What to Do When Clients Feel Uncoachable | EP 110

Have you seen the content lately mapping out "coachable" versus "uncoachable" clients? It's everywhere, and it's getting hundreds of thousands of likes. Dr. Kasey Jo Orvidas breaks down why that label usually has nothing to do with the client, and everything to do with the coach running out of tools.

She covers:

• Why the "uncoachable" label shows up the moment a coach runs out of tools, not the moment a client runs out of potential
• How labeling a client that way changes the way you coach them, whether you realize it or not
• Why self-sabotage isn't a dead end, it's a signal for you as a coach
• One question to ask in your next check-in that can completely shift a stuck client relationship
  
  

If you've ever written off a client as a lost cause (even if don't want to say that outloud), this episode is for you.

Sign up for my FREE masterclass 'Every Client is Coachable — The Science Behind Consistent Client Results'

Episodes Mentioned:

• EP 109: Why clients resist your best advice

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Transcript

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the honest truth is the clients you've been quietly filing away as uncoachable, they're probably not. And I really want you to believe that. Your current tools might not be enough to reach them yet, and your belief needs to be in that place Hello my friends, and welcome back to not another Mindset show. I'm your host, Dr. Casey Joe. My goal with this podcast is to take the science of mindset and behavior change and distill it down into actionable takeaways for you. Together we're gonna unpack research around motivations, self-sabotage, willpower, and so much more, and we're going to take all of that and translate it into strategies you can immediately apply to your health. Fitness, relationships, business, marketing clients, all of the things. But just to be clear, it's not all serious and sciencey around here. We're gonna have a ton of fun too, and I'm so excited to share all of this with you. All right, let's go ahead and get into the episode. Hello, my friends. Welcome back to not another mindset show. I have been having the most annoying technical difficulties with recording this episode. Just like why, camera? You work the same every time. Microphone, you do what you're supposed to do. And today we decided, you know what? We wanna throw some challenges in Casey's way. to See if she can innovate. Ah. Ah. The trials and tribulations of being a podcast host. I also have been, for those of you who watch on YouTube, you see me get, um, quite passionate about some of the things that I'm talking about and I use my hands a lot, and I've kept hitting my microphone when I'm speaking. And get this, I think I've hit it so many times that it actually started to mess with, like, the auxiliary cord that's in it, and it's very fragile now. So… However, this episode is, um, definitely not one that I foresee myself not feeling passionate about. Today we are talking about the idea, the label, the feeling that you have as a coach with some clients that just don't feel coachable And honestly, I don't know if you guys have seen this, but I've been seeing so much content on Instagram lately using this term from coaches in kind of like, um… I think the i- the idea behind this content is that these coaches are trying to be a little bit more, like, spicy with their content, like tell 'em how it is, say how it actually goes. Content seems to per- perform very well based on the pieces that I've seen. Like, we're talking hundreds of thousands of likes type of situation. and it's basically this idea of mapping out, like, the difference between a client that is coachable versus one that is uncoachable, or I've seen non-coachable before. And I do get, like, pretty … Listen, you're never gonna see me playing into, like, the cancel culture, call-out culture type of game on social media, taking someone else's content and stitching it and being like, "This is why the coaching industry sucks is because of you." I'm never … I'm not gonna do that, and that's not necessarily what I'm saying either, because I am a critical thinker and I understand why coaches feel this way, why they're doing this thing, these things. I mean, even when we're just talking about, like, the content game, right? Like, you're just trying to get more eyeballs on your content. Although, obviously, there's an argument in a different direction for a way that you could do that without blaming your clients for things. Anyway, so that's where this episode is coming from, and is also just so happens to be related to an upcoming free masterclass that I'm hosting. This is brand new, never hosted before, brand-new content, frameworks that I'm really, really excited to share. I've spent a lot of time developing this stuff, and honestly testing it on some of my, coaches in the HMCC community, and got good feedback from them. So this is a masterclass. We have… Uh, shoot, now I'm gonna, now I'm gonna forget. Casey, take notes on this stuff before you just start getting excited and telling everybody. we have a few different options for when you can attend the masterclass, AKA, I am going to be doing it more than once. So if you can't make it on the specific date and time, there's a couple more options for ya, for you to be able to come. So man, we've had a hard time over the years … Ooh, it's so cool that I get to speak to you if you are in Australia, if you are in Germany, if you are in Hawaii. It's so cool. Until… One of my favorite things to do is teach live, and to actually get to interact with you, and be there with you live, and talk about your client concerns, and your coaching strategies, and workshop and work through those things with you. But w- when everyone lives all over the world, it is impossible to find a time that works for everybody, so we're gonna try something new here and have multiple options for you to come, so hopefully one of them works for you. Make sure you check out… There will be a link in the show notes of this episode to learn more. But anyway, I'm not here to just, like, say, "Hey, thanks for being here. Go sign up for this free masterclass." But there is actually some stuff we need to talk about, uh, potentially before you even attend this masterclass. There's kind of like a… It's, like, prerequisite belief building that we have to do, and just general understanding about client self-sabotage and coachability. Is this client coachable, not coachable? What does that mean for you, for me, for them? So you've got a client who seems to want results. I I mean, why else would they hire you, right? And they may even be, like, saying all of the right things in their check-ins. They're seemingly really motivated. They're excited, and then they don't follow through, and then they don't do the thing that they said that they were like,"110% I can do that, Coach." And often, this doesn't just happen one time, right? And then you go give them a pep talk, and they move on, and everything's great, no more issues after that. It really is often, like, a week after week, like, you're adjusting the plan. You've had more conversations. You've had some more stern, tough love conversations. You've tried everything in your coaching toolkit. Like, you're like, "I really don't have any more options here." So you've done everything, therefore logic says it's not you, right? You've pulled out all of the tools in your toolkit. It's gotta be this person. This person just might not be coachable And that makes sense. Like, again, logically, it's like you did everything that you could, so what's left here, right? But the thing I need you to get on board with, honestly, masterclass aside, I know I said, like, there's some stuff that we need to do, like pre- prerequisite material, even for the remainder of this episode, I need you to get on board with the belief that uncoachable, uncoachable, that label, isn't an end-all be-all verdict, and it really is like a diagnosis that you are giving to this person. And in both cases, label, diagnosis, whatever, whatever the way you wanna talk about it… I'm already hitting my microphone. Um, whatever way you wanna talk about it, explain what this is, it's something that you are deciding about them. You, as the coach, are making that decision, right? It is based on the evidence that you have. It's based on some logical foundation here. But it is you, the one who is doing it. And the reality, even by the way that I just explained it, like, if you were nodding along just now, and you're like, "Yep, that sounds about right, Dr. Casey Jo," the reality is, uncoachable, that label happens when you run out of tools, when you run out of things to do and to say with this client Am I right? Or am I right? That's the truth. That's what we're getting at here. So, once you label a client a certain way, because of the tools that you have ran out of, the strategies, the questions, the conversations, the stuff that you've tried, the changes that you've made, you will coach that person according to that uncoachable label, whether you realize it or not. And you can be shouting at me when you're in your car driving right now or walking your dog, listening to me in your headphones. You can yell at me and say, "Casey, I'm not doing anything, though. Just because I see them as uncoachable, it's because of their behaviors and them not sticking to things, and I did my job." Yeah, that, that energy, that feeling of like, "I did everything and I can't do anything else, and it has to do with this person," will show up in your coaching, again, whether you realize it or not. Listen, I don't know you specifically and I don't know your coaching specifically, and I'm not making assumptions over here, but I have been mentoring health and fitness professionals for six years now, many of them, like, very intimately, very hands-on in their coaching, in their business, and this is what I see showing up all of the time. So, if you start to believe that this client is a little bit of a lost cause in your mind, right? You've done all of the things. You've you're on-- you stayed in your lane and did everything possible. They aren't holding up their end of the coaching bargain. What is there left for you to do? You're not gonna keep trying harder if you see them as a lost cause. What's the point of checking in on them anymore, the extra check-ins that you've been doing, if it's not working? It's like fruitless labor. Nobody wants to do that, right? So, that's what I mean about, like, whether you realize it or not, you may start to, like, pull back a little bit on how you're coaching them or get shorter in your responses or save their check-in for the last one of the day, because you know it's just gonna be the same thing again. But then now you're depleted from your, like, mental resources, 'cause you had a full day of coaching other clients. You're getting to this last person. You're already frustrated. You might be, like, resenting it before you even click on their name. Tell me that's not showing up in your coaching at all when you're feeling that way I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I'm probably right, but I could be wrong. So if, if you're with me and you're willing to see this a different way, stay with me. By the end of this episode, my goal, this prerequisite material, right, is that not only your mindset and your perspective, your belief around this stuff related to uncoachable clients and client self-sabotage will shift, but really, really, really, really what I want you to feel is that you have so much more control and so much more power as the coach than you are giving yourself credit for There are so many other tools and strategies that you could be using. It's just right now you feel like you've exhausted all of your resources. And let me tell you something that might not feel super comfortable, but the easiest thing to do, the most comfortable thing for you, is to believe that that client is uncoachable, that it is just some clients, it will just go that way. Because then you don't have to hold the burden, the responsibility of that client's results Yeah. I'll let that one sit for a second. So, So, okay, let's, let's get into it. I've kind of like… Listen, some coaches would already be clicking off this episode right now, so if you're still here, thank you. Let's get into it. So, something that is likely coming up for you, as I've even talked about everything I've said so far, is the idea of self-sabotage. Clients who get in their own way. They are signing up to work with you, they've got the plan, they're motivated, they want to change, uh, but then they are the ones who are not following through because X, Y, Z thing happened this week, it was stressful, blah, blah, blah. They know what to do, but they still don't do it, and that's on them, right?'Cause yeah, absolutely you can't go and hand them the dumbbells. You can't grocery shop for them and get the ground beef into the pan for meal prep. Can you tell what I have to meal prep later? So, you see this common pattern, right? The client is motivated at the start, they're engaged in their check-ins, they're checking the boxes, they're so excited, but eventually they start to fall off a little bit here and there, then suddenly they're having, like, totally off weeks. They start to slow down. And as the coach, you know they have it in them. You saw it at the start. You know it's there. Where did it go, right? So, you try harder. You make changes to the plan, you try to simplify things, make it easier for them, reduce the number of things that they have to do, that they have to follow in the first place. None of that is inherently wrong, and sometimes that can work, right? Maybe they just were doing too much, and now that they have less that they have to focus on, they're building some momentum and they're back on track. That's, that's, that's a possibility. But when you are simplifying everything they need to do, you're changing the plan, you're adding even more accountability, you're giving more of yourself and your time to this person, and they still continue in this pattern of just like, ah, why is nothing working? Why do we keep hitting this wall?" What's happening here? It's the client. They're self-sabotaging, right? This is on them. You gave them everything If this pattern continues to persist and they continue to give you excuses, or telling you reasons why things didn't go the way that they were supposed to and what came up in their lives. But no matter what change you make based on exactly what they're sharing, like you said, this is getting in the way. You said that this was too hard, so let's change this stuff, and now you, now you still can't do it? I'm confused, right? Soon they start to look a lot like what an uncoachable client would look like, right? But just like with the idea of an uncoachable label that you slap on a client and how that can show up in your coaching and just, like, how you're feeling in your coaching, labeling the client with self-sabotage as their issue, like you are doing this to yourself, that's like a character attribution, something about them as a person. And the problem is actually just located inside the client. It's their discipline. It's their willpower. They don't actually care about this stuff. They don't actually want this. Their level of commitment just isn't there. They're just not ready for coaching, and that has to do with something inside of them. But if it's inside of them, then the problem feels quite unsolvable from the outside. And who's on the outside? You. You. You're the coach on the outside. How are you supposed to resolve something that's going on inside of them? But this is important, so if you're doing something else, come back here. If you're meal prepping your ground beef, come back here. Listen to me. Self-sabotaging behaviors, they are not a verdict. It's not the end. It's not a dead end for this client. It's a signal for you to pay attention to. It's information for you as the coach, and it's information that you can work with. It's not a dead stop, they're doing this to themselves, it's on the inside of themselves, and I'm on the outside, and there's no more I can do about it So that signal, that self-sabotage signal, when you're seeing this stuff show up, it is a signal that something else is going on beneath the surface. That's what it is. And yes, it is your job to figure out what is going on beneath the surface. Unless you just wanna be a surface level coach and just deliver plans and programs and tell people what to do, and don't care to coach at a deeper level, then by all means, you should probably just never listen to another one of my podcast episodes if we're being totally honest, because that's not the game that we play over here. We play the game of, this client is self-sabotaging, they're getting in their own way, so let me in there. I can't wait to figure out what's going on on the inside so I can really help this person. That's the game that we play here. So with that said, we're talking about labeling clients as, as uncoachable, or just, I guess, self-sabotage being behaviors that lead to uncoachable clients, right? There's so much we can get into on this, and so much more we will get into this on this episode, but I do wanna remind you that masterclass that I'm hosting, it is quite literally about all of this. So I can't give it all away here, obviously. You gotta come and hang out with me live. I'm literally gonna force you so I don't have to sit in my office alone and talk to you here. I want to talk to you directly. and I wanna have a conversation with you. So please check out the link in the show notes for that masterclass. If you work with clients to change their behavior in any capacity, whether you are a coach, a dietician, you're a physical therapist, anything, please come. It is literally for you, and it's a lot of content I've never shared before, and I'm really excited to share it. Okay, so, so far we've determined that the labels we use with clients, those obviously make a difference in our coaching, and therefore, the results that our clients see. And I mean, to be fair, the labels that our clients assign to themselves also matter. So if they're coming to you and saying, like, "Maybe I'm just not coachable- Then that's the same thing. Or, "I just al- I always self-sabotage. This is always what I do." They're deciding the traits that they have and who they are, and that's something you should work with on them with, rather than just letting them believe that, 'cause those are… It's, such, like, fixed mindset territory. Like, "This is just who I am. This is just the way it has to be." I actually… It, it's reminding me, I did an episode a while ago about emotional eating research, and found some really cool findings related to how people who label themselves as an emotional eater are far more likely to emotional eat than people who do not label themselves that way. Like, they're like, "Ah, I don't see myself as an emotional eater. That's not me." So, I mean, we could, you know, go chicken or the egg type situation, but this research was, was pretty powerful. And, I don't know, to me it's just like, you might be like, "Duh, Casey, get off the topic." Like, this is common sense. Like, if I don't think I'm a morning person, and that's what I'm telling myself and telling other people, what are the chances that when an alarm

goes off at 5: 20:51

00 in the morning and I try to, like, get something done early one day, then I'm suddenly like, "Wow, who knew I was such a morning person? I feel great"? No, it's like self-fulfilling prophecy type of stuff, right? Okay, so you've tried everything with these clients. What the heck are you supposed to do? The plan changes, the pep talks, the additional accountability that you're adding. You are trying. You're trying, and I'm not saying that you're not trying, okay? Please don't let… Don't spin my words in that direction, because the problem is not the effort that you're putting in, all the extra time that you're putting in. It's the lens that you're taking to see this stuff through, because that lens will shift what you end up doing. They have nothing to do with changing the plan. They probably don't need another motivational pep talk. They probably don't need you to check in with them every Tuesday as an extra, like, "Hey" text message." How are things going so far this week?" When your only tool is to change the plan or to give more of yourself to this client, those are your only tools, you're going to run out of steam really fast. This is a fast track to burnout, and I know a lot of you feel this. I know you do. What coaches aren't trained on is the why underneath these behaviors. You're taught how to coach, like what, like what to coach. You're taught so much of the what, but you're not taught how to actually do this and to understand the why behind, or why clients do what they do or don't do what they say they're going to do. Like, you don't get that part. So instead, it just feels like, "I'm gonna try harder and do more and give more of myself and make more changes, and something's gotta stick." But then when it doesn't, you're frustrated, the client's frustrated, and you're like,"Should I even be a coach anymore?" Like, this is so fricking frustrating. And I get it, I get it, I get it. I've been there. And I've worked with so many, so many coaches, like, well over 1,000 coaches on this stuff, okay? I need you to know that I hear you. But you don't get trained on the type of motivation that's driving their goal, which can play a huge fricking role in their ability to follow through on something. You don't get trained on the basic psychological needs that people have in order to stay motivated to do something. And if those needs are unmet, it makes a whole lot of sense to me as someone who's, like… I hate calling myself an expert, but like I'm, uh, I have a pretty strong expertise in all of this stuff at this point. to me, I'm like, if that need's not being met, then like, uh, no shit they're not sticking to the plan. But you aren't trained on those things, so just pushing harder, just doing more is going to run you into the ground. It's going to make you question your work as a coach And there's such a better way, guys. There's such a better way. It can feel so much better than this. So when those things are off, when I'm talking about, like, different types of motivation or psychological needs, no version of planned fixes are going to help. No amount of hand-holding or extra check-ins are going to help When we say someone is uncoachable, that implies that there's a fixed trait, that this person cannot be coached But is it really that they're uncoachable, or is it that we're missing a really crucial piece of what's going on inside of them and making the assumption that that's not something we are capable of supporting them with as the coach? So what's actually happening in most cases is that this uncoachable situation is not a trait at all. It has nothing to do with, like, the character traits of this person. That it's actually something more like a state, like we're talking state versus trait type situation And honestly, like, if you hear anything in this entire episode, I want it to be that, that someone's state is coachable, but th- traits, something about them, who they are, that feels like a dead end. That does feel like something that you're definitely just, like, not qualified to work with. Like, maybe they do need to go see a therapist, right? or it's just something about who they are in their nature that can't be changed, period, end of story. That's how it starts to feel, which, big surprise, growth versus fixed mindset is showing up here. And a coachable client, that feels like very growth mindset oriented. Like, this person, I can work with this person. Uncoachable client, I can't work with this person. Growth versus fixed mindset. My challenge to you would be to see every client as coachable. Remove uncoachable from your vocabulary, because that immediately starts to shift you into a growth mindset about your coaching and your capabilities and how you can help people. And even just doing that is going to make a difference, I promise. Just try. Give it, like, a week. Try to continue to reroute those uncoachable thoughts into, " I can help this person. There's something here that I can work with. I just don't see it yet." Very growth mindset oriented. So being… God, I could really just keep going on this, but I, to be so, so freaking for real with you right now, if you're a coach who s- like, claims to support clients with their mindset, to help them develop a growth mindset and self-belief But you hold the belief that some clients just can't be coached? then your own mindset might need some work here before you should be confidently helping other people with their mindset and their self-belief if you don't believe in yourself to be able to coach every client I don't know, it's just a thought. Okay, here's the reframe I have for you. Try to hold this in your next client situation where you feel the itch to maybe label them as uncoachable or start to think that there's just nothing you can do about it with them, or you're just leaving the responsibility on them because they're self-sabotaging and there's not much you can do because that's an inside, that's an inside job and you're on the outside. Instead of, "Why won't this client follow through? Why won't they do the work?" Get curious about what type of motivation is actually driving their goal. Talked a lot about different types of motivation on the podcast before, so if you wanna dive into that more, you absolutely can. Or, again, you can just come. Just come, come hang out with me in the new masterclass that I'm hosting, 'cause we are gonna get into that there, too. So, the type of motivation that your clients are operating from, from, is always going to outweigh the amount of motivation. Like, we're always trying to get more motivated, when the reality is, we should be looking at the type of motivation, that is at play, ' cause that makes the biggest difference. Is this client working towards something that they actually want? So is that motivation coming from an autonomous place or a self-determined place? Or is this just something that they feel like they should want, or that someone else is telling them that they should do? That's a more controlled, kind of more external type of motivation. You can watch for language when they say things like, "I just should do this," or, "I have to do this," because that could be an indicator that their motivation is coming from a place that is feeling more controlled. And if a client is operating from a place of controlled motivation, more accountability, more plan tweaking, that's not going to create follow-through,'cause we're missing what's actually going on underneath the surface. You're treating the symptom of their lack of follow-through, their lack of consistency, by changing the plan. That's the symptom of something else that's going on beneath the surface that you're missing. You're not treating the real underlying root cause, which very well could be the type of motivation that they're operating from So one question you can kind of think about to use this week maybe in your client check-ins is to ask, when you think about the goal that you're working towards, is this something that you genuinely want for yourself or is it something you feel like you're supposed to want? That one question, my friends It's a good one. It's a juicy one. That can open up an entirely different conversation. And for those of you non-believers out there who are still a little bit skeptical about everything that I'm saying, try that question. See what happens, and then see how much then you have to work with as a coach, what comes up after that. You may not feel like you have the tools exactly to do anything with that, but come to the masterclass. Of course, enroll in the Health Mindset Coaching Certification for goodness sake, because that's where all those tools are. But this would be a good test, a good experiment, if you will, to just sh- show yourself, prove to yourself that if you try to uncover this underlying stuff, that so much more comes up. And you will probably quickly see that like, "Huh, yeah, based on everything that you just shared with me, I can understand why me just pep talking you into this and changing your plan wasn't working." Okay, I don't have time right now. I feel like I've already been, uh, yapping and a little bit too tan- tangential already here. I don't have time how to get into, like, how do you shift someone's motivation type or how do you assess which of these motivational, basic psychological needs that I was talking about, which one is being unmet that you can then address in order to support client follow-through? Gosh, that's a, is, that's a lot. But we are getting into that. How many times can I talk about the masterclass? Can you tell that I'm excited about the masterclass? We do address a lot of that in the masterclass, so please come. Okay. There is so much more we can get into here, but really, I just want this episode to be not a slew of strategies for you to try to support clients, to help them follow through, but because the single most important thing that comes before any of that, before the tools, the tricks, the hacks, the strategies, is your belief in yourself and your belief in your clients, your belief that every client is coachable It's your willingness to see self-sabotage in uncoachable clients as something that you actually do have the power to support. Like, please believe that you do. I know that you do It's your willingness to understand that that these are the clients that need you the most. They're the ones that will have the biggest and best transformations if you can help them through these things. They're the ones who are going to refer all of their friends to you And it's not the easy ones who automatically just, like, listen to you and follow the plan and do what you say that creates fulfilling work. It's these ones. It's these clients. They're the ones who will really just stoke that fire, that flame, your love for coaching. It's these clients. Because, my friends, the honest truth is the clients you've been quietly filing away as uncoachable, they're probably not. And I really want you to believe that. That is, again, the most important part of all of this. It's just that your current tools might not be enough to reach them yet, and your belief needs to be in that place too. So if you're one of those coaches who honestly just, like, really give a shit, you wanna get better, you wanna see the best results for your clients, you care so much about these clients, you see so much in them, and you want to get them to that transformation that you know they deserve, if you're one of those coaches, you are one of my people, and I better see you at the masterclass. But I appreciate you being here. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you next time. And that's a wrap for today's episode of Not another Mindset show. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you get notified of the next one. Because if you're anything like me, if the episodes aren't popping up for you automatically, you'll keep forgetting to come back to the show even if you really, really enjoyed it. So go ahead and hit that subscribe button and make it super easy for you and of course. If you wanna see more episodes just like this one, I'd love for you to let me know by leaving a review. I know, I know it's super annoying to do, but the few seconds that it takes means the world to me and also ensures that I can keep providing free education and value to you. And just to sweeten the deal, I am going to be picking a random reviewer every single month to receive a free workshop or product from me. If you're looking for more free resources or just wanna connect, hang out, chat a little bit, come find me on Instagram. I'm Coach Casey, Joe over there. That is where I hang out the most in the land of social media. Alright, my friends, that is all I have for you this time. I so appreciate you being here and love to see you prioritizing your growth. I'll see you next time.