Roster? Or Forster?

What if the solution to one overwhelming crush… is five?

In this episode, we play with the idea of spreading your attention so you don’t get stuck on one person.

We get into:

• The “five crush” mindset and why it’s tempting
• What it protects you from
• Where it starts to backfire
• How overthinking shows up when you have too many options

Just our take on what this looks like in real life.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This man comes up to you and he's like, You look kind of chubby today, and you get mad. Is that a deal breaker or not? Yes. So then why are you thinking about it? There's nothing to think about. You already know your deal breakers. And if it's not a deal breaker.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

I want him to keep me honest, and it's not a deal breaker.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Hello and welcome to the Overthinkers Guide. We are back. Finally, it's been a long time. Such a long time, but we're happy to be back. Um, we have taken a sabbatical to both find ourselves and then simultaneously lose ourselves. So um, yeah, now that we are we kind of broke even. Yeah, we broke even and we're like, you know what? We should do the Overthinkers guide again. So we're we're back, we're excited. Uh, this is the official episode one, and you're gonna go on this journey with us. We've decided that um we're looking at uh friendship and what our friendship is, and it would be such a beautiful experience to share what we've grown over the last 15 years. So yeah, so we'll we're revamping it in that way. It's a bit of the same, but a bit of new, but yeah. Um of course I'm here with Ron Lynn. Hi, I was waiting for my intro. Um so today uh we're gonna get right into it. This episode is about something that I saw. Now Ron's nervous because I didn't pre pre-talk to her about it, but don't worry. Just go, just find what's within. Okay. And what do I do with it once I find it? Let it out. Okay. Okay, so I saw this thing, and we kind of spoke about it before, so that's why I'm not too worried. We had kind of spoken about it before. I saw this video that said women should have at least five crushes at once so that they don't get too detached or too attached to someone. Um but the thing is like I don't know if it's like a smart choice to even any crushes. No, if the um method is a smart choice, like is it a good thing, or is it like more of this cultural avoidant pattern that people are doing? Do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Okay. You know what I'm saying? Okay, interesting. I see what you're saying. I I think my biggest problem is maybe the definition of crash is a little bit different, but like what do you mean? Like you have a crash. So this is a lot of PTs.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah, I was gonna say, so so when um when you are in like a talking stage with someone, the idea is that you don't fixate on this one person, instead you like think about like your celebrity crash. Okay, so all five of these clashes are celebrities. Not necessarily. Maybe you like think about like your this guy at work, yeah, the the guy at work, the mailman, um, and somebody else who you might be like really interesting. It it doesn't really matter, but the idea is that you're shifting your attention to five different people instead of putting everything on this one person. Okay, and so because as women, I think we've got a lot of attention to give. Yeah, we can multitask, we can think about a lot, we've got a lot of obsession to hand out. We need to kind of like split it over five in and so that one guy can get like this reasonable amount instead of even getting the five people's worth on him.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, okay. Okay, I can see that. I do I do agree that we are in a bit of like an avoidance um pandemic. Yeah. So I and and because of that, I can see why you're saying it might not be the best thing to do, but I'm almost like because of that, it might be the best thing to do. Because we're doubling down. I'm doubling down because you're doubling down. We're not the only ones the detached girl. Hold on now, let me explain. Because we're not the only ones in this detachment pen pandemic. So are the guys. Yes. So for us, going at them with this 100% attention, you're gonna scare them off, it's gonna be too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it might be better, more palatable for him and for us to kind of share our attention among a couple guys. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Would you would you do something like this? Would you incorporate it now that you're like?

unknown 4:20

I think.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Are you are you already doing it?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

And that's what I'm wondering. That's kind of what I'm wondering. Because you know, you got a couple people you check up on, you know, every now and then, you're like, oh, what's this person doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm wondering how much attention does one need to give for it to count as a crush.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Mm-hmm. Um do you like them?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

I I I don't know them personally. So you you're saying like a celebrity? I like they're not all famous, but I I've they I've seen them all on Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Okay. So like like like influencer, or like you're saying like Yes, kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

So I think YouTuber.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

I think the idea is that you like you full up the pining and the like for example, every time you think about your crush, theoretically you get this dopamine kick, right? And so you think about your brain gets this dopamine kick.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Well, for some, some of us get anxious, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

For those of us who can recognize that having someone is a safe space. Yes, you would normally get a dopamine. Normally, okay. You'd normally get a dopamine kick, and then your brain goes, Oh, that's nice. So you you think about them again, and then you try to message them, and then the dopamine can crease and then it becomes like you're just seeking this dopamine, like an addiction almost. But like if I go, Oh, let me rather think of my five other crashes instead of just getting that dopamine or that obsessive dopamine from this one.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

So the equivalent with like a famous person would be like to go and watch a movie that they in. Yeah. Or instantly, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Or watch an interview that they were in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And pine on them and think about them rather than filling your space with this guy because then he's just gonna become like this. Everything he's gonna become everything. Yeah. This is how I understand it. Maybe you might be listening and being like, uh, you guys are fucking wrong. So I don't know, but that's how I understood it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Which is all this is it, this is an interpretation. Yeah, we're not gonna be able to do it. Don't overthink it, like get out of our business. You know, what what do you think? Do you have five clashes at the moment?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

I I don't have five classes. Um I don't think so. I suppose if you're like looking for someone, I think it would be I think the best time to use this is if you're in the talking stages with people and you don't want to come across as like too up in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that would be the best place to use it. Um, but if I think back, yeah, like I used to do this. Like I'm not thinking about one person. I'm like, well, you know, if something happens, something happens, but I'm not gonna put all my attention on there. And also I have like possibly have ADHD, so my attention is generally split. So like I'm talking to someone, but then I'm also like, you know, not talking about them, but rather talking about someone else. So I like put the other person on the pedestal, but like I'm talking to this person. So that like I almost like like yeah, yeah, yeah, like nothing's happened. Like I'll not belittle him, but like you ain't all that. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not gonna give you all the power, I'm not gonna be like, and then he was immediately looked at me, and then I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna be like, oh, you know how Henry Campbell is hot and there's this guy I'm talking about, but I'm like, I'm thinking about Henry Campbell, and I you know, I'm just thinking about him. So you if you come up to me and you're like, hey girl, I'm not I didn't spend the whole day imagining.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Just thinking, yeah. And I think that that's it's interesting that the two of us would have this conversation, actually, because um, like you're saying, it's usually for people in talking stages, so it wouldn't really apply to you too much. And no, whereas it would apply to me, but I for me, I'm like, I need to learn to pay more attention to the guy I'm speaking to, not less attention.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Ah, I think.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

So if anything, I need to take away five. You know what? And I will I will counter that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

I will counter that with Use it as practice. No, I think that even if you were thinking about them and you're thinking about like uh in a l I don't want to say negative, but like if you're thinking about like, oh, I don't want to speak to them, I don't, you're still spending life.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I don't think about them. Until they like message me and like, hey, do you want to do something? Then I'm like, okay, yeah, let's do something. But I'm not like sitting there like, oh, I wonder what he's doing. Should I message? Should I not message? Is not messaging rude? I'm just like, I'm yeah now, and then if he messages, then I'll be like, okay, yeah, let's do something. But I find it very hard to think about them when they're not in front of me, which usually leads them to be like, you don't message me, you're not thinking about me. I'm like, yeah. But I don't see that as a bad thing necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

You know.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Um, Golden Fuck me. Maybe you need to like spin, yeah. Maybe use it as practice. Maybe pick five guys to pine with. Yeah, I need to, yeah. You need to you need to pine. You need to pine a little, girl. People, people pine out there. You gotta pine.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

I am, I'm a daydreamer.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yes. Which is why I imagine this is what I imagine goes on in your head. Like, so I imagine like you're talking to this guy, and then you stop talking to him because he's texting you too much. And then you go about your day, and then you're like, oh, I still have to message him. And then because you left a message on read. And then you're like, oh, I still have to message him. Oh, I don't wanna message him now because then I'm gonna have to have a conversation with him. And then you're like, no, you know what? Um, I'm first gonna do this, and then I'll get back to him later. And then you're doing the thing, and then you like in a moment, you're like, oh crap, I still need to message him. So, like, almost like in a like a negative way, but you like still think about like there's like an angst to it.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Okay, yes, that does happen, okay. So now I'm like, if you were thinking about different guys, you know, then I can get back to him, but then won't it just take longer for me to message you? Because now I've got five guys to think about before I think about him.

unknown 9:45

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

But you know, you know, you know where I think it could help. I I'm a I'm a daydreamer. But when I was in high school, I was the daydreamer.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Oh, okay. Well, what is it? I didn't know there was a title going in.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

I would do like a lot of like I would have a lot of like romantic daydreams. Where because I I used to consider myself a romantic, and I think the older I get, the more I'm like, maybe not so much in the traditional sense of romantic.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Maybe not so much in like the no, like if you think about it, like and also break down what romantic. Like if you're looking at the definition, then not really.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

But the way I think about it, yeah. So yeah, so when I was in high school, you you guys know Harry Styles, right? So I used to do the whole yes, I know fanfiction thing, what pad. And so when I would like go somewhere like Nando's, I'd be standing, because they like Nando's in the fanfiction. Okay. I'd be standing in Nando's, then the Nando's line, and then I would imagine that like I turn around and he's sitting at one of the tables, and then I'm like, oh my gosh, I try not to panic, but I'm cool in my daydream, right? And then um I like walk past to go to the bathroom or something, and then like I drop something, and I was like, Oh, oh, let me help you, and then oh my gosh, and this is what you like you you're just at home imagining this, or when you get in the room. And then I'm like, oh my gosh, and then I can turn it, and then obviously, like it's very disappointing when you just leave with your Nando's and nothing happens. But you know, or I'd be like, Can I take an order?

SPEAKER_02 11:17

You're like, um what do I want?

SPEAKER_00 11:20

That's what that's I want petty styles.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

If they are if there are any men listening, this is why women don't know what they want to order because they're using the line to think about other clay.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

It's just like, oh my god, wouldn't it be so nice if I just met the love of my life?

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Oh my god, and you're like with your boyfriend.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

If there was another guy that swept on my phone, would someone else pick it up? But yeah, and I used to do that a lot, but I don't do it as much as an adult. So it's the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

It's the opposite purpose.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Look, I think I think that what what works for our favor what works in our favor here is that let's say you're a girl.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Okay, I'll try to give me a second.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Yeah, imagine you're a girl and you have this issue where like you're looking for someone. Oh, ooh, idiot, think of a girl.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Think of myself as a girl.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

No, no, no, no, no. Think of a different girl.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Who's like struggling. Every boy she gets involved with, she's in love with. Okay. Gotcha. Now, that girl's gonna have some problems because every guy she falls in love with, she's all up in there, she starts fantasizing about, and then it just either it's too intense, or he gets cold feet, or like something gets weird quickly, or he's like, Oh, like this is not what I expect, whatever the reason it's just not sticking. And it could be that she's got all this energy for him and he's not ready. Because girls are tend to be a little bit more uh ready for commitment, a little bit more once you've picked, you've picked. Yeah, you're you're a little bit ready to get down in there and a little bit more um mature in that way, also. Like you, you know, you think of family, you're ready, you're you're you're ready to put down roots, you know. Some guys not so much. Now, thinking of her, thinking of her, right? Now, this would be advice for her. So, what I want to do is look at why this could work so that she can understand the matrix. Because we're sitting on the outside and we've tried it, we're in a long-term relationship, we don't care to do it, it doesn't work, you have the opposite, you know, you you don't have that problem. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, nice outside perspective. We won't get all washed away with the idea of it, you know. We're on the outside looking in. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Okay, I definitely can see how this could help the specific woman I'm thinking of. We could have had a guest on today's show. Um, I I can imagine. I think I think where I'm where I'm maybe uh missing a way, I have like a disconnect, right? Is how how will the dopamine rash? Because I'm assuming that the the rash that you get from like speaking to this talking stage person, the situationship with a near boyfriend person is when they respond to you. Right? So you message them and then they respond, you're like, oh my gosh, yay, I'm talking to him. So how does that translate to a celebrity? Because they're not responding. Don't you just feel dejected all the time?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Because now you're just like imagining this, like No, but you you get like like like on my feed, if I like if I'm thinking about cats right now and I'm l looking at a lot of cat videos, my feed will show me cat videos. If I'm thinking about gym and I looked at a germ video or I sent one to you, it'll start giving me germ videos. And every so now and then a a Henry Cavill video, like picture or something will pop up. And then if I do interact with it, a whole bunch of like, oh, you know, all those quirky memes and things will like pop up, and like, oh, if he shows up, I'll like they're like, oh, I don't cook, I don't clean, and then Henry Cavill is like in this hot thing, and then suddenly the girl's like, yeah, she cleaning, she cooking, you know. And already that's like a dopamine to see that, to like relate to that, to be like, oh yeah, me too. Like, that's dope, that's a dopamine kick, you know what I'm saying? Okay, I see what you want. So now I interact with like little things like that to get the dopamine from there instead of oh my god, is he messaging? Do I need to, you know, do am I must I check my phone? Am I thinking about him? Am I thinking about it? Will he message today? Am I gonna do I you play cool, you disconnect. And I think what might help with that disconnect is besides like seeming a little bit desperate, let's put it blunt, let's get in there. Besides seeming a bit desperate, it'll give you room to make a good decision. Yeah, you know, you're not if you're going to have space to see it for what it really is. Because maybe this guy isn't that great for you, but all you've done is think about whether he's going to message you or not, and it's convoluted now. It's all up in all you're thinking about is this message and the the is he thinking about me? Am I am I not good enough? Am I you you've created this bubble message him? Is that you've created this bubble of like obsession that's taking over what should be a nice peaceful experience of decision making, you know?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Okay, okay. I I I can see that now. I don't know if this is ruining it. Uh-huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Love this for me.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

I and I'm sorry if it is. If it is, I'll backtrack and we can we can find another. No, no, no. This is why we're but can't you do that with anything like hobbies, friends, like like I think because for me, I'm like, I get more of a dopamine hit from like building a puzzle.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yeah, but like but and so I'm thinking about the girl that you imagined, right?

unknown 16:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

She don't give a fuck about that puzzle girl.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

But but she's got her own version of a puzzle. So I'm like, won't you get more dopamine from a hobby or spending time with friends than you would from this fictional guy or this idea of this fictional guy?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

I don't know, like how fucking ovaries are just looking for specific. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Do you think that it's different? Do you think the type of dopamine you get from that is different?

SPEAKER_02 16:36

All girls talk about boys, you know? All girls talk about boys. I love talking about boys. We love talking about whether we like them or hate them, we love talking. It's just in our genetics. And this is one of those things that I think.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

So maybe that can be one of your hobbies. Talking about boys to your friends.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

But it's a different boy. Because you can't talk about the boy. Don't talk about the boy because otherwise you'll get obsessed. Okay. It's coming together. You see, it's coming together.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

So I'm not saying look, if I think that if you are somebody who can like uh split uh split your mentality and not like disengage for building a puzzle or going on a hike, then fair. Then I don't think you're this girl, also. I don't think you have that issue. Then you're a bit more in the detached, okay. Well, if he wants me, he wants me, if he doesn't he doesn't. But if you're not that girl, I don't think that's gonna do it for you. You're still gonna be thinking, am I gonna do that? And I also think, like you're saying, you know, that's a s I think that's a specific kind of feeling, like pining, like care, affection that you're gonna give. So like you sp you put other people's faces in there instead of this guy's face. So you don't put him on this high pedestal, you know? Yeah. And then overlook all of the red flags because you kept putting him on the pedestal.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Five is a lot though. Five is a lot. What would your five be?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

What would my five be? If I was talking to Logan and I needed five to like But you can pretend you're talking to someone else if you're once. No, it's gonna be weird because then Logan would be one of them, and then that would be confusing. And then yes, you're talking to Logan. I'm talking to Logan, and I need to pick five guys. Five okay, he's one of the five.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Well, no, he's the guy that you're talking to. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

No, he's supposed to be one of the five.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

So, oh, so are they saying five including the talking? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought they were saying five of the things.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

He's supposed to have like five clashes, like he's in there.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Okay, yeah, I guess he's a clash. Yeah, because you're talking to him. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

So uh Logan one, Henry Cavill two. Um tough. It's tough, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Like five is tough.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Tough. I don't know, somebody like like some like like if there was someone at my gym, you know, that was like fuller and with me.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

I'm asking who are your five right now? If you and Logan weren't dating with someone, you were just talking to him. Currently in your life, who's the five? My god. She's putting it on blast. Because I'm like, look, I I think there's this one guy that I keep I always check his Instagram. He's dating this Australian girl that I was first following her, and then I saw him in one of her stories, and I was like, that's the most beautiful man I have ever seen in my entire. I think I showed you a picture of him. Maybe once, yeah. He's also ironically hardy. I think I've got a thing for Hardies.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Um, yeah, you're very specific.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Very specific, but yeah, he's landscaping at the moment, very hot. Wow. He wears cowboy boots very hot. I love that. So yeah, I just have my two Hardies right now.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Yeah. Well, that's three. That's already three, plus the person. Yeah, it's tough. It is a lot of PD. But like, yeah, here's what I imagine, right? So I'm I'm the girl, so I'm talking to Logan. Right? So now, firstly, I've got my celebrity clash. Maybe you have another one, whatever. I don't know what you're into. Um, mine would be like Henry Cavill and then Adam Driver. Henry Cavill, Henry Cavill. Henry Cav. If I could Yeah, 100%. But it would be Henry Cavill and then Adam Driver, right? Then I'd just spend a little bit more time like filling my feed with that. And then there's like someone at gym that talks to me, but they like flirting. But I'm not like into them, but like I'll just be like, oh, you know, flirty bad.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Like a schoolgirl crush.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Yeah, yeah. And then I'll talk to that person. And then there might be like someone else who works at one of the shops I frequent, and he's cute, but like, you know, I don't really I don't know. We must spoke to him like twice, he's just kind of cute, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

See, that's a tough one for me. Real life crushes are a tough one for me.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

See, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Because I think I don't know if this is again delving off. This this is okay, I'm just gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Or like someone at work, you know? Like the problem, I think you're just you're just such a hopeless romantic. I am hopeless romantic. Yeah, hopeless.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Because I think that this is the thing with in-person crashes. What if the germ crush starts surpassing the other crush?

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Or why is that a bad thing?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Oh, because then it's complicated.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Well, that's what life is. Okay. Okay, if someone, if another horse takes the lead, you gotta ride it. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

You you just like to the main one gets like 40%, and then everyone else gets like Well, it depends if he's like, if he's giving back, you know?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Because I'm saying like you couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

You go to the stage to be on the list. To be the to be to be someone that you need to stuff yourself from, you have to like him enough. He's not gonna be like a two or a three. You're gonna like him at least as a thing.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

I think you're thinking about it as like like there's this guy now. Okay, I I'm talking to this guy. Now I suddenly have to like fill up the roster so I don't get it. I think you're like kind of, you should always be thinking about a bunch of guys so that no, it's not like so these other guys can filter into the number one spot. You know what I'm saying? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

So that's the idea that you're always like, I don't This is like the third time I've seen that I've gotten it. Maybe I don't, but I think this time I got it.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

I know. So it's not like uh you talk to this guy, you're like, okay, full the battle. There are six slots, I gotta go find someone. Okay. You're always thinking you're playing it cool, you're out there playing it cool, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Okay, that makes sense. sense. That leaves a bit more room for real life crushes. You know what I'm saying? Although I do think you don't want to be flirting with too many people in real life. That's why you put a few celeb crushes in I think if we had to do a ratio, I'd say you're allowed to have two real life crushes and then the other three they have to be celebrities. They have to be unattainable.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Otherwise it's gonna get messy.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Then it's just a roster. Yeah. Call it what it is.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

No no no but you're not a roster you have to be sleeping with well no you have to be sleeping with a roster.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

These people you're just like baby you know roster run up then they're on their way to roster city.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Isn't that what you want and somebody makes it through the gates and you like No Ember you want love.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Oh yeah sorry this is also a new theme now I'm the hopeless romantic of the show.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Oh I don't care anymore man I've got love you know what what else is there what else is there? What else is on no just kidding but else but um this this brings me to my second thing just give me a second the OTG okay so um this brings me to another thing so as uh we we're talking about like like you're saying it's too much it's too much so to contrast all of this I saw this other thing that spoke about um not having any crushes you said falling in love no no no falling in love right so you don't want to just have these dopamine these surface level crushes you want to find like something meaningful right and so while we're out there trying to detach at the same time um we are fighting like the overexposure of things like for example if I'm on my phone I'm getting a lot of dopamine so when I feel it with somebody it's almost like a diluted version that I can't like I I won't like back in the day there was nothing and somebody comes to talk to you and you feel like your heart beat a butterfly and you're like oh my god my heart never feels this way and it's almost easy to identify that this person is somebody you really like. But now my heart's beating every five fucking seconds so I don't even know. And so now like we're saying women are going out there and saying like you need to like split your attention because you have all of this attention it's just to to contrast it it could be damaging as well.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yes I agree with that I agree with that. I do I and I think yeah I think not not even so much with the dopamine I think oh my god I literally just as I was speaking forgot what I was gonna say that is the most frustrating thing that can happen okay I'm just gonna repeat the sentence and hopefully what was I saying what was my sentence I don't know man I I think you got excited about the dopamine Do you want me to take and then you might just yeah maybe something you know you're just gonna keep going yeah okay so what was I saying?

SPEAKER_02 24:50

And that's the episode No no no I was saying that uh yeah to contrast it you know you this is the problem with the internet let's be honest that you get advice like add so many clashes and then also but we can't fall in love because we don't understand dopamine.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yes oh oh okay I'm gonna keep going because it's like feels I feel like I'm on a knife's edge I'm on a knife's edge um but but yeah nothing okay okay I I think what what I was gonna say is I think apart from the dopamine thing people are so scared of like getting hurt or getting heartbroken that they'll safeguard themselves against it so they'll do things like put put the attention somewhere else so that they don't feel too strongly about someone because if it doesn't work out then they're scared of the feeling that will come with it. But I think as someone that's never experienced it that heartbreak is important. I do I I think I think that you can't how will anything ever feel real if you keep like you're saying diluting it with everything you know like hey girl are you preaching and one hopes that you look in the mirror and you say this isn't about me okay this is about y'all okay okay yeah yeah I I agree yeah I hundred percent agree that it's it's there's also a part of this um this distancing that everyone's doing because everyone it it kind of seems like everyone's either in a constant situation ship or people are meeting and getting married and there's no in-between anymore like there's no like oh we've been dating for three years or you know I've known this person we were friends and then we started dating.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

This is the paradox of choice we have so much choice we have too many choices we have five crushes lined up we have a roster going we have dopamine hitting our brains all the time it's it's difficult to navigate actually feeling something sincere and genuine and I think like of late I've been asking a lot of people if they're single or not you know just whoever I get into and a lot of people are single but no one can find someone. Yes and I'm so confused but everyone's but everyone and so that that confuses me so much because to me I'm like there are so many options. Just get together get together guys link up.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

There's like a lot of you still making pairs you know I saw a video of my person who's in a relationship and they were like I don't understand like you're single and you're single just be together and now no one will be single I still like okay gotta put all that so but I think that's the thing for listen to me single people okay listen to me I'm gonna say something unpopular opinion trigger warning trigger warning you sure?

SPEAKER_02 27:31

I'm 100% sure it is that simple it is that simple it is that simple what you need to do is you gotta pick someone you vaguely like somebody that gives you butterflies. Somebody okay hold I'm gonna stop you no no you like let me finish no let me finish you vaguely like you get butterflies right it's I mean like uh oh yeah I like them I like I like them and then you talk yourself out of it but then you're like no no no I do like them this like when you touches your hand you feel something and like you know don't pull their face she's pulling a face she's pulling a face because you're saying like oh like you vaguely like and butterflies butterflies are five steps ahead of vaguely liking someone that's not the same thing you're telling me somebody like flirts with you you don't get butterflies no I get anxious at all I don't want them to look at my face yeah but but you get butterflies no you have to somebody like butterflies happens with like I think there has to be a you're outing yourself Yogir no one's gonna agree look I think I think there are other anxious people out there who are also looking for love and they will agree with me.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

I think I think at at least for the first three times when I really like someone there are no butterflies. All it is is like I'm swallowing like razor blades. I just feel like my body's been torn up on the inside there's nothing sweet there's nothing fluttery about it. I feel like I'm gonna die. Okay well when the butterflies come and then exactly and then afterwards you get so comfortable you get a little bit more comfortable with them and you don't feel like they're gonna kill you and then you can start feeling butterflies.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Okay that that guy that guy right so you find that guy and then you go okay I'm going to try yeah I'm going to try with this guy and then when they do something like that's off putting you don't go wait you don't when they do something off putting or like they upset you you don't go is this the person? Yes no no I'm agreeing with you because you don't say that this is a big problem you you don't say is this the person you say okay can I make this work yes then you fight through this the deal breaker. No no no don't even ask no no don't ask them you allowed the deal breaker you are but you already know the if you're sitting there asking is this a deal breaker then you have a boundary issue you should already know your deal breakers you you're you're you're analyzing the thing that just happened to that's the problem right there analyzer the analyzer this man comes up to you and he's like you look kind of chubby today and you get mad is that a deal breaker or not yes so then why are you thinking about it? Oh I see why there's nothing to think about you already know your deal breakers and if it's not a deal breaker.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

But then you already know but maybe I have to evaluate that because hold on now hold on now I'll I will do I will rebut I will rebut by saying that I do think you need to consider if something is a deal breaker because right now sitting here I've got like my list of five deal breakers five imagine like 20 deal breakers I have an exam pad from top to bottom no pages missing girls got only deal breakers on there so you've got your list of deal breakers and then as someone who is particularly picky I'm starting to learn that I have to be less picky. I'm different this season guys I'm a different person you'll start realizing yeah I I have to be less picky. I know that about myself you can hear it in a voice she's like you know what it's just my voice literally cracked but I do think that now when someone approaches me I think I have to re-evaluate that and say is this a deal breaker for me? Because does it still stand or like you're saying is this something that I can work around or is this something that is bringing up something new for me? I think you always have to consider because they will always change as you change.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

I I hear what you're saying and and the reason why I have the opinion that I have is because in my scenario I'm like I make those choices alone not when someone offends me. Not just affects you. Yeah yeah yeah like like for example if if I um if you show up late to fetch me on our way out to a night out I already had like if someone is late is that a deal breaker for me I've already sat with that I don't wait until someone does it for me and then decide if it's a deal breaker. Usually I have these things like I don't like when people do this I don't like when people do that I don't like because it's happened to me before you know so I'm saying like when you say this term deal breaker I think about things that you've already made a choice on. Okay like a little bit more strict because I think for me I'm more like if if like if someone Because you're you're saying now that you have this long list of deal breakers that you're already preset and what you're making the choice before someone comes into your life you're saying you need to knock a few off. Now what I'm saying is don't wait until someone does it to you to knock a few off.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

I know I think I think the reason I would maybe consider waiting to meet someone because I agree with you I should probably knock some off privately on my own first. But I think that it's it's nice to consider that person in it because like you're saying with the time thing for sure I can be someone who I'm like yeah I don't like when people are late but maybe um something about this person they're late but every time they show up they bring me flowers and that makes me feel better about it. Now I'm a bit lenient. That's not a deal breaker anymore. It irritates me but I'm willing to have a conversation about it. It's not a deal breaker. And so I think maybe that the way someone approaches your deal breakers could change your mind on that.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Think about a deal breaker.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Abuse a deal breaker but that's what I'm saying I'm talking about the extreme mergence.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

I'm doing like something I think we're getting hung up on the term deal breaker on how deal breaker you're saying that if this person does it it already breaks you don't make you don't shift boundaries for things that you don't like. Like what? Give me an example give me like a light example that things that you don't like like if someone's late like you you're somebody who doesn't like tardy people right? I don't mind them. Okay no I'm not okay okay what is something you don't like um this person oh this person has an like a very weird sense of fashion but not cool weird it just doesn't work with he wears like shorts like cargo shorts uh he dresses like a dad but like a not like a like That's okay like I've said as long as I have a strong sense of fashion it's not strong he changes all the time it's not even strong he wears high socks and he dresses like that guy we saw on Tinder that JC matched with oh yeah that's his outfits all the time it's just different colours of it yeah that's how yeah so he's committing but like only to this one thing. Okay. But he's a nice guy.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Okay. Yeah no then then I then I would consider the kind of person but is fashion a deal breaker to you?

SPEAKER_02 33:39

No. Exactly yeah so that so that wouldn't be a deal breaker and that's what I'm saying I'm so sorry I'm saying that things like that those things that you dislike those are things that you like play around with you see you know but I'm saying deal breakers are things like if somebody had a wet mouth oh god it's wet and it's every time he talks it has the strings oh no the white and and then it also has like the strings no that's too much exact and that's a deal breaker I just don't think I could kiss you.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Exactly because it's a deal breaker. You could love him as a friend.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

It's a deal breaker it's a deal breaker. You're not gonna sit at a home breaker you know what I'm saying you're not gonna sit at home and go can I kiss it? Can I push I love that man do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Probably not yeah I see intense road rage intense road rage is a deal breaker for you I know this episode isn't about deal breakers but yeah I I recently realize this about myself intense road rage? Yeah because it makes me angry yeah because that makes me anxious and I don't think I could be with in a car with someone that keeps doing that and then carries on like they're not just like swearing people I don't think I have a lot of deal breakers. No you're pretty chilled yeah but kind of like two two ends of the coin I think but that's what I'm saying rude.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 34:56

I think I think that if you're an impolite rude person then I know but I but I consider you someone that takes the person into account which is why I'm saying like I think that it does matter. I think I was a little bit more strict about having the list.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

What were we saying? We've deviated a bit um that deal oh it's that easy so so I was saying it's that easy right yes it's that easy so I'm not talking about the deal breakers the deal breakers are things that you have in your that you're not willing to give and maybe there's a man out there that makes you give on one or two of it I'm not gonna you know maybe wet mouth is not so bad. Don't check your head I will I will give on the don't age before I give on the wet mouth genuinely shout all you want as long as your mouth is dry I actually swab my mouth every time Roland comes over just in case.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

And I appreciate that's why we've been staying for so long but yeah though I'm not talking about like deal breakers like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

I'm talking about inconveniences or like things that you don't particularly like that you maybe you're just like oh it's annoyance or like you don't you know I'm not talking about those little things deal breakers you you know already you know so if you find something that's a bit of an annoyance like for example when you communicate with him he shuts down now that's not say he doesn't use emojis but okay like maybe maybe he shuts out like like he doesn't say anything. Like you know when that's a big one that it's tough. That's a tough one but it's not a deal breaker because you think maybe this person can they're just struggling to do there's a block. And then you're willing to push through a bit so push through these things until you can't push through anymore. Okay actually stop like fucking stop thinking from the moment it happens your automatic the moment they do that people start questioning are they right for me? Well no what the fuck did you expect somebody to be perfect? Like no I think a lot of people do. But that's because they and it's it's irrational and you're you're being told to like love five people and you're being told to like oh swipe this there's so many like contradicting information like take a walk take a walk think about you stay off your phone for a little bit and then talk to this person. Yeah you know have a genuine unplugged conversation with this person and imagine that there's no fucking other person in the back pocket waiting for you to just go don't play it like a game and don't try to distract yourself or try to do something else to try to see if you will stay engaged.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

That's good advice I I do agree with that I I I I see what you're saying about having your strict your line where your deal breakers begin until the end of infinity and then having the little annoyances that you might be able to give on.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

And I've been guilty of this before you you meet like three annoyances and you're like oh I can't live with this forever these annoyances are gonna keep popping up but that's irrational because I'm sure that they find things about you that are a little bit like off and even people you think are in communication you know even people you think are doing really well like a couple that's been together really well they've got a shit ton of annoyances I mean what couple it's literally like she went softer when she said that because Logan's dying these are a lot of fucking annoyances no but they are they are like every coup I mean it it's it's a running bit it's a running but in comedy husband and wife they fight they go they go they go on they go the thing that it keeps me and Logan going every time we fight is because I'm like you're not going anywhere. You're not going anywhere I'm not going anywhere so we got we're gonna buckle down for this fight.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

And I think that that that is the kind of mentality I think that mentality is a lot harder to uh come by and accomplish than I think you think I think you were you were born with it maybe it's Beverly maybe she's born with it you were a little bit more fortunate for that to come more naturally for you but I think like you're saying in this swiping culture and this fast-paced dating world I think it's a lot harder to be like you're not going anywhere because they kind of are they kind of always five other options you know what I'm saying they're kind of always on the move and you have to catch up so I think you're hard and then I go back to what you said you have to have the heartbreak because you know what that person's doing they are you being scared that you're going to leave so what do you need to do? So everyone's doing the same thing exactly so what do you need to do? Someone needs to be brave enough to show them a safe space and I just think that that part I think that that's where everyone's getting caught up because they keep waiting for someone else to show them you know because everybody doesn't want to be hurt which I get look at the end of the day yours yours I'm not against the five people thing I'm not against it.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

I think that if you're somebody who finds that you get a bit over involved or over obsessive like you're not necessarily um like outwardly obsessive and then it chases them away you just find like it's very exhausting for you to fixate on this person and like it's a lot. I would suggest you know having the five people having the five people relax bro like you have options. But when you find that this person is somebody you're considering you need to at some point make the choice to okay I'm gonna I'm gonna take the chance on this person and I'm going to go full Monty so I think it's it's not so much do it or don't it it's about do you know when to stop doing it and can you stop doing it.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

You know what the five the five people the oh I'm gonna keep these five people in my mind oh this person didn't work out oh he said that you know I think it's like uh like uh you you you get too confused that you that that's the end goal to keep having crushes on five people I'm gonna go back on my on what I said I I disagree with it a little bit I think the more that you were speaking now the more I'm like I think I think you're right I think it's it's playing a part in the distraction in you and you as you were speaking you were like oh uh chill out you've got other options and I think that right there is the problem that everyone always feels like they can turn around and they have this line of people waiting for them but you don't know where the end of your line is and this sounds sad but one day you're gonna turn around and the line is gonna be gone. There will be no line and you have sifted through everyone in your life because you were waiting for the right person, waiting for the perfect match waiting for that crash that gave you the perfect amount of butterflies and I think I think it's a bad idea. I think focus your attention on the one person and I think that if I think if you find that it's difficult or exhausting to put all of your attention on them I think that maybe that's something to speak about with either like a friend or if you're close enough with this person and the and the clash and you can be like you know what I think that um speaking all the time is making me feel a little exhausted. Maybe we should just talk like once a week or let's just talk when we go out or I think you can find the boundary with them instead of isolating yourself and finding a boundary on your own is what I'm all trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

You know no I you're yours I don't think you shouldn't be talking to three people at the same time wait wait wait wait let me let me break down the timeline I think that that so I'm saying like today you wake up right you go into Tinder you swipe swipe swipe so I don't understand we're back at the beginning okay carry on title this Ronlin doesn't understand don't this way so we you're swiping you swipe on this guy he's cute it's you know you swiped on him he messages you message you're like okay he's a nice guy he says hey let's phone I'm better over a phone call you're like okay that's nice I like phone calls he phones you have a nice conversation uh just an hour long nice conversation he's the one that says anyway it's late I've got work tomorrow let's chat again we can maybe set a coffee date you're like okay so that's the crash so so now now you're like oh my god that's nice you have this crash right now not you a diffident girl with the emotions of uh I don't want to say normal girl girl of a non-avoidant girl would be like oh my god this guy is like he's amazing he's so amazing so now that girl needs to chill she needs to play it a little bit more cool than I'm ready to marry you right so I agree I think girl needs to she needs to reel in the girlness yes the girly obsessionness of like oh my god he's having my babies you know and so instead of making those jokes and spending the night thinking about him she's gotta go okay I am going to keep going on Tinder I'm gonna keep swiping on Tinder and it's more just like okay just you lost me wait wait wait yeah he's just swiping on Tinder okay not anybody that you like you're like okay and you go to sleep you didn't spend the night thinking about him. Okay then the next morning you're at work and then this guy that speaks to you at work you're like oh you're gonna be playful and flirty with him I figured it out okay keep going okay playful and flirty with him and you're like oh okay and then that guy messages later on and you get the message you're like oh when do you want to do coffee and you're like oh whenever uh and then he says okay let's get coffee then and you go you go to coffee it's amazing he's the best guy he talks so it's just fucking amazing. He drops you off at home. Now again you gotta be a little relaxed. You gotta let all of this energy but you don't want to delete him and spend the night thinking about every conversation you said and how you did. You need to detach a little bit okay you need to detach a little bit okay so what do you do is the next you go swiping on Tinder or you chat to a friend or you go swiping on Instagram you're like oh my god you watch a rom com that takes your focus Off of just obsessing on this moment, you know? And then I think at some point, Logan's gonna hurt me. I just bang the table. I'm so sorry, Logan. Um, and then at some point, you're gonna go, okay, this guy's really nice. Okay. Okay, I've got a bottle with it. Okay, this guy's really nice. I wanna go all in. And at that point, then you sw you stop.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Now you're focused. Okay, now now this is what I'm gonna say. I I figured it out.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

She gets it focused.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

I know what's driving me the wrong way about this. It's the tension.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Can I guess? Yeah. Or you think that I need you so much. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Okay. It's the focus on men. Now it's basically what I said. No, hold on. It's exactly what I said. I think there's a problem in trying to use other men to distract you from a man. Now, hold on, hold on. Let me I let you speak. Let me speak. Okay. I'm allowed to like have emotions while you're speaking. I think I think that the it leads back to what we were saying before about allowing yourself to feel that giddiness. And this is why I disagree with it. Because you should, if if you are the type of girl that does tend to like, it's all you're thinking about. I think that there are other outlets. Like I said, phone your friend. Have a little kiki. Oh my god, the date was so fun. Let your energy out there. I don't think you have to think about another man to let that energy out. I think that that's where I'm finding the difference. I think that there are other ways because I think you should feel giddy. You should feel excited and you shouldn't feel ashamed of that. You shouldn't feel the need to hide that or push that down. I think society has made us feel like we have to stifle our feelings because oh, it's too much, it's too much too soon. Why? You have a crush on them, light them, feel giddy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Apparently, if you want to quit cigarettes, the worst thing you can do cold turkey is you you know, is say, I'm gonna stop doing that thing. Okay, so what you need to do is find your trigger and then put something else there. So for example, every time I drive, I light a cigarette. So when I get into the car, I want a cigarette. Instead of saying no, I'm not gonna have a cigarette. I need to drink from my water bottle until I'm so full that it's or eat a sweet. So I put the trigger, still get something. Yes. And so now it's fine. So I'm saying that that's how I see it.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

And that's your trigger is like, oh, I'm thinking about a guy, so put another guy in there. Hold on, hold on. Now now I'll use your same analogy, right? So I get into the car, right? And I'm like, oh, um, I want to light a cigarette, but I can't light a cigarette. So I will smoke a vape that has nicotine. That's you're you're substituting it with the same thing. You substitute it with a guy. No, but if hold on, hold on, hold on. But if you do the sweet, that's the equivalent of using something else. No, which is not a guy, like speaking to a friend or going on a walk or going to the gym or doing something active. That's substituting it for something that's completely different to the thing you're trying to avoid, which is like the sweet. Whereas if you substitute it with another guy, it's just the same version of it's a different version of the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

So you're here's what I'm saying. Like if you let's say I put broccoli in your car, right? And you get into the car, and you're like, oh, I I have the trigger and I eat bro broccoli, you're gonna hate the broccoli. It's not gonna feel like it, there was no dopamine that it was given to you. You're not gonna suddenly love broccoli.

unknown 47:14

What if I eat it broccoli?

SPEAKER_01 47:16

If you want to quit cigarettes and getting into the car is your trigger.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yes. And you leave broccoli in the car. Okay, no. Okay? So so you so you get into the car and you're like, oh, I'm gonna eat. Whoa, wait, what am I like? So you get in the car, you eat the broccoli, and you're like, it's not hidden the spot. So I'm saying it's gotta be something that's that gives you dopamine.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

And I agree. Okay, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

And so, like you said, the vape, I'm not saying he's the vape, I'm saying he's the sugar. No, no, I he's addictive and sweet and but he's not to me, it's not the vape thing, it's the sugar thing. No, no, no. The same sayings on the sugar.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

I agree, and let me explain why. Because he's still a guy who you have a crush on, right? So, so in essence, it's the same version but less of it, which is why I said a vape. It has less nicotine than a cigarette, which is not exactly the same thing, but it's kind of the same thing because it's still a guy you have a crush on.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

I quit cigarettes, like, I quit cigarettes.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Cold Turkey, now let me teach you how. Because you would that's not your life was another how. So now the broccoli thing, I agree with you. Don't put something in there that you hate. Something else that gives you dopamine. That's why I said talking to a friend, going on a junk. Something else you enjoy. A hobby that you enjoy. I'm not saying a negative experience.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

You're still gonna get dopamine.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

I agree, agree coming from somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

I agree that if you're somebody who can substitute.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

No, I'm saying I'm saying everyone can. I'm saying everyone can.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

I don't, I don't think. Think about the girl you were thinking about. That girl can.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

She can't. She can, she's just she's choosing not to. Because she because she can't, because she's addicted. Because she's addicted. Should she? Should she push through? Yes. I believe people can overcome addictions. And the first stage, the second stage, the first stage is admitting you have an addiction. The second stage, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

She's not there, girl. She's not there. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

But I think that if I I agree, I'm not saying that it should be something that you dislike. I think it should be. No, no, no. I'm I just think it shouldn't be another man, is all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Which is which is fine. I don't mind it being another man because I don't think that it's it's not dangerous to dangerous. It's not dangerous, and I think that's the difference here. I think to me, I'm like, I think women are allowed to love other things other than that.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Yes, I'm saying that if one of the things is something else, that's great. That's great. So so you're saying in my crash list, I can have two guys and like three activities. For sure. That's not what the video was though.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

That wasn't the argument. That's not the argument, and I'm I'm saying I agree that if you can swap it out with those things, then do it.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

I'm saying that screw the if you can. You can. If you want to, you can. I think that that's I think we need to stop allowing for the fact that we can't. We can. You know what I'm saying? I agree.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

I agree. Don't look at me like I'm chase. I agree. You know what's happening here? We're we're we're doing it. We're doing it. You know what you should do, Dollage? Not overthink it. Just don't overthink it.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

What are we even talking about? Don't overthink it.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Look, yeah, that's our advice, man. Do you know? Just hopefully you're out there, you're loving someone, and they're loving you. Yeah, that's all you can hope for in this life. And uh, yeah, and and don't don't overthink it. Don't overthink it.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

The O teacher.