Life Beyond the Briefs
At Life Beyond the Briefs we help lawyers like you become less busy, make more money, and spend more time doing what they want instead of what they have to. Brian brings you guests from all walks of life are living a life of their own design and are ready to share actionable tips for how you can begin to live your own dream life.
Life Beyond the Briefs
AI Can Read Your Clients Better Than You Can | Paul Bamert
Why do clients leave bad reviews even when you win their case?
In this episode, Brian chats with Paul Bamert, VP of Marketing at Case Status and a speaker at the upcoming Great Legal Marketing Summit. They dig into the real reason law firms struggle with client satisfaction — and why the legal industry is way behind when it comes to measuring it.
You’ll hear:
- Why communication — not results — drives most one-star reviews
- How AI can now predict client sentiment without a single survey
- The terrifying truth about law firm security risks (750,000+ breaches!)
- And what Paul means by “the martini test” — and why your firm might be failing it
Paul also shares what he’s building with the CX Summit, what excites him about law firm transformation, and why happy clients are your biggest growth asset.
🔗 Connect with Paul & Case Status:
🎧 www.casestatus.com/podcast
📲 www.linkedin.com/company/casestatus
📈 Get on the list for the CX Report + CX Summit info: www.casestatus.com
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Brian Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury lawyer in Fairfax, Virginia. He is passionate about living a life of his own design and looking for answers to solutions outside of the legal field. This podcast is his effort to share that passion with others.
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and the power of AI game changer, right. Large language models are letting us read all of the communication, all the body language that's going back and forth from staff to the client. Now we're getting to a point where you can predict sentiment. You don't actually have to send the survey, you can get feel off of what. So we actually have a case summary. So for those attorneys out there that are maybe overseeing a lot of staff right, the staff is doing the everyday communication, but if I'm going to step in cover for somebody on PTO or I have a goal to reach out to every client every 30 days, I can quickly go in there. I can get the summary. I can see all the sentiment. It's not a legal case summary. Neos does that? Filevine does that? Litify does that? This is a relationship bedside manner summary. Right, what's the temperature of that individual? What would they score you on a Google review right now? So that's really where I think the awesomeness of it is. You can get away from the survey. You can start predicting sentiment based on the discussion.
Speaker 2:Hey friends, welcome back to Life Beyond the Briefs. Today I'm talking with Paul Baymert, vp of Marketing at Case Status and a featured speaker at the summit this October. We're diving into client experience, where law firms are dropping the ball, how AI is changing the game and why communication matters way more than you think. Paul's also behind the upcoming ECX summit and he's got a wild stat about 750,000 law firm data breaches. That'll make you rethink email. If you've ever wondered why a great legal result still leads to a bad review, this one's for you. Let's get into it.
Speaker 3:Hey guys, welcome back to the show. Today's guest is Paul Bammerick. Paul is the VP of marketing at Case Status. Case Status is a company that keeps your law firm clients engaged and happy and informed on what's going on in their case, without tying down your team's time with answering what's going on, what's going on, what's going on all the time.
Speaker 1:Paul. Welcome to the show, Ryan. Super excited to be here.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me and the case status team behind me and we're excited to have you and the case status team at the Great League Marketing Summit this October 3rd through the 25th and you're putting on your own event about a month earlier down in Charleston and people are going to hear ads from my show during this broadcast, but before they get to that bumper, why don't you tell us about the conference that you guys are putting on?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's exciting, so it is a first of its kind and it leads up from several other things that I'll talk about, but it's the CX Summit Client Experience Summit and so what we feel like we're bringing to the legal market, the legal technology market, is an immersive study of the current state, the future of how we have a relationship with these consumers. We're all consumers, even though we're legal pros as well, but a lot of times we lose touch with sort of how they're operating, what they expect, where they expect to be met and how they're engaging with their favorite brands. And if we want to be their favorite brand at a very tough time in their life, right, we've got to understand them as an organism. We've got to be anthropologists, study them, look at their trends, get ahead of those trends and make them work for us. So that's what the CX Summit is all about. It's about coming together with a lot of practitioners to look at what they're doing to make that relationship as good as possible, to drive happy clients and how that ultimately drives the better business.
Speaker 1:But building up to that, brian, we're also launching next month which may be after this is rolled out, so June 2025, a CX report, legal client experience report, so kind of like legal trends report, has gone to kind of study and look at their own data, but also survey. We've done the same thing because we've got the largest legal client experience data set. I mean, we sent and received over 12 million messages last year, right, and all that's metadata and that's not just the only data we have. So what we wanted to do is we wanted to survey attorneys, survey clients, get some of that academic going, pull up our data set. So, this idea of client experience, we're really trying to help uplevel the industry, study it and learn from it and, of course, we like to talk about where we're deploying our tech. But ultimately, if you're interested in client experience and, as you mentioned, how you can get in front of it and make it work for you, check out the report, check out the summit and we'll continue to build into 2020's ideas.
Speaker 3:So it's curious because you use the word immersive in the description and you use that also before we hit the record button.
Speaker 1:What does that mean in terms of a conference experience? Yeah, for me it means and again, I'm not leading the effort, actually this has been, you know, vp of marketing event motion is not my forte. Luckily, we've got a team of folks that are focusing on it. But for me what it means is everything needs to be around client experience. So there's a lot of good partners in our ecosystem and, I'm sure, folks that will want to step up and do some sponsorships, but in that we're actually going to vet if they speak before a luncheon, for instance, to introduce welcome people.
Speaker 1:Why is client experience? What are you doing to drive it directly, indirectly, implicitly, explicitly, empirically for these firms? Tie what you're doing to client experience. I think it's coming more and more to the forefront and every technologist out there in the legal tech space really any space has to think about that. What's the impact to that side of the relationship equation? So for me, that's where it's immersive. First and foremost, if we have an exhibit hall, you go to an exhibit hall. I want it to be all about client experience. So tailor your pitch for your whatever against client experience.
Speaker 1:If you talk client experience, but then I want you to learn from the practitioners. So I'm big. I obviously work for case status. I'm big on what case status does, but I'm always trying to give my mic to the practitioners to let them speak about how they're using the technology. So that's the other part of the immersive is you'll have a peer group. If you look at our page, it's all practicing attorneys and we can learn from each other and talk about what's coming down the pipe.
Speaker 3:That's cool. I like those events that turn into a mastermind or to a mini mastermind if you're grouping them by injury type or practice area type or that kind of thing. So that's cool, yep, oh, what was I going to ask you?
Speaker 1:So your events in Charleston, south Carolina, that's where you guys are headquartered. Right, we're headquartered in Charleston. I'm actually up the road in Charlotte, but most of our team is down there in the Southeast. But, yeah, we've actually got some employees all over the country and a few firms even outside of the country. So we think of the world as flat, technology-wise, right, trying to serve anybody that we can get out there and help on this cause.
Speaker 3:So this customer service drive has been a pivot that I think the legal industry is just kind of waking up to. But you've seen it over the last few years and it happens still, but it's rarer and rarer that you will call a law firm and they'll answer the phone law offices, right. I mean, that used to be the standard, and so I think people are waking up to the fact that you can do a great job for clients and still deliver a crappy customer service experience and they're going to walk away and leave you a one or a two-star review. And an exercise that I like to do is kind of look through all my competitors one and two-star reviews and see what people are complaining about, and it's almost always communication.
Speaker 3:It's rarely, paul. It's rarely results right, because the client they just never know and for the most part we don't have that many unexpected results in the law. Now the client might have an unexpected result because the lawyer hasn't communicated that to them. But now we're back to the real problem is in the lack of communications between the lawyers and the clients. However, we only have so many hours in the day, right, and so if you aren't proactively communicating with your clients and telling them what's going on and telling them what to expect and providing them information that's not coming directly from the lawyer's mouth, then you can spend all your time doing that. So talk to me about some of the ways that case status eases the communication burden on the lawyer and the law firm employees.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's a great point. I would expand philosophically on perception is reality, yes, and for all of our medical brothers and sisters that we have out there, bedside manner matters. And so we're trying to bring that same thing to play here. And so technology is both the giver and the taker. As law firms we use a lot of old technology phone, email, text. I even came across one that uses fax. Yeah right, like walk into the brick and mortar. I mean, it's disconnected, it's disjointed, it doesn't come back to your single source of truth. So when you think about a relationship, parts of it are stored or never stored. They disappear as soon as they happen. There's no single source of truth. And so that's where we get behind on old technology, trying to, so you can use those technologies up to a point you just can't scale beyond. So, as your practitioners are out there, right, they're probably all trying to grow to a certain degree and they will use legacy technology and they'll get to a point where they're pulling out their hair and the complaints are coming in because they've reached that limitation, if you will, engineering limitation of what's out there.
Speaker 1:So what we're trying to do, first and foremost, if you think about the first seven years it was all about the app, right? If you look at legal tech out there and even the portals that are launched by the CMS providers and a few other solo standalone providers, the portals are all web-based. They're built the way you and I work at the office. I'm sitting on a laptop here. I spend eight, nine hours a day in front of this, so web browser is part and parcel to my SaaS experience as a consumer. Hell, no, I'm not sitting here looking things up on my medical records, my legal case, on my computer. I'm running on this thing, right, I'm on the go, I'm at a stoplight, I'm getting my kid here, I'm going there and you know that's where I engaged. You know the research says about five hours a day we spend, as consumers, on these smart devices. Ninety three percent of that time is in an app experience with our favorite brands.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So that was a big part. Apps are hard, but we got to go in an iOS, we got to go into Google, so you got that foundation. What great. With the CMS and you and you have a good invitation process. You now get the Pareto principle. If you can get 80% of people off of legacy and onto the app, you now have a foundation to build from right. You have a foundation to build transparency, empowerment, education, right anticipation of the process before it happens, communication.
Speaker 1:Everything now can transcend that one step. 20% may never do it, right, some of our customers, it's more like 9%, but still there's some factor you'll never get. But that's different than rolling out a web portal where you get 25% adoption. You're still got all that old stuff out there. So that's number one.
Speaker 1:I think that just consolidation of communication, and typically it's an easy one for law firms to buy into, because that's the pain I can't get my legal work done because I got all this stuff coming in and they're all asking the same question Well, we can solve that pretty quickly, right? But that's not where you want to stop and when I can get into the to the next phase, which is now manage what you measure. It comes back to what you were saying before, which is just, you know, client service is only as good as what you know it to be Perception is reality. So how do you put an empirical number on perception before the Google review, like, I think that's the part where I have. I just want to, you know, wake everybody up and say McFly, right, like you don't want to wait till it's a public discourse to figure out that it's a three. You have ample opportunity, as soon as you onboard, or maybe even before you onboard them, to ask a question and find out and to react.
Speaker 1:You know, and so I'll use the metaphor of just going out to dinner. We all have done it. Right, if somebody is missing my martini after I've sat down and the food is cold, right, if they wait until the check has been served, how was it? I'm just like you lost your chance. Right, ask me when you serve the martini, right, ask me early and let me tell you how you can change your game and win me over by the end. So measurement's a big part of that. So foundation consolidation. And then we don't stop there, but I'll stop because that probably is enough to chew on for our audience as far as what we're trying to change.
Speaker 3:And so that sounds like some kind of capability to send net promoter scores at various stages and then create my employees based on. You know, susie's getting a whole bunch of tens and Jen is not like okay, we got to have a conversation with Jen about the communication style, maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is Now. Here's the really. That's the previous seven years, right, we've been pushing net promoter score for a long time. Get it in there. You got to ask the question. Then you react to the question and we've gotten a lot of pushback. We don't want to ask the question. You're asking too often. We're like, no, do it, do it, it's good.
Speaker 1:Now, now in the in the power of AI game changer, right, large language models are letting us read all of the communication, all the body language that's going back and forth from staff to the client. Now we're getting to a point where you can predict sentiment. You don't actually have to send a survey. You can get feel off of what. So we're actually have a case summary. So, for those attorneys out there that are maybe overseeing a lot of staff, right, the staff is doing the everyday communication, but if I'm going to step in cover for somebody on PTO or I have a goal to reach out to every client every 30 days, I can quickly go in there. I can get the summary. I can see all the sentiment.
Speaker 1:It's not a legal case summary. Neos does that? Filevine does that? Litify does that? This is a relationship bedside manner summary. Right, what's the temperature of that individual. What would they score you on a Google review right now? So that's really where I think the awesomeness of it is you can get away from the survey, you can start predicting sentiment based on the discussions. You can prioritize messages, which we're doing. We're heading down a triage idea, right. So when you come in to your inbox traditional email what do you do? You take the first in, you kind of work down the list, right, you whittle down. You have no idea that down at 21, somebody's missing an appointment because they just need an address. Right, we can tell that that's going on and we can make it an urgency number five so that when you come in on Monday morning you're able to help that individual.
Speaker 3:So what does the interface look like on the law firm side? Because, I mean, it sounds like you're describing takes over the email server, takes over the text communications. Is all of that is true? And then how about phone calls?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is so our. I won't go down the security rabbit hole, but we can talk about that side of email and SMS text. But we have one firm belief we're not a case management system that's well-established, mature. Yes, partners out there. Yeah Right, yes, partners out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, thank you for that. I'll tell you because, because so many this is my gripe with legal technology so many companies like yours come in and you do one thing really really well and then you go we should also do intake, we should also do case management, we should also do document management. No, like yeah, and on the law firm side it's frustrating because now I have seven different subscriptions, right, but the alternative is I can have one that does one thing really well and six things kind of poorly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And that's where, again, it's give and take. Right, you want one throat to choke, but you really need, I mean, the legal tech area. If you look at the amount of money that's been invested in it, it's dwarfed by other industries. Right, we just haven't brought a lot of capital. That's changing right With Clio and sort of their series F. That's just an indication of everything that's happening in our market, which is exciting. But you kind of need people to be really focused and hyper-focused on what they're doing. And so the way that we try to make it easy yes, it is another subscription, but we want to plug seamlessly into your single source of truth. So the truth be told is, we want you to stay in your case management system. So when you show up on Monday morning and hopefully it's a firm that you've built that you want to show up on Monday morning- right Thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're sitting in Neos and not in case status. Now, you did some things when you launched case status to get it set up and you do have an admin window, but basically we can paint the screen March Madness right, picture in picture, and have all your communication tools right there. There is the API integration, but you also have that look and feel. So you're exactly right. We do not want you going to an email engine, we do not want you going to a separate SMS text engine. We want you to be in this case management, have a bulk message or an automated message or a one-off message, go out from there and come back in from there. The app is for we have it for the staff too, but the app is where the client's at right Meet them, where they want to be met. That's where they are, but everything you want for your staff is back in one place.
Speaker 1:So the voice is the interesting part, right, because voice now, with again language models, is just being digitized. So it's just an effort in our development cycle to now start taking voice over IP. And most of the firms I talk to they have a different number for intake and a different number for customers and so, basically, we can start pulling. You know whether it's a ring central, uh, we don't have that yet, right, but it that voice over IP becomes digitized Call rail does it? Ring central, does it? Now you've got it as a large language and you can pull that in, and that's our ultimate goal is to now now pull the voice in, and it used to just disappear. What's the temperature? Well, that was a tough call. Well, now we can pull that in and pull that into the bedside manner analysis and, uh, and bring a lot, a lot to it.
Speaker 3:Because I mean, boy, that's, that's really, and I this is the first that I've ever thought of this. That is really where the law firm owner should be getting the alert that the relationship is going downhill and the martini hasn't arrived at the table yet. Right, Right, Um, because, because there's so much like I actually hate most text and email communication because it never get almost never get solved in two back and forth. And if it can't get solved in two back and forth like let's pick up the phone and most complex things that we're dealing with with clients can't be explained and solved, and so the what you just described with the AI model is taking all of the communication and then reading the room and giving you the predictive net promoter score. I'm like, well, yeah, but it's missing the voice. So if you're working on the voice, that would be a really amazing full stack LLM.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that is with a report up to the lawyer that like, hey, we got, we got three fires going back here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not. You know the other part back to your managing staff. It's not always about the fires, it is. It is about having your staff's back, helping them develop, and a lot of those conversations happen over the phone, right, and that that is an arguably. I mean me and my chief marketing officer. We talk about it all the time.
Speaker 1:The UX in the next five years, with large language models, potentially will change. I mean the idea that you have to go to any GUI to get something done. Arguably, voice and the common analog is going to be the way that we engage with these agents in our prediction, right. So, as technologists, we have. So voice is actually, I think, going to come. It may be asynchronous voice, it may not be live synchronous between you and me, client and law firm, but the fact that I can dictate, have it go through. It's a message, it can be translated. It can then be sent back I mean, it's just their voices is really cool and I love where we are with these.
Speaker 1:Again, ai gets so much about and it's going to take away your license and all this stuff, but the real cool stuff of where we're deploying AI in the legal space if you look quietly at the ones that are doing successfully. They're looking at where the work is already happening, employing the models there and helping the work go from X amount of hours and cutting it 80%, 90%, right. So you've still got the same thing and you've got the same oversight, but the work has been minimized and so call is just one of the really cool areas where it's going to go. You know a lot of a lot of cool places.
Speaker 3:That's what I think so many lawyers get wrong about AI. If you haven't studied this is, you come in and you expect it to create a nice finished product that you can then turn in. I'm saying no, but it gets you a pretty decent first draft. Yeah, you know it does.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And it cuts down a lot of the work and a lot of the thinking on. You know, we have so much time with writer's block. You sit and you I can't think of how to begin to structure this memo or this email to the client or whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, you can get the first draft right, yeah, well, and think about your staff. That's what we love. We have a an AI model recommended response that looks at all your templates, looks at all your previous messages, looks at every information on your website. So when a message comes in through our platform, we're already recommending what you should respond. So it's one thing for an attorney whose hours or dollars per hour expense is very high right, you don't necessarily want them in it, so you want to hire lower end staff a $10 an hour staff for $10 an hour job, a $40 an hour staff for a $40 an hour job but what it helps you do is you can get entry level people trained up pretty quickly and that will take the voice of the best attorney and basically the recommendation will be there.
Speaker 1:So we see some up leveling as well. It saves the time of the expensive resources. It up levels the lower resources. So, yeah, it is just really dependent, but it has the voice. And that's the really cool thing, too, about when it, when it's run off of your data in a secure way, right ring fenced from everybody else, but you have your data working for you. That's the key to AI. So we really believe that. You know, you see some of these legal AI companies that are showing up. It's more that you're going to have, continue to have legal tech companies that are all deploying AI A year from now. Ai if you don't have AI in your stack helping get work done, then you'll probably become obsolete as a vendor.
Speaker 3:It's going to be really interesting to watch the legal landscape over the next 24 months in terms of, you know, the firms that have ignored or not learned anything over the last two years. It's just kind of wiped out. You know you could take so much market share by using AI to create a little bit of marketing, using it to help you run faster through demand. Package creation Right, and then client communication Right, right and then client communication right. Like okay, now if you are, if you can get in front of more eyeballs and you can sign more cases quickly on your intake and sales team and you can service the cases more quickly, like you pull all three of those levers and you can take an enormous amount of market share away from the p. I mean I, I know firms that still have hard copy everything yeah, no, it exists.
Speaker 1:It's um, I don't know, I don't know how they. They're still around, but there's still some old school that we've got to help eradicate. But you're exactly right, I think that the more that these tasks can be minimized again, nobody wants to do entry-level American work for very long.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the other thing that's interesting is the intake and the buying process, I mean we certainly are seeing everybody's been playing the SEO and the LSA game.
Speaker 1:That's changing. I mean, we're seeing it on the technology side where again the buying criteria is being prompted to the GPT Tell me who I should go with, right? So attorneys are. It's only a matter of time again before I'm driving down the road with my GPT listening and I'm asking it hey, I forgot, I need that estate planning attorney. Who do you recommend in XYZ? And so it's not going to just be a Google review game. It's going to be looking at all of your other reviews where you're showing up what your content, what people are saying about you. So it kind of becomes an authentic democratization of how legit are you right? Are you just playing the Google review game? So we're not there yet. But just, I think for your, for your audience, keep thinking about that, start paying attention to your intake and which ones are coming from the GPT models, because that's going to start to shift as well.
Speaker 3:We just got one from ChatGPT just last week. Yeah, interesting, right it's. You know it's probably the first of not the first, but it's one of only a handful that have come from ChatGPT. But for now, my sense is ChatGPT is scraping all of the Google reviews and all of the other things, right? So that's still the original source data that it's mining. But people ask well, how do I optimize for ChatGPT? It's like, no, you don't.
Speaker 1:You just keep running and doing all of the other things well, and it's going to figure it out, correct? Yeah, I think that is. You know, keep your nose down, keep it working. Nobody has that formula yet and it'll eventually create its own ecosystem of you know, seov2, whatever you want to call it right. Those organizations are going to adapt as well and help out once we know what that formula looks like and we know who the leaders look like. But you know again, chatgp formula looks like and we know who the leaders look like. But you know again, chat GPT has got a Microsoft ownership. You're seeing a lot more of being play into that, not Google, so it is interesting just to see that connection in some of the results.
Speaker 1:So being you know you ignored it for years. Do you ignore it now? Right, like it just all depends. But but yeah, I think you know, even in your case, if you can talk to that client, obviously you want to deliver your legal services. But have that casual conversation. How'd you do it? Why'd you do it? What was your interface? Did you use a prompt? Did you talk to it? You know, get to know that. Talk to them if you see it, show up and learn a little bit about that consumer behavior, because again you want to get ahead of the way that. To be an anthropologist is what my shirt says.
Speaker 3:Amazingly novel concept go and talk to your clients right.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:And this is, you know, this is the temptation of all this automation and AI is to then not talk to your clients, right, yeah, but it's like. No, the point of all of this is so that you free up more time actually to have relationships and to mine the information that's going to make their cases more valuable, especially in the injury realm. Like you know, you can, you can, you could get to a point now, paul, where you have not. There's nothing now. That's good at it. But in a couple of years there will be Voice enabled intake that signs your client, and then some voice bot that asks them all the doctors that they've gone and seen, and an outsource thing that collects all their medical records, and then something that summarizes all the records.
Speaker 1:Well, not only that, they had to get HIPAA verification and, like Yosieres is doing that now, right, like they're, they're able to take your driver's license picture and picture your face and validate identity.
Speaker 3:So awesome, and so you could you know you could get all the way through a case without ever talking to your client, yeah, no. Well, it probably wouldn't be a very good result because, you know, have any of the soft information to then feed to the adjuster or to the judge, or to the jury to build the case.
Speaker 1:But that's where, as legal professionals, you get to now make the choice right. You can now be proactive in your outreach. You can say, okay, how often should I talk to them and reach out to them? And now it's your choice of what is the good journey and how do I, as opposed to reacting to that incoming right. So I think you're right. I think the lesson as we evolve to that is that you want to still have that human contact and and make it come from you, because, again, nothing makes people feel psychologically better than you reaching out to me. It's so much better than me having to reach out to you and the you know.
Speaker 3:The other thing that technologies like yours enable law firms to do is communicate with clients the way that they want to be communicated with. So my, my personal um coach, business coach, has been for years and years and years telling me you have to communicate with clients the way that they want to Do. They want you to text them, email them, call them Like you need to play on their grounds. I'm like dude, we have too many clients. I can't. No place to store in my memory, or I guess I could store it in the CRM. But like, how do you want me to communicate with you? But now when, whenever you log into the uh, the case status interface, like it tells you right or it could tell you.
Speaker 1:Well, and I will predict it could.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a client who only ever text you yeah Well, and that is to be aware of that. If you ask your 100, 200 clients how would you like to be communicated, they're going to say voice, they're going to say text, some of them are going to say email. That's one of the problems, like that's one of the weird things about technology is people don't know what they want. But we have proven in a deployment process where if you say, hey, I'm going to give you an app, even the octogenarian boomers out there, I'm going to give you an app and here's what the app's going to give you to do. So if you do that properly and you invite them, they're like, oh, wow, yeah, you're right, I don't want to be in my inbox. This is too important to have 19% open rates because I'm trying to get some outcome, often financial and healing.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think that, just taking that idea into consideration, that your clients, you got to watch what they do, not what they say they want and what they do in other places, uber doesn't give you an option to email and text. They just say here's your app, right, and so it's sort of subconsciously for the consumer out there. So, be aware when you ask them where they want to be met and you're using the legacy technology. They're going to give you the answers time and time and time again. But yeah, I think that they're all programmed. We're all programmed to actually do the opposite and as soon as you give them that option, they'll gravitate. People don't know that that we actually have a web browser portal running a horse race running right next to the app portal every day of the week, and it is typically 10%. Don't just use the text backstop. 10%, maybe 8% use the web portal and an 80% use the app.
Speaker 1:The horse wins, hands down and you have the Pareto principle time and time again.
Speaker 3:Well, that's, and that's just smart business building. You created all three instead of saying, okay, this is the one that we think the market actually wants here. Here it is yeah, yeah, so it's good stuff.
Speaker 1:My last thing that I'll just comment I alluded to before security. Yeah, yeah, so it's good stuff. My last thing that I'll just comment I alluded to it before security. You know the clients. As much as we want to serve them, the one thing that they're really screwing us on as law firms is they are a security risk. So as soon as you start doing emails and SMS text, I have read so many case studies where the actual bad stuff comes from their machine. Think about it. Right, you're doing emails back and forth with 200 clients. The chance that they're going to get hacked and then it's going to come into you as a you know, as a Trojan horse or a phishing attempt is very common.
Speaker 1:I got a chance on my podcast to interview Constance Anastapulo, who's a professor at UCLA and Charleston Law School, and she cited 750,000 data breaches against law firms since 2020. And I was just and again. You look at the data time and time again, so be aware of that too. Right? There is there is nothing worse for perception than to go to your client and say, guess what, we just got maliciously taken advantage of and I might've lost some of your important information. Right, the bedside manner. Nps scores. All the martini metaphors. You want, you just.
Speaker 3:You just lost that one, because there's federal laws about your requirement now to disclose that to your clients once it happens.
Speaker 1:The bars are starting to put guidance in there too. You're starting to see it more and more Get away from email, get away from text. So, yeah, I say that as a public service announcement. Again, that's not just lawyers, that's everybody. But the stakes are high, right, you think about medical and legal. You're a professional. You've built your entire, you know career on this idea of your license and being. You don't, you don't want to go down that path.
Speaker 3:It's just way out of my depth and so if you're listening and you want more information on cybersecurity, you should reach out to Callum Parks. At Parks Ziegler in the Newport News area, callum is he's our my go to cybersecurity expert for lawyers. He will free plug. Call him. You could send me some referral fees for this. Seriously, that's nice. Review your cybersecurity insurance, make some recommendations and he's a good guy to talk to for this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Love it, Brian. I think that's a good connection because the insurance is the other side of it. Absolutely recommend that.
Speaker 3:All right. So as we wrap this up, I know that you have your consumer data report coming out in June. Anything you want to tease from that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the big thing it's for me. I've been studying it. The key findings is there's a client experience gap and it kind of has four sides to it. One is perception. We've talked about that today. We can ask lawyers what they think the relationship looks like and you can ask the consumers what they think using the same words, and you'll see a big difference in the jump. It's like me and my wife right, like our perceptions are very different.
Speaker 1:Then you get into the communication and we can show sort of what the behavior is out there. Again, we talked about that today. So the communication gap is real. What is the preferred communication method, meeting where they're at, versus what we're doing?
Speaker 1:Then you get into the measurement gap. Most firms are not doing it. If they are doing it, sorry, it's about half firms that do measure client sat. So that's good, we should do it. Most do it at the end, right, and again back to the metaphor before it's a little late. And then and then fourth is operational.
Speaker 1:So the question is how do you use the measurement to do better things? And that could be your reviews and referrals, right, if you're a marketing operation, but it could also be your staff development. There's a lot of people that wear the chief operating officer hat and they're just looking for efficiencies and gains internally to lower that bottom line. Right, can you do more work with less people? And so there's a gap there, in where it manifests itself. The report will have more about how to address that, but I think you hit on it. We preach a philosophy engage them where they're at, measure and act on what you measure. That three part series. You can come to us. We'll make it super easy. But you can enact that on your own and we preach that engage, measure act. You'll see a little bit of that in the report and we'll be talking about it probably going into our event and your event. We'll bring it up so we'll become students of it.
Speaker 3:So I do think this is going to come out before your report. So where can people go to get on the list?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the report will just be at case-statuscom. We'll probably have a banner. Make it easy at the top the CX Summit if you want to sign up. Same thing, we've got a banner out there. Right now it's just an RSVP, but tickets will probably go on sale in the June timeframe, so keep an eye out for that. We'd love to see folks there and, if not, there, find us. Virtually, we're always on the road the events team but I am hoping to be at your event, brian. That'll be exciting and, yeah, we've always got folks that can help talk through a lot of these talking points, so look forward to meeting anybody out there outside the podcast. Well, I appreciate you doing this. Hey, I appreciate you, brian. Thanks so much for the time. This has been a pleasure.
