The B word

Boundaries. We said it. 😅

Why is it that we know we need them, we know we deserve them, and yet actually setting one feels like the hardest thing in the world? Especially for us girls.

In this episode, Ronlyn and I are getting into all of it — what boundaries actually are, why they’re so tough for women to implement, and how to set them well. Or at least as well as two overthinkers possibly can. 🫶

The guilt. The people pleasing. The “am I being too much?” spiral.
Yeah. We’re going there.

🎙️ No perfect answers. Just honest conversation and maybe a little push you didn’t know you needed.

Transcript

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Is it healthy to say boundaries via action and not communicated? Probably not. That person might be in a little bit of a pickle if they don't catch up on it, you know. That's true, but but I think some of them are easier than others. Like a physical, like touch on it, okay, murder. That's just that's a different conversation. Hello and welcome to the Overthinkers Guide. I'm back. And I'm back. Hello. Yeah, I'm not gonna say our name because if you don't know them by now, god damn it. Start at the beginning. No, I'm just kidding. In case this is for some reason the one that stood out and it's your first time listening, I'm Amber. And this is No, no, I'll do it. Okay. Okay, no, go ahead. And this is Ron. As you can see, we're organized, tactful, to the point, and very organized. We really plan that intro. Um, today we are going to look into something a bit more serious. Um, something that Ron and I have absolutely no clue about. About, yeah. But we thought we would come in. We literally had to Google a definition before this. We'd be like, maybe we should just double check. But I do think it's a it's a it's an issue that most people feel that way about. So I thought that is the dilatability there. So let's let's talk about boundaries. So when I looked up like boundaries and things, first thing I was noticing is like, shit, I have no idea. Like really what that's about, you know. Like I understand the concept, for sure. We all understand the concept, but like in practice, what is it? Do I am I good at it? How do I tell if I'm good at it? You know, like it's it's such a nuanced, difficult thing to put your finger on. And I realized why women might, but not all, might have a particular difficulty with this topic because uh you could be the boundary bitch. Oh, like the the strict boundary bee? No, like you're like because you have boundaries, you become a bitch. Like it's easy. You're supposed to be inviting and open and soft and feminine. So by having boundaries, warm and yeah, by having boundaries, you like, okay, calm down, you know, like relax. Like that's not necessary. Like, you know, we're all friends, you're like children. Okay, I see. You know what I'm saying? And so we're a little bit afraid to be that girl because otherwise, you know, it's uh you you are perceived as a bitch. It's cold, it's cold, yeah. Distant. Yeah, and so maybe you're sitting at home thinking, mmm, mmm. This one's for you, girl. Um yeah, so so we're gonna we're gonna talk we're gonna talk about that. Ronald, my question to you Do you think I'm a boundary bee? No. Um what boundaries do you feel you are good at setting? Ooh. I don't think I'm bad at setting boundaries. Yeah. I okay, hold on. Hence my question. Okay, maybe some ones you're sure of. Um, that's a tough. I think it's hard. Okay, maybe this is an answer to your question. I think it's hard to set to to communicate boundaries, but to personally set them in your head is a little bit easier. But not I mean, I suppose when we talk about setting boundaries, we assume that there is a verbal communication of setting. And uh But then again, one could set boundaries with action, like you know, yeah, like is it healthy to set boundaries via action and not communicate it? Probably not. That person might be in a little bit of a pickle if they don't catch up on it, you know. That's true, but but I think some of them are easier than others, like a physical, like touch boundary, okay. Murder. That's just that's a different conversation. I have a strict no murder boundary. That's a good boundary to have. I think we should all be able to do that. And I think everybody's getting the vibe. I don't have to say it. I don't have to say that okay, but less intensely, like a physical touch boundary. Like if you're not a huggy person and you don't go in to hug someone when you're leaving all the time, or if someone comes to sit next to you and they touch your arm and you scoot a little bit. I think by doing those small things, you're setting a physical boundary without having to say, hey, I'm not like a huggy, touchy person. But the problem is that that person now might perceive you as disgusted. Well, you don't have to do it in a disgusted way. I think there's a polite. I think generally if I scoot and someone scoots, I'm like, okay, do I stink. We scoot. But I like I mean, like if you're just touching arms, not like if you're like just near them. That's a crush. But I but I think that a lot of people, because of how I am, have given me like people are very adverse adverse adverse to how I react about physical contact, like the fact that I don't like hugs. Like my mother never hugged me as a kid. I'm sorry. I don't that I don't subscribe to hugs, like I don't do that. I don't, we we were in a very physical contact type of family, and I never thought it was a problem. There were other ways that we should communicate it. Like you might be don't say shame. Don't you say shame? Say same. No, I meant like that. Because people often, when I say that, they're like, oh shame. And I know, yeah, don't don't you go down. I think people are like, I never got any kind of love or attention. That's shame. Like when you're like, oh, but you play alone a lot, then then I'm like shame. You do say it. I did used to play alone a lot. But I was fine. I'm used to playing every toy. Oh, I was fine. I had every single toy. Okay. Name a toy from back then. Baby born, whatever. Yes. She always I had a baby. I had the Princess Frisbee, the dress comes. Dude, I had it all, I had a ice cream birthday cake that I hated. I also had one, but I had mine on my crown birthday. Mine was a Barbie doll. Yeah. Her whole dress was ice cream birthday cake. Yeah. Yeah. And I fucking hated it. It's like, who, who, who did this? Who did this? That was for me. That was my birthday cake. The universe got it switched up. That was meant to be. Whoops. Um, but yeah, so so I didn't mind that it was uh I played alone a lot. I had quite a lot of toys. I did have people. Just want to say that. Like I did have cousins and friends. Yes, you were around a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also around a lot of older people. Yeah, I was, yeah. But anyway, but uh what were we saying? Boundaries. Um Yeah, we I the hugging, yes, the physical boundary. So like I work with a lot of female colleagues. The majority of them are female colleagues, and they're very um feminine. And they like much like females usually are. Not always. And they are very feminine in their demeanor and like affection. They're very like nurturing. And so they're affectionate, and so they like hugs and like you know, arm touches and like they'll say I love you easily, which I am that's I'm not that type of person. So people she's really not, I'm not. I don't say I really really not. She never does it. What's up with you? Why are you doing that? Never. I don't because I'm not, but it doesn't mean I like the way I view showing my affection and care is just definitely. But I've gotten the response. Like, you know, the way you're responding now, like people assume, like, oh, people who don't know me as well as you do assume that I don't like them or I don't know. Because you're not responding in the same way. Exactly. And so yeah, I I think that just the shift away could give an implied something that's not, and so you to verbally set the boundary or explain. Well, well, then I think that brings up another question then. Because for me, I I didn't mean so much like an acquaintance. Like if if like with the Well, they're not acquaintances, they I would consider them friends. Yeah, yeah. So for me, I was talking about like with an acquaintance, like when you don't know the person well enough to be like, hey, these you know, but I think with them you know them so well that having that conversation isn't weird or out of place. So we're gonna be able to do it. Because I feel like if you just meet someone and this is like the third time you meet them, I think it's a little weird to say, oh, personally, like I I would appreciate if you didn't sit so close to me, or you know, like whatever the scene is. Because it would be weird if you set a boundary with an Uber driver that showed up late and like I don't like late people. Like who gives a shit? Like easily just never gonna see. You know, give them a bad day to even move on. Yeah. No, for sure. I I do think, well, in our context, then let me specify we want to look at boundaries with close people. I'm talking about people in your life relationship friendships, you know. Well you see often. Yeah, people in the inner circle, you know, the C suite of your life, you know. The C suite? Yeah. Have you never heard that? The C U I T suite or S-W-E-E-T suite? No, S-U-I-T suite. Okay. Like the C. Like the U C class friends. No, no, no. The C Like for a company with a C suite, right? The C F O the C E O. Oh, okay. Oh, I see. Okay, like the board of directors. You know the C suite of them all. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. I see sweet what you're saying. Beautiful. And she means SW. I saw this cute thing on Instagram yesterday with this girl. She turned 22 and then she had a sweet 16 times two party. So it was like a sweet 16 theme, where it was like she turned what? 32. Okay, yes. So on the cake it said 16 times two, and it was like a sweet 16 theme. But it was so cute. That's nice. So sweet. It's a little sad. It was a little sad. But it was cute. It seemed like a celebration of like she's still young and youthful type. I saw I saw a video of a girl with you just see the birthday cake. It's like somebody behind the camera is holding the birthday cake, and she's the one. Oh yeah, and then they change the number. Yeah, and it's a one. And then she's like, oh, she's gonna, she's 19, she's gonna blow the candle. The person switches out the one for the two. And then she starts running. That's that's more realistic. It's less sweet. More sad. I do, I do like the the Sweet 16, because when we grew up, we were watching Sweet 16. And we couldn't have those parties, and now you can you can get a little closer to one idea of a Sweet 16 party. 90% sure, 10% it may have been clickbait that Henry Cavill's wife had a she was on an episode of Sweet 16. Yeah, and I'm like, she has everything. She has everything together. She might have tested it. You know what I mean? She was the best, and she said she needed the best of the best, and she got it. You know? Anyway. That should teach us something, ladies. Yeah. Yeah. Shoot for the stars, and you might land on Henry Cavill. No, that he is the star. There's another what land on you might land on, like, I don't know. He's too perfect. It's intimidating. I could never, I would feel so bad about myself all the time. I feel like I'm too stupid, I'm too ugly, I'm too bad. No woman that's with him is the settler. You know, like it's just it's too much to put in. I would not feel like a good person. I I wouldn't want to like marry him. Yeah. It's intimidating. I don't think I'd want to marry him, but I definitely want him as like a situation. I definitely want him. Like a situation ship. I don't know. That man's situationship in it. No, he just I think if he was if he seemed like more of a douche, I'd be like, yeah, let's situation. That's what I'm saying. But it just he seems too sweet and wholesome and too hot. Like it's too much, dude. Like, but that's what I'm saying. Because if I'm like, does he even like me? And like I know deep down, no, because he's not, it's not, he's a situation ship. It's not like it's not a thing, you know? And so I compine and like, yeah, and be like, he doesn't, because he's he's in his place, he's out of my reach, where he's supposed to be. But I get to I get to dance near the street. I don't know what that says about me that I can't do out of my reach. I just I would feel too bad all the time. I mean, I think I think a lot of people make the choice, they either want to be the teacher or the settler in a relationship. A little bit more actively than I think that they think they do. Yeah, I think you either want to be the teacher or the settler, that's who you pursue. Some people like to be with some people reach for the stars and some people like why you keep saying that stupid. I think some people want to be the teacher, and some people are like, nah, I want to be reached for. Yeah. Reach to me. Stretch. Stretch. Hold out your arms, Uppie. No, not upie. It's something else. What do you think you want to be? Um well, judging by the Henry Cavill um situation, I think definitely I'd like to be the settler, yeah. Yeah, I I think I like being the settler. I think Logan would say he's the reacher. I think Do you think he wants to be the reacher? Yes. I think he's 14 years in, he's kind of making it to his benefits. No, no, I think he is that type of person. Like he's he's looking at somebody in awe and he's fine to be in awe of someone, you know. I'm like intimidating, do you think? Yeah, exactly. I don't mean awe of you, like that's the thing, maybe that that's what I'm saying. Maybe that says something about our confidence. Because as much as he's like, oh he he I can imagine, I don't mean to speak for you looks, but like I can imagine even though he's like, oh, he doesn't mind like reaching and pining for that person, he's also okay to be comfortable and like feel like himself in front of you. You know, like 'cause like you're like, I want to come home and be a potato. He comes home and he's a potato and he can still pine after you. Like, you know, I think you know, like my confidence wouldn't allow me to feel like a potato in front of someone. This is gonna solicit an unnecessary R, I think. Oh yeah. Um he says, like, even now you'll be like nervous around me, you know? Yeah, I knew it, I knew it. Oh I knew it. But but I'm like, imagine how exhausting that must be. I'm like 14 years deep, this but I'm still getting nervous. Maybe it makes him feel more energized than like. Yeah, and that's why I was like, I can't imagine it. But and that's why I think he's definitely somebody who wants to be in that position because he's okay with that. Yeah. I don't know. I never met nobody I'm like trying to be nervous around 24-7 all the time. Like the best part is when you get to the comfortable stage, you know, where you don't have to do the small talk with it. When your hair's in a bun and you have a big t-shirt on and maybe a short, I don't know. You hopefully. In a bunch of guy, yeah. It's been in an updo. Yeah. That's it to a bun. Yeah, not like I'm not talking about like, oh, I made my hair into it. Like I'm talking about that I my my hair's in my face, and I feel like if I just if it touches my neck one more time, I'm gonna fucking and then you just tie it in this like it's just out of your face, but it's not in the face. It died a little. It's not cute, it's frizzy, it's bad. Never. And I can imagine that that's you know, it's a comfortable place to be. Um, but I'm like that around Ethan, also Logan's brother. Well, that's different because it's not in a relationship context. I I I can't You said a man, that's what I'm saying. Oh, well, I meant like a man that I'm I've been around like Logan and you. Like I'll come to your house with a butt, you know, but I'm not like on a date or like in around the guy I'm like pursuing, you know. Like just it's a comfortable place to be. Yeah, you know, yeah. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Anyway, to get back to the London's boundaries, no potato buns. No potato buns. Well, one day potato buns. I sty for potato buns. So it's not a boundary, it's an aspiration. Yeah, I was just trying to segue back to the I lied to you guys. I'm sorry, I don't know why I lied. Okay, so um I looked up boundaries, and I in a decent practice, not for myself, for a friend, a pseudo practice, tried to use the um your your lesson. My lesson. Yeah, I've tried I tried to use it because to be quite honest. You tried to use it on them or you try to give them the knowledge to use it. Yeah, I tried to help them use it to see if it would work with them. Because with Logan and I, the boundary setting, I think I'm very communicative. I I don't it was a little bit more difficult to see to to practice it for myself because I couldn't understand the nuances of when I would use it. And so I was like, if I try it for somebody else, it's you know you when you're stepping you you're looking at it as as an objective third person, it's a little bit easier to see. So um yes, I don't know if I'm I don't know if I'm setting boundaries well in my relationship, if that was your question. I don't know. I haven't relationship with Logan. Yeah, I haven't he's not really a boundary pushing kind of person, so I don't I don't have difficulty. Is this a naive thing to ask? But uh how many boundaries do you guys have after this long? Like there can't be that many. I can I assume it's a pretty like uh fluid situation at this point where you guys are just kind of like coexisting, you know? Yeah, but that uh I would say that he would respect my boundaries a lot more than I respect his because he's less of a communicator of his boundaries. Like he like sometimes when like with when we get takeout and I buy something and he's like no, he's fine, he's gonna make something at home, or he'll eat something small, and then he'll ask me, like, oh, can I have a chip? That's the worst thing you can do to a lady BT tubs. Don't do that. And then my fucking nail like grates my teeth through. I'm like, my nigga, you said no. The options were there and you chose not. And now you're up in my food when I'm mentally counting every bit of moment of whatever you want to do. You waited for this, every single moment of this potato chip, you know? And um I will always tell you, I don't like when you do that. And so when he does that, I get upset and I'm like, no. I say no first, and I'm like, no, I don't want to give you because why didn't you say anything? And then he's like, okay, then it'll be fine. He won't make a fuss about it. But then I'll feel bad and I'll be like, okay, you can have a chip, but please, next time just get yourself something. So I don't know if that's a healthy boundary or not, but he if I do that to him, I don't know if he likes it or not. He'll always just give me the chip, you know. He never seems like he minds. He did so what I what I tend to do is like when we're sitting down and eating, I'll be like, Oh, can you pause me that? Oh, I forgot a knife, can you get me that? Like I'll you know, like in my absent-mindedness, I will ask him to do the favours because I've sat down now. And he's he's easy-yeah, he's he's always up, like he's always doing stuff. So you'll he'll be sitting down after me. I'm usually the one that's sitting first because he forgot something also, and so he went back to the kitchen to get something. Get an order or something. Yeah, and then when he sits down and I realise I don't have a fork, I'm like, oh, can I get some and he gets a little bit uh irritated after a while because I'm asking him so many things. But it took me a very long time to realise that he doesn't like once he's once he's eventually settled to be asked to get up again. I had to figure that out. He didn't say that to me. I just noticed with the tone he'd do it, but he'd be a little bit like irritated. And then I had to tell him, listen, if you don't like it, you need to say so. Then I'll know. I don't mind not asking. I can get up. You just never seem like you didn't like it. So I asked. Because he's also not a very like a fizz, he won't be like, oh, okay, like he'll just do it. So that's why I think I tend to push his boundaries more than he pushes mine, because I communicate what I don't like and like more easily. Well, well, I think maybe that phrasing, because I I think pushing someone's boundaries is with the knowledge that there's a boundary to be pushed. But I think if you don't know that you're pushing a boundary, it's not really pushing a boundary, you know what I'm saying? It's just kind of doing something that this person hasn't communicated as a boundary. But I think once you know and you keep doing it, that's pushing your boundaries. I don't I I don't think that that's an a pushing a boundary situation, but that gives me an inclination that if there were a boundary, I'm more likely to like not see it or not like to go. Or to not know about it. Because I think that's the question. Are there many boundaries that he's communicated with you that you kind of are like, ugh, I'll just kind of bypass this one, you know? Like not really. Not that I can think of. Do I have many boundaries? Yes. I don't like things bottom. Does he push your boundaries? No. No, he just forgets. So he does, but unintentionally. Like he's not pushing my boundaries because he's like, he needs something and he's gonna do it despite. He'll just be like, whoops, oh, so yeah, I forgot. Yeah. So I don't think pushing, I'd say um not as uh like it like he doesn't remember them pretty well. But once he knows he won't do it. Yeah, and and this is like small things like you know, like I'm like, oh, when I come home from work, he's a he's a chatty boy. He's a chatty boy. And when he comes when I come home from work, he's like ye information dumps. Because he's at home all the time. He's at home all the time and he's like alone at home because he spends a lot of time yeah, and then he won't talk to anybody. So when I get home, he's a person. A person. And so and so I and I understand that, but I had to ask him, like, when I just sometimes when I get home, I just I need a I just need a moment to be home because my day was this all the time. And so I'm uh very grateful to have this break now, and then I'm back into it. So if you now you if you just give me a break, then I can settle and then do it, I don't mind. And sometimes you'll forget and they'll just go for it because he's so excited and stuff, but it I don't know if I consider it a boundary, you know, like it's not like that's more just like a pet peeve or like a yeah, so uh not it's pretty difficult. But anyway, back to the story. So I it was it was easier for me because of this nuance, like 14 years later, I don't know what the fuck is a boundary and what's a pet peeve. I can't tell anymore. So I'm like, okay, let me tie with somebody else. That is a good point. What is a boundary and what's a pet peeve? Yeah, you know. Anyway, so looking at somebody else, it might help. So this person was in a situation where they We're seeing someone. Let's call this person Tonita. The person that this person was seeing, or the person that you were telling the advice to? The person I was telling the advice to. Okay, Tonita. Tonita. No, it's Tonita. Tonita. Tonita. Okay, Tonita. Tonita. Tonita was seeing the sky. And Tonita was like liking the sky, but she didn't see the sky for a very long time. And this guy was like, okay, um, let's see each other two days from now. So they were like dating casually. Why are you acting like you don't know the story? Who's Tonita? Never mind. I'm gonna tell you the story like you know. Okay, so so Tonita's not dating this guy, she's just seeing this guy. Okay, casually. Yeah, and then two. Oh, I know Tonita. Okay. Um, so two days later, well, for Tonita sets a date with this guy for two days later. But obviously they're chatting before. And in the chat, they're like, oh, you know, they're getting into it, they're like, oh, what you doing? What oh nothing? Like this is the day before the date that they set. What you're doing, nothing. Oh, yeah, just like, you know, got this thing, and then you know, probably gonna chill at home. And then they're like, Oh, okay, well, then let's set a rendezvous, you know. And then Tonita's like, yeah, let's do the rendezvous thing. Uh just message me when you when you're like done with your stuff. To which the guy doesn't. And this disappoints Tonita. Yeah, like of course. Disappoints her, she's a little bit bummed about this. Anyway, she's cool, she's like, you know, she's holding it in, doing her best, you know, a little bit sassy, but not too much, like you know, just disappointed. The next day, the assigned the actual date. The actual date. Uh this guy's like, Oh, I've just got this to do, that to do, and then I'll see you later. He was working. He was working on that. Oh, he was working, he was working. So he's working, and then when I'm done with work, I'll let you know. Yeah. And then he like makes her wait like well into the evening. After he's done with work. After he's done with work. He's because he lets her know I'm done with work. And then another hour and a half passes, something like that, and then he's like, Listen, it's real late, and like, I don't know if you wanna make this jump. I'm not good company. Like, now I won't be the best company. I kind of just want to like he doesn't say he says, I'm going to take something. Oh, you say I'm gonna take a paint tablet because we're like at work. Yeah, I'm gonna take a paint tablet and I'm just gonna go to bed now. So, like, I don't know, do you wanna like we can FaceTime? Do you want to FaceTime? Do you want if you want to, we can FaceTime. Oh, thank you, Philip. You know, Philip. Thank you, Philip, so much for your kind gesture. So Philip is giving her this weird run-adown instead of saying, Hey, listen, I'm too tired. I know we set this date. I'm disappointing you, I'm sorry. Um, let's reschedule. It was overwhelming today. Yeah. That's on me. It's an adult thing to say. Yeah. So Tonita obviously gets upset. She's like, What the fuck, dude? Like what, like, why'd you make I waited the whole day? I could have done something with my time, as you said earlier. I could have because it was for her the Sunday, she had worked the next day. So you know, we're she had spent the whole day before that waiting for him also, and now this whole day waiting for him. So it was like an uh exponential growth of disappointment at this point. So they get into a fight, right? So she's like, you know what? Honestly, it's not about that, it's about this. And then he's all like, Oh yeah, but this is my this is my Sundays or my Mondays. This is a hectic day for me. You must know this. And she's like, How the fuck would I know this? You know, you didn't tell me. Yeah. And then it gets to a point where it's uh, you know, when you get into the argument with somebody where you are describing your situation, I'm describing my situation. Neither of us are like willing to see each other because we're up in there and we're like, if you could just, you know, nobody wants to back down. And then I tell her, okay. Let's be real. You have a choice here, right? You've explained what you can explain, you need to set a boundary that if this nigger is going to do this again, you're going to do this. Now I had seen the advice. A boundary is not you telling them, for example, with a child, you are not telling them to put off the TV. It's eight o'clock, you need to go to bed. And then they don't do it. Then you shout, put off the TV. I told you to put off the TV. I told you to put off the TV, and then they don't do it. And then you're screaming and you lower it like, you know what? Tomorrow, you're not gonna watch TV. Uh that's not a boundary. That's unhealthy. That but you're just in a screaming match with them, it's not a boundary. What you should do is Yeah, telling someone what to do isn't a boundary. That there you go. So a boundary isn't something you tell somebody to do. It's something you do. Yes. So y you should tell the kid. It's not about them changing, it's about you changing. Exactly. So then you instead you would tell the kid, hey, listen, I put off the TV, or I'm going to come over and I'm going to turn it off myself. So that kid is either going to now turn it off, or you're going to go over and you're going to turn it off. Because that's the boundary. The boundary is not going to be crossed. There's nothing for it to cross. You are not watching TV right now. And so So you're saying a boundary, you tell them your reaction to it. I thought a boundary was more like um like not so much like, oh, this is this is the consequence your action will give, but like this is a reason. I need you to respect this. This is what I'm going to do if you continue to do that. Okay, I thought it was like a oh, you need to put the TV off because if you don't, you'll be tired at school tomorrow and I don't want that. That would be explaining a reason. You're not setting a boundary. Okay, I see. That's explaining the boundary. Yeah, that's explaining why there's a boundary. Okay. But it's not setting the boundary or implementing the boundary. Gotcha. So you've got to say this is what I will do. Yeah, yeah. In theory, which I'm I'm I'm not like the greatest at this. Anyway, so I tell Ternita, because I'm gonna put my business in my foot in my mouth. So I tell her, tell him that if he does this again, you are going to make distance. Right? If you do this again, I'm just going to start making distance because you don't respect my time the way I would like it to be respected. To which he yields. He said, Yeah, he yields. He was really sassy before then, then he was like, okay, sadly. Yeah, he he he starts to yield. He's like, okay, yeah, I know, I get it. Um, so I was surprised. I was like, oh, I thought that exactly. I also thought he was gonna double down, but he didn't, and I was like, okay, useful. Um then I also thought, let me tie it with the kids at school, which is something I do, and I realize that is how I set boundaries with the kids essentially. But in a different manner, sometimes you do get into this pussing argument with them. Don't do this, don't do this, why are you not doing this? It just makes sense to do this. You like validate it. I told you to do this. Why, like it doesn't make any sense for you to do this because now you're in the and you're just like this kid is like, what the fuck are you talking about? Um so instead I would told I told the kids, if you do this, I'm just going to do that. And for the most part, because kids are kids, for the most part, it was a bit more effective. For example, like if I had a substitute class, they would come in and I'm like, if you guys are going to make a noise, I am going to give you break TD. But framing it not as if you guys are gonna be noisy, then you're gonna get a break TD, and that's where I just said, if you make a noise, I am going to I'm going to give you I'm going to find you um for your next period, and I'm going to kill you. I'm going to find you for your next period before break because maybe I didn't have them for break, and then I will keep you in for the for that break. And they were like, okay, and then a little bit more like you know, there's still naughty kids, whatever, but definitely a better response. And so it's like, okay, seems like there's some merit to it. Yeah, I you know, I don't know, am I interrupting your story again? No, I'm done. Okay. I'm done. I think I think the way I always saw that um phrasing was a little uh which makes sense now that we know, like a little self centric. I don't want to say self-centered, but like uh it's focusing on yourself more than I thought a boundary was like a like like I think it's it's sound it sound sounds a little like oh if you don't do this then I'll do this. Like a little like you know, like like harder. Yeah, like a little harder than hyper. Like if you don't do what I want, this is what I'm going to do. And a little less than I thought it was like, hey, I don't like when people do this. I would appreciate if you didn't do this to me. But you know Do you see the phrasing there? I would appreciate if you didn't do this to me. Yeah, and then that person put an action. But then I'm like, that person has a choice to respect the boundary. So where's your set boundary? There's my boundary, my boundary's been set, but now you have a choice to respect that or not. And if you don't respect that, now I make my choice to leave. That's what I thought it was. But that's the thing, because you assume that they understand what you're going to do in response to the boundary. You your boundary is I drew a boundary, I don't cross it. But your your your response isn't, and if you cross it, then I'll do that. By do by doing that, you've given them a choice to cross it or not. But it's a boundary. You're not the goal is for no one to cross it. Yes. And so in setting this, saying, if you come near to my boundary, I am going to fuck off with my boundary. Okay, and I think that that's it. I think there when you were like the bound the the the the boundary, the the goal is. We're doing accents this season. The goal is to not have anyone pass it. And I think that that's not what I thought a boundary is, which is this is a learning episode. This is an educational episode. Find yourself within yourself. Because I thought a boundary was because not everyone is for everyone. And I thought that the idea of boundaries is to find your people or people who are willing to um accept and understand your boundaries. So I thought the idea is you go out there and you say, Hey, these are all of my boundaries, and the people who respect it are the people that are willing to to build a relationship with you and communicate with you in a sign that those aren't your people, you know. But I I thought it was a bit more of that than like a hey, everyone shouldn't cross it. Because people are going to cross it. And that's And I think that's that's the the same point I'm going to make to why that would be a little bit more difficult. I do agree that your boundaries are to find your people and people who love and respect you or wanted relationship with you shouldn't cross your boundaries. You know, they don't want to make you uncomfortable. But they are going to. Yeah, because it's not everybody can like it it's tough. It's tough to be a person. Sometimes your boundaries clash, sometimes, you know. Okay, and now this this brings Okay, you know, before when we were googling boundaries, right? Because okay, okay, wait. Are you saying that even the people who care about you may sometimes cross your boundaries? Yes. Okay, because they are the three, what was it? It was porous boundaries. Um, I want to say neutral, but I don't think that that was healthy. Healthy boundaries. I couldn't even remember in rigid boundaries. And I think that this is a show of how you have a healthy relationship with boundaries. Because for me, I'm like, if you pass my boundaries, that's a no for me. That's a that's a reason for me to know that you aren't respectful of me. And so that's a you know, not that I think you hate me or I hate you, but you that you're obviously. We just put them together, you know, and that would be a reason for me to be like, well, I'm gonna dip. Because for you, you're like, hey, sometimes people that you love and love you also, and you're a little bit more, it's easier for you to understand that it's a back and forth thing. Yeah. So you have a healthier relationship. Where I think I have a more rigid relationship. And and that's it. Tonita is a bit more of a porter still. Yeah, Tonita's like, come on in, let's see what happens. Because Tonita wanted a keep having the fight, or she was like, I'll just leave it and then I'll come back to this conversation again. Yeah, she's like, I don't want to have this fight, but I do still he's allowed to be uh even if he's uh part of it. Yeah. Yeah, so that that teaches me something. I think I'd never seen boundaries as a negotiation. Yeah, like more fluid than you know, like I was like, you have your boundary, you set your boundary, but that's not the case. Your boundary can also change. Exactly. And I don't think so. Like you're saying, I think that the the so that the three descriptors, basic descriptors of the three types is the poorest boundary use. Boundary styles. Yeah, was the a person who is over involved in people's lives, and you know, and I think there was another thing like they give people an overtly million chances where um overly involved in others' problems, um, avoids conflict by giving in. Yeah, avoids conflict by giving in. Doesn't assert personal values. Then the second was the healthy boundaries. Um supports them without being too involved, accepts conflict as a normal part of life. Yeah. And then the rigid boundaries detached from others' problems, tends to ignore others' opinions and avoids conflict by pushing others away. Yeah, and so I think that look, it's it's these when when it comes to these like descriptors, I it's always like tricky because you don't like always fall into one clearly. Like I think you're over involved in people's lives, but you also but you also will be like, if you fuck up, I'm out, you know. So I'm like it's a bit tough to put you in a one. And that's it's dependent on your relationship with I think I'm more rigid with my boundaries when it comes to some people and very fluid and open, boundaryless. Okay, I'll say it, I'm boundaryless with other people. But yeah, so so so I think that it's not as black and white, but those three boundary styles, when it's said that you understand, it's not that you're negotiating, because I said negotiating. I don't think you negotiate your boundaries so much, but that you understand there's a conflict of that somebody might cross your boundaries because they don't understand it, doesn't mean they don't want to respect it. It's not easy for them, it's it's it's something that's natural for them to do the opposite, and so exactly, exactly. So so it becomes like okay, well, there's a negotiation of like this is where I see it, and maybe like your boundary might be set, but you can also change your perspective and change the boundary. Like I think in the previous episode No, oh no, we didn't speak. I think we were talking about it outside of that. Um just that you like I'm a late person. Yes. And Lisa you both have the opinion or the boundary that lateness is not okay. Yes. Yeah, I think that I don't think it's not okay. Yeah. You know, I just I think communication is is key. Okay, okay. Well I don't mind. Okay, then let's let's take let's take you. But don't be late without considering. I think that's the answer. To my understanding, Lisa's boundaries. If you're late. Even if you communicate with her, she's like, you're still late. You're still late, yeah. So Lisa is very if you're late, you don't respect me and my time. And that's a boundary for her. And for me, if you're late, it doesn't it's got nothing to do with whether you respect me or not. And so we clash on that point. Well, uh in the beginning of our friendship and to the middle of our friendship, we clashed on that point quite a bit. But and so like I'm not trying to disrespect her. Yes. By you know, but by accidentally crossing this or absent-mindedly crossing this boundary. You know, um, and so the boundary, and I try to keep to it now a lot more. I'm I'm a lot better now, but it's a negotiation because if she was like Amber's late and she doesn't expect my time and she fucked off out of there, we wouldn't have a friendship right now. Yes, you know. And so I am trying to keep to that boundary, but I will I'm a late person, and so it's not the easiest for me because I don't view it the way she does, and I'm have chronic time blindness, and I'm not doing it intentionally, and so I'm doing my best, you know. But yeah, so yeah, so that's my understanding of boundary. She's also become less rigid in her time boundary. Yeah, she doesn't she's not as well. And I think it's like that with everyone because she's not like that with me, also. Yeah, or that when you guys were late for New Year's, she was the one that was calming mom down until Mom hyped her up. Yeah, you know, but yeah, she she definitely is a little bit less rigid also, and that's a show of uh when you care about someone and you understand their intention, it's a little easier to not have such strict boundaries, which makes boundaries a little bit more fluid in relationships, back to your point. So, yeah, so so I I I don't know if I'm always good with boundaries because I also think that somebody could be really good with like setting boundaries with one person and then maybe not so good with other people. I was gonna say, as you say that with Logan it's a little uh convoluted the boundary setting. But do you think that you're good at setting boundaries with friends? Yeah. Like communicating the boundaries. No. I think so. I think that I don't say what I don't like and expect them to do anything. I I will like I can't think of anything, but like if you don't put time in with me, I'm going to I'm not going to put as much time in with you. And I communicate that like your effort to me is what my effort to you will be. You know, if you don't if you don't try to set side time for me, try to make time for me, try to I won't do the same for you. And that's that's just me, like I can't, you there's nothing you can do. I'm not gonna keep chasing after you. You know, but once you pass a certain point and you've done that and you're not making time for me in a patch, it's not necessarily I don't see it as like you've crossed this boundary. Like now, if you were going through you, Ronland, we're going through something. You audience. If you were going through something and you wouldn't making as much time for me, I don't wouldn't think of you as crossing my boundary. I would think like, okay, well, what's going on? Like, why now? What's happening? So I'm not gonna suddenly be like, and now I won't make time for you, you know. So that boundary doesn't stand as a blanketed statement to anyone. It's again about the intention, you know. Yeah, interesting. Do you think I'm good at setting boundaries with our friends? Hmm. Oh no. I don't think so. Because you yeah, because you are either over involved or you aren't good because you you do one of two things. I'm gonna I'm gonna level with you. I was gonna say you were like trying to make it. No, no, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna level with you, Cole. I'm gonna level with you. You you have one of two options either you deep it or you fuck off out of there. Yes, yes. That's fair. Yeah. So either you'll be like, okay, well, that's now I'm I'm there, and so I'm just gonna leave everything alone. Or because you'll isolate, completely isolate. Yeah. Or you'll be like, you're going to get in there and then you'll give. You'll give. You'll be like, you know what? It's fine. I just it's okay, you just have whatever. That's fair. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I think I think it's because that sentence has always been hard for me to say, like, oh, if you do this, I'll do this. You know, it feels selfish almost. And for the people that I love, I'm like, I don't Yeah, it feels like I'm changing them. You know, but I I I understand now. After today that boundaries aren't about me changing them, it's about me changing in my reactions to those things, and that's also okay. Um it's not me saying, Oh, you need to be a different person when you're around me. It's just me saying, Hey, I don't like these things. And if these things happen, this is how my reaction will be. And it's that's allowed to happen. You know, I'm allowed to still have those boundaries, and if they act that way, I'm allowed to do what I said I would do, and that doesn't mean I am I don't love them. Yeah, you know, yeah, I don't care about it. While when you were saying that, I was thinking with Logan and I, and I think with my friends as well, if we get into like a seat not like a debate, like a disagreement, like we're con like fighting, I will ex like I'll say I I need a moment. Yeah, I should always do that. I need a moment. I need a moment, yeah. I said I if I get it now, but at first I used to always do it. This is going to a place where it's not I don't like this, it's not like constructive, and I need to separate myself so that I can calm down, figure out what I'm saying, and come back to you. And it's not necessarily that that person is doing anything, but it's a boundary for me to not get to this crazy shouting. We're not gonna go there. Yeah. That's my boundary. We're not going to say shitty things to each other. And that you can't take back, and you can't, and I'm not going to get into my own headspace and into my own opinion so deep that I say shitty things to somebody. So instead, I stop there and I say, I'm gonna take some space where I can think for the moment. Or I'm just quiet, like because Logan and I, I mean, where can I go? We live together. So I'll I'll tell him, like, I just I have nothing to say right now. Not because I don't want to speak to you or communicate with you, but because I need to collect myself and my thoughts, and I'm uh if anything I'm going to say past this is gonna be shitty, and I know it. So I'm gonna stop it right here and calm down first. Or I will leave the doom. Like if he gets if he gets like, you know what, button push. And I'm like, you know what? That's too far for me. I'm gonna leave the doom. I'm gonna separate myself here. I'm that's that's not that's a no for me. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't I don't tell him, and if you do that ever again, I'm gonna I'm like, no, I'm not gonna rise to that and get into that. I'm just going to be like, okay, I need to be quiet and on my own right now because we are delving into somewhere. I don't want to go. I'm not gonna go with you. It's dangerous. Yeah. So yeah, that makes sense. That could be a boundary, you know? Because I don't I don't like having fights where we are not being constructive. I'm not here to push buttons for the sake of it. The goal is for us to get to a understanding of each other's opinion enough for us to move past and be okay. You know, the resilience of coming back. And I think I think that that's a really that was literally one of the points with the healthy boundary settings in that list. And I think I think it's healthy, you know. But I think knowing now that maybe I have more of a porous boundary issue, I can see why that would make me feel a little bit heated. Because for me, I'm like, if we're having a fight, we're both having the fight. And so we need to resolve this fight together. But now when you break off and you resolve it on your own, and then you come back and you're like it's been resolved. For me, I'm like, I'm left hanging at that place where I'm like, but we didn't keep speaking about it. So how did you resolve it without me when we were both in the fight? But I mean when I come back, I'm having the conversation with you, okay? It's how that changes for me. You know, I'm not saying I'm not going to have the conversation. That's very settled. Yes, you know I'm settled, you know, and I think I can continue the conversation in a better manner. Yeah. So I'm like, so when you come back, like like you're like you're quiet the whole time with Logs, and then you come back and you're like, okay, I'm ready to speak about it. Is that when you voice the like well, I guess after the first time you don't really have to say, oh, the reason I needed the time was to do this, this, and this. So you don't ever come back and voice that boundary again. Or like have to say, This is why I reacted that way. I re breathe and I'm like, okay, where were we? Yeah. I was trying earlier, I was trying to say this. So you just pick pick it up at that same place. Yeah. No, no, not at the same place. Well, that's the same thing. From the like somewhere in the beginning to clarify. Before things got messy. Yeah, I I I try to like rehave that conversation in a better way. Okay. I start from scratch. I'm like, okay. I was trying to see. What was the problem? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay, fair, healthy. Yeah. Healthy boundary. Good to know. I'm learning. I didn't know that I was a healthy boundary set. I just assumed maybe it was helpful. I didn't think about it as a boundary. I think that's the difference. Yeah. Maybe it's not. Maybe maybe you at home they'd be like, girls, those are not boundaries. Tactical ways to communicate. It is a whole episode because we still don't understand boundaries. No one understands boundaries. That's my that's my thing. Nobody understands a boundary. A boundary is a line you draw in the sand, right? Yeah. Physically. What is a boundary? A boundary is like I build a wall and it's a boundary to indicate something. The end of something and the beginning of something. Or it's a boundary to keep people out, or it's not. I th I think I think boundaries are like teaching people how to treat you. You know? But you tell people, hey, these are the these are my reactions to things. So you teach people like if you do this, this is what I will do. And so now they know how to treat you. You know? Like basically, right? You tell people, hey, I don't like physical touch, so please don't touch me. That's how you treat me. I don't think you see, and now that that's where I differ. I think about it. I don't think it's wrong. I do think it serves that purpose. Yes. I think it serves it. But I think the the aim is a boundary is purpose to me and to my understanding. Is to is to not yeah, to not put you in a situation you don't want to be in. Yes, I agree. This is where I end. This is me ending. That's that is my okay zone, and that's where I'm okay to exist. Yes, agreed. And then the outcome is that people now know how to treat you as your comfort zone. Yes. Agreed. We got it. We got it. And if you at home got it too, we did our job. You're because that's it. Because now you know, we know we're gonna go out there, we're gonna treat people the way we need them to treat. No, we're gonna treat people. Yes. We we had it, we've lost it. We are going to treat ourselves the way we should. Yes, that's a different message, but also true. I hate boundaries, bro. I hate it. I am. Which is funny because you you fall in the healthy category. Like I feel like I'm so you say. I don't know. That's what the list is. I feel like I'm I'm healthy with boundaries. But after today, I'm I'm learning things. Like I always thought that I seemed healthy. If you don't mind me outing you, the the way I can see it. You didn't even wait for me to say okay. If you don't mind anyway. Okay, okay. Is it a boundary of yours for me to not share this? No. Okay. Um I can see it most clearly that you don't have good boundaries when you communicate with mum. Healthier. Yeah. And with me, not so much. With JC, you have a very um what's the other one? The rigid, you have very rigid boundaries with JC. I thought I had the healthiest boundaries with JC. Well and I I communicate my boundaries the easiest with her. No, if she crosses it, you did. You went alone time. But interesting. I don't think you don't communicate, but I think you her your reaction to her crossing is a bit more I need space. I need space from you, Rana. You just you you like and now she's done that again, and she's done that again, and then you you don't Yeah. I do I do think of late you've been trying much you're much better now. Yeah. 100%. You know, we all grow and we all get better and we all but yeah, but the way I can see it as black because you are most frustrated there. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think there you you definitely you either give in or you avoid. And I think that that's why I'm like so but I but I know also to me, like there's there are people I don't have good boundaries with. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think. I don't think actually I don't think so. I think so. I think with some of your friends you have your little some some friend, one friend. One friend. I only want one friend. Yeah, there's only one friend that I have that I'm not good with the boundaries. Everybody else I'm pretty sure. But they are also very sensitive. So I I can see And it's a very nuanced friendship. So yeah, but everybody else, I'm pretty okay with my boundaries. I do think sometimes you're a little fast to set a boundary, and then sometimes you'll kind of like take it back because you're like, oh, that was a little like impulse. Is this with the with everyone or with the friend? With like when you're in a bad space, I think you're very like, no, no, no, no, no. And then when you come out of it, you're like, actually, that was a little harsh. I was in a bad space. And then you'll like re-evaluate a little bit. I think that's okay. Yeah, I think it's okay. I think I think that's okay. I think if you I mean I makes sense. I mean the same in the state. Yeah, I'd like to have my head on state all the time. That would be phenomenal, but it's it's not realistic. Yeah, boundaries are all over the place. I'm all over the place. You know, it is moving with me. You know what I'm saying? All over the place. But yeah, look, uh whether you are in a good relationship or bad, hopefully not. Hopefully not. Uh boundary setting is a useful tool, I think. It goes in tandem with communication, and I think I think it protects you and and the things you um want and how you want to be around people and the comfortability you can be around people, you know. Yeah, I don't feel bad about setting them right. Don't feel guilty. You're not. You are you are putting your foot down to what you want, you know, to what you um deserve. And and also you can go to the other extreme as well, you know. You can, but just because you're setting a boundary, it's like when when girls are like, Oh, I don't want to lift weights because I'm gonna be buff, you know, I'm gonna get bulky. You know, you can you're not gonna accidentally get there, goal. Like, calm down. You'll you it takes time, it takes a lot, it takes effort, it takes your intention, you'll notice when you get there. So, much like that, don't assume just setting boundaries means you're the bit, you're not. You're setting boundaries. You have to act like a bee to be a bee. You know what I'm saying? You're either easy or you ain't. And you know, you know if you are. So you know you say you know if you are soul. You know if you are. Oh. You know if you are, comma soul. But yeah, the best thing you can do also is don't overthink it. The O teachy the O teacher.