell my program. And the reason that that is is because chances are only a few people have actually got results, like got the desired results, got the desired outcome, and there's a graveyard of people who, who didn't what do you, what do you make of?
Speaker 2:so someone had excellent intentions. Maybe they were. They were misguided, they were led down the road of if you want to, if you want to make money, you have to make a big promise. Because how many times have I heard that, as the person coaching the person and being in other programs, how many times I have heard, well, I was told that I needed to say that I can help you make 10 K months, or that that I can help you sign three to five clients a month, and it's not something really I've ever done, but I feel confident that I could help someone. But they were, you know, they were being told that's the way that I was taught. Yeah, the first thing that I was ever taught was as long as I felt confident that I could get that result for someone, and I was like now I'm out, I'm out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I paid a lot.
Speaker 2:I paid a lot of money for that particular program and stayed like two months and then I was like I don't, I don't like what's going on here. And so people who have gone down that road of like I've made these big promises and then on the other side of it, they're not actually getting that outcome for people, how do you start to look from a? Do you tweak the curriculum? Do you tweak the outcomes promised on the front end? How would you? How would you look at that?
Speaker 1:Straight, straight, straight away. You would. You would look at the curriculum for sure, and you would. You would see whether or not it's got the whether respectfully, whether it's got the balls to deliver on what you've promised, you've promised up front. So I look at that and you'd know. You know people, sorry, you do, deep down in your soul, you freaking know whether or not you can deliver on that. And you look at it. You're like I'm not sure, cool, change the front end, please change it. But just that's your quickest way, right?
Speaker 1:So, even though the curriculum is the thing that needs to change, the quickest way for you to recalibrate, if you look at your curriculum and go, oh, no way, change the front end and be real, like, be honest with what you, what you're going, I think I think people are surprised and they underestimate how small a transformation you need to make for people to deliver value.
Speaker 1:I think I think if people, if people understood that, if you just told me how to do like one step of the process and I got along the way and I actually was able to implement, I was able to consistently do it myself, I was able to fish for myself and stand on my own two feet at the program Success. I'm coming back and buying step two, but no one, no one wants to feel like they're just offering like part one of their program or a small piece, or oh, my program's only 10 minutes long, or my program's only two modules grows. You know, jimmy down the road has got a 400 module course that goes for four days. Yeah, no, it's actually that way. Like you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2:So how do you start to approach? Well, this is, I guess, what I want to, where I want to go with. This is we've started to talk about, because we have, like our four pillars that we are looking at with what we're doing, with service driven scaling. So, marketing, sales, curriculum, events yes, there is a lot of overlap. There's a lot of overlap between events and sales, because events are often sales events, but there's actually a lot of overlap with curriculum and marketing, because it I don't I don't know if you've ever heard this term or you ever use this term I call it a program promise or promise of, you know, promise of value in general. But that's, how do you start to not justify but start to negotiate, like, what are you actually promising, based on what the curriculum like? How do you?
Speaker 2:we've never talked about this how do you approach building?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, super, super fair. I got you. I know exactly what you're asking, which is, which is perfect, and I promised you that we would stitch this in, which is, you know, those four pillars are part of what the service driven scaling methodology is all about, which is not only helping people increase their bottom line and their revenue, but we're actually interested. I reckon we're the first and only place that's actually interested in helping show people, whatever program you offer, how you can increase your client results. Client results, folks. That's the kicker. And this stuff that we're talking about will. I know this hand on hand, on heart, regardless of, regardless of industry, regardless of your offer, if you apply some of this curriculum based stuff, you will get better results for your clients.
Speaker 1:So, your promise of value, promise of value, you could start with that first, right? So if you, if you wake up one morning and go, yeah, that's a great promise of value. 10, $10,000 months, awesome. But then, in order to realize the promise of value, what are the five to 10 learning outcomes, curriculum outcomes, that you need to make? That map to that promise of value? Dude, curriculum mapping, that's a real frickin thing. And this is another fundamental floor of the course creation industry is because the marketers have come in and gone. Oh, if I taught Jimmy how to do $10,000 a month, I'm going to now make a course. And now I'm a course consultant. And now fast forward 10 years and now all marketers started the course creation movement, the edge ofpreneur movement. So it's not, it's not your fault if you've got a course that you don't know, that curriculum design is actually a really complex and important thing. Here we are to help you. Brother Steve is here to help you. Folks to.
Speaker 2:Brother Steve.
Speaker 1:Doesn't that sound disgusting? It just even sounds disgusting. I'm here, folks, to help you.
Speaker 2:I'm not into it.
Speaker 1:What's promise of value for you, adrian? So when you, when you help people, come up with the promise of value, what are some of the ingredients that go into making the cake? That's the promise of value.
Speaker 2:You know it's usually not something that I like. I want to know, first and foremost, what's the solution Like. What are we actually doing? What problem are we actually solving? And that's what I find is, most people don't know how to articulate it in that way, because it's usually not just one problem. It's usually like a string of problems that you're going to be able to help someone with.
Speaker 2:And I think at this point in the game, being able to articulate the problem solution bridge is so much more powerful than saying, hey, I can give you 10 K months, because it highlights something that's more unique about the solution that you can actually provide. So when you go to actually articulate the promise of value or what your program promises, I like to look at it as you have a macro promise and then you have a bunch of micro promises, so you've got like the big dog of this is the thing that we're actually like, this is going to be the headline on your page, and then you know what are the other, the byproducts or what's going to happen along the way, or the secondary promises, depending on what you're selling it could be. You could think about it in a couple different ways. Are you asking me how you get there. Like, how do you figure that, what that?
Speaker 1:No, I'm just teasing it out because there's a step above, like you've just shown us that there's a step above the promise of value.
Speaker 1:I think the promise of value still exists.
Speaker 1:What I've heard from you is that you've said that you know the problem that you solve is actually the thing that's going to move the needle from a marketing and sales perspective is, if you can, if you can nail that, however, the materialization of the problem that you solve could be the promise of value.
Speaker 1:So it could be we're going to help like I'm sorry that it's so soft and miserable and it's early here we're going to help like fix your, like your coaching business sucks. Like we're going to make it better so that you don't feel like a washed up loser, like whatever that is as your, as your, problem that you're solving, the way that you're going to like measure that the problem is solved Maybe is your promise of value, which is you're going to see your coaching practice like increasing revenue to this much Then, from a curriculum perspective so you've got some other little micro bits that go into that, but then, from a curriculum perspective, we're going to look at what are the topics and modules and content that's required to be able to help them realize that promise of value which might be a improvement in their, in their coaching, which then ticks the. We've solved the problem that you know your coaching business is washed up and it's not anymore.
Speaker 1:So it's all it's beautifully interlinked. That's what I'm hearing, right.
Speaker 2:It is very interlinked. It's very interlinked. It's also I would go as far as to say that your promise of value is actually your offer. Like that is the offer and so if you're not getting that right, your offer is not going to sell. But then, if you can't deliver on what's promised like they are so interlinked. And we've talked about, like, when we actually go to do this, it's a chicken and the egg argument, because when we go to do this there, we're only going to be working with people who already have a curriculum. They already have a program. So when we go to look at this, it is. It's not cyclical. What's the way, what's the word that I'm looking for? When there is a chicken and the egg argument of like, how do we look at tightening the curriculum? But how do we also look at strengthening the promise of value that comes off of the back end of that? Like, how do we make them work in harmony with one another to support one another? Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's it and it's a constant the answer?
Speaker 1:the answer is you constantly have to ask yourself questions on both sides of the fence, right. So I'm going to tweak this. How does it impact my curriculum? You've always got to be jumping across the fence, right? It's like if you spend too much time tweaking your, tweaking your offer and making your promise of all that stuff, making that all super sexy, and then you just keep running the same program that you've run since day one, yeah, disconnect, right, you and for us, on our side, the curriculum side, we constantly have to ask.
Speaker 1:And so when I say curriculum mapping, I need and the first thing that I do with anyone that comes to us and that will hang out and want to talk about curriculum and how they can improve it, I will ask them to show me and justify every single piece of content in their program. Show me exactly how and where that content, that topic, matches and aligns with your promise of value or your offer. Show me like, actually show me. Or if you can't show me, teach me like teacher to me, because if it can't, it shouldn't be there. That's why the cost, that's why the cost industry is so inflated, that's why there's so many topics and so many hours of video when they could only like. There doesn't have to be, because people don't understand curriculum design.
Speaker 2:What about the other way around, like checking Does this actually need to be there, but checking that things that do need to be there actually exist?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the other. Yeah, so first point of call if we've got an existing course creator or existing program and it's not performing, that's my question. I'm going to be asking hey, show me, show me how all this maps to your front end what you're saying. You're going to deliver, but at the same time, yeah, if there's pieces missing, like I haven't actually learned, like I don't think you've actually taught me how to do bullet point two on your sales page, maybe you need to think about doing that. That's important too.
Speaker 2:Yes. Also, I have like five other questions in my head that are going from around this. So, first and foremost, how do you reckon reconciles the word I was looking for earlier. How do you reconcile someone Okay, so, man, I want to go in too many different directions with this someone whose curriculum might not get the full promised outcome until a couple months after it's finished, should that ever happen? Should that, how do you? How do you can? So I've got a measurement question. That's number one is how do you, how?
Speaker 1:do you?
Speaker 2:appropriately measure this beyond. I feel that this is what's happening. Second, how do you reconcile when when the outcome might be delivered slightly after the the actual interaction has finished? And then I'll hold on the rest.
Speaker 1:Cool Number one like number one. Show me number one, show me the topic that tells me that, as a learner, so there should be like a, that should be like an intro to the course, like hey, just letting you know this, this is your, this is like your Sam Sam Pit stage, and then you're going to graduate into the green zone or the training wheel stage, and the training will stage is where all of the rubber. We're going to hit the road, but in order to get there, you've got to do this. But your program has to have a continuity aspect to it. You have to show, you still have to show, and demonstrate to me, because I'm the ignorant third party. Right, if I'm not getting it, there's no way that your learners are getting it. I'd be asking to see hey, how are you connecting with that learner after the course is completed to make sure that they're actually applying the knowledge?
Speaker 1:Where are your workshops at week one, four, seven, nine, post session? Are you having other, any things that they have to submit to you? So this is the concept of assessment. Do they have to submit assessment or an assessment's a dirty word, right, but it's like, are they submitting any evidence that they're actually got a clue of what they're doing Because you think you're teaching it. But they may actually do like. It might be like hey, build your marketing plan, they build a marketing plan but it's actually like not, it's not a marketing plan at all. And if they get eight weeks down the track, 12 weeks, one year down the track, thinking that they've learned what you've taught them, then they go and try and apply the wrong thing. Brent, you could address that in week one by getting them to submit their work and having a look at it and giving them feedback for sure.
Speaker 2:Do you know? This just reminded me because you know I'm doing a like a marketing membership right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's quite a it's beefy. It's beefy, but it's not some. You shouldn't be going through every part of it, Like part of what we do in the beginning is it's like a sorting hat sort of a deal where, like, you need to choose where you're going to go with this. Do you know, I had a moment where and I still don't think that I have a decision on this where I'm considered not letting people pass go until they get to a certain point, and I was like I don't know, should I do that in a $7 thing?
Speaker 1:Pitchforks, yeah, but again, if the program, if the economics of the program is driving your decision as to whether or not you're going to sink or swim your learners like we've got a problem, dude, right. So it's like if that's the thing that's making you wonder like, should I, I, shouldn't I? It should be like what's in the best interests of the learner or your clients, getting the best value, and you'd know, as an expert, right, you can go and drown yourself in YouTube videos, on Facebook advertising and come up for air and be nowhere, but what it takes and this is why someone will pay you as an expert what it takes is someone to go hey, this is the way, come with me. Step one no, do not pass go. Step one no, you're not ready. Step one good, you've done. Step two nice. Step three they will, they will, they will hate you for it, but they will love and respect you for the rest of their lives. Once they get through the other end.
Speaker 1:If you've got the, if you've got the, the strength to and the and the, I guess, the copywriting and communication ability to articulate why you're doing that to them, cause I think the story, the point of the story, is I care about you more than how quickly you want to get through this and implemented into your business. That's the moral of the story. I care about you and I want you to succeed, but in order for me to make you succeed, I have to be the coach, and I have to. I have to stop you because you're not ready. You're paying me because you think I'm the expert.
Speaker 1:This is what an expert does. You are not ready, but if you're only one topic ahead, like Brunson tells you, you need to be in order to teach, how do you know whether or not they're actually able to deliver or have the competency or capability to move forward? You don't, which is why, then, I challenge the expert theory of brother Brunson. Where you need to be an expert, I think you need to be a legitimate, for real, like years of experience, sort of human. Yeah, nice, great.
Speaker 2:So the other thing that sort of came, came up for me there and then we can, then we can continue on is so one of the one of the things that I highly value, like I want people to continue with me for a long time?
Speaker 2:Yes, both, because, like I, like the people, like I'd like let's just keep, let's keep going. I don't want to necessarily like lose you from the, from the world, but also, you know, it's a, it's a business. I want to continue to make money and continue to be, continue to be able to help people. However, if someone says like no, I think that I, you know, I would prefer to go a different way, or like it wasn't a good, it wound up not being a good match, or they found something that's going to be more aligned to what they actually want, then by all means, please go do the thing that is going to be better for you. However, it's one thing to be able to deliver on the outcome that was promised in the short term, but for me, it's no good if they can't completely walk away from me and not continue to get the result without me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I think that's another big problem that happens in the course. World is cool. Short term, we figured it out. In long term, it's like they don't know what to do without you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like lifetime coach reliance, like you're reliant on the code.
Speaker 2:That sucks.
Speaker 1:That sucks, man. That's, that's, that's, that's no good at all. I think too. I think too, there's a, there's a, there's a potential like negative side of that right when, let's say, your program misses the mark, misses the mark and you don't deliver on the outcomes that the student wants, and they and you're, you're, they're going somewhere else and you get to have a chat to them. Imagine this you get to have a chat to someone before they jump ship. They haven't just sent you an email, you can save it and you can still leave a really, really good taste in that student's mouth if you have the data in to back up why that student may not have been successful.
Speaker 1:So if you've now, if you've mapped your curriculum correctly, then you know you know that topic, one topic, two maps to these things. So if they do this thing and apply it this way by submitting this assessment, then they can do that. What you're able to do is just be like hey, jimmy, I know you're leaving and you know I think that's fantastic. If you don't think that you're getting value from this, I just want to, before you go, I just want to, like, bring up your like student record that we've got on our platform and just highlight a couple of things to set you up for success with your new adventure that you're going on. So you know you mentioned in the feedback that you didn't get any outcomes from, you know, topic one. Well, I just want to let you know that you didn't actually do topic like. We didn't complete topic one and you didn't complete the assessment. Because if you did, we would have assessed, like your ability to do that and, as a result, you would have got feedback from me and we would have got you to a point where that would have been something that you'd know how to do.
Speaker 1:Similar for three, four, five, six, so you could find out that the data that you've got on your system is able to help support why Jimmy needs to actually do more work. It's actually the clients being difficult, not your reflection, and just even being able to have that conversation and it's not confrontational, it's just you're pointing out hey, here's the, here's the evidence of our platform. Like this is how you could have like achieved this. Just take it with you and know that for next time, make sure that you like you're doing as much of the work as you can to get the results, because we care about you, jimmy. Anyway, see you, mate, like, come back soon. If you need anything, I'm always here. It's powerful. It's powerful to be, and it puts you, it separates you a little bit further, and it's not about that, right, cause you want to be friends and you want to be on good terms, but it does elevate you too.
Speaker 1:I am at a level where, no, if you didn't get the results, let me check. First of all, let me check. You haven't done it, mate. You haven't even submitted the assessment. So how do you know that you can't do it? Do you want to have a try? Let's talk about giving you another. Let's extend you for another couple of weeks and see if you can get it done, and then let me, let me like, I'll reach out to you when you submit it. Cool, or you haven't done it? Oh yeah, I haven't done it. I was busy, cool, jimmy? Hey, no worries, but just just know that. It's not that you can't, just you can't say the program's broken if you haven't done the course. Is that fair? Hmm, cool, all the best, mate, see ya, like, it just puts you at another level, I feel.
Speaker 2:I feel that's pretty Well, because we've also talked about, like, how to make sure people are actually completing things. So could Jimmy flip that back around on you and be like you've just let me go for months and months?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Absolutely Right. So, Jimmy, you're absolutely, you're, absolutely right. That's really good feedback, Jimmy, Like I absolutely appreciate that. Yeah, We've, we've. You've just signed up and you've gone in. You've got no comms from us. No, nothing Terrible.
Speaker 1:That's not one of our clients, though, because even if you're doing an Evergreen self directed program, we would add automated email checkpoints each week minimum. We would. If they complete a topic, they would get an email to say congratulations on completing topic one. Hey, what did you think? If there's any like special Easter eggs, they get communication about that and guess what? It's all set up. Client doesn't have to do anything extra.
Speaker 1:But big one is hey, Jimmy, you haven't logged in for six weeks. Mate, Is everything all right? We will never get to six weeks. It'll be a week. Hey, Jimmy, this program is 12 weeks long. You haven't logged in for a whole week. Is everything okay? Don't hear from him. Text message, Don't hear from him. Pick up the phone.
Speaker 1:I would rather call Jimmy and have Jimmy tell me dude, I'm so busy, I made a mistake. Can I go and activate I need to activate the guarantee. Yeah, man, Absolutely, Jimmy will come back. Jimmy will actually come back. He'll be here for six weeks down the track ghosted by you, because you don't give a shit about him. Jimmy ain't coming back, Jimmy's going fishing somewhere else and there's no amount of data that you can show. Oh yeah, Jimmy, you didn't even log in, Bro. I've been here for six weeks, Steve, you haven't even. You haven't even talked to me once. I messaged you on Facebook six times I got. I got some random robot saying oh hey, thanks for thanks for your message, Jimmy. What's, what's the favorite thing about cost creation? One, two, three like come on, Come on. So yeah, that's a good, that's a really good point. So you want to make sure that your, you want to make sure that your curriculum is optimized for student support, student engagement and map to curriculum. There's some, there's some extra things to add into the mix there.
Speaker 2:Add into the mix.
Speaker 1:It's exhausting, isn't it? The whole it's exhausting, but if done well, no can defend. Thank you, mr Miyagi. Like you will be, you will be world class. World class, award winning. Education is available to everyone, if they just switch their view of what the course actually is. The course is the most important part. The curriculum is the most important part. You sign up to be an educator. This is the cost of education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the cost, and even if you want to coach, I think that's same deal with coaching, right?
Speaker 1:So we're talking about like horses, or?
Speaker 2:different sides same coin.
Speaker 1:Exactly the same. I'm a fan, but at the same time, adrienne, we're both fans of automation, because I believe that automation can be human-centered. You can use automation in a way that makes them feel and feel connected to you and give you, as the provider of the knowledge and the coaching bandwidth to be able to serve these people. So instead of yeah, instead of phone calls for every learner, you're just offering them a chance to jump on a Q&A each week, but you're then sending them an email automatically when they complete stuff or when they don't complete stuff, or when they don't log in for a particular period of time. That sort of stuff. Not taking extra time for you on a weekly basis, but impacting your learners in a really positive way.
Speaker 2:And now it's time for another. Get to Know Steve and Adrienne.
Speaker 1:So, hey, I want to get to know a bit more about this person that keeps hanging out with me on Zoom. It's strange to think we have a met in person, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:I tell you, I think more and more about that. We're doing something fairly significant, and I have no idea what it's like to be in the same room with you. It's a little odd.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it would be a little odd. That's how it would feel. I can spoiler alert you there. Hey, what's going to tell me all about who you are is your favorite cartoon growing up as a kid. What was? We'd have a Saturday morning cartoon. We'd have four schools. There'd be a cartoon show that our parents would just like shut up and watch the TV so we can get your lunch ready and get ready to go to. What was your jam? What was your top favorite cartoon show?
Speaker 2:My favorite cartoon growing up. I do know I don't even remember. I remember watching regular shows as a kid. Yeah, tell me, I'm from another country.
Speaker 1:Is that me? I'm from another country.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you, my favorite show as a kid was Full House, that was cool, those twins were there.
Speaker 1:Those twins were on it right, the Olsen twins.
Speaker 2:The Olsen twins, yeah.
Speaker 1:If you haven't got a cartoon, you can go like a sitcom or a family com or whatever you guys call that Full.
Speaker 2:House was cool, full House. What else did I watch? Definitely liked the what was the one with Urkel?
Speaker 1:You're talking about shows that aren't even in our country. They're not made in our country, but yeah, like Urkel the Family.
Speaker 2:Matters. Is that what it is? Family Matters, yeah.
Speaker 1:Fresh Prince, that's the same era.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're a bit more mature child. You're watching adults, you're watching reality, you're watching people on the screen. That's good.
Speaker 2:That was yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah Me, I was living in Fantasyland.
Speaker 2:With cartoons. Oh yeah, I feel like this is very representative of like it is actually who I am as an adult, because that just like continued on. I don't know. I've always been. I was always really serious as a kid and I hung out with adults like a lot more than I did with people my own age and I've got four siblings younger than me, but they didn't come around until I was already a teenager and some were like step siblings.
Speaker 2:So it was like it was just me and my grandparents all the time. So I watched a ton of Murder. She Wrote, and Perry Mason oh my God, perry Mason was great and Golden Girl. So I watched a lot of old people TV. What did you watch in Fantasyland?
Speaker 1:I hands down to my favorite television, my favorite cartoon of all time, dragon Ball Z. It's a Japanese anime cartoon and it is. I just think how many hours of my life have been wasted, but like willingly and voluntarily wasted, it is so good.
Speaker 2:Could you still like, as of today, if it were on TV?
Speaker 1:Dude, I watch it still this day, you still watch TVs.
Speaker 2:You still watch TVs. You still watch cartoons.
Speaker 1:Sure, if this cartoon is still going, it's like they still keep putting articles out, which is so funny because the whole premise of the cartoon is that these, these, these warriors that battle each other, and each time they battle and live like, their power level goes up. So these people's power level have been going. It started off with like, oh my God, his power level is like 1000. And he was like the best fighter in the universe. Now, the top power level the same character still alive. His power level is like 100 billion trillion. He just keeps getting like jacked up 100 billion.
Speaker 1:Dr Evil's style. Yeah, it was awesome. And the whole premise is like how you get pumped up, was you just scream? Like you just start screaming. So most of the show is like 10 minute sessions of this guy like screaming to like power himself up and then he like blasts energy in the face of some other dude. But I, you know as a young, as a young, as a young kid that then got into fitness and like the gym and like all that sort of stuff, it's a big no surprise that that cartoon is ringing in my ear. So give it a, give it a crack. The Japanese version is more violent than the American and the Australian like the dubbed version. So if you can go the OG with subtitles, you'll get more blood and gore. But yeah, it was every day before school.
Speaker 2:All right, let's get back to it. Okay, let's segue, because I was saying to the thing that my second point that I have on this list, but I've got everything that we're saying, like I just I have more and more questions about. Like I could just keep going and going.
Speaker 1:Well, what's great is I am now in a position where I can tell you that I have 16% battery left on my laptop and I don't know where my charger is, so that is going to be the need of the Mac as to whether or not Mac Daddy, but what I can do is I can also like parallel jump into that's my niece, by the way the Harps, the Harps, the superstar. I'll parallel jump into the zoom universe on my phone, should that happen. But yeah, continue, let's go.
Speaker 2:So anticipating in needs and obstacles throughout the curriculum. Another, another way to not just earn respect but keep it anticipating their needs. How do you, how do you feel about that one?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, how would you do that?
Speaker 1:You need to, so you need to have an ignorant third party consume your program before you launch it, or at least, or at least like, if you're going to go down and I'm a fan of build before like, sell before you build, right. So if you're going to pre sell something, you did it fantastically far out. You did it well with your, with your program. Do you mind if I mentioned how you, how you're rolling out your program?
Speaker 2:Go for it.
Speaker 1:I'll give you a little example, right, so you know that you want to offer this membership, this marketing membership, where you're teaching a whole bunch of stuff. You're not sure, you're not sure what content you want to throw into the cookie jar. So how you've marketed that is beautifully, in integrity, with respect, it's not built yet. But guess what if you join, if you join as like a founding member, I'm going to build it with you, like we're going to jump on zoom and you're going to watch. You're going to be like sitting with me as I build the entire content of this membership program. Guess what's going to happen there? You're going to get asked all the questions, all those, all those little gaps, all those little assumptions, all those areas they're going to ask you on the zoom. Hey, adrian, sorry, that doesn't make sense. Holy shit, that's gold, like. That is like the holy grail of being able to preempt and anticipate what questions or where people are going to stumble. Now, not everyone is as perfectly executed as the person sitting right here. And I'm pointing to if, in case of zoom doing things. I'm pointing at Adrian, if you don't, if you don't know, that is mad respect, dude. However, for the average mortal, the mere mortal who is trying to do this, or maybe you've got your program already. If you've got your program already, you have data available to you. Go and listen to the session that we did on data and it'll talk to you about what to look for as to hop on our program. If you're new like if you're thinking of starting a program or you're wanting to launch a program, or you've got a whole bunch of programs that just haven't been successful but you haven't got the data what you need to do is you need to take someone through it, either conceptually or through it because it's real and it exists. You can use a mirror board or a spreadsheet with all the topics and you just spend an hour on a zoom with someone going oh hey, this is what this topics about. What questions would you have? This is what this talks about. Does that sound simple or is like here's the template. What do you think you'd actually like, beta tested to a point where you're able to address all of those things? Now, hey, if you launch it and then you find, because you've now got data on your hands, because you're putting people through it, then you've got. I think it was this. The assumption is always going to be a risk. It's going to be 5050. Either is or it isn't right. You can stack the deck by asking more people and then getting like 10 people to tell you that topic one, part B, is the hop off point or the struggle point. That's more reliable than one person or it's even more reliable than your opinion. But the data then, with learners going through it, that's a chance for you to address it. And the way that you address it is hey everyone, hey cohort, and you'd even message like your a plus students, your nerds, hey everyone. I've just done a quick. I've done my weekly check in and this is again listen to this. It is a. It is all about how you tell the story that you give a shit about your learners to your entire learner group. Hey everyone. Steve here, I've just jumped into the system and done my weekly like data analysis and I've found something shock, horror. I don't know. I know how easy this is, but I forgot that. Maybe you don't. I've just noticed that.
Speaker 1:Topic two, section three People have finished that video. So what I'm doing? I'm doing a pop up masterclass next week 5pm and it'll be recorded. Can't wait to see you there because I want everyone to not get stuck on this because it's not as hard as you think. Latest love you like love, steve. That is true. Like I hate when I see love Steve. And it's not true. That is true. If you do that email, that love is real.
Speaker 2:You see, love, all right.
Speaker 1:Kisses, kisses, jimmy. It's like fuck off Jimmy, like I'm not in love with you.
Speaker 2:I saw my emails. Do you not like my emails?
Speaker 1:Yours are genuine mate. Like I feel the love, but I had a question for you. Have you ever been to a program that's done that, done what?
Speaker 2:you just said, like we're going to do a little pop up thing because it's not.
Speaker 1:I've done analysis. I've done analysis and found out, or I've been talking to people and found out. Has that happened on a regular for you?
Speaker 2:No, there's been one that is done this and it's. I know I have so much respect for this person. There's that word again. It's the. It's the person I learned launching from. Her name is Alex Beeden, and yeah, it was. She went through. I'm sure she she paid a pretty penny. I have an idea of what she paid to have learning designers go through and completely revamp her. She read it, not not just like, let me figure out how to tweak here and there, like I'm willing to go from scratch. How do we make this whole thing better? And you design it. I'll rerecord it because I want to make this, because she's got a big. She makes a big promise. She will help you have a six figure launch. That's what. That's what Alex does and she's careful about qualifying people. I've been on the other end of that and yeah, she really she. She puts her money where her mouth. I have a lot of respect for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just by like, I could just hear it, right. So how? Now? Folks listen, there's a testimonial for Alex, right, and it wasn't. It wasn't scripted, wasn't planned, but can you hear? Can you, when you have someone's respect, can you hear how they speak about you? So imagine, imagine, what are they saying about your programs and what are they saying hey, have you ever been, have you ever had your world rocked by an online course? Like you, I would see that question coming up heaps and I ask it a lot Like hey, what's been the best course you've ever done? And then wait, like wait. 20 minutes later, they're still singing your praises, mate. Like, is that you? That's a question that you need to think about. Are people answering that question with my program? Because if the answers no, it's in your control to fix it. You just need to hang out with cool cats like us who are making you aware of the challenges that exist. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's a fantastic question to ask is I haven't thought about that question in a long time is when you think about what you want to offer to people. Put yourself in a situation where how's the way that I normally ask this? Imagine there is a room full of 100 people and they're talking about you. What do you want them to be saying? And then how do you reverse engineer it?
Speaker 1:How do you reverse engineer it?
Speaker 2:Because I like to reverse engineer everything. Where are we going with this? Here's a question that sort of hits on. So we've talked about delivering on outcomes, promise to the many rather than the few, and anticipating needs and obstacles throughout. However, how do we start to look at that? When maybe you are looking at more of like a group coaching program and the outcome that you are offering is primarily done face to face, through coaching? How can you ensure that you have some type of touch points, that you have some type of direction that you're taking people through? Something Like how do you address when it's primarily being done not just live, but also through like a question, allowing other people to ask their own questions? Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:It's a lot to do with expectation setting at the start, I think. I think because the world is conditioned in a way that oh yeah, I'm going to join a group coaching program, I'm going to show up to these things, I'm going to do this. If I don't show up, they don't really care. That's just the way of the industry, that's the way of this bracket, because I can't afford one-on-one coaching with this person. That's just the cost of it, bullshit.
Speaker 2:I agree, it's a different.
Speaker 1:You've got to set the expectations at the start so you can say, listen, these are the calls, these are the calls. And like you say it like, yeah, you've got to do it because you do it right. But there's a lot of stuff out there where people just have learned oh yeah, I can just spin up a group coaching program, charge five grand a person and just show up once a week and sit on the Bahamas and drink mejitos. No, set the expectations up front. This is what's going to happen each week. At the end of each week, you can set an expectation that everyone needs to submit their journal to you or submit their feedback form or submit their temperature check. Temperature check is a cool buzzword, right? Just going to check the temperature here, guys. How are we feeling Cold? How are you feeling hot? And if everyone's like hot which is not good in my, that's in my definition Some people might go cold's better, but you might change your metrics on your scale, depending on.
Speaker 2:I use a red, yellow, green assessment.
Speaker 1:Red, yellow, green is another perfect example, right, but you would do that every chance. You bloody get right. If you're on Zoom, that's a poll that you have loaded up in Zoom. If you don't know how to use polls, you need to pimp your Zoom. So come and talk to us. We'll help you. We'll help you do that as well, but there's a button there that allows you to run a question to get real-time feedback from your learners.
Speaker 1:How are you all feeling? How was that topic for you? Red, yellow, green? Oh shit, it's all red. Why?
Speaker 1:Everyone unmute now Like stop, we're stopping, we can. None shall pass, you shall not pass, says Gandalf. Why, why, why was that difficult for you folks? What did you understand? Cool, fix it up. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. At the end of each week, send out a feedback, temperature check, ask how everyone's going. If you don't see someone at the program, reach out to them and get them. Either catch them up or have that conversation, which is not difficult, it's just a respectful conversation to have. You've missed two weeks, jimmy. I want you to start in the next cohort, but in the meantime, I'm going to jump in with you a few times in between the next couple of months before we run our next live cohort and just get you ready, because I just don't think you had some stuff happen. We just want you to be successful. And you're not going to be successful if I try and catch you up two weeks only to then see you miss another couple. Is that cool? Oh, wow, thanks, steve. Respect.
Speaker 2:You know I had one. I'm going to tell my own story here. So I delivered. I did a live training series this week. I don't, we didn't, we didn't talk about that in our catch up.
Speaker 1:That's a whole thing you sculled me hard for like having too many ideas and then you just go and do all the things. It's not fair.
Speaker 2:We've. We've talked about this, though, where I said I know what my audience is and is not going to, what they're what they're taken to. Also, it's not like I'm selling a gazillion different things. All right, Good, good, good call, though, anyhow. So I did this live, this live training which, by the way, also, I'm so mad that the only thing you've ever seen me train live was such a mess. Listen this. So this training was fantastic, but at the end of it there was an upsell. That was something that they actually paid for. That was a workshop, and it was on building and an organization chart and then starting to put a hiring strategy together.
Speaker 2:I have taught this in module form many times in different, in different places, and I've done this a lot directly face to face with someone.
Speaker 2:I've never run it as a workshop, and so it was planned. It was a four hour planned day, and I knew that we were going to take like a half an hour break, because I knew it was going to be meeting and we were going to need time to just like go walk away from it for a minute and then come back have some ideas, and as I got through this, I was like I underestimated what I needed to do here and I am not going to be able to give these people what I set Now. They paid like twenty five dollars to come to this and I would argue you got a lot of value from the other three days that were free, and so it's not like wow, they're really. But I was so in the moment I was like I started to stress out about it. I was like I did not estimate enough time and I'm not comfortable asking it Like can you guys stay an extra, because it was into the evening.
Speaker 2:For me it was really early in the morning. I have people there from Australia and so I was like what do I do? So I was like I want, I just want to ask how you would feel if we met again next week, If we just, if we just like what would make the most sense for you? Where are you at? Do you want to cover the strategy stuff next week, Do you want to cover? And someone said I have an idea Like why don't we? Because we have so many ideas on, like what we can actually do with the or chart. Let's save that for next week and go into that. And I was like are you OK with that? And they were all super happy with it.
Speaker 1:And then so a twenty five dollar product is like I'm going to you know, let's, let's just add another day, but you're not going to come back for hours and hours but here's that you, it's not just a twenty five dollar product, right, right, your reputation and it's how people it's whether or not people are going to have respect for you or not. So I would argue that it is much more valuable than twenty five dollars because ultimately, at the end of it like if they see that and they're like, wow, is that what I'm getting for twenty five bucks? Imagine what I'm going to get when I go into your programs, your labs and your incubators and your accelerators and all that sort of stuff. Amazing, I'm going to tell people, right, hey, I was on this, but where the, where your who peeps would go is they would go.
Speaker 1:Oh well, if you haven't like finished this, then that's, you're obviously not. The mercury must be in retrograde and you must have your soul, must not be in a position to accept abundance and like be real. So you need to go take a good hard, look at yourself in the mirror and not bother me with this miserable shit. And, by the way, buy my ten million dollar a year program. Just give me your pin number, that's fine, thanks.
Speaker 2:Did you do? You know, I was like I'm going to have to make a point to remember that it just came across that I realized that mercury did go into retrograde this week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got a text message. I get text messages from people who don't know that I hate that stuff. They're like hey, just FYI, it's actually happening this week. I'm like oh that's probably why. That's why I'm being such a menace. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you don't believe in it, but you believe that it's Look, I look, I believe I believe this stuff going on that I don't have control over, and that's enough, right, that's enough.
Speaker 1:I don't need to. I don't need to drink the Kool-Aid and then, like run around in a circle charging my crystals in the moonlight to to, to know that I know that some weird stuff's going on. It can't not be going on, but that's a story for a story for another day.
Speaker 2:That's a different story for a different day. Ok, so last last thing I have on this list is if you want to keep respect, don't just request feedback. So I think there are people who are asking for feedback. Yeah, you got to actually implement it. You got to actually take action, take action.
Speaker 1:Shock horror.
Speaker 2:Different kind of action taker.
Speaker 1:Shock, horror to think that you don't get it right every time, like if you're going, I mean my course is perfect, it's not man, it's not, it's not, it's so not. And if you're getting feedback for people saying, hey, I didn't get this topic, and then you're, you've got the audacity to be like, nah, I'm not going to listen to that, come on, that's good, that's a gift. Feedback Feedback about your program means that you've got people going through your program and in this world of you know, there's a, there's a world of like washed up wannabe course creators that have a course, they have a landing page for a course, they've had it for two or three years and they've had zero people. They've had zero people go through it but they've lost 50 grand to Amy Porterfield or Russell Brunson and got nothing to show for it. They would beg and like, what would they do to have a student that gives them feedback? That means that they've got some money, they've been paid. Oh yeah, can't believe it. Can't believe that people still don't actually implement feedback. But I guess that's a, that's a show of the times. But it's also like feedback Having your feedback mechanism, which is also, it's internal, external, all right.
Speaker 1:So you go out to the your students to get feedback. That's the external. You're going out into the external world, but then most people stop there. Oh, thanks for your feedback, jimmy. That was great, see you. But then you've got to actually have a system to bring it back internal into your business and then have a rhythm, because you can't know, it's fair, I'm not going to adjust my course just because Jimmy says topic two is hard. No, but you can start paying attention to topic two. That could be your internal system to say, hey, if anything gets called out as difficult, go and investigate it and then overlay it with the rest of the course data, because it may just be, jimmy, and that's an easy one to fix. Hey, jimmy, notice that your feedback was great. I had a look at it. Let me help you Like. I want to just do a quick, quick half an hour hour with you, is that OK? Oh, wow, thanks, steve, really appreciate that. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:The concept.
Speaker 1:Shocker, or you might recognize it. Might Jimmy's feedback might be the voice of the rest of the people who are too scared or not willing to provide that feedback. But with data you're able to go in and go.
Speaker 1:whoa, we've got a problem here and then you've got to decide from your internal operations when and what sort of cadence or frequency you're going to start to use the feedback mechanism as a way of rebuilding or fixing some of your maybe you're not fixing, maybe enhancing some of your program, and I think that usually works really well sort of alternate months, once a quarter, once every six months, but once you like. If you're going longer than a quarter without adjusting or looking like critically at your program, you're probably not caring enough about your learners or their experience. Things change, man, things change all the time and you might. And I think it's also like if you're doing, if you do, if you do any of the, if you do any of the front end work. So if we talk about so in our programs, we talk about, like messaging, sales and the launch at, like, the launch event.
Speaker 1:If you're doing regular launch events and you're talking about your content, chances are I don't know does this happen to you at all, adrian where, like you, you be in a workshop that you spin up and you're running a webinar or a masterclass and you just articulate one of your concepts in your course so good, and you're like I need to remember that, I need to use that in the course. Like you, just do it better because you're becoming guess what folks. You actually become more masterful the more time you spend practicing your craft, right? So shock horror. Imagine. Imagine that your content improves as you get better. Get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 2:What a thought. Who'd have done it?
Speaker 1:Who'd have done it. That's all that happens to me all the time, mate. Like I have it where I'm, like I'll stop mid-webinar. We're like, hey guys, sorry I've just got to do this. Hey, future, steve, grab this. This is important. That was awesome. Yeah and then I'll go and put it in my in my course.
Speaker 2:Well, I think the other thing that I'm you know, I started doing this Three-ish years ago where I started to talk properly about like business, how you can grow your own business, and it's interesting like we've already talked about, like I'm doing this marketing membership what's interesting to me is to build some of the modules.
Speaker 2:I've gone back and just directly copied and pasted the stuff that because the concept haven't changed, but I was like I did all this work, like I've got it somewhere and something that I've done somewhere, but I can go back and record it and say it in a quarter of the time or half At least, and it's so much punchier, like the Truly like some of it really was from two or three years ago, and I'm just like, well, that's I've had myself on the back because it's it is just snappy and it's it's good. Yeah, so much better than I could have done a few years ago, even though the, the content isn't different, it's just articulated in such a better way. Love that. What am I gonna be able to do in a couple years from now?
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly, I think. Is it this Japanese there's, so this there's? There's so many cool things that the Japanese do, right, they've got all these cool sayings, they got all these cool philosophies. They got all this, all this stuff going on, cool cartoons like Dragon Ball Z Everyone should check that out, right? So you've got the one that's popular at the moment is icky, is icky guy, right, which is the?
Speaker 1:you know you need to find something that you do that pays the bills, that lights your soul on fire. Doesn't let Mercury derail you. And like, let's you not drink the Kool-Aid from all of the charlatans out there, and that's like your life's purpose.
Speaker 2:But they've got some other one.
Speaker 1:They've got some other ones and I don't have the word, but it's on my list of like it's been on my list for months to go and remember to find this word, but it talks about. It talks about hey, when you're starting out, imitation is your first step towards mastery, right? So you imitate your, you imitate your coach, right? And that means that that's where you see people go Hi, here's my swipe, swipe swipe file or my template or whatever, use this, use my script. But then the next step is you know, from imitation you start to add your own flair to it. So then you're starting to take and evolve your, your script that you've got from your coach, into your own sort of thing. So that's the next step.
Speaker 1:Then the next step is you then make your own, you create your own, and I think it's sort of like I just I always got karate kid references, right when it's sort of like Miyagi would teach Daniel his Version of karate, miyagi do karate, and then they're in the karate kid three. He was like it's time for you to grow and evolve, to make your own style of karate, your own branch. So it's still grounded in this really solid foundation that you've learned from an expert or a master, but now, after years like it could be years after years You've now created your own version. That's been based on my foundation, but it's now yours. But that's really cool. I really like that, and I'll find that word out and I'll give it to you so that we can share it with.
Speaker 2:Share what the actual word is yeah like what was that?
Speaker 1:I just think it's cool. I think it's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like it. I like it. Yeah, okay, so we've gone through delivering on outcomes, promise to the many rather than the few, anticipating the needs and obstacles throughout your curriculum and Request feedback, but then also take action on it, implement it, update it based on people's needs. Would you add anything to this list before we wrap it up?
Speaker 1:There's so many things. There's so many things we could keep adding. There's so many things you've added to this list and let's just keep doing. Let's just keep. Let's just keep making the list, but for today, I think, I think we've there's some gold. Every, every time we chat, there's some gold. It's just more.
Speaker 1:It's just more making sure that the people that are consuming this content feel like it's not your fault, like if you're, if you're, if you're in a position where you You've you've recognized that some of this stuff you're not doing, do something about it, because if you don't do something about it, then it's your fault.
Speaker 1:But if you're just if you've just come off the back of a Course creation program or workshop or coaching program that's told you just to create stuff and let it run evergreen and not look at it Ever again and just pump adds into it, maybe now it's a chance for you to go. Huh, maybe what Steven, adrian, are talking about is a possible reason as to why it's not working, and the quickest way to do that that costs you zero dollars is log into your course creation platform, run a report and see what's that. Let the, let your people do the talking, because two things will happen, one you'll have no people into in your system to run a report on. There's your answer to you've got people in the system and they're not where they're supposed to be, or they're not doing it the way that you thought when you build the course. That's how someone would progress Easy, easy things to do. But yeah, you've just got to know that it's not your fault until you've heard this and choose not to do Anything about that's it.
Speaker 2:There it is.
Speaker 1:That's all I got. That's all I got.
Speaker 2:Steve. Out there, it is there. It is all right. So we'll pick this up next time, because we're gonna start talking about each of the individual.
Speaker 1:Oh, we got.
Speaker 2:We got buckets and pillars to tell we're gonna go into the buckets and pillars.
Speaker 1:Strap yourself in folks.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be big and it is an opportune moment to say if you heard all this stuff that we've been talking About throughout this episode and you're like, hmm, I would like to scale the results that I'm getting from my clients and Hopefully make more money in the in the in the process, if that is appealing to you and you want our help doing all of this stuff, then you should go into the show notes and go to the wait list and put yourself on it For the program. We don't know what we're calling it yet, but it is.
Speaker 1:Project.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bam.