Not Another Mindset Show

EP 95: Emotional Eating, Sales Call Scripts and Client Check-In Questions (Q&A Part 2)

• Dr. Kasey Jo Orvidas • Season 1 • Episode 95

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 46:32

A client can have hyper-positive check-ins every single week and still be struggling through an entire month without telling you. In part two of this live Q&A, Dr. Kasey Jo Orvidas gets into why that happens, what coaches are accidentally doing to make it worse, and what to do instead.

 

In this episode, she covers:

  • Why calling a client an 'emotional eater' (or letting them call themselves one) makes the behavior harder to change, and the difference between overeating, binge eating, and binge eating disorder that every coach needs to know
  • The check-in question coaches think is supportive that actually puts the wrong responsibility on the wrong person
  • How to identify fixed mindset in clients through their language instead of telling them they have it (and why telling them never works)
  • What to do when a client feels unworthy, shuts down, or says 'I don't know' to every question about her self-worth
  • The rocks analogy for prioritizing when a client has too much going on and coaching time is limited
  • How to get clients to name specific emotions instead of just saying 'good' or 'bad' (including when to use a feelings wheel)

 

If you've ever thought you and your client were fully aligned on a plan, just for them to fall off track anyway, the gap between those two moments is exactly what this episode is about.

 

Resources Mentioned:

 

Connect with me on Instagram! 

 

Grab 5 Free Lessons in Mindset and Behavior Change Coaching [HMCC WAITLIST]

 

LEAVE A REVIEW, WIN A WORKSHOP! After you leave your review, take a screenshot and upload it to this form to be entered to win

 

Want me to answer your questions on my next Q&A episode? Drop your questions here!

Just because they're paying you doesn't mean their brains are any different than your boyfriend. it turns into you think, you know better for me than I know better for myself, has likely nothing to do with nutrition itself. Hello my friends, and welcome back to not another Mindset show. I'm your host, Dr. Casey Joe. My goal with this podcast is to take the science of mindset and behavior change and distill it down into actionable takeaways for you. Together we're gonna unpack research around motivations, self-sabotage, willpower, and so much more, and we're going to take all of that and translate it into strategies you can immediately apply to your health. Fitness, relationships, business, marketing clients, all of the things. But just to be clear, it's not all serious and sciencey around here. We're gonna have a ton of fun too, and I'm so excited to share all of this with you. All right, let's go ahead and get into the episode. I'm just getting through the ones we had from before and then we can come back to the ones that people are popping in right now. So this is from before, from Jillian. can you also talk about some of the systems you find work? Do you take notes or a blurb after so you remember what you've talked about and try before? Slightly overwhelming. this is different for every coach. So I will say with the hundreds and hundreds of clients that I've personally worked with and the systems that we had at KJO coaching, my one-on-one company, when I had assistant coaches on my team, we did have a pretty robust like note taking type of system. we use, this is from like Cure, you could talk about systems. Uh, we use clickup, which is, uh, customer management software, project management software, everything in between and had a different. They call them tasks in clickup, but really like different spot for each client where we kept all of the information on like where they were at in the program, what was going on. Coaches would leave notes in there. also just like had check-in forms all in like one spot, so you could very easily like see from previous weeks what people have done. Leave notes on that. everyone's different and everyone operates differently on how the best way for them to keep track of everything. But I mean, honestly, the other coaches who are on the call, you can share, you can answer Jillian's question too and in general. This is like, not to just keep sending you guys an HMCC, but we talk about this stuff all the time in HMCC and you're gonna be surrounded by 99 plus other coaches, some people who have been doing this stuff for 15, 20 years and have probably tried a lot of different systems. we get into conversations about this stuff a lot, whether it's like coaching software or like, how are you guys like keeping track of the data for each of your clients? All of it. yeah. So can you keep that in mind too? It's sometimes you just need a crowdsource. this one is from Eric. On the live call you mentioned that we shouldn't always be telling our clients what to do, and that coaching should focus more on helping them think and make decisions for themselves. How does that apply in a coaching program that also includes educational content, like lessons on nutrition or training. For example, If clients watch a short lesson, like what is protein and why is it important? Is it appropriate to ask them to implement something related to that lesson during the week or would that still fall under telling them what to do if the goal is for them to apply what they learned? How can we frame so they take action without feeling like we're just giving them instructions? Ooh, that's a good question. for instance, you guys are in HMCC and I have, you go through a module and then I have you do an application assignment, and then we get on a live call and we talk about that application assignment and how what you just learned applies to your coaching specifically. That is me telling you what to do, go fill out that application assignment, right? But that is different than me saying this is the exact script you need to use with your clients. And although sometimes. Coaches and HMCC want something like that, we know better. That's not how this works, right? I can't just tell you what to do because then people will read it and go, that's not what I would say. That's not how I would say it. This doesn't make any sense to me. I don't wanna do it that way. And that's how it'll work with your clients too. It's different when you're saying like, Hey, here's this module to watch and here's an exercise that compliments the module so you can actually get it into your life. So I wouldn't worry about that too much, Eric. I'm, I'm glad that you are.'cause it means that you're like really paying attention. You're like, oh shit. Am I, am I doing all of this incorrectly? so more so, You're still providing autonomy by saying, go figure out basically how to add this into your life. You're giving them like a quote unquote assignment to go apply it, but they're figuring out how they want to do that, how they wanna fit it in, what that actually looks like for them. So. Yeah, I don't, I don't think you need to worry too much. And education is still important and teaching our clients stuff is still important. I don't want you guys ever to feel like, oh my gosh, I can't now tell my clients about anything. I can't teach them things. There's a big difference between teaching and telling, you know? I think some coaches, a lot of coaches get those wires crossed where they think they're teaching when they're actually just like telling, but education and giving them information about protein and that whole thing is different than, oh, you're, you're lacking protein in the last week. Why don't you go pick up these high protein snacks? That's not education, that's not teaching, that is telling. So we wouldn't want to do it that way. I hope that clarifies and that is helpful. this is a question from Jillian and I think it goes really well with what was just asked. Okay. I've wondered how you implement actually working through these behavioral sticking points with clients. When we have limited time, it seems like some of this would take some significant time to really help someone work through. yeah, Jillian, and you can, you can let me know in the chat too, or come off mute really quick. If you, are you doing like calls? Do you have like a certain amount of time that you actually get to talk to 'em? Yeah, so I'm doing weekly calls with my clients. They take it depending on the client, anywhere from like, I don't know, 20 minutes to like 45 or an hour. Yeah, I think part of it is that you do have to remember, you're not gonna be able to like get through everything every single time. And as time goes on, you'll probably get to the point where it's like we have less of these really big topics to work through and we're getting more into like nitty gritty little pieces. so with you and having that like 45 minutes to an hour, it's okay to prioritize some things and know that there's other stuff that you still wanna get to and touch on. And that's where you kind of have to like learn the discernment of like what's going to be the biggest rock to focus on first. So like if that is the fixed, fixed mindset umbrella is over all of this stuff, if that's the case, then we probably don't need to start getting into like. Really specific strategies for like habit formation and, teaching about self-control versus stress and what that looks like in your brain. These are just topics that I'm thinking of from HMCC. It may be, and probably is if you're noticing that the overarching, underlying, however you wanna look at it, issue is mindset, then that probably is worth your time to spend extra on rather than some of the other little things. at the same time, we do want them to still be feeling like there's a, a concept in psychology called idleness aversion, and we don't want them to feel like they're idle because we have an aversion to it. So they, we want them to still feel like they're like actively doing things to make progress. Fairly certain, a lot of people would get frustrated very fast if you're, you've just spent the last four weeks and four hours just like talking about mindset and like working on that stuff. So probably still want to like insert some really like easy action oriented stuff. Things that are helping them get into it, whether like that's from a nutrition or fitness perspective. Um, really tangible things while this is still like for you, you're keeping the main focus on. because also like once you start to chip away at some of those bigger rocks, the other rocks that you've been like wanting to get to are also getting impacted because the bigger rocks impact the smaller rocks. I hope that helps those kind of like analogies and rocks and stuff. I hope that Yeah, it does. but yeah, I would, I think it can, it can be very overwhelming to be like, there's so much stuff it could do and there's all these things and. I think just like taking some time to like look at everything and go, where do I wanna start? And kind of build like a, a roadmap for yourself of like where you would wanna go with them can be helpful. So you just feel like you have direction. but yeah, also some of this stuff is going to take more time upfront and that's the truth. But the goal is that you're putting in the time upfront so that there is less time later versus just like spinning wheels or like throwing things at the wall and hoping it sticks for six months and then they're still not making progress. Right. This next one is from Audrey. And Audrey, I'm really sad you're not joining HMCC. This go around because one of the bonuses is the level two module on emotional eating. and it's an, an entire module from level two on just this exact thing. So, I don't know how much you wanna go into this question, Casey, but this is the last question from last time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. okay. I also wanna ask about mindset approach to emotional eating and binge eating. I'm really careful around this. I don't wanna go out of scope. Yeah. Good. Good job. Any recommendations about the approach to helping with this? I have a client that I've been working with, and we've talked about regular eating, which was helping and food scarcity mindset, but any other recommendations? Okay. I do have, Kira, I'm gonna need you to be the podcast person. Okay. I got, I'm ready. I already brought it up. I have episodes on emotional and stress eating. There's a couple of them that definitely can still like get you started and help you with some of the foundations. And also I have an episode on scope of practice and that like health coaches are not therapists type of thing, which I think can give you some good, like rules of thumb to know to ensure that you are staying within your scope of practice, which is obviously very important, especially when we're doing this kind of work. we need to be cautious of that. but absolutely coaches you can help with mindset and behavior change and support emotional eating without being a therapist. That is, that is absolutely something you do. And, I obviously, I think you should be doing. So that said. You say mindset approach to emotional eating and binge eating. There's also, there's quite a difference between, like, this can be helpful for the scope of practice thing between binge eating and binge eating disorder. And there, this is an HMCC somewhere, but it's a, it's an external link here. You may even be able to find it if you just go to Google and type in binge eating disorder scale. but you could. If you need to, if you feel like you get to this point to send it to your clients to fill out, or you may even have enough information to fill it out for them to see how they end up scoring. because binge eating disorder is definitely something we are out of scope of practice to support. unless you are happen to be an eating disorder therapist also, which we have had those students in our program too. but if it's binge eating, and also there's a big difference between binge eating and overeating. So we're talking overeating, binge eating, binge eating disorder. We need to know the difference between all of those things. I also have a post on this and cure. I don't want you to go hunt it down because I don't know how far back it was, but it's like, um, a Venn diagram that says overeating and binge eating and understanding the difference and just how generally that term binge eating is overused. When we're actually just talking about, oh, you like had. Five extra Oreos than you wanted, but is that really binge eating or is it just overeating? which can also be helpful to just like delineate for you as a coach and also in conversations with your clients, because if they're reframing it as like, oh, I just overate versus like, I binged, like, you can tell there's, there's weight that comes with that word. and that can make a difference in just like how they see it and how they're approaching it and whether or not they think it's changeable. So then we're talking about mindset here, right? People think that they have a problem with binging versus like, oh, I just overeat like, like a lot of people do. that can make it seem more changeable, which now we're talking growth mindset territory. So, mindset around emotional eating, overeating, binge eating, depending on what we're talking about here. I mean, there's absolutely a mindset component to this, which I think. Probably didn't even need to be stated, but when we're thinking about how these things work in tandem, I mean, a classic easy question could be do you actually think if, if your clients are saying, God, the emotional eating thing is so tricky because, there's research on like identifying yourself as an emotional eater. Like if your clients are using that term and calling themselves, I'm an emotional eater, they are far more likely to continue to emotionally eat. But if they're not using that term, then there's like a difference there. And we also don't want to start telling our clients that they are emotional eaters and then they start labeling themselves that way. And now that they think that that is something that they can't change, the labeling part is, is an entirely different conversation.'cause then we start talking about identity and then unpacking all of that. but what you can do, simple question is like asking them. If they feel like this is something they can change. So if this is a, a constant conversation that's coming up, a pattern, things that you're talking about your client with, and they're bringing this up, asking them scale of one to 10, how, I have to ask how changeable do you think the emotional eating or whatever term they use, don't use the term if they're not using the term, do you think is changeable? Immediately that will give you feedback on where their mindset is at with it. And of course, you can do the classic, like, why is that number not higher and why is it not lower? So if they say, I, is it changeable? Four out of 10? Okay, why aren't you a five or a six? What would it take you to get to a five or a six? But also why aren't you a one or a two? Oh, because I've made changes before and I've been able to improve my behaviors. Okay, now why is this any different? You know, there's so much good stuff that could come from, from those little simple questions. okay. I hope that was helpful. That is all of the questions from prior. So we're good to, jump into questions from today. the first one. Is from Hannah. how do you approach a client who is struggling with being vulnerable and sharing all the details of the, their challenges in their check-ins? This is a very, very common thing. client example from the beginning, her checkin check-ins have been hyper positive and there's a lot of fluff with little t Recently, she shared with me that through the month of February, she was heavily binge eating, there's that term again, and was unhappy with her progress, none of which she shared with me through the month. Through the conversation, she admitted that she has a hard time being vulnerable and asking for help, but it's something she's actively working on. Our conversation felt like a big breakthrough, but wondering if you have any wisdom to share moving forward with her, how to approach clients like this. English is not her first language and I can tell she uses chat. I mean, that's honestly Hannah. That could be, that's can be a really big part of it. You know, I would not be brushing that detail off, which obviously you mentioned it for a reason. but yeah, if English is not her first language and she's, you know, people are different. Right? some people English is not your first language, but you also like learned English when you were five and they can communicate very effectively in English how they're feeling, what's going on, other people. And you can maybe tell me where, where your client is at with this. that's not really possible. Like guys, I've been trying to learn Spanish for a while and I'm getting better and I've actually recently gone on some dates with a guy who's a native Spanish speaker and it's been fun. But, um. I cannot communicate. Like I feel like I can't communicate my personality. Right. And like who I actually am. Like I'm not at that level at all. And that's where I desperately would like to get as far as like fluency goes. and it's really frustrating to me 'cause I'm like, I know I just sound dumb and I can't like get out. I can't show you who I am. So that could be the biggest thing here. Like it really could. yeah, you can let me know, Hannah, where, if you think any of that resonates or not, or if you're like, no, no, no, no. That's not quite. Oh yeah. Just let me know. Yeah, so she's French Canadian. okay. So she's lived over here on the West coast for quite some time. Okay. Definitely I can't tell.'cause when we hop on calls, she's so shy, but I can't tell if she's shy because of the language barrier, if that's just her personality. But there definitely is an element of like, I'll ask a question and she has a hard time kinda like computing it into English. And I think the chat DPT thing as well as she's kind of maybe using that as a crutch in her life, not to assume. So like getting comfortable speaking in English is something. but yeah, definitely a big piece. But also could have used Chad DBD to let me know that she was struggling with emotional eating throughout the month of February. So there's a lot of elements going on, for sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's, that's interesting. okay, let, let me read the rest of this. An intention of hers from the beginning was to be kinder to herself and work on her self-criticism. I can see that shift in how she shows up in her check-ins, but I also fierce you refrain from talking about the challenges For that reason, she's 22, she's a baby. I think there could be an element of age in terms of experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have a question in check-ins that asks if there's anything I can do as a coach to support her. And she always says everything is great. I'm sure she does. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. She definitely, she does feel supported and it, it sounds, I'm like, even just like me picturing this and like, through all of this, I'm like, I, she definitely appreciates you. Right. you know, I actually like, I really don't, this is probably a conversation for another time. Podcast idea, maybe. Kira, I can write this down. I don't really love the, uh, what can I do for you to support you? Better question. I don't love it in a check-in form. I don't love it. If you had a friend whose mom just died, I don't, I don't love it in general because it's putting the responsibility on the person who needs support to be deciding like that. They need to like ask for more if they're in that position. And obviously those are two quite different examples, like client check-ins form versus your friend's mom just passed away. but in, in both cases there's like, I, I have a hard time with it because it's like, you tell me what you need and figure that out. And the truth is, in, in both cases, they may not know. They don't know how they need the support. You know, I don't, I'm not saying I have this full belief that if you have a friend whose parent passed away, you shouldn't ask them how they can best support you. Like that's. I think it obviously depends and there's more, way more nuance to this conversation. but in general, I think if a client doesn't know that, they're not gonna be able to answer the question Maybe there's like still some awareness that needs to be built and understanding her own inner dialogue and who she is as a person and what she needs. Like there's no way she even like French off to the side that she would even know how to ask that in French, you know, like, so. That said all with, all, with all those words. I wonder, Hannah, what your thoughts are because it seems like you're having a little bit of like an intuitive hit of like, there's more going on here that I'm not getting. is in some way asking her that without making her feel like she's doing something wrong or that she is not been truthful. That you're like saying that in between the lines. like you could say maybe in her next check-in, just like point out all of the positive things that she's saying and then you could follow up with what is the thing that you're still feeling most challenged by, or that you feel like you haven't fully grasped yet. Or there's, there's a way to say that so that you're asking her to think about, I don't wanna say like the negative things, but the things that maybe would bring out more for you to work on. there's a variety of ways you could probably word that. while still. Being clear that you're recognizing her wins and you're not just like, cool, sounds good. So what's going terrible? Tell me about that, please. You know, so yeah, that's, that's what I would do. That's a, that's a good question though. That's a good thinker. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, I think that like more direct questions. I think maybe in our one-on-one chats is huge.'cause like I definitely have been like, hey, like is there like more you're not sharing with me? And of course she's just like, everything's great. but I think also like to sit and do a whole check-in and like actually like sit with her inner world and what's challenging, it's probably a lot, especially when, you know, English isn't her first language. So I think just like, here's one question that is direct. You know, obviously we love open-ended questions, but when somebody has a hard time with what's going on in their head, like specifically what are you being the most challenged with? Is I think, yeah. Yeah. Or even you could ask, like, you could do that of like from the past week or in the upcoming week. Are there any obstacles or challenges that you think. We should talk about beforehand, before you get to them or something like that. You know, there's lots of ways to kind of just like present that. And also I think regardless, it's letting her know that you want her to bring that info to you. So even if she's like, can't really think of anything right now, it's like, okay, but now you know that I'm like looking for those things and you might notice that she starts sharing more if you even just like make it known that that's the stuff that you wanna hear about too. Alright, next is Jillian's question How do you suggest pulling some specific feelings when clients say, I feel good about X, Y, Z, or bad? Straight up. Ask them a follow up. Can you name some specific positive or negative emotions to expand? Yeah, I feel good or bad, like wanting to go a little bit deeper than that. I mean, you can throw in a feelings wheel if you want to. I don't know if you guys have seen those before and know what those are. maybe Kira can find one if you just Google it. I feel like I'm in therapy. She has one right next to me the whole time. That's so funny. and throw that in like an image into the chat, but just like, gives more words to identify how they're feeling. Like, so when you say, I mean you could, you could literally say you don't need to do a feeling s wheel, but that's just like what popped into my head. okay. You say you're feeling good. What does that actually mean? Because that means different things for everybody. Or you say you're feeling bad, like what does that actually mean? Because it's different for everybody. and then they expand from there. I think it could be as simple as that. if you wanted to incorporate the feelings wheel at some point, if it makes sense, you definitely can. Um, just to give people more words to work with. all right, I have how and when sales call versus first call or other to explain, Hey, listen, getting to true maintenance and then deficit truly takes more than three months. So while you'll likely see some good progress body composition changes in three months to get consistency and feeling confident in your own, it will likely take a lot longer. So keep that in mind when we get to the end of the three month package. I would not say most of this on a sales call if I'm being so honest. People are fearful of things taking a long time. We want instant gratification. Again, it's the way that we're wired, saying keep in mind that this will likely take a lot longer is scary language to someone. we know that as coaches, right? But this is actually a conversation I had with some HMCC students recently that how many of their clients who have now been with them, this was in our alumni group, have been with them for a year longer, couple years. How many of those clients, if you would've gone on a sales call with them and said, this is gonna take two years, they would've been like, fuck yes. Sign me up. Can't wait for this to take two years of my life. None of them was the answer. So people need some baby steps and they need to feel safe and to know that like they're not like locked in because that doesn't feel safe. or yeah, I mean. There's so many things that you can think about in your life that like took a lot longer. But if at the beginning someone would've said, this is exactly how long it's gonna take, like the chance of you then actually doing it.'cause now you know how long it's gonna take. but it's just like as you get into the process and time goes on, it doesn't feel that way. So just being cautious with language is basically what I'm getting at there. However, we also don't want people to think that they're gonna lose 30 pounds in 30 days. Obviously I'm exaggerating that, but still saying on a sales call, there are a lot of coaches out there that are going to make big promises to you. And if you're saying you wanna lose 30 pounds, they may tell you that that can happen in three to six months. And I will tell you it's possible for that to happen in six months. But I also am not gonna guarantee anything because like things come up, life gets in the way. We may run into some like new roadblocks that neither of us even knew existed in the first place, and then have to work through those. But those are all really good things because if those things come up, then we work through them. Then now that's how you're making changes that actually last rather than like quick fixes and fad diets. Or you can plug and play things that they have said they have done that have not worked. so there's like stay within integrity and don't make false promises. But also this is where we, we've talked about this in HMCC with students too, like having a form of a guarantee with clients that within six months, like you're, you are guaranteed to make incredible progress in so many ways. But I can't tell you exactly what that looks like. And it does require you also to be on board with the things that we're working on and working together and sharing things with me, and this being a collaborative relationship. Otherwise, then I definitely can't guarantee anything. I know my program works. I've worked with X amount of people and have helped people lose anywhere from five pounds to a hundred pounds. I know what I'm doing and I know this works. and this is kind of like you're safe here. Language, you can feel certain, and trust me, language, I have credibility language. however, even with the people who I've helped lose a hundred pounds I, or people I've helped lose five pounds, I wasn't guaranteeing that that would happen, but it does. And there's again, there's just like ways to speak about this stuff and help them recognize and put you in the position of being more credible because you're saying. I'm not gonna guarantee that you're gonna make immense results in 90 days because I'm not a fad diet infomercial. I'm someone who actually is really, really, really obsessed with you making changes and seeing results that actually stick. So like you see how I'm doing that, where you're being honest and in integrity and still telling them the truth it's like honesty is the best policy type of situation. I just wanna say thank you so much for saying that.'cause it, I'm just a little baby coach over here just kinda getting started so it's intimidating to wanna sound so confident, you know, and that all like, that's exactly how I would wanna say it and wanna sound saying it too, so that's super, super helpful. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. That's, I mean, something that. Coaches struggle with a lot is like, how do I, how do I make them feel like they can make changes, but also not guarantee changes?'cause this is like weight loss in life and people and humans and messy and all of this stuff. but there's a way to communicate it for sure, and people will appreciate that. But big part of that to your point, is conviction in your offer, confidence in the work that you do, which I understand can be hard if you haven't had a lot of clients that under your belt and people that you've worked with. and also like that's where resources and experience in other ways and education and learning and practice. And practice doesn't necessarily have to mean clients. Like, yes, definitely want you to get some clients into your belt, but there's ways to learn. I mean, HMCC is a great example of that. We do a lot of application practice, mock client stuff, which can definitely support you with your confidence. Okay. You are at Audrey. When it comes to clients feeling not good enough, what type of questions can you ask them to help? I have a podcast episode on this too. It's funny that you asked that, Audrey. I feel like I'm pretty tapped in with what these coaches are looking for. If I got full podcast episodes on half of these, what type of questions can you ask them to help? I have a client that feels like she's not worthy of a healthy breakfast. I know I can ask what types of like evidence we have for and against that thought, but where do we go after that? This client is really shy and there was a lot of, I don't know, so what can I say to help encourage them? Okay. Have you ever just asked why she's not worthy of a healthy breakfast? Um, what makes you feel that way? I think sometimes we want to come up with the most interesting and complex question, but the simplest ones can be the most powerful because if she says, I don't know, to that, like, I don't know why I'm not worthy of a healthy breakfast. I think it could be something like, well, here's the thing. I certainly don't know why you feel that way, because I'm not you and I'm not the expert on your life and your feelings and things that you've been through and experiences that you've had, but there's a reason for why you're feeling that way. If you truly don't know, how would you feel about me sharing some follow up questions to help us work through this and figure it out together? Because insert utility reason why we're doing this.'cause that's always really important if we want people to do things. Because if we can figure out where some of this lack of self-worth is coming from, that is going to make a huge difference in your desire and ability to stick to these health behaviors, to see results, to change your entire life is the truth, right? It's kind of corny but's true. So putting that into like a format, step by step format. Why? If the answer is, I don't know, remind her that she knows herself the best and you don't. And so you gotta, you kind of need her help here. And then follow up with questions around how to actually figure out what's going on and why the self-worth is what it is. I have, and she's come with. Okay. She can shut down sometimes. Audrey, to some degree obvi, obviously, I don't know the whole story for this either, but if that continues to come up and you can ask her too. Does this show up in other areas of your life where you feel like your worth is hindering your ability to do things or do things for yourself, take care of yourself. We may be getting into territory of where this is out of scope of practice. especially if it's hindering her like day-to-day life. She has a lot of anxiety. Bingo. Yeah. If she, is she working with a mental health professional outside of like working with you or is she seeing you as that person and let me know. I'm not actually sure. if she's mentioned that she has a lot of anxiety and she has shared that with you, I don't think it's out of the realm of what you should be doing in your relationship with her to ask if that's something that she works on with a mental health professional, which also then kind of like draws the line for you of like, that's not something that I can help you with, type of thing. Okay. Jillian says, okay, I think last question. Okay. When a client. Feels bored and maintenance. She has a history of good weight loss on her own. Wanted to work with a coach for accountability and digging in deeper. So we got her back at maintenance for Consistency, and she's antsy to get to a deficit Again, she knows there is a reason and understands, but not seeing any big body changes or scale changes is a little discouraging as well. I feel like a broken record reminding her. She's staying so consistent and she acknowledges and verbalizes that too. She's honestly a dream client with adherence. So my question, instead of saying, I'm proud of her consistency consistently in this phase, how else can I approach? Classic? You should be so proud of yourself for how consistent you are staying and how consistent you are through this phase. Like that's not something everyone can do. Shows that you have a lot of dedication and the effort that you're putting into this is really paying off, and this is going to mean really big things for you going forward in your ability to continue to see progress, maintain that progress for a really long time. That's how you can say it. So you're pointing out, you should feel really proud of yourself because, and here's the things that I'm seeing, and then she will likely come back and have some very good responses to that. Okay. Okay. We did it. That's, that's all of 'em. Wow. If you have time, I need to know both case and Kira's stance on spoons. The actual cutlery, not the metaphor for energy. Dopamine. There is a debate going on in my Instagram DMS right now over big spoons versus small spoons. Jillian and I are very passionate about this. Oh, I'm team. Small spoon. I can't fit a big spoon in my mouth. Like I can't do it. You I'm eating. Yeah. But also like my fiance uses a spoon for fucking everything and it weirds me out. Like he eats a almost everything with a spoon. And I'm like, this is a fork meal. Like, what do you mean? Why do you want a spoon? I definitely use spoons more often than I use forks. But that's because the foods, maybe things where people would use a fork. I probably not like pasta. It does. Jackson does that, right? Like that's weird. Yeah. That's weird. He does that. Yeah. We gotta look into that. There was something, there was something the other night that we made. He used a spoon for. And I was like, but how are you going to, how you gonna chomp the bits? You know? You know what I mean? I think I like, I am mainly bigger spoons. I like small, doesn't surprise me. You feel like a big spoon person. don't know why you give off big spoon energy. I give big spoon energy. Yeah. I'm a small SPO energy. Like please Sophie. let me see. Sophie. It might not have gotten pulled 'cause I don't remember. One from you. Please hold. I was gonna say, do you remember it or do I need to go pull it? Basically, I have my boyfriend in my mind and here's a very kind of red personality. Going. I, I'm, I'm sure you guys are very, like, you know what I mean by that? but like, to give him like nutrition advice. he kind of feels like he knows it all. And I often get like, obviously like he, he gets a lot of information from elsewhere. So it's like if someone feels like they know better or they have like an ingrained thought, how would you approach that? yeah, this is, I mean, how many times people in the room have you like, given advice to someone and they push back on it and you're like, I don't understand. You just, you were talking about that you were struggling with it and I just tried to help you, and now you're like telling me that maybe that's not gonna work and you're not sure like I'm what? but. That is like classic why we talk about the things we talk about in HMCC and like not telling our clients what to do all the time. Right. As much as like they are hiring us as the people who have the information, it still is the same thing. Just because they're paying you doesn't mean their brains are any different than your boyfriend. Right. but gosh, yeah. So it needs to be his decision, right? It needs to be something that he wants to do. he knows that, you know, nutrition, right? So the, the realtors is like, if he wanted your advice, he would ask for it. The goal would be that this is so fun that we're working on your boyfriend. the goal would be that you're asking him questions and having conversations about things that aren't making it seem like you're prying or that you're trying to like, sneak in advice. But instead, like if he is offering up, like conversations about stuff or like, oh, I really need to get in, like, some more protein today. Or I need to, I need to eat some more protein. I really think I, I haven't eaten enough today. Or instead of you being like, oh, well this is like, you could do this, or I, you could try this or try having this type of protein thing. Or maybe you need to start having a protein shake in the morning before you leave for work or whatever. Just instead say, yeah, like, what do you, what do you think you're gonna do about that? Or What are some options that you think will help, sometimes too, especially if he's already in this space, you even saying that he's gonna not wanna hear him talk to you about it. because he is already there where it's just like. I don't want you to feel like the expert on me. And that's, know that that's where it's probably coming from Sophie, that it's not that he doesn't trust your advice, he doesn't think you're smart, that you know these things. It's that he feels like it's, it's my girlfriend is trying to think she knows who I am. And I know that seems like how is that the parallel? But that's just like how we work that it turns into you think, you know better for me than I know better for myself, has likely nothing to do with nutrition itself. so keeping that in mind also can maybe just like help you when you're going to respond or say something or whatever. but I don't know, do you have, like, does that help? Do you have any more like specific examples that maybe I could help you with too? God, I'm sorry. I'm trying to think. what is your goal? With my goal For him? For for him. Like, for him or in the relationship? Or like, for, not, not like, do you guys wanna get married, but like, but like what? Like why are you bringing this question to me? Like, what outcomes are you looking for? When I, I think he's just like, he just doesn't eat very many vegetables. And like, whenever I try and like, suggest like a whole grain option, like simple things like, he kind of like pushes back. And then he, he is one of those classic people that waits until he is like starving, hungry and then just like, has loads of like, snack foods and like he, he has a pattern. And every time I'm like, see, see? And like he just, he is kind of just very ingrained, like has very habitual. Tendencies, I guess. Does he want to eat healthier or is this you just being like, I'm a nutrition professional, like, it's so hard for me to keep my mouth shut when you're haven't eaten something green in a month? Uh, maybe a little bit. Like, I know he like wants to offset 'cause he goes, he boozes quite a lot and like yeah. I think it's just like offsetting other behaviors, I guess. So. Mm. Do you guys have like, conversations about nutrition in his nutrition or just like nutrition in general? Like you're talking about your clients or yourself, like obviously you're, you're doing all of those things, you know, like you're probably eating vegetables in front of him, so like he already sees you doing that, I would assume. Mm-hmm. but yeah, like what are conversations about this like look like for you guys where then you get into this problem of. I'm giving it advice and then he like pushes back. there isn't really like much conversation about it. I'm just like, I cook things and then he just kind of chooses not to have it and stuff like that. So maybe it's just, yeah, it's just work, so in that situation, like you're cooking dinner, there's vegetables in it, and you notice he doesn't eat them, instead of like, you really should eat vegetables. I thought you wanted to like offset the drinking or whatever. which I'm not saying you're saying those words exactly, but I instead, oh, did you not like the broccoli? Is there a different vegetable I can make next time? Or could I cook this differently? So you would like it. So it's like going back like, what do you want? Like, how can I do this differently for you? Versus like, why aren't you eating the vegetables? You know? And just like, I'd be curious what he would say in that situation where you're like, is there a way I could have made this differently that you would've liked it more? Like, I, I really wanna make things that you like, or if not broccoli, is there something else that you would prefer that I could cook for you? You know, like, go that direction. And would he just literally say, I'm not eating vegetables ever? No, he doesn't say that, but like, yeah, it was just like an example. I, I thought maybe it was more to do with his, like, personality type, but it might not be, it might just be him and like his preferences basically. Yeah. It, it, it could be like, you don't necessarily know it sounds like, so could play around with some things, go with some certain questions and see how he responds and see what comes up. But I would definitely, like, again, he knows that, you know, stuff about this, so I don't want you to be feeling like he doesn't respect my education or doesn't know that I know these things, that he doesn't know that I can help him. I think he does. It would be crazy if he didn't. so let him come to you, ask some of those other questions that aren't like, related to that in that way, and see where that goes is what is what I would say. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. It's funny too, you guys will hear these stories all the time. You're gonna get all the insights into my life. But the guy that I mentioned that I've been going on dates with, he plays professional tennis and gets like 30,000 steps a day, does not eat enough at all, and is like, I got like probably a hundred grams of protein a day. And I was like, uh. And you went to the gym and you're playing tennis and you're running around and like, yeah, I also have to gram grams protein though. She, meanwhile I will say, oh yeah, I think I, I think I hit like 150 grams today. And he's just like, oh. So instead of me being like, you need to eat more protein, like that's, I know you think that's good, but it's really, you probably need more. It's like, I'm just saying, yeah, I think I got like this much, you know? so then obviously he compares it to like, I am me and he's him with his activity level and being a man. So, yeah, it's like I, I've never really like been with someone before that doesn't know things. Like, I've always kind of like dated nutrition and fitness people and obviously he's in fitness, but like crazy to me that being at that level that we're not getting food. I think I'm at 15 grams today, so I don't wanna brag. You are. Stop bragging. I have two eggs and that's protein and that's about all I know. But be next time you eat a vegetable, you just need to be like, Hmm, this is the best Brussels sprout I've ever had in my whole life. Be a real shame if you've tried just one bite. Or you could do what my sister does with her 2-year-old and do a no thank you bite. It's like you have to take at least one bite, and if you don't like it, it can be a no Thank you. Bite a no. Thank you. Bite a no thank you. Bite. No for now. All right, friends, that's it. We are, we are wrapped. Hope you got a lot out of it. Obviously if you guys have any questions, feel free, reach out anytime. I appreciate you so much. Obviously couldn't do anything that I do without you, so thank you. And that's a wrap for today's episode of Not another Mindset show. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you get notified of the next one. Because if you're anything like me, if the episodes aren't popping up for you automatically, you'll keep forgetting to come back to the show even if you really, really enjoyed it. So go ahead and hit that subscribe button and make it super easy for you and of course. If you wanna see more episodes just like this one, I'd love for you to let me know by leaving a review. I know, I know it's super annoying to do, but the few seconds that it takes means the world to me and also ensures that I can keep providing free education and value to you. And just to sweeten the deal, I am going to be picking a random reviewer every single month to receive a free workshop or product from me. If you're looking for more free resources or just wanna connect, hang out, chat a little bit, come find me on Instagram. I'm Coach Casey, Joe over there. That is where I hang out the most in the land of social media. Alright, my friends, that is all I have for you this time. I so appreciate you being here and love to see you prioritizing your growth. I'll see you next time.