How to Build a Reputation Without Owning the Firm | Will McCreight

Most lawyers think the only path to influence is starting their own firm.

Own the business. Put your name on the door. Build the brand yourself.

But what if that’s not true?

In this episode, Brian sits down with Will McCreight for a conversation about reputation, visibility, and building a meaningful career inside someone else’s organization.

They talk about the career advantages most professionals overlook, why relationships still matter more than people think, and how consistently showing up can completely change the trajectory of your career.

There’s also a deeper conversation underneath all of it.

About ambition. About patience. And about the difference between building a title and building a reputation.

Because the people who stand out in this industry usually are not the loudest people in the room.

They’re the ones who keep showing up, keep contributing, and keep building trust over time.

If you’ve ever wondered whether you need to start your own thing to build something meaningful, this episode might challenge that assumption.

Connect with Will

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-mccreight
Website: https://www.blusharkdigital.com/

____________________________________
Brian Glass is a nationally recognized personal injury lawyer in Fairfax, Virginia.  He is passionate about living a life of his own design and looking for answers to solutions outside of the legal field.  This podcast is his effort to share that passion with others.

Want to connect with Brian?

Follow Brian on Instagram: @thebrianglass
Connect on LinkedIn

Transcript

The AI Search Question Everyone Asks

SPEAKER_00 0:00

How often are you fielding questions about how do we rank for AI search?

SPEAKER_01 0:04

All the time. All the time. And and rightfully so. Rightfully so. It is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, uh change. And I think I always appreciate the conversations with the people who want to be super proactive, super forward thinking. Right. There's something to be said for hey, if we're waiting until it's the massive share of search, right? It's the it's the giant in the space, we're we're starting from behind. But at the same time, you know, we need to be cognizant of where the most value is coming, right? Because if I said, hey, look, we're ranking for all these AI search terms, but we're not ranking for things that are moving the needle now, right? Then then it's not a successful partnership.

Meet Will McCrate And Blue Shark

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Everybody, welcome back to Life Beyond the Briefs, the number one podcast for lawyers choosing to live lives of their own design and build the kind of practices they actually like showing up to on Monday. Today's guest is Will McCrate. If you've been to a legal conference in the last, I don't know, six or seven years, you know Will is the tallest guy in the room. Will is the senior account executive of Blue Shark Digital Marketing. Um, and we're going to be talking today about all kinds of things from you know building your own reputation in the legal world with inside somebody else's organization. Um, we'll probably touch a little bit of SEO. But then more importantly, I think is the interface between law firm owners and lawyers and their vendors and their marketing directors. So, Will, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I appreciate it, Brian. It's uh it's a pleasure to to join you. It's been a pleasure just to get to know you over the past couple of years, and I'm really excited to uh join.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yeah. Well, thank you for being here. And you've been uh very kind with your time coming to Speak of Great Loop Marketing events, most recently at our digital digital marketing boot camp to talk about local search and showing up in the Google Business profiles and all those things. And I think that would be a very hard thing to talk about today without the help of visual aids. So if that's what you're interested in, go to the next boot camp. If that's yeah, come to the next boot camp, or you can go to glm summitnotes.com and and download all the notes from Will's last talk.

Building A Personal Brand At Work

SPEAKER_00 2:06

So we're gonna skip that stuff today, but I'm I'm curious, you know, because you've built a name and a reputation for yourself inside of Seth Price's organization, Blue Shark Digital. And I had Seth on here a couple of months ago, and we and of course we talked about you. But most people in this space don't. And you know, maybe maybe an appropriate place to start would be like, I think you and Nalini Prasad have both built names and reputations for yourself inside somebody else's umbrella. And so what is Seth doing? What's in the water at Blue Shark? That's a terrible pun. What's in the water at Blue Shark? What is Seth doing to cultivate that trait and to support the leaders in his organization that is not as apparent in the rest of the legal space?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, you know, it's a it's a great question. And for me, I don't know that it was ever an intentional effort. Something that's been really cool and Blue Shark, you know, has just been fantastic with helping me grow my professional career. And maybe it it starts with my kind of journey at Blue Shark. So I, you know, when I started out, I was I started out as an intern in college, my senior year, interned at Blue Shark, which then, you know, turned into a role within one of our teams internally. They then came to me after about two and a half years and they said, Hey, we think that you'd be really great as one of our account strategists, not like something that I was really looking to make or a jump that was really on my radar. They pushed me and encouraged me to make that leap. I did. I loved it. It was fantastic. Um, from there, you know, I had an opportunity to go to a conference and help the team out at a conference. So I agreed. I took that jump. I went to the conference. And uh after about two and a half years on our account scene, they said, Hey, I think you're really great, right? Like talking to people before their clients as well. And so that's then they said, We think you'd be a great um, you know, member of our account executive team. And I was able to step into that role. So I think a lot of it has kind of occurred naturally, but if I had to attribute it to one thing, it would be that they and Seth specifically, both Seth and Nalini are fantastic at encouraging people to make certain jumps, maybe before people have even realized it themselves, or me specifically, before I knew that that I was ready. And having a company that really, really trusts the people that work there and encourage them to develop professionally is probably the piece that that has helped me create whatever you know, brand, personal brand I I've been able to.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Is there any is there any training coming top down or otherwise on speaking or networking or cultivating personal brand?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Not necessarily. If somebody's going to a conference, right, you kind of get a little bit of a prep. I would say that Seth himself is I've been really fortunate to to watch him in action and watch the way that he presents himself, the way that he navigates, you know, those those rooms, which are like very crowded, and of course, like hundreds of people in them at times. And I think there's probably something to be said for being in the environments, feeling comfortable in them, and and then also getting in environments where you're you're not comfortable, right? Like pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone. And and I think just showing up is a big piece as well. And and from there, continuing to learn, realize that you don't know it all and get better.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Are you still right in the conference circuit?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

I'm that it seems like it never ends these days. I don't know that the world has any more of a need for conferences in Vegas or shows in Vegas, but there's always stuff out there. I think on one hand, it's awesome because you you really see such specialized events these days. Really, whatever you're looking to improve in your firm, there's something out there. Uh, and because there's something out there, there's a good chance that I'm out there uh as well. But it's a it's it's awesome. There's so many cool places that I I would not be able to go visit or see if if it wasn't for those.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

And all kinds of marriage points, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

All kinds of marriage points, airline points, all

Surviving The Conference Circuit

SPEAKER_01 5:56

that.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

How do you just physically manage that schedule? Um, you know, because I went to probably five last year and it was a lot. And maybe the answer is like if you're going to five, you go to all the happy hours, and because I go to 35, I don't. But how do you physically manage performing the job in a different time zone, sleeping in uh hotel beds with oftentimes an increasingly like open bar, all you can drink, sponsored by whoever the latest AI vendor is?

SPEAKER_01 6:22

It's tough. It's tough. Um, you know, on one hand, it's hard to complain about going staying at the nicest hotel, right, in Miami or wherever the case may be. And so, you know, I try to put it into perspective, but I think it's something where I made an intentional effort early on to keep myself in the habits and continue to do things like prioritize my health, right, what I'm eating while I'm on the road, staying active, you know, trying to get a run or a workout in, you know, every day, right? Like continue on the habits that I know are going to allow me to be energized and want to do these things in the long term. You know, the drinking piece, I it's something I, you know, rarely am I drinking at any of the events that I'm that I'm at. You kind of just learn how to not do that. And you for me personally, you try to find the the tipping point, right, where it gets a little bit, you know, less productive and and you know, understand when it's time to just go go to sleep, wake up the next day.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

And I'm sure having been on the circuit for long enough, you have seen some epic blow-ups probably from with other other people in other organizations.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Attorneys and vendors alike. You see, you see the blow ups. When you see them, you it helps you keep the good habits to prevent them, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

But on that good habit and training piece, you you ran a very fast time at Marine Corps Marathon, and I know you just PR'd cherry blossom 10 miler. I mean, that's that's one of the interesting things about going to new cities. Like it's always a if you're looking for a five or a 10-mile run, it's always somewhere new to kind of map out around the hotel.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah.

Running As A Discipline Tool

SPEAKER_01 7:56

So the running piece is I'm that's something that you and I have talked about um in person, actually, like on a run. I think it was in Salt Lake together. The running piece for me has been the one thing that I would attribute any success that I've had, you know, to beyond just actually what is like a work responsibility. I think that running it, it has taught me so much, uh, taught me so much about discipline, consistency, right? Like stacking progress in small increments over time. But it's also, you know, it's as simple as if you got a pair of shoes, right? You you can go explore. Anyone who's been on the road or gone to conferences knows you spend a lot of time in the hotel rooms, like in the convention center and wherever it is. Um and sometimes it's the best way to explore a new place for 30 minutes. But it's also something where there's really no excuse as long as you've got your shoes, right? You can always go out and do it and and um and explore the city. So it's become a big part of my life accidentally. You know, I started doing it in one of that cliche, one of those cliche ways where it's something I was never very good at when I was playing sports. I was always finishing last in my pack, like the runs, all that stuff. I I hated it. And, you know, I decided I wanted to focus on that, but I found so much personally through it. And I I just think it's translated to ways I I never expected beyond, you know, just just running. What are you doing next? It's a good question. I don't have a race on the calendar right now. I'm eyeballing a couple of them. Um I've done the Marine Corps a couple times now, and I want to try and find a different one, but it's really hard to turn down the race that's like a 15-minute metro ride from your front door. I want to do New York, but you know, New York, you have the impossible uh lotteries, and and if not, you have to kind of commit to fundraising a certain amount, which I just have yet to feel the need to commit to. But I was looking into Toronto. Looking into Toronto, cool place to go if I was going to do one away. Timeline matches up with my personal schedule as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

That's cool. Cool. Yeah.

Lawyer And Vendor Communication Cadence

SPEAKER_00 9:56

All right. So speaking of conferences, lawyers go to conferences and and we sit there and we take a bunch of notes, and sometimes we're just in real time texting our marketing director on those do we do this and should we switch SEO vendors? And and this is the latest AI thing. We should create a whole bunch of AI practice area pages for every city that we practice in, right? And sometimes our marketing directors just ignore us and sometimes they act and do everything and screw it up. Uh we talked about this a little bit in Salt Lake. What what do you think is the right cadence for a lawyer who's in a call like a small to medium-sized law firm, you know, one to maybe five lawyers, one to maybe $10 million in revenue, the right cadence for them to be interfacing with the marketing and the website people?

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yeah. That's a it's a really important question. It's something that I have, especially when I was an account strategist, I've experienced quite a bit. And I think the answer is a bit nuanced, right? The first step is you need to make sure that you understand the strategy that your digital agency, whatever vendor you're working with, is doing, right? Beyond just a number that you're seeing on the paper, I'll tell you from the agency standpoint, if you don't have that, you know, communication, that collaboration, right? We aren't able to necessarily understand exactly how your goals may be consistently changing if we're not getting that information. To me, the cadence is at minimum once a quarter, right? Have a big picture strategy call. If you've got somebody, like I'm a big advocate of having a CMO, right? Uh uh, you know, whether it be fractional or a full-time CMO. Um, and if if you have that in place, right, obviously a lot of that, the goal of that position is to help take some of that off of your plate. So it depends on factors there, but at least once a quarter is really important. And if you're not having that collaboration at least once a quarter, right, I would have heavily encourage you to bring somebody on to your team that is going to be very well suited to take that responsibility, to have that high-level collaboration, or commit to doing so on a regular basis. Otherwise, it might not be the right investment.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

And what are the numbers that you as an agency need to be hearing from the law firm owner that that maybe aren't showing up on the digital web portal?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, the biggest one is the signed cases, the quality of calls, leads, traffic, right? The reporting, the dashboard, you can see a lot these days. You can see a lot of information on traffic, you can see a lot of information on calls, on trends. But what you aren't necessarily able to see is the quality of those cases or even the ones that are signed, the value. First step is make sure that you have integration set up with whatever your CRM is, right? That's the easiest way. But beyond that, the biggest piece is the quality and the trends behind it. Otherwise, what you might run into is an agency that sees a ton of traffic heading in the right direction, calls in the right direction, right? Everything might look good on paper. But if the quality is not there and the sign cases conversions aren't there, you don't have a ton of insight into that world and into whether or not it's working or it's not working. Even what's not working, the data is important to know. So that's the biggest piece that seems isn't always there, right? It does require a little bit of help from the firm.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

What's the state of law firms now in terms of data sophistication? I mean, there's Lead Docket, there's Clio Grow, there's all kinds of softwares. My sense is that I assume law firms are more sophisticated than they actually are just because of the conferences that I go to and the people that I talk to. I'm probably talking to a more sophisticated level of owner than your average owner. How many of your clients or the people that you're talking to are using some software to track leads that are coming in? And how many of them are still doing on an Excel sheet or a postcard?

SPEAKER_01 13:36

You know, that's another interesting point that I always try to make to people. When you're on the road, when you're at conferences, right, the there's something of an echo chamber in place, right? The the fact that people are there means that they're thinking

CRMs Signed Cases And Lead Quality

SPEAKER_01 13:48

about these things. It is not always the case. I still have conversations with firms that, you know, do not have a CRM in place. These days, I'm I'm honestly hesitant to partner up with a firm that doesn't have something like that in place. So it's it's it is not entirely uh utilized across the board. But beyond that, I would say one of the bigger differences is you know, it's not just having it, but it's how well do you have it built out. Right. You know, we are only able to integrate as well as the integration itself is is built. And so even the firms that have a CRM or just the case management in place, there's also levels to how well it's it's built out. And that is one of the biggest advantages that a firm can have. And I think it's one of the most important things that you should do before you even look at any sort of marketing investment, candidly.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

It's one of the things that we found really challenging is that you know, you have you have the data, but you're constantly learning something about your data that makes you go, actually, that last quarter's worth of stuff is not very clean. And you're kind of I find myself constantly fighting this battle of like if the data is telling you things are trending up, but it feels like things are trending down, then there's something wrong with the data. If the data tells you things are trending down, but like you settled a bunch of big cases, then it feels like, you know, something's wrong with the data, right? And so the matching this emotional, just how does it feel in the moment day this week with what's actually on paper is is really hard in an environment where you you really don't know with much particularity in real time in a personal injury contingency fee practice how many dollars you have in your pipeline. You know, you can you you can do your your quarterly estimates and and on fees and when they're gonna resolve, but you never really know much beyond feel.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

You don't. I don't envy that part of the process. You know, it it is so easier said than done, so much easier said than done. And to some extent, there are things that you do want to look at. You you also want to avoid overanalyzing, right? And and there's something to be said for what future predictions may be. Yeah, I think of AI search as a big one currently, where it's if you looked at the data and you made all of your decisions on AI search based on the data, right? We know that it's still not a massive percentage of search share of the volume. So that data alone would tell you that it's not worth investing in whatsoever. Um, but if you look at the big picture, right, you can look at the trends and where we expect that to be. So I do think that there's something to be said for for you know trusting your gut. I also think there's value in knowing or trying testing and tracking something, even if we don't expect it to work, to be able to validate that it's not going to work. But also continuously reassessing if if it's been a really long period of time or we've made significant changes between now and when we last tested. Um, you're ever, you know, always chasing that like optimal performance that you probably

AI Search Hype Versus Real Value

SPEAKER_01 16:40

never get to. But the more information you have, the closer you can get or you can better predict the right decisions to get there.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

How often are you fielding questions about how do we rank for AI search?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

All the time. All the time. And rightfully so. Rightfully so. It is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, change.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Well, it's the it's the biggest change, but but I mean you just said, and then and the data bears out. It's such a small percentage, actually, of searches.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah. Yeah. And and I think I always appreciate the conversations with the people who want to be super proactive, super forward thinking, right? There's something to be said for, hey, if we're waiting until it's the massive share of search, right? It's the it's the giant in the space, we're we're starting from behind. But at the same time, you know, we need to be cognizant of where the most value is coming, right? Because if I said, hey, look, we're ranking for all these AI search terms, but we're not ranking for things that are moving the needle now, right? Then then it's not a successful partnership. I think it's I think it's something that an agency is responsible for guiding. And I will say, in my experience, having those conversations, they're easier ones to have after trust has been established, right? It's it's something where, okay, the things that you've recommended historically, we've found them to work well. We've seen it play out, right? Now we're willing to trust, right, that something might be a conversation to really have now about expectations or you know, potential opportunities down the line, especially in this space where I know so many people, if not everybody, has been burned by an agency in the past or um had an experience that has them weary of digital as a whole.

AI Educated Leads And Intake Sales

SPEAKER_00 18:16

The trend that we are seeing within our office, at least anecdotally, is that if somebody comes to us through a ChatGPT or a Claude query, then they are a much harder sale because they've been looking for information and and they have many more questions before they will just sign the DocuSign agreement. Um that's that's interesting because it's it's almost like full circle, right? So 15 years ago, or Ben Glaslaw's whole thing was before you sign any papers with the insurance adjuster, like read our book, like come get information. And now all of the information is at your fingertips, right? And the job of the lawyer or the or the intake department is to is to convince, and that's sounds more nefarious than it is, but to to convince the person that actually information isn't the answer, like having a lawyer who understands how to apply the information is the answer.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

It's sales, the intake piece, right? It it it's it's such a it is a sales. I know that some people will call it that, some people don't, but at the end of the day, those research-driven people, right? Where if you're on an AI search engine, you're doing research, right? It's it's heavily research-based. The sales piece is a is a piece during intake.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

I have my intake and sales team now going and watching car sales guy videos on YouTube because if you watch those, you'll you'll learn that it's much more about asking the right questions that lead the person to the to the conclusion that that you have the solution to their problems than it is about supplying them with the answers that they think they're looking for, right? So people will come to you and and they'll have questions. Well, how does it work in Virginia for medical billing after a car crash? And and the wrong thing to do is to answer that question. The correct thing to do is to focus on, you know, what what would it look like if um if your billing got screwed up? Is that something you're worried about, right? Because we're not able even to give you a correct and an accurate answer over the phone without looking at your policy and without understanding all this stuff. And it's legal advice anyway. My team isn't allowed to do that. Or the the intake team isn't allowed to do that. So it's full circle, uh, and it's making the salespeople's job harder. Are you hearing that from your other clients?

SPEAKER_01 20:27

No, the intake, I don't know that you can ever have intake perfect, right? It's it's always evolving, and someone from the intake team, right, believes, right? You're you're starting from scratch as far as like building up a certain individual. It can change so quickly. But I I think that's super interesting what you say about the sales training. I I think it's a very real thing. What you refer to, the question piece, right? It's something that we would call like the discovery phase. And it's it's learning exactly what challenges we're facing, right? Like what's important to this person, you know, is it speed? Is it right, you know, the best result? I, you know, there's a million different things. And I think it's something I'm always guilty of as well in in my life. It's before you, you know, provide an answer, you really need to get to the root cause of why that question's being asked. That's the that's the way to understand what that person's looking for, whether or not you're a fit. If you are fit, right, how do you provide them with the information to feel confident? Yeah, it's it's really interesting to hear you say that. Honestly, I think that's smart.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Well, this is why, you know, in general, lawyers are pretty bad salespeople, right? Because we we've been trained to issue spot. You've been trained from from the time you were taking tests in law school to find all the problems and show off how smart you are by identifying all the problems in somebody's case, right? Somebody calling you about their, they just want to know you can fix the problem. They don't want to know the 17 ways that it might go wrong. And so the we have had a tremendous amount of success taking that out of out of my hands and out of other lawyers' hands in my firm and putting it into an intake person who um who really believes that we're great lawyers, rightly so, I think. Um, and that. And then we can solve anybody's problem. But she doesn't actually know what the answer is. So she can't tell people.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Well, you know what? Collecting the right information though. And uh also there's the whole problem of scale, right? If you are the one answering the phones, right, that is not a formula for success. It's one of the other things, right? With beyond the CRM piece where it's it needs to be established, right? If if you're fielding every single call, you're missing some, right? You're you're taking them and you're not spending time elsewhere, right? The other ways in which you're looking to grow and scale a firm. So some sort of intake is is a very, very big part of the process.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Is there any level of existential angst bubbling up in the digital marketing and SEO website building community about AI search?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

You know, there's always existential angst, I think, in this space. Honestly, I I view it as an iteration personally. Visibility is visibility at the end of the day, right? And, you know, if somebody is running a search, the nature of that means that they don't have an answer. They're looking for an answer, right? So the visibility piece, you know, there will always be a need for that, in my opinion. And if there's a need for it, it's not that it's going away, it's just that maybe it's changing the way in which you need to approach getting there, which is part of the reason why I I really enjoy working in the space. School itself changes every other month, right? Significantly. So you always need to continue to look ahead. Um, and it it I also view it as an exciting opportunity

SEO Angst And What Still Works

SPEAKER_01 23:26

because it's another way that you can compete by doing things that others aren't, right? By really focusing on certain uh elements. So if anything, I think it makes it a fascinating iteration, um, but the tools themselves allow things to be done quicker, right? You can, you know, have certain things built out at a much more effective, fast rate, right? And so it it also I think raises the ceiling for what can be done in certain periods of time.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

You can vibe code a website and have it up and SEO optimized, you know, over the weekend, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Well, look, you know what? People who don't, I still talk to people who don't have websites, right? Regardless of whether or not you're trying to use SEO as like a long-term source of signing cases. You can't tell me that there's no value in having a site out there. And if it's something that you can go do on your own in claw, that is way better than having nothing out there. So I think it makes it it makes it accessible for people.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

The lawyer in 2026 who doesn't have a website is not gonna create one in claw on.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

They're absolutely, they're absolutely not. That's a that's a super fair point. But you know what? Somebody will be able to build it for them for a fraction of the cost, right? For 500 bucks, and that's way better.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

What is what do you think um in the second half of 26 and into 27 is like the latest, greatest trend that lawyers are gonna be trying to chase in the digital marketing space? Outside of uh it ranking in the AI AIL.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

You know, the chat GPT ads is an interesting one. Um, you know, we saw that start to get rolled out a couple months back. Um they were asking for these super insane commitments, I want to say, like over $100,000 committed like over the course of the year, like super expensive. It sounds like they're maybe making those a little bit more accessible, which will be interesting to see. Honestly, the more research that we do into the AI search, just the testing reverse engineering of it, the more we see it's it's the fundamental best practices that it's always been. We see about 85% overlap, about 15% difference, but you can't do that extra 15% unless you have the 85% overlap. Right. So it's interesting. We see that as it gets more and more complicated, it almost becomes more and more simple. Right? It's the things that's all does no the review piece. That's for me, that's the most important thing that any firm can be doing that they should be doing, that they are leaving fruit on the table with. It's the review piece. It's it's controlling the things that you can control that also position yourself and separate you from the 500 pounds real estate.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Here's here's the simple answer to that, right? Because lawyers will always ask, what's the best method of follow-up? What's what's the best software that does automated follow-up? It's like, how about you just create an experience that's worth leaving a five-star review for?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that and that gets you a long way. But also, I think there's something to be said for not overcomplicating, right? The best process is the one that works for you. You find the process that works for you, you're consistent with it. I see that after that, right, you see the power that the reviews can have, and it then becomes okay, can I get a little bit better? But you don't want it to become such a scary thing that you don't do anything, right? That like cost of inaction

Reviews Simple Systems And Future Trends

SPEAKER_01 26:32

I see time and time again. So the first step is just to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Do you have a sense for why there are no mega firms in Northern Virginia? Just on this on this review issue, right? So so I look around Northern Virginia and we've got about 450 reviews, and that puts us number two in the area. Number one has 700, number three has like 150, right? There's and so the incremental benefit to me of getting the next one is relatively low outside of the get your periodic reviews. But I look at other major markets, and they're firms with 3,500, 5,000. And the firms with 50, 100 lawyers, whatever. Working nationally, do you have a sense for why that doesn't exist in the Northern Virginia, D.C. area?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

You know, the one thing that I can point towards maybe is the fact that there's no billboards. I don't know that the market lends itself well to coming in, being able to spend a ton of money. No, you can't, there's no billboards in DC. As far as I'm aware, there's no billboards in the majority of Northern Virginia. I don't know when those start coming.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Or maybe like Fredericksburg area.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

It's a market, it's tough to come in and pour a ton of money into it from a billboard standpoint. I don't know if that plays a role, but you know, I was just in Vegas a couple weeks ago and I saw 5,000 billboards. Um maybe that's uh something that the mega firms look at.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

I love how how niche it is because in Vegas, there's one on your way to the airport that's like injured in the hotel.com. I was leaving Breckenridge. There was a skiing injury billboard.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

I saw a billboard in Vegas that was advertising themselves as like the cheapest lawyer, which I thought was super interesting, right? Like you see that as well. Where was it?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

There's a um there's a guy in Arizona who's your discount lawyer.com. There he is on the back of a bus. Yeah, all kinds of ways to advertise yourself. All right, well, this has been a lot of fun. Sure, you got a conference you have to jet off to. Where can people find you next?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, you know what? You can find me on LinkedIn, right? I do my best to kind of share insights that I have. You can of course find me on the road. If you're curious about specific questions, things that you, you know, want to discuss from an SEO standpoint. You know, you can shoot me over an email, just will at blusharkdigital.com, or you can go on our website. Um, that's probably a great place to start. Um, or you can catch me at one of the GLM sessions, hopefully continuing uh to be there over the next couple of years. And if not, you'll run into me at a conference.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

I'm sure we'll see you in October. All right, Will. Thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Thanks, Brian.